Author Topic: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?  (Read 4172 times)

cap396

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Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« on: June 12, 2018, 06:07:12 PM »
I just had the rare opportunity to take a nap.  I went into a deep sleep and woke up very refreshed.

I'm wondering how people's sleep patterns change post-fire.  Do you sleep more, less, about the same?  Do you go to bed later or earlier, sleep in later, etc?

DW and I are planning to FIRE this summer and hope to have better sleep.

Gremlin

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2018, 07:12:37 PM »
I'm not yet truly 100% FIREd, but am somewhat there.

I find myself sleeping less than I did before.  But I'm far less tired than when I was on the corporate treadmill.  This is despite the fact that I'm exercising more as well.  I find my sleep is more restful and deeper now I don't have a permanent fog of work stress hanging over me.

SwordGuy

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2018, 08:52:46 PM »
I sleep a bit later and go to bed about the same time.   I was sleep-deprived before.  Much less so, now.   And when I feel tired, I stop and take a nap.  Life is good.

Gone Fishing

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2018, 07:57:05 AM »
In all honesty, my sleep patterns are probably worse since FIRE.  When I was working, I was always tired at bedtime, knew I had to get up early for work (which encouraged me to go to bed), and had little to look forward to the next day.  I didn't suffer from work dreams at all and usually slept fairly sound. 

Now I often stay up late, knowing I don't have to go to work the next day, and knowing I can probably catch a nap if I need one.  But, if I take a nap, I'm more likely to stay up late, just perpetuating the cycle.  I also wake up early when I am stoked about the upcoming day, usually a road trip or the like, which results in being tired before ever getting on the road.  The one thing I notice is that being tired is less painful than it used to be.  It used to come with a headache, which was just made worse by caffeine.  Now, when I'm tired, I'm just tired, and seem to be able to recharge a bit by relaxing on the sofa for 15-20 minutes.

I'm also recovering from a (hopefully fixed) chronic health problem that severely affected my sleep.  I'm looking forward to some 100% pain free sleep, which I haven't seen in months...

SunnyDays

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2018, 10:57:29 AM »
I definitely sleep more, although I go to bed later, (around midnight) but wake up later too (around 10:00).  The one day a week I need to get up at 7:30 is brutal - don't know how I did it for 30 years.  I rarely nap though, generally only if I'm not feeling well.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 02:01:34 PM »
I definitely sleep more, although I go to bed later, (around midnight) but wake up later too (around 10:00).  The one day a week I need to get up at 7:30 is brutal - don't know how I did it for 30 years.  I rarely nap though, generally only if I'm not feeling well.

That is simple, just keep a rythm, every day to bed and up at the same time. And getting to bed early enough. For me it is at 10 pm. Very early, but this is how I manage to get up at 6 am. It takes some weeks, but then the rythm sits.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 11:57:31 PM by Linda_Norway »

Fishindude

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 03:00:07 PM »
Yep, I stay up later and sleep in longer.  Usually sleep till about 8:00, when I was working I was up about 6:00 every weekday.

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 08:28:06 AM »
The last several years before FIRE, my sleep pattern gradually got worse.  I would go to be early because I was absolutely exhausted, and I would fall asleep in a nanosecond.  But then I would wake up somewhere between 1:00 and 3:00 am and would have a hard time getting back to sleep.  I'd usually give up and get out of bed by 4:00 or 4:30.  So I was only getting around 5 hours of good sleep, plus a little bit of dozing.  I wasn't thinking about work when I was lying there awake, so I didn't really connect this sleep pattern with work stress.  I just figured it was part of the normal process of getting older and sleeping less.  Afternoons and early evenings were brutal; I felt so tired and sleepy that I couldn't really get much done during those hours. 

For the first month or two after FIRE, my night time sleep pattern stayed about the same, but I was able to give in to the overwhelming sleepiness in the afternoon and take a nap for 1/2 hour to an hour.  Eventually the night time wakefulness went away, and I started sleeping straight through for 7 to 8 hours (except nights when I have to get up to pee - still working on optimizing evening liquid intake).  I still take an occasional nap, but most days I don't feel like I need one.  I'm about 6 months into FIRE now, and I'm sleeping better than I have in years.

So even though I wasn't actively stressing about work stuff when I woke up at night, apparently the work stress was still affecting my sleep patterns.  I'm so happy to be sleeping better now - I had about reached the point where I had just resigned myself to crappy sleep for the rest of my life.

cap396

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 09:39:17 AM »
Wow Monkey Uncle, your pre-FIRE sleep pattern sounds exactly identical to mine (falling asleep almost instantly but waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to get back to sleep, even though not really thinking about work).

I hope my sleep pattern improves post-FIRE as yours eventually did.  I should find out soon.

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2018, 12:38:38 PM »
Wow Monkey Uncle, your pre-FIRE sleep pattern sounds exactly identical to mine (falling asleep almost instantly but waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to get back to sleep, even though not really thinking about work).

I hope my sleep pattern improves post-FIRE as yours eventually did.  I should find out soon.

Good luck!

ks135ks

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 05:41:20 PM »
It definitely depends on the day.  I've been FIRE'd about 10 months now and find that most days I will get up later than I did when I was working.  On the days that I get up earlier, it's usually to make sure that I can have breakfast with my hubby before he heads out the door for work and half the time I end up taking a nap when he leaves.  (Shhh... don't tell him ;-P)  I also stay up a bit later now.

When exciting projects are on deck for the day, I'm up earlier and ready to get things accomplished :-)

Mr. Green

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2018, 06:34:15 PM »
My bedtime in general has gotten later since FIRE because I know I have nothing that requires me to be up in the morning, though I do have a daily 8:30am alarm because I hate waking up and feeling like half the day is gone.

I think my sleep pattern is probably a little worse because there are nights where I'll stay up too late and I'm really not a nap person. I have to be REALLY tired to fall asleep during the day. Ive never really had any trouble getting solid sleep though.

Happily Irrelevant

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2018, 05:57:36 PM »
I'm a born early riser so my times for going to bed and getting up didn't change.  Waking up in the middle of the night thinking of things doesn't happen.  On the rare occasions I do wake up I'll just watch a recorded show for an hour or two knowing I can sleep a little later or take a nap.  I never think about being tired.

Aegishjalmur

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2018, 02:47:58 PM »
DW and I sleep much more. Looking at my Fitbit records, went from 6-7 hrs a night on average to 7.5-9 per night on average. As we are pretty active everyday now I am not surprised, plus we were both pretty badly burned out. It has only been three months since we fired and the first month and a half was getting ready to sell the home and start full time traveling so I will be interested in seeing what it looks like after 6 months or more.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2018, 02:58:48 PM »
I just had the rare opportunity to take a nap.  I went into a deep sleep and woke up very refreshed.

I'm wondering how people's sleep patterns change post-fire.  Do you sleep more, less, about the same?  Do you go to bed later or earlier, sleep in later, etc?

DW and I are planning to FIRE this summer and hope to have better sleep.

I HATE being  tired.

I definitely sleep more since FI/RE.

~ 10-12 hours per day because I AM NOT a high-energy person in terms of physical activity.

I think I need lots of sleep because when I'm awake, mentally, I'm  running  @ 100,000 RPM.

Though I do sleep fitfully, 10-12  hours per day is  plenty  so happily, tiredness  is not a problem for me.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 03:03:43 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

Bird In Hand

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2018, 03:26:07 PM »
~ 10-12 hours per day because I AM NOT a high-energy person in terms of physical activity.

I think I need lots of sleep because when I'm awake, mentally, I'm  running  @ 100,000 RPM.

Though I do sleep fitfully, 10-12  hours per day is  plenty  so happily, tiredness  is not a problem for me.

I suppose it could be that you really do need 10-12 hours to feel rested.  But the 'sleep fitfully' part makes me wonder whether you're simply not getting quality sleep for any number of reasons.  If you have trouble getting to the deepest stages of sleep, you can be sleep deprived even with an ostensibly adequate (or in your case, possibly excessive) number of hours of sleep.

I'm not a sleep expert, and I don't know you from a hole in the ground, so take any advice I have with a grain of salt.  But it might be possible for you to improve your sleep quality and simultaneously gain 2 or more hours of productive wakefulness every day.  If i were in your shoes, I'd consider having a sleep study done, and/or experiment with melatonin, and/or try a different mattress, and/or start an exercise regimen to aid in sleep, and/or stay away from computer/phone/tv screens for an hour or more before bed.  YMMV & IANAMD.

FIFoFum

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2018, 04:30:56 PM »
I sleep more (about 1.5 hours more on average) since leaving full-time work. I let myself to figure out what my body naturally "needs" with no alarm & sleeping when I'm tired. Now, I try to stick to a general schedule that works for me. For me, that means waking up in a window between 6 and 6:30 AM & going to sleep around 10:30 - 11 PM with few exceptions.

I don't use alarms unless I have something completely out of the ordinary going on, like an early morning flight or a critical early appointment (where the alarm is really just a backup in the highly unlikely event I don't wake up at my regular time).

I avoid napping unless I have some reason that I'm extra tired or my sleep quantity/quality has suffered, such as being sick, poor diet, or tending to a young puppy. But that's because I'm not one of those people who wakes from naps feeling refreshed and recharged.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2018, 10:43:26 AM »
~ 10-12 hours per day because I AM NOT a high-energy person in terms of physical activity.

I think I need lots of sleep because when I'm awake, mentally, I'm  running  @ 100,000 RPM.

Though I do sleep fitfully, 10-12  hours per day is  plenty  so happily, tiredness  is not a problem for me.

I suppose it could be that you really do need 10-12 hours to feel rested.  But the 'sleep fitfully' part makes me wonder whether you're simply not getting quality sleep for any number of reasons.  If you have trouble getting to the deepest stages of sleep, you can be sleep deprived even with an ostensibly adequate (or in your case, possibly excessive) number of hours of sleep.

I'm not a sleep expert, and I don't know you from a hole in the ground, so take any advice I have with a grain of salt.  But it might be possible for you to improve your sleep quality and simultaneously gain 2 or more hours of productive wakefulness every day.  If i were in your shoes, I'd consider having a sleep study done, and/or experiment with melatonin, and/or try a different mattress, and/or start an exercise regimen to aid in sleep, and/or stay away from computer/phone/tv screens for an hour or more before bed.  YMMV & IANAMD.


I sleep soundly in my hammock when I go camping in my back yard so I'm going to get an indoor  hammock setup.

And I will start exercising in the late afternoon.

A walk to and from my mailbox is ~ 2 miles.

Methinks it would be good and sufficient exercise.

"stay away from computer/phone/tv screens for an hour or more before bed."

^^^

I will.

Thanks for the advice.

I'll let you know the results.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2018, 11:18:47 AM »
I sleep soundly in my hammock when I go camping in my back yard so I'm going to get an indoor  hammock setup.

And I will start exercising in the late afternoon.

A walk to and from my mailbox is ~ 2 miles.

Methinks it would be good and sufficient exercise.

"stay away from computer/phone/tv screens for an hour or more before bed."

^^^

I will.

Thanks for the advice.

I'll let you know the results.

I wish you good luck with this!  In my experience, my happiness, productivity, and general outlook on life is greatly impacted by the quantity and quality of sleep I get.

A 2 mile walk per day for the mail is pretty good!  If you're physically capable, I would also suggest some sort of vigorous exercise a few times a week.  Really just for general health, but also for better sleep.  Maybe to start with you could work up to a jog so that you could jog to and/or from the mailbox a couple times per week?

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2018, 05:56:57 AM »
I definitely sleep less at one time since being fired BUT I take naps that are very refreshing. Night time i sleep maybe 5 hours but thats about it.  In that regards though 53 I've become and old man in that i can nap in my chair at the drop of a hat and i have learned to actually like it.

Malkynn

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2018, 06:34:40 AM »
Not FIRE yet, but did downshift to part time.

I sleep pretty much exactly the same, but I'm infinitely more rested, and I wake up without an alarm clock now.
I used to be a 5-snooze-button-presses-every-morning kind of person who would then rise in utter despair and exhaustion after a full night of sleep and grumblingly drink my precious coffee to desperately try and build the will to get up and put on pants.

Now I wake up at 5:15 daily, well rested, with minimal grogginess, enjoy my morning coffee while reading the forum, do a bit of physio stretches, and hop along with my day, whether it's a "day off" or a traditional work day.

I never in a million years expected to be "a morning person," but I'm now consistently up before the sun.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2018, 08:50:01 AM »
I never in a million years expected to be "a morning person," but I'm now consistently up before the sun.

Wow, I really hope to follow in your path.  I've always been jealous of people who were able to get up early and feel refreshed and ready to go.  I'm groggy for a long time in the mornings regardless of how many hours I sleep, hence my obsession with improving sleep quality.

mxt0133

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2018, 10:02:19 AM »
I'm not FIRED and still work full-time but I have been sleeping really well after making a few lifestyle changes.  You don't have to wait until FIRE to get better sleep.

For me it was changing my diet by lowering carbs and not eating past 8pm.  That change improved the quality of my sleep significantly and I would no longer wake up during the night.  However, I still needed naps and about 8 hours of sleep.  I would wake up and stay in bed for another 30 minutes or so before getting up.  Like someone else mention before my mind would constantly be running at 10,000 RPM, thinking about FIRE, work, health, family, ect.  Then I started practicing mindfulness where I stopped spending soo much time thinking about the future and just trying to be present more.  I started meditating and from there I have been constantly waking up when the sun rises and can't go back to sleep because I feel so refreshed.  My stress and anxiety levels are way down and I am in a much better mood throughout the day.

Tweaking your current habits will hopefully result in improve quality of sleep.

Malkynn

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2018, 03:31:07 PM »
I never in a million years expected to be "a morning person," but I'm now consistently up before the sun.

Wow, I really hope to follow in your path.  I've always been jealous of people who were able to get up early and feel refreshed and ready to go.  I'm groggy for a long time in the mornings regardless of how many hours I sleep, hence my obsession with improving sleep quality.

Iíve always been jealous of those people too, I never in a million years expected to be one.

Itís not like I jump out of bed, Iím still slow and sleepy in the morning, but Iím definitely awake and donít need any more sleep. Itís weird.

MoneyMatrix

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2018, 03:42:47 PM »
I have been reading a book called "Why We Sleep" by neurologist Mathew Walker.

It's made me understand so much about sleep rhythms, and REM sleep and the need for sleep. It also explains how caffeine works to some extent, enough to make me cut back 2 cups of coffee. I had 2 cups of tea and 2 cups of coffee a day before.

He seems to think lack of sleep is a big part of some of the industrial countries illnesses, like dementia.
Mostly it just lays out a good understand of how sleep works, which has been enough to prioritize sleep. I have been sleeping better since I cut back the coffee.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2018, 07:43:00 PM »
We have a very well lit AM bedroom.   I've been with the sun 0530 summertime, but can sometimes read  the forum and get back to sleep.  I don't leap out of bed, as that would wake up MrsMsrkbike528cbx, who usually cannot doze after AM wake up.   

Before FIRE, I was groggy at 0630 alarm time.   

Still only 50 days of FIRE, and 20 days of that was cross-US trip.  Long-winded PTF.

AlwaysBeenASaver

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2018, 08:26:13 PM »
I sleep roughly the same amount, and at the same times, as I did post FIRE (3 years fired.) However I have fewer nights where I get to bed way later than I should because now I can get everything I need to do done before bedtime. Pre-FIRE that wasn't always true.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2018, 10:44:13 AM »
I slept more at first but as the quality of my sleep improved I started getting up early naturally without an alarm.  This summer has been brutally hot so I've been taking naps during the hot part of the day.  Don't really get to sleep but do get to relax.

Happily Irrelevant

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2018, 05:34:19 PM »
I get more sleep now.  Those wide awake hours in the middle of the night don't happen very often anymore.  If they do I don't really care as I will just take a nap later in the day.  I think nothing of turning on the TV at 2am and watching something I recorded.  Before I would lay there for 3 hours until I was sleepy again. 

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2018, 11:12:42 AM »
~ 10-12 hours per day because I AM NOT a high-energy person in terms of physical activity.

I think I need lots of sleep because when I'm awake, mentally, I'm  running  @ 100,000 RPM.

Though I do sleep fitfully, 10-12  hours per day is  plenty  so happily, tiredness  is not a problem for me.

I suppose it could be that you really do need 10-12 hours to feel rested.  But the 'sleep fitfully' part makes me wonder whether you're simply not getting quality sleep for any number of reasons.  If you have trouble getting to the deepest stages of sleep, you can be sleep deprived even with an ostensibly adequate (or in your case, possibly excessive) number of hours of sleep.

I'm not a sleep expert, and I don't know you from a hole in the ground, so take any advice I have with a grain of salt.  But it might be possible for you to improve your sleep quality and simultaneously gain 2 or more hours of productive wakefulness every day.  If i were in your shoes, I'd consider having a sleep study done, and/or experiment with melatonin, and/or try a different mattress, and/or start an exercise regimen to aid in sleep, and/or stay away from computer/phone/tv screens for an hour or more before bed.  YMMV & IANAMD.

1. I switched from a mattress to a hammock.

2. I changed my exercise regimen.

3. I shut down my computer ~ 2 hours before bed.


^^^

These 3 changes have markedly improved my sleep.

Thanks for the advice.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2018, 11:45:36 AM »
1. I switched from a mattress to a hammock.

2. I changed my exercise regimen.

3. I shut down my computer ~ 2 hours before bed.


^^^

These 3 changes have markedly improved my sleep.

Wow, you're the first and only person I know who sleeps in a hammock.  I'm glad to hear that this (and your other change in habits) has you sleeping a lot better!  :)

Cherry Lane

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2018, 11:13:09 AM »
Am I the first to report here that I'm sleeping less?  FIREd about 5 months ago.

I'm routinely waking up at 6am (varies between 545 and 630, but usually closer to 6), even though I've never been a morning person (My 645 alarm used to wake me up each workday morning).  Going to bed same time or later (for some reason I'm like a young child who resists going to bed - help?), waking up more during the night, and then the early wake up.  For a while I was going back to sleep for another hour, but now that isn't really working.

The good thing is that I don't have to get up early, so I'm enjoying laying in bed reading a book or the forums, then getting up between 8am and 9am.  Sometimes even 9am is difficult, so it's good that twice a week I have yoga at 945.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2018, 02:51:08 PM »
Am I the first to report here that I'm sleeping less?  FIREd about 5 months ago.

No, there were several.  Including the very first reply to the post.  :D

Quote
I'm routinely waking up at 6am (varies between 545 and 630, but usually closer to 6), even though I've never been a morning person (My 645 alarm used to wake me up each workday morning).  Going to bed same time or later (for some reason I'm like a young child who resists going to bed - help?), waking up more during the night, and then the early wake up.  For a while I was going back to sleep for another hour, but now that isn't really working.

There are lots of reasons you might be sleeping less.  It's possible you just don't need as much sleep to recover now that you're FIREd.  But it's also possible that a health condition and/or your habits are interfering with your sleep.  I'm neither a medical professional nor a sleep specialist, but I have dealt with insomnia in the recent past.  What has helped in my situation is:

- Don't be hot.  Our house is pretty hot in the summer.  As soon as I started sleeping with a window A/C in my room, my sleep improved drastically.  I've learned that I simply can't sleep well when the temperature is above 70 or so.  This is a bummer, and it's new.  I chalk it up to aging and possibly a medication I'm taking.

- Bed is for sleep only.  Ok, maybe some recreational activities as well.  But those would not include reading, watching TV, looking at your phone, browsing the forums, or sitting and thinking.  If you find yourself doing any of those things when you're in bed, get up and do them somewhere else.  Even if it's in the middle of the night.  Your brain will start to associate bed with sleeping only, and it will actually make you fall asleep easier.

- Go to bed and wake up at about the same time.  Actually I would say just go to bed at about the same time.  If you're FIREd, wake up whenever your body wakes you up.  It's all about habit and rhythm, and your brain will hopefully learn when bedtime is supposed to be.

Hikester

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Re: Do you sleep more (or less) post-fire?
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2018, 04:29:11 PM »
I would say I sleep more, but not too much more. I think the sleep is better too. What I really like is the ability to wake up earlier in summer and later in winter, with the seasons, as opposed to the exact same time every day. Itís more in line with what your body wants to do naturally.  I can stay up late knowing if I am tired the next day I can nap, though I am not a big napper.