Author Topic: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage  (Read 4142 times)

kaizen soze

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2019, 04:36:52 PM »
There is an episode of the chooseFI podcast with a guy who lives with his family most of the year in central America. He was pretty cool on the idea of using geoarbitrage as a means of retiring early. He argued that successful geoarbritagers adopt the local lifestyle, using public transit, cooking their own meals, living in a modest apartment. But these are all things you can do in a LCOL area of the US. The big difference is that other than rent and probably health care, costs for things are much cheaper in the US than in many developing countries. I bring this up mostly not to pour cold water on anyone's plan to move internationally. But to suggest that a person who doesn't want to move overseas can get the best of both worlds by making some lifestyle changes at home.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2019, 10:25:53 PM »
There is an episode of the chooseFI podcast with a guy who lives with his family most of the year in central America. He was pretty cool on the idea of using geoarbitrage as a means of retiring early. He argued that successful geoarbritagers adopt the local lifestyle, using public transit, cooking their own meals, living in a modest apartment. But these are all things you can do in a LCOL area of the US. The big difference is that other than rent and probably health care, costs for things are much cheaper in the US than in many developing countries. I bring this up mostly not to pour cold water on anyone's plan to move internationally. But to suggest that a person who doesn't want to move overseas can get the best of both worlds by making some lifestyle changes at home.

Itís intereting that you say this. I was definitely planning on living permanently anywhere but the US.  Since I might need to change that if some things in my life work out, Iíve been thinking about life in the USA and realize that if youíre FIREd and donít need to be near a capital city for work, you can live quite cheaply in the US. Outside of healthcare, itís incredibly affordable. I donít think most Americans realize what high quality they get at such low prices. Hell you can buy a beautiful home for the cost of a deposit in some countries. It doesnít make the US perfect, particularly when it comes to racism, so I get why some might not want to live in the US, no matter how cheap.

Padonak

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2019, 09:31:14 PM »
There is an episode of the chooseFI podcast with a guy who lives with his family most of the year in central America. He was pretty cool on the idea of using geoarbitrage as a means of retiring early. He argued that successful geoarbritagers adopt the local lifestyle, using public transit, cooking their own meals, living in a modest apartment. But these are all things you can do in a LCOL area of the US. The big difference is that other than rent and probably health care, costs for things are much cheaper in the US than in many developing countries. I bring this up mostly not to pour cold water on anyone's plan to move internationally. But to suggest that a person who doesn't want to move overseas can get the best of both worlds by making some lifestyle changes at home.

Itís intereting that you say this. I was definitely planning on living permanently anywhere but the US.  Since I might need to change that if some things in my life work out, Iíve been thinking about life in the USA and realize that if youíre FIREd and donít need to be near a capital city for work, you can live quite cheaply in the US. Outside of healthcare, itís incredibly affordable. I donít think most Americans realize what high quality they get at such low prices. Hell you can buy a beautiful home for the cost of a deposit in some countries. It doesnít make the US perfect, particularly when it comes to racism, so I get why some might not want to live in the US, no matter how cheap.

Can you give some examples of nice places in the US where a FIREd person can leave quite cheaply? Nice as in safe, either walkable or short drive from a walkable downtown, mild climate, pretty good access to healthcare if you have subsidized ACA insurance.

There are many places in the world that fit that description where a single person can live well on $1500/month or less all included and a couple w/o children can live on <$2000.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2019, 10:55:57 PM »
There is an episode of the chooseFI podcast with a guy who lives with his family most of the year in central America. He was pretty cool on the idea of using geoarbitrage as a means of retiring early. He argued that successful geoarbritagers adopt the local lifestyle, using public transit, cooking their own meals, living in a modest apartment. But these are all things you can do in a LCOL area of the US. The big difference is that other than rent and probably health care, costs for things are much cheaper in the US than in many developing countries. I bring this up mostly not to pour cold water on anyone's plan to move internationally. But to suggest that a person who doesn't want to move overseas can get the best of both worlds by making some lifestyle changes at home.

Itís intereting that you say this. I was definitely planning on living permanently anywhere but the US.  Since I might need to change that if some things in my life work out, Iíve been thinking about life in the USA and realize that if youíre FIREd and donít need to be near a capital city for work, you can live quite cheaply in the US. Outside of healthcare, itís incredibly affordable. I donít think most Americans realize what high quality they get at such low prices. Hell you can buy a beautiful home for the cost of a deposit in some countries. It doesnít make the US perfect, particularly when it comes to racism, so I get why some might not want to live in the US, no matter how cheap.

Can you give some examples of nice places in the US where a FIREd person can leave quite cheaply? Nice as in safe, either walkable or short drive from a walkable downtown, mild climate, pretty good access to healthcare if you have subsidized ACA insurance.

There are many places in the world that fit that description where a single person can live well on $1500/month or less all included and a couple w/o children can live on <$2000.

Just google buddy: https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/slideshows/best-affordable-places-to-live-in-the-us

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/10-cheapest-places-to-live-in-the-us/

http://mentalfloss.com/article/85668/11-most-affordable-cities-us

Not to mention lots of small towns across the US if you know the areas.

jim555

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2019, 05:00:25 AM »
Many places in the US are affordable, it is a big country.  A lot of these LCOL countries have massive pollution, crime, or rule of law problems. 

dude

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2019, 09:06:18 AM »
All this discussion has cemented my feelings on moving abroad vs. just living there for modest spans of time. In a few of the places I really love (e.g., Mexico and Costa Rica), friends who are locals down there always ask me if I plan to buy a place and move there after I retire. I tell them all the same thing -- I don't want to be pinned down living in one place. I'd rather maintain a home base in the U.S. and spend 3-6 months renting and living/traveling in a particular country, and repeating the process year after year until I decide I want to settle in one spot -- which would almost certainly be the U.S. I actually love where I live now in the U.S. and can see myself growing old here, but only after experiencing those aforementioned periods of "living abroad."

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2019, 01:01:09 PM »
All this discussion has cemented my feelings on moving abroad vs. just living there for modest spans of time. In a few of the places I really love (e.g., Mexico and Costa Rica), friends who are locals down there always ask me if I plan to buy a place and move there after I retire. I tell them all the same thing -- I don't want to be pinned down living in one place. I'd rather maintain a home base in the U.S. and spend 3-6 months renting and living/traveling in a particular country, and repeating the process year after year until I decide I want to settle in one spot -- which would almost certainly be the U.S. I actually love where I live now in the U.S. and can see myself growing old here, but only after experiencing those aforementioned periods of "living abroad."

If the kid thing works out, this might be me too. 

spartana

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2019, 01:39:42 PM »
All this discussion has cemented my feelings on moving abroad vs. just living there for modest spans of time. In a few of the places I really love (e.g., Mexico and Costa Rica), friends who are locals down there always ask me if I plan to buy a place and move there after I retire. I tell them all the same thing -- I don't want to be pinned down living in one place. I'd rather maintain a home base in the U.S. and spend 3-6 months renting and living/traveling in a particular country, and repeating the process year after year until I decide I want to settle in one spot -- which would almost certainly be the U.S. I actually love where I live now in the U.S. and can see myself growing old here, but only after experiencing those aforementioned periods of "living abroad."
This is where I was when I first FIREd - owned a place in the US and travelled a few months a year - and where I'm going to end up again (eventually) after a bit of full time travelling/renting. I'm finding I like having a home base in the US and that suits me better than full time vagabond. As a single childless person I'm more flexible on where and how I can live to keep costs low even in expensive areas. Like Tahoe ;-).

spartana

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2019, 01:45:58 PM »
Many places in the US are affordable, it is a big country.  A lot of these LCOL countries have massive pollution, crime, or rule of law problems.
There's often many social differences too - especially for single women - in some countries that aren't issues in the US or any of the more developed nations or in tourist or expat communities.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2019, 01:51:26 PM »
All this discussion has cemented my feelings on moving abroad vs. just living there for modest spans of time. In a few of the places I really love (e.g., Mexico and Costa Rica), friends who are locals down there always ask me if I plan to buy a place and move there after I retire. I tell them all the same thing -- I don't want to be pinned down living in one place. I'd rather maintain a home base in the U.S. and spend 3-6 months renting and living/traveling in a particular country, and repeating the process year after year until I decide I want to settle in one spot -- which would almost certainly be the U.S. I actually love where I live now in the U.S. and can see myself growing old here, but only after experiencing those aforementioned periods of "living abroad."
This is where I was when I first FIREd - owned a place in the US and travelled a few months a year - and where I'm going to end up again (eventually) after a bit of full time travelling/renting. I'm finding I like having a home base in the US and that suits me better than full time vagabond. As a single childless person I'm more flexible on where and how I can live to keep costs low even in expensive areas. Like Tahoe ;-).

Do you Airbnb when youíre away or some other type of arrangement?

spartana

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2019, 02:32:05 PM »
All this discussion has cemented my feelings on moving abroad vs. just living there for modest spans of time. In a few of the places I really love (e.g., Mexico and Costa Rica), friends who are locals down there always ask me if I plan to buy a place and move there after I retire. I tell them all the same thing -- I don't want to be pinned down living in one place. I'd rather maintain a home base in the U.S. and spend 3-6 months renting and living/traveling in a particular country, and repeating the process year after year until I decide I want to settle in one spot -- which would almost certainly be the U.S. I actually love where I live now in the U.S. and can see myself growing old here, but only after experiencing those aforementioned periods of "living abroad."
This is where I was when I first FIREd - owned a place in the US and travelled a few months a year - and where I'm going to end up again (eventually) after a bit of full time travelling/renting. I'm finding I like having a home base in the US and that suits me better than full time vagabond. As a single childless person I'm more flexible on where and how I can live to keep costs low even in expensive areas. Like Tahoe ;-).

Do you Airbnb when you’re away or some other type of arrangement?
No. I generally camped (had a dog then) or rented a place by the month if staying in one area longer term. I have a weird bedbug/motel skankiness phobia so short term AirBNBs and motels are done rarely and with much angst on my part. Use to use hostels when travelling overseas so plan to do that again but need to break the phobia first. If I can't it'll be camping and longer term apt rentals. I prefer camping though but hostels would be my first choice overseas though by bike or train as minimal effort and stuff.

ETA just realized you were asking me if I rented out my house while I was gone. No I didn't. Partially for the reasons above but also it was paid off and didn't cost much in expenses so just left it empty with someone to check on it. I liked having the option to go back home whenever I wanted with having to wait until renters left. That proved pretty priceless more than a couple of times  when I or my dog got sick or injured or I was just "done" with travelling.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 02:43:53 PM by spartana »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2019, 06:42:01 PM »
All this discussion has cemented my feelings on moving abroad vs. just living there for modest spans of time. In a few of the places I really love (e.g., Mexico and Costa Rica), friends who are locals down there always ask me if I plan to buy a place and move there after I retire. I tell them all the same thing -- I don't want to be pinned down living in one place. I'd rather maintain a home base in the U.S. and spend 3-6 months renting and living/traveling in a particular country, and repeating the process year after year until I decide I want to settle in one spot -- which would almost certainly be the U.S. I actually love where I live now in the U.S. and can see myself growing old here, but only after experiencing those aforementioned periods of "living abroad."
This is where I was when I first FIREd - owned a place in the US and travelled a few months a year - and where I'm going to end up again (eventually) after a bit of full time travelling/renting. I'm finding I like having a home base in the US and that suits me better than full time vagabond. As a single childless person I'm more flexible on where and how I can live to keep costs low even in expensive areas. Like Tahoe ;-).

Do you Airbnb when youíre away or some other type of arrangement?
No. I generally camped (had a dog then) or rented a place by the month if staying in one area longer term. I have a weird bedbug/motel skankiness phobia so short term AirBNBs and motels are done rarely and with much angst on my part. Use to use hostels when travelling overseas so plan to do that again but need to break the phobia first. If I can't it'll be camping and longer term apt rentals. I prefer camping though but hostels would be my first choice overseas though by bike or train as minimal effort and stuff.

ETA just realized you were asking me if I rented out my house while I was gone. No I didn't. Partially for the reasons above but also it was paid off and didn't cost much in expenses so just left it empty with someone to check on it. I liked having the option to go back home whenever I wanted with having to wait until renters left. That proved pretty priceless more than a couple of times  when I or my dog got sick or injured or I was just "done" with travelling.

Thanks. Yes, thatís what I meant. Interesting. I think if I were to do thst, Iíd want a 2 bedroom apartment so itís easily cared for.

spartana

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2019, 01:04:05 AM »
All this discussion has cemented my feelings on moving abroad vs. just living there for modest spans of time. In a few of the places I really love (e.g., Mexico and Costa Rica), friends who are locals down there always ask me if I plan to buy a place and move there after I retire. I tell them all the same thing -- I don't want to be pinned down living in one place. I'd rather maintain a home base in the U.S. and spend 3-6 months renting and living/traveling in a particular country, and repeating the process year after year until I decide I want to settle in one spot -- which would almost certainly be the U.S. I actually love where I live now in the U.S. and can see myself growing old here, but only after experiencing those aforementioned periods of "living abroad."
This is where I was when I first FIREd - owned a place in the US and travelled a few months a year - and where I'm going to end up again (eventually) after a bit of full time travelling/renting. I'm finding I like having a home base in the US and that suits me better than full time vagabond. As a single childless person I'm more flexible on where and how I can live to keep costs low even in expensive areas. Like Tahoe ;-).

Do you Airbnb when youíre away or some other type of arrangement?
No. I generally camped (had a dog then) or rented a place by the month if staying in one area longer term. I have a weird bedbug/motel skankiness phobia so short term AirBNBs and motels are done rarely and with much angst on my part. Use to use hostels when travelling overseas so plan to do that again but need to break the phobia first. If I can't it'll be camping and longer term apt rentals. I prefer camping though but hostels would be my first choice overseas though by bike or train as minimal effort and stuff.

ETA just realized you were asking me if I rented out my house while I was gone. No I didn't. Partially for the reasons above but also it was paid off and didn't cost much in expenses so just left it empty with someone to check on it. I liked having the option to go back home whenever I wanted with having to wait until renters left. That proved pretty priceless more than a couple of times  when I or my dog got sick or injured or I was just "done" with travelling.

Thanks. Yes, thatís what I meant. Interesting. I think if I were to do thst, Iíd want a 2 bedroom apartment so itís easily cared for.
Yes I'd also prefer a small place that I could just lock the door and go without worry. But I had several pets then so needed a house and yard for them. The next place I buy will likely be a very small condo or cabin in a ski town. I generally found I like to stay home during summers and winters (if I live in an area I like) and travel or stay somewhere else in late spring and early fall. I had also thought of moving out of the US but I found I could live fairly cheaply here if I have affordable housing.

spartana

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Re: FIRE via Geo-Arbitrage
« Reply #63 on: February 14, 2019, 12:00:53 AM »
There is an episode of the chooseFI podcast with a guy who lives with his family most of the year in central America. He was pretty cool on the idea of using geoarbitrage as a means of retiring early. He argued that successful geoarbritagers adopt the local lifestyle, using public transit, cooking their own meals, living in a modest apartment. But these are all things you can do in a LCOL area of the US. The big difference is that other than rent and probably health care, costs for things are much cheaper in the US than in many developing countries. I bring this up mostly not to pour cold water on anyone's plan to move internationally. But to suggest that a person who doesn't want to move overseas can get the best of both worlds by making some lifestyle changes at home.

Itís intereting that you say this. I was definitely planning on living permanently anywhere but the US.  Since I might need to change that if some things in my life work out, Iíve been thinking about life in the USA and realize that if youíre FIREd and donít need to be near a capital city for work, you can live quite cheaply in the US. Outside of healthcare, itís incredibly affordable. I donít think most Americans realize what high quality they get at such low prices. Hell you can buy a beautiful home for the cost of a deposit in some countries. It doesnít make the US perfect, particularly when it comes to racism, so I get why some might not want to live in the US, no matter how cheap.

Can you give some examples of nice places in the US where a FIREd person can leave quite cheaply? Nice as in safe, either walkable or short drive from a walkable downtown, mild climate, pretty good access to healthcare if you have subsidized ACA insurance.

There are many places in the world that fit that description where a single person can live well on $1500/month or less all included and a couple w/o children can live on <$2000.
This will likely depend mostly on your housing situation. If you have a paid off place and low cost health insurance it's pretty easy to live on $1500/month most places in the US. If your single and childless then having roommates, renting a room, or living in a small rental apt is probably doable in most places - even higher COL areas. But if you want to buy a house with a mortgage or rent a house or larger unshared apt you'll have to look for lower cost areas but there seem to be plenty.