FIRE with Unsupportive Spouse/Family

[YBFree]

Wondering if anyone else has a spouse or in-laws who aren't supportive of their FIRE lifestyle/aspirations?  I've been FIRED for about a year, but have been consulting/contracting here and there as opportunities present themselves.

My husband is still working (his dream job), but could FIRE if he wanted.  We are young (35), but have enough investment/real estate income to sustain a comfortable modest lifestyle without working for anyone else.  When my high-paying corporate torture job ended last year, my husband seemed on board with my vision to build/manage our real estate portfolio and not return to corporate America.  I've continued paying ~60% of our household expenses (mortgage, utilities, etc) while he covers the remaining 40% and basically all of our fun stuff like dinners out, travel, etc.   We have no plans for kids.

In the last few months, my husband and his family have made remarks hinting about me wasting my life.  It seems like they want me to go back to work even though I don't NEED to and we're doing fine financially.  My MIL in particular doesn't understand why I'd drop out of the work force so "early" and give up such a high income. 

To complicate matters further, last week, an amazing job opportunity was offered to me.  Six figures, work sounds really cool, the work environment is pretty laid-back/casual BUT they want me full-time/ butt in a chair 5 days a week.  I know he wants me to take this job.  I know that I will eventually be miserable going back to a M-F type of gig again.  I'm still in the negotiation phase and a thinking of offering to take less money for more flexibility - in office 3 days, work remote 2 days.  My gut says that I should pass if they can't give me some flexibility.

I feel guilty/unsure though, because the $125k salary could give us a HUGE leg up on further investments.  We'd be saving 100% of my salary and applying it to additional wealth generation.  Also, this is the first FT job in almost a year that looks remotely appealing, so I'm hesitant to pass it up for that reason as well.

Has anyone else faced this dilemma?  If yes, how did you navigate it?  Any advice would be much appreciated.

[hunniebun]

It seems like a pretty good place to be in, because the decision is really up to you.  I would likely ask for the flexibility or remote work, because from where I sit (which is at a desk, 5 days a week) there is no way I would be here every day if I didn't have to financially - and I really like my job and coworkers.  Tell them what you want and if they are willing to be accommodating, then give it a shot.  The great news is that you can always leave if it isn't working out.  This might be the experience you need to know 100% for sure that you are done with corporate America.  Talk it over with your dh (your in-laws don't get a vote IMO!!) and I am sure the direction will become clear.  Good luck!

[YBFree]

It seems like a pretty good place to be in, because the decision is really up to you.  I would likely ask for the flexibility or remote work, because from where I sit (which is at a desk, 5 days a week) there is no way I would be here every day if I didn't have to financially - and I really like my job and coworkers.  Tell them what you want and if they are willing to be accommodating, then give it a shot.  The great news is that you can always leave if it isn't working out.  This might be the experience you need to know 100% for sure that you are done with corporate America.  Talk it over with your dh (your in-laws don't get a vote IMO!!) and I am sure the direction will become clear.  Good luck!

Thanks for the input hunniebun, I think this is great advice.  I will push hard for a remote/flexible option and let you know how it works out.  I know in-laws shouldn't get a vote, but their disapproval is sooo hard for me as I love and respect them dearly too.  But, they won't be the ones sitting in that chair each day, dying a slow death by cubicle ;)

[onlykelsey]

I'm not sure what field you're in, but I might consider this opportunity (or any other opportunity) as a way to keep your skills and resume current.  I'm 29 and am amazed at how screwed my early 30s friends are if they stepped off the beaten lawyer path and want to come back. 

It may not be relevant to you or your market or job, but just a thought.  I'd love to eventually find a "project only" sort of job eventually, not just so I can earn money (I hope to be set by the time I FIRE) but so I can remain relevant and up-to-date and employable.

[YBFree]

I'm not sure what field you're in, but I might consider this opportunity (or any other opportunity) as a way to keep your skills and resume current.  I'm 29 and am amazed at how screwed my early 30s friends are if they stepped off the beaten lawyer path and want to come back. 

It may not be relevant to you or your market or job, but just a thought.  I'd love to eventually find a "project only" sort of job eventually, not just so I can earn money (I hope to be set by the time I FIRE) but so I can remain relevant and up-to-date and employable.

Good point onlykelsey,  keeping my skills current/resume gap could become an issue...and this would be a great way to avoid that.  The job also is an opportunity to pick up some skills that I know will be valuable in future consulting/contract pitches.  Food for thought.

[onlykelsey]

I'm not sure what field you're in, but I might consider this opportunity (or any other opportunity) as a way to keep your skills and resume current.  I'm 29 and am amazed at how screwed my early 30s friends are if they stepped off the beaten lawyer path and want to come back. 

It may not be relevant to you or your market or job, but just a thought.  I'd love to eventually find a "project only" sort of job eventually, not just so I can earn money (I hope to be set by the time I FIRE) but so I can remain relevant and up-to-date and employable.

Good point onlykelsey,  keeping my skills current/resume gap could become an issue...and this would be a great way to avoid that.  The job also is an opportunity to pick up some skills that I know will be valuable in future consulting/contract pitches.  Food for thought.

Also, cynically, I think this is a bigger problem for women over 30 or 35 than men.  You don't mention whether you're male or female, but it's a (bullshit) thing to keep in mind as well.  It's one of the reasons I want to be FIREd or capable of it by 35.

[YBFree]

That's interesting...in my field I think both men and women get heavy side-eye if they take non-traditional/non-linear career paths.  I think people are suspicious of anyone who isn't doing things the usual or expected way.  I'm female, btw :)

[Mr. Green]

I'd be wondering why DH seems like he's done a reversal on wanting you to work. Maybe it's time for another chat. It sounds like you already know what you want, and that's to not take the job. If you're FIRE already, what's the point of more wealth generation? Would you increase your spending or increase charitable contributions? I can't imagine staying motivated to do a job if the money is doing nothing for you and you'd rather be free. I'd also be concerned about doing something out of guilt that goes against what you really want. That sounds like a slippery slope to unhappiness.

[MandyM]

I think that regardless of whether you take the job or not, you need to have a conversation with your husband about things in general. Hinting to you about how he thinks you should spend your time is a bit to passive aggressive for my taste. I'm not saying you have to be in complete harmony, but he should at least be up front about it.

[Parizade]

You haven't really mentioned how you feel about your current situation, your "vision to build/manage our real estate portfolio and not return to corporate America." Have you been working toward your vision? Or have you settled into a stagnant routine that has your family concerned for you? Do you enjoy what you are doing, or have you become bored and restless?

If you are actively building your real estate portfolio and enjoying that then let your family know you ARE employed at YOUR dream job and that you are generating an adequate income. If you are bored or unhappy then figure out what you need to do to jumpstart your passion.

[dude]

My spouse was initially VERY skeptical about my FIRE plans -- I will cut the cord 5-7 years before her -- but has come around some.  She still won't sit down with me to see the numbers, but she trusts at this point (based on my money management to date) that I know what I'm talking about.  But she has voiced concerns about me getting out of dodge -- without her, obviously -- at the drop of a hat for extended periods once I am retired. I know for sure she would go bananas if I were to say, hustle off to Costa Rica without her for a month to go surfing.  I THINK I'll be able to restrain myself to some degree from doing that sort of thing, but if I'm being completely honest, then man, I know it might eat at me pretty hard to not be able to do what I really want to do.  I hope to mitigate this all by perhaps working it out so that when we go on vacation (which we do regularly, 4-5 times/year), I might be able to send her home at the end of the week, and stay an additional week in our vacation location.  We'll see.  At any rate, that's a long way of saying that we don't see exactly eye-to-eye on FIRE plans, but I think we're generally okay, provided I don't push the boundaries too hard.

As to going back to the grind, that's just not gonna happen for me, and she knows me well enough to know that.  But I'll be 53 when I retire.  You are 35, and you've just enjoyed a year of ER.  Would it be a big sacrifice to go back to work -- at what sounds like a not too burdensome opportunity -- for a year to stash another $70K (after taxes)?  Only you can answer that.

And I get how you're feeling about the S.O.'s subtly pushing you back to work.  In the early part of my career, my S.O. frequently let slip that she thought I was wasting my Top 10-15 law degree on my government job, when I could be making the big bucks in a large firm.  It used to piss me off to no end, and caused more than a few heated exchanges.  But over time, she relented and came to understand the reasons for my choice, and things have turned out fine (my choice has been validated over the long-run).  Perhaps if you decide remaining outside the corporate world is the right choice, your choice too will be vindicated.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you, whichever you choose.

[YBFree]

I think that regardless of whether you take the job or not, you need to have a conversation with your husband about things in general. Hinting to you about how he thinks you should spend your time is a bit to passive aggressive for my taste. I'm not saying you have to be in complete harmony, but he should at least be up front about it.

I've pondered this. I think there is a bit of resentment, because even though he loves his job, it's still a JOB. He sees me waking up when I want, volunteering, and generally loving life and I think there is a bit of jealousy there.  He's also hinted that we'd be able to afford a better home, etc, if I went back to work.  So, I think when I was miserable in corporate America, he was on board with the change...but now that he sees me flying free, while he's still working, there is a bit of resentment? 

[YBFree]

I think that regardless of whether you take the job or not, you need to have a conversation with your husband about things in general. Hinting to you about how he thinks you should spend your time is a bit to passive aggressive for my taste. I'm not saying you have to be in complete harmony, but he should at least be up front about it.

Very true.  We revisited the topic this afternoon and I think seeing his friends buying big houses and fancy cars has made him start to miss my salary.  We can live comfortably on what we have but won't move forward as much in terms of acquiring "things"

[YBFree]

You haven't really mentioned how you feel about your current situation, your "vision to build/manage our real estate portfolio and not return to corporate America." Have you been working toward your vision? Or have you settled into a stagnant routine that has your family concerned for you? Do you enjoy what you are doing, or have you become bored and restless?

If you are actively building your real estate portfolio and enjoying that then let your family know you ARE employed at YOUR dream job and that you are generating an adequate income. If you are bored or unhappy then figure out what you need to do to jumpstart your passion.

That's a great idea to start referring to managing the rental properties/investments as my job.  Maybe CFO of our wealth portfolio?

But, to give more detail - yes, I've been living the vision.  I've been managing our rental properties since I FIRE'd and am in the process of acquiring at least one more in the next few months.  I've loved every minute of it, though I did start to feel a bit restless at about 9 mos, so I started volunteering 2 days a week with a local non-profit.   As happy as i am right now, I'm not sure that this current state is enough to fulfill me for the next 40-50 years...still working on figuring that out.

[YBFree]

My spouse was initially VERY skeptical about my FIRE plans -- I will cut the cord 5-7 years before her -- but has come around some.  She still won't sit down with me to see the numbers, but she trusts at this point (based on my money management to date) that I know what I'm talking about.  But she has voiced concerns about me getting out of dodge -- without her, obviously -- at the drop of a hat for extended periods once I am retired. I know for sure she would go bananas if I were to say, hustle off to Costa Rica without her for a month to go surfing.  I THINK I'll be able to restrain myself to some degree from doing that sort of thing, but if I'm being completely honest, then man, I know it might eat at me pretty hard to not be able to do what I really want to do.  I hope to mitigate this all by perhaps working it out so that when we go on vacation (which we do regularly, 4-5 times/year), I might be able to send her home at the end of the week, and stay an additional week in our vacation location.  We'll see.  At any rate, that's a long way of saying that we don't see exactly eye-to-eye on FIRE plans, but I think we're generally okay, provided I don't push the boundaries too hard.

As to going back to the grind, that's just not gonna happen for me, and she knows me well enough to know that.  But I'll be 53 when I retire.  You are 35, and you've just enjoyed a year of ER.  Would it be a big sacrifice to go back to work -- at what sounds like a not too burdensome opportunity -- for a year to stash another $70K (after taxes)?  Only you can answer that.

And I get how you're feeling about the S.O.'s subtly pushing you back to work.  In the early part of my career, my S.O. frequently let slip that she thought I was wasting my Top 10-15 law degree on my government job, when I could be making the big bucks in a large firm.  It used to piss me off to no end, and caused more than a few heated exchanges.  But over time, she relented and came to understand the reasons for my choice, and things have turned out fine (my choice has been validated over the long-run).  Perhaps if you decide remaining outside the corporate world is the right choice, your choice too will be vindicated.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you, whichever you choose.

@dude - thanks for sharing your own process with your spouse.  It gives me hope that we'll eventually get back on the same page and/or my choice will continue to be vindicated.  If I can get them to give me some flexibility in the role, it is likely worth working another year or two to stash that additional cash.  That will elevate the quality of life we're able to have FIRE'd.  I'll keep you all posted on where things end up!  Thanks for the good luck wishes, much appreciated.  Hope things continue to flow smoothly for you two on the journey to FIRE too.

[Parizade]

We revisited the topic this afternoon and I think seeing his friends buying big houses and fancy cars has made him start to miss my salary.  We can live comfortably on what we have but won't move forward as much in terms of acquiring "things"

aha, that explains a lot! Then I would ask if you or your husband are really willing to trade your freedom for "things"

But, to give more detail - yes, I've been living the vision.  I've been managing our rental properties since I FIRE'd and am in the process of acquiring at least one more in the next few months.  I've loved every minute of it, though I did start to feel a bit restless at about 9 mos, so I started volunteering 2 days a week with a local non-profit.   As happy as i am right now, I'm not sure that this current state is enough to fulfill me for the next 40-50 years...still working on figuring that out.

It sounds to me like you are doing very well, I hope you can work through this with your husband.

[Mr. Green]

We revisited the topic this afternoon and I think seeing his friends buying big houses and fancy cars has made him start to miss my salary.  We can live comfortably on what we have but won't move forward as much in terms of acquiring "things"

aha, that explains a lot! Then I would ask if you or your husband are really willing to trade your freedom for "things"

My fear here would be that flashy things like expensive cars and expensive houses typically don't get paid for with a year or two of work. An expensive car and bigger house later, your work commitment has turned into a 5 or 10 year sentence to pay for them. Hopefully you guys figure out a happy medium where both are happy. Good luck!

[YBFree]

We revisited the topic this afternoon and I think seeing his friends buying big houses and fancy cars has made him start to miss my salary.  We can live comfortably on what we have but won't move forward as much in terms of acquiring "things"

aha, that explains a lot! Then I would ask if you or your husband are really willing to trade your freedom for "things"

My fear here would be that flashy things like expensive cars and expensive houses typically don't get paid for with a year or two of work. An expensive car and bigger house later, your work commitment has turned into a 5 or 10 year sentence to pay for them. Hopefully you guys figure out a happy medium where both are happy. Good luck!

Wow.  Another very good point.  It would take several years of saving my salary to upgrade to the kind of house his friends are buying (without tapping existing savings).  I think we both agree that our current home isn't a forever home - we moved into one of our rental properties when we decided that I would FIRE, but while I'd prob save for 3-4 years and watch carefully for a deal on a nicer place to buy cash or close to all cash, he's ok having a mortgage if the rate is low enough.  That's something we'll need to figure out, I guess.

[Villanelle]

I would approach this from the standpoint of coming up with a master FIRE plan for both of you, which hopefully you can both compromise on and agree to.

As a spouse, I do think it would be rough for me if my partner stopped working and I felt that mean I had to work longer.  I don't think one person's FIRE vision and number is more important or valuable.  If my spouse was comfortable retiring with $700k and I felt we needed $1.5 at least, if he left the workforce, that would mean more time I had to work.  For me and in my relationship, that's not really how the partnership works.  I know that opinion has been unpopular here in the past, but it's the way I see things.  When one person quitting means the other works longer (even if it is just to meet his own higher FIRE goals), that doesn't seem especially fair, and it seems like something that warrants compromise on both sides.

So I'd want to sit down and come up with a plan.  Maybe we meet somewhere in the middle at $1m, with me agreeing to work until we got that number to $900k or the day of my 40th birthday.  That seems like everyone is giving a bit.  He's agreeing to a lower COL in FIRE and to give up on that fancy new house but to go to one that is maybe 10% more than what you have now, and I'm agreeing to work maybe another 4.5 years, but still retire before 40. 

[YBFree]

I would approach this from the standpoint of coming up with a master FIRE plan for both of you, which hopefully you can both compromise on and agree to.

As a spouse, I do think it would be rough for me if my partner stopped working and I felt that mean I had to work longer.  I don't think one person's FIRE vision and number is more important or valuable.  If my spouse was comfortable retiring with $700k and I felt we needed $1.5 at least, if he left the workforce, that would mean more time I had to work.  For me and in my relationship, that's not really how the partnership works.  I know that opinion has been unpopular here in the past, but it's the way I see things.  When one person quitting means the other works longer (even if it is just to meet his own higher FIRE goals), that doesn't seem especially fair, and it seems like something that warrants compromise on both sides.

So I'd want to sit down and come up with a plan.  Maybe we meet somewhere in the middle at $1m, with me agreeing to work until we got that number to $900k or the day of my 40th birthday.  That seems like everyone is giving a bit.  He's agreeing to a lower COL in FIRE and to give up on that fancy new house but to go to one that is maybe 10% more than what you have now, and I'm agreeing to work maybe another 4.5 years, but still retire before 40.

I hear you...it is important to figure out a FIRE strategy that is fair to both partners.  That said, he could FIRE now too, he just really loves his job and will prob work until 60 by choice. But to your point, it is possible that he feels we need a bigger nest egg or more comfortable nest before he would feel fully comfortable leaving the workforce - he's never expressed that, but it is totally possible.  Worth further thought as I consider this job offer...

[JoJo]

No chance to go part time on this job opportunity? 

[YBFree]

No chance to go part time on this job opportunity?

I don't think part-time is an option.  They have a big need for the skillset and said they need someone full time.  I think I could be ok with that if I'm not tied to being physically in the office EVERY day.  I've had other roles that allowed me to work from home some days and that made cube life much more bearable for me.  Their CEO is known for not being a big fan of too much remote working, though, so we'll see

[retired?]

It sounds like you are working.....i.e. being productive.  Perhaps you can fill the extra two days with the consulting work rather than volunteering (I'm not against volunteer work, but you hubby and in-laws may view it better).

What has let me feel fine (between my spouse and me) about leaving the high paying job is that I earned much more than I or she ever expected when we first married.  I was entering grad school and might have been a prof.  i.e. she didn't marry me for my $$ earning capability. 

I think "given I chose a stressful occupation and earned the equivalent of a 40 year career at lesser pay, then one can't complain".  "one" being spouse or in-laws, etc.

But, I do feel a little guilty since she has gone back to work (she isn't as confident in our FI as I am) after being away for 12+ years.  My roles have paid about 4x what she earns.  I work one year or she works four.....but, she is the one who isn't fully comfortable with FIRE.

One last note - you are fairly young and probably haven't closed the door on earning big $$ again.  I think you can give yourself a bit of time off to consider things.  You mention something about doing this for the next 40 years.  Don't think of it that way.  You'll change.  The time frame to me is closer to 5 years.  Try something out....if it doesn't work, switch to something else.  I recall reading an article about a guy who closed his business for a year every 6-7 years to have an experience.....seems nice.

[happy]

I 'm only semi-retired, but will be 60 when I retire…even so I am sure I will get the vibe from my folks/family that I should keep working.

I think many of us have deep seated values ( like a work ethic or high status stuff=power or need to keep with the Jones') that only starts to rear its head when challenged. Its one thing to talk about the theory, and another to live out the practice.  I find even though I am committed to downshifting (have been doing it for 20years), at times I feel I should be working more, or am not living up to my station in life, or not making the most of my potential or get momentarily dazzled by high status stuff etc, etc.  And I self-administer the appropriate face-punch and remind myself why I've made the choices I've made.

So I think its OK to vacillate a little, and re-visit and re-examine the decisions you've made.  Definitely check in with hubby and make sure he's OK with your decisions - the in-laws less so.  By all means have a go at the job if you can get some remote access.  What the worst that can happen? - you can just resign.   Just don't be driven into it by guilt.

When I was in my 20s and 30s, I spent a couple of decades living/spending the way society dictated I should…if I'd had more self confidence in my own ideas when I was your age, I'd be  retired by now.  Don't let go of that opportunity too easily.

[Cannot Wait!]

I'm trying to understand...
You left your job because it was soul sucking.  You are living the dream now.
Tell me again why you'd re-enter cubeville?  For 'stuff'????

[dude]

I would approach this from the standpoint of coming up with a master FIRE plan for both of you, which hopefully you can both compromise on and agree to.

As a spouse, I do think it would be rough for me if my partner stopped working and I felt that mean I had to work longer.  I don't think one person's FIRE vision and number is more important or valuable.  If my spouse was comfortable retiring with $700k and I felt we needed $1.5 at least, if he left the workforce, that would mean more time I had to work.  For me and in my relationship, that's not really how the partnership works.  I know that opinion has been unpopular here in the past, but it's the way I see things.  When one person quitting means the other works longer (even if it is just to meet his own higher FIRE goals), that doesn't seem especially fair, and it seems like something that warrants compromise on both sides.

So I'd want to sit down and come up with a plan.  Maybe we meet somewhere in the middle at $1m, with me agreeing to work until we got that number to $900k or the day of my 40th birthday.  That seems like everyone is giving a bit.  He's agreeing to a lower COL in FIRE and to give up on that fancy new house but to go to one that is maybe 10% more than what you have now, and I'm agreeing to work maybe another 4.5 years, but still retire before 40.

See, I can't agree with this.  Take my situation, for example.  I detest my commute, hate it.  And I have that commute as a result of compromising with my spouse on our choice of location regarding where to live.  She gets to ride a subway for 15 minutes each way, I get to sit in a car for about an hour each way.  She genuinely likes her job and the people she works with/for; I don't much care for mine, and I feel like every day I spend in an office is sapping me of my life force.  I am 7 years her senior, and prior to our marriage (16 year courtship)  while I was saving and investing, she spent herself into considerable credit card debt.  She has since righted the ship, and while we are partners, I don't much think it's fair that I work longer than I have to because of her previous free-spending ways.  And indeed, it is my savings and pension that will ensure she has a high standard of living in retirement, as her savings alone would not be sufficient (i.e., I've saved enough to cover her). And finally, she will still get to retire early at around the same age as I will (@53-54, provided she wants to).  So why shouldn't I be able to retire earlier and enjoy what health and vitality I have left?  I earned it.

[onlykelsey]

I would approach this from the standpoint of coming up with a master FIRE plan for both of you, which hopefully you can both compromise on and agree to.

As a spouse, I do think it would be rough for me if my partner stopped working and I felt that mean I had to work longer.  I don't think one person's FIRE vision and number is more important or valuable.  If my spouse was comfortable retiring with $700k and I felt we needed $1.5 at least, if he left the workforce, that would mean more time I had to work.  For me and in my relationship, that's not really how the partnership works.  I know that opinion has been unpopular here in the past, but it's the way I see things.  When one person quitting means the other works longer (even if it is just to meet his own higher FIRE goals), that doesn't seem especially fair, and it seems like something that warrants compromise on both sides.

So I'd want to sit down and come up with a plan.  Maybe we meet somewhere in the middle at $1m, with me agreeing to work until we got that number to $900k or the day of my 40th birthday.  That seems like everyone is giving a bit.  He's agreeing to a lower COL in FIRE and to give up on that fancy new house but to go to one that is maybe 10% more than what you have now, and I'm agreeing to work maybe another 4.5 years, but still retire before 40.

See, I can't agree with this.  Take my situation, for example.  I detest my commute, hate it.  And I have that commute as a result of compromising with my spouse on our choice of location regarding where to live.  She gets to ride a subway for 15 minutes each way, I get to sit in a car for about an hour each way.  She genuinely likes her job and the people she works with/for; I don't much care for mine, and I feel like every day I spend in an office is sapping me of my life force.  I am 7 years her senior, and prior to our marriage (16 year courtship)  while I was saving and investing, she spent herself into considerable credit card debt.  She has since righted the ship, and while we are partners, I don't much think it's fair that I work longer than I have to because of her previous free-spending ways.  And indeed, it is my savings and pension that will ensure she has a high standard of living in retirement, as her savings alone would not be sufficient (i.e., I've saved enough to cover her). And finally, she will still get to retire early at around the same age as I will (@53-54, provided she wants to).  So why shouldn't I be able to retire earlier and enjoy what health and vitality I have left?  I earned it.

I'm not sure which of you I agree with, but I think about this a lot. Husband had pretty much every advantage and spent his 20s overspending, I had fewer advantages and six figures of student loan debt, but owned an apartment and was working my butt of in a 80-hour a week job when we met.  I think I'd be more understanding if the reason he has lots of debt and low earnings is that he is less intelligent, or was disadvantaged, or in an underappreciated profession (say, social work).  But none of those are true.

[2Birds1Stone]

See, I can't agree with this.  Take my situation, for example.  I detest my commute, hate it.  And I have that commute as a result of compromising with my spouse on our choice of location regarding where to live.  She gets to ride a subway for 15 minutes each way, I get to sit in a car for about an hour each way.  She genuinely likes her job and the people she works with/for; I don't much care for mine, and I feel like every day I spend in an office is sapping me of my life force.  I am 7 years her senior, and prior to our marriage (16 year courtship)  while I was saving and investing, she spent herself into considerable credit card debt.  She has since righted the ship, and while we are partners, I don't much think it's fair that I work longer than I have to because of her previous free-spending ways.  And indeed, it is my savings and pension that will ensure she has a high standard of living in retirement, as her savings alone would not be sufficient (i.e., I've saved enough to cover her). And finally, she will still get to retire early at around the same age as I will (@53-54, provided she wants to).  So why shouldn't I be able to retire earlier and enjoy what health and vitality I have left?  I earned it.

I'm 100% with you on this. I know my 'stache will greatly reduce my SO's need to save a huge amount herself. I'm not going to work an extra 5-10 years so my younger SO who made conscious choices regarding career path and income can retire before me.

[Parizade]

The comments on this thread have reminded me of a favorite quote:

[homestead neohio]

I hear you...it is important to figure out a FIRE strategy that is fair to both partners.  That said, he could FIRE now too, he just really loves his job and will prob work until 60 by choice. But to your point, it is possible that he feels we need a bigger nest egg or more comfortable nest before he would feel fully comfortable leaving the workforce - he's never expressed that, but it is totally possible.  Worth further thought as I consider this job offer...

If the above is true, that he really loves his job and would be working it even if he agrees he is FI, then he's not going to be jealous of seeing you do what you want as an early retiree.  If he is jealous seeing you live the dream, then he's not as in love with his job as he reports.

Sounds like your hubby needs to understand hedonic adaptation, that a bigger house or fancier car will not create lasting happiness.  That there is always a bigger house and fancier car to aspire to, and that chasing them robs you of your freedom to choose a different life.  Then he needs to find out what will bring him joy in life and make some changes.   Like either leaving his job to pursue something else he hasn't imagined yet or working his job because it is his choice but also letting go of the fact that you are not working a traditional full time job, because that is your choice. 

I agree there is no harm in you deciding to take on a new full time gig if the benefits out-weigh the costs, but I don't find anything above that suggests this is the case.  You left this kind of FT job, are now happy in your new and flexible life, and you don't need the money.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Wondering if anyone else has a spouse or in-laws who aren't supportive of their FIRE lifestyle/aspirations?  I've been FIRED for about a year, but have been consulting/contracting here and there as opportunities present themselves.

My husband is still working (his dream job), but could FIRE if he wanted.  We are young (35), but have enough investment/real estate income to sustain a comfortable modest lifestyle without working for anyone else.  When my high-paying corporate torture job ended last year, my husband seemed on board with my vision to build/manage our real estate portfolio and not return to corporate America.  I've continued paying ~60% of our household expenses (mortgage, utilities, etc) while he covers the remaining 40% and basically all of our fun stuff like dinners out, travel, etc.   We have no plans for kids.

In the last few months, my husband and his family have made remarks hinting about me wasting my life.  It seems like they want me to go back to work even though I don't NEED to and we're doing fine financially.  My MIL in particular doesn't understand why I'd drop out of the work force so "early" and give up such a high income. 

To complicate matters further, last week, an amazing job opportunity was offered to me.  Six figures, work sounds really cool, the work environment is pretty laid-back/casual BUT they want me full-time/ butt in a chair 5 days a week.  I know he wants me to take this job.  I know that I will eventually be miserable going back to a M-F type of gig again.  I'm still in the negotiation phase and a thinking of offering to take less money for more flexibility - in office 3 days, work remote 2 days.  My gut says that I should pass if they can't give me some flexibility.

I feel guilty/unsure though, because the $125k salary could give us a HUGE leg up on further investments.  We'd be saving 100% of my salary and applying it to additional wealth generation.  Also, this is the first FT job in almost a year that looks remotely appealing, so I'm hesitant to pass it up for that reason as well.

Has anyone else faced this dilemma?  If yes, how did you navigate it?  Any advice would be much appreciated.

This really gets to the heart of what differentiates between an FI that needs RE and just FI.  In our case, we like the FI but not the RE enough to forego the perks of never worrying about money (or figuring out ACA, etc.) and maybe entertaining a little extra lifestyle inflation from time to time, tempered by our sensible LBYM upbringing and that we don't want to spoil the kids or have them become consumerist.  There is plenty of middle ground once you hit FI but still have a little income.  If we lose our jobs or decide we want to leave for whatever reason, we are both OK with that, but in the meantime our work is fulfilling and fits our lifestyle (raising kids).  My wife was SAH with the kids (so there wasn't a 'wasting your life' discussion) but after 10 years she wanted to get back out there and she also wanted a little more lifestyle inflation.  Also in your case, if you are FI, it makes the decision to go back to work or not totally in your court, and you can always leave which puts you in a nice place to advocate on behalf of other workers (a fringe benefit that my wife has enjoyed many times).  At the end of the day, what is the worst your new employer can do if you take the job and it doesn't work out :)  Or just keep living your FIRE dream, as long as you are content with the lifestyle you lead at current spending levels. 

Now if your spouse wants lifestyle inflation and thinks you should work to support this for him, you have a pretty persuasive argument to tell him that his expectations are BS.  If that were me, I would flat out tell him that one big reason why I wouldn't go back to work is just because I don't want to feel like I'm being enslaved!

Good luck!

[Dee18]

Maybe I misunderstood something, but why are you paying 60% of expenses?

[Villanelle]

I would approach this from the standpoint of coming up with a master FIRE plan for both of you, which hopefully you can both compromise on and agree to.

As a spouse, I do think it would be rough for me if my partner stopped working and I felt that mean I had to work longer.  I don't think one person's FIRE vision and number is more important or valuable.  If my spouse was comfortable retiring with $700k and I felt we needed $1.5 at least, if he left the workforce, that would mean more time I had to work.  For me and in my relationship, that's not really how the partnership works.  I know that opinion has been unpopular here in the past, but it's the way I see things.  When one person quitting means the other works longer (even if it is just to meet his own higher FIRE goals), that doesn't seem especially fair, and it seems like something that warrants compromise on both sides.

So I'd want to sit down and come up with a plan.  Maybe we meet somewhere in the middle at $1m, with me agreeing to work until we got that number to $900k or the day of my 40th birthday.  That seems like everyone is giving a bit.  He's agreeing to a lower COL in FIRE and to give up on that fancy new house but to go to one that is maybe 10% more than what you have now, and I'm agreeing to work maybe another 4.5 years, but still retire before 40.

See, I can't agree with this.  Take my situation, for example.  I detest my commute, hate it.  And I have that commute as a result of compromising with my spouse on our choice of location regarding where to live.  She gets to ride a subway for 15 minutes each way, I get to sit in a car for about an hour each way.  She genuinely likes her job and the people she works with/for; I don't much care for mine, and I feel like every day I spend in an office is sapping me of my life force.  I am 7 years her senior, and prior to our marriage (16 year courtship)  while I was saving and investing, she spent herself into considerable credit card debt.  She has since righted the ship, and while we are partners, I don't much think it's fair that I work longer than I have to because of her previous free-spending ways.  And indeed, it is my savings and pension that will ensure she has a high standard of living in retirement, as her savings alone would not be sufficient (i.e., I've saved enough to cover her). And finally, she will still get to retire early at around the same age as I will (@53-54, provided she wants to).  So why shouldn't I be able to retire earlier and enjoy what health and vitality I have left?  I earned it.

Why is there no middle ground?  Quit your job with the 1 hour commute, and find something closer to home and maybe even part time.  Or, if you are ready to fully leave the work force now, agree that you'll work 2 more years at a minimum of $x salary (less than you are making now, giving you the freedom to explore different options and locations, and perhaps part time.)  That's why I mentioned discussion and compromise in my post.

I'll admit that I might be singing a very different tune of DH and I had ever been on a different page financially.  If he'd been wasteful and I had to work many more years because of that, or if he wanted what I consider to be an insane income post-FIRE, it would begin to feel less like a partnership.  Thankfully, I married someone with very similar financial values.  But I still think that in most cases, there is *some* middle ground.   I would never feel truly FIRE'd if my partner still worked (for the money, not the satisfaction or some other reason).  And I'd probably resent a parter who said that his standard for FIRE was non-begotiable and if I didn't like it, I was on my own.  If my number was $1m and his $1.5, I'd be wiling to work another couple years to get to $1.25, especially if we agreed I could leave a job or commute I hated for lower pay or a better commute or better conditions in general.  I don't consider working for 2 years in a job I don't hate as wasted if it contributes to the happiness and security of my partner.  Now if my number was $1m and his was $5m, spanning that gap would be more difficult.

We agree together on what car to purchase or what home to rent/buy, and I look at FIRE in a very similar way--it's in investment, but it just involves investing time in the workforce as well as money.  I might be fine with the 2000 Toyota Echo, but if he wants the 2009 Corolla, I'm not going to dig in my heels simply because to me the Echo is fine.  We'll talk about it and maybe find a 2006 Yaris. Now if he wanted the 2016 Mercedes, compromise to a point that we were both satisfied would be more difficult.  But that goes back to the comment about marrying someone with similar values.

[Mr. Green]

Maybe I misunderstood something, but why are you paying 60% of expenses?

From the OP: "while he covers the remaining 40% and basically all of our fun stuff like dinners out, travel, etc." I'm guessing that brings their total expenses closer to 50/50 when it's all said and done.

[YBFree]

It sounds like you are working.....i.e. being productive.  Perhaps you can fill the extra two days with the consulting work rather than volunteering (I'm not against volunteer work, but you hubby and in-laws may view it better).

What has let me feel fine (between my spouse and me) about leaving the high paying job is that I earned much more than I or she ever expected when we first married.  I was entering grad school and might have been a prof.  i.e. she didn't marry me for my $$ earning capability. 

I think "given I chose a stressful occupation and earned the equivalent of a 40 year career at lesser pay, then one can't complain".  "one" being spouse or in-laws, etc.

But, I do feel a little guilty since she has gone back to work (she isn't as confident in our FI as I am) after being away for 12+ years.  My roles have paid about 4x what she earns.  I work one year or she works four.....but, she is the one who isn't fully comfortable with FIRE.

One last note - you are fairly young and probably haven't closed the door on earning big $$ again.  I think you can give yourself a bit of time off to consider things.  You mention something about doing this for the next 40 years.  Don't think of it that way.  You'll change.  The time frame to me is closer to 5 years.  Try something out....if it doesn't work, switch to something else.  I recall reading an article about a guy who closed his business for a year every 6-7 years to have an experience.....seems nice.

@retire: thank you. I found these words very encouraging...good reminder to not view any decision or state of being as "permanent" - I can always take a job and choose to leave it if it doesn't suit...or take a two year hiatus and then go back (using consulting to bridge the resume gap).  Sigh of relief, thank you!

[YBFree]

I'm trying to understand...
You left your job because it was soul sucking.  You are living the dream now.
Tell me again why you'd re-enter cubeville?  For 'stuff'????

Yeah, kinda.  He likes stuff.  I care a bit less.  We have FI, but a slightly larger nest egg would help us be even more secure...if that makes sense.

[YBFree]

I hear you...it is important to figure out a FIRE strategy that is fair to both partners.  That said, he could FIRE now too, he just really loves his job and will prob work until 60 by choice. But to your point, it is possible that he feels we need a bigger nest egg or more comfortable nest before he would feel fully comfortable leaving the workforce - he's never expressed that, but it is totally possible.  Worth further thought as I consider this job offer...

If the above is true, that he really loves his job and would be working it even if he agrees he is FI, then he's not going to be jealous of seeing you do what you want as an early retiree.  If he is jealous seeing you live the dream, then he's not as in love with his job as he reports.

Sounds like your hubby needs to understand hedonic adaptation, that a bigger house or fancier car will not create lasting happiness.  That there is always a bigger house and fancier car to aspire to, and that chasing them robs you of your freedom to choose a different life.  Then he needs to find out what will bring him joy in life and make some changes.   Like either leaving his job to pursue something else he hasn't imagined yet or working his job because it is his choice but also letting go of the fact that you are not working a traditional full time job, because that is your choice. 

I agree there is no harm in you deciding to take on a new full time gig if the benefits out-weigh the costs, but I don't find anything above that suggests this is the case.  You left this kind of FT job, are now happy in your new and flexible life, and you don't need the money.

Learned a new term: Hedonic Adaptation!  LOL.  I agree that a life focused on acquiring things is not fulfilling, but the reality is that I married someone who likes stuff a bit more than me and that is a bit of a challenge when it comes to aligning on FI goals.  For the most part, we balance each other out and it helps that he is ok with working/saving for the nicer stuff he likes - not one to plunge into credit on a whim.

[ulrichw]

Wondering if anyone else has a spouse or in-laws who aren't supportive of their FIRE lifestyle/aspirations? [...]

To complicate matters further, last week, an amazing job opportunity was offered to me. [...]

Sorry - I'm not quite FIRE yet, though getting close, but thought I'd pipe in w. my 2 cents' worth.

IMO: FIRE is not a lifestyle or an aspiration. FIRE is about having the means to sustain your life path without having to work for a living. Your real life path and aspirations are what you do with your time and where you're guiding yourself independent of how you earn money.

Just like it's not right for those around you to see having a career as giving meaning to your life, it's also not right to religiously use the fact that you're FIRE'd to avoid taking on another job. If you feel like the job would be fun, enriching, etc., why not take it? It's as great a way to spend time as any (as long as you find it rewarding), and has the added advantage of meeting society's standards, so you won't have to feel like you're forced to defend your lifestyle choices. The beauty of being FI is that the moment it turns unpleasant, you get to re-evaluate your choice - there's no financial motive tying you to your job.

By all means, ask for the flexibility to turn it into a better situation for you, but don't use the fact that you're FIRE'd to limit your choices of how to spend your time.

[YBFree]

Maybe I misunderstood something, but why are you paying 60% of expenses?

From the OP: "while he covers the remaining 40% and basically all of our fun stuff like dinners out, travel, etc." I'm guessing that brings their total expenses closer to 50/50 when it's all said and done.

Yes, that's absolutely right.  We end up roughly 50/50 after all is said and done.  If it were up to me we'd just split household expenses 50/50 and then split the fun stuff 50/50, but he prefers this arrangement and I've sort of given up the fight as it does seem to balance out.  Might be worth a whole different thread on how other couples divide expenses when FIRE'd because we have been wrestling with what is "fair" for several months.

[YBFree]

You guys are amazing...so many wise and interesting perspectives - much appreciated.  still learning how to navigate the site and reply to all of the great input...can't figure out how to do that other than quoting each post which is tedious. 

Anyhoo - feels so great to have found a community of like-minded individuals who are financially free or striving to be financially free.  Heard back from HR after speaking with the hiring manager and they say:
"We are okay with you working from home from time to time. THAT BEING SAID.....we are a collaborative organization and being present in the office is a critical part of what we need. The expectation is that working from home will be irregular (a few times a month, not a few times a week) - so as long as we are in agreement there, I think we will both be happy.  Is this along the lines of what you were thinking?  We are not a work from home company, but do understand that there are times when its helpful."

For me, the hoped for answer would have been "as long as you get your work done and are in the office when we need you to be there, we don't care where you work" or at least "you can work from home a day or two a week as needed as long as you are available on site when the team needs you."

So, despite the 125k (which is like half what I was making before), I'm leaning towards passing on this offer.  The tone from leadership feels a bit too rigid for my taste.  If others feel like I'm reading too much into the response, let me know.  They want a decision by Friday and hope that I can start Monday or the following Monday. Side eye.

[ulrichw]

So, despite the 125k (which is like half what I was making before), I'm leaning towards passing on this offer.  The tone from leadership feels a bit too rigid for my taste.  [...]

IMO the perfect way to both give your feedback and test your theory is to turn them down politely, telling them how much you liked the sound of the position and felt like you could contribute, but that you're really looking for an opportunity that gives more flexibility.

If they're as inflexible as you think, they will accept that as is, and you can move on. If they're more flexible than you give them credit for, maybe they'll give you a counter-offer.

I would not offer them any alternative options at this point - you don't want to make it seem like you're using this as a negotiating tactic.

Edit: Forgot to add - "In my opinion."

[Psychstache]

You guys are amazing...so many wise and interesting perspectives - much appreciated.  still learning how to navigate the site and reply to all of the great input...can't figure out how to do that other than quoting each post which is tedious. 

Anyhoo - feels so great to have found a community of like-minded individuals who are financially free or striving to be financially free.  Heard back from HR after speaking with the hiring manager and they say:
"We are okay with you working from home from time to time. THAT BEING SAID.....we are a collaborative organization and being present in the office is a critical part of what we need. The expectation is that working from home will be irregular (a few times a month, not a few times a week) - so as long as we are in agreement there, I think we will both be happy.  Is this along the lines of what you were thinking?  We are not a work from home company, but do understand that there are times when its helpful."

For me, the hoped for answer would have been "as long as you get your work done and are in the office when we need you to be there, we don't care where you work" or at least "you can work from home a day or two a week as needed as long as you are available on site when the team needs you."

So, despite the 125k (which is like half what I was making before), I'm leaning towards passing on this offer.  The tone from leadership feels a bit too rigid for my taste.  If others feel like I'm reading too much into the response, let me know.  They want a decision by Friday and hope that I can start Monday or the following Monday. Side eye.

If you are at all interested in the job, I would just firmly restate that 2 days of remote work is a non-negotiable, and if that does not fit with their need for the position, you will have to pass. If you are still wishy washy, then I would just tell them thanks but no thanks. You are in the driver's seat here.

[Villanelle]

I'd probably respond to the job offer telling them that while I am extremely interested and it sounds like a great fit otherwise, I'm not looking for a job that has me in the office any more than 4 days a week, though of course with flexibility as special issues arise.  Since it sounds like a permanent 1 day a week work from home situation isn't a good fit with their culture, regrettably I have to pass, unless I am misunderstanding and that would be something to which they could commit.

I know you wanted 2 days and I proposed only 1, but to me, that would probably be worth giving it a try, giving it 9 months, and the quitting if I wasn't happy (or negotiating for more time home at that point, once they'd had a chance to fall in love with me).

[iris lily]

If youndivorce, wouod your share of the assets allow ypumto contnue in FIRE? If not,maybe you should,build up some  more assets.

[YBFree]

I think I will draw a line in the sand and see what they do.  I have nothing to lose and plenty to gain.  I KNOW I won't be happy M-F, 9-5pm in an open (no offices, no cubes) work space.  Been there, done that - can't do it without solitude breaks.  I think it may be an introvert thing. I'll keep you guys posted on how it goes.

The D(ivorce) word is scary, but I don't think our differences on FIRE are so intense as to be a reason to split - just causes some discomfort on both sides as we try to find common ground. The asset question is an interesting one, though.  I would have enough assets to continue to be FIREd if we split but it would be a less comfortable lifestyle...to the point that I'd prob either get a housemate or strongly consider going back to work

[woopwoop]

I know you wanted 2 days and I proposed only 1, but to me, that would probably be worth giving it a try, giving it 9 months, and the quitting if I wasn't happy (or negotiating for more time home at that point, once they'd had a chance to fall in love with me).

This is what I would do. Accept with flexible remote days, work there for a little bit and make sure they like you and you like them, then tell them after a few months that it's not working out unless you can work remotely for 2 days out of the week. By then, they're very invested in you and are WAYYYY more likely to accede to your request. This is assuming your work will fall in love with you (but come on, if you're a good worker, they will fall in love with you).

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Please don't consider splitting up.  Divorce should be scary because (at least to me) it is a huge failure.  People change, life is complicated... there are a million reasons why we should throw in the towel along the way.  As a runner, it is easy to give up, but you ultimately lose.  Maybe, sometimes the race is more than you prepared for or something unforeseen happened.  In my case, when kids are involved, divorce is the last ditch effort to make life work going forward, but in your case, you should artificially elevate it to this status.  I don't get the impression that you are being taken advantage of or rationalizing.  So I really don't understand anything toward divorce being a good path forward.  As I said earlier, good luck!  But we're just strangers on the internet, ultimately, even if we mean well. 

[avrex]

@YBFree, don't take the job.

You've already stated that you would not be happy in such an environment.  Why would you bother.  You are already FI.

I think the only reason that you are considering this job is because of GUILT. 
Guilt from your spouse and in-laws. 

Even if the company agrees to your request for working two days at home (which they won't) .... don't take the job.

Think about it this way.

You and your husband are currently FI. 
He loves his job/career.  He has stated that he intends to work for the next 25 years (until he's 60).
Wow.  That's 25 more years of his salary on top of you already being FI.
I'm guessing, based on the math, when your husband retires, you'll both be crazy rich. 
When you both die, you'll have a huge fortune.  There's no way you'll ever run out of money.

You working another few years (at a job that you know you won't like) won't make a difference.

Why be unhappy?  Don't take the job. 

Go ahead and enjoy life.

[YBFree]

Just to clarify, divorce isn't on the radar screen for any reason...was just responding to the other posters. Thanks for the good luck wishes, though, always appreciate good energy.  My life thus far has taught be that I can only go in the right direction if I follow my heart.  So I'm going to focus on doing that in regards to this decision. 

[BeanCounter]

The asset question is an interesting one, though.  I would have enough assets to continue to be FIREd if we split but it would be a less comfortable lifestyle...to the point that I'd prob either get a housemate or strongly consider going back to work

IMHO, it sounds like you are not quite truly FI yet. And that's why you need to go back to work for a bit. I think it will help both of you feel a bit more comfortable and hopefully squash any building resentment and discussions about what is "fair".

I also agree with another commentor who said we have to remember that there is more to life than just FIRE. If it's not working for you all as a family unit and team, then it's time to reevaluate.

My DH and I don't see eye to eye on FIRE either. I've have made a few compromises along the way, and I expect I'll have to make a few more. But this is what I signed up for when I decided to share my life with someone.