Author Topic: Dead Man/Woman Walking....  (Read 23332 times)

Frugal_is_Fab

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2016, 05:03:50 PM »
I believe OP is contractually bound to give the long notice.  In the future, I will probably only give 2 weeks in my written resignation, but verbally state that I could stay longer if I'm available and will be utilized.

At my company people are sometimes asked to leave immediately, sometimes not.   I know that I won't be replaced despite the general overworked team.    I feel bad that people will need to absorb my work but it's beyond my control and I won't sacrifice my whole life because I feel bad.  The company has a stated goal to cut 50 million in "overhead" next year.  Guess I'll be helping.    Long comment. but I plan to give two weeks notice to give them an option but if they show me the door immediately that is ok too.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2016, 09:20:25 AM »
Posting to follow.

My contracted notice is six months, with an option for them to send me home immediately and pay me instead. My intention is absolutely for this to happen.

Exflyboy

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2016, 01:40:18 PM »
Next week is my last week.  It's scary but also exhilarating.  I've realized several important things:

1) I don't want to be retired per se.  I don't even want to not work in this field altogether necessarily.  I just don't want to be at this particular job any more (and probably not any FT job in the future, TBH).

2) I have a long list of things I'd like to do before I die.  I do worry about running out of lifetime before I run out of things I'd like to accomplish.  Clearly, however, continuing to work FT at this job that I don't love is not going to help me very much with accomplishing anything on my list (short of becoming a millionaire, which is something that will inevitably happen anyway based on my spending/saving patterns).

3) One More Year Syndrome is a real phenomenon, particularly for people making higher incomes.  I even have a bit of One More Month Syndrome.  This is a flaw in my own logic/reasoning that I need to struggle against and be vigilant about constantly.  Again, working at this job is not helping me accomplish any other goal that matters to me.

4) I think jobs with known expiration dates (say, a contract for a certain amount of time) might ultimately be better.  Open-ended jobs with open-ended quit dates just feed into the tendency to overstay one's useful work life at a particular job out of inertia, even if that job is not a good fit for one's overall life goals and plans.

5) Change is both scary and exhilarating.

3 and 5 on your list were a huge deal to me..:)

Libertea

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2017, 08:35:02 AM »
Happy New Year everyone!

I am now officially semi-retired.  It feels kind of like the way going home on the last day of school feels.  Everyone is all, "oh, we'll miss you, stay in touch!"  If they had yearbooks for jobs like they do for high schools, no doubt we'd be signing them with all the usual platitudes like KIT.  But of course the vast majority of us have no intention of keeping in touch.  Most of these people barely even know me.  We were work acquaintances, not friends.

I've mentioned before that working for four months after resigning definitely started to feel like too much.  It's such a long time to be in limbo.  And considering that my employer still hasn't hired anyone to replace me even now, I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of my having to stay so long was.  If they were just going to flog my remaining colleagues harder regardless, couldn't I have left a few months sooner?  It seems to me like the answer is yes....

Be that as it may, I'm glad I did the honorable thing and stuck it out, because I did give my word that I'd stay till the end of the year.  But I'm also glad that the end of the year has come and gone, and I can't muster up the will to fake being sorry to see this purgatory come to an end....except for the fact that the money train is coming to an end.  I definitely am a bit sorry about that, and it's the main reason why a tiny part of me wishes I had stayed just One More Month....

Metric Mouse

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2017, 08:47:44 AM »
Posting to follow.

My contracted notice is six months, with an option for them to send me home immediately and pay me instead. My intention is absolutely for this to happen.

That would be amazing.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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Exflyboy

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2017, 11:58:02 AM »
Happy New Year everyone!

I am now officially semi-retired.  It feels kind of like the way going home on the last day of school feels.  Everyone is all, "oh, we'll miss you, stay in touch!"  If they had yearbooks for jobs like they do for high schools, no doubt we'd be signing them with all the usual platitudes like KIT.  But of course the vast majority of us have no intention of keeping in touch.  Most of these people barely even know me.  We were work acquaintances, not friends.

I've mentioned before that working for four months after resigning definitely started to feel like too much.  It's such a long time to be in limbo.  And considering that my employer still hasn't hired anyone to replace me even now, I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of my having to stay so long was.  If they were just going to flog my remaining colleagues harder regardless, couldn't I have left a few months sooner?  It seems to me like the answer is yes....

Be that as it may, I'm glad I did the honorable thing and stuck it out, because I did give my word that I'd stay till the end of the year.  But I'm also glad that the end of the year has come and gone, and I can't muster up the will to fake being sorry to see this purgatory come to an end....except for the fact that the money train is coming to an end.  I definitely am a bit sorry about that, and it's the main reason why a tiny part of me wishes I had stayed just One More Month....

Yup I hear ya..:)

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2017, 03:38:12 AM »
My contracted notice is six months, with an option for them to send me home immediately and pay me instead. My intention is absolutely for this to happen.
That would be amazing.

Yep, in order for it to happen I need them to think I'm going to be competing with them, will steal secrets, or need to have done something so outrageous that I'll be a distraction in the office.

oneyear

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2017, 03:39:33 AM »
In that instance, tell them nothing. The suspicion will get the better of them and technically no lies are told.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2017, 04:08:54 AM »
In that instance, tell them nothing. The suspicion will get the better of them and technically no lies are told.

Yes, hence the specific phrase "I need them to think" rather than "I need to be doing".  If I know I'm never going back I quite like the idea of #3!

Yours is a lower risk method; I also really like imagining how that conversation would go. My boss's boss HATES not knowing as well, so I bet I could get him into a right state.

oneyear

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2017, 07:10:38 AM »
"Sorry I'm not permitted to say" is the best sentence you can use. Rehearse it over and over as no doubt they'll ask and try and catch you out because you arent saying anything

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2017, 12:07:59 PM »
"Sorry I'm not permitted to say" is the best sentence you can use. Rehearse it over and over as no doubt they'll ask and try and catch you out because you arent saying anything

That's the winner, thanks Oneyear!

Linda_Norway

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2017, 03:59:20 AM »
Posting to follow.

My contracted notice is six months, with an option for them to send me home immediately and pay me instead. My intention is absolutely for this to happen.

Demotivating the rest of your colleagues should do the trick. Like being very lazy and talking negatively about the company. Or starting a job at a direct competitor.

UKMustache

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2017, 06:27:31 AM »
"Sorry I'm not permitted to say" is the best sentence you can use. Rehearse it over and over as no doubt they'll ask and try and catch you out because you arent saying anything

I've done this before and got a months gardening leave.  It helps if you work with sensitive information.

money_bunny

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2017, 05:38:20 PM »
Gave notice Tuesday. Yesterday was having anxiety going "What have you done?!" We had many severe changes at work, as well as a radical job description and location change since Thanksgiving. That's it's own long long post. My therapist suggested journalling about it and it was 6-7 pages long.

I'm 2/3 of the way to fire to have the life I would like. I'm mostly there, especially if I work part time for part of the year each year for several years. I'm also thinking of doing what GoCurryCracker has done and moved out of the country for a bit. Considering MSF, I would need to learn French and have my own issues resolved before trying to work in those environments.

Woofing and helping other people on their projects is also something I am considering.

My manager came in Wed and tried to ask what she could change to help me stay. I said systems issues and severe changes that were given to me. She has a mean streak and said some toxic things about the last person to leave, so I am a little nervous around her. She cried during the end of the interview, when I told her I am just leaving with no fall back I can't keep doing this full time.She's severely short staffed as I am the second Nurse Practitioner to quit in 2 months, and I am very motivated and clinically competent. I'm back again to being the last NP hired in 3.5 years since nobody after me has stayed for more than a year.

Before the change there were systems issues but I loved my job. The pace and some of the dealing with modern medicine got to me but I love being an NP.

Since my self definition and self worth is wrapped up in my job this is going to be a struggle. This is going to be a hiatus for a year and then I would like to find a better fit. Ideally part time. I'd consider Per-Diems to cover for my former peers when they are on vacation.

I was going to ask HR for a lateral to a medical department from psych (Pain Management would be my first choice) but they cut out Health Insurance for less than 32 hours a week. So it's ACA and minimally working, or 32-48 hours a week (could and would be much more) full time. There is no real middle ground.

Libertea

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2017, 06:36:40 AM »
It's going to be ok, money_bunny.

It seems to me that people in health care self-identify with their jobs more than most people do.  In a way, that's understandable, because being a health care provider is not the kind of career that people go into if they don't have a streak of altruism in them.  It's different than being an accountant or a software engineer or (in many cases) even a lawyer that way.  For the most part, no one gets asked if they went into accounting or engineering or corporate law to "help people."  But at the same time, you ARE more than your job description.  Maybe you could try working on developing a different hobby or skill that is not related to health care but that still means a lot to you?  It might help you with the whole balancing act and finding meaning outside of a job.  Learning French might be a good outlet, even though you're doing it in part to join MSF.

On a somewhat unrelated note, do you really have to learn French in order to join MSF?  I know the organization is French in the sense it was started by French-speakers, but I'm kind of amazed to hear that they require participants to learn French in order to be deployed. 

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2017, 02:20:02 AM »
On a somewhat unrelated note, do you really have to learn French in order to join MSF?  I know the organization is French in the sense it was started by French-speakers, but I'm kind of amazed to hear that they require participants to learn French in order to be deployed.

From my friends who have done it. The business language of the organisation is French. There are some opportunities in English-speaking areas for people who don't speak French but they are in higher demand. If you speak/read no French and can't/won't learn you will find it difficult in MSF and another organisation is probably a better fit for you. They have great resources online for learning French.

money_bunny

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2017, 01:54:47 PM »
The nurses act as leaders and teachers to the projects they are assigned. So speaking French to work in Africa or Spanish to work in South or Latin America is a big plus.


Patches

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2017, 04:20:54 PM »
I find it interesting when people refer to a loyalty to their employer.  Where does this feeling come from?  Are we being tricked into having emotions for our corporate employers?  Do we really owe them something for allowing us to keep working for them while they are profitable?  Or is it just a feeling of not wanting to inconvenience our beloved bosses and coworkers with our departure?  Or is it more a feeling of loyalty to the customers?

I may be wrong but it seems to me our employers owe us something.  And they settle their debt to us every pay day.

Uturn

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2017, 04:39:35 PM »
Why does loyalty have to be a one way street?  I find the best relationship is two way loyalty.  I do X for a prearranged salary, knowing full well the company is making a profit on my efforts.  They train me and allow me to gain experience, I do the best I can with the resources they provide combined with my skills.  As long as it is a mutually beneficial arraignment, I will stick around.  If the company decides to get maximum benefit out of me while putting in minimum effort, I get rid of them.  If I put in minimum effort while trying to get maximum benefit, they should get rid of me. 
It's not about money, it's about mindset

Patches

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2017, 09:49:11 AM »
Why does loyalty have to be a one way street?  I find the best relationship is two way loyalty.  I do X for a prearranged salary, knowing full well the company is making a profit on my efforts.  They train me and allow me to gain experience, I do the best I can with the resources they provide combined with my skills.  As long as it is a mutually beneficial arraignment, I will stick around.  If the company decides to get maximum benefit out of me while putting in minimum effort, I get rid of them.  If I put in minimum effort while trying to get maximum benefit, they should get rid of me.


That seems perfectly reasonable.  And so the feelings of disloyalty and guilt comes because the departing employee feels they not holding up their end of the deal... or just struggling to find the most amicable way to break-up. 

I think my career path and industry is a little more cut-throat than the norm on this forum.  Doesn't mean it's any more or less rewarding... just the employer/employee relationship might be viewed with a little more cynicism.  Or maybe it's just me...


Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2017, 01:11:39 AM »
Why does loyalty have to be a one way street?  I find the best relationship is two way loyalty.  I do X for a prearranged salary, knowing full well the company is making a profit on my efforts.  They train me and allow me to gain experience, I do the best I can with the resources they provide combined with my skills.  As long as it is a mutually beneficial arraignment, I will stick around.  If the company decides to get maximum benefit out of me while putting in minimum effort, I get rid of them.  If I put in minimum effort while trying to get maximum benefit, they should get rid of me.

This isn't what I call loyalty. This is what I call a transaction. I turn up to work because they pay me; they give me money because they make more money with my work. If I can get more money elsewhere, I will go and work there, if they can find someone to do my work more cheaply, they will fire me and hire that person.

momcpa

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2017, 11:51:39 AM »
Here's my update to my intention of giving notice sometime last November......
I sat down with the owner in November (he's off-site, rarely around) after specifically asking that the next time he was here, I'd like to visit with him about my work arrangement.  I had spent A LOT of time the past 6 to 9 months on the MM forum gathering tips, ideas, courage, and backbone !!  I read a couple books, and researched HR tips and comments.

I said that as of Feb 1, 2017 I would be working part-time...defined as 2-3 days a week.  I explained that I felt I should be changed from salaried to hourly as fairness to both me and the business.  (we wouldn't know if I would have to work more or less hours than the requested part-time).  I presented an hourly figure that would have scared me silly a year ago!!  But with the MM support, and encouragement from the book "Women Don't Ask", I used a number I could support with documentation.  I'm giving up company insurance (going on my husband's policy).  Part-timers here do not get vacation, but I requested keeping that benefit as "the carrot" to keep me here long enough to train someone to do my job, to keep me here during busy season, and to be available by phone when not in the office.

Everything was agreed to !!!!! No negotiation, no debate.  SERIOUSLY, you guys can't imagine the help you've been to me.  The inspiration I get from a thought here, a tidbit there, an experience someone else endured.  THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

It's been 80+ days now and they are interviewing the first candidate at 4 pm today....the day before my part-time officially starts.  I hope they find someone soon, but if not, my consolation prize will be the paycheck I get at my new inflated, but deserved rate!!!


jim555

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2017, 05:47:20 PM »
I am amazed how much notice you all are giving.  I wouldn't give that much notice, it can work against you.  My last day was semi-unexpected, escorted out by security. 
I asked to be put in the next lay off, eventually it worked out.  Severance pay was sweet.

Libertea

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #73 on: January 31, 2017, 07:44:00 PM »
I am amazed how much notice you all are giving.  I wouldn't give that much notice, it can work against you.  My last day was semi-unexpected, escorted out by security. 
I asked to be put in the next lay off, eventually it worked out.  Severance pay was sweet.
I wanted to leave sooner; if it were up to my boss, I would still be working now, FIVE MONTHS after I told him I wanted to quit....he tried to get me to stay longer.  AFAIK, they still haven't hired anyone to replace me.

Great update, momcpa.  Congrats!

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2017, 01:29:10 AM »
Everything was agreed to !!!!! No negotiation, no debate.  SERIOUSLY, you guys can't imagine the help you've been to me.  The inspiration I get from a thought here, a tidbit there, an experience someone else endured.  THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

This is amazing, you are amazing. Great work.

Mrs. Pomodoro

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #75 on: February 16, 2017, 03:12:38 PM »
Officially feel like a dead woman walking today. My boss and coworkers are generally nice people, but they're almost always running around (sometimes with their heads cut off) trying to get something to work. This morning I walked into my office while ppl were engaging in what seems like very important technical discussion that I have no interest in and no one bothered to say anything to me and vice versa and everyone's ok. I guess I've gained the invisible status now!

I gave a long notice (3 months) back in mid-January. I was on medical leave for 6 weeks last September. Since then my boss has been pretty understanding and I more or less hinted that I'm considering taking a break from work. He pleaded with me to give him as long a notice as possible if I make up my mind so he can work on finding a replacement. It's been about a month now and AFAIK he just talked to HR about opening the req, like, last week. All sorts of corporate politics going on recently pointed to the possibility that my position is either going to be moved to a different org or eliminated, but I really don't care anymore. I gave them a generous notice and will be leaving on mostly good terms so that's that.

It's kinda weird once I mentioned to others I'm leaving with no plan lined up for at least a year or two, I become more and more invisible on our floor. (I didn't disclose my FIRE intention, just said I need some time off for health reasons, which is kinda true.) Maybe I can stop showing up from time to time and see what happens, like the Cheshire Cat. Many ppl, including my boss, are going on vacation next ski week. I'll test my disappearing acts then...
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 03:19:23 PM by Mrs. Pomodoro »

Linda_Norway

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2017, 03:45:34 AM »
Officially feel like a dead woman walking today. My boss and coworkers are generally nice people, but they're almost always running around (sometimes with their heads cut off) trying to get something to work. This morning I walked into my office while ppl were engaging in what seems like very important technical discussion that I have no interest in and no one bothered to say anything to me and vice versa and everyone's ok. I guess I've gained the invisible status now!

I gave a long notice (3 months) back in mid-January. I was on medical leave for 6 weeks last September. Since then my boss has been pretty understanding and I more or less hinted that I'm considering taking a break from work. He pleaded with me to give him as long a notice as possible if I make up my mind so he can work on finding a replacement. It's been about a month now and AFAIK he just talked to HR about opening the req, like, last week. All sorts of corporate politics going on recently pointed to the possibility that my position is either going to be moved to a different org or eliminated, but I really don't care anymore. I gave them a generous notice and will be leaving on mostly good terms so that's that.

It's kinda weird once I mentioned to others I'm leaving with no plan lined up for at least a year or two, I become more and more invisible on our floor. (I didn't disclose my FIRE intention, just said I need some time off for health reasons, which is kinda true.) Maybe I can stop showing up from time to time and see what happens, like the Cheshire Cat. Many ppl, including my boss, are going on vacation next ski week. I'll test my disappearing acts then...

Congrats with your FIRE position. It's not nice of your colleagues to treat you as invisible.

You have a good chance of being able to sneak away during the week that most people take off. Or at least some of the days.

oneyearfromnow

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2017, 10:53:59 AM »
I am now officially the "Dead Woman Walking" at the office.  I gave my notice to retire two weeks ago, and they've only officially announced it last night.

My last day will be April 28th.    I had given a longer notice period mostly because I had hoped to pick up some part-time / contract gigs in a year or so.  I didn't want to burn any bridges.  They have been good to me - and for the most part I really enjoy working here.  It's also 1km away from my house.

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.  Fingers crossed - favourably.

In the meantime, I'm dreaming about the summer off.......
The husband and I are FIRE'd as of April 28, 2017.

Rusty_me

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2017, 04:58:50 PM »
As of about an hour ago I'm dead man walking to my managers. Supposed to get more of an exit plan lined up come friday but the process has begun. It quickly went from some sort of confidence to a bit of a shock that I'm actually taking this step in life. Here comes the future...ready or not. :)

Libertea

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #79 on: March 09, 2017, 11:37:34 AM »
Word from one of my former colleagues is that they've finally hired someone to replace me....in July.  That's going to be six months that my position went unfilled.  Wow.

oneyearfromnow

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #80 on: March 09, 2017, 07:35:26 PM »
I have always said that I would consider job sharing, and it was looking like there was never going to be any hope in that happening.  So I opted for retiring from full-time work.

But today, on my birthday, my replacement was announced.  She is about 10 years older than I, and also very much interested in job sharing......
The husband and I are FIRE'd as of April 28, 2017.

Mrs. Pomodoro

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2017, 02:50:50 PM »
As of about an hour ago I'm dead man walking to my managers. Supposed to get more of an exit plan lined up come friday but the process has begun. It quickly went from some sort of confidence to a bit of a shock that I'm actually taking this step in life. Here comes the future...ready or not. :)

Rusty_me, join the class of 2017 with us! We're taking that step in life together. :) http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/target-fire-2017/

Mrs. Pomodoro

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #82 on: March 10, 2017, 02:58:31 PM »
Congrats with your FIRE position. It's not nice of your colleagues to treat you as invisible.

You have a good chance of being able to sneak away during the week that most people take off. Or at least some of the days.

Thanks! I wonder if I'm also guilty because I participated less and less group discussions and lunches, but that's ok with me. Can't really stand another conversation about cable internet downloading cap and/or product release schedules.

My boss were looking for my office mate yesterday and looked mildly surprised when he saw me in the office. It's kinda funny and sad at the same time. Oh well, won't be a problem very soon. Very. Soon.

DollarDominatrix

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #83 on: March 13, 2017, 01:38:02 PM »
I am giving notice in two days and I am so excited!

We decided that I would only give 2 weeks notice so that my company couldn't claw back my bonus. I am going to offer that my boss can call me if she needs answers on something.

Otherwise I've been getting in trouble for being too happy: "something amusing to you?" Lol.
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TomTX

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #84 on: March 14, 2017, 06:51:30 AM »
I am giving notice in two days and I am so excited!

We decided that I would only give 2 weeks notice so that my company couldn't claw back my bonus. I am going to offer that my boss can call me if she needs answers on something.

Otherwise I've been getting in trouble for being too happy: "something amusing to you?" Lol.

Just be sure it's limited help (the occasional 10 minute phone call) - if they start wanting something more substantive, they should pay you contractor rates (something like 5x your previous salaried rate)
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DollarDominatrix

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #85 on: March 16, 2017, 08:41:26 AM »
Just be sure it's limited help (the occasional 10 minute phone call) - if they start wanting something more substantive, they should pay you contractor rates (something like 5x your previous salaried rate)

Thank you! I would love to have them pay me a contractor rate, although my guess is they would rather scramble within themselves than pay me anything. We shall see! :)
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JAYSLOL

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #86 on: March 19, 2017, 07:18:08 AM »
If the loss of two or three weeks salary messes up your FIRE plans, you aren't ready to FIRE.

You would be cutting it too close in that situation.

The only exception would be if you were to get a really big bonus if you stayed a few extra weeks.

Not the only exception, what if 2 weeks salary is equal to 20+ years spending?  It's possible.  :)

TomTX

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #87 on: March 19, 2017, 08:36:01 AM »
Just be sure it's limited help (the occasional 10 minute phone call) - if they start wanting something more substantive, they should pay you contractor rates (something like 5x your previous salaried rate)

Thank you! I would love to have them pay me a contractor rate, although my guess is they would rather scramble within themselves than pay me anything. We shall see! :)

Well, you are in the driver's seat. You get to make this a win-win choice for yourself.

Choice 1: They pay you a contractor rate (and do NOT undersell yourself. 5x is not a high estimate)

Choice 2: They stop bugging you!  You walk away to your FIRE life without work interruptions.
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mara

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2017, 06:49:49 AM »
I am sooo in the thick of this. I am a contractor and retired to part-time work in May 2015 by resigning all my accounts but one. This change gave me about 10 billable hours per week, which was perfect. Recently work got too busy again, making me dream about full retirement. I asked to offload some of my work, but instead they want to kick me up the ladder, giving my current position to someone else. That might be okay if work is reduced, but the new person wants to pick up work gradually. I'm collecting resumes for backup freelancers, but I really do not want to get stuck with managing, daily training, etc. Trying to be strong, I told them I want to be out of the current position by 5/24 (that's over 2 months notice), but my manager is worried about getting the paperwork done.

Maybe a lot of the management pushback against the standard 2 weeks notice is more about their paperwork than loyalty? If one of a worker's primary roles is to make life easier for the boss (it is, isn't it?), that's just their natural reaction to being given extra work. But, really, aren't HR departments there to help? Also, my replacement and I are contractors, so you'd think it would be a little easier.

I hope I can retire completely this year, but a little cash is still tempting. I may be another victim of OMY syndrome.


SeaKayEl

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #89 on: April 14, 2017, 09:13:57 PM »
I find it interesting when people refer to a loyalty to their employer.  Where does this feeling come from?  Are we being tricked into having emotions for our corporate employers?  Do we really owe them something for allowing us to keep working for them while they are profitable?  Or is it just a feeling of not wanting to inconvenience our beloved bosses and coworkers with our departure?  Or is it more a feeling of loyalty to the customers?

I may be wrong but it seems to me our employers owe us something.  And they settle their debt to us every pay day.

I can only speak on my situation, but I feel very loyal to my company...and by company I mean upper management.  It's the people I feel loyal to because of how they have treated me and interacted with me. 

For instance, not only does the COO know my name, he knows where I worked previously (and he is not the only one in upper management like this).  They have gone above and beyond what is expected out of an employer (in my opinion) and they treat me more like family than an employee.  This type of work environment is more important to me than benefits or a pay.  I would be hard pressed to find this type of dynamic at another company in my industry. 

gerardc

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #90 on: April 14, 2017, 09:51:33 PM »
Why does loyalty have to be a one way street?  I find the best relationship is two way loyalty.  I do X for a prearranged salary, knowing full well the company is making a profit on my efforts.  They train me and allow me to gain experience, I do the best I can with the resources they provide combined with my skills.  As long as it is a mutually beneficial arraignment, I will stick around.  If the company decides to get maximum benefit out of me while putting in minimum effort, I get rid of them.  If I put in minimum effort while trying to get maximum benefit, they should get rid of me.

This isn't what I call loyalty. This is what I call a transaction. I turn up to work because they pay me; they give me money because they make more money with my work. If I can get more money elsewhere, I will go and work there, if they can find someone to do my work more cheaply, they will fire me and hire that person.

That's neglecting the time it takes to train an employee or adapt, which is substantial, and is really the basis of loyalty. You could use the same argument for any type of loyalty, friendship, alliance between countries, etc. This is classic game theory. The feelings we have (attachment, love, spirituality) are in part geared to make us act loyally because it gives an edge.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2017, 08:29:52 AM »
Why does loyalty have to be a one way street?  I find the best relationship is two way loyalty.  I do X for a prearranged salary, knowing full well the company is making a profit on my efforts.  They train me and allow me to gain experience, I do the best I can with the resources they provide combined with my skills.  As long as it is a mutually beneficial arraignment, I will stick around.  If the company decides to get maximum benefit out of me while putting in minimum effort, I get rid of them.  If I put in minimum effort while trying to get maximum benefit, they should get rid of me.

This isn't what I call loyalty. This is what I call a transaction. I turn up to work because they pay me; they give me money because they make more money with my work. If I can get more money elsewhere, I will go and work there, if they can find someone to do my work more cheaply, they will fire me and hire that person.

That's neglecting the time it takes to train an employee or adapt, which is substantial, and is really the basis of loyalty. You could use the same argument for any type of loyalty, friendship, alliance between countries, etc. This is classic game theory. The feelings we have (attachment, love, spirituality) are in part geared to make us act loyally because it gives an edge.

Training time is part of the transactional calculation. It isn't what I call loyalty. I could maybe call it inertia.

My company does not have feelings for me. It looks at the value of the work that I produce, the salary they pay me and the estimated value (including training) and salary of a potential new hire. They then calculate and decide to continue to pay me or to fire me.

My company uses the word loyalty to try to get employees to work harder for the same money. This is in the company's interest and not the employee's interest. This isn't actual loyalty though: it is calculated emotional manipulation.

You don't work for my company. You might work for the kindest unicorns in the world. Good for you, be as loyal as you like. But know that your experience isn't universal.

steveo

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #92 on: April 19, 2017, 02:11:09 AM »
Posting to follow.

My contracted notice is six months, with an option for them to send me home immediately and pay me instead. My intention is absolutely for this to happen.

I am getting closer and closer to the point where if I get retrenched the payout would mean I'd never have to work again. I figure I need another year to be at that point but 2 years would be great. When I get to that point I think I will start pushing for a retrenchment however I'm thinking about how to approach it. If I push too hard they may try and keep me there.

I've seriously been working about 10-20 hours per week whilst getting paid as a full-time employee and I figure at some point they have to retrench me or give me more work. I just want to time it right.

avrex

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #93 on: April 20, 2017, 11:15:51 PM »
My company does not have feelings for me. It looks at the value of the work that I produce, the salary they pay me and the estimated value (including training) and salary of a potential new hire. They then calculate and decide to continue to pay me or to fire me.

My company uses the word loyalty to try to get employees to work harder for the same money. This is in the company's interest and not the employee's interest. This isn't actual loyalty though: it is calculated emotional manipulation.

^^^ This is bang on true!

Sure, some of us have had a kind/caring boss that we want to give extra notice to.

But make no mistake about this.  The big corporate entity, does not care about you.
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Infraredhead

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Re: Dead Man/Woman Walking....
« Reply #94 on: April 30, 2017, 11:02:17 PM »
I gave a three month notice out of professional courtesy.  I retired from teaching public high school and wanted the principal to find the best candidate for my students.