Do you really spend "your number" in retirement?

[jimmyshutter]

I'm not retired yet but wanted to know people's experiences with their projected "number" pre-retirement to their actual number post-retirement. I know I've already hit my number but it keeps increasing all the time. I don't hate my job and it's actually quite easy and I get paid well. I'll never find another gig like the one I have so I'm staying until I feel like leaving which makes staying much easier. The problem is this number keeps increasing and I don't want it to get in the way when I actually dread going into work.

Number increased because I didn't want to live off of cheap food and to just scrape by and didn't want to live that way.
Number increased again because I wanted "fun money" in retirement.
Number stayed the same but actually increased because I wanted "x" amount put aside to pay off mortgage as I don't like to use my equity in my NW.
Increased again because of increased inflation.
Increased again because I also wanted "x" amount of years living expenses in case of a down market like these past few years.
Increased again because of house repairs that I want to perform before retiring even though I've already factored in enough expenses/year for this.

So even thought I have enough I still let that "number" play with my head. I have been trying to change my thought processes from "saving" to "spending" which actually is helping because it's taking away the power that money I think I need has had on me. I do believe I'll spend less than my "number" in retirement without even trying because I've estimated higher projected future expenses vs actual past expenses.

I'm wondering people's experiences are with this in real-life as I don't want to stay at work because I think my number needs to increase. Again, right now I'm good with my work but I don't want to stay if that changes just because I think I financially need to. I'm sure this has been brought up before but I'd still like to hear people's experiences with projected vs real spending in retirement.

[NotJen]

Do I spend "my number" in retirement?  I'm 4 years in, and not yet.

My number was $33k per year ($40k if I no longer had a paid-off house).  In a somewhat unplanned coincidence, I quit my career exactly when my NW hit $1 Million.  I had vague ideas of getting part-time work for health insurance, then realized the ACA could meet my needs and I didn't have to worry about continuing to work.  I've been spending $18-$20k per year since FIREing, way below my estimates, and feeling no reduction in my quality of life.  Lots of that is personality - saving is in my blood and I have simple wants.

I have taken on some work for fun (for very little profit), which helps my SORR and means I haven't had to sell any investments yet (my large "EF" that turned into cash on hand to spend first has covered everything).

My journal has lots of boring numbers.

[ixtap]

We are only semi retired, so not actually withdrawing at this point. This, his first full year with more time, DH spent more than ever. Even so, household spending was pretty much spot on target: between my ideal 3.5% and his looser 4%. There was just a large additional spending to help a friend who very much needed someone to give him a break.

Like you, as our savings grew beyond our initial goals, we started picturing new things we might do in the future. We now have enough that it will be feasible to upgrade our boat to something we wouldn't have even dreamed of a few years ago.

The nice thing about semi retirement has been that our spending only matters in so far as new habits could affect future spending. It isn't something we need to stress over while income still exceeds expenses, even if our savings rate has become closer to typical Americans than typical Mustachians.

[reeshau]

Nowhere near the number.  I view that planning number as an outer band for budgeting purposes.  There is no need to budget to spend more than or need or want--spending just to spend it?  You say you want travel,  but that takes planning.  And the longer it is, and more exotic / off the beaten path the destination is, the more planning it takes.  So, we only do so much planning.

We stumbled into retirement (laid off) two years early, but at our planned number.  Repatriated in May 2020, in the teeth of the pandemic.  Navigated both the real estate market and new car market successfully.  As I sit here today, our stache is up 30%, even having bought our house for cash (out of necessity).

So, do we inflate our lifestyle?  We didn't then, so why do it now?  We have increased our charity giving, and would do that tremendously if we got significant inheritance(s).  But coming on 4 years in, all assumptions seem to be holding, despite an environment that has been anything but steady.

[FIRE 20/20]

We've spent significantly less than our planned spending.  I FIRE'd April 2019, and spent significantly less each year except 2023.  We wanted to have plenty of fun money - meals out at restaurants, plenty of travel, extra in case the ACA was repealed, etc.  None of the really bad things (like the ACA going away) happened, and we also spent less on travel (due in large part to COVID) as well as spending less on food, concerts, and other entertainment activities.  We're both really happy spending most of our time at home and taking inexpensive trips to see family and friends around the country.  We also like figuring out how to cook meals at home that we otherwise would go to a restaurant for. 

In 2023 we actually are going to hit our planned spending number for the first time.  A bunch of things all happened at once, including many thousands going to a family member in need, major car repairs, and some other big-ticket replacement items.  It is comforting to know that we have tens of thousands unspent from the first few years and in a year with seemingly everything going wrong from a personal spending point of view we're just going to approach our initial planned spending number.     

[FIRE 20/20]

I don't like posting actual numbers online for some reason that I don't even understand, but I will say that we spent the following percentages of our planned spending each year:

2019 - 72%
2020 - 75%
2021 - 80%
2022 - 76%
2023 - 95-100% (TBD)

So if our budget was $40k in 2020, we actually spent $30k.  Or if our budget in 2021 was $100k, we actually spent $80k. 

And we're not generally being all that careful with our spending.  We avoid doing stupid things, but neither one of us feels like we "can't" spend on something we want.  We're just living the lives we want on less than we planned.

[startingout]

Would you mind sharing what you do that's both easy and pays well? I know you said it's unlikely to be replicable.

[jimmyshutter]

Thanks for the responses. I assumed people spent less but wasn't sure because some people have such large staches that I didn't know if they planned on higher spending in retirement. I see some are happy the way they live without the desire to spend more which is how I'll live also in regards to future spending.

I don't like posting actual numbers online for some reason that I don't even understand, but I will say that we spent the following percentages of our planned spending each year:

2019 - 72%
2020 - 75%
2021 - 80%
2022 - 76%
2023 - 95-100% (TBD)

So if our budget was $40k in 2020, we actually spent $30k.  Or if our budget in 2021 was $100k, we actually spent $80k. 

And we're not generally being all that careful with our spending.  We avoid doing stupid things, but neither one of us feels like we "can't" spend on something we want.  We're just living the lives we want on less than we planned.

This is interesting because when I project my future spending I automatically round up to give a more of a cushion. I'm sure I'll only be spending 70%-80% of what I will have budgeted. Right now I'm much less but I've trying to be more open to spending. Thank you

Would you mind sharing what you do that's both easy and pays well? I know you said it's unlikely to be replicable.

I work in healthcare (don't want to get into specifics) and I work for the government. I have worked private sector (hospitals) and it's a world of difference. That's not to say I don't do my job it's that there's not a lot to do.

[bownyboy]

Our spending is broadly split into two buckets.

The first are recurring fixed / known costs such as gas, electric, water, food, subscriptions etc and those have been pretty much spot on.

The second bucket is where our discretionary spending is, such as entertainment, socialising, alcohol, and traveling and that is way above what I was estimating. It's also very bumpy from month to month.

But saying that we knew that the first couple of years would be spendy as we have a backlog of bucket list trips that we want to do and once those are out of our system then things will settle down a bit.

At the moment we're having too much fun!

[GilesMM]

There is no number. Our spending is all over the place.

[Ron Scott]

If you budget for annual living expenses realistically, don’t bake-in a lot of contingencies, and don’t forget any important line items, you should spend very close to your budgeted amount in an average year. But that’s not the point.

The experience you shared with us about the changing amount of invested assets you want to live comfortably in retirement is honest and telling. The only constant in life is change. That is certainly true of our individual needs, desires, and interests.

A 30-year-old may think $XXXX is a perfect number to FIRE on. But when he retires at 45, and looks back at 50, he may be kicking himself.

Your intuition about future changes in your life seems solid to me. Trust yourself.

[deborah]

Before I retired 13 years ago, I worked out what I’d spent in the previous five years, took out work expenses, and used that as my number. For the first few years, I spent considerably less than I’d estimated. I now do something similar to brownyboy, and have two buckets like his. The first has never gone over. The second is discretionary, and I decide what I want to do that year, and use the money. Where I live, a minimum retirement income each year must be taken from your retirement stash. I’ve never taken more than the minimum. During the pandemic years this minimum was halved, so this year I have to take double what I’ve been satisfied with for the previous few years.

I never anticipated travelling during retirement, but the bug got me! However, travel can be as cheap as $6 a night camping in a national park, or as expensive as you want it to be. Since I’m just as happy in either situation, it’s really easy to keep within my number and to have amazing experiences.

[2sk22]

We are not fully retired since my wife is not working but I do keep track of our annual expenses fairly closely. Morningstar suggests that an SWR of 4% is ok again (see https://www.morningstar.com/retirement/good-news-safe-withdrawal-rates)

Our current expenses are just 50% of the SWR amount so to answer the OP's question, its very likely that we won't come close to spending our "number"

[Financial.Velociraptor]

I spitballed estimated spending at $3,000 per month the day I walked out of the office for the last time as that was similar to what I was spending while employed.  For 11 years, it has averaged about $2,200 a month.  With more time, I've been able to be more picky when shopping or try two places and comparison shop.  I need fewer conveniences.  I could go quite a bit lower by eating out less.  I don't care much for travel so that is an important consideration.

[Mr. Green]

We're now spending 10-20% more than our original number but that's entirely by choice, and driven by the fact that our stash is now between 2-3x what it was when I FIREd. This is entirely driven by the increased cost of housing over the last couple years. We could have stayed where we were with our $976 mortgage payment @ 3% but it's not the neighborhood we really wanted to be in. With any luck, interest rates will come down a bit over the next couple years and a refinance will bring us back in line with our original number.

[Greystache]

We retired almost 9 years ago with a stache of $1.5M plus a $100K fund for occasional big expenses like a new roof or replacement car. Our budget was $60K per year and we have never exceeded it or increased it for inflation. I have not run the numbers for this year yet, but I suspect we will be a little over $60K for the first time. We have only tapped the big expense fund once for $11.5K  to install solar electric panels on the roof. Those have already paid for themselves.  After 9 years of spending and very conservative investing, our stache is now at $1.8M.

[FLBiker]

We retired almost 9 years ago with a stache of $1.5M plus a $100K fund for occasional big expenses like a new roof or replacement car. Our budget was $60K per year and we have never exceeded it or increased it for inflation. I have not run the numbers for this year yet, but I suspect we will be a little over $60K for the first time. We have only tapped the big expense fund once for $11.5K  to install solar electric panels on the roof. Those have already paid for themselves.  After 9 years of spending and very conservative investing, our stache is now at $1.8M.

Thanks for this!  It's reassuring to read, as these as basically exactly our numbers.

[Metalcat]

If you budget for annual living expenses realistically, don’t bake-in a lot of contingencies, and don’t forget any important line items, you should spend very close to your budgeted amount in an average year.

This has never been true for me. Not everyone's lives are consistent or predictable.

[Cranky]

I think what you spend before you retire is a pretty good indicator of what you’ll spend after you retire unless you make some major change. Knocking $25 off your grocery bill isn’t going to make all that much difference.

[Villanelle]

If you budget for annual living expenses realistically, don’t bake-in a lot of contingencies, and don’t forget any important line items, you should spend very close to your budgeted amount in an average year. But that’s not the point.

The experience you shared with us about the changing amount of invested assets you want to live comfortably in retirement is honest and telling. The only constant in life is change. That is certainly true of our individual needs, desires, and interests.

A 30-year-old may think $XXXX is a perfect number to FIRE on. But when he retires at 45, and looks back at 50, he may be kicking himself.

Your intuition about future changes in your life seems solid to me. Trust yourself.

How do you find "realistically"?  I really have no idea how often we will want to travel, what hobbies we might develop, or other factors that will have a huge bearing on our expenses.  I mean, sure, if we budget $40k, we could just force ourselves to stay at $40k, but I don't want my R life to be that constrained.  If I want an extra vacation or DH decides he wants to take guitar lessons at $5000/year, we want to be able to say yes to that.  Or perhaps we will end up growing a ton of fruits and veggies and our grocery spending will drop dramatically (and more than our hobby budget increases, and we will realize that we have little desire to vacation, now that vacation no longer means "escape from work". Does that mean we didn't budget realistically?  To me, it means that we aren't quite sure what retirement will look like. 

[secondcor521]

Short answer:  No, not anywhere close.

Long answer:

My starting goal was 25x current spending after adjusting for things that would change in retirement like taxes and healthcare.  Original, I know.  I figured I would be content with my current lifestyle plus not working, which has turned out to be true.

I hit that 25x point about 10 years ago.  Work was still worthwhile, so I kept working.  Like you, I was paid well and the job was relatively easy.

Then circumstances at the job changed.  I couldn't make it work any more, so I FIREd.  That was 8 years ago.

I basically continue to spend today about the same amount as what I spent then in nominal terms.  If you account for inflation, I somehow manage to spend less in real terms and still lead the same lifestyle.  Two reasons, probably:  (1) I don't need to spend as a response to stress anymore because the stress is mostly gone and I have learned better ways to manage stress, and (2) I have more time and can use that time to optimize my spending.

Over the past decade, my net worth has tripled.  Most of that was market returns, some was a side gig I picked up, some was a small inheritance, and some was Social Security benefits going up over time.

Between working 2 years past FI, net worth tripling, flat spending, being 10 years older, and some strategic family gifting that's now happening, my net WR% is 0.63%.

[Ron Scott]

If you budget for annual living expenses realistically, don’t bake-in a lot of contingencies, and don’t forget any important line items, you should spend very close to your budgeted amount in an average year. But that’s not the point.

The experience you shared with us about the changing amount of invested assets you want to live comfortably in retirement is honest and telling. The only constant in life is change. That is certainly true of our individual needs, desires, and interests.

A 30-year-old may think $XXXX is a perfect number to FIRE on. But when he retires at 45, and looks back at 50, he may be kicking himself.

Your intuition about future changes in your life seems solid to me. Trust yourself.

How do you find "realistically"?  I really have no idea how often we will want to travel, what hobbies we might develop, or other factors that will have a huge bearing on our expenses.  I mean, sure, if we budget $40k, we could just force ourselves to stay at $40k, but I don't want my R life to be that constrained.  If I want an extra vacation or DH decides he wants to take guitar lessons at $5000/year, we want to be able to say yes to that.  Or perhaps we will end up growing a ton of fruits and veggies and our grocery spending will drop dramatically (and more than our hobby budget increases, and we will realize that we have little desire to vacation, now that vacation no longer means "escape from work". Does that mean we didn't budget realistically?  To me, it means that we aren't quite sure what retirement will look like.

Interesting. I create a budget around the beginning of the year and pay no attention to it until the end of the year, just to see how it went, and I have no problem coming close, even though I don’t focus on it during the year.

I think people use a number of techniques to get at the expenses you are referring to.

The most popular one is assuming that your invested assets, from which you withdraw your normal annual living expenses, are lower than they really are, which puts some flex in the system. You can buy a new car, weather a health crisis, travel, or take expensive guitar lessons with that flex.

Other people will add a separate line item for extraordinary items they intend to buy during that year, which gives them a solid budget that just happens to vary year by year.

I’m not sure what you were looking for, but there’s not a lot of magic here.

——

In any event, all this talk of budgets is kind of besides the point, because the real issue is simply having enough money to support yourself as you would like to live once you are retired— and recognizing that if you retire early, there is a good chance your interests and needs may change in the 2nd half of your life. Saving a little extra money before you retire to handle potential changes like that makes a lot of sense to me.

[spartana]

My expenses ended up being much lower than I had planned by a fairly large amount - about 50% less. That mostly came from planned discretionary spending being lower as I had thought I'd need more to fund my "fun stuff" but found I didn't.

[deborah]

My expenses ended up being much lower than I had planned by a fairly large amount - about 50% less. That mostly came from planned discretionary spending being lower as I had thought I'd need more to fund my "fun stuff" but found I didn't.

Yes! Me too.

Like me, everyone I've talked to who's been retired for a while has spent less than they expected to in retirement, and has done different things in retirement than they thought. Plus, if you look at the simulators, if your stash is working out, you tend to have loads more money after a few years than you ever dreamt. Saving extra for later appears to be overkill.

[FIRE 20/20]

My expenses ended up being much lower than I had planned by a fairly large amount - about 50% less. That mostly came from planned discretionary spending being lower as I had thought I'd need more to fund my "fun stuff" but found I didn't.

Yes! Me too.

Like me, everyone I've talked to who's been retired for a while has spent less than they expected to in retirement, and has done different things in retirement than they thought. Plus, if you look at the simulators, if your stash is working out, you tend to have loads more money after a few years than you ever dreamt. Saving extra for later appears to be overkill.

Exactly.  There are some extra expenses that I wouldn't have imagined (a piano and piano lessons being the largest additions) but we're spending a lot less on other things like tickets to sporting events, international travel, going out to eat, and video games.   There are a lot of things we thought we might want to do for entertainment, but playing music, reading library books, hanging out with family and friends, volunteering, hiking, and other inexpensive things have been more entertaining and fulfilling than expected so we don't need to spend to stave off boredom.  Of course everyone is different, but like you most of my FIREd friends aren't spending as much in these categories as they expected.  We're spending less than our planned FIRE expenses, yet our 'stache is approaching double 25x that initial planned expense number.  The way things are going we're going to have a very good problem to deal with when we are hit with RMDs. 

[Ron Scott]

My expenses ended up being much lower than I had planned by a fairly large amount - about 50% less. That mostly came from planned discretionary spending being lower as I had thought I'd need more to fund my "fun stuff" but found I didn't.

Yes! Me too.

Like me, everyone I've talked to who's been retired for a while has spent less than they expected to in retirement, and has done different things in retirement than they thought. Plus, if you look at the simulators, if your stash is working out, you tend to have loads more money after a few years than you ever dreamt. Saving extra for later appears to be overkill.

It’s difficult to compare the tendency among many to over-estimate future expenses and underspend relative to their ability—with those having robust FI and lifestyle flexibility.

I think there was a recent study by New York Life insurance company that found almost 75% of retirees withdrew living expenses only from their interest & dividends, and more than half didn’t even spend that. Hardly anyone decides to retire because they hit a “number” or does the 4% rule. It’s just not a thing.

I don’t think retirees as a group consider themselves “financially independent”. Most of them have modest means and spend cautiously.

[Fru-Gal]

I don’t really know how much I’m spending but it feels like a lot, but also manageable. I look at my accessible investments (not 401k/IRA) and go, is this enough to last another 1-3 years? So far it is. When those buckets are empty, I’ll either try to develop new income sources or make a plan to get access to some of my tax-advantaged accounts.

[NoEllipsis]

Seems like the majority of people are saying they spent less than they expected. It sounds like a handful of those people simply planned for more discretionary spending than they ended up using. But my perspective is different, I knew I would spend more money post FI on entertainment than I was while I was working, I planned for that. I didn't do as much fun stuff because I was always burnt out from long hours at work and post FI that was no longer the case.

Here's a few things I found, my biggest fixed expenses all increased more than I expected at no fault of my own. Housing costs increased for me, I live in a co-op of about 250 units, there was a fire in one of the buildings where 6 units were destroyed and my HOA fees increased by 20% one year, then 11% the next. Over the span of 2 years that came out to ~$350 increase per month.

In the past few years groceries have increased more than expected. I think everyone should be able to relate to that. Gas prices also increased. Some people drive less in retirement since they don't have to commute to a job, but I drive a similar amount as to when I was working. My job was close so it wasn't a lot of driving, and now I drive to get to nice hiking trails instead.

Don't plan on spending less than you think you will, you could hit a rough few years out the gate and realize your plan doesn't work out. I'm spending more than I expected but I still planned to have more than I needed in case something I didn't foresee happened. I didn't plan for a war in Ukraine to spike gas prices, I didn't plan for Covid to throw off supply chains and mess with grocery prices for so long. I didn't plan for a fire next door to increase my housing costs. You really never know what might happen.

[Ozlady]

I ended my (or rather DH)'s 3rd year of retirement yesterday:)

Starting my 4th year today..

Our annual spending ranges from 100K to 120K per year...sounds big especially when we do not have a house mortagage..

But included inside is 30K of international travel per year and lots of gifting and  i still have 3 kids living with us...

But my planned retirement strategy is that i want to spend more between 60 and 70 years and then scale down as our health slows down...so mine is not a level spending strategy but a kinda stepped up/stepped down strategy...

Sidenote: our net worth increased by 21% since retirement , something which kinda was not what we expected (but grateful for:) .... so we feel very comfortable with our level of spending in the past 3 years...

Yes, the old adage holds true...u can't buy back  Time...and we had a blast in the last 3 years:)

Retirement Rocks!

[bmjohnson35]

We definitely had some serious spending creep this year, but we had one large unplanned expense and bought a used truck. Even so, we still only spent around 1.5% of our investments in 2023. This percentage is calculated against our investments and does not include any non-investment income. I use the total of all our investments as the base, even so we don't touch our retirement accounts yet. Spouse collects SS and she works around 16 hrs a week in the bakery of local grocery store. 

I used the 4% as a yard stick when I calculated our "number," but always expected to spend less and had contingencies. I didn't expect spouse to go back to work pt, but she enjoys it and they let her take time off whenever she wants.

The truck purchase this year was a want and not a need, so it was fully by choice.  If that had not occurred, we would have been much closer to target.

I will be eligible for a modest pension income in a year or so and SS in around 8 yrs. 

As for your base question, we hit right on our planned spending in 2020 & 2021, exceeded it by a few thousand in 2022 and went $10k over in 2023.  Aside from our plans to sell/buy our home in 2024, I expect our base spending to fall back inline in 2024. Depending on where we move next year, spouse may have to quit her job, but that income isn't significant anyways. 

My wife worries about spending and sweats every dollar spent and I have learned to spend a bit more freely.  If you're debt free and have low cost of living, it's easy to live large on relatively little.   

[Loren Ver]

Retired in 2019, we are kinda all over the board.  We retired pretty lean but investments are doing good.  Our day to day costs are still low, so good habits abound.

Things that have been throwing us off:
Unexpected health issues and the continuing repercussions.  DH had retinal detachments (early 40s), one in Nov and one in Jan a few years ago, so not even in the same insurance year.  Boo.  This also means lots of follow up appointments, and new glasses, and prescription drugs etc etc.  Costs, but manageable.

Charitable opportunities, sometimes you just gotta say yes.  I'm one of the richest beings to ever live on the planet and intend to act like it :).

Helping out family, my mom is getting older and sometimes I just want to go look, see, or do with her.  Even though she always says "I'm fine."  Same with brother who is living with her and taking care of her. 

At the same time, these are also reasons why we FIREd.  So we could do life better.

Loren

[Treedream]

We definitely had some serious spending creep this year, but we had one large unplanned expense and bought a used truck. Even so, we still only spent around 1.5% of our investments in 2023. This percentage is calculated against our investments and does not include any non-investment income. I use the total of all our investments as the base, even so we don't touch our retirement accounts yet. Spouse collects SS and she works around 16 hrs a week in the bakery of local grocery store. 

I used the 4% as a yard stick when I calculated our "number," but always expected to spend less and had contingencies. I didn't expect spouse to go back to work pt, but she enjoys it and they let her take time off whenever she wants.

The truck purchase this year was a want and not a need, so it was fully by choice.  If that had not occurred, we would have been much closer to target.

I will be eligible for a modest pension income in a year or so and SS in around 8 yrs. 

As for your base question, we hit right on our planned spending in 2020 & 2021, exceeded it by a few thousand in 2022 and went $10k over in 2023.  Aside from our plans to sell/buy our home in 2024, I expect our base spending to fall back inline in 2024. Depending on where we move next year, spouse may have to quit her job, but that income isn't significant anyways. 

My wife worries about spending and sweats every dollar spent and I have learned to spend a bit more freely.  If you're debt free and have low cost of living, it's easy to live large on relatively little.

Your message suggests that you sweat spending at 1.5% of the investment accounts. Could you explain this? Cause a 1.5% withdrawal rate is really low and you can definitely afford to spend more on wants. Why are you anxious?

[bmjohnson35]

I didn't intend to convey that, but we do have concern about selling and buying a home next year.  We will be moving from a townhouse to a single family home and I'm not sure how much we may need to pull out of the investments to make up the difference. We also don't know what our new cost of living will be. We are both somewhat frugal by nature and we live comfortably at our present spend rate, which includes a healthy amount of travel. She has more of the "American Dream" notion of what size/style house we need to buy, where I could live in something modest and be completely content. My wife also worries about running out of money and I can't seem to make her completely comfortable about it.  She still buys lottery tickets and I feel like we have already won the lottery. We have always been on the same page up until I decided to retire early.  I wasn't secretive about it.  I suspect she didn't really believe I would pull the trigger.  Almost four years later and she still thinks I'm too young to be retired. 

One final note:  I'm not convinced 4% is a completely safe burn rate to ensure we won't run out of money.  It's a common point of reference based on a theory, but far from an absolute.  Regardless, I don't see any reason to spend more than necessary.

[2Birds1Stone]

It's probably still too early to tell......

We're wrapping up our 7th month of FIRE.

Pre-covid and the inflationary aftermath I always projected that our core expenses in FIRE would be ~$36k (in 2019 dollars), as a fairly frugal and creative DINK couple. When the time came to pull the plug in May of '23 the purchasing power of $36k eroded but we made up for it in skills/other forms of capital.

There was still a lot of doom and gloom in May, we ran our FIRE numbers through all the standard calculators (cFIREsim, FIRECALC, ERN SWR Workbook, Rich Dead Broke, etc) and based on our asset allocation and timeline (60 years), we settled on a spending target of $48,000/yr which represented a ~3.42% WR on our investable assets.

Seven months in.....we've spent $19,000 or $32.6K/yr annualized.......far below even our conservative "target" of $48k/yr.

Now all it would take at these leanFIRE levels of spending is one or two larger (5-figure) expenses in the first couple of years to potentially throw us off course.....so I won't claim victory yet........but we're also young enough (mid-30's) to course correct very easily because even small amounts of income improve the math dramatically at these spending levels.

[Retire-Canada]

I based my FIRE budget on my actual spending for a few years prior to pulling the trigger. I've been spending approximately that amount after FIRE. If I have more than normal non-discretionary spending I cut back a bit on any extras and vice versa. I don't don't budget/track spending in detail, but my financial radar seems to keep me on track pretty well. My life has not changed a ton pre/post-FIRE. So projecting costs wasn't hard.

[mspym]

We jumped without having more than a guesstimate of what our expenses would be. We knew what we are hoping to spend but since we moved countries to a paid-off house and the boys were moved out, none of the expense planning I had previously done was relevant. So we are keeping an eye on the quarterly expenses until we have a good sense of what this life will cost us.

[Metta]

<Sigh> I am not the Mustachian poster child. I've been FIREd since December 2016, and I'm working on our budget this week for 2024 so I've actually recently looked at this.

2017: About 50 percent of our number
2018: About 40 percent of our number
2019: About 45 percent of our number
2020: (Covid): About 38 percent of our number
2021: (Covid continued): About 40 percent of our number
2022: (First year in New Mexico, bought and renovated a house): 180 percent of our number. Eeeek!!! OMG! WE WILL DIE IN DEBT! NO ONE WILL LOVE US! WE ARE CONSUMER CLOWNS!
2023: (Continuing the renovation and living in a more expensive place): 110 percent of our number. NEED TO GET THIS BACK UNDER CONTROL!
2024: Goal for this year is 90 percent of our number.

So there you have it. We will get things back down. That's why I'm pouring over spreadsheets this week and setting up goals. Your number will fluctuate. The point of FIRE is not perfect compliance with a number. It's balancing things for a good, independent life that you can afford over the long term.

[bacchi]

We've withdrawn almost exactly what the VPW Retirement Worksheet states that we can withdraw. This year, we should be within a few hundred dollars of that number.

[tj]

Increased again because I also wanted "x" amount of years living expenses in case of a down market like these past few years.

Down market past few years? My portfolio is higher than ever!

[Metalcat]

I ended my (or rather DH)'s 3rd year of retirement yesterday:)

Starting my 4th year today..

Our annual spending ranges from 100K to 120K per year...sounds big especially when we do not have a house mortagage..

But included inside is 30K of international travel per year and lots of gifting and  i still have 3 kids living with us...

But my planned retirement strategy is that i want to spend more between 60 and 70 years and then scale down as our health slows down...so mine is not a level spending strategy but a kinda stepped up/stepped down strategy...

Sidenote: our net worth increased by 21% since retirement , something which kinda was not what we expected (but grateful for:) .... so we feel very comfortable with our level of spending in the past 3 years...
Yes, the old adage holds true...u can't buy back  Time...and we had a blast in the last 3 years:)

Retirement Rocks!

I hear people say this a lot, that they expect to spend less on travel as their health is impacted over time, but as someone with very serious health issues, they don't reduce my desire to travel AT ALL, they just make traveling more expensive because I can't avail myself of a lot of cheap options.

I've worked with a lot of seniors and many reduce their travel largely because they've traveled enough and it can get kind of dull and feel like a hassle after awhile. But not my family members, they are still travel quite a bit in their senior years.

So don't expect to spend less on travel just because your body gets less cooperative. In fact, expect to spend more. The last thing you want to do when your body limits your options is to limit them more with financial constraints.

If you think you can travel enough to get travel out of your system, then cool, but if travel is truly something that brings richness to your life, it would be risky to anticipate that you'll just not want to do it because of health.

For me, personally, my health prevents me from having interest in flying somewhere for 7-10 days because I need a lot of rest, so a vacation where I'm paying per day is suboptimal and flying is hard on me. So I prefer to go to places for much longer and have accommodations for months at a time.

I impulse bought a second house in an a very exotic location just so that I would have a place to travel to, and that was while my femur was broken and I could barely walk even with crutches.

Having health problems can actually make it *more* important to live life as richly as possible.

[mistymoney]

I don’t really know how much I’m spending but it feels like a lot, but also manageable. I look at my accessible investments (not 401k/IRA) and go, is this enough to last another 1-3 years? So far it is. When those buckets are empty, I’ll either try to develop new income sources or make a plan to get access to some of my tax-advantaged accounts.

I worry about that gap! one reason I put off till 2025. how far away are you from 59.5?

[deborah]

I agree to a certain extent with metalcat.

My parents were very much into travel. When they could, no longer drive long distances, they went on tours. When dad stopped being able to negotiate a bus, they went on river cruises. When dad had difficulty at all the stops, they went on ocean cruises, including a round the world cruise. When dad died at 92, my 90 year old mother decided to get a Winnebago. Fortunately or unfortunately, this was soon after the pandemic started and she couldn’t get one for more than a year. By that stage, she’d realised that it would be too difficult for her to negotiate with a walker. However, every so often, she gets one of her children to take her on a holiday somewhere.

However, as you get older, being part of a community becomes more and more important. It’s easier to do this if you’re not spending your life travelling. Staying in one place, or spending your time bouncing between a few different locations, like metalcat is, makes it much easier to build your community.

[Metalcat]

I agree to a certain extent with metalcat.

My parents were very much into travel. When they could, no longer drive long distances, they went on tours. When dad stopped being able to negotiate a bus, they went on river cruises. When dad had difficulty at all the stops, they went on ocean cruises, including a round the world cruise. When dad died at 92, my 90 year old mother decided to get a Winnebago. Fortunately or unfortunately, this was soon after the pandemic started and she couldn’t get one for more than a year. By that stage, she’d realised that it would be too difficult for her to negotiate with a walker. However, every so often, she gets one of her children to take her on a holiday somewhere.

However, as you get older, being part of a community becomes more and more important. It’s easier to do this if you’re not spending your life travelling. Staying in one place, or spending your time bouncing between a few different locations, like metalcat is, makes it much easier to build your community.

What I do is actually live in multiple locations, plenty of community in both.

[Villanelle]

I agree to a certain extent with metalcat.

My parents were very much into travel. When they could, no longer drive long distances, they went on tours. When dad stopped being able to negotiate a bus, they went on river cruises. When dad had difficulty at all the stops, they went on ocean cruises, including a round the world cruise. When dad died at 92, my 90 year old mother decided to get a Winnebago. Fortunately or unfortunately, this was soon after the pandemic started and she couldn’t get one for more than a year. By that stage, she’d realised that it would be too difficult for her to negotiate with a walker. However, every so often, she gets one of her children to take her on a holiday somewhere.

However, as you get older, being part of a community becomes more and more important. It’s easier to do this if you’re not spending your life travelling. Staying in one place, or spending your time bouncing between a few different locations, like metalcat is, makes it much easier to build your community.

My parents are in their 80s.  They still travel internationally, usually for 9-12 days, several times a year.  More often than not, they travel with friends.  The two of them, plus 1-3 other couples.  Sometimes we are able to coordinate so my sibling and/or I, along with our spouses are able to join them.  So for them, traveling has become part of their community and community-building. 

[Metalcat]

I agree to a certain extent with metalcat.

My parents were very much into travel. When they could, no longer drive long distances, they went on tours. When dad stopped being able to negotiate a bus, they went on river cruises. When dad had difficulty at all the stops, they went on ocean cruises, including a round the world cruise. When dad died at 92, my 90 year old mother decided to get a Winnebago. Fortunately or unfortunately, this was soon after the pandemic started and she couldn’t get one for more than a year. By that stage, she’d realised that it would be too difficult for her to negotiate with a walker. However, every so often, she gets one of her children to take her on a holiday somewhere.

However, as you get older, being part of a community becomes more and more important. It’s easier to do this if you’re not spending your life travelling. Staying in one place, or spending your time bouncing between a few different locations, like metalcat is, makes it much easier to build your community.

My parents are in their 80s.  They still travel internationally, usually for 9-12 days, several times a year.  More often than not, they travel with friends.  The two of them, plus 1-3 other couples.  Sometimes we are able to coordinate so my sibling and/or I, along with our spouses are able to join them.  So for them, traveling has become part of their community and community-building.

Exactly. I have a friend in her 70s who travels extensively with a rather disabled friend of hers in her 80s. They take trips with various different single older woman friends, but always together since the younger acts as an aide for the older one. Travel is a huge part of their community with friends.

My whole point is that people shouldn't assume that reduced health means less interest in travel. The world is still super interesting and just as beautiful to see for those of us with medical issues.

[reeshau]

My in-laws spent 6-9 months out of he year in their RV.  He's now 81, and she turns 80 next year, so they're slowing down.

They are currently on a tour of South America, culminating in a cruise to Antarctica.  It's their fourth time.  Next summer will be her 80th birthday party in Alaska for a couple months, where BIL lives.

I hope I'm able to match their trajectory as they slow down.

To be fair, they both have a few long-term health conditions, and both DW and I are amazed that they have kept going as they are.  But travel is both important to them, and something they are used to--so, they don't have delusions of idealized travel; they know the ups and downs, as they have traveled extensively their whole lives.  They also plan 3 years in advance.

[BFGirl]

I'm seven months in.  So far I am spending exactly what my budget says I can spend.  We will see how it goes in the future.

[Cranky]

Yeah, my in laws were traveling to Europe into their 80s because they loved it. There are lots of travel groups set up largely for older people who are not wanting to sprint up mountains.

I do not love anything at all about travel. I’m willing to do a little because dh wants to, but I’d rather not.

[mistymoney]

Yeah, my in laws were traveling to Europe into their 80s because they loved it. There are lots of travel groups set up largely for older people who are not wanting to sprint up mountains.

what about old people who do want to sprint up the mountains?

[Villanelle]

Yeah, my in laws were traveling to Europe into their 80s because they loved it. There are lots of travel groups set up largely for older people who are not wanting to sprint up mountains.

what about old people who do want to sprint up the mountains?

My dad scuba dived (scuba dove?) until his 70th birthday.  He decided to give it up, so we went on one last family vacation for his final dive.  He taught my sister and me to dive (well, got us certified) as soon as we were old enough, and diving was a special thing he shared with us.  (Mom wasn't interested, but was happy to sunbath on the boat while we dove).  So many special family memories involved diving and dive vacations.  And he lasted until 70.  Pretty darn good.