Author Topic: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?  (Read 43834 times)

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2018, 06:55:10 PM »
Not FIREd yet, but PTF, as I keep putting it off. There have been good reasons & less good reasons, but somewhere deep down, I know i have some real work (read: personal work) to accomplish when I do finally FIRE. And, @RedmondStash - lived & worked in Redmond for quite some time before moving to the Bay Area. Much of what you & @Malkynn really resonated.

I really appreciate you sharing (and, the corresponding advice), as it's super helpful for those of us on the edge to have a realistic perspective about what to expect when they finally pull the plug.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2018, 07:00:23 PM »
But your (financial) life really can be saved through Mustachianism, no faith necessary!

Touché!  :)

Though for most of us there is still faith involved in making this all work.  Faith in the markets performing similarly to how they did in the past, etc.

RedmondStash

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2018, 10:53:38 PM »
Not FIREd yet, but PTF, as I keep putting it off. There have been good reasons & less good reasons, but somewhere deep down, I know i have some real work (read: personal work) to accomplish when I do finally FIRE. And, @RedmondStash - lived & worked in Redmond for quite some time before moving to the Bay Area. Much of what you & @Malkynn really resonated.

I really appreciate you sharing (and, the corresponding advice), as it's super helpful for those of us on the edge to have a realistic perspective about what to expect when they finally pull the plug.

This is good to hear. The truth is that I was a bit reluctant to start this downer thread, either to rain on happy FIREd people's parades or to get unwanted facepunches from folks thinking I was just whining. But the responses have been so empathetic and supportive. It's been a relief.

I'm sure the FIRE experience varies for everyone, but it is kinda nice to know that it can take more than the standard 6 months to shake the dust off and settle down to a life of beaches, exotic travel, hikes, and bliss. :)

And yeah, for some of us, there probably is a great deal of work to do, not just to transition to a new lifestyle, but to recuperate from the old one. It can be uncomfortable. But it's necessary work, just like you know when you sit too long in one position and your leg falls asleep, you're going to have to get up and face those pins and needles eventually. Can't be avoided, worth going through to get to the other side, and you know it won't last forever. But wow how it sucks while it's happening.

Seems like patience and non-judgmental acceptance are the keys.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2018, 07:05:15 AM »
Except it’s the same for almost everyone. Everyone who retires is counting on the markets to behave, unless they have a too-big-to-fail stache, but those people are extremely rare. 

I would argue that most Mustachians retire with more money saved than the average joe who works much longer. Far more people here retire with too-big-to-fail staches than I see in real life, and my social circle is entirely made up of very high earners in the 1-5% of incomes, but their expenses are insane.

I would also argue that mustachians are far more critical of the math and assumptions of retirement than average joes who have probably never ever thought much past the concept that saving 1M would make them pretty comfortable in retirement. Average joe operates on faith that *if* they were to ever save enough that they would be fine. Mustachians try to analyze to death largely arbitrary numbers that they’ve made up for themselves because many actually *can’t* find the faith.
 
Sure, it requires a bit of balls to pull the trigger early and voluntarily walk away young from further, relatively predictable income because you’ve already saved more than average joe could save by 70, but that’s not faith.

I don’t see much faith here on the boards period. I see a lot of OMY, meticulous analysis of SWR, sequence of return risk, thorough criticism of anyones optimism about being able to rejoin the workforce if necessary, etc, etc.
I see very few, if any, people saying “I’ll have more money saved by 45 than most people by 70, I’m sure I’ll be fine, and I’m not worried about having to generate money in the future if needed”

Personally, I do operate on faith, I have little concern or regard for the numbers and absolutely no concrete intention of leaving work altogether beyond knowing that I will get pickier and pickier about the projects I choose to take on, and probably care less and less about compensation.

When I read MMM’s blog, it wasn’t the escape from the grind that appealed to me, it was the life that he built for himself and the caliber of projects he was able to participate in: the world class blog, international travel and meeting with like minded people, community projects, etc, etc. I wanted that life, and I wanted it NOW.

That’s what I’ve chosen to have faith in.
I’ve decided that life is more than grinding until you can afford to stop. It’s about what happens when you stop grinding, so I just stopped. Pete did it with a giant FIRE sized safety net, and I did it with a mortgage-sized student debt. FIRE isn’t a prerequisite to starting living your best life, it just makes it easier and less scary.

FIRE doesn’t make anyone happy or give anyone a better life. It simply helps with fostering the conditions necessary for building a happy and healthy life, but it isn’t necessary, it’s isn’t a prerequisite.

FIRE is just a change of state within the life you’ve chosen to build for yourself.

Thanks for the thoughtful post -- I enjoyed reading it, and I appreciate your perspective and attitude toward FIRE.  And point taken that 'mustachianism' is not simply the pursuit of FIRE in a vacuum.

My comment about faith WRT FIRE was somewhat off-the-cuff, but I still think there's some truth to it.  Your points about OMY, SWR, SORR, etc., don't invalidate the claim that there's faith involved.  To me it's not a stretch to say that debates about SWR reflect shades of gray in the spectrum of faith in the continuity and long-term predictability of markets.  But I admit this is a FIRE-centric issue, and I'm not really invested in this enough to dig in and argue any further.  :)

smoghat

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2018, 08:40:29 AM »
There was a great article in the NY Times a while back about this dream -- it's pretty universal -- which was news to me. I've had the recurring dream that I show up for a college math exam after not having been to any classes all semester, and my graduating is dependent on my passing this exam. Holy shit, it freaks me the fuck out and I wake up with my heart racing every time!

That actually happened to me! And I got an F. Or maybe a D, I don’t remember. Luckily, I had more than enough credits to graduate and I was out of there. Never had a use for Calculus in real life. I’m sure it’s useful for some folks, but it’s not as useful as programming. Makes no sense to me why the math lovers get to impose their ideals on the rest of us.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2018, 09:33:28 AM »
I would also argue that mustachians are far more critical of the math and assumptions of retirement than average joes who have probably never ever thought much past the concept that saving 1M would make them pretty comfortable in retirement. Average joe operates on faith that *if* they were to ever save enough that they would be fine. Mustachians try to analyze to death largely arbitrary numbers that they’ve made up for themselves because many actually *can’t* find the faith.

Actually I don't think that's the right characterization for Average Joe.  Average Joe saves very little (if anything) and doesn't know anything about investments.  I strongly doubt he has any knowledge about historical market returns -- not to mention any specific belief that investing in the market will provide a return above inflation (inflation?  what's that?).  The most detailed thought Average Joe has given to saving is "If I save some money, I will have it later."  Even then, there's a decent chance Average Joe cashes out his 401k when switching jobs and spends it on a new car.

So no, I don't think Average Joe has knowledge of or faith in the markets, the former being a prerequisite for the latter.  Mustachian Moe has extensive knowledge of the markets, and might struggle (Savings Rate, SORR, SWR -- OMY!) with his faith that market investment will lead to FI salvation or an early enough RE.

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2018, 12:11:03 AM »
From my experience, helping others in need might broaden the OP's focus from their traumatic work past (inward-focus) to their current power to help others (outward-focus). My favorite is hospice-volunteering, but they may prefer schools or soup kitchens or 3-legged-dog conventions. Making new, meaningful connections with others, in which you've maybe made a positive difference, is a powerful antidepressant. Won't take away trauma, but may help right-size it within a larger sense of the world.

dude

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2018, 06:31:21 AM »
There was a great article in the NY Times a while back about this dream -- it's pretty universal -- which was news to me. I've had the recurring dream that I show up for a college math exam after not having been to any classes all semester, and my graduating is dependent on my passing this exam. Holy shit, it freaks me the fuck out and I wake up with my heart racing every time!

That actually happened to me! And I got an F. Or maybe a D, I don’t remember. Luckily, I had more than enough credits to graduate and I was out of there. Never had a use for Calculus in real life. I’m sure it’s useful for some folks, but it’s not as useful as programming. Makes no sense to me why the math lovers get to impose their ideals on the rest of us.

HAHAHA!  Wow! This made me laugh out loud, thanks!

Bird In Hand

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2018, 06:40:26 AM »
Faith doesn’t take any level of knowledge. In fact, often less knowledge is better, lol

Mustachians question this shit to death because they know too much to just sit back and blindly accept on faith that a bunch of money = no worries.

IMO there's a big difference between "faith" (trusting, or believing strongly in something) and "blind faith" (believing something without any evidence, or even in contradiction to the evidence).

When I talk about Mustachians having faith in markets, I'm using the former definition.  Most of us have reasonably high confidence that markets will beat inflation and help us FIRE happily ever after.  All the questioning and doubts and backup plans we make are not incompatible with faith.

I still contend that Average Joe doesn't really have faith in markets, because Average Joe doesn't even have a concept of what "markets" is.  I could be wrong about Average Joe.  I don't think I know Average Joe in real life, so I have to guess about his mindset based on some skimpy evidence, like statistics about retirement savings, the number of Coors Lite beer cans I see tossed on the side of the road, etc.

By the way, this all got started when another poster used religious language to describe his mustachian proselytizing:

This is awesome!  I have two converts in my personal circle.  It can be kind of frustrating that you want to share the MMM gospel and people look at you like the Jehovah's Witness or Mormons at the front door.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2018, 10:25:47 AM »
I'm beginning to think the people who are finding it difficult to transition have something fundamentally different about their wiring than those that didn't.  Before I went FIRE, I had a supervisor who took a more or less traditional age retirement.  He introduced me to a concept he called the "Give-A-Shit-O-Meter".  Basically, once you don't need the money anymore, you have a lot fewer fucks to give regarding work issues.  I was getting close to my number and it was an 'a-ha' moment realizing why I was having increasing difficulty mustering up any pride in my work and why I was the only one who wasn't getting anxious during quarter end closes. 

I've spoken with other early retirees and other people who are getting close at various FI themed meetups and the general consensus is that the Give-A-Shit-O-Meter is a real thing for most people.  But clearly, there is a subset of the population that remains emotionally invested in a career they no longer have a need for.

Am on track here?  Serious question to those of you who are struggling.  Is there a component of "fuck it" to your attitude that is sometimes overridden by emotional issues or do you still care deeply through and through?  Trying to understand your dilemma in hopes I can help.

RedmondStash

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2018, 11:08:35 AM »
I'm beginning to think the people who are finding it difficult to transition have something fundamentally different about their wiring than those that didn't.  Before I went FIRE, I had a supervisor who took a more or less traditional age retirement.  He introduced me to a concept he called the "Give-A-Shit-O-Meter".  Basically, once you don't need the money anymore, you have a lot fewer fucks to give regarding work issues.  I was getting close to my number and it was an 'a-ha' moment realizing why I was having increasing difficulty mustering up any pride in my work and why I was the only one who wasn't getting anxious during quarter end closes. 

I've spoken with other early retirees and other people who are getting close at various FI themed meetups and the general consensus is that the Give-A-Shit-O-Meter is a real thing for most people.  But clearly, there is a subset of the population that remains emotionally invested in a career they no longer have a need for.

Am on track here?  Serious question to those of you who are struggling.  Is there a component of "fuck it" to your attitude that is sometimes overridden by emotional issues or do you still care deeply through and through?  Trying to understand your dilemma in hopes I can help.

OP here. Thanks for the thoughts. My Give-A-Shit-O-Meter has been on the decline for many years, since I've had FU money for many years, by design -- long before I ever discovered MMM. In many ways, it made me more relaxed at work, gave me the boldness to speak truth to power when others at my level were scared to because they had no financial cover, and generally have an internal "I don't need this" attitude. I also forged ahead and reshaped my various jobs to be more what I wanted, because I knew I could get away with it. Honestly, all that made me a better employee because I wasn't carrying the burden of "oh shit if I lose this job we're screwed and homeless and eating cat food."

However, I always cared very much about working hard, doing a great job, and behaving professionally; it's just how I'm built, and what gives me personal satisfaction. And I always hated hostility, aggression, and people who behaved unprofessionally, especially by attacking me. I've dealt with a lot of crap like that in IT and related fields.

So I wouldn't say I was emotionally invested in my career. I would say I'm emotionally invested in not being treated abusively, and I take hits from toxic workplace behavior whether or not I need the job. I think that's what I'm detoxing/recovering from. It's not about caring about the career, it's about dealing with the long-term, suppressed repercussions of all those incidents of other people's bad behavior and toxic company culture stressing me out.

I do think it's true that not everyone takes bad behavior as hard as I do; we're all built differently. But it was always about the people, not the career, for me.

Does that make sense?

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2018, 04:53:02 PM »

Does that make sense?

Makes a little more sense.  It is logical your Give-A-Shit-O-Meter would get closer to the big red E.  I guess its a continuum.  For me the GASOM is an absolute.  I was invested in being professional and productive, when that was what I was being paid for.  Now that I'm not, I care zero.  I still keep in touch with most of the people from the old office (less a few asshats). 

I guess I just have a hard time wrapping my head around some people can't take what I guess we can call the Mustachian Carefree Bonus, and apply it more broadly in their lives.  It's a blessing.  Like you noted, it isn't an assholery thing.  It makes you a better employee, person, friend, whatever.  Not taking crap is a two way street.  It's good for the person who stops putting up with it but also good (in a way) for the person who was serving crap.

Hope you find a way to stop letting assholes live in your head space rent free.  Maybe what I said here helps?  Meh.

RedmondStash

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2018, 06:58:48 PM »
Hope you find a way to stop letting assholes live in your head space rent free.

Thank you. Me too.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2018, 09:42:01 PM »
Just wanted to share - sorry to talk so much about my own experience.

Thanks for sharing, and welcome to the fourms!  Since the OP specifically asked for others to chime in with their experiences, you have nothing to apologize for!  :)

+1. Thanks for sharing, Doops!

++  Glad you are here!

RetirementInvestingToday

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2018, 01:38:18 AM »
...
I do not plan to do 1 more year than necessary. As soon as we can afford it, I will FIRE.
...

I was the same as your good self.  Bullish all the way until I became FI.  Then it was like a light being switched off.  In the end I believe it was due to a bit of institutionalism as well as plenty of fear.  What we are doing on this site is very much against the herd.  In the end my aha moment did come though.  I ended up doing TMY and only resigned this week.

FreshlyFIREd

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2018, 04:45:07 AM »
Although I have not needed to decompress, this thread was helpful. It had a few helpful links that shed light and made me understand a few things about myself and my experiences. Both me and wifie retired in the last 12 months and we have strong confidence that we shall never have to work in the toxic environments that we experienced for so many years. That in itself feels damn good.

Vegasgirl

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #66 on: June 18, 2018, 06:29:29 AM »
Frankly I'm a little worried about my impending FIRE coming up shortly.  I've been working only 3 days per week for the past couple of months with the hopes of getting into some sort of regular routine at home but it's been exhausting.  I've lost my "excuse" for not participating in things so my 4 day weekends have been crazy.  I'm actually coming back to work for the downtime.  I'm normally an introvert and I don't mind socializing every once in a while but I usually need to take a break.  I feel like I've been burning the candle at both ends here lately trying to plan for FIRE.  I am just hoping for some serious downtime later in the summer.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #67 on: June 18, 2018, 01:09:11 PM »
Frankly I'm a little worried about my impending FIRE coming up shortly.  I've been working only 3 days per week for the past couple of months with the hopes of getting into some sort of regular routine at home but it's been exhausting.  I've lost my "excuse" for not participating in things so my 4 day weekends have been crazy.  I'm actually coming back to work for the downtime.  I'm normally an introvert and I don't mind socializing every once in a while but I usually need to take a break.  I feel like I've been burning the candle at both ends here lately trying to plan for FIRE.  I am just hoping for some serious downtime later in the summer.

I guess you need to learn to say "no" a bit more often. Maybe one social event per weekend is enough?

RedmondStash

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2018, 10:13:36 AM »
Frankly I'm a little worried about my impending FIRE coming up shortly.  I've been working only 3 days per week for the past couple of months with the hopes of getting into some sort of regular routine at home but it's been exhausting.  I've lost my "excuse" for not participating in things so my 4 day weekends have been crazy.  I'm actually coming back to work for the downtime.  I'm normally an introvert and I don't mind socializing every once in a while but I usually need to take a break.  I feel like I've been burning the candle at both ends here lately trying to plan for FIRE.  I am just hoping for some serious downtime later in the summer.

When I first FIREd, I thought, "I must make sure to schedule lots of lunches and coffees with friends so I don't become a hermit." Now, 6 months later, I'm like, "What's wrong with being a hermit?"

I'm finding I don't need as much social time as I thought, and time with spouse scratches that "need company" itch.

I still make an effort to get out now and then to visit with friends, but it has been wonderful having so much quiet time over the past few months. I suspect that I am turtling right now, and I may emerge at some point in the future more eager to hang out with people. Or I may not. Either is okay.

Don't push yourself to participate in things you don't want to, at least not at first, even if you're not yet fully FIREd. Take some time. Maybe tell your friends & family that you need decompression time for a while, that you're "on retreat" for the next couple of months, with a big Do Not Disturb sign over your door. If you need an excuse, say, "I need introvert time."

ysette9

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2018, 10:40:41 AM »
As an introvert the “one social event a weekend” is an important rule for me feeling refreshed after a weekend and not frazzled. Exceptions can be made for socializing with neighbors as that is easy and doesn’t require getting in a car.

Vegasgirl

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2018, 11:04:04 AM »
Thanks guys, I like both the "Do not disturb" sign and the "one social event a weekend"  idea !!  I am already planning on trying to have quiet, low-key summer if at all possible.

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2018, 11:37:01 AM »
RedmondStash - interesting thread.  I've also been FIREd about 6 months and thought I'd share my transition experience to date.

I didn't work in what I would call a "toxic" work place.  It included pretty much constant competition, conflict, and drama, all overlaid on a chronic "do more with less" agency culture.  All of this generally went on with a veneer of politeness on top that kept me from feeling that I was personally under attack, but I've also known for a long time that I have an unusual ability to not take things personally.  Some of my former colleagues probably would describe the place as toxic, but I just experienced it as crazy, extremely fast-paced, and filled with whiplash-inducing changes in emphasis because no one was capable of setting priorities, making choices, and sticking to them.  We were determined to do it all, no matter how impossible doing it all might be.  I left on very good terms with everyone, but I was so glad to be out of that constant pressure cooker.  I was just completely exhausted by all of that and couldn't do it any more.

For the most part, I haven't looked back after I left.  A couple of months in I was approached by a company that interacted with my agency and was asked to do some intermittent consulting.  I agreed to do it, not because I wanted or needed to work, but because I didn't want to burn any bridges that I might need later if the need for additional income arose.  But so far they haven't produced any assignments for me.  Not sure why they asked me in the first place, but I'm glad that it hasn't turned into another job.

I haven't missed work at all, and haven't really thought about it at all.  It's like I walked out the door and knew instantly that that part of my life was over.  I haven't even had any dreams about work (unlike my Dad, who's been retired for over a decade and still has nightmares about work).  On the contrary, I'm sleeping better than I have in years.  I am thoroughly enjoying my stress-free status, and I cannot even fathom ever returning to the world of constant meetings, emails, and conference calls.

The hard part of the transition so far has been my ambivalence about involvement and engagement.  Like most people who aspire to FIRE, I had visions of being busier than ever with volunteer work, side gigs, writing, music, etc.  But so far I've had a complete lack of ambition to do anything more than mow my yard, cut firewood, hike/walk, read, watch the birds in the back yard, and other such daily life activities.  I'd like to start doing something that is more mentally engaging and involves more interaction with people, but every time I think about engaging in anything more formal, all I can think of is how I'd have to conform to someone else's schedule, ideas, and priorities.  And I have no desire to do that.  I'm hoping this is a phase that I'll transition out of at some point, because, frankly, it's starting to get a little boring hanging out at home all the time.  But I'm not going to push it.  I figure it'll come when I'm ready.

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2018, 09:52:37 PM »
I have been FIREed for 2 months, after 20 years of constantly striving and achieving. Work and societal expectations certainly don't help, but my perfectionist tendency and insecurity also played a role... Sign.. It's a part of human evolution in the Industrial age: prove yourself worth through over-achieving, then retreat after disillusionment. We only know what we know once we knew it :)

I have been a long time mediator, which helped me see through how I got wrapped up with old identities and "stories". I did a meditation last night, which really helped me: Image my younger self was suffering (at school or work), feel her pain, then send her lots of love and compassion, like your best friend would do. Tell your younger self: "I forgive you. I love you no matter what..." Once you feel a little better, extend love and compassion to all the people who might experience similar feeling. I imaged sending love and compassion to my former colleagues because it's more personal and real. Image their burdens are relieved and lightened. Image they find their paths to freedom and happiness.

Hope this meditation will help you feel lighter and relieved. It is based on Tibetan's Tonglen mediation. May we all be happy and enjoy peace!

Bird In Hand

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #73 on: June 20, 2018, 06:22:42 AM »
Hope this meditation will help you feel lighter and relieved. It is based on Tibetan's Tonglen mediation. May we all be happy and enjoy peace!

This is so weird.  No, I'm not judging your your meditation practice -- which may very well be weird, but I haven't given it enough thought yet.  What is weird is that just yesterday I came across an article about Loving Kindness Meditation while reading an article about hedonic relativism.  Until yesterday I could have sworn that I'd never heard anything about LKM before.  And then ~12 hours later I came across your post about Tonglen, which sounds more or less like LKM to me.

I know it's simply one of those instances where once you hear or see something, then subsequent encounters start to seem more frequent or meaningful, as though it's beyond the realm of coincidence.  Anybody who played "slug bug" or "punch buggy" when seeing a Volkswagen Beetle as a kid can probably relate to what I'm talking about.  I can't remember the name for that cognitive phenomenon.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #74 on: June 20, 2018, 06:42:47 AM »
I know it's simply one of those instances where once you hear or see something, then subsequent encounters start to seem more frequent or meaningful, as though it's beyond the realm of coincidence.  I can't remember the name for that cognitive phenomenon.

Found it -- the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon!

Reader

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2018, 08:10:57 AM »
I’ve decided that life is more than grinding until you can afford to stop. It’s about what happens when you stop grinding, so I just stopped. Pete did it with a giant FIRE sized safety net, and I did it with a mortgage-sized student debt. FIRE isn’t a prerequisite to starting living your best life, it just makes it easier and less scary.

FIRE doesn’t make anyone happy or give anyone a better life. It simply helps with fostering the conditions necessary for building a happy and healthy life, but it isn’t necessary, it’s isn’t a prerequisite.

thanks for giving me a different perspective of my time and work - being picky (and hence better at what you do & compensated for it) as an alternative to grinding away to achieve the minimum stash for FIRE.

mbl

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #76 on: June 20, 2018, 12:01:21 PM »
I'm sure the FIRE experience varies for everyone, but it is kinda nice to know that it can take more than the standard 6 months to shake the dust off and settle down to a life of beaches, exotic travel, hikes, and bliss. :)

And yeah, for some of us, there probably is a great deal of work to do, not just to transition to a new lifestyle, but to recuperate from the old one. It can be uncomfortable. But it's necessary work, just like you know when you sit too long in one position and your leg falls asleep, you're going to have to get up and face those pins and needles eventually. Can't be avoided, worth going through to get to the other side, and you know it won't last forever. But wow how it sucks while it's happening.

For those that had a very intense, exhausting and unhappy work life, the change is probably greater.
For those whose work isn't stressful and allows the pursuit of other things, the transition can be much less dramatic.

I have a great, low stress job and from my POV it's been that way for all of my working life.
I can get in early, and leave to swim, ride my horse, enjoy the rural life etc.

I don't need to "rehab" from my work life.   It flows easily into the other areas of my life.

I read here at MMM that many posters seem to be holding their breath waiting to FIRE.
It seems sad to not have some reasonable balance and ability to enjoy life in the here and now.  I might be overstating it but you can phrase it as you see best.
I read where people are counting down the exact number of months/days/years....I do realize that for some people it's  fun to look forward to it and anticipate what it will be like but perhaps it's healthier to also consider the value of today.

moneytaichi

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2018, 07:13:05 AM »
@ Bird at Hand, Tonglen and Loving-kindness meditation have the same root. I like to see it as "serendipity" or hints from the universe. I always cherish it when I run into these kind of coincidence.

Blackbeard

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2018, 06:16:03 PM »
Sorry to drag up a bit of an older thread. 

I’m about 1.5 months away from FIRE.  I’ve been mentally preparing/warning my wife about the imminent decompression sickness that is about to come.  I wouldn’t say I’ve ever worked in a toxic environment, but I would say I’ve worked in exceptionally stressful positions for the past 20 years that I wasn’t mentally mature enough to handle.  I was always over promoted.  My company knew it, I knew it, but I had a skill set and ability to build teams that few else could.  I compensated my lack of maturity with a technical skill set that was top tier and a leadership style for my direct reports and there team that was praised for my ability to create future leaders.  This came at the expense of how I treated people at a similar level to me or worse to people in higher levels.  If I didn’t deem them competent I steam rolled them, to my companies delight and praise.  Always done friendly, but a friendly steam roller is still a fucking steam roller.

I think my decompression is going to be to come to terms with all of the dead bodies I’ve left in my wake.  We tend to paint everyone else as the bad guy, but what if you were the bad guy.  I was the fixer.  I’m responsible for almost 9,000 job eliminations.  About 10% because someone told me to, 90% because of my ideas.

So I imagine that will be something I deal with for awhile.  You have the armor on, until the day you take it off.  Someone mentioned it, you’ve got to be able to forgive yourself, but putting that into practice is hard. 

The other thing people always mention is there has to be someone doing it.  Which I do agree with, the reason the stocks go up in mature businesses is profitability, that typically happens with some type of productivity gain, which typically translates into job losses.  Doesn’t make it easier.

I know it’s coming.  Instead of steam rolling through it, I’m going to embrace the feelings and experience the moment.

chasesfish

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2018, 07:49:28 PM »
@Blackbeard I'm glad you dug up this thread.  I am still wondering how I will take it.  You're also right, a friendly steamroller is sometimes still a steamroller.  I've been the lieutenant for the steamroller before.  Its not personal, either you do it or an activist investor takes over your company and they force the productivity gains.  The times change.

I am also wondering how I'll handle the decompression, but looking forward to that day.

Stachey

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #80 on: July 24, 2018, 12:09:25 PM »
Thank you Redmond for starting this thread.

It's so nice to know I'm not the only one going through this.
It's been a little over two years of FIRE for me and I've been going through a lot that I never expected.  I had heard about the decompression phase of FIRE but never expected this.

I think the issue is that so many people have to keep such a tight lid on all of their problems when they work full time.  Everyone is in survival mode.  It's impossible to deal with all the toxic people and bullshit situations so everyone just hunkers down and focuses on the minimum amount of energy required to make it through each day.  And since the job drains so much energy from a person, there is none left to deal with issues in the personal life.

But with FIRE, there is time to unpack it all and deal with it and work on figuring out how you WANT to live and not just how you HAVE to live in order to survive.  It is taking time to work through it all but definitely it's getting better all the time.

RedmondStash

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2018, 05:24:50 PM »
I think the issue is that so many people have to keep such a tight lid on all of their problems when they work full time.  Everyone is in survival mode.  It's impossible to deal with all the toxic people and bullshit situations so everyone just hunkers down and focuses on the minimum amount of energy required to make it through each day.  And since the job drains so much energy from a person, there is none left to deal with issues in the personal life.

But with FIRE, there is time to unpack it all and deal with it and work on figuring out how you WANT to live and not just how you HAVE to live in order to survive.  It is taking time to work through it all but definitely it's getting better all the time.

I think that's exactly right, Stachey. Not all the jobs I've had have been toxic -- I've enjoyed a few quite a bit -- but I'm realizing now that in some ways, they were still terrible fits for me, and that's the part I'm still decompressing from, 8 months out. The square hole might not be a bad thing in itself, but if you're a round peg, it's still not a comfortable fit. I think I'm still trying to return to my original, natural shape, to stretch that metaphor to its breaking point. :)

I think my decompression is going to be to come to terms with all of the dead bodies I’ve left in my wake.  We tend to paint everyone else as the bad guy, but what if you were the bad guy.  I was the fixer.  I’m responsible for almost 9,000 job eliminations.  About 10% because someone told me to, 90% because of my ideas.

So I imagine that will be something I deal with for awhile.  You have the armor on, until the day you take it off.  Someone mentioned it, you’ve got to be able to forgive yourself, but putting that into practice is hard. 

I think that's going to be a challenge, Blackbeard. But I'm heartened that you're thinking of the dead bodies you've left behind. In my view, a move toward greater empathy is a fine thing, even if it's not necessarily a comfortable or pleasant thing when it's happening. Good luck to you.

I'm really glad this thread has been useful for other people. It's certainly been useful for me.

Thanks, everyone.

beekayworld

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #82 on: July 29, 2018, 11:05:46 AM »
Image my younger self was suffering (at school or work), feel her pain, then send her lots of love and compassion, like your best friend would do. Tell your younger self: "I forgive you. I love you no matter what..." Once you feel a little better, extend love and compassion to all the people who might experience similar feeling. I imaged sending love and compassion to my former colleagues because it's more personal and real. Image their burdens are relieved and lightened. Image they find their paths to freedom and happiness.

Hope this meditation will help you feel lighter and relieved. It is based on Tibetan's Tonglen mediation. May we all be happy and enjoy peace!

I love this! I'm working through "The Artist's Way" workbook. One exercise is to write a letter to yourself at age 8, and also, write a letter to your current self from your future age 80 self.  I like the duality of both looking backwards and forwards.

HovEratoTo

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #83 on: July 31, 2018, 12:08:46 PM »
Oh boy. Today I've been in the throes of another "what am I doing at this job why don't I just quit now and clearly then I'll be so happy!" episode. But reading this thread has reminded me that, while walking away from the job may relieve some stress and pressure, it won't fix everything, and in fact I may have to do the harder work I've postponed up until now because I've been distracting myself with work for years.

pecunia

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #84 on: July 31, 2018, 06:13:21 PM »
Last Spring I had a decision.  I could FIRE, keep working at my present job or take a similar job that was four tens.  I thought the four tens would give me time to think about what to do when I was fully done.  The job was supposed to last two years.  It actually lasted about 2-1/2 months until the new company lost the contract and I was dumped.  I had worked very hard to stay on good terms with the old employer and contacted them.  The boss said he'd put my name back in and I expect to be working again.  However, that's probably not until September. 

I haven't had this much time off in years.  I thought it would help me see what retirement would be like.  The descriptions which many of you wrote match my thinking.  On one day I think of making this permanent.  You only live so long.  Another day I am nervous that I am not at work. 

Stress - I do not think I'll ever be quite as stressed as years ago.  The collection of FU money is like taking a large yoke from your shoulders.  There is no longer any reason to get wound about the silly things management does ever again.

I've been reading and commenting on a lot of posts on this site during this "time off" period.  I am very glad I read these entries.  I've said it before.  There's a lot of collective wisdom on this site.

I think the idea of some meditation will cleanse my mind of the odd guilt trip about not being at work.  I have put my time in.

Thanks for letting me share and thanks for sharing. 

smoghat

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #85 on: August 09, 2018, 03:37:56 PM »
So after FIRE, I continued working part-time, teaching at an overseas university (I used to be an academic in the US, made my money on the side of course). It bugged me more and more since it set deadlines, the students were awful (anybody says that US students are bad hasn’t been to some of these places...), and getting paid was an exercise in stress. I made about $20,000 for a month of work which sounds good and I wrote it all off, but it consumed me at some low level, like some kind of respiratory virus that makes it hard to exercise and makes you cough at inopportune times. In reality I was probably spending two months of my time on this job and last month probably even three months. So I quit. Whew.

I had a couple of tasks left over, including as essay on a friend who passed away for a book on his life. I finally finished it yesterday. I’m kind of shocked at how easy things feel all of a sudden. I have two, even three book projects, and plenty of hope about getting my stuff in museums, but I don’t NEED to do anything. That’s an amazing feeling. I cleaned the house like crazy, but I didn’t have to. That feeling of freedom is incredible. I don’t need to do anything now. Whew.

BigMoneyJim

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2018, 04:09:41 PM »
Yeah, my journal covers the story of my last two years. In a nutshell, I've long intended to retire early, hoping for age 50-55 target but until quite recently thought 55 might be optimistic. Then I got laid off at 47.

At age 46 in my highest-paying, most-engaged job ever they told me they were laying off my entire stateside group...in 10 months. I can handle change, but uncertainty drives me nuts, and the 10 months until layoff, the 6 months until I got another job, and the 6 months since then I keep reanalyzing my situation and my future possibilities as I considered everything from trying to stay with the company in a different role to going back to the company, to trying consulting (without preparation or a plan), to semi-retiring, to going to another company full-time, and everything in between. That, and deciding where I want to live because my reasons for living where I am now aren't necessarily valid anymore.

I mean, I've been gearing up for retirement and didn't have my self-identity tied to my job, and I still had a hard time adjusting.

I *think* I might have it all finally figured out now, but the latest paradigm was hatched only a week ago, so time will tell if this is the one true path for me or if this is just another mood swing / fanciful idea.

smoghat

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2018, 09:57:31 AM »
Ugh, much as last month I felt relieved, I’m approaching my birthday tomorrow and feeling stress. I suppose that there are a few reasons for this.

Top is that I’m not getting the sense of accomplishment I used to. Teaching at a top tier university was a steaming pile of shit most of the time, especially as the current batch of millenials came in and wanted nothing but praise in reward for doing no work. At the same time, it meant I was part of a scene that many covet and while I should have time to do the artistic side of my work, I haven’t found it easy to work on that and venues haven’t come calling with offers. That is disheartening. I am not sure if not having commissions to do my art is tied to my not being in a university anymore. It could be. Or not. If not, then I guess it’s a relief since if I were still teaching and being judged by my output, I’d be nervous about my lack of opportunities. Now it’s just irritating, but my sense of accomplishment is tied to it.

I guess that’s not totally true. I do have a commission, but I can’t figure out how to make it work technologically. Anybody with experience making Faraday Cages, PM me.

So why can’t I sit down and just make more art? Heck, I have a book on my work to put together, but haven’t been able to do it.

I’ve been doing lots of home improvement, much of it is necessary and due to the neglect this time-consuming house had while I was teaching and so on. But it’s been about 60% of my time. I think that part of me just wants to do this and is avoiding making art and writing, that’s dumb but that’s what it is.

Exercising is another 20%. I’m trying to get my life back together physically. My physical therapist tells me that I’m more flexible than ever, which is great as ten years ago I was so bad off I nearly needed surgery. He says that will never be necessary as long as I keep going like I have been.

But I can’t relax as much as I’d like. My suburban neighborhood is filled with loud noises and I like to listen to music and or work in quiet. Right now, I hear a chainsaw and a machine shredding trees. This happens ALL THE TIME and drives me nuts. I saw a therapist about it. She recommended mindfulness classes. Those helped, a little. But now we’re back to that. I’d move, but my kids are in school and my daughter refuses to. It’s at least 6 years until they are both in college.

The kids are around too much. Our school system seems to give them about one day off a week. This time it’s Yom Kippur, Nothing against the Jewish faith, I’d be fine with there being no Christian holidays either, but my daughter lost three days of school last week because a staircase collapsed in her school (given my property taxes, this is outrageous).

There are a lot of hassles dealing with home improvement. We have to get our driveway redone. There’s no way I’m going to DIY THAT! And I’m chasing the contractor every day for two months to get him to come out. It’s infuriating. There’s always some excuse. I bet today he’ll wind up in a car accident or his arm will come off or something new.

I find myself stressed at the end of the day and I wind up turning to beer or wine. Not in huge amounts, but we always share a bottle at dinner between the two of us (me getting 2/3) and I have one more drink beyond that. I’d like to cut that down or even have a few days without it. That, and coffee drinking, probably adds to the stress level, but I’ve tried cutting them both out before and that’s been miserable too.

I know that Trump is a big source of stress for me too. He has gutted the health insurance plans which we expected would be around for us after we retired. I just went in for my annual dermatologist exam and said don’t even bother with insurance, I’ll pay on the credit card. It’s that ludicrous now. So there’s tremendous stress from the daily drama.

Thinking that if I write this down, maybe it’ll help. Maybe.

austin944

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #88 on: September 19, 2018, 10:20:54 AM »
I find myself stressed at the end of the day and I wind up turning to beer or wine. Not in huge amounts, but we always share a bottle at dinner between the two of us (me getting 2/3) and I have one more drink beyond that. I’d like to cut that down or even have a few days without it. That, and coffee drinking, probably adds to the stress level, but I’ve tried cutting them both out before and that’s been miserable too.

Please join us in the following thread where we support each other in our goal to give up alcohol:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/give-up-the-hooch-booze-free-for-as-long-as-you-please!

pecunia

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #89 on: September 19, 2018, 07:14:49 PM »
austin944:

"Please join us in the following thread where we support each other in our goal to give up alcohol:

In many states marijuana is becoming legal, would that be a better way to relax and appreciate the time of no longer having to work?

smoghat

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2018, 05:51:38 AM »
Yes, but I think ultimately the real villains here are

the difficulties of dealing with neighbors spending too much of their salaries on keeping their driveways spotless [how many times a week do you need to have your leaves blown off your driveway? Why do your need the leaves cleaned out of your FOREST), of course since these broken souls march off to work every day, they don’t get what they are doing.

that I have to decide how I feel about my creative work...do I not care about timing or do I throw myself into it? The risks of timing are that as I’ve seen a lot of success is purely random and the risks of the latter but that also people expect a certain hyperactive level of production these days.

And those lead to major unresolved stress issues. Incredibly the driveway guy says he will start Friday. It’s only taken two months.

Then again, working at home with leaf blowers going may still be better than my former Dean’s “brilliant” idea of having 30 people work in an open office.


austin944

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2018, 10:25:23 AM »
In many states marijuana is becoming legal, would that be a better way to relax and appreciate the time of no longer having to work?

I'm too much of a health fanatic to pursue marijuana as an option.  I prefer exercise as a means of de-stressing; I believe it changes my body and mind for the better.  Self-improvement, whether through exercise or through intellectual stimulation, has a positive effect on my well-being and outlook.  Smoking or ingesting MJ would just be a temporary escape; I would still be the same person after I came down from a high.  My hopes and fears would remain the same.  That's why I (mostly) quit alcohol; there were too many detrimental effects, like cancer, and only temporary pleasures that didn't change the person inside.

Dicey

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #92 on: September 23, 2018, 05:23:21 PM »
Posting so I can find this interesting thread again.  Dec. 5, 2018 will be my 6th FIREversary. I'm happy, but FIRE looks nothing like I imagined it would.

MasterStache

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #93 on: September 24, 2018, 05:40:24 AM »
Just waned to chime in myself as I just passed 14 months FIRE. I have to admit I have had my ups and downs. One thing I have noticed is I seem to be in better spirits when I have work to do. I am a bit like MMM in that I have some very good carpentry skills and as such have generated some decent side income (wasn't my intention). I like the work, do it only on occasion, basically when I feel like doing it, and at my own pace. I've actually turned down a couple jobs lately.

Evgenia

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #94 on: September 24, 2018, 11:19:15 PM »
I've been FIREd for about 6 months, possibly temporarily, depending on how spending and investments play out. The original plan was to work longer, but I ended up leaving a job I had previously really enjoyed because of toxic crap.

And then I started thinking about my 25-year career in tech, and wow, there's been a lot of toxic crap. It seems like I've been decompressing not just from this job or from working but from dealing with the fallout of damaging environments for many years. I sort of feel like a soldier who's come home from war, and instead of relaxing and enjoying life is now having nightmares, insomnia, panic attacks, and other PTSD reactions...

...This is the first time I've realized I might never have to rejoin the rat race. I think that's encouraging the parts of my brain that were hunkered down and coping with work troubles to emerge into the light.

Is anyone else dealing with stuff like this? Realizing that jobs you thought were mostly okay had actually done you significant damage, and having to deal with the fallout after FIRE?

I'm a few months late to respond (at 3.5 years FIRE, I am not online nearly so much) but yes, yes to all of it. I'm a woman, and worked in tech for 20 years, and the six months after leaving saw all the trauma of that time come out. I had forgotten about/buried so many things: male colleagues drunk and banging on my hotel room doors at 3 AM on business trips, threatening to assault and/or fire me if I did not open the door; too many unzipped flies and unwelcome exposures to count; terrible salary disparities; on, and on, and on.

I will probably never know what it was, exactly, about the relationship between true down time, knowing I would never have to go back, and emergent trauma, but it happened. I chronicled some of it on my blog. If I had to guess, I would say that knowing you really, truly will never have to return to certain places and people again allows some defense mechanisms (most of which I suspect are unconscious) to recede and, in so doing, allow the trauma to emerge.

It's better now, and I suspect would be a LOT better if we did not still live in the SF Bay Area, surrounded--for now--by too many of the sort of people who did/do vile things at work. The nightmares, panic attacks, etc. (which I never had before FIRE) stopped probably 1.5 years in.

The farther I got from it, i.e. the longer we are FIRE, the less likely I am to ever go back and chance those things happening again. At this point, 3.5 years on, I can say we'd have to be near starving for me to take jobs anything like those I had in the past. Much of the American work place is very sick, abusive, toxic, and frankly inhumane.

I don't think it's a matter of working or not working, though DH and I both work part-time. For me, the things that came to light in the first six months post FIRE had nothing to do with generalized anxiety or depression or anything like that, for me; they were straight-up post-toxic-job trauma. Anyway, I'm here if you ever want to shoot someone a message, have questions, or need support. It is not just you, and it does get better. I wouldn't trade FIRE for anything. :-)

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #95 on: September 25, 2018, 09:22:49 AM »
I've been FIREd for about 6 months, possibly temporarily, depending on how spending and investments play out. The original plan was to work longer, but I ended up leaving a job I had previously really enjoyed because of toxic crap.

And then I started thinking about my 25-year career in tech, and wow, there's been a lot of toxic crap. It seems like I've been decompressing not just from this job or from working but from dealing with the fallout of damaging environments for many years. I sort of feel like a soldier who's come home from war, and instead of relaxing and enjoying life is now having nightmares, insomnia, panic attacks, and other PTSD reactions...

...This is the first time I've realized I might never have to rejoin the rat race. I think that's encouraging the parts of my brain that were hunkered down and coping with work troubles to emerge into the light.

Is anyone else dealing with stuff like this? Realizing that jobs you thought were mostly okay had actually done you significant damage, and having to deal with the fallout after FIRE?

I'm a few months late to respond (at 3.5 years FIRE, I am not online nearly so much) but yes, yes to all of it. I'm a woman, and worked in tech for 20 years, and the six months after leaving saw all the trauma of that time come out. I had forgotten about/buried so many things: male colleagues drunk and banging on my hotel room doors at 3 AM on business trips, threatening to assault and/or fire me if I did not open the door; too many unzipped flies and unwelcome exposures to count; terrible salary disparities; on, and on, and on.

I will probably never know what it was, exactly, about the relationship between true down time, knowing I would never have to go back, and emergent trauma, but it happened. I chronicled some of it on my blog. If I had to guess, I would say that knowing you really, truly will never have to return to certain places and people again allows some defense mechanisms (most of which I suspect are unconscious) to recede and, in so doing, allow the trauma to emerge.

It's better now, and I suspect would be a LOT better if we did not still live in the SF Bay Area, surrounded--for now--by too many of the sort of people who did/do vile things at work. The nightmares, panic attacks, etc. (which I never had before FIRE) stopped probably 1.5 years in.

The farther I got from it, i.e. the longer we are FIRE, the less likely I am to ever go back and chance those things happening again. At this point, 3.5 years on, I can say we'd have to be near starving for me to take jobs anything like those I had in the past. Much of the American work place is very sick, abusive, toxic, and frankly inhumane.

I don't think it's a matter of working or not working, though DH and I both work part-time. For me, the things that came to light in the first six months post FIRE had nothing to do with generalized anxiety or depression or anything like that, for me; they were straight-up post-toxic-job trauma. Anyway, I'm here if you ever want to shoot someone a message, have questions, or need support. It is not just you, and it does get better. I wouldn't trade FIRE for anything. :-)

@Evgenia - as a woman who has also spent 20 years in tech, I just wanted to say how sad I was for your experience, & that I'm so sorry you had that happen to you. There was definitely some strange behavior over the year, and general eye brow raising comments, but as a general rule, both companies where I work(ed) took these types of things very seriously & came down super hard on anything that could be construed in that way. I'm sorry that wasn't also your experience. I did file one complaint in all of my 20 years, and it resulted in a termination based on a pattern of behavior.

Anyway, I'm so happy to hear that FIRE has allowed you time to step back & deal with the toxic behavior you were exposed to.

RedmondStash

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2018, 11:37:11 AM »
I'm a few months late to respond (at 3.5 years FIRE, I am not online nearly so much) but yes, yes to all of it. I'm a woman, and worked in tech for 20 years, and the six months after leaving saw all the trauma of that time come out. I had forgotten about/buried so many things: male colleagues drunk and banging on my hotel room doors at 3 AM on business trips, threatening to assault and/or fire me if I did not open the door; too many unzipped flies and unwelcome exposures to count; terrible salary disparities; on, and on, and on.

The things women deal with. Horrifying. I doubt most men have any idea of the depth of damage that kind of thing does. I'm really sorry you ever had to deal with any of that.

I will probably never know what it was, exactly, about the relationship between true down time, knowing I would never have to go back, and emergent trauma, but it happened. I chronicled some of it on my blog. If I had to guess, I would say that knowing you really, truly will never have to return to certain places and people again allows some defense mechanisms (most of which I suspect are unconscious) to recede and, in so doing, allow the trauma to emerge.

I think that's exactly it. I've taken time off from work before, years even, but always knowing I would have to go back someday. Now that I probably don't, it's like a big glacier is melting, and I don't like everything I'm seeing thaw from the ice.

I don't think it's a matter of working or not working, though DH and I both work part-time. For me, the things that came to light in the first six months post FIRE had nothing to do with generalized anxiety or depression or anything like that, for me; they were straight-up post-toxic-job trauma. Anyway, I'm here if you ever want to shoot someone a message, have questions, or need support. It is not just you, and it does get better. I wouldn't trade FIRE for anything. :-)

Thank you very much. I think things are gradually improving, but I may take you up on that sometime. It's very good to hear that it does get better over time, and that it can take quite a while. I'd hoped that after almost a year, I'd be all done, but apparently not quite yet. :)

smoghat

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #97 on: September 26, 2018, 05:20:08 PM »
Horrifying! Even as a guy, this weeks events have reminded me what a messed up culture we live in and dredged up bad memories of what those kind of “bros” were like back then, Yikes!

On a positive note, I had an awesome session with my therapist today when I realized that I was having trouble because I no longer had a clear sense of priorities. When I was working for the Dean, I knew I had to impress him so I’d churn my book out. Now I have no Dean, no overseer. If I don’t touch my book for two months because it’s summer and I am working on the house so it doesn’t rot, that’s ok. I’m in charge. Made me feel a lot better. Got home and went for a 4.3 mile run.

Meanwhile the Dean is still working. I’m sure he’s convinced himself it’s the best thing ever.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 05:21:40 PM by smoghat »

Blackbeard

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #98 on: September 26, 2018, 10:11:50 PM »
I’ve been FIRE for about three weeks now.  Earlier in the thread I wrote I was nervous about coming to terms with all of the heavy lifting through my career. 

Im happy to say it took me about three days to move on.  Seriously.  Im sleeping better, I’m working out more.  I haven’t thought about it one bit, and I was/am a partner in the business I left.  I’m shocked. 

I think part of the reason is I had such a long resignation timeframe, almost 3 months.  It allowed me to mentally start the transition.  I’ve also been getting the new person up to speed. That allowed me to do a lot of soul searching to have them not make my same mistakes.  Since I am an educative in the organization I’ve got to explain a lot of the history of how we got to where we are and where “I” saw us going.  So that means you’ve got to thoughtfully reflect on the good and the not so good.  And you’ve got to be brutally honest because the new person is going to be the steward of my shares in the business. 

Plus I retired to something.  I think that has a lot todo with it as well.  We’ll see in a few months, but so far I’m pleasantly surprised.  I was generally worried I’d be depressed or off my normal self.


smoghat

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Re: Difficult FIRE decompression/transition, anyone?
« Reply #99 on: February 14, 2019, 05:13:03 AM »
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Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
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</quote>

Injunctions against necrobumping are unwelcome. I will follow my bliss and ignore them.

Been feeling pretty down this week for a variety of reasons (injured myself running leading to gaining back weight I'd lost in January) but mainly I think it's the aftereffects of a life of psychological abuse. Much of it was from my father and from relentless bullying in my high school, but stupidly I picked a career (academics!) that I thought would be fun and rewarding. Nope. It's only now that I realize that I received the same sort of abuse that I endured from my father— moving goalposts, nothing is ever good enough, being told you won't ever succeed—was a constant in my job.

Maybe actually realizing this will help, I hope so. But it's been four years since I started the process of early retirement and I feel more like a mess than I was before (in fairness, I only finally quit doing it part time last year).

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!