The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Post-FIRE => Topic started by: Retire-Canada on October 24, 2017, 10:40:35 AM
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(https://www.yourreadybusiness.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Vodafone-Downshifting2.jpg)
I downshifted back in July from a 40hrs/week contract gig + some side gig hours to a 3 x 8hrs/day Mon-Wed contract gig. With 4 months of part time work under my belt I am noticing I don't fit in well to the discussions FT workers are having nor do I resemble the lucky bastards who are FIRE. Downshifting seems to have its own unique set of benefits and challenges. So I figured it was worth starting a thread where MMMers who have reduced their work hours from FT, but haven't quite managed to FIRE yet can gather and chat.
FIRE related definitions are arbitrary, but they provide a framework to base discussion off of so here are mine:
- Working = greater than 75% FT hours
- Downshifted = 25% - 75% FT hours
- FIREd = less than 25% FT hours
So if you've downshifted I'd love to hear about:
- why you did it?
- what your downshift looks like?
- what do you like about it?
- what isn't so awesome about it?
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
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I'm looking at downshifting in 2020, moving down to 40hrs/per month, rather than per week.
Should be a fun change! I plan on working at places that I use money in FIRE in to reduce my expenses (work a few shift at a rockclimbing gym to get free membershift, same type of thing for brewery/wine making stores in order to borrow their cleaning apparatus/simplifying my own wine/beer making. In Winter I'm hoping to get a job on a mountain, in order to start learning to get quite good at skiing.
All of these I'm starting to get my foot in the door now (talking with owners/managers) in order to see which ones will allow such a barter type trade. It's a win-win, since most of their costs are fixed, no matter how many people are using the facilities, and my "volunteer" hours to pay for membership are all profit for them.
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In the last couple years before I FIREd, I sort of downshifted. I worked four-tens which are four days with ten hours per day so still 40 hours per week.
Having done that I would recommend that downshifters NOT do it. The three day weekend every week is great of course but the extra long days just drained me of all energy. So M-Th I would have no energy in the evenings to do anything and Friday would just be a recovery day.
I would recommend a three day weekend but still only work 8 hour days as a better way to start downshifting.
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I'm not sure if I will end up being a permanent downshifter, but I haven't been working full-time for over 3 years now. Back then I quit my full-time job, went off to travel for several months, then got back and started doing contingent/casual work. Recently I quit that and have gone off for another big trip (I'm currently travelling). I'm still open to the idea of going back to a full-time job, but I would prefer part-time. Something like 3-4 days a week, or around 25 hours a week would suit me, I think.
- why you did it?
After all the travels, I didn't particularly want to go back to full-time work. It just seems like so much work... :p I was still open to full-time jobs, but I definitely found myself being more attracted to part-time options when I was applying for jobs.
- what your downshift looks like?
As a casual worker, every week was different. I wouldn't mind doing casual again, but a more stable permanent part-time job with guaranteed hours would be good, too.
- what do you like about it?
So much more free time! Even with a rotating roster, I find this lifestyle more relaxing, as long as it averages out to significantly less than full-time hours. The pace suits me.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Earning less!
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Continue doing casual or part-time work, and continue doing mini-retirements with several months off (to travel or whatever) like the ones I've been doing. If I do go back to full-time work I'd still kind of consider myself to be a downshifter due to the planned inclusion of mini-retirements every few years.
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Why you did it?
I'm 48 and I am several years out from having my full FIRE $$ target saved/invested. I'm also very active and the more I think about trading my free time at the prime of my life away for $$ to reach FIRE the more it seems like I should be enjoying more free time now. I've got a limited amount of time left where I can mountain bike, surf, kiteboard, etc... at full fury levels so I want to get more sporty things done and work less while I can really enjoy them. My GF also has to work 8-9 more years FT to get a sweet pension so if I rush to FIRE I am not really free to do whatever I want anyways...unless I want to be single!
What your downshift looks like?
I'm working Mon - Wed 7am to 3am = 8hrs. I can easily take 4 or 5 weeks off a year. I'd like to push that towards 8 weeks+. I do quality management work for an aerospace composites manufacturing company. So 50% desk work and 50% walking around the factory looking at stuff.
What do you like about it?
Having 4 days off each week means I have tons of time to do whatever I want locally. I can deal with all my errands mid-week and then enjoy the weekend with my GF without any distractions. When I think about doing stuff I never have to say no because I just don't have the time. For example my cat wants to go on a 1hr random leashed walk? Sounds good. A friend needs help with their bike? Okay! I need to schedule a dentist appointment? Anytime Thurs or Fri works for me.
On a different tack living off a reduced income that is close to my FIRE budget is a great way to validate my planned spending in FIRE is realistic. I also get time to mentally/socially transition to FIRE instead of going from being a FT worker on day X and being a fully retired on day X+1.
What isn't so awesome about it?
As a FIRE aspirant the obvious issue with downshifting is that my high savings rate has gone to shit since I've traded savings for free time. That means my FIRE is delayed a while. My rough back of the napkin calculations show something like 2.5yrs to ~4%WR at FT work and 3.5yrs to ~4%WR at this level of downshift. So an extra year before FIRE to get that additional free time each week.
The other issue is having more free time is great, but most of my friends work FT so it's harder to find activity buddies mid-week. Luckily I have one younger friend who is a kept man and doesn't work, I have a couple friends near normal retirement age and then a couple friends who are retired. So there are a few options. I am also cunningly serially hanging out with friends who are taking their annual holidays.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I'm just going to roll along and see what happens. I'll probably FIRE at ~5%WR because I don't think I can wait the 3.5yrs my rough calculations show until I hit 4%WR. If possible I'll likely supplement my FIRE investment income with ~$8K-$10K/yr of side-gig work to keep my actual WRs closer to 4% and hopefully my investments will grow to the point where I can live on a 4%WR without any additional income.
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In the last couple years before I FIREd, I sort of downshifted. I worked four-tens which are four days with ten hours per day so still 40 hours per week.
Having done that I would recommend that downshifters NOT do it. The three day weekend every week is great of course but the extra long days just drained me of all energy. So M-Th I would have no energy in the evenings to do anything and Friday would just be a recovery day.
I would recommend a three day weekend but still only work 8 hour days as a better way to start downshifting.
I did the 4 x 10hrs thing for around a year prior to the downshift. I consider that still FT work because as you note it's a big energy suck. I do prefer 4 x 10hrs to 5 x 8hrs weeks because I don't feel like I do anything overly useful in the evenings on a 5 x 8hrs schedule anyways and I really really like having that extra day off each week. That said the 3 x 8hrs schedule is way better...low stress and lots of energy/time to do my personal stuff.
Of course everyone is different. I think a 30yr old me would love 4 x 10hrs or 3 x 10hrs schedules.
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I'm looking at downshifting in 2020, moving down to 40hrs/per month, rather than per week.
Should be a fun change! I plan on working at places that I use money in FIRE in to reduce my expenses (work a few shift at a rockclimbing gym to get free membershift, same type of thing for brewery/wine making stores in order to borrow their cleaning apparatus/simplifying my own wine/beer making. In Winter I'm hoping to get a job on a mountain, in order to start learning to get quite good at skiing.
All of these I'm starting to get my foot in the door now (talking with owners/managers) in order to see which ones will allow such a barter type trade. It's a win-win, since most of their costs are fixed, no matter how many people are using the facilities, and my "volunteer" hours to pay for membership are all profit for them.
At 40hrs/month you are retired in my books. I agree doing in PT work in areas you enjoy and where you would be spending your money anyways is smart. It's likely that I will work in at MEC [ie. REI in Canada] or a bike shop when I am FIREd.... at least at some point. My one issue with outdoors retail is the requirement to work weekends. So I'll have to see if I can score something mid-week like doing stocking/warehouse work. If that doesn't workout I'll stick to doing some very limited consulting gigs. Since the $$ are so much better I'd only have to do a few a year to make $8K - $10K.
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- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Continue doing casual or part-time work, and continue doing mini-retirements with several months off (to travel or whatever) like the ones I've been doing. If I do go back to full-time work I'd still kind of consider myself to be a downshifter due to the planned inclusion of mini-retirements every few years.
Did you have a fairly sizeable 'stach when you start travelling/PT work? Are you expecting that to grow to fund FIRE?
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PTF
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Did you have a fairly sizeable 'stach when you start travelling/PT work? Are you expecting that to grow to fund FIRE?
I was maybe about 30% on the way to FIRE when I did my first mini-retirement. Afterwards, when I did PT work, I was still able to save. So I'd like to continue with this work-part-time-and-still-add-to-the-stash path, if possible. I think I'm now about 40% on the way to FIRE? Just a rough estimate, it's kind of tricky to calculate now because my partner and I are newly joint-owners of an apartment and I'm not sure how much that will cost to maintain and improve in the long run.
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I don't know if this counts but since August of this year through FIRE (estimated 12/18 - 3/19) I'm only working 4 days a week (36 hours) drawing down leave balance. I did do the 4 10's for about a year a few years back and it was brutal especially since I had a commute on both ends.
I'm just tired. I also want to have more time to live life outside of work these days.
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My plan is to work FT until March 31 2020, where I will take a 6-12 month sabbatical, after which I would like to explore the possibility of a 3-4 day work week.
I will still be a ways away from my full FIRE # using 4%, but a large majority of my recurring day to day expenses should be covered.
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I'm in the process of downshifting to 3 to 4 days per week. I am a self-employed consultant. Prior to August, I was working on a contract basis for two different organizations. I dropped the smaller of the two contracts and am down to one client. It's a stable, long-term project, so I don't have many concerns about this being a sustainable arrangement for a few years.
Why you did it?
My husband is quite a bit older than me. I'm 40 and he's 68 (yep), so time is precious. We live in a sub-tropical environment, own a boat and play music together as a fun and not-very profitable side gig. We have plenty of things to keep us busy and I was spending way too much time with my ass in a chair in front of the computer.
What your downshift looks like?
I'm *trying* to work 9-5 on Tuesday-Thursday. At certain times (like the past two weeks when my project director forgot about a grant report deadline!), things get busier and I have to put in more time.
What do you like about it?
Um... Less time at work? Last week we declared Wednesday a play day and went boating with friends. We also took last Friday mostly off (I had a 1 hour phone call) to take a weekend trip. What's not to like about that? DH will be starting to claim his Social Security soon, so our income will actually be going up a bit. That's kind of nice, too!
What isn't so awesome about it?
Well, this is my own damn fault, but at the same time I let one contract expire, I made a commitment to do the Data Scientist Specialization on Coursera. It's taking more time that I expected, so my weeks are not as short as I hoped they would be.
I feel vulnerable having only one job! I've been working multiple contracts for 8 years, so having a single source of income is a bit scary.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I don't know that I'll 100% retire in the foreseeable future. DH still works on a part time basis and would like to work some hours as long as he is able. We are considering a different living situation, so our expenses might change. We also plan to do some pretty significant traveling in the next couple of years.
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PTF
I plan on not working summers (May-15th to Sept 15th) starting in 2018.
I believe that when working, I'd be doing 5x8hrs and up to 6x12 hrs when on field assignments (2wk to 1 month, no more than twice in 6 months).
I'm sort of easing myself in to coasting to May, but lots of stuff happens.
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Why you did it?
I've worked part-time for 22.5 years. I started it as a temporary episode after my first child was born. I then had another child and when my firstborn was 4 became a single parent. I liked it so much I just stayed part-time usually between 2- 3.5 days a week.
I didn't know it then but downshifting was becoming a thing in Australia as documented by the Australia institute.www.tai.org.au/documents/dp_fulltext/DP50.pdf (http://www.tai.org.au/documents/dp_fulltext/DP50.pdf)
and www.tai.org.au/documents/downloads/NL34.pdf (http://www.tai.org.au/documents/downloads/NL34.pdf)
I guess I was an early adopter and part of the movement described.
What your downshift looks like?
I currently work 3 days a week, somewhere between 8-10 hours each day. Every now and then I do a week on call which is full on.
What do you like about it?
I get to spend time doing stuff I like, mainly simple living things e.g. baking bread, growing vege etc
I have time to have life organised, run errands without wondering how I'm going to register the car and go to work at the same time.
I enjoy work more because I'm not so chronically burnt out and the quality of my work is improved.
Less stress.
What isn't so awesome about it?
The only downside is that I'm a bit limited in what I can put my hand up to do at work - some of the interesting things require a full-timer. At times the ambition gene bites and I become deluded that I want to achieve dizzying heights in my career again. A few self-administered face punches soon fixes that.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I'm barebones FI. I've just started a little realestate project that should top that up nicely when completed.
I will work 1 year more and go on 6 months long service leave. I will fully retire once the real estate project no longer requires cashflow/borrowing power. It would be nice if thats before I go back to work, but these things always take longer than expected. If I need to go back to work I might cut back to 2 days a week.
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Why you did it?
I am 45 and have many years of high stress engineering project work under my belt. I am the primary breadwinner and we have a couple of young teenagers. My industry is cyclical by nature and when we went into a downturn a couple of years ago I, along with others, volunteered to reduce my hours. I love having more time with the kids, time to play outside and still contribute to the office, earn a solid hourly rate and continue to save, albeit at a lower rate. My cohorts have returned to full time work, driven by financial need, but I am quite content to stay PT.
What your downshift looks like?
My role requires me to be available every day so I work about 5 hours each weekday, generally in the morning, and play outside with my dog in the afternoons.
(https://i.imgur.com/Y7jxtj2m.jpg)
What do you like about it?
Lower stress, more time, more freedom to do what matters to me. Lets me savour the last few years we have with the kids and enjoy the great outdoors. The stache is about 62% of what we need to FIRE, so still aways to go but we are at the point where the market returns have a bigger influence than my continuing contributions. Rough math shows that if I work FT I could FIRE in 5 years, continuing PT I would FIRE in about 7 years. I like the PT lifestyle so much that I do not feel the urgency to retire.
What isn't so awesome about it?
The adrenaline junkie in me misses the big roles on the big projects. I try to fill that need for adrenaline on bikes and skis but it isn't quite the same. I sometimes feel that I am not "being all I can be" as uncle sam would want for me.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I am going to try to stay PT until FIRE but if work really picks up and the office needs me back FT I would do it to support them. Being flexible increases my job security and I also genuinely want the team to be successful. And my consolation will be an earlier FIRE. Everybody wins.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1f/83/85/1f8385fcd90e7dcc035c95654c870a43--work-week-casual-fridays.jpg)
Thanks to every one sharing their downshifting stories. It's interesting to hear all the different combinations and permutations of part-time work.
I'm just wrapping up a few loose ends and then heading home after another long 3 day work week. ;) 24hrs feels like a great amount to work each week. It's enough to get a lot done if you are efficient and it forces you to focus on getting results. It's also enough money to fund a 50% saving rate lifestyle with no reductions in awesome.
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By your definition I'm Fired.
But I don't feel that way!
We have a small business, my wife continues to run the business,
In the slow season I'm working 1-1/2 day a week and 10 minutes everyday
unloading and preping for the next day. Busy season may double that or more.
Only working because my wife will work 85 hours a week if I don't, I get her down to 70 :-(
- why you did it?
I'm old, don't want or need to work, neither does she.
- what your downshift looks like?
I sit at the computer 4 or 5 hours a day, surfing, watching stocks, reading MMM.
Occasional hike, or bike, breakfast with the guys twice a week, electronics hobby fun
- what do you like about it?
Not having to WORK, No schedule.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
My wife still working, having to work at having enough enthusiasm to do things.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
More travel to see my kids and other sites.
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A little confusing. Where I come from, "downshifting" means to rev up and go faster... However, using the examples here, I hope to downshift with the rest of you in the next couple of years! :-)
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A little confusing. Where I come from, "downshifting" means to rev up and go faster...
Think of it as downshifting as you come to the red traffic light of retirement as opposed to downshifting to pass a truck on the highway. ;)
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I did this as of April 1st going to a 50% arrangement. I basically now go into the office two days a week and then handle whatever comes up the balance of the week via my phone. It seems to be going well as I am in the process of transitioning my role to my colleague. I signed a two year agreement to work in this fashion with my option to continue on as long as I wish thereafter (there are some financial incentives through the first two years). So to answer the questions:
why you did it?
Well I am FI at age 50 and while I enjoy what I do for a living, I don’t love it. There are other things to do and try in life and I would like to do them while health allows. We have no idea how long we have on this planet so my view is if you are not passionate about what you do for a living then you have no reason to continue doing so once you reach FI. If you are passionate about your occupation then you are truly blessed and I understand why you would continue on after reaching FI.
what your downshift looks like?
See intro above
what do you like about it?
Time! Since transitioning I have 1) read actual real books 2) gone skating for the first time in 35 years 3) biked more 4) tried pickleball 5) travelled to Paris, BC, England. I also feel like whatever stress my professional life added to my life is for the most part gone.
what isn't so awesome about it?
I do miss the social interaction of a work place. I have discovered that I need that interaction in my life so I need to get it elsewhere on those days I am not in the office. I was also surprised that my ego felt a little bruised when I no longer was ‘the man’ at work. I’ll get over that in time.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I want to continue to try new things. I also really need to lose 40 lbs so I want to kick that into gear. My wife will be working full time for another two years so I have that time to find my new routine. Not knowing what the rest of my life would look like was not in my view a reason to not make a change. The challenge is to now fill in those blanks.
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I down shifted from 60 hour weeks and extensive multi-week travel to a 40 hour week with mid week travel only. Back of the envelope calculations indicate that this has shortened my FIRE date due to lower cost of living.
One year in and I'm still adapting to the lack of stress, I can go whole weeks without needing asprin! The reduction in social status is a real thing, but I was never comfortable with my previous elevated status. I struggle to get my opinion respected internally in my new company but that is mostly because of communication challenges rather than anything else. With three dependents, FIRE date is still 5 years away but I intend to work "full time" at least until the youngest leaves home (in 10 years) as I actually enjoy the work.
I'm trying to spend more time practicing my musical instruments, but gigs keep on getting in the way. I am self taught and need to break down bad habits which might make me play worse before I play better. I have very little talent so the next 10 years of "wood shedding" are needed to get me a nice side income in retirement.
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Great thread idea.
I downshifted from 30-40 hours a week to 15-20 this year. I'm lucky to work for myself so I also can work whenever (insomnia? go do some welding!) I want.
- why you did it?
I wanted to spend more time with my kids and wife, and we also completed a basement apartment remodel in January which brings in ~40% of our total spending needs. It seemed silly to keep missing art projects at school and bike rides just to make more money.
- what your downshift looks like?
A very chaotic schedule (which is fine) involving me mostly working 2-3 hours a day, "scheduled" around kids activities, exercise, and volunteering. I'll work more hours occasionally to get ahead a bit so we can go out of town for a week or two.
- what do you like about it?
I like still being engaged with work (though in theory I could quit and we could just barely get by on passive income sources) and having a *little* bit of stress about getting projects done on time. Obviously the flexibility and free time to do fun stuff is huge.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
On occasion I screw up or get backed up and have a bit more stress than I'd like, but that would probably happen regardless of whether I was working full time or not. I would probably be more efficient working longer hours, there's some wasted time getting set up in the shop and back into the task I was working on. Overall, there's not much to dislike.
I have to admit that I enjoy watching account balances grow, too. It hurts a little bit to not be putting away $5k/month anymore (instead it's only $3k or something). But that accumulation mindset is what I'm trying to defeat now, like many people here who are FIRE.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I doubt I'd downshift further or fully quit, unless my health forced me to or something. My wife will probably return to some form of part time work after our 3 year old goes to kindergarden, so then we'll be rolling in extra dough. At that point we'll need to think about long term plans - take the whole family abroad for a year or two to learn Spanish? Keep accumulating indefinitely? Give more money to charity? Regardless, I don't think I'd quit my job entirely, it's too enjoyable.
-W
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I'm currently 51 and I've had mini-retirements as they're called my entire career. They've been the product of burnout rather than planned breaks though. Fortunately, I was frugal enough to handle it financially. My financial situation is getting to where I could retire pretty soon, but I kind of like what I do so I don't really want to retire. I can't say I love it but I don't want to get out if it either.
I'm currently contracting for a smallish consulting company and have been offering to take time off between projects when they have project shortages. This is just starting, and I'm currently nervous about the situation. I'll go from living off 1/3 my income to 1/2 my income. This still leaves a lot of money left over for saving/blowing on useless but fun stuff but it's a change. I woke up the other night with some anxiety over it. I'm sure this will pass though. It's just a big change of attitude for me.
- why you did it?
My wife & I don't have children or anyone to leave all the extra money to when we die so why keep earning as much as possible. I have some things I want to blow money on but time will provide for that.
- what your downshift looks like?
Working 45hrs/week when on a project but off between projects. I'm hoping for about 3/4 time. I'm currently hourly so it's not an issue but I'm trying to make this a permanent position because of the high cost of health insurance and the fact that it's not deductible. I have a slight margin advantage with that, plus it puts the company a little more on the hook for keeping me busy.
- what do you like about it?
Free time for hobbies, which also means spending more. Hopefully, having the time built in will reduce job burnout for me.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Some anxiety about having less money.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Work for as long as I'm able, but possibly slowing down more as I age. Unfortunately, I don't travel well. I have special dietary needs. This means I'm somewhat of a homebody.
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I guess I fall into the "Working category (Working = greater than 75% FT hours) but I'm going to post anyway. I negotiated a 32 hour/week position when I changed jobs this past August. There are some weeks I work more but I haven't worked more than 38 since starting. I'm a 32 year old Software Engineer but while my title hasn't changed I'm not really writing code at my new position.
- why you did it?
To spend less time at work. Also I'd been at my old position for 6 years and I liked the idea of change. That being said, I wouldn't have taken the new position if I wasn't offered an increase in hourly pay and a decrease in hours.
- what your downshift looks like?
I work 32 hours / week, Mon-Thurs. If I need another day off though they have been fine with letting me shift me schedule around. I only get 6.4 hours off per holiday, but I am still receiving full vacation time and full benefits.
- what do you like about it?
Less time at work! This has allowed me to catch up on some personal stuff that was lagging behind. I'm also able to read more and study and play poker more (which I eventually plan on making a FIRE side hustle).
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I don't like the work as much as what I was doing before, but I still think the trade off was in my favor. Also everyone making snarky comments about my schedule. I think that mostly stems from jealousy though (and their inability to get by on 80% of their paycheck). It has slowed down my march to FIRE but not significantly. I'm still maxing out pre-tax accounts and able to save money in my taxable account as well. It's probably adding 1-3 years depending on how the market behaves (I probably had 4-5 years when I left my old job).
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I think a year before FIRE I'd like to request moving down to ~24 hours and/or working from home 1 day per week. If my company doesn't like that idea I might try and find a work from home gig even if it's full time to bridge the gap to my FI number. I'm thinking I'll try to earn 1/5 or more of my annual expenses in retirement so I will pick up some work post FIRE but it'll probably not be engineering work because I doubt I can find a position w/ so little "on time".
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Currently still working, though I only work 11 months/year. I'm hoping to cut back a little bit to 4 days a week during those 11 months in the next year or so, which will put me at about 73% over the year. My spouse shares a job with someone else and works 3 days a week. His job share partner works 3 days also and they overlap on Wednesdays. In both cases, as long as we're working 50%+ we keep our benefits and accrue leave (though the accrual is pro-rated).
Like many here, we value time more than money and can live on less. We're currently still saving a decent amount with this arrangement and we're pretty big fans. We did a bunch of relaxing, house projects, and traveling when we first started. Even with me still working full time, our life has gotten a lot more relaxed and fun, because he's taking care of some of the adulting stuff while I am at work, and our weekends and evenings can be much less work and much more fun stuff. Lately, I've been having some health issues and it's been really helpful to have someone who has a bit more time and space to care for the house and our dog, since my energy levels have been quite low.
We plan to continue to work part time until we hit FIRE numbers, and maybe beyond. If the job share ever dissolves, my spouse may switch to contracts, working a few months a year and having the rest of the time off, in lieu of working part time year round. We both like what we do but would like to do it less.
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By your definition I'm Fired.
But I don't feel that way!
We have a small business, my wife continues to run the business,
In the slow season I'm working 1-1/2 day a week and 10 minutes everyday
unloading and preping for the next day. Busy season may double that or more.
Only working because my wife will work 85 hours a week if I don't, I get her down to 70 :-(
- why you did it?
I'm old, don't want or need to work, neither does she.
- what your downshift looks like?
I sit at the computer 4 or 5 hours a day, surfing, watching stocks, reading MMM.
Occasional hike, or bike, breakfast with the guys twice a week, electronics hobby fun
- what do you like about it?
Not having to WORK, No schedule.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
My wife still working, having to work at having enough enthusiasm to do things.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
More travel to see my kids and other sites.
Dang are we clones?
Just add my freelance work to it, I'm not considered old yet at 43 and the kids are still at home.
Wife, small business, surfing on the laptop and having fun all the same :)
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I gave up semi-retirement to go back fulltime for 2 years which somehow stretched to 6. After 2 years my wife decided time was right to retrain and become a midwife,with 2 teenage kids made sense t have 1 fulltime income coming in (previously we'd both done 10-20 hrs per week each). When she graduated I wanted to renovate our small bach (NZ for holiday home) to prepare it to become our longer term main residence. No way she would allow me to do that without a fulltime income so did one more year full time).
What your downshift looks like?
Chucked in job and this year to ease into retirement have been working for a charity developing and delivering literacy programmes Mon-Weds, spending a couple of days a week at my bach, playing sports ettc, Did a bit of travel (took kids on their first overseas holiday, my wife and my first one in 20 years). The kids they had to save for half their airfares and all their spending money from their after school jobs at McDonald's.
- what do you like about it?
4 day weekends every week.
More time to work on my rental properties- have done 3 reno projects in the past few months.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Going back to work on Monday's. Am over it really. Should have only done 2 days per week, longer I am on these hours the less I want to do them and keener I am for full FIRE! I saw this as an easing back into retirement and not looking at continuing this role next year.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Am heading overseas for 12 months working fulltime for free! Heading to Kiribati as a volunteer for 12 months starting late Jan with a New Zealand based NGO that does a lot of work in the Pacific. Kiribati is a small country at the equator facing lots of issues, including loss of their very limited land area due to sea level rise (max elevation is 3 metres above sea level). Looking forward to getting way out of my comfort zone and being able to utilise my skills to support a tertiary organisation over there.
Had wanted to getting into development work years ago and did a post grad qual in it but other things happened so am now getting back onto that track and hoping to spend quite a bit of time over the next 10 years involved in volunteering projects around the world, funded in part by my rental property portfolio.
Craig
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I guess we are still working by the OP definition at 32 hours per week, but it sure feels like downshifting!
Why did you do it?
Life is short. A cliche, but when your dad dies at 53 like mine did, the closer you get to his age (I'm less than a decade now), it develops a little more oomph. DH has a chronic condition, so the healthcare that comes with my job is crucial. This way we can spend less time at work but still reap most of the benefits, including retirement accounts that we continue to feed.
What does it look like?
Fridays off, but flexible to move days. We work a 40hr week every now and then; typically it's our choice and not a directive. We work for small organizations.
What do you like?
A) More time away from work. 3 days where we can wake up when our bodies tell us to instead of the alarm. 3 days to get projects done around the house; it's nice to not have to rush or feel bummed that we couldn't get everything on the list done.
B) Less time needed to take vacations. Luckily, DH is keeping his full vacation accrual. Mine is prorated, but I have so many hours already that it will take a long time to draw it down.
What isn't so awesome?
Some people are having a hard time wrapping their brains around our new schedules. See the thread about "The Look" and you'll get an idea. I have a hard time not adding work to my plate, out of interest. Have to curb that, which is sometimes a bummer.
What are your plans going forward?
Just started in July, so still seeing how things play out. We are pretty close to our projected annual spend, so I am optimistic we are on target. Plan to work 5-10 more years. Health insurance situation for US citizens is likely to be THE deciding factor on FIRE for us. (hopefully the market won't make me eat crow for that last sentence).
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Why you did it?
My work lets me work from home one day per week. I don't really do much work. Sometimes I've done this 2-3 days per week but at the moment it's one day per week. I intend to do it more as I get closer to FIRE because it will give me more time to do harder physical activity. I'm 44 now and I do jiu-jitsu. My body is already struggling and at some point I'll have to quit. I want to do jiu-jitsu as much as possible prior to not being able to do it all.
What your downshift looks like?
I get to work from home one day per week. I can't really call it downshifting but I'm going to push it a little because I intend to expand on this when I get closer to FIRE. So my wife will quit work in 2020. Hopefully we will be at a 5% WR by then and I will work part time for a couple of years and then retire.
What do you like about it?
I spend my work from home day going to the gym, eating well and having the house to myself. I love the time out from work and the time to myself.
What isn't so awesome about it?
Currently for me there is no downside.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I intend to work less - 4 days paid per week with one day working from home - within the next 2-3 years. Then I intend to work for another 2-3 years and then quit work completely.
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PTF ...
plan to downshift to 4 day weeks at the birth of child one and possibly 3 day weeks at child 2... hopefully child one arrives sometime next summer!
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PTF. This is my plan too, so it's good to hear how it's worked out for others. I'll probably hit my RE number before my original 2020 goal, but I may cut back to 4 or 3 days a week instead of quitting entirely. Ideally, I'd do that for a year or two and see how it feels.
It'll be a nice way to test the waters of early retirement, to make sure I won't be bored with a slower-paced life before I commit myself. Plus, given all the uncertainties around health care, it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a few more years of employer-paid insurance before I venture out into the individual markets.
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Does anyone here have a large perk attached to staying employed at least half the year. I do with my company. Just wondering how the company feels about it. I do know my bosses husband who works for us is quite leveraging this part of our system so it would be quite difficult to say I can't do the same.
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I'll play.....
Why you did it?
The biggest motivator was the job itself. Some folks can sit in a cubicle four 8 hours everyday for 40 years. I lasted 10 years and that was good for me. I never had a job before that had me sitting for so long. I like activity not sedentary. I like learning new things not applying the same knowledge and methods over and over again. It was also great for family life. I am home each day when the kids leave for school and get off the bus. I take on more house chores.
What your downshift looks like?
Currently just working side jobs. Brought in some good cash rebuilding a deck for some friends of ours. Have some house rehab work coming up for a cousin. And one of my wife's co-workers has some home projects she is passing off to me soon. I also occasionally build furniture. I did stay on as a part-time contractor through my previous employer. It's been 4 months and they haven't called me back in once. But that is likely to change as the end of year approaches and folks take their vacations while they are trying to get projects completed and on the books. My old boss has already called me a couple times to determine my availability over the next couple of months.
What do you like about it?
Everything. Waking up relaxed and planning my day. Working out when I want to. Working on projects that I actually enjoy. Watching the sun rise. No traffic jams.
What isn't so awesome about it?
Not having a steady income. Sometimes I worry even though I shouldn't. I still need to bring in some cash to help pay bills, but don't really need to save. I like to have built up cash reserves for the next 5-6 months of expenses. But when that starts to dwindle, it worries me.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Nothing really. Ramp up projects outside of my own house I guess. My wife still has her full time job and plans on keeping it for another 9-10 years after which we'll both full time RE. Just keep on keepin!
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Does anyone here have a large perk attached to staying employed at least half the year. I do with my company.
If I drop below 24 hours as a standard work week I lose my health benefits, my vacation accrual become prorated, and I would be no longer eligible to participate in the stock option program. So I do not plan to ever drop below 24 hr/week before I FIRE. But that is just fine with me. I can have a rich and fulfilling life working 24hrs/week.
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Not specifically but if I reduce less than 3 days a week things don't work well. If I drop to 2 and a half days, then the half day always tends to be nearly a whole day, for less pay. My job doesn't modify to fit 2 days a week well without major compromises, and that gets irritating with not enough momentum/ continuity. All my entitlements are pro-rata so thats OK.
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Yeah i'm more concerned about how i approach it. at 30 years old its hard to say i just want more time to myself. --- Thats why i want to gear it around the birth of children b/c i feel like thats a societally acceptable norm. alternatively i run a charity and could request it so that i have more time to work on that and grow my events. Just hard to approach in a "norm"al way at such a young age. But then again my bosses husband took most of this year to explore his passion of running biking events while still staying partially employed. So it will be an interesting conversation when i have it.
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PTF because downshifting is part of my semi-FIRE plan. But I'm also going to cheat and answer the questions hypothetically.
Why you will do it?
Live more, work less!
What your downshift will look like?
First go from 5x8=40 down to 4x8=32 for a year or two. Then 3x8=24 or possibly 4x6=24. Ultimately something like 4x5=20 or (2x8)+(1x4)=20
What do you expect to like about it?
Less health-killing sedentary work, more time to be active and spend time with family, hobbies, etc.
What might not be so awesome about it?
I'll probably no longer be the go-to person for high-profile/interesting/challenging work assignments. It's also possible that I'd be more likely to be laid off than a full-time employee.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
We've achieved barebones FI recently, but still need high income to support some short-term expenses. We also still need a bit of time to let the stash grow to support our preferred FIRE lifestyle.
However, our retirement saving is becoming relatively insignificant compared to market returns. Downshifting becomes feasible in a few years when our living expenses drop. I'd like to shift to 80% in 3 years, then gradually down to 50%. Then it's just enjoying health insurance + other benefits for OMY while the stash grows.
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Why you will do it?
Currently planning a family and i'd like to be a part of their young lives more than weekends and after work
What your downshift will look like?
I've got 2 plans
1. Go to 4-8s at the birth of first child then 3-8s at the birth of second child
2. Start taking summer sabaticals
What do you expect to like about it?
Freedom to spend time with my family- i actually think work will get more out of me with more decompression time. - more time to travel in the summer to see national parks with plan b
What might not be so awesome about it?
I like to do what i'm not supposed to be doing at the time so I'll probably end up doing some work while i'm off and non work while i'm working
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Baby 1 should hopefully come in 2018 - have the conversation with my boss at my review in 2018 and decide whats doable. they may offer up 9-80s which i may start with before i downshift to 4-8s but we'll see.
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Why did you did it?
We had a kid. It allowed me to spend more time with my kid, and also save on daycare costs than if i had worked full time. I've been on this schedule since he was 6 months old, and now he's 4. My wife also works a 30-hr schedule, and she takes one day a week off. Grandma covers the other 2 days.
What does your downshift looks like?
I work 30 hr weeks, three 10-hr days Tuesday through Thursday.
What do you like about it?
I get Mondays and Fridays off (generally, see below). That's awesome. And I spend much of those days with my kid (he's in preschool half the day now).
What isn't so awesome about it?
The clients at my work DO work Mondays and Fridays, and i have some responsibility to them. So sometimes I have to work a few hours to take care of something at some point over my 4-day weekend. That gets filed under "Mustachian people problems." Usually i just make a couple phone calls or emails to keep things rolling on those days, and it is no big deal at all.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
This is a big question I haven't decided. If i worked full-time once my kid is in full-time school, i could reach FIRE faster. But I'm also thinking, what's the point? I already have substantial extra time. It seems like a variant of the "one more year" phenomenon.
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Yeah i'm more concerned about how i approach it. at 30 years old its hard to say i just want more time to myself. --- Thats why i want to gear it around the birth of children b/c i feel like thats a societally acceptable norm. alternatively i run a charity and could request it so that i have more time to work on that and grow my events. Just hard to approach in a "norm"al way at such a young age. But then again my bosses husband took most of this year to explore his passion of running biking events while still staying partially employed. So it will be an interesting conversation when i have it.
Yes I found I needed a societally acceptable narrative. Having kids was the perfect start, and once I was a single mum I could ride on that for a long time. Altruistic pursuits like a charity would work I think.
Once folks get used to you working part-time it gets easier. I know a professor who went to 4 days a week for a specific reason fro a year, then just stayed that way. He told me no one really noticed /worried so he just stayed that way but never really mentioned it to anyone.
Now my kids are grown, firstly I've developed an auto immune disease that causes fatigue, so this seems acceptable to my bosses. Also I DGAF what anyone thinks at this point.
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PTF out of interest
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I've "downshifted in place", unintentionally.
My boss got fired on my 3rd day in this job, then a few weeks later the one who did the firing quit.
I've only been going into the office 1-2 days a week. Working from home while the weather is nice. I work enough to meet the requirements but am enjoying this temporary arrangement before I either get fired or motivated back to production.
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Why?
My job was stressful although rewarding. The stress was effecting my health. I had enough financial cushion to take a little risk.
What does it look like?
Right now I'm working as a private math tutor 7-10 hours a week. I also have a side hustle of rust-belt-rentals, which is what really pays the bills and takes very little of my time. With my remaining time I'm advertising my services, doing pottery, walking the dogs, cooking, cleaning, reading, hiking, volunteering, driving the kid around and gardening. I can pick up more hours at a lesser rate as a sub right now but haven't done that yet. My goal is to have a good work-life balance work four days a week and do 4-8 hours a day. A perfect day would be running the dogs, pottery, tutor sessions in the afternoon followed by dinner.
What I Like
I like that every day is different. I like being in charge of my own time. I like the variety of my days and being in charge of prioritizing what's important. I like feeling like I'm doing this.
What's not so great
Right now I'm not making as much money as I'm spending. Although this was planned, it is still stressful. Sometimes going to work was a nice break from family life and drama. No health insurance, no pension...
Plans
Keep finding clients and filling my time. I've given myself until April to be "successful" in my shifting. If I'm not successful
then I will go back to full-time employment.
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Why I did it?
I was craving free time, craving a 'natural' schedule, fantasising about my ideal life, and sometimes dreading going to work.
What my downshift looks like?
I work freelance for 20 hours a week, earning the same as when I worked 50 hours for a salary.
What do I like about it?
The free time, getting more sleep, slower mornings, not going to meetings, pursuing my ideas, day-dreaming, and never dreading work (because I am in control of it).
What isn't so awesome about it?
Well it is pretty awesome. I miss the camaraderie at work a little bit and I feel as though I could have achieved more highly if I had stayed at work. In a way I wasn't done with it, ambition-wise. But that is a price I am happy to pay.
What are my plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Keep doing what I'm doing, enjoying the freedom to adjust how much work I take on and how much I earn. Enjoy saving and investing. Could be FI now if we sold the house but don't want to kick young adult children out and want to be near ageing parents.
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- why you did it?
Because I could. Once I realized it was an option there was very little thought process on the side of not doing so. Why work more when you can not work more? - what your downshift looks like?
I used to work a 40 hour a week IT job. I did have lots of WFH, but I sure don't miss it overall. I was only in the real job marketplace for 2 years. I left at 25, have been doing my own thing for 2 years, now 27.
I coach a high school team that pays a small stipend, I consider this a volunteer job, and I would do it regardless of needing the small amount of money it gives me. This is around 15 hours a week. When I think "how many hours did I work this week?" I don't generally consider these hours as part of that. I was doing this also while I worked my old job.
I also do private tutoring for $45/hour. I need to work 7 hours a week to meet my spending, but usually do between 10 and 15 so that I can add to savings and vacation/lavish spending budgets.
However you want to look at it I have cut at least 25 hours of work out of my life every week. - what do you like about it?
Sleeping in. Sometimes I get unsolicited job offers and I occasionally look into them and then I remember how much I hate waking up at 7. Getting errands done during the day. Going to the dog park every day. Eating lunch with my boyfriend at home. Not having a boss. Being in charge of my entire business process. - what isn't so awesome about it?
Running a business isn't always fun, sometimes it's stressful. My work can only happen during non-school hours, which does interfere with some social life things. I haven't noticed the less money on a day to day basis, since I still make more than I have ever spent. - what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I haven't completely decided. I can save nothing and be FI at 50ish. That's not what I'm doing right now but I haven't set a hard plan for the balance between work more now or fewer hours longer.
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Why work more when you can not work more?
Exactly! This was my thought many years ago!
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Why work more when you can not work more?
Exactly! This was my thought many years ago!
In my case now: fulltime work makes more money, which makes total FIRE come sooner. As I can`t wait to FIRE, I want to achieve it as fast as possible. Even thought I would benefit a lot from downsizing. But maybe, if we reach a certain amount of money too early, so that we cannot start taking out the 4%, we might work part time for a year.
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Why work more when you can not work more?
Exactly! This was my thought many years ago!
In my case now: fulltime work makes more money, which makes total FIRE come sooner. As I can`t wait to FIRE, I want to achieve it as fast as possible. Even thought I would benefit a lot from downsizing. But maybe, if we reach a certain amount of money too early, so that we cannot start taking out the 4%, we might work part time for a year.
In my case I'm making more hourly from my freelance work than my full time job. I figure total hours worked in my lifetime will be lower this way.
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I downshifted by replacing a high stress, long hour, high paying private sector job for a low stress, no overtime but lower paying public sector job. My contract is for 37 hr work week, and I give no more than that, and after being on call 24 x 7 as a front line manager in the international oil patch, it still feels like I am semi- retired 5 years into it.
I did this for mental health and work life balance, but I only felt able to do this because I was already FI. My stash is large enough to FIRE by many MMMers standard, but I want a larger cushion/more fun money so I will continue to work a few years more at a job I don't hate. I am no longer aggressively saving, rather letting my stash increase in value until it converges with my annual spending, I am also building more equity in my house too. My take home pay (after mandatory pension contributions) is currently around where I want to keep my annual spending, and my FIRE stash is already 82% funded for that so it is just a matter of how the markets play out - if the valuation stays stagnant, it will take a maximum of 6 years to get where I want, just through pension contributions and dividend payments. I expect to be FIRE in half that time though as I am not a pessimist.
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- why you did it?
Before my current position, I was at a company that was growing very quickly. For the last three to four years of it, almost all I did was work - long days, weekend days (to “catch up,” which obviously never happened). The culture got toxic and I was burnt out; the company getting sold was the end of the line for me, as I had no loyalty to the new owners. I agreed to go to work for a friend at his one-man operation; he wanted to grow the business, but needed someone to do the books and admin. I agreed, on the condition that I could buy in if I thought it made sense after getting the books in order (seeing the shareholders of the company I left get 80x their investment after eight years may have influenced my desire to want a piece of ownership;).
Being burnt out, I wanted more time off, so I said I’d only do four days per week. It was enough for the first few years (with some f/t weeks thrown in at busy times), but 2017 got very busy and I was back to f/t and NEVER caught up. I didn’t want to work this much and I have no need to work this much.
- what your downshift looks like?
Partway through this year, I hired someone to take over the day-to-day aspects of the business and I immediately got back to four days per week. She is very solid in the position now, and I am CAUGHT UP (an amazing feeling that I never thought I’d feel again) and ready to reduce down to my goal of half time (two office days and an hour or two from home on the other days). This starts next week. I will have to increase to f/t to cover off holidays, but that’s only a few weeks per year.
- what do you like about it?
I know I’m going to love driving less (it’s a 30 minute commute each way, and winter always brings frustrating traffic delays). I will enjoy having more free time to read, do house projects, cook, visit friends/family... whatever I want, really. I have badly wanted this for a long time and I feel a deep sense of satisfaction that it’s finally happening.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I’m a bit worried that I will feel out of the loop, but I’m sure I will get over it!
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Assuming this goes well, I think I would be quite happy to be 20-50% time for the next five years at least. I would not want to be a completely uninvolved shareholder, so unless the company gets sold or one of my partners wants to purchase my shares, I will be there in a financial oversight capacity.
The retirement stash is enough now for barebones RE, so working p/t will cover all regular expenses as it grows. My husband is still working for a year or two. The company is also paying dividends which, if it continues to grow as it has, could more than fund our modest lifestyle. Given this, it’s possible that we have oversaved, but nothing is guaranteed.
I’ve been wanting to get more involved in my community league and saw that the Treasurer position is open. I emailed about it and I seem to have gotten the (volunteer!) job, so that will take up some of my new free time. It’s a good match for my skill set and I’ll be able to meet some new people who live nearby (not easy to do when one has no children).
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Just turned 48, 1 kid aged six. Dual income family. Downshifted from suits, planes, meeting Central Bank Governors etc etc blah blah to copywriter and editor 24 hours a week, using the sole trader model. Initially FIREd completely at 45, then gradually built up my own business in the last 2 years. Have sold 24 pieces of my own writing this year (journalism, poetry and short stories) and have two books ready to pitch to editors in the new year.
Why did you do it?
I no longer recognised the person I thought I was. I did not know the person I'd become: earning $250,000 per year and flying around US Canada and Europe doing something I hated with a bunch of emotionally limited egomaniacs. I did two literature degrees on scholarships and was a published novelist, reviewer and writer of poems. The day job had seriously started to get in the way of my home life, my ambitions and interests. Having supported my wife through an MSc and PhD, it was time to change once she'd started earning.
What do I like?
No suits, no offices, no politics. No people making assumptions about who I am and what I like based on where I work and how I (had to) dress. Time to write my own stuff, dress how I want, exercise and above all look after my boy. I went back to London -- where I worked for 10 years -- last year and everyone who was still on the treadmill looked 10 yrs older than me.
What don't I like?
Less cash. But income has grown now to the point where we are able to enjoy a few luxuries and I am writing this from a spendypants hotel at a very well known ski resort.
Plans
Carry on for as long as possible. Currently zero interest in retiring because I like my work and only work 25 hrs a week. Am going to post my 2-years-in update in the forum soon (I only post once every six months or so) so that will tell you more... FWIW still adding cash to the stash to the tune of approx. C$26,000 per year. Stash is circa C$1 mil liquid and growing at an aggregate 6.8% per year over the last 2 years as well. But Canada is not a cheap place to be, especially not the left coast!
BA
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Sounds like a great plan BA.
When I downshifted 2 decades ago, I let go of the "opportunity" to fly around the world presenting at conferences as a world expert, blah , blah, blah. Its pretty well heresy to say that in my profession, but I hated all the drama of flying, disliked staying in prestigious hotel rooms, and being away from home. I have the ability to do it, but it didn't increase my pay rate per hour ( probably decreased if you counted all the extra time spent travelling), and I really wasn't after the honour and the glory just for the sake of it, with, as you said so aptly, a bunch of "emotionally limited egomaniacs".
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Why you did it?
I've been a successful academic but I wound up with a windfall from a family real estate property. Students today are not motivated much, don’t do the readings, and whine about not getting As. Since I taught in an Ivy, I knew there wasn’t anywhere better to go. The thrill was gone. Plus I wanted to go into a related creative field so this gave me time to pursue that. My position had been non tenure track and I had no interest in another job search or moving again.
Add to this my health was going in the crapper.
What your downshift looks like?
I teach two weeks out of ever semester in a school overseas that doesn’t pay much, about $9k a semester after expenses (which isn’t bad given the time invested) but against which I can deduct a ton of expenses, books, creative supplies, even the last round of car payments; plus I wind up going to do other things overseas when I get there.
I have been there for over a decade (I used to moonlight there and helped found the program) so I have lots of friends I generally enjoy seeing.
What isn't so awesome about it?
Teaching isn’t just what you do in the classroom; it involves lots of prep time. I avoid most, but not all, of the mindless administrivia. The rate is a fraction of what I used to get since I would be paid for 4 full time courses when I was full time and that would have been about $25k a course by now.
I am cheap and don’t like to travel or stay in hotels plus the city itself is ho hum so when I go there I typically teach the whole first day; that is hell on two hours of airplane sleep.
The administration are ludicrously stupid, McKinsey Consultant trainee types and enjoy throwing roadblocks into the path of foreign faculty seeking to get paid.
I love deductions. I hate doing taxes. Then again, last year I had zero income taxes, so no bad.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Comrade Trump and his minions are screwing me over every way he can. We live in a state with high local taxes. I don’t mind them since my kids are learning to write better papers than graduate students in the Ivies can today (nobody seems to remember what a thesis is). That’s going to cost me and we predicated my retirement on Obamacare being around. Thanks to the Republicans, insurance is going from $1200 a month with a $4500 In network deductable to $1700 with a $6000 deductable (roughly, I’m in my iPad so could be off marginally). Blue Cross blames Trumpcare and no way am I giving money to Oscar, which is run by Jared’s family, even if it is cheaper (and I hate HMOs so no Amerihealth). I am going to talk to a local college about teaching a course a term to get on their medical insurance. That will mean four a year which is full time. Somehow I’m hoping that won’t be too onerous.
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Hi smoghat--sorry for the hijack, but I'm wondering how you got into the teaching overseas gig. I am also in higher ed and am about to retire, and would love to get into a gig like yours. Please PM me if you'd rather not offer up the details here. By the way, I totally hear you about students not being motivated these days. :( Thanks!
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Sounds like a great plan BA.
When I downshifted 2 decades ago, I let go of the "opportunity" to fly around the world presenting at conferences as a world expert, blah , blah, blah. Its pretty well heresy to say that in my profession, but I hated all the drama of flying, disliked staying in prestigious hotel rooms, and being away from home. I have the ability to do it, but it didn't increase my pay rate per hour ( probably decreased if you counted all the extra time spent travelling), and I really wasn't after the honour and the glory just for the sake of it, with, as you said so aptly, a bunch of "emotionally limited egomaniacs".
Thanks Happy, that's good to hear. In my community there's a former KPMG dude who was forcibly retired at 45 then set up his own accountancy firm in rural BC which is now thriving the way he wants it to. Like hearing it from you, having him tell me I'd done the right thing and that time with my child was worth any amount of money and alleged "prestige" was reassuring to me. And the egomania thing is stunning... do these people think they are the Dalai Lama, rather than a banker or whatever who's made a few bucks?
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Hi smoghat--sorry for the hijack, but I'm wondering how you got into the teaching overseas gig. I am also in higher ed and am about to retire, and would love to get into a gig like yours. Please PM me if you'd rather not offer up the details here. By the way, I totally hear you about students not being motivated these days. :( Thanks!
PM’d.
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Thanks!
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I've "downshifted in place", unintentionally.
My boss got fired on my 3rd day in this job, then a few weeks later the one who did the firing quit.
I've only been going into the office 1-2 days a week. Working from home while the weather is nice. I work enough to meet the requirements but am enjoying this temporary arrangement before I either get fired or motivated back to production.
One month of downshifting in place complete. I would say I "work" about 30-40 hours a week right now, on my own time, primarily from home.
Still haven't replaced my manager, so we will ride things out for a while longer =P
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This is our plan for 2021, or 2022. We will shift to 9 months of work and 3 months off. I already have three months off. Sometimes, you have to take the opportunity as it comes available. A 9 month job opened up a couple of years ago. If I didn't take it, the shadow only knows when another partial schedule job would open up again.
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PTF.
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So I am about 7 months into my downshift [working Mon -Tues - Wed 8hrs/day]. In general I love it. My days are short enough that I don't hate being at work and the weeks are short enough they are over before I start wondering "is it the weekend yet?" I use Thurs and Fri to relax and get all my chores done plus ride my mountain bike. That way when the real weekend comes I can hang out with my GF and not have to do anything else. I definitely feel happier and more relaxed than working full time.
If I was going to point out one thing that was maybe less awesome than I thought it would be it's that I have totally become accustomed to the new schedule so it doesn't feel amazing or special to me any longer.
If I could do one realistic change that would make my downshift better I'd work 4 days a week in the winter and 2 days a week in the summer to average out to 3 days a week. With our rain and cooler temps I don't need more than a 3 day weekend in the winter to do all the outdoor sports I want. OTOH in summer I'd be stoked to have 5 days off every week to adventure. I don't think I could swing this schedule, but if I could it would be rad.
So ya all in all downshifting is great. It doesn't hurt that the market has been on a tear and my accounts are growing like gangbusters even though my additions have been modest.
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My situation is different and I struggle if it's a downshift or not... But I often describe myself as feeling like I only really work 2 days of the week so here goes...
I've worked from home 3 days a week for the past 6 years with two different companies. Two days of the week I put in 8 hour days at the office. The remainder of the time I work remotely and it's flexible. I don't need to be at my desk 9-5 and I don't punch a clock for productivity. I am "on call" much of the time, but for the last year with my new company, It's not something that occurs often (or ever really).
I don't look forward to the weekend the way that most do because, well, I can do lots of the same stuff on the weekdays. I'm NOT working for the weekend!
Why you did it?
I absolutely hated being in the office Monday to Friday, 9-5... Watching the clock and literally going insane thinking "there's 6 more hours to go in this place." It's not the office itself, it's the requirement to be there for such a long period of time for so many days in a row.
What your downshift looks like?
I spend two days of the week at the office, the remaining days I balance between working, getting the kids off to school, picking them up, going to the gym, getting groceries, running errands, doctors appts, cutting the grass, blowing the snow, some occasional retro gaming, etc.
I will admit that my productivity isn't related to clicking on a keyboard though. I tend to think about my work and solving problems when cutting the grass or working out. In effect, it's actually better for my job than sitting stationary in an office I feel trapped in.
What do you like about it?
Full salary and bebefits is great and the fact I can control my own scenery is amazing. I can sit with my laptop outside, sit in my recliner, have a movie playing, etc.
What isn't so awesome about it?
Isolation. I need to get out of the house nearly daily for social interaction. But the kids get home from school mid afternoon and can add enough conversation that's required for the whole day.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing while I can. Much of my role is ensuring smooth operation and things moving forward. With a good team, I can do just that. Get the ball moving and watch it roll!
If/when this opportunity dries out (some early signs it might) I will look for another job. But it won't be in the office 9-5, Monday to Friday unless I choose for it to be. I think I may look for some new opportunities. If we earn enough to "maintain" we're absolutely set to FIRE in 5-10 years with well over a $1million stache.
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RC - Thanks for the update ! I downshifted to 4 days per week last fall and am still working the schedule through mid-February. We are going on vacation in Feb and I've pretty much decided that when I return on March 1 - I'm only going to work three days per week. My FIRE is planned for Dec 1st this year and I've got leave to burn. I've already informed my boss about using my leave up as well as a couple of my closest co-workers. My goal here is to actually get started with my intended post-FIRE routine a little ahead of time. Looking forward to a little less commuting and a little more sleep and outdoor activity once spring hits !!!
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RC - Thanks for the update ! I downshifted to 4 days per week last fall and am still working the schedule through mid-February. We are going on vacation in Feb and I've pretty much decided that when I return on March 1 - I'm only going to work three days per week. My FIRE is planned for Dec 1st this year and I've got leave to burn. I've already informed my boss about using my leave up as well as a couple of my closest co-workers. My goal here is to actually get started with my intended post-FIRE routine a little ahead of time. Looking forward to a little less commuting and a little more sleep and outdoor activity once spring hits !!!
That sounds great. I think the switch from working FT to retired can be quite a shock. Being able to ease into it over months if not years is a nice feature of downshifting. Congrats on your up coming FIRE. :)
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Why I did it:
I am 47, and my husband is 9 1/2 years older. We achieved our FIRE "floor" last summer while I was almost ten years into a stressful job with a commute that was taking up 1 1/2 hours each day (in good weather). My company was in a growth mode and I was doing all of the accounting and HR functions, which was progressively becoming more complex (parts of which I enjoyed). But going into this past fall I just started feeling this weight -- compounded by the fact that deep down I knew I no longer really needed to be there -- and started to wonder why I was staying. My back and fitness were suffering from the commute and constant sitting, my boss was demanding more across the organization but not rewarding people with bonuses, pats on the back, benefits, or increased staff resources to accommodate the new growth. I was starting to lose sleep. So, I decided to resign my position to focus on this next chapter of our lives which has started to unfold in a more real way.
What my downshift looks like:
These are early days, so the answer is, "I'm not quite sure yet." I am doing some very part time paid work as Treasurer of a local non-profit. It's not much money at all, but it does give me a purpose and it's a "gig" that allows me to associate with some good people on a worthwhile goal. Even when it's frustrating, I realize that at least we're doing something to improve peoples' lives and that feels good. I'm also trying to give more time to my church. When I was working long weeks I couldn't devote as much time and just gave money, now I'm trying to change that balance.
I haven't devoted much time yet to how/when/in what capacity I'll go back to paid work. And, I'm not depressed about it either. I just sort of feel like I'm in a state of suspended animation. Maybe this is because I'm in the present, which is a good thing. I'm not ruminating about things in the past (I've accepted this was a good decision), and I'm not ruminating about what's next.
My husband is still working full time at a job very close to home. We're still saving toward our retirement, but have eased off quite a bit to improve our cash flow.
What I like about it:
I no longer have the pit in my stomach because I'm worried about something that got missed or screwed up at work -- which was so far away that I couldn't just go in and handle things. I was also "over" managing staff. I like not having to do repetitive things; I can focus on creative projects. I enjoy cooking, bread-baking, gardening, reading, getting "out and about." My job was very isolated and isolating, so I have more latitude to see people and spend time with them, so I think staying at home will be less isolating. My work life was very deadline driven; deadlines ruled my life. I like the freedom of not having too many deadlines and having the autonomy to shift my schedule around in a way that makes sense for me.
It would be interesting to answer these questions in another year, but I also find that I enjoy taking care of the day-to-day management of our household when I have time to do it and it's not an "add on" to my already stressful schedule.
The town I worked in was nothing -- a little rural spot on the road that was frankly a very depressing place. The town I live in is a college town, with a very vibrant downtown and lots of people who are doing their own thing. There are lots of creative types and professional (mostly academic) women here. I feel much more "understood" in this environment than I did in the environment in which I worked. I feel like I have more latitude to be myself here. I feel at home.
I also can tell that my husband is happier, and it's not because I'm waiting on him hand and foot:-) That's not how we roll. He just sees that I'm happier and I'm not stressed out and grouchy at home. That makes him happier. We enjoy meals together now. We do more things together in the evenings -- performances and lectures at the college (most are free, the rest are low cost.)
What's not so awesome:
Right now, it's pretty awesome... but I think the thing that will be most challenging for me is undergoing a shift in my identity and professional identity. So, "identity, identity, identity." As a woman who's worked hard to have a professional identity and left the work force when I was making pretty decent money, I think I may have some challenges coming to terms with that. Because this decision doesn't conform to norms, I get questions that I'm not comfortable answering yet. People I know well understand it and affirm it.
But then I remember how much I had to battle and the sexism I dealt with when I was on the job too... so, it's a pretty good trade-off.
My plans going forward and down-shifting:
Again, not really sure... and I'm trying to be okay with that for awhile.
My first step is just to adapt to our new income, and manage our household in a simple way. I want to do more DIY stuff at home. I want to take care of things that have fallen by the wayside.
I also want to re-commit to serious workouts... get back to long-distance running.
I'm trying to decide if I want to continue on the path I'm on (CPA) on a part-time basis, if I want to work for myself, or if I want to embark on an encore career of sorts. The more I detach the more the idea of an encore career is appealing to me. I just know that whatever I do it will be vastly different from the last ten 1/2 years of my life, even if it just means that I'm working a lot less.
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This was a really fun thread to read during my lunch break.
I'm currently 30 and am an attorney working for a solo practitioner. I've watched my boss for about three months and her model is pretty great--she has two staff and me basically do everything. She probably brings in $250k-350k per year and takes whatever is left at the end of the year. She's here 10-15 hours a week tops, so it's almost like a source of passive income at this point. Granted, she owns a $700k house and has a bunch of other business ventures, so she works way more than that.
Being pretty frugal, I've basically structured my own personal life so that we can live off just my wife's income. This gives me some cushion to eventually start my own practice if and when I think I have enough clients to at least make some money doing that. Basically, once I think I can get $50,000 in revenue on my own, I'll probably jump ship.
My ultimate dream is to work 15-20 hours per week, delegate the simple stuff to a hopefully competent assistant, manage 3-6 pieces of civil litigation, and fill in my time with low stress stuff like wills, guardianships, traffic tickets, etc. This would keep me active enough both professionally and in the legal community (which I really enjoy), but also not worry about all the regular 9:00-5:00 stuff, putting on a shirt and tie every day, etc.
Again, this thread was an awesome thread to motivate me to get there within 3-5 years.
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So if you've downshifted I'd love to hear about:
I am 49 yrs old. Husband is 56 and works part time as a Contractor.
- why you did it? Old enough now I know myself well. Enjoy working p/t and like the medical & dental benefits. More time to cycle for fitness.
- what your downshift looks like? 44.5 hrs a week to 36.5 hrs in 3 days. I used to fill in for absent employees plus work my reg 3 day shift.
Paid to sleep 7-8 hrs while on shift (on call) but hardly ever, woken up. Listen to online sermons while I fall asleep in bed. Difficult to do at home as husband interrupts me alot. Or I worry it keeps him up. It relaxes me to fall asleep quicker.
- what do you like about it? medical benefits,dental, extra $$ saved for Skilled Nursing Fund via cash put into the safe. We live in a small town that requires driving 45 min to the nearest town where I work. Everything is much cheaper with multiple health food stores, just everything we need. Otherwise we'd need to drive there once a week to shop anyhow
- what isn't so awesome about it? Sometimes it's taxing but work is completed in 3 days with 4 days off each week.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE? Will downshift to 20-24 hrs week at age 65. Replace typical medical benefits with the indemnity policy (both employer sponsored) which acts as a medicare supplement. still keeping a reduced level of accident, dental, vision & life insurance. Use the money to live on while delaying Social Security until age 70. Cash in 401k slowly between ages 67-70 for more favorable tax treatment.
Working p/t in old age keeps people sharp and wards off dementia. My opinion of course. Sorry I cannot seem to unbold this post, it's so bright!
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I'm downshifting AGAIN!
A number of you wrote to me about my overseas teaching gig. Careful what you wish for, those things can suck. I'm quitting on Thursday after 13 years.
One thing that is commonly talked about on this site is part-time jobs. Watch out that they don't ruin your life, ok? Yeah, I got 9,000 a semester for six days of contact hours, but I had to teach a new course this semester and it took two months solid. Since I really want to be an artist, I should be applying for residencies. Instead, I missed two residencies that I wanted to apply to because I ran out of time. Meanwhile, I had to fight bigoted knuckle-dragging administrators to get paid, as I do every semester. I had issued an ultimatum saying I quit if you don't pay me by tomorrow. After 30 days of not paying me, all of a sudden, they did and I was crestfallen. Meanwhile the students in this European country are mind-numbing cretins. They informed me that they wouldn't be at one of my classes because it was "student day at the races." F* THAT. I wound up back in therapy for the first time in years. I realized that this wasn't just creating anxiety, but impacting my opinion of myself. It's terrible to feel that you are a bad teacher, or a loser for being there, and the subtle racism (I am American but of Eastern European extraction in a country that looks down on Eastern European immigrants) is galling. I haven't wanted to lose my friendships there, but what sort of friendships are they?
F* these people, I'm out. I'm going into art full time.
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why you did it?
My position was eliminated unexpectedly around Thanksgiving 2016 when I was only about 50% to FIRE. After months of interviewing for jobs and not being too interested in any of them, I started a business blog to use as an expanded resume.
To my surprise, someone contacted me for freelance consulting work. After the second person contacted me for this, I turned the blog into a part-time consulting business.
what your downshift looks like?
I had been working 40-60 hour weeks for the past 10 years of my career in different tech sales management positions. Last year, I averaged less than 20 hours per week, but it varied based on my project load. Overall I worked about 25% of the time last year on paying projects.
I did spend a lot of time writing the blog and working on setting up the biz but for me this was unpaid and a creative endeavor.
what do you like about it?
Setting my own schedule.
Eliminating 95% of all BS - most meetings, unproductive metrics, fluff, business posturing, corporate politics, "face time", travel, etc.
Free time to spend with my wife and pets during daylight hours. I work mostly when I want to.
I love dealing directly with small business owners and senior execs. We get right to the heart of the matter making decisions quickly and taking effective action.
what isn't so awesome about it?
Lack of steady income! I made about 1/3 of what I did the previous year. That amount is actually perfectly acceptable. This year, I've landed no sizable projects yet which is not so great.
Health Insurance. Like many FIRE and self employed, I'm in a somewhat shitty situation.
Being a "consultant" I am out of the loop on a lot of internal communication (eg someone I work with gets fired or transferred, a major strategy changes etc.). It's taken some time to get accustomed to this after having been an employee with inside knowledge my entire life.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I'd be willing to keep doing this consulting about 25% of the time indefinitely until I earn enough to go full FIRE. Working for myself has been the most enjoyable work I've ever had. I just need to maintain about 3 active clients to make it feasible long term.
The business exposed me to ideas and work I'd not done in a long time. I enjoy writing so much that I started a personal blog to cover topics not suitable for my business.
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PTF--I plan to downshift to working three days or fewer once I hit certain milestones (so far on track for this to happen in about 6-7 years, 5 if I'm lucky and plan right) and am interested in how others approach this. In most ways my current career suits me, but in my pre-mustachian days I did once have a 3-day/week job and just the aspect of spending more of my days off than at work was a huge boon to my mental state.
My current job involves using 3-5 main skills, and at least 2 of those would translate to freelance work, and moreover they're my favorite parts of my job, so that's what I've been keeping in mind for this. I'd continue that form of downshift while letting my stash compound further until I could RE with greater security.
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I left a full-time research position 5 years ago to focus solely on contract work related to my field. I’m 40.
Why I did it: Initially, severe job burnout. I hadn’t taken time to reset my brain after a PhD, and on top of that, my next workplace was a terrible fit. I started exploring contract work as a side gig about 6 months before I resigned from the lab and essentially retired from research. Now I consider myself a “feral” worker who probably wouldn’t do well in a traditional work environment. I like my work, my clients, and the ability to control my own time and environment.
What it looks like: I work an average of probably 30 hours per week. No set schedule, although I try to keep Tuesdays free from client work so I can plan errands and attend a volunteer meeting. The nature of my fiel means that the work ebbs and flows. Things are quiet this week due to the end of academic semesters and international labor holidays, but other times my clients offer more work than I can accept.
What do I like: Setting my own schedule. Not commuting. Not having coworkers with anger management issues. Not having a boss who expects me to respond to emails at 2 am or cancel holiday plans at the last minute. Time to cook from scratch, knit, volunteer with multiple community organizations. The ability to (for example) spend the afternoon with my husband on his day off or pick up my retired dad and take him to lunch without asking permission from management.
What isn’t the greatest: No company 401k/403b plan, so no employer match. No option for company-sponsored healthcare (fortunately, husband’s employee plan covers me). Estimated quarterly tax payments and having to cover both halves of FICA.
Future plans: This has worked out so much better than even I had hoped. I don’t have changes planned, except maybe a few more private clients (my biggest clients are corporate but I love working directly with researchers). Once we’ve finished paying off the last of a few house-related debts incurred before I started reading this site, I think husband and I will be able to live off of one income and save the other.
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late 40's in healthcare, originally worked 3 days 12 hour shifts- long hours but 4 days off! then the all-knowing-nothing-supervisors decided to convert us to 4 days 10 hour shifts which ended up creating chaos and even more overtime opportunities.
why you did it
now work 3 days 10 hour shifts to take care of chronically ill family member.
what does your downshift look like
love being back to 3 days but its overall exhausting because its not "free time" but its family, whatcha gonna do?
what do you like about it
i'm feeling burned out at work mostly because my supervisors style of leadership and actions are eerily similar the trump- daily chaos, totally unprofessional, change policies on a dime and deny saying what ever they just previously said.... so i like seeing them one day less in this downshift schedule. plus still get full benefits.
what isn't awesome about it
not much- we got a nice pay bump after getting none for a super long while and though my hours are less ( 30 vs 40) i'm about the same as i was taking home at 36 hours. i was able to sock away more at 40 hours than now but still saving at least 40% anyways due to another stream of income.
future plans
a bit morbid, but once my family member passes i will fire. either sell my home and move to a smaller cheaper place/city/state. i love my job in healthcare, so i may continue to work 1 day a week or be a dog walker. or sell it all and become a nomadic traveler or travel teaching esl.... ideas please:)
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I posted this in General Discussion and someone pointed me to this thread, so I'll cross-post it here. My downshift is still in the planning stage. Reading through this thread, I don't think I see anything quite like what I'm considering: staying at my company for the sweet benefits and continued access to retirement plan, but a completely different type of job and a big step down in terms of responsibility (and pay).
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I'm planning to leave my job next year despite not achieving FI yet, which for me means I'll be entering a phase in which I've got my "old man money" saved up and will turn my attention to more satisfying personal work and projects while bringing in enough income to make ends meet.
I work in management at a large health care organization--good pay, amazing benefits, pension plan (!). I've been here for more than 10 years, and as someone who needs to make major life changes from time to time, I need to get out of here. Even if my department offered me a half-time schedule, I don't think I'd take it--I need a clean break and don't want to keep working on the same projects with the same people. And while my job isn't very stressful, it does come with a lot of responsibilities I'm tired of carrying.
Which leads me to the idea of easing the transition by spending a year or two doing a chill part-time job at this massive organization, such as registration representative (checking people in for their appointments). There would be a huge pay cut, but at 20 hours/week, I would keep my benefits, including the ability to keep contributing to my 403(b)--which I could probably do if I'm bringing in freelance income. I'm not a status-oriented person and I have no issues with doing lower-level work at this point in my career (a word I don't really relate to anyway). Though it did occur to me that in a public-facing new position, I could encounter former colleagues, and that could make for some slightly awkward moments.
Anyone else done or considered something like this? The other options, of course, are (1) leave the organization completely and figure out health insurance, etc., on my own, which I'll need to do eventually anyway; and (2) suck it up and see if I can stay in my department at 20 hours/week.
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Just discovered this thread and am on the cusp of making this decision now. I tried to quit/give a long notice period a week ago, and my manager asked me to consider a part time role (following a sabbatical). I think it might be challenging to come up with a role that is legitimately part time - these do not exist on my team/at our company) & we have complexities with time zones, I'm currently a people manager of a large team, etc. But, if we can, it would be a huge win for me.
why you did it
I will make the change to allow more flexibility in our lives/schedule. And, because right now I work too much, have to travel, do evening & weekend work. Going part time would curb most/all of that.
what does your downshift look like
I'm hoping it will mean working fewer hours 4 days/week, with Fridays off entirely.
what do you like about it
I'm burned out & need to do a better job of managing my energy (I have lupus). I also want more time for my own endeavors (working out, time with kids, our house, etc). If I am able to negotiate this & work more than 50% (so, 25 hours/week would qualify), I can get healthcare, reduced vesting on my huge grant of stock I'm sitting on, reduced salary, and reduced vacation accrual. If that plays out as I think it would, I would make more part time vs almost any full time job I could find. That would be huge. I have a hard time imagining the company letting me do this without taking a demotion, given my level & salary, but at the moment, they seem quite intent on keeping me. It's helpful that I'm in a very hard to fill niche space.
what isn't awesome about it
I haven't started yet, but things that worry me include: getting paid part time & somehow getting sucked back into nearly full time work in order to complete unrealistic project goals, worrying about what people think (facepunches), concerns that I'll have to give up much of the mentoriship & leadership roles that I do now as I won't have time with a reduced schedule.
future plans
If this plays out for us, I'll likely go full time until January (tentative commitment so far on my side), take a 12 week sabbatical (unpaid, but don't lose options), & then come back part time. I'll try out the part time option & see if it works. if it does, I'd consider doing it indefinitely, as the perks of working at my company are huge, and again, delayed vesting on my current stash of options is worth ~$500k.
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Moving to 4 day weeks starting Monday. I will be taking Fridays off planning on using FMLA to keep my pto accrual at normal levels for 12 weeks then asking to go to 4-8s limited full time starting in mid October officially hacking 20% of my pay and work week. By my calcs worst case it adds 1 extra calendar year of work but thanks to compounding even with reduced income it results in many less days worked.
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I tried to downshift, but hasn't quite worked out like I expected. Apparently, I'm a workaholic.
BEFORE: Worked 40ish hrs/wk as a full-time veterinarian, spent approx 5-10 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
AFTER: Work 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian, do occasional relief shifts at other veterinary clinics (avg ~5 hrs/wk), spend approximately 20-30 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
I'm definitely happier now... I'm not working any less, but I control my own schedule so I have a degree of flexibility that I didn't have before (want to go to yoga class on Friday morning? no problem!). Plus, I'm making a good bit more money than I was making previously. The relief work isn't really part of my overall master plan, but it's $650/day and I actually really enjoy the days I spend at the clinic where I'm mostly doing relief (great team, fabulous clients, fun location within walking distance of cool lunch restaurants)... so I'm not planning to give it up. I'm not ready to give up the stability of at least a PT vet job just yet and the writing is my long-term plan (just didn't expect it to take off so quickly) so that's not going anywhere.
Looks like my downshift will have to wait a while.
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I'm in a temporary downshift, working 24-hour weeks through July and August and a few short weeks in September.
I love this reduced schedule. Since I'm using benefit days that I've built up, I'm still getting my full pay.
When I hit my FIRE target in 2019, I'm seriously considering requesting part time hours (8 to 24) for up to a year as opposed to FIREing completely, but I don't know if it will be an option or for how long. 24 hours would allow me to keep my excellent work healthcare plan at the same premium, but 8 to 16 hours sounds more appealing to actually work.
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What does my downshift look like- I downshifted in April to Part time, actually it's called a "job share" where I work. I share a full time job with another person.
What does it look like- I work 2 12 hour shifts one week and 1 12 hour shift the second. We split the required weekends and holidays.
Why did I do it- I did it because at the beginning of the year they offered anyone over 55 (I'm 60) who has been working there over 15 years full time benefits for part time work. I've been saving some of my salary anyway and feel I have accumulated enough to safely retire at 65 when I qualify for Medicare. There is no way that I am willing to buy health insurance on the open market and I am ethically opposed to taking Obamacare subsidies when I am perfectly capable of working just don't want to.
What do I like- the extra time off, more weekends off, more holidays off.
What I don't like- I worry about keeping my skills up. That hasn't seemed like much of a problem so far. I also worry a little about money. I've always had way more than I needed with a full time paycheck. I could pretty much write a check for anything I wanted. Now I'm cutting it close. My son is getting married next month and I'm stressing out on how I'm going to pay for it out of my checking account. Goofy of me I know- heaven forbid if I have to dip into my more than adequate savings :(,
What are the plans going forward- Reassess when I'm 65 and qualify for medicare.
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I downshifted to 32 hours a week this year, with only one day a week in the office, and I am considering cutting back even more next year. It seems like the less I work, the less motivated I am to work. And the less willing I am to put up with the B.S.
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PTF. This is my plan too, so it's good to hear how it's worked out for others. I'll probably hit my RE number before my original 2020 goal, but I may cut back to 4 or 3 days a week instead of quitting entirely. Ideally, I'd do that for a year or two and see how it feels.
It'll be a nice way to test the waters of early retirement, to make sure I won't be bored with a slower-paced life before I commit myself. Plus, given all the uncertainties around health care, it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a few more years of employer-paid insurance before I venture out into the individual markets.
Oh hey, I have an update!
DW and I both went down to part-time (4 days per week) at the beginning of July. In a sense, this decision was forced upon us, because our daycare provider retired and closed her business and we didn't have another childcare plan. But I'm very glad we did it. It was the nudge we needed.
What our downshift looks like: I work from home one day a week and have off one day a week. DW works from home two days a week and has off one day. There's never a day when we're both in the office, so one of us is always here to watch our son. (We have help from grandparents on our work-from-home days.)
What we like about it: So much! Every week is effectively a three-day weekend. Less stress, more relaxation, more leisure. We're spending more time being parents to our son. We can run errands and do chores during the week so we don't have to cram everything into our precious weekend days.
What isn't so awesome about it: Right now, we have no backup option for childcare. It would definitely be helpful to find a Plan B in case one of us gets sick or we want to take a day off.
Our plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE: Now that I've had a taste of working part-time, I never want to go back to a full-time schedule. As we approach our RE number, I may offer to go down to 3 days a week instead of quitting outright. It depends on how the stock market does in the next few years and what the state of the health insurance market is.
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I will work 4 days a week from September. Yeah!! Hopefully my DH will follow soon after.
- why you did it?
Last year has been really stressful for DH and me.
* DH has had (endurance sport based) heart issues, several trips to the intensive care, and a heart operation. In addition to a knee problem.
* I was responsible for testing of 2 software projects at work that both required full time attention and care (both testing myself and management), while I didn't want to work double hours. That means you need to work really effectively and still cut some corners than you are comfortable with. This has been extremely stressful.
* We had a long and tiresome case against the former owner of our house.
* We still have another ongoing case with the house that will take attention from now.
* We need to do a technical modification on our house that eithers costs a lot of money or requires us to use our spare time to do it ourselves.
* DH had an absolutely shitty boss who lets you work until you drop dead. This problem is solved now from August.
* I always have the feeling that I don't have time to enjoy my hobbies and that I'm wasting away my good years at the office.
* Our long weekends are the greatest moments in our life. We usually go some place we like to be (camping or at our/a cabin) and enjoy being active.
- what your downshift looks like?
Working Monday to Thursday, normal hours. I have promised to be a bit flexible and sometimes work on Fridays. DH will also ask for working 80%. He hasn't done that yet. He is scheduled for a new heart operation soon and he wants to ask for reduced hours after that, using the heart issue as an argument.
- what do you like about it?
I hope to enjoy more long weekends on small trips. But this requires that DH also gets his Fridays off.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Don't know yet. But I heard from MIL many years ago that everyone still expects you to do the same amount of work in those 4 days. For my work, I will still have those same 2 projects to work for. And still not enough people to do the work for me. So I'm still the manager and executioner.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Downshift at 80% until we FIRE. We need to sell of house to free up our money needed to FIRE. We have plans to put it on the market in spring 2019. If we manage to sell if for a good price in 2019, we have enough stash to FIRE for in 2019. Otherwise we'll need to try again in 2020, where we can FIRE no matter what.
And then we need to move somewhere else. The plan is move somewhere out in the country where houses are cheaper (rent first) and where it is a nice area to do your hobbies. We haven't prepared this in detail, yet. So we need some time to prepare both the house sale and making a plan for afterwards.
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Interesting idea for a thread. I’m 30 and not fully downshifting yet, although I currently have my first 40 hr job in my career. I’ve been working around 60-70 on average the last 8 years.
Last year I took my first sabbatical (well, two actually) and only worked 4.5 months. Fortunately the stocks did well and my net worth still increased about $20k.
My downshifting will be very different than most. Instead of cutting back to part time weeks, I will be able to take contract positions working 70-80 hrs for a few months, then taking the rest of the year off. I’ll be able to take home about $20k/mo those months, so I’m hoping to get to the point where I can work 3 months then take 9 months off while the stache grows. I’m unsure when this will happen, but likely in the next 3-4 years. It won’t work exactly as such as I may be needed for longer or shorter periods, but will just plan my time off accordingly.
Since I’ve been working so much for so long, and my wife doesn’t work, I can still be pretty energetic working 70-80 hrs a week. Eating healthy, plenty of sleep, and a good diet, goes a long ways.
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Official down shift paperwork went in today. Dropped to 4-9s. 10% pay cut for 20% more days off. I typically work 9s and just wasn't charging them so now it's like a free day.
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(https://www.yourreadybusiness.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Vodafone-Downshifting2.jpg)
So if you've downshifted I'd love to hear about:
- why you did it?
- what your downshift looks like?
- what do you like about it?
- what isn't so awesome about it?
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I embarked on a forced downshift in 2015. The plan at that time was to hit full blown FIRE by 2018, but that had assumed FT employment in the intervening years. However, I was laid off from a high salary job when my wife was 8 months pregnant. What I'd expected to be 12 weeks off turned into a year, during which I did about a month of $75/hr contracting for the company that laid me off and basically no other paid work. Then I was pulled in to a 25 hr / week gig for a previous employer, which lasted about 18 months. Since then I've done about 9 months of ~15 hour weeks programming for a client that a friend of mine was too busy to help.
During most of this 3 year period, my income hasn't covered our expenses. And our expenses have been higher than expected since my thoughts on my badassity levels were trumped by the difficulties of raising a high needs infant/toddler. We've eaten out an insanely high amount. And insurance rates went from a few hundred per month under my employer to costing more than my mortgage.
Despite all of this, I have managed to only withdraw a total of $20k during the three years we've been in this track. Typically we get back a huge portion of our insurance costs, since I refuse to take the "pay lower premiums" option when on a variable income.
Our net worth has grown to the point that we're past our FI number based on our spending from three years ago, but it doesn't yet cover our current spending.
Obviously, I like the flexibility. I've gone from barely knowing about Pokémon to becoming a top notch player with sights on reaching World-championship level of skill. That's still far out, but I know I wouldn't be anywhere in the same spectrum if I had to work a normal day job and take care of my kid as well. That has opened up new senses of accomplishment and new friendships. And, as it turns out, if my daughter likes it as much as she seems to, when she gets older it could lead to scholarship money.
What I don't like is continually losing sight of the big picture, and thus continually feeling like we're inches away from being in financial trouble. It has nothing to do with the downshift, but my daughter eats up so much time and energy that I barely feel able to keep up with anything. Additionally, I feel pressure from the outside world that assumes a normal work situation. I often feel judged for being available at times most wouldn't. The assumption being that I'm an unemployed slacker or something. And I also get the other side of the coin from family members who think I should be able to cater to their schedules and needs simply because I theoretically have the time (ignoring anything I actually do have going on).
My plans going forward are mostly to stay the course, using the free time I'll actually get as my daughter grows up to write a series of books, complete some pretty ambitious art projects, and win some Pokémon TCG championships. Some of that will provide financial rewards, but as long as things don't backslide too much, the long term plan is pretty solid. I expect to still do some downshifted work. I'm going to try to roll with the punches and see where it takes me. But I'm confident that if our plan ever felt like it was really in question, we'd be able to find our footing and get back on track. And hey, the upside could be pretty great if things go well.
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Thanks for sharing your interesting story JGB, and well done for staying the course.
What I don't like is continually losing sight of the big picture, and thus continually feeling like we're inches away from being in financial trouble. It has nothing to do with the downshift, but my daughter eats up so much time and energy that I barely feel able to keep up with anything. Additionally, I feel pressure from the outside world that assumes a normal work situation. I often feel judged for being available at times most wouldn't. The assumption being that I'm an unemployed slacker or something. And I also get the other side of the coin from family members who think I should be able to cater to their schedules and needs simply because I theoretically have the time (ignoring anything I actually do have going on).
When I look back over my 23 years of downshifting - initially due to family responsibilities - I can relate to all that you've said here. Downshifting is a compromise for sure. Looking after kids does eat up enormous time and energy, even more so if there are special needs. And I found it takes extra energy to resist conformity ( that of normal work), and folks who want you to march to their schedule. Personally I found the benefits outweighed the negatives, but it didn't come entirely easily and required work to maintain my direction and boundaries.
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Things are getting a bit complicated for work now. I am now not working on Fridays. But sometimes there are things to be done on Fridays at work, like a 2-day personnel events and some deadlines outside these days. When working on Friday, I need to take another day off. But that makes the next week very short and that collides with the deadlines. At the moment that one day longer weekend feels very precious. I don't immediately need 2 days a week extra off.
I am almost feeling the pressure to change it to work every other week. But I need to remember that I am not doing this for my work, I am doing it for myself.
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Time for a boundary check Linda Norway. Sounds like you've taken on 4.5 days of work/week, not 4. You either work 5 days every second week or figure out how to lighten your load. Ditch something, say no to a lot of small things or delegate.
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I've just started my final "mini-retirement". I'm on six months long service leave. :)
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Congrats, @happy , hope you have a wonderful six months!
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A little confusing. Where I come from, "downshifting" means to rev up and go faster...
Think of it as downshifting as you come to the red traffic light of retirement as opposed to downshifting to pass a truck on the highway. ;)
Ha! A good point. In the last car I owned (a little stick shift Honda Fit), I coasted to stops and only downshifted if I needed to go uphill or past someone.
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Time for a boundary check Linda Norway. Sounds like you've taken on 4.5 days of work/week, not 4. You either work 5 days every second week or figure out how to lighten your load. Ditch something, say no to a lot of small things or delegate.
Yes. DH also told me that it is my job's problem if I don't have enough time to do my job. Not my problem.
He is currently a bit worrying about his own job, without being specific about it. Buy I think is about the acquisition of new work. He is now thinking that if they think he does a bad job, the worst thing that can happen is being asked to leave, or getting fired. If that would generate a goodbye package, this would not be unwelcome. He is now getting a FY money attitude.
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What I realised working part-time, at least in my workplace, is that no-one really knows how much work you can get through. They have a rough idea of what is expected for a fulltimer, but not a clear idea of a part-timer. Sounds like it should be just math, doesn't it?, but its more difficult when translated into the day to day workplace, projects, meetings and as you say 2 days events and so on. So its much more up to you to only take on what you can do in your paid hours ( plus whatever unpaid overtime is expected). If you don't defend whatever you think is your reasonable boundary you will end up doing 5 days work in 4 and no-one except you will care.
Of course this doesn't apply if you work a shiftwork type job - much easier to downshift.
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Another issue popped up. At my job, we are changing type of pension. First I thought this was per first of July 2019, but now it is from January 2019. For this pension, my employer will save 18,5% pension premium for the last almost 10% of my brutto income. But now, when working 80%, I am below that number and I won't get that 18,5% premium. I have calculated that my loss of one year pension premium per year at full time work is worth approx 1800 USD.
I intend to work next year until October. That would have meant 2/3 X 2000 = approx 1200 USD. This is pure cash that I would receive from the age of 67, smeared out over several years.
The question is, would it be worth trading my Fridays back in for that amount? On the other hand, if I would have wanted to maximize my income, I shouldn't have started working part time in the first place...
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For those who downshifted, what percentage of your FIRE 'stache did you have accumulated when you downshifted? 40%? 75%? Curious to hear some numbers.
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Good question @legalstache. I don't have a percentage, but we did run FIREcalc (a lot!) and downshifting to 32 hrs per week only extended FIRE from ~5 years to ~6.5 years. That was a year and a half ago. I love my 3-day weekends! I can work up to 40 and get a bigger paycheck if I need or want to since my employer wanted easy bookkeeping.
Note: I contribute to a state pension, and at 32 hours per week I still earn one full month of service credit. My stash in Vanguard/etc. doesn't have to be quite as big as the usual 25x.
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For those who downshifted, what percentage of your FIRE 'stache did you have accumulated when you downshifted? 40%? 75%? Curious to hear some numbers.
I was at barebones FI when I downshifted to 4 days/week. There was still plenty to save so when I hit discretionary FI, I shifted to 3 and then 2 days/week for OMY (2 days/week was just about at spending level). At 2 days, I eventually realized that I was wasting my time and off I went.
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For those who downshifted, what percentage of your FIRE 'stache did you have accumulated when you downshifted? 40%? 75%? Curious to hear some numbers.
We are almost there with savings, because we currently live in most of our stash. That is also why the market dip doesn't have such a enormous impact on us.
We need about a quarter year's more savings. In addition to that, we need to cover next year's living expenses, which we intend to cover by working until October. As we last year saved 75% of our take home pay, we thought we could afford to downshift to 80% working, which gives us a 15% loss of take home pay. I think that we are there with savings in the beginning of 2019. What we will save in access of that in 2019 will be a safety margin and is needed for extra costs like moving to a cheaper house.
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I downshifted from 60 hrs/week to my current ~40 hrs/wk (only 26 hrs are in the office) and take 5-6 weeks off each summer, so I don’t think I meet criteria for being downshifted according to the definition per this thread. But I feel downshifted (compared to where I was before), so I’m PTF.
why you did it?
Started getting severe chest pains and numbness in one arm. Thought I was having a heart attack but then realized it was mainly stress-induced. Also started having trouble sleeping.
what your downshift looks like?
Going from 60 hours, 6.5 days per week to 3 days per week in the office, 2 days working (or not working) at leisure from home
what do you like about it?
The flexibility. Avoiding rush hour traffic. Being able to work around DD’s school schedule. Not having chest pains anymore. Being able to sleep at night without my mind racing. Avoiding workplace politics since I’m not in the office enough to hear the gossip and when I am, I have stuff to get done.
what isn't so awesome about it?
Nothing. I prefer my current work arrangement over any other arrangement, except it would be nice to cut down my hours even more. We are even saving slightly more than when I was working 60 hrs/wk because my work flexibility has allowed DH to take full-time work.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Short-term plans to keep the same arrangement for 1-2 more years. Then FIRE! We are currently 100% Barebones FI, 75% Full FIRE, and 65% Fat FIRE.
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I am currently experiencing a light version of FIRE mind set.
I am now having a four day weekend (to compensate for working on Friday last week and this is my second day). I am home alone until Saturday evening. Yesterday was not such a good day. I only had a short trip outside and went on a pretty unsatisfying shopping trip where I couldn't find the majority of the things I needed and where I fell for the trap of buying some crappy comfort food. I spent most of the time being online and the only useful thing I did was buying some wine that was on the shopping list and cleaning a bathroom.
Today is a better day where I hiked in dry, partly sunny weather and where I disovered a new landmark in our local forest. I also managed to not think about my to do list for a couple of hours.
But now my mind is again trying to spark me into to-do-list modus, as I need to prepare for a 3 day work trip abroad on Monday morning and I need to fix some hour registration for work.
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why you did it?
I wanted more free time and to decrease my stress. Basically enjoy life more, exercise more, learn new things and just be happier. Plus it will allow us to gradually dip our toes into the FIRE mentality.
what your downshift looks like?
Went from full on managerial responsibility working something like 50-60 hours per week if you include all the at home emails and phone calls while technically being responsible 24/7 down to 20 hours a week with a very minor material role with no 24/7 responsibility. This change occurred a few weeks ago so it is all new to me.
what do you like about it?
The free time and the freedom of being "on" 24/7. I love it and am already healthier for it.
what isn't so awesome about it?
I was on a hyperbolic path of corporate success. Working a lot and gaining connections. I am sure if I continued this path my income would continue to soar and would have exponential financial achievement in the eyes of what most people think is successful. This is not us and how we think though at times I worry that maybe we are making a mistake giving up such a huge salary as well as a massive future income potential. Another downside is that I lost a lot of control and maybe some respect as I am not the head guy anymore. Lastly, being less active I worry that I will lose my skill and ability. This last part actually bothers me the most.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I hope to get rid of more managerial responsibilities over the next 6-12 months and just work 2-3 days a week. I really do like my job and hope that I can continue part time well into my late 50s. Or if working starts getting old, we will FIRE. My wife needs 1.5 more years of full time as per her contract and then she should be going part time as well. Right before this lass correction we were sitting on 25x if you exclude the mortgage. 1-2 years of part time would have us right back at 25x but with investments to cover the mortgage as well. Our ideal goal is 30x because we would like to insure lifestyle creep over the years. I suspect as we get older, less nimble, less energetic, we may need to spend a bit more money to help compensate for our aging bodies.
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Right before this lass correction we were sitting on 25x if you exclude the mortgage. 1-2 years of part time would have us right back at 25x but with investments to cover the mortgage as well. Our ideal goal is 30x because we would like to insure lifestyle creep over the years. I suspect as we get older, less nimble, less energetic, we may need to spend a bit more money to help compensate for our aging bodies.
If you would downsize and move to a LCOL area, could you then remove the mortgage?
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Right before this lass correction we were sitting on 25x if you exclude the mortgage. 1-2 years of part time would have us right back at 25x but with investments to cover the mortgage as well. Our ideal goal is 30x because we would like to insure lifestyle creep over the years. I suspect as we get older, less nimble, less energetic, we may need to spend a bit more money to help compensate for our aging bodies.
If you would downsize and move to a LCOL area, could you then remove the mortgage?
We could FIRE right now if we downsized to a smaller home in a nearby neighborhood. We live in something very face punch worthy. This house has a useless 20 foot ceiling in the entryway, a 30,000 gallon pool, and is old requiring some upcoming repairs which we saved cash for. We need to replace the HVAC and a few windows. We bought it prior to understanding the value of our time though we did not splurge based on my income. When we bought the house, it was 1.5x my income and prior to downshifting it was 1x my income. The thing is, we love the school district and the home is short walking distance to everything from Kindergarten to High school. The area has lots of bike trails behind the houses and one can even ride a bike to the grocery store requiring crossing only 1 car driven road. I did the math, and considering the property tax, the higher cost of utilities, pool and yard maintenance plus upkeep I believe it costs an extra $7-$10k/yr to keep.
The reason why we chose not to sell is because for now we still enjoy our jobs and believe we provide something worthwhile to the world doing it. If we plan to continue to work part time then we might as well continue to live here.
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I can't write a full post yet, but I plan to transition to 4 days a week at 6 hours a day after my company's raise and bonus cycle is complete, probably in January. I recently stumbled across a great consulting opportunity that would be 6 very intense weeks on with months off in between. If that comes through I could see myself doing that for quite a while. I hit 25x spending this past June, but due to the nature of my work and the difficulty of getting back in after being fully out for a while I plan to get closer to a 3.5% withdrawal rate before I FIRE for good.
Hopefully I'll be back here in February or March to join this illustrious group!
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I just had a health check at work and the nurse found high blood pressure for me. A good deal higher than the maximum I should have. I need to follow up with my GP.
I thought that changing to working 80% had helped greatly with my stress level. I feel much more relaxed than last winter. But she wondered whether I might still have some long term stress effects from last year. It normalized in the spring. It scares me that my blood pressure is still so high. But I do feel a constant need to think about things to be done. And maybe the whole thought of FIREing in 2019, that includes downsizing and moving to LCOL, is also making me a bit anxious.
Edit: I just had the chance to say to my boss that I don't have capacity to be put on another project, in addition to my current projects.
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I did it for two years. I had been teaching full time and had a part time gig overseas. Two weeks away intensive university teaching each semester Seemed easy, right? It was hell. Only in the last few months did I realize the toll it was taking on me. 75% of the work and stress for 25% of the money. I quit it this spring and am much, much happier not staring into the maw of wage slavery again.
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For those who downshifted, what percentage of your FIRE 'stache did you have accumulated when you downshifted? 40%? 75%? Curious to hear some numbers.
I downshifted 23 years ago and probably had about 10%. I found working full-time just too soul sucking.
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At my job we had a health check last week. There it was found that I have very high blood pressure. This is after downshifting to 80% in September. Last year is must have been a LOT higher.
This only shows I did a good thing by downshifting, but it is still not enough. I have an appointment with my GP next week. We'll see what the result of that is.
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why you did it?
After having my first son and enjoying a luxurious 6 month maternity leave (mostly unpaid, boo), I couldn't imagine going back full time. I had a crappy commute and felt like it was time to either downshift or find a different job so that I would be able to at least not spend as much time commuting when I could be with my son. (It was max 1 hour each way, more like 30 minutes in the mornings.) So I pushed hard for half time, and eventually went up to 3 days/week because the commute, it just made sense to me to do 3 full days if I was going to bother going in on 3 days.
what your downshift looks like?
I worked M,W,Th for about 2 years until having my second son.
what do you like about it?
I liked that I got to continue to be intellectually challenged and interact with adults in a work context. Solving problems, feeling valued for my tenure at the company, etc. In total I was there 9 years. I also liked that I could do playdates with my first son and some stay at home moms, and felt kind of like I was bridging two worlds. I also got some pretty sweet benefits that I was fortunate applied to me even in my part time state. I also loved having the extra time with my kiddo, but not so much that I wanted it every day of the week, constantly. I felt like it was a pretty good balance when I only had the one kiddo. My husband is also off on Fridays so the extra time with him was great, too!
what isn't so awesome about it?
It always felt like I wasn't fully in one world or the other. I had set days of day care, and occasionally would have to ask for an additional half day or full day if they had availability because there was a meeting I couldn't miss. Or I'd miss a fun team lunch because it was on my day off. Also, SAHMs would try to schedule with me and unless they stuck with my day off, I would be the difficult one to schedule with. They would have activities like music class or something on the days I was off, so I'd barely see them, or they just wouldn't think to invite me to things and then I'd have the awkward bump into them on the bus moments.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
So actually, I went back to work after having my second just recently, thinking I would continue with the same 3 day/week schedule, and it was a little like my first time going back in that part of me hated the idea of not spending time bonding with my kids all the time, but I also loved the idea of not being with two small kids constantly. It turns out they didn't want me back unless I converted back to full time, so I said goodbye. I now have been enjoying even more extra time with my kiddos, bonding with my au pair, and doing a lot of cooking, some volunteering, and somehow still feeling very busy despite not working and having up to 45 hours/week of child care. I still feel like 2 young kids is a full time job even if the hours are just shifted to middle of the night wake-ups and evenings/weekends, and honestly I stick around and help or chat with my au pair a lot of the time too.
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why you did it?
Due to some bad luck my wife and I both were laid off a few months ago all while she's expecting our 2nd son. I received a pretty decent service package so it gave me time to think. Wife was planning to be a SAHM anyway since we'd have 2 kids soon. For the past 2 yrs I was also working as a freelancer during nights and weekends bringing in around 30k annually so we still have some income stream. The lack of insurance and benefits did make me go out and check out the job market but I didn't see anything good at the pay I was used to overall I'm quite bored of my field and I was not motivated to get a similar job in a cubicle. Then I also figured since i'm having another kid soon i should just take time off and test out the downshifting so i can be home to spend time with the family.
what your downshift looks like?
Currently I'm self employed working at home picking up projects from Upwork. I have 2 steady clients for whom I do development work for and they've been sending more work my way as I've made myself available during regular business hours M-F. So I expect to bring in 50-80k a yr working 20-30hrs a week depending on how many hours I put in. This is a far cry from the 180k we were bringing in when my wife and I were both employed FT and certainly will slow down my full FIRE plan, but I guess there are benefits too as we're saving on commuting, child care expenses, a lot of tax breaks for lower income family of 4 and getting to spend a lot of time with the little ones and overall it's less stress.
what isn't so awesome about it?
The fact that my hours while less are sporadic so it's tough to make day plans with the family, the clients can call upon me any time during regular business hours and I can only bill them for the time i'm doing work. Also no benefits. With a FT job you get Holidays, vacation days, 401k matching, health, dental and you get paid for downtime. I have two big clients and when it gets busy I feel like i'm working two FT jobs without the benefits and at half the pay. There's definitely busy and slow times but it's hard to predict and plan vacations around so i usually end up working a bit on vacation as I don't want to lose out on the projects. The stress is definitely better working for myself and less hours, I think once i figure out how to manage my time better and the clients expectations and maybe increase my hourly rates as i get more established things will get easier.
Health insurance is a big expense and I do want to get the maximum ACA subsidies so while I want to make more so i can put more into investments so I can FIRE sooner I also have to be mindful of not making too much or I'll end up losing out on ACA subsidies. The good thing is I can contribute a lot to my individual 401k and deduct a lot of business expenses to lower my MAGI as much as possible when I do make more.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I'm 50% of the way to my FI # so i figured I will continue with the freelancing part time and to cover my expenses and let my investments coast to FIRE in 7-10yrs. I may even continue doing a little freelancing after reaching FI so I'd still feel like I was productive and definitely helps to cushion the account and allowing for more splurging on vacations and such.
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Heard at work today:
Other co-worker had tried to call me last Friday, but I wasn't there.
Me to 2 co-workers: I am not here on Fridays anymore.
Co-worker 1 to me: Oh, you are working 80% now?
Me: Yes.
Co-worker 2: Linda is so rich that she doesn't need to work fulltime.
Me thinking: Is he talking about the other Linda in our department, the one who tried to call me on Friday? No, he is looking at me, he is probably talking about me...
Co-worker 2: <Laughing out loud at me taking so much time to catch his joke>
Me: Um, yes, I save so much of my income that I can afford to work a bit less. And I did it for my health, to reduce stress.
I didn't mention to them that I intend to FIRE and that even my FIRE plans can afford a 20% reduction in brutto income.
I think they will get a bit of a shock next year if I would tell them.
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How lovely to have Fridays off! And to reap the benefits of your hard work. You're inspiring me to go part-time for my health.
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Heard at work today:
Other co-worker had tried to call me last Friday, but I wasn't there.
Me to 2 co-workers: I am not here on Fridays anymore.
Co-worker 1 to me: Oh, you are working 80% now?
Me: Yes.
Co-worker 2: Linda is so rich that she doesn't need to work fulltime.
Me thinking: Is he talking about the other Linda in our department, the one who tried to call me on Friday? No, he is looking at me, he is probably talking about me...
Co-worker 2: <Laughing out loud at me taking so much time to catch his joke>
Me: Um, yes, I save so much of my income that I can afford to work a bit less. And I did it for my health, to reduce stress.
I didn't mention to them that I intend to FIRE and that even my FIRE plans can afford a 20% reduction in brutto income.
I think they will get a bit of a shock next year if I would tell them.
I have never lived in Norway, but I've lived in Denmark and Sweden, and this sounds a little bit like a Janteloven issue to me (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante for the uninitiated)
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Heard at work today:
Other co-worker had tried to call me last Friday, but I wasn't there.
Me to 2 co-workers: I am not here on Fridays anymore.
Co-worker 1 to me: Oh, you are working 80% now?
Me: Yes.
Co-worker 2: Linda is so rich that she doesn't need to work fulltime.
Me thinking: Is he talking about the other Linda in our department, the one who tried to call me on Friday? No, he is looking at me, he is probably talking about me...
Co-worker 2: <Laughing out loud at me taking so much time to catch his joke>
Me: Um, yes, I save so much of my income that I can afford to work a bit less. And I did it for my health, to reduce stress.
I didn't mention to them that I intend to FIRE and that even my FIRE plans can afford a 20% reduction in brutto income.
I think they will get a bit of a shock next year if I would tell them.
I have never lived in Norway, but I've lived in Denmark and Sweden, and this sounds a little bit like a Janteloven issue to me (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante for the uninitiated)
Could be... That is why I think I'd better work out some cover story when we really are going to FIRE next year. Probably the consultancy story.
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Thanks to all who shared their stories here! I appreciate the different perspectives and experiences.
I find it hard to imagine myself downshifting but it is a good thought exercise for me to consider different ways of structuring my path to FIRE. My company currently doesn't support reduced hours except for a handful of very senior people who have been then for decades so I don't see it happening in place at this time. An alternative would be consulting gigs with intermittent time off although not sure I want to deal with what goes along with that. I do feel like the once kids are fully launched that we will be able to get to our fire number within a couple years and I feel right now that I'd rather put in a couple years full time than many years part time. Eat my vegetables, so to speak, then never have to earn a dime again - just focus on volunteering, traveling, and hobbies. Current thinking is that's a better fit for me. DW however is probably more likely to want to work a couple days a week for a long time. As I said, some food for thought as we figure out our path. Thanks again!
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An update
I’ve survive my 1 year volunteering and am heading back to home in a couple of weeks to resume my downsized/ semi-fired lifestyle. I’ve enjoyed my year out here but still struggle a bit with the oh man, you mean I’ve got to work Friday too? However, since my family are back home the extra days at work have kept me occupied so not minded it from that PoV but is a pain having to spend Saturday doing household chores and looking for groceries (not always easy out here) and then only having Sunday as a proper chill out day/weekend.
I have a part time gig lined up when I get home, after taking 4-5 weeks off over summer: 3x6 hr days per week. That’ll do me.
What will I do on my return?
Looking forward to my long weekends back, reconnecting with family and friends and eating plenty of fresh fruit and vegies- which are in very short supply out where I am! Also a bit of maintenance on my rentals to catch up on over summer and maybe road trip with my father too.
Also, I’ll be downsizing into one of my rentals (a nice small home of about 80m2 or approx 800sqft I guess) so a 4-5 min walk to work and hopefully a have a reno project or two to do on that.
Kakanui
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An update
I’ve survive my 1 year volunteering and am heading back to home in a couple of weeks to resume my downsized/ semi-fired lifestyle. I’ve enjoyed my year out here but still struggle a bit with the oh man, you mean I’ve got to work Friday too? However, since my family are back home the extra days at work have kept me occupied so not minded it from that PoV but is a pain having to spend Saturday doing household chores and looking for groceries (not always easy out here) and then only having Sunday as a proper chill out day/weekend.
I have a part time gig lined up when I get home, after taking 4-5 weeks off over summer: 3x6 hr days per week. That’ll do me.
What will I do on my return?
Looking forward to my long weekends back, reconnecting with family and friends and eating plenty of fresh fruit and vegies- which are in very short supply out where I am! Also a bit of maintenance on my rentals to catch up on over summer and maybe road trip with my father too.
Also, I’ll be downsizing into one of my rentals (a nice small home of about 80m2 or approx 800sqft I guess) so a 4-5 min walk to work and hopefully a have a reno project or two to do on that.
Kakanui
Working 3 shorter days a week sounds like a sweet deal.
As you have your rentals "working" for you, there is no need to work full time beside that.
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I've "downshifted in place", unintentionally.
My boss got fired on my 3rd day in this job, then a few weeks later the one who did the firing quit.
I've only been going into the office 1-2 days a week. Working from home while the weather is nice. I work enough to meet the requirements but am enjoying this temporary arrangement before I either get fired or motivated back to production.
Reviving this thread with an update.
The above lasted all the way till July of 2018! I switched to a fast paced and demanding career in August, and will downshift again in June, with a 10 week break from work. Carpe Diem my friends!
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- why you did it?
Before my current position, I was at a company that was growing very quickly. For the last three to four years of it, almost all I did was work - long days, weekend days (to “catch up,” which obviously never happened). The culture got toxic and I was burnt out; the company getting sold was the end of the line for me, as I had no loyalty to the new owners. I agreed to go to work for a friend at his one-man operation; he wanted to grow the business, but needed someone to do the books and admin. I agreed, on the condition that I could buy in if I thought it made sense after getting the books in order (seeing the shareholders of the company I left get 80x their investment after eight years may have influenced my desire to want a piece of ownership;).
Being burnt out, I wanted more time off, so I said I’d only do four days per week. It was enough for the first few years (with some f/t weeks thrown in at busy times), but 2017 got very busy and I was back to f/t and NEVER caught up. I didn’t want to work this much and I have no need to work this much.
- what your downshift looks like?
Partway through this year, I hired someone to take over the day-to-day aspects of the business and I immediately got back to four days per week. She is very solid in the position now, and I am CAUGHT UP (an amazing feeling that I never thought I’d feel again) and ready to reduce down to my goal of half time (two office days and an hour or two from home on the other days). This starts next week. I will have to increase to f/t to cover off holidays, but that’s only a few weeks per year.
- what do you like about it?
I know I’m going to love driving less (it’s a 30 minute commute each way, and winter always brings frustrating traffic delays). I will enjoy having more free time to read, do house projects, cook, visit friends/family... whatever I want, really. I have badly wanted this for a long time and I feel a deep sense of satisfaction that it’s finally happening.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I’m a bit worried that I will feel out of the loop, but I’m sure I will get over it!
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Assuming this goes well, I think I would be quite happy to be 20-50% time for the next five years at least. I would not want to be a completely uninvolved shareholder, so unless the company gets sold or one of my partners wants to purchase my shares, I will be there in a financial oversight capacity.
The retirement stash is enough now for barebones RE, so working p/t will cover all regular expenses as it grows. My husband is still working for a year or two. The company is also paying dividends which, if it continues to grow as it has, could more than fund our modest lifestyle. Given this, it’s possible that we have oversaved, but nothing is guaranteed.
I’ve been wanting to get more involved in my community league and saw that the Treasurer position is open. I emailed about it and I seem to have gotten the (volunteer!) job, so that will take up some of my new free time. It’s a good match for my skill set and I’ll be able to meet some new people who live nearby (not easy to do when one has no children).
UPDATE
Around March/April 2018 the busy season started. I worked some extra days during that time, but have mostly managed to keep it to 3 days per week (2 days per week simply did not happen yet, sadly). I am starting to get a lot of pushback from one of my business partners (the majority shareholder) about working more. He’s not saying it directly, but it feels like he wants me to implement our expansion into a new geographical location. I’ve explained that since I have less than zero enthusiasm for expansion (or working more, period), that it’s not me who will be driving this initiative.
This “schedule” conflict (which is mostly him having terrible work habits and worse organizational skills and thinking my presence in the office will help — my tasks that I’m responsible for are easily done in 2-3 days per week) is going to end up with me leaving the company, I am quite certain. Provided I can get bought out for fair value of my shares, I’m completely fine with that. I don’t think that he will be; it will make for an interesting transition (possibly something for the Epic FU Money thread, but I hope not). The person I hired in July 2017 to take over my everyday tasks is still awesome and I am eternally grateful to her for making my downshift possible.
I’ve gotten more comfortable in the volunteer treasurer role. It turned out to be a bit more work than expected, but after getting past the first year, everything is more familiar and should go more smoothly. The monthly board meetings can be a bit of a drag, but I have met some great people in the community by taking on this role, so I think it is worth it. It’s not forever, either!
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I'm a bit late to the party, but admin has started working out how to let me go PT next year! It looks like it's going to work out.
- why you did it?
FT teaching is 50+ hours per week, easy. I feel like I can't even do my job properly in that time - particularly because I like doing the "fun" stuff like running afterschool clubs and leading programs. I also have two classes to complete to get my Master's. I can't do that, teach full time, and maintain my mental health.
- what your downshift looks like?
I should be at 50% time (3 classes instead of 5; 1 subject instead of 2). Benefits are still offered. I'll also be taking my classes (~10 hours per week time investment). So this will still total 35 hours per week or so, but with breaks and holidays it averages less.
- what do you like about it?
Prioritizing the parts of the job I like. Not taking work home. Keeping benefits. Staying sane. Still get school breaks off.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I still don't get to pick my own schedule. Boundaries will be hard to maintain. Raises will be less frequent.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Half time pays my expenses but no more. My stash isn't big enough for coastFI (7% at current spend rate). After I finish my MEd, I'll either bump up hours to 75% time, take on tutoring gigs, work some marginal hours over the summer, or something like that. RE around age 50. It's not perfect but it'll do.
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I'm an accidental downshifter. Last year I was in an unsustainable work situation. I handed in my notice at the beginning of July. I had a long compulsory notice period and actually finished work at the beginning of November, aged 54. When I resigned I'd done the sums and knew we could survive financially even if I didn't work again, but it ended up being a FU money/jump and the net will appear situation and by the time I'd finished I'd been offered my current role. I'm now doing the parts of my job I enjoy, in manageable 6-hour chunks 2-4 days a week, on a freelance basis.
Good things:
I feel a million times better physically and mentally for having escaped from my previous job.
I still get to do what I trained to do, what I loved doing for most of my career, and what I've got decades of experience of doing, but I'm spared the stress and tedium that comes with doing that role in a committed way.
I do enough that every working day isn't like a Monday, which is how a former colleague described their experience of working one day a week.
The money definitely helps! I've never been without an income and it's reassuring not to have to dip into savings and investments just yet. I have lots of transferable skills, but doing what I've always done is a far more efficient way of generating an income than doing any other form of work I could secure easily at my age. The amount is enough to bridge the gap between what my husband earns and what we spend, with scope to contribute to our investments most months.
My husband is a little younger than I am and is still working, and it makes sense for both of us to work part time and then both retire or have a long break from work together.
I have just enough of a work commitment to prevent me from getting up to the neck in voluntary work, which I knew was a risk. Friends who have done that seem to be busier and more tied down than I am, but without the compensation of being paid in money and appreciation.
I have time for marathon training for the first time in years, but not so much time that I'm likely to end up overtrained.
Less good things:
I still go to work. Duh! My time isn't entirely my own. And although I no longer have 13+ hour working days I do work some weekend days as those are better remunerated.
I still have to belong to professional organisations and jump through regulatory hoops.
With all this extra time on my hands, I feel as if I ought to be keeping the house like a new pin and getting on top of the gardening. Nope.
Plans:
I'll keep doing what I'm doing for as long as that specific role is available and I don't mind doing it. I can't imagine taking on a "real job" again. If even the amount/type of work I'm doing starts to feel like an imposition, or if the nature of the work changes to incorporate the things I "retired" to avoid, I'll stop and drift into proper retirement.
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Fuuuuuuuuck me.
*Sigh*
Okay...so I just volunteered to work 25% more hours, which sounds like a lot, but it's really just a 3rd work day every second week. It will bump my income by over 25%.
I don't need more money as I have no FIRE goal and I make more than enough as it is, so while more money is nice, it's really not a motivator for me.
However, I'm in serious, dangerous level of demand right now and it's affecting my ability to do my job and my enjoyment of my work. The owner is also over burdened and desperate for me to take on more hours so that she can cut back. In 6 months though, at this rate of growth, we're totally fucked.
I will be using this move to ram-rod through some institutional changes that I've been hesitant to push too hard because there's resistance. But me coming back after only recently cutting my hours is a huge opportunity to push everyone out of their comfort zone.
I'm going to use this move to finally push through a significant price increase in our services that everyone has resisted because they never saw our raging success as the impending disaster that I saw coming. They were all terrified to lose clients, but I'm dying to cull the herd.
We literally can't expand any further, we need to lower demand. It's not negotiable at this point, we *must* reduce our existing and new client flow, but without killing it by actually turning away clients. Hence a price increase.
So yeah, with this move I'm hoping to not only get the demand back down to a level where I can go back to 2 days a week and the owner can cut back, but where our profits will be so much greater that it doesn't actually negatively affect our bottom line.
Ugh...I don't want to work more, but at the very least, I'll make proportionally more money than hours added. Plus, I'll only be providing limited services on my added days, which are strictly low stress services that I want to build up as a core part of my business anyway.
All in all, it's good in many ways, but I'm exceptionally wary of any and ALL moves that require me to work harder as the answer to a problem. When I do actually *have to* work harder, it motivates me to find creative solutions to make it as temporary as possible.
A happy and balanced life *must* be protected because almost every goddamn force out there is working against it.
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Spoken like a true downshifter!
All in all, it's good in many ways, but I'm exceptionally wary of any and ALL moves that require me to work harder as the answer to a problem. When I do actually *have to* work harder, it motivates me to find creative solutions to make it as temporary as possible.
A happy and balanced life *must* be protected because almost every goddamn force out there is working against it.
I especially like this bit :) . I was known to have a high work ethic and overworked my scheduled hours always....little did they know this was what I was thinking inside.
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As of tomorrow, I will be at 60%.
- why you did it?
I was originally planning on going full force until FIRE, but over the last 2-3 years, changed over to a plan to downshift for several years prior to FIRE. My reasons were to test out the FIRE lifestyle while still having the security of a job. In my career, if you take more than one year off, it is really hard to get back in. I also will have the security of health insurance, while all the kinks get worked out with Obamacare (will it continue to exist, and in what form?).
As for the timing, it was two-fold. I just had my 3rd child, and wanted to work less after maternity leave. And I have a milestone birthday (I'll turn 40 in one week), and really wanted to start living the FIRE lifestyle before then.
- what your downshift looks like?
I will work 24 hrs per week. The schedule will be 48 hrs over 4 days, then 10 days off.
- what do you like about it?
First my schedule will now be predictable. My prior schedule was completely unpredictable, with no idea when I'd get home for the day.
Second, with the 10 days off in a row, it will allow for easy trips to see family or to go on camping trips. And if I need more than 10 days, it should be easy to swap my work days with my colleagues.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
The 4 days will be pretty intense. It will be a combo of day and night shifts, so the day after will be spent on recovery.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I was on track to reach FI in another 2-3 years. With the decrease in salary, I'm probably 5 years out now. When I reach FI, then I'll evaluate whether to RE, depending on how much I still like my job.
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My husband started working overseas a few years ago, so to see him, I began to work 2 months on, 2 months off. The workplace at the time was small and found it difficult to cope, so when I was approached by a larger organisation, I told them right up from my intention, which they were fine with.
When they asked how many days per week, I intended to say 5, but 4 came out of my mouth. I work about 36 hours over 4 days which is pretty intense, but I love Wednesdays off. Never more than 2 days from a day off!
When I started this plan around 3.5 years ago I was at about 35% of my goal FIRE total, and Due in part to selling my house (before climate change ruined it) and stashing that cash and renting a small unit, I am now at 57% of FIRE total goal. I project I can get to barebones FIRE in 4 years, fingers crossed!
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Great work Auslady, its amazing what shapes a working week can be bent into with a good employer. I never went up to 4 days a week, but I always planned that if I did I would have Weds off.
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My "hope" is to downshift in about 8-10 years (age 55-ish), after my house is paid off and my kids are out of college. By that time I should have a high enough net worth to make that feasible. I would probably start by negotiating a 4 day work week at my current job, and doing that for a few years, then 3 days if possible (less likely). If I can't keep my current job, I will look for a lower stress retail job. A lot of it depends on how independent my kids are (one with a mental illness, one with high functioning autism).
In all honestly, I think for people in tech, this is becoming a pretty common scenario as companies like to lay off older higher paid employees and replace them with entry level employees. I know a fair number of engineers and scientists who get aged out in their mid to late 50s.
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Update.
Well crap.
No success on ramming through changes. I *could* do it if I were willing to push harder, but I'm over it.
Instead, I'm taking 6 weeks off and refusing to work extra hours when I return and cutting back my responsibilities significantly.
It's a bold move and one where I should lose my job over it, but I won't.
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I think you are right. If you let yourself be pressed to work more than you can or want to, they will take advantage of you. They could better hire more people, presuming those exist.
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I think you are right. If you let yourself be pressed to work more than you can or want to, they will take advantage of you. They could better hire more people, presuming those exist.
Not really an option, and I'm definitely not being taken advantage of, I'm treated like solid gold.
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I'm two weeks in as a part-timer. So far it's working well. I'm working about 2-3 days a week as a contractor for my former employer. We were able to nix our part-time nanny. I've been able to work on starting up a woodworking business, which has long been my dream. It looks like our first month, our total income will be the same as last month. If I can keep that up while doing the work that I've been trying to "retire" to, then I will be a happy man.
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Hi Downshifters! An aspiring downshifter (maybe) here.
I’m a little bit cautious and a nervous stock market investor. I was a mortgage over-payer for years and found MMM a couple of years ago aged 40. The main thing I learned from the blog wasn’t really frugality but not being scared to invest. So I have no debt (yay) and have invested 80%+ for the last two years (yay) but am scared of a crash (boo) and how to approach the next part of my FIRE journey.
This is a really useful thread. I was really inspired by happy’s story among others and was hoping to feel emboldened by those actively living the part time life.
I wasn’t surprised that this thread was on the Post-FIRE board as I was originally thinking I would go part time once I hit 25X expenses. The part time job could get me to a 3-3.25% WR or so I thought. I then realised learning from these forums that with not having any dependents this was a bit cautious even for me. Could I actually use the part time work to perhaps get me to 25X expenses rather than from 25X expenses. It seems many of you haven’t hit FI before going part time and it’s a bit of this bravery that I could do with. I expect for the majority of you, you didn’t feel you were being brave, but that’s how cautious and nervous I am.
As I have a high savings rate a big part of me feels I should grind to full FI. However the jump from saving 80%+ to drawing on the stash feels too big to me. I almost feel I need two inbetween stages:
(1) Work FT - savings rate at full potential
(2) Work PT (same role as FT job) - perhaps 30%-45% SR
(3) Work PT (fun job) - 0% SR - just covers expenses
(4) FIRE
The other advantages of part time is that it helps qualification for state pension (age 68) as well as providing social interaction and a bit of structure to a week (I’m thinking 3 days PT).
The bit I’m having difficulty with is knowing when to make the leap from 1 to 2. I’ve started to think perhaps hitting a lean FIRE number would be ideal but it’s interesting how many in this thread did it before that. I’m very conscious of making the leap, stocks then falling 30% and staying there for ten years meaning I’m a long way from FI, while balancing the fact that a better work life balance sooner is very appealing. The days are ticking away where I will be at my most active and in a healthy enough state to do hobbies/sports etc.
It would be interesting to know what gave people the confidence to make the move to part time. It may have been a partners income for example. I’m single so don’t have that. I’m struggling a little to see through the full time to FIRE versus part time fog, and understand what level of expenses is good enough to have saved in order to achieve FIRE inevitability, allowing part time to be a sensible option.
Edit: to say I’m low expenses rather than high income, probably makes a difference.
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I was really inspired by happy’s story among others and was hoping to feel emboldened by those actively living the part time life.
I’m chuffed you were inspired by my story.
How did I get the confidence to move part-time? Well, it was quite well accepted in my job to go part-time after having a baby for up to a few years. Secondly I had a high income and so could still pull in good money working part-time. Thirdly with the Aussie taxation system if I worked more than the 3 days, my additional income would have been high enough to be taxed at 50% and I really couldn’t stomach the idea of all that added stress and reduced quality of life for half as much per hour! Additionally in my area there is a labour shortage and so I could dictate my hours without fear of losing my job.
When you switch to part-time depends on how soon you want to retire and what trade-offs are you willing to make? I would run some figures on how long it will take you if you work different numbers of days, and start from different baselines...this might give you a feel for what you would prefer. I found this calculator helpful:
http://jaws.tips/stuff/interest.html (http://jaws.tips/stuff/interest.html). When I was running scenarios.
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Thanks for the reply happy. Yep you completely rock and I think it’s great you have made a career based around a part time schedule and parenting for that length of time. Your employer clearly thinks a lot of you.
The combination of high income and good security are key here I think. That would give me more confidence if I was in that position. The only job I could do part time and still generate a savings rate is my current one. Security isn’t great. If I left that job I could probably get a part time job in a different field that covered my expenses. I would want to be FI though to drop to number 3 in my list.
Thanks for the calculator. After these last few days in the markets having the confidence to drop to part time suddenly feels a long way away!
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Thirdly with the Aussie taxation system if I worked more than the 3 days, my additional income would have been high enough to be taxed at 50% and I really couldn’t stomach the idea of all that added stress and reduced quality of life for half as much per hour!
I've had similar thoughts in the past. With a typical white-collar salary in the US the marginal federal income tax rate is somewhere between 22%-34% (at current tax rates -- which are historically pretty low -- depending on salary, filing status, and spouse's income). Add in another ~8% for Social Security/Medicare and we're at 30%-42%. Then state/local taxes, which vary widely but could easily be an additional 10%+. 50% is certainly in the right ballpark for many.
So for someone with a high enough salary to live on part-time income, every 10 hour reduction in work likely results in ~5 hours of lost salary. Or, put another way, if you can afford to give up 5 hours worth of salary per week, you'll get back 10 hours of vacation per week. 520 hours vacation time per year -- that's 13 more weeks of vacation!
Even accounting for some lost vacation accrual for that 1/8 reduction in work hours -- which is 2.5 fewer vacation days per year with a typical 4-weeks-per-year vacation of a mid-career white collar professional -- you'll still have 12.5 extra weeks of vacation, in exchange for 12.5% less $$ in your pocket. 12.5 (weeks) for -12.5% (income). That's some symmetry I can get on board with, and a seriously tempting trade-off if you can afford it.
As an aside, this analysis doesn't include the ~8% imputed FICA taxes your employer has to pay on your behalf...though good luck negotiating getting any of that back when downshifting your hours. :D
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Thirdly with the Aussie taxation system if I worked more than the 3 days, my additional income would have been high enough to be taxed at 50% and I really couldn’t stomach the idea of all that added stress and reduced quality of life for half as much per hour!
I've had similar thoughts in the past. With a typical white-collar salary in the US the marginal federal income tax rate is somewhere between 22%-34% (at current tax rates -- which are historically pretty low -- depending on salary, filing status, and spouse's income). Add in another ~8% for Social Security/Medicare and we're at 30%-42%. Then state/local taxes, which vary widely but could easily be an additional 10%+. 50% is certainly in the right ballpark for many.
So for someone with a high enough salary to live on part-time income, every 10 hour reduction in work likely results in ~5 hours of lost salary. Or, put another way, if you can afford to give up 5 hours worth of salary per week, you'll get back 10 hours of vacation per week. 520 hours vacation time per year -- that's 13 more weeks of vacation!
Even accounting for some lost vacation accrual for that 1/8 reduction in work hours -- which is 2.5 fewer vacation days per year with a typical 4-weeks-per-year vacation of a mid-career white collar professional -- you'll still have 12.5 extra weeks of vacation, in exchange for 12.5% less $$ in your pocket. 12.5 (weeks) for -12.5% (income). That's some symmetry I can get on board with, and a seriously tempting trade-off if you can afford it.
As an aside, this analysis doesn't include the ~8% imputed FICA taxes your employer has to pay on your behalf...though good luck negotiating getting any of that back when downshifting your hours. :D
This is me too.
Thanks to marginal taxes here, it's pretty pointless for me to work full time. I take a nearly 50% pay cut on the last 15-20 hrs of my week, aka the hardest hours to work, so why bother working them?
Most people in my profession choose to incorporate at that point, but that comes with massive legal and accounting fees and actually costs more in tax unless we are making a huge income working very long hours or own the business, or both, none of which appeals to me, nor does the math actually work with my personal goals.
AFM, I'm currently on my mini sabbatical and loving it. I've decided that on top of dropping to part time, I also want to take a lot more time off of work. I haven't up to now, because I've had a hard time justifying it to myself with the downshift, but not taking enough time off lets too much focus on work build up. I'm going to aim to take off 2 weeks nearly every quarter.
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I take a nearly 50% pay cut on the last 15-20 hrs of my week, aka the hardest hours to work, so why bother working them?
Exactly, although most of my colleagues looked at me a bit weirdly when I said that and muttered something about needing the money. In my specialty there was not enough private billing to make incorporating worthwhile either, and of course then there’s the headache and cost of all that extra admin
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I take a nearly 50% pay cut on the last 15-20 hrs of my week, aka the hardest hours to work, so why bother working them?
Exactly, although most of my colleagues looked at me a bit weirdly when I said that and muttered something about needing the money. In my specialty there was not enough private billing to make incorporating worthwhile either, and of course then there’s the headache and cost of all that extra admin
In my world, there are owners and associates.
The owners are leveraged up to their eyeballs for a long time, and the overheads on the businesses are enormous, so they literally have to work full time. They don't have a choice.
The associates take home more because we aren't shoveling everything into business loans. However, those loan payments pay out on the back end in equity, so the owners retire with a lot more money, but they have to work longer and can't really cut back until near the end of their career.
Most of my colleagues aren't willing to give up millions. Meanwhile, I'm not willing to give up my health and sanity.
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I posted the same thing below on another thread which linked to this one. I enjoyed reading so much that I decided to post my version hoping to revive the thread and allow others to join in...
I'm a self employed CPA. I guess you could say I've shifted to part-time. I work from Noon to 5 pm each work day. No weekends ever anymore. Some days less than 5 hours, some days maybe six. During tax season, I'll need to work closer to 40 hours a week for a 5-6 week stretch.
I downshifted out of necessity. I had an emergency surgery in Dec of 2016 which resulted in a Crohn's Disease diagnosis.
I physically can't work more than I do without feeling like I'm killing myself. It is a strange feeling working 25 or so hours a week and feeling worn out when I used to consistently work 60-70 hours a week without blinking an eye. It's been a tough adjustment.
Long story short, I really don't care much for my career, so I would actually prefer the "hurry to the finish line" approach. But I don't have that option. I'm blessed in that our savings rate hovers between 65-70%, so it isn't like I have to do this for 30 years.
We did get a late start. It took my surgery, diagnosis, and continued health struggles for my wife to get on board with frugal living.
I turn 34 next month. I'm probably looking at another 10 years of doing this before I can sell my small book of business and retire. If I'm lucky, maybe 6-7 years. If I'm unlucky, maybe 14 years. All of those are much better options than working til my 60s though. I couldn't make it that long unless my health improves.
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It would be interesting to know what gave people the confidence to make the move to part time. It may have been a partners income for example. I’m single so don’t have that. I’m struggling a little to see through the full time to FIRE versus part time fog, and understand what level of expenses is good enough to have saved in order to achieve FIRE inevitability, allowing part time to be a sensible option.
Edit: to say I’m low expenses rather than high income, probably makes a difference.
I downshifted about the time I hit 20x of my projected FIRE expenses. At that point, the 'stache is doing the heavy lifting. I wish I had known that the market was going to do so much of the work for me after saving early in my career, but I kept thinking that a crash or at least long-term market stagnation was coming. Being invested through both 2000 and 2008 definitely left its mark, so I always expect nothing from the markets. Of course I also stayed invested from 2009 to now, so the markets beat my paranoid projections.
If I had known how much of the work the market would do for me over the past 10 years I would have downshifted earlier (maybe at 10-15x planned expenses) and lived a more balanced life through my 30s. Oh well, this approach got me to FIRE at 42, so I guess it turned out ok at the end.
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Hi FIRE 20/20. Thanks very much for your reply. That’s really interesting. Yes a crash or stagnation is what concerns me. I’m fighting a bit against automation and job wise due to my location this is in all likelihood the most I will earn in my career. If I dropped to a 3 day week, the market falls and is flat for a while I could easily be back down around 12X expenses without the ability to heavily invest having left the higher earning job. I appreciate there is a lot to go wrong there all at once but it’s not that inconceivable. I’m 42 now so feel I need to get this decision right.
If I enjoyed my job more it would make sense to carry on full time and get the job done. However my work is becoming increasingly stressful. The work itself is fine but the corporate environment seems to become less affable as time goes by.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
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I'm soon to downshift. Been looking forward to it for quite some time.
Why you did it.
I was essentially always planning to downshift at some point, as my career makes it easy to do so. It was the timing that was in question. I was starting to burnout a bit. There were a couple of periods last year when I chose to work 35-40 days straight. Our volume tends to go up in winter, and during the last one I was physically feeling it a lot more. Not getting any younger. Also, my father passed away this July and this will give me more flexibility in helping my mother over the long term.
What your downshift looks like.
Halftime. One week on/one off, more specifically 5 days on (40 hours), then 9 days off. Call every 5th weekend. Still eligible for bennies, albeit with health insurance at a higher rate...going from $16.62/paycheck to $45-50. 4.6% 403b match and 12% pto intact. Will have pto bank maxed at 480 hrs. Plan to keep most of that as a ST disability policy for now. Can easily take more work or call on. We have an app to trade shifts. At base, looking at earning $40k/yr minimum.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
The flexibility and stability inherent to my job makes it difficult to cross whatever threshold is needed to FIRE from it completely. In fact, at some point, I could downshift even further. Being able to ignore SORR is tempting. Even so, I'd like to keep myself on a strong pace until I reach FI, and reach a comfortable RE amount in 5-10 years. I'll still keep investing:). My portfolio is at about 85% of basic living expenses using the 4% rule.
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Hi FIRE 20/20. Thanks very much for your reply. That’s really interesting. Yes a crash or stagnation is what concerns me. I’m fighting a bit against automation and job wise due to my location this is in all likelihood the most I will earn in my career. If I dropped to a 3 day week, the market falls and is flat for a while I could easily be back down around 12X expenses without the ability to heavily invest having left the higher earning job. I appreciate there is a lot to go wrong there all at once but it’s not that inconceivable. I’m 42 now so feel I need to get this decision right.
If I enjoyed my job more it would make sense to carry on full time and get the job done. However my work is becoming increasingly stressful. The work itself is fine but the corporate environment seems to become less affable as time goes by.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
How close to FI are you? If you dropped to PT, how well would that alleviate the issues you have with your current job? I also have low expenses/80% SR, and it certainly opens your options up.
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Hi SpareChange. I’m probably about five years away from FIRE (defined for me as 30X expenses). Part time would certainly help alleviate the issues with my current job in that I would have more time to recover from work. It would also mean running the home and ‘life tasks’ wouldn’t need to be squeezed in around work. A jump from 1 to 3 in my list below may work better although I’m conscious all jobs have their challenges, and at least now my hourly rate is sufficient to save and compensate me for the time work takes from me.
(1) Work FT - savings rate at full potential 80%+
(2) Work PT (same role as FT job) - perhaps 30%-45% SR
(3) Work PT (fun job) - 0% SR - just covers expenses
(4) FIRE
You are right that low expenses do open up a lot of options. I’m currently spending £10-£11k a year ($12.3-$13.5k) but am basing FIRE figures on £18k or $22k.
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From Januar 2020 DH and I will downshift to 0% work. :-)
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From Januar 2020 DH and I will downshift to 0% work. :-)
That’s fantastic! Congratulations:)
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I'm joining this thread as my dh and I are downshifters, and I'm interested in following what others are experiencing!
DH started doing three days a week in 2013 after my maternity leave finished. His manager thought it was temporary until child grew a bit, but if they make him go back to FT hours, he'll likely quit. (we're almost to bare-bones FIRE). I am working part time, though it is difficult to quantify since I'm on call for 48 or 72 hours straight then a 9-5 day of clinic and a morning meeting each week. Some call blocks are go-go-go and others I sit around at home/work minimally. In terms of clients, I'm taking 4/5 of a full caseload, but only on call 1/3 of the time. So it's a good gig.
I'm taking a sabbatical for 2020. During this year, I'm hoping to get a sense of what expenses will be in retirement, and that will let us know how much more we have to work.
Although... after downshifting, life has become a lot more manageable, and I'm not sure that I want to finish work. My work is meaningful, and if the hours remain tenable I may stay on much longer and perhaps pad our stash for fat fire, or maybe increase our charitable giving... or a combination.
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I'm joining this thread as my dh and I are downshifters, and I'm interested in following what others are experiencing!
DH started doing three days a week in 2013 after my maternity leave finished. His manager thought it was temporary until child grew a bit, but if they make him go back to FT hours, he'll likely quit. (we're almost to bare-bones FIRE). I am working part time, though it is difficult to quantify since I'm on call for 48 or 72 hours straight then a 9-5 day of clinic and a morning meeting each week. Some call blocks are go-go-go and others I sit around at home/work minimally. In terms of clients, I'm taking 4/5 of a full caseload, but only on call 1/3 of the time. So it's a good gig.
I'm taking a sabbatical for 2020. During this year, I'm hoping to get a sense of what expenses will be in retirement, and that will let us know how much more we have to work.
Although... after downshifting, life has become a lot more manageable, and I'm not sure that I want to finish work. My work is meaningful, and if the hours remain tenable I may stay on much longer and perhaps pad our stash for fat fire, or maybe increase our charitable giving... or a combination.
Welcome! That's an interesting PT schedule you've got there, Nangirl. Looking forward to seeing how it works out for you.
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- why you did it?
I wanted to travel more and have more time for my life/hobbies, which wasn't possible with FT.
- what your downshift looks like?
WFH M-F and come in the office 1.5 days a week.
- what do you like about it?
saves me about 15 - 20 hours a week in lost time/commuting and I can be way more productive at home.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
with current pay I'm 15 years away from full fire. but i feel like i can't do a normal job anyways lol so this is my only option.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Just keep on trucking and retire in 15 years, maybe get something remote and time flexible that's even higher paying..
came here to get advice from those on the other end. I can't picture being in an office full time and I feel like this works for me so it's worth delaying my retirement especially since some of my hobbies can only be pursued while young. the only issue is I don't have enough time to dedicate to everything so I move at quite a slow pace on all my projects.
Any advice is appreciated.
I feel this is the best way to enjoy many of the benefits of FIRE before hitting that number, and I'd rather enjoy those benefits in my 20's rather than my 50's.
Even if I worked full time I could only be completely FIRE'd in my 40s and I would have to stop my hobbies completely, meaning it would be way more difficult to make any progress in my hobbies. (Hobbies im into avg age is 15 - 25 lol)
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What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Downshifting becomes feasible in a few years when our living expenses drop. I'd like to shift to 80% in 3 years, then gradually down to 50%. Then it's just enjoying health insurance + other benefits for OMY while the stash grows.
Here we are, 2 yrs 4 mos later. Mortgage is paid off as of yesterday, several months ahead of schedule. In theory I could drop down to a 65% work schedule immediately, and it would exactly offset the amount of money no longer going to the mortgage P&I.
However, we do need to bolster a handful of savings accounts that will eventually be used to replace big ticket items around the house (HVAC, roof, driveway, septic, etc.). I intend to continue full-time until those accounts are in good shape, which could happen as soon as ~6 months from now. At which point...
What your downshift will look like?
First go from 5x8=40 down to 4x8=32 for a year or two. Then 3x8=24 or possibly 4x6=24. Ultimately something like 4x5=20 or (2x8)+(1x4)=20
Once our non-retirement savings are where we want them to be, I plan on talking with management about switching to an 80% schedule on a trial basis. I'm on the fence between proposing 4x8 with Fridays off, or 4x7 M-Thu, with half days on Fridays.
Pros of 4x8: three day weekend every weekend! Friday can be used to take care of shopping, home maintenance, etc.
Pros of 4x7 + 1x4: shorter work days would be more relaxing, and a half-day Friday still leaves plenty of time to do most errands and jobs around the house. Plus in all likelihood I'd end up working > 7 hours on some days M-Thu, which would result in less than four hours on most Fridays. And if I ever wanted a full Friday off, I could easily take 4 hours (or less) of vacation time and make it so.
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- why you did it?
Before my current position, I was at a company that was growing very quickly. For the last three to four years of it, almost all I did was work - long days, weekend days (to “catch up,” which obviously never happened). The culture got toxic and I was burnt out; the company getting sold was the end of the line for me, as I had no loyalty to the new owners. I agreed to go to work for a friend at his one-man operation; he wanted to grow the business, but needed someone to do the books and admin. I agreed, on the condition that I could buy in if I thought it made sense after getting the books in order (seeing the shareholders of the company I left get 80x their investment after eight years may have influenced my desire to want a piece of ownership;).
Being burnt out, I wanted more time off, so I said I’d only do four days per week. It was enough for the first few years (with some f/t weeks thrown in at busy times), but 2017 got very busy and I was back to f/t and NEVER caught up. I didn’t want to work this much and I have no need to work this much.
- what your downshift looks like?
Partway through this year, I hired someone to take over the day-to-day aspects of the business and I immediately got back to four days per week. She is very solid in the position now, and I am CAUGHT UP (an amazing feeling that I never thought I’d feel again) and ready to reduce down to my goal of half time (two office days and an hour or two from home on the other days). This starts next week. I will have to increase to f/t to cover off holidays, but that’s only a few weeks per year.
- what do you like about it?
I know I’m going to love driving less (it’s a 30 minute commute each way, and winter always brings frustrating traffic delays). I will enjoy having more free time to read, do house projects, cook, visit friends/family... whatever I want, really. I have badly wanted this for a long time and I feel a deep sense of satisfaction that it’s finally happening.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I’m a bit worried that I will feel out of the loop, but I’m sure I will get over it!
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Assuming this goes well, I think I would be quite happy to be 20-50% time for the next five years at least. I would not want to be a completely uninvolved shareholder, so unless the company gets sold or one of my partners wants to purchase my shares, I will be there in a financial oversight capacity.
The retirement stash is enough now for barebones RE, so working p/t will cover all regular expenses as it grows. My husband is still working for a year or two. The company is also paying dividends which, if it continues to grow as it has, could more than fund our modest lifestyle. Given this, it’s possible that we have oversaved, but nothing is guaranteed.
I’ve been wanting to get more involved in my community league and saw that the Treasurer position is open. I emailed about it and I seem to have gotten the (volunteer!) job, so that will take up some of my new free time. It’s a good match for my skill set and I’ll be able to meet some new people who live nearby (not easy to do when one has no children).
UPDATE
Around March/April 2018 the busy season started. I worked some extra days during that time, but have mostly managed to keep it to 3 days per week (2 days per week simply did not happen yet, sadly). I am starting to get a lot of pushback from one of my business partners (the majority shareholder) about working more. He’s not saying it directly, but it feels like he wants me to implement our expansion into a new geographical location. I’ve explained that since I have less than zero enthusiasm for expansion (or working more, period), that it’s not me who will be driving this initiative.
This “schedule” conflict (which is mostly him having terrible work habits and worse organizational skills and thinking my presence in the office will help — my tasks that I’m responsible for are easily done in 2-3 days per week) is going to end up with me leaving the company, I am quite certain. Provided I can get bought out for fair value of my shares, I’m completely fine with that. I don’t think that he will be; it will make for an interesting transition (possibly something for the Epic FU Money thread, but I hope not). The person I hired in July 2017 to take over my everyday tasks is still awesome and I am eternally grateful to her for making my downshift possible.
I’ve gotten more comfortable in the volunteer treasurer role. It turned out to be a bit more work than expected, but after getting past the first year, everything is more familiar and should go more smoothly. The monthly board meetings can be a bit of a drag, but I have met some great people in the community by taking on this role, so I think it is worth it. It’s not forever, either!
Yay! Someone resurrected this thread, which I’ve been wanting to update. In somewhat of a DREAM COME TRUE, my company has agreed to be purchased, and we are in the due diligence phase (one week down of an anticipated four) - this has me working full-time for the next bit, which I’m more than happy to do to facilitate the transaction. The sale talk with the company that’s purchasing us started in early July, so it’s a huge relief to finally have things underway. It would take a pretty big disaster to have this transaction not happen, but I’m still offering up a prayer to the universe that all goes through. It’s structured as an earn out, so we will see 1/6 of the price at closing, another 1/6 after a year, 1/3 after two years and the final 1/3 after three years. The agreed (minimum) price has me quadrupling my initial investment (after having received healthy dividends along the way); there is also strong potential to exceed this amount with the way it’s structured. While it would be nice to have everything up front, I think the long game could work out extremely well.
As for downshifting . . . The purchaser is aware of my preferred schedule, and actually mentioned to my partner that “there may be redundancies in accounting now, so what do you think Step37 will think about that?” to which he replied that I’d be happy to stay on to facilitate whatever transition for as long as they need (accurate). When he told me this, it was presented as good news/bad news (good that we are going to be getting an offer/maybe bad for you, Step37) - I made sure to emphasize that that was ONLY good news! My two partners are the people who are key to the deal (technical knowledge of the industry) - they aren’t going to let the earn out fall apart, so I think I might comfortably be able to step away prior to the three years being up. If not, I should at least be able to maintain a p/t schedule, which isn’t a bad worst-case scenario. I’m not under any illusions that it will be easy, clear sailing for the next while, but at least there is a reasonable end in sight (with a good payout!).
My husband fully downshifted at the beginning of November, when he received a package from his employer. The timing could not have been better, as he was planning to leave within the next several months anyway. Now he’s fully in charge of the cooking and general house stuff, so even if I have to work more for the next while, it will be with so much less stress. I’m beyond grateful for all of the above.
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Yay! Someone resurrected this thread, which I’ve been wanting to update. In somewhat of a DREAM COME TRUE, my company has agreed to be purchased, and we are in the due diligence phase ...
Oh wow, congratulations! If I understand correctly, you will be able to maintain the status quo 2-3 days/week PT schedule for the next 3 years MAX, and possibly less than that. Meanwhile, you'll be getting that initial 1/6 chunk imminently, and another 1/6 in a year. I hope it all goes through as expected, that you can continue your PT schedule without drama, and that all six sixths come your way (and your partners') as planned.
I hope you and your husband have countless adventures together with all that free time!
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My plan is to work FT until March 31 2020, where I will take a 6-12 month sabbatical, after which I would like to explore the possibility of a 3-4 day work week.
I will still be a ways away from my full FIRE # using 4%, but a large majority of my recurring day to day expenses should be covered.
Fun to quote this post years later.
Mission accomplished. Sitting over 25X baseline expenses and leaving for a year of travel in a few short weeks :)
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Yay! Someone resurrected this thread, which I’ve been wanting to update. In somewhat of a DREAM COME TRUE, my company has agreed to be purchased, and we are in the due diligence phase ...
Oh wow, congratulations! If I understand correctly, you will be able to maintain the status quo 2-3 days/week PT schedule for the next 3 years MAX, and possibly less than that. Meanwhile, you'll be getting that initial 1/6 chunk imminently, and another 1/6 in a year. I hope it all goes through as expected, that you can continue your PT schedule without drama, and that all six sixths come your way (and your partners') as planned.
I hope you and your husband have countless adventures together with all that free time!
Yes, you understood correctly! Thank you so much, and congratulations on achieving your 25x and travel goal as well. How exciting - enjoy! 😁
EDITED!!
LOL - I misread the next poster as being you. So, congrats to the OTHER bird name, @2Birds1Stone. Reading comprehension fail.
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I downshifted back in July from a 40hrs/week contract gig + some side gig hours to a 3 x 8hrs/day Mon-Wed contract gig. With 4 months of part time work under my belt I am noticing I don't fit in well to the discussions FT workers are having nor do I resemble the lucky bastards who are FIRE. Downshifting seems to have its own unique set of benefits and challenges. So I figured it was worth starting a thread where MMMers who have reduced their work hours from FT, but haven't quite managed to FIRE yet can gather and chat.
FIRE related definitions are arbitrary, but they provide a framework to base discussion off of so here are mine:
- Working = greater than 75% FT hours
- Downshifted = 25% - 75% FT hours
- FIREd = less than 25% FT hours
I started this thread back in 2017 then failed at downshifting so I stopped posting/following along. I figured I'd update my situation since I got to the planned end goal just by a different path than planned.
When I posted the OP I was at ~60%FT and solidly downshifted and loving it. Then my work schedule went from 3 x 8hr days to 4 x 8hr days so at ~80%FT and no longer downshifted at least by my own definitions. Then I got some easy PT remote work and was back to ~100%FT. I put away all the extra $$$ I could since I was earning a lot more than at 60%FT. I hit FI in Jan 2020 and will be done 4 x 8hrs contract end of May this year. I'll keep some easy PT work from home consulting work that'll be 25%FT or less so I'll be FIRE...again by my own definition.
On one hand I missed the downshifted lifestyle I would have had between 2017 and now. OTOH I am happy to have turbo charged my savings and hit FIRE sooner. The key for me is that I don't hate the work I do. I don't love it either, but it's easy and relatively stress free. Since my GF is going to work another ~6 years to get her pension downshifting longer wouldn't have been bad since my FIRE is somewhat restricted by my GF's continued working. So really I feel like both paths were excellent options for me and it was a wash when evaluating between them.
If my work had sucked I would have stuck out the downshift. My guess is the downshifted me would have caught up with the 100%FT me in ~3 years with average market returns. So the extra work paid off, but the difference isn't huge and I would have had a lot more free time at a 60%FT downshift.
Anyways I thought I should follow up my original post with my data. Congrats to everyone rocking the downshift. Enjoy your extra free time. :-)
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I downshifted back in July from a 40hrs/week contract gig + some side gig hours to a 3 x 8hrs/day Mon-Wed contract gig. With 4 months of part time work under my belt I am noticing I don't fit in well to the discussions FT workers are having nor do I resemble the lucky bastards who are FIRE. Downshifting seems to have its own unique set of benefits and challenges. So I figured it was worth starting a thread where MMMers who have reduced their work hours from FT, but haven't quite managed to FIRE yet can gather and chat.
FIRE related definitions are arbitrary, but they provide a framework to base discussion off of so here are mine:
- Working = greater than 75% FT hours
- Downshifted = 25% - 75% FT hours
- FIREd = less than 25% FT hours
I started this thread back in 2017 then failed at downshifting so I stopped posting/following along. I figured I'd update my situation since I got to the planned end goal just by a different path than planned.
When I posted the OP I was at ~60%FT and solidly downshifted and loving it. Then my work schedule went from 3 x 8hr days to 4 x 8hr days so at ~80%FT and no longer downshifted at least by my own definitions. Then I got some easy PT remote work and was back to ~100%FT. I put away all the extra $$$ I could since I was earning a lot more than at 60%FT. I hit FI in Jan 2020 and will be done 4 x 8hrs contract end of May this year. I'll keep some easy PT work from home consulting work that'll be 25%FT or less so I'll be FIRE...again by my own definition.
On one hand I missed the downshifted lifestyle I would have had between 2017 and now. OTOH I am happy to have turbo charged my savings and hit FIRE sooner. The key for me is that I don't hate the work I do. I don't love it either, but it's easy and relatively stress free. Since my GF is going to work another ~6 years to get her pension downshifting longer wouldn't have been bad since my FIRE is somewhat restricted by my GF's continued working. So really I feel like both paths were excellent options for me and it was a wash when evaluating between them.
If my work had sucked I would have stuck out the downshift. My guess is the downshifted me would have caught up with the 100%FT me in ~3 years with average market returns. So the extra work paid off, but the difference isn't huge and I would have had a lot more free time at a 60%FT downshift.
Anyways I thought I should follow up my original post with my data. Congrats to everyone rocking the downshift. Enjoy your extra free time. :-)
Thanks for being an OP who updates honestly ! Most OPs post and bail.
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Thanks for being an OP who updates honestly ! Most OPs post and bail.
Every time I saw this thread title pop up in my unread thread list I did feel pangs of failed downshifter guilt. So I didn't click on the link and come read it! ;-)
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I downshifted back in July from a 40hrs/week contract gig + some side gig hours to a 3 x 8hrs/day Mon-Wed contract gig. With 4 months of part time work under my belt I am noticing I don't fit in well to the discussions FT workers are having nor do I resemble the lucky bastards who are FIRE. Downshifting seems to have its own unique set of benefits and challenges. So I figured it was worth starting a thread where MMMers who have reduced their work hours from FT, but haven't quite managed to FIRE yet can gather and chat.
FIRE related definitions are arbitrary, but they provide a framework to base discussion off of so here are mine:
- Working = greater than 75% FT hours
- Downshifted = 25% - 75% FT hours
- FIREd = less than 25% FT hours
I started this thread back in 2017 then failed at downshifting so I stopped posting/following along. I figured I'd update my situation since I got to the planned end goal just by a different path than planned.
When I posted the OP I was at ~60%FT and solidly downshifted and loving it. Then my work schedule went from 3 x 8hr days to 4 x 8hr days so at ~80%FT and no longer downshifted at least by my own definitions. Then I got some easy PT remote work and was back to ~100%FT. I put away all the extra $$$ I could since I was earning a lot more than at 60%FT. I hit FI in Jan 2020 and will be done 4 x 8hrs contract end of May this year. I'll keep some easy PT work from home consulting work that'll be 25%FT or less so I'll be FIRE...again by my own definition.
On one hand I missed the downshifted lifestyle I would have had between 2017 and now. OTOH I am happy to have turbo charged my savings and hit FIRE sooner. The key for me is that I don't hate the work I do. I don't love it either, but it's easy and relatively stress free. Since my GF is going to work another ~6 years to get her pension downshifting longer wouldn't have been bad since my FIRE is somewhat restricted by my GF's continued working. So really I feel like both paths were excellent options for me and it was a wash when evaluating between them.
If my work had sucked I would have stuck out the downshift. My guess is the downshifted me would have caught up with the 100%FT me in ~3 years with average market returns. So the extra work paid off, but the difference isn't huge and I would have had a lot more free time at a 60%FT downshift.
Anyways I thought I should follow up my original post with my data. Congrats to everyone rocking the downshift. Enjoy your extra free time. :-)
The man, the myth, the legend returns! :D It's great to hear about your progress. I've been paying attention to this thread since you started it, as working PT seemed like an attractive scenario, and a relatively easy one to set up in my position. I've been enjoying my downshift for a few months now. Cheers!
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I tried to downshift, but hasn't quite worked out like I expected. Apparently, I'm a workaholic.
BEFORE: Worked 40ish hrs/wk as a full-time veterinarian, spent approx 5-10 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
AFTER: Work 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian, do occasional relief shifts at other veterinary clinics (avg ~5 hrs/wk), spend approximately 20-30 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
I'm definitely happier now... I'm not working any less, but I control my own schedule so I have a degree of flexibility that I didn't have before (want to go to yoga class on Friday morning? no problem!). Plus, I'm making a good bit more money than I was making previously. The relief work isn't really part of my overall master plan, but it's $650/day and I actually really enjoy the days I spend at the clinic where I'm mostly doing relief (great team, fabulous clients, fun location within walking distance of cool lunch restaurants)... so I'm not planning to give it up. I'm not ready to give up the stability of at least a PT vet job just yet and the writing is my long-term plan (just didn't expect it to take off so quickly) so that's not going anywhere.
Looks like my downshift will have to wait a while.
It's been roughly a year and a half since my last update, so here's another...
- Still working 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian.
- Relief work temporarily increased (avg. of 10 hrs/wk), but then I cut WAY back (10 hrs/month). Planning to stop completely after April.
- Freelance writing holding steady at 15-20 hrs/wk.
I'm trying to decide what's next.
The official plan is to hold steady at this level for the next 2-3 years, then relocate towards the coast. At that point, we (husband & I) will be roughly 75% of the way to FI and I plan to REALLY downshift at that point (stop the PT vet work and just write).
Recently, however, I've been much busier with our daughter. She begged for violin lessons and I significantly underestimated how much of a parental time commitment Suzuki violin lessons would involve!! Between than and some other volunteer commitments, I'm feeling kind of fried. I'd like to downshift even more on my work right now, but I don't know how. My PT job provides our health insurance, so it seems stupid to give that up until we see how the election/ACA goes. The writing is my post-relocation income plan (assuming that the ACA sticks around in some form), so it seems silly to cut back on that. I guess my best bet is to stick with the official plan, but I don't know.
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Recently, however, I've been much busier with our daughter (I significantly underestimated how much of a time commitment Suzuki violin lessons would be!) and have been feeling kind of fried. I'd like to downshift even more right now, but I don't know how. My PT job provides our health insurance, so it seems stupid to give that up right now (until we see how the election/ACA goes). The writing is my post-relocation income plan (assuming that the ACA sticks around in some form), so it seems silly to cut back on that. I guess my best bet is to stick with the official plan, but I don't know.
Are the violin lessons essential?
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Recently, however, I've been much busier with our daughter (I significantly underestimated how much of a time commitment Suzuki violin lessons would be!) and have been feeling kind of fried. I'd like to downshift even more right now, but I don't know how. My PT job provides our health insurance, so it seems stupid to give that up right now (until we see how the election/ACA goes). The writing is my post-relocation income plan (assuming that the ACA sticks around in some form), so it seems silly to cut back on that. I guess my best bet is to stick with the official plan, but I don't know.
Are the violin lessons essential?
Not at all, but she BEGGED for them for over a year before I agreed to them. Honestly, she loves playing the violin and I also play myself. I don't see myself pulling the plug on lessons. I've considered becoming less invested in daily practice, but it seems silly to pay $1000/year for lessons and then be lazy about practice at home.
The time commitment is roughly 2 hours on Tuesday (drive time plus the lesson itself) plus 30-45 minutes each night for practice. In a couple of years, she'll be able to practice independently... but she's not there yet. So honestly, it's not a HUGE time commitment. But doing that on top of my work and church commitments and family time and helping her with homework occasionally and leading her Girl Scout troop just seems like a lot right now. I'm finally understanding why people told me that kids are often MORE work as they get older, not necessarily less!!
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But doing that on top of my work and church commitments and family time and helping her with homework occasionally and leading her Girl Scout troop just seems like a lot right now.
Sounds like a lot. I think the healthy solution is not to just grit your teeth and try and survive....it's to list everything you need to do currently. Then prioritize that list from top to bottom. Then be honest with yourself and draw a line as you move down the list where stuff is too much to have a good quality of life. Whatever is below that line has to go or be significantly changed.
Nothing wrong with prioritizing violin as long as you are willing to cut back somewhere else in your life.
Just as some external feedback not once in my youth did I ever think my mom being stressed out was a good thing and it always affected me even if I didn't say anything.
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Bottom line up front: Has anyone here experienced any negative consequences at work when they switched to PT? Have you been moved to a less desirable group, or given assignments that aren’t up to your skill set? Have you been marginalized?
Background: Single income household (DW is a SAHM who homeschools) with enough of a stash already to “standard retire” at 65. If I stay FT I’m 10-12 years from FIRE.
I would love to go to PT while the kids are young and to up my volunteering, as well as take a larger portion of taking care of the several elderly family members nearby. I feel like 32 hrs/wk would be a good start- every Friday off. I am part of a really good group at work; we all get along great and they are really good about flexing schedules around to help with personal issues (it’s “travel season” and two other people volunteered to cover down on 3 weeks of travel so I could spend time with DW during some semi-major surgery and recovery). Not only that, I actually enjoy the work- I just want don’t want to dedicate ~40% of my awake life to it right now. I would happily still go FT and take my turn doing traveling season.
DW is concerned that going PT would essentially marginalize me at work. The concern is not for “career progression” as I’m happy being a nuts and bolts engineer, but more in the sense of leave requests being denied (why would they give me more time off?), less important work being assigned which would lead to bad/not-good annual reviews, etc.
She thinks every other Friday (72 hrs/wk) might be acceptable. I feel that this just wouldn’t be worth the pay cut. I would rather do, as many here do, an alternate schedule where you work 9 hrs/day and then take every other Friday off.
Maybe I’m just being rosy, but I don’t see any of the bad things happening. I would talk with my supervisor and team lead beforehand and get their input/feedback, and as mentioned above I would be willing to still pull my fair share of traveling and crunch time duties.
What do y’all think?
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Bottom line up front: Has anyone here experienced any negative consequences at work when they switched to PT? Have you been moved to a less desirable group, or given assignments that aren’t up to your skill set? Have you been marginalized?
Background: Single income household (DW is a SAHM who homeschools) with enough of a stash already to “standard retire” at 65. If I stay FT I’m 10-12 years from FIRE.
I would love to go to PT while the kids are young and to up my volunteering, as well as take a larger portion of taking care of the several elderly family members nearby. I feel like 32 hrs/wk would be a good start- every Friday off. I am part of a really good group at work; we all get along great and they are really good about flexing schedules around to help with personal issues (it’s “travel season” and two other people volunteered to cover down on 3 weeks of travel so I could spend time with DW during some semi-major surgery and recovery). Not only that, I actually enjoy the work- I just want don’t want to dedicate ~40% of my awake life to it right now. I would happily still go FT and take my turn doing traveling season.
DW is concerned that going PT would essentially marginalize me at work. The concern is not for “career progression” as I’m happy being a nuts and bolts engineer, but more in the sense of leave requests being denied (why would they give me more time off?), less important work being assigned which would lead to bad/not-good annual reviews, etc.
She thinks every other Friday (72 hrs/wk) might be acceptable. I feel that this just wouldn’t be worth the pay cut. I would rather do, as many here do, an alternate schedule where you work 9 hrs/day and then take every other Friday off.
Maybe I’m just being rosy, but I don’t see any of the bad things happening. I would talk with my supervisor and team lead beforehand and get their input/feedback, and as mentioned above I would be willing to still pull my fair share of traveling and crunch time duties.
What do y’all think?
Your wife's concerns seem kind of arbitrary. Why would every second Friday be okay, but not every Friday??
Are there possible consequences...sure, I guess, but most of those would come down to your employer not valuing you very much, which sounds like a bigger issue.
Truthfully, I'm not sure an employer would actually give you that much thought as long as you did your job well and they like you.
The biggest risk of dropping to part time is exactly that, your employer not giving it much thought and dumping as much work on you as they always do because they forget that they aren't supposed to expect as much from you.
If you are valued at your job and good with setting and maintaining boundaries, then you will be fine.
If you aren't valued at your job and not good with boundaries, then you have bigger fish to fry.
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PTF. Looking for inspiration.
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I did not experience anything I perceived to be a negative experience going much more part-time than one day a week off. That being said, I was well regarded and valued in my workplace, and I made sure that I stayed in the loop. There were naturally projects/jobs I couldn’t take on since they needed someone available every day - but I was aware of this and didn’t see this as a negative consequence.
If you have a job where you might get good bonuses I’d discuss with your supervisor what effect your plans might have on things like this, so you can gauge the full financial trade off.
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Your wife's concerns seem kind of arbitrary. Why would every second Friday be okay, but not every Friday??
I mean, it is kind of arbitrary. She feels that if I were to drop every Friday I would be perceived as "not pulling my weight", whereas thanks to the alternate work schedule some people already do, every other Friday would not really be noticed. Most people would just assume I was doing the alternate schedule. I, somewhat arbitrarily, feel that I wouldn't be perceived that way unless I went to 24 hrs/wk or so.
If you are valued at your job and good with setting and maintaining boundaries, then you will be fine.
If you aren't valued at your job and not good with boundaries, then you have bigger fish to fry.
I feel like I'm valued. I've got no problems with boundaries- those have already been set for evening/weekends/vacation.
If you have a job where you might get good bonuses I’d discuss with your supervisor what effect your plans might have on things like this, so you can gauge the full financial trade off.
Minimal bonuses. I am slightly worried as to how my supervisor will adjust the annual review, but that's just a matter of communication and clear expectation setting. He is, at the end of the day, a good guy who cares.
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Your wife's concerns seem kind of arbitrary. Why would every second Friday be okay, but not every Friday??
I mean, it is kind of arbitrary. She feels that if I were to drop every Friday I would be perceived as "not pulling my weight", whereas thanks to the alternate work schedule some people already do, every other Friday would not really be noticed. Most people would just assume I was doing the alternate schedule. I, somewhat arbitrarily, feel that I wouldn't be perceived that way unless I went to 24 hrs/wk or so.
If you are valued at your job and good with setting and maintaining boundaries, then you will be fine.
If you aren't valued at your job and not good with boundaries, then you have bigger fish to fry.
I feel like I'm valued. I've got no problems with boundaries- those have already been set for evening/weekends/vacation.
If you have a job where you might get good bonuses I’d discuss with your supervisor what effect your plans might have on things like this, so you can gauge the full financial trade off.
Minimal bonuses. I am slightly worried as to how my supervisor will adjust the annual review, but that's just a matter of communication and clear expectation setting. He is, at the end of the day, a good guy who cares.
I've personally found that blending in and not making waves professionally puts you at a much higher risk of being devalued and taken for granted compared to demanding what you want and making a case for why your value warrants it.
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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I figured why start a new one when I've seen recent posts from a lot of names here and figured while not many, there are some mighty names here I respect and wanted to say thanks. I will probably be asking to go to part time in the fall, 5x6 hour days for kid reasons, and while I'd love to do 4x6 I doubt a) it'd be approved and b) our income situation is just a bit precarious right now with DW launching a solo biz and potentially never going back to her employer where she's been furloughed since Covid hit.
I probably fall into the category of nervous/scared and not relying on the math as while we're at 50-65% of FI numbers we still have $650k+ invested and dropping to 3/4 time will only decrease savings rate from ~50% to ~25%, if DW's business stalls and her employer does not call her back to work...
In the mean time, I have a few items I'd like to figure out. Maybe I'll start a journal.
Anyway, thanks all for good info here. Wish me luck as I'm realizing my timeline of "fall" happens to be in approximately less than 3 months. Eeeeeeeek.
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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I figured why start a new one when I've seen recent posts from a lot of names here and figured while not many, there are some mighty names here I respect and wanted to say thanks. I will probably be asking to go to part time in the fall, 5x6 hour days for kid reasons, and while I'd love to do 4x6 I doubt a) it'd be approved and b) our income situation is just a bit precarious right now with DW launching a solo biz and potentially never going back to her employer where she's been furloughed since Covid hit.
I probably fall into the category of nervous/scared and not relying on the math as while we're at 50-65% of FI numbers we still have $650k+ invested and dropping to 3/4 time will only decrease savings rate from ~50% to ~25%, if DW's business stalls and her employer does not call her back to work...
In the mean time, I have a few items I'd like to figure out. Maybe I'll start a journal.
Anyway, thanks all for good info here. Wish me luck as I'm realizing my timeline of "fall" happens to be in approximately less than 3 months. Eeeeeeeek.
Congrats I went to 4 9s a few years ago and its the best thing I've done. About to test retirement with FMLA for the next 12 weeks before I finally quit in Jan 22.
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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I figured why start a new one when I've seen recent posts from a lot of names here and figured while not many, there are some mighty names here I respect and wanted to say thanks. I will probably be asking to go to part time in the fall, 5x6 hour days for kid reasons, and while I'd love to do 4x6 I doubt a) it'd be approved and b) our income situation is just a bit precarious right now with DW launching a solo biz and potentially never going back to her employer where she's been furloughed since Covid hit.
I probably fall into the category of nervous/scared and not relying on the math as while we're at 50-65% of FI numbers we still have $650k+ invested and dropping to 3/4 time will only decrease savings rate from ~50% to ~25%, if DW's business stalls and her employer does not call her back to work...
In the mean time, I have a few items I'd like to figure out. Maybe I'll start a journal.
Anyway, thanks all for good info here. Wish me luck as I'm realizing my timeline of "fall" happens to be in approximately less than 3 months. Eeeeeeeek.
Congrats I went to 4 9s a few years ago and its the best thing I've done. About to test retirement with FMLA for the next 12 weeks before I finally quit in Jan 22.
Some of your posts and journal are some of the reassurance that I needed to see to trust the numbers, so thank you.
I have been toying around with the idea of part time for 6+ months and last night I finally mentally decided to do it typing up the fall timeline in that post. That's what made it real . I had the weirdest mental emotional tossing turning lack of sleep night where all the numbers were wrong right etc, despite having the data to support. Waking up, sort of, this morning all I know is I want to do this, so I'll ask and see what shakes out.
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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I figured why start a new one when I've seen recent posts from a lot of names here and figured while not many, there are some mighty names here I respect and wanted to say thanks. I will probably be asking to go to part time in the fall, 5x6 hour days for kid reasons, and while I'd love to do 4x6 I doubt a) it'd be approved and b) our income situation is just a bit precarious right now with DW launching a solo biz and potentially never going back to her employer where she's been furloughed since Covid hit.
I probably fall into the category of nervous/scared and not relying on the math as while we're at 50-65% of FI numbers we still have $650k+ invested and dropping to 3/4 time will only decrease savings rate from ~50% to ~25%, if DW's business stalls and her employer does not call her back to work...
In the mean time, I have a few items I'd like to figure out. Maybe I'll start a journal.
Anyway, thanks all for good info here. Wish me luck as I'm realizing my timeline of "fall" happens to be in approximately less than 3 months. Eeeeeeeek.
Don't apologize. This is one of my favorite threads lol. It seems this just fits a smaller niche of the FIRE universe. Looks like you're in a pretty good spot financially to be entertaining this. Good luck!
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Don't apologize. This is one of my favorite threads lol. It seems this just fits a smaller niche of the FIRE universe. Looks like you're in a pretty good spot financially to be entertaining this. Good luck!
I hope I'm in a pretty good spot. I've thrown the numbers around so many times on paper and also on the forum without much of a perceived red flag. The only thing I can come up with is that it just delays our FI timing by ~3 years, instead of 4-7 years from now to 7-10 years from now assuming the investments do the heavy lifting. If that buys me a little more "life time" why not?
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Hello All! I'm planning to downshift as well...currently I'm working 4-day weeks and using up copious amounts of annual leave to take every Friday off. That should get me through the end of 2021.
For next year, I'm hoping to convince my supervisor that I should permanently work 4-day weeks (using sick leave). Having never really used sick leave, it has just been piling up.
Some day, I yearn for the 3-day work week. I actually like the structure of working, and as a natural introvert, working keeps me from going full-time hermit.
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Don't apologize. This is one of my favorite threads lol. It seems this just fits a smaller niche of the FIRE universe. Looks like you're in a pretty good spot financially to be entertaining this. Good luck!
I hope I'm in a pretty good spot. I've thrown the numbers around so many times on paper and also on the forum without much of a perceived red flag. The only thing I can come up with is that it just delays our FI timing by ~3 years, instead of 4-7 years from now to 7-10 years from now assuming the investments do the heavy lifting. If that buys me a little more "life time" why not?
definitely buys more lifetime and also may not add anytime to your FIRE date. I've done 2 major lifestyle choices in my time since finding MMM. 1 a larger lake front home and 2 downshifting - both should have added 1-2 years each to my FI timeline but somehow, even though our budget grew we still hit FI 1 full year ahead of my original plan when we found this in 2014. and by grew i mean we added like 40% to our FI number and still will hit it by year end.
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Don't apologize. This is one of my favorite threads lol. It seems this just fits a smaller niche of the FIRE universe. Looks like you're in a pretty good spot financially to be entertaining this. Good luck!
I hope I'm in a pretty good spot. I've thrown the numbers around so many times on paper and also on the forum without much of a perceived red flag. The only thing I can come up with is that it just delays our FI timing by ~3 years, instead of 4-7 years from now to 7-10 years from now assuming the investments do the heavy lifting. If that buys me a little more "life time" why not?
I saw your case study post. Looks good. Plus it sounds like you guys have flexibility built in if your needs change, particularly if her business develops. I assume you like your job well enough, and you have no concerns about job/career security over the increased amount of time you may need to be involved with it?
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Hello All! I'm planning to downshift as well...currently I'm working 4-day weeks and using up copious amounts of annual leave to take every Friday off. That should get me through the end of 2021.
For next year, I'm hoping to convince my supervisor that I should permanently work 4-day weeks (using sick leave). Having never really used sick leave, it has just been piling up.
Some day, I yearn for the 3-day work week. I actually like the structure of working, and as a natural introvert, working keeps me from going full-time hermit.
Nice. I have a coworker who works 4 days...he simply will not go back to 5 days a week he loves it so much. I'm thinking I might start using some pto in the back half of the year to take off Wed. I work every other week, but it's a 5 day week. Putting a break in the middle would be pretty sweet.
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Hello All! I'm planning to downshift as well...currently I'm working 4-day weeks and using up copious amounts of annual leave to take every Friday off. That should get me through the end of 2021.
For next year, I'm hoping to convince my supervisor that I should permanently work 4-day weeks (using sick leave). Having never really used sick leave, it has just been piling up.
Some day, I yearn for the 3-day work week. I actually like the structure of working, and as a natural introvert, working keeps me from going full-time hermit.
Nice. I have a coworker who works 4 days...he simply will not go back to 5 days a week he loves it so much. I'm thinking I might start using some pto in the back half of the year to take off Wed. I work every other week, but it's a 5 day week. Putting a break in the middle would be pretty sweet.
people ask me all the time if i'm going back to 5 days. and then ask if my wife makes a lot of money or how can i possibly afford to take a 10% pay cut. umm guys we live in one of the lowest cost of living areas and make well into the mid 100s in salary if you can take a 10% pay cut you should re examine your priorities.
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Hello All! I'm planning to downshift as well...currently I'm working 4-day weeks and using up copious amounts of annual leave to take every Friday off. That should get me through the end of 2021.
For next year, I'm hoping to convince my supervisor that I should permanently work 4-day weeks (using sick leave). Having never really used sick leave, it has just been piling up.
Some day, I yearn for the 3-day work week. I actually like the structure of working, and as a natural introvert, working keeps me from going full-time hermit.
Nice. I have a coworker who works 4 days...he simply will not go back to 5 days a week he loves it so much. I'm thinking I might start using some pto in the back half of the year to take off Wed. I work every other week, but it's a 5 day week. Putting a break in the middle would be pretty sweet.
Having a 3-day weekend really makes a huge difference after so many years of 5-day work weeks. Prior to COVID, I had already decided that 5-day work weeks were unnecessary. So I started taking unpaid leave in order to "buy" more leave days and take more time off. Yes, my salary went down, but my time is more important.
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definitely buys more lifetime and also may not add anytime to your FIRE date. I've done 2 major lifestyle choices in my time since finding MMM. 1 a larger lake front home and 2 downshifting - both should have added 1-2 years each to my FI timeline but somehow, even though our budget grew we still hit FI 1 full year ahead of my original plan when we found this in 2014. and by grew i mean we added like 40% to our FI number and still will hit it by year end.
Since 2013 or whenever it was I found this stuff, it's mostly been maximizing savings for future flexibility for us. I'm not going to assume the market will keep its pace and if it ends up being longer to that time well at least we've set ourselves up for it. A few extra years without the equivalent of maybe $20-$30k feels kind of a drop in the bucket at this point compared what I would expect compound interest to do on the heavy lifting side for us. If for some reason it turns out we needed it, oh well. This is a mental/life balance decision and not necessarily a financial one.
I saw your case study post. Looks good. Plus it sounds like you guys have flexibility built in if your needs change, particularly if her business develops. I assume you like your job well enough, and you have no concerns about job/career security over the increased amount of time you may need to be involved with it?
Thanks for taking a look at that post in the Case Studies section. I like it well enough to keep at it a while longer. It's a federal government / civil service position so really the last thing on my mind is job security. I don't have the aspirations to be some C-level government executive, but maybe doing this would likely close that door informally? And yeah, I think the flexibility is there whether DW's business goes back or I need to go to Full Time. First though I need to see if it's even possible. If it comes back a no, well, then we'll figure it out!
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I'm on my third week of half-time (2.5 days/week) now and so far it's been glorious. Still in the decompression phase, obviously.
I have noted, however, that it's going to require a bit of a difference in work tasking. My current team is working towards a short-term deadline and there's a lot of week-by-week and even day-by-day reshuffling of prioritites as things come up, and that's just not going to fit well with being out half the week since that means either my tasks are dumped until next week, or someone needs to pick them up. To remain effective, I'm going to need to work on longer lead-time tasks. We'll see what happens.
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people ask me all the time if i'm going back to 5 days. and then ask if my wife makes a lot of money or how can i possibly afford to take a 10% pay cut. umm guys we live in one of the lowest cost of living areas and make well into the mid 100s in salary if you can take a 10% pay cut you should re examine your priorities.
The difference in perspective is amazing, but kinda sad. Last month I had a coworker tell me that, given my schedule, they just assumed I had a rich relative pass away and leave me a fortune. Ummm...no. Good to see you 'round these parts again, Boarder.
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I saw your case study post. Looks good. Plus it sounds like you guys have flexibility built in if your needs change, particularly if her business develops. I assume you like your job well enough, and you have no concerns about job/career security over the increased amount of time you may need to be involved with it?
Thanks for taking a look at that post in the Case Studies section. I like it well enough to keep at it a while longer. It's a federal government / civil service position so really the last thing on my mind is job security. I don't have the aspirations to be some C-level government executive, but maybe doing this would likely close that door informally? And yeah, I think the flexibility is there whether DW's business goes back or I need to go to Full Time. First though I need to see if it's even possible. If it comes back a no, well, then we'll figure it out!
Let us know what they say!
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I went to four nights five lunches a few years ago, and now am thinking about dropping another night shift soon, which would bring us to me working about 24 hours a week and my wife 6 hours a week. We did reach millionaire status recently so it makes since to start downshifting and see how we like it. Only working three nights a week means I'm off a majority of nights during the week, and as lunch shifts are only a couple of hours I don't really mind them, its the evenings off that are far more important to me in terms of quality of life.
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I saw your case study post. Looks good. Plus it sounds like you guys have flexibility built in if your needs change, particularly if her business develops. I assume you like your job well enough, and you have no concerns about job/career security over the increased amount of time you may need to be involved with it?
Thanks for taking a look at that post in the Case Studies section. I like it well enough to keep at it a while longer. It's a federal government / civil service position so really the last thing on my mind is job security. I don't have the aspirations to be some C-level government executive, but maybe doing this would likely close that door informally? And yeah, I think the flexibility is there whether DW's business goes back or I need to go to Full Time. First though I need to see if it's even possible. If it comes back a no, well, then we'll figure it out!
Let us know what they say!
I made the request. Now we wait and see what happens! I was pretty assertive in the request, feeling confident in our ability to make it work and in my want to do it, so I'm hoping it was the right tactic.
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I saw your case study post. Looks good. Plus it sounds like you guys have flexibility built in if your needs change, particularly if her business develops. I assume you like your job well enough, and you have no concerns about job/career security over the increased amount of time you may need to be involved with it?
Thanks for taking a look at that post in the Case Studies section. I like it well enough to keep at it a while longer. It's a federal government / civil service position so really the last thing on my mind is job security. I don't have the aspirations to be some C-level government executive, but maybe doing this would likely close that door informally? And yeah, I think the flexibility is there whether DW's business goes back or I need to go to Full Time. First though I need to see if it's even possible. If it comes back a no, well, then we'll figure it out!
Let us know what they say!
I made the request. Now we wait and see what happens! I was pretty assertive in the request, feeling confident in our ability to make it work and in my want to do it, so I'm hoping it was the right tactic.
Awesome! Best lifestyle choice I made after starting the path to fire
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I saw your case study post. Looks good. Plus it sounds like you guys have flexibility built in if your needs change, particularly if her business develops. I assume you like your job well enough, and you have no concerns about job/career security over the increased amount of time you may need to be involved with it?
Thanks for taking a look at that post in the Case Studies section. I like it well enough to keep at it a while longer. It's a federal government / civil service position so really the last thing on my mind is job security. I don't have the aspirations to be some C-level government executive, but maybe doing this would likely close that door informally? And yeah, I think the flexibility is there whether DW's business goes back or I need to go to Full Time. First though I need to see if it's even possible. If it comes back a no, well, then we'll figure it out!
Let us know what they say!
I made the request. Now we wait and see what happens! I was pretty assertive in the request, feeling confident in our ability to make it work and in my want to do it, so I'm hoping it was the right tactic.
Awesome! Best lifestyle choice I made after starting the path to fire
I received support today for doing 12 months at 0.75 FTE. They wanted to put an end date on it to help justify keeping the position fully funded in the event I wanted to go back either during or after the 12 month stint. Kind of the best case scenario I think. And while they were reluctant to approve it, they understood and were supportive given my circumstances. They also wanted to make sure I still had the chance to get my full pension in 27 years if I wanted to go back Full Time. They don't know my financials, so I took it as kindness/consideration and said thanks a bunch.
I still need to work out a few of the details on which projects to ramp down, but that should be fairly straightforward, as well as get the formal OK but the support is there.
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I received support today for doing 12 months at 0.75 FTE.
Woohoo congrats!
I went to 32-hrs, Fridays off, in Q4 2019 and it's amazing. The work week doesn't really feel any shorter (because it's only 20% shorter), but the 3-day weekends are significant (because they're 50% longer), which everyone knows when they get their few 3-day weekends a year.
It's been tricky because shortly after taking that 20% paycut, covid hit, causing our company to freeze bonuses, which was another 20% hit. That was still ok, but then we decided to take advantage of low interest rates and working from home to move and buy our first house. Which is still ok, but we also bought a house we want to do a lot to, which costs $$$, so I'm starting to feel the lack of that 20% (which is really only 10% after taxes). Sometimes I think about going back to 5 days, but maaaaan I can't wrap my head around only having 2-day weekends now.
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I received support today for doing 12 months at 0.75 FTE.
Woohoo congrats!
I went to 32-hrs, Fridays off, in Q4 2019 and it's amazing. The work week doesn't really feel any shorter (because it's only 20% shorter), but the 3-day weekends are significant (because they're 50% longer), which everyone knows when they get their few 3-day weekends a year.
It's been tricky because shortly after taking that 20% paycut, covid hit, causing our company to freeze bonuses, which was another 20% hit. That was still ok, but then we decided to take advantage of low interest rates and working from home to move and buy our first house. Which is still ok, but we also bought a house we want to do a lot to, which costs $$$, so I'm starting to feel the lack of that 20% (which is really only 10% after taxes). Sometimes I think about going back to 5 days, but maaaaan I can't wrap my head around only having 2-day weekends now.
Can you not work 4-9s and get 10% back but keep your weekend
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I received support today for doing 12 months at 0.75 FTE.
Woohoo congrats!
I went to 32-hrs, Fridays off, in Q4 2019 and it's amazing. The work week doesn't really feel any shorter (because it's only 20% shorter), but the 3-day weekends are significant (because they're 50% longer), which everyone knows when they get their few 3-day weekends a year.
It's been tricky because shortly after taking that 20% paycut, covid hit, causing our company to freeze bonuses, which was another 20% hit. That was still ok, but then we decided to take advantage of low interest rates and working from home to move and buy our first house. Which is still ok, but we also bought a house we want to do a lot to, which costs $$$, so I'm starting to feel the lack of that 20% (which is really only 10% after taxes). Sometimes I think about going back to 5 days, but maaaaan I can't wrap my head around only having 2-day weekends now.
Can you not work 4-9s and get 10% back but keep your weekend
It'd be 4 10's, but yea I considered it instead of 32-hours originally. But I really like getting out at 4pm. The idea of 6pm instead just seems... significant. Now that we're working from home I'd care less and would do 4 10's, because the work day is all over the place anyway, but we don't know yet if it's going to stay work from home.
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I received support today for doing 12 months at 0.75 FTE. They wanted to put an end date on it to help justify keeping the position fully funded in the event I wanted to go back either during or after the 12 month stint. Kind of the best case scenario I think. And while they were reluctant to approve it, they understood and were supportive given my circumstances. They also wanted to make sure I still had the chance to get my full pension in 27 years if I wanted to go back Full Time. They don't know my financials, so I took it as kindness/consideration and said thanks a bunch.
I still need to work out a few of the details on which projects to ramp down, but that should be fairly straightforward, as well as get the formal OK but the support is there.
Sweet!
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We are definitely downshifting.
Back in 2019, my wife just graduated and got a nice job right out of college(48k). We were doing the happy dance as we were a DINK couple. Me $120k+ her 48k and we were shooting for $2 millions before retiring.
Eight months in, she hated her job and I was going to let her quit but then the pandemic hit and I got furloughed. She stayed on. Then end of year came and I officially got laid off. She was so sick of her job that even though I don't have one, she was going to quit anyway. We were shooting for March 2021 and we were going to take at least a yr off to travel.
As she put in her notice in March, her boss begged her to stay until July 31. She agreed. Our travel can wait.
Then a funny thing happened and I got my job back in April. Since we both have jobs now, I put in a refinance with cash out(going from 15yr to 30yr) before she quit.
If the refinance come though, I will only need to put in about 16-20 hrs to take care of expenses and let our stash grow(it's around 1.3 million). If the refinance do not come through I'd probably need to put in around 24 hrs each week. Still downshifting though. My math tells me that I can earn around $50k a year with my wife not working and still get significant ACA subsidies. $50k-$12k(IRA)= $38k MAGI for a couple.
One thing the pandemic taught me was how much I enjoy my free time. Can never go back to working FT again.
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We are definitely downshifting.
Back in 2019, my wife just graduated and got a nice job right out of college(48k). We were doing the happy dance as we were a DINK couple. Me $120k+ her 48k and we were shooting for $2 millions before retiring.
Eight months in, she hated her job and I was going to let her quit but then the pandemic hit and I got furloughed. She stayed on. Then end of year came and I officially got laid off. She was so sick of her job that even though I don't have one, she was going to quit anyway. We were shooting for March 2021 and we were going to take at least a yr off to travel.
As she put in her notice in March, her boss begged her to stay until July 31. She agreed. Our travel can wait.
Then a funny thing happened and I got my job back in April. Since we both have jobs now, I put in a refinance with cash out(going from 15yr to 30yr) before she quit.
If the refinance come though, I will only need to put in about 16-20 hrs to take care of expenses and let our stash grow(it's around 1.3 million). If the refinance do not come through I'd probably need to put in around 24 hrs each week. Still downshifting though. My math tells me that I can earn around $50k a year with my wife not working and still get significant ACA subsidies. $50k-$12k(IRA)= $38k MAGI for a couple.
One thing the pandemic taught me was how much I enjoy my free time. Can never go back to working FT again.
Congrats. But why do you need 2 million if you're only spending in the mid 30s annually? I mean you're fi based on what your income needs to be
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I tried to downshift, but hasn't quite worked out like I expected. Apparently, I'm a workaholic.
BEFORE: Worked 40ish hrs/wk as a full-time veterinarian, spent approx 5-10 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
AFTER: Work 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian, do occasional relief shifts at other veterinary clinics (avg ~5 hrs/wk), spend approximately 20-30 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
I'm definitely happier now... I'm not working any less, but I control my own schedule so I have a degree of flexibility that I didn't have before (want to go to yoga class on Friday morning? no problem!). Plus, I'm making a good bit more money than I was making previously. The relief work isn't really part of my overall master plan, but it's $650/day and I actually really enjoy the days I spend at the clinic where I'm mostly doing relief (great team, fabulous clients, fun location within walking distance of cool lunch restaurants)... so I'm not planning to give it up. I'm not ready to give up the stability of at least a PT vet job just yet and the writing is my long-term plan (just didn't expect it to take off so quickly) so that's not going anywhere.
Looks like my downshift will have to wait a while.
It's been roughly a year and a half since my last update, so here's another...
- Still working 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian.
- Relief work temporarily increased (avg. of 10 hrs/wk), but then I cut WAY back (10 hrs/month). Planning to stop completely after April.
- Freelance writing holding steady at 15-20 hrs/wk.
I'm trying to decide what's next.
The official plan is to hold steady at this level for the next 2-3 years, then relocate towards the coast. At that point, we (husband & I) will be roughly 75% of the way to FI and I plan to REALLY downshift at that point (stop the PT vet work and just write).
Recently, however, I've been much busier with our daughter. She begged for violin lessons and I significantly underestimated how much of a parental time commitment Suzuki violin lessons would involve!! Between than and some other volunteer commitments, I'm feeling kind of fried. I'd like to downshift even more on my work right now, but I don't know how. My PT job provides our health insurance, so it seems stupid to give that up until we see how the election/ACA goes. The writing is my post-relocation income plan (assuming that the ACA sticks around in some form), so it seems silly to cut back on that. I guess my best bet is to stick with the official plan, but I don't know.
Just reread my previous posts and decided that I might as well share another update.
First of all, WE MOVED TOWARDS THE COAST!! YAY!! My husband got a new FT job, which he enjoys, and I'm loving the increased access to outdoor recreation.
I ended up completely stepping away from veterinary practice, both as an employee and relief vet, during COVID. I'm now working solely on freelance writing and averaging ~30 hrs/wk (some weeks more, some weeks less). Even that was bit much while I was homeschooling our daughter through COVID, but it's more reasonable now that she's in summer camps (9 am until 1-4 pm, depending on the week). I think it will be even easier when school starts in the fall (she'll be in school/aftercare from 8-5ish).
I'd like to find time for some specific volunteer work that I'm hoping to get involved in, but I don't feel like I can make it work right now. Maybe it will be easier once school starts. If not, I'll need to decide whether to decrease my workload further or just keep plugging away until we're closer to full FIRE (2028).
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We are definitely downshifting.
Back in 2019, my wife just graduated and got a nice job right out of college(48k). We were doing the happy dance as we were a DINK couple. Me $120k+ her 48k and we were shooting for $2 millions before retiring.
Eight months in, she hated her job and I was going to let her quit but then the pandemic hit and I got furloughed. She stayed on. Then end of year came and I officially got laid off. She was so sick of her job that even though I don't have one, she was going to quit anyway. We were shooting for March 2021 and we were going to take at least a yr off to travel.
As she put in her notice in March, her boss begged her to stay until July 31. She agreed. Our travel can wait.
Then a funny thing happened and I got my job back in April. Since we both have jobs now, I put in a refinance with cash out(going from 15yr to 30yr) before she quit.
If the refinance come though, I will only need to put in about 16-20 hrs to take care of expenses and let our stash grow(it's around 1.3 million). If the refinance do not come through I'd probably need to put in around 24 hrs each week. Still downshifting though. My math tells me that I can earn around $50k a year with my wife not working and still get significant ACA subsidies. $50k-$12k(IRA)= $38k MAGI for a couple.
One thing the pandemic taught me was how much I enjoy my free time. Can never go back to working FT again.
Congrats. But why do you need 2 million if you're only spending in the mid 30s annually? I mean you're fi based on what your income needs to be
We're NOT going for $2 millions. Originally when we were DINK in 2019, we were thinking of FatFIRE at $2 millions. The pandemic changed that.
I will just work to cover expenses and let our $1.3 stash grow. My job is very flexible. It does not not hinder our traveling plans at all.
If we can refinance, our year expenses will be roughly $40k-$45k. If not ~$50k. While $1.3 million should be enough to FIRE, my job is too easy and flexible to give up. I'm 49 and wife is 39. She can say she retired before 40 :)
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I tried to downshift, but hasn't quite worked out like I expected. Apparently, I'm a workaholic.
BEFORE: Worked 40ish hrs/wk as a full-time veterinarian, spent approx 5-10 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
AFTER: Work 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian, do occasional relief shifts at other veterinary clinics (avg ~5 hrs/wk), spend approximately 20-30 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
I'm definitely happier now... I'm not working any less, but I control my own schedule so I have a degree of flexibility that I didn't have before (want to go to yoga class on Friday morning? no problem!). Plus, I'm making a good bit more money than I was making previously. The relief work isn't really part of my overall master plan, but it's $650/day and I actually really enjoy the days I spend at the clinic where I'm mostly doing relief (great team, fabulous clients, fun location within walking distance of cool lunch restaurants)... so I'm not planning to give it up. I'm not ready to give up the stability of at least a PT vet job just yet and the writing is my long-term plan (just didn't expect it to take off so quickly) so that's not going anywhere.
Looks like my downshift will have to wait a while.
It's been roughly a year and a half since my last update, so here's another...
- Still working 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian.
- Relief work temporarily increased (avg. of 10 hrs/wk), but then I cut WAY back (10 hrs/month). Planning to stop completely after April.
- Freelance writing holding steady at 15-20 hrs/wk.
I'm trying to decide what's next.
The official plan is to hold steady at this level for the next 2-3 years, then relocate towards the coast. At that point, we (husband & I) will be roughly 75% of the way to FI and I plan to REALLY downshift at that point (stop the PT vet work and just write).
Recently, however, I've been much busier with our daughter. She begged for violin lessons and I significantly underestimated how much of a parental time commitment Suzuki violin lessons would involve!! Between than and some other volunteer commitments, I'm feeling kind of fried. I'd like to downshift even more on my work right now, but I don't know how. My PT job provides our health insurance, so it seems stupid to give that up until we see how the election/ACA goes. The writing is my post-relocation income plan (assuming that the ACA sticks around in some form), so it seems silly to cut back on that. I guess my best bet is to stick with the official plan, but I don't know.
Just reread my previous posts and decided that I might as well share another update.
First of all, WE MOVED TOWARDS THE COAST!! YAY!! My husband got a new FT job, which he enjoys, and I'm loving the increased access to outdoor recreation.
I ended up completely stepping away from veterinary practice, both as an employee and relief vet, during COVID. I'm now working solely on freelance writing and averaging ~30 hrs/wk (some weeks more, some weeks less). Even that was bit much while I was homeschooling our daughter through COVID, but it's more reasonable now that she's in summer camps (9 am until 1-4 pm, depending on the week). I think it will be even easier when school starts in the fall (she'll be in school/aftercare from 8-5ish).
I'd like to find time for some specific volunteer work that I'm hoping to get involved in, but I don't feel like I can make it work right now. Maybe it will be easier once school starts. If not, I'll need to decide whether to decrease my workload further or just keep plugging away until we're closer to full FIRE (2028).
Almost 3 years of updates! Nice. How long were you in vet med? Do you still enjoy the freelance writing, or has it moved more towards a flexible means to an end?
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I tried to downshift, but hasn't quite worked out like I expected. Apparently, I'm a workaholic.
BEFORE: Worked 40ish hrs/wk as a full-time veterinarian, spent approx 5-10 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
AFTER: Work 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian, do occasional relief shifts at other veterinary clinics (avg ~5 hrs/wk), spend approximately 20-30 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
I'm definitely happier now... I'm not working any less, but I control my own schedule so I have a degree of flexibility that I didn't have before (want to go to yoga class on Friday morning? no problem!). Plus, I'm making a good bit more money than I was making previously. The relief work isn't really part of my overall master plan, but it's $650/day and I actually really enjoy the days I spend at the clinic where I'm mostly doing relief (great team, fabulous clients, fun location within walking distance of cool lunch restaurants)... so I'm not planning to give it up. I'm not ready to give up the stability of at least a PT vet job just yet and the writing is my long-term plan (just didn't expect it to take off so quickly) so that's not going anywhere.
Looks like my downshift will have to wait a while.
It's been roughly a year and a half since my last update, so here's another...
- Still working 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian.
- Relief work temporarily increased (avg. of 10 hrs/wk), but then I cut WAY back (10 hrs/month). Planning to stop completely after April.
- Freelance writing holding steady at 15-20 hrs/wk.
I'm trying to decide what's next.
The official plan is to hold steady at this level for the next 2-3 years, then relocate towards the coast. At that point, we (husband & I) will be roughly 75% of the way to FI and I plan to REALLY downshift at that point (stop the PT vet work and just write).
Recently, however, I've been much busier with our daughter. She begged for violin lessons and I significantly underestimated how much of a parental time commitment Suzuki violin lessons would involve!! Between than and some other volunteer commitments, I'm feeling kind of fried. I'd like to downshift even more on my work right now, but I don't know how. My PT job provides our health insurance, so it seems stupid to give that up until we see how the election/ACA goes. The writing is my post-relocation income plan (assuming that the ACA sticks around in some form), so it seems silly to cut back on that. I guess my best bet is to stick with the official plan, but I don't know.
Just reread my previous posts and decided that I might as well share another update.
First of all, WE MOVED TOWARDS THE COAST!! YAY!! My husband got a new FT job, which he enjoys, and I'm loving the increased access to outdoor recreation.
I ended up completely stepping away from veterinary practice, both as an employee and relief vet, during COVID. I'm now working solely on freelance writing and averaging ~30 hrs/wk (some weeks more, some weeks less). Even that was bit much while I was homeschooling our daughter through COVID, but it's more reasonable now that she's in summer camps (9 am until 1-4 pm, depending on the week). I think it will be even easier when school starts in the fall (she'll be in school/aftercare from 8-5ish).
I'd like to find time for some specific volunteer work that I'm hoping to get involved in, but I don't feel like I can make it work right now. Maybe it will be easier once school starts. If not, I'll need to decide whether to decrease my workload further or just keep plugging away until we're closer to full FIRE (2028).
Almost 3 years of updates! Nice. How long were you in vet med? Do you still enjoy the freelance writing, or has it moved more towards a flexible means to an end?
I spent a total of 14 years as a practicing veterinarian, which was more than enough for me!!
I do still enjoy the writing, though my enjoyment has waned a bit now that I'm doing more of it. I can't ever see myself stepping away from it completely, but I'm looking forward to reaching a point where I can scale back to just my favorite clients and feel free to say no to anything that will involve zoom/phone calls or multiple rounds of review. LOL.
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I plan to downshift and coast starting next year. I have a cushy state job, but I've been searching for something part time and with more satisfaction. I decided to start a massage therapy program in the fall on the weekends while I'm still working and then downshift to massage 15 or so hours a week after the program is over. Husband will work for another few years as well - we're 30, no kids, with around $560k net worth. I'd much rather work part time than keep doing this full time grind.
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Thanks for this thread! I'm planning to downshift next year -- not sure exactly what it will look like. I'll probably start by asking for 75% -- either in the form of reduced hours every week or additional weeks off. I don't really know what the reception will be. If they push back, I might just look for a part-time job doing something different. I don't make a fortune ($95K CAD full-time) but it's the most I've ever made and 75% of it is more than I could make doing other part-time work, I suspect.
If push comes to shove, though, I'm increasingly interested in pursuing financial planning. The sales part of it is a non-starter for me, though, so it might be a no-go. I'm in Canada, FWIW.
Fortunately, we're pretty much at our FI number (married, 1 kid, ~$1.25M USD) so I have some flexibility. I'm waiting a year to do anything because my employer just engaged a PEO so that they can employ me in Canada (we moved from the US) and I told them I'd stay for a year (because it cost them some money upfront). At the same time, I want to get a sense of our spending up here so I don't really mind. Hopefully, they'll be receptive to 75% (and then in a year or two likely 50%). We shall see!
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Thanks for this thread! I'm planning to downshift next year -- not sure exactly what it will look like. I'll probably start by asking for 75% -- either in the form of reduced hours every week or additional weeks off. I don't really know what the reception will be. If they push back, I might just look for a part-time job doing something different. I don't make a fortune ($95K CAD full-time) but it's the most I've ever made and 75% of it is more than I could make doing other part-time work, I suspect.
If push comes to shove, though, I'm increasingly interested in pursuing financial planning. The sales part of it is a non-starter for me, though, so it might be a no-go. I'm in Canada, FWIW.
Fortunately, we're pretty much at our FI number (married, 1 kid, ~$1.25M USD) so I have some flexibility. I'm waiting a year to do anything because my employer just engaged a PEO so that they can employ me in Canada (we moved from the US) and I told them I'd stay for a year (because it cost them some money upfront). At the same time, I want to get a sense of our spending up here so I don't really mind. Hopefully, they'll be receptive to 75% (and then in a year or two likely 50%). We shall see!
my wife was told no reduced or part time work. Then when she put her 2 weeks in they were like you're welcome to come back part time whenever you want.
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Thanks for this thread! I'm planning to downshift next year -- not sure exactly what it will look like. I'll probably start by asking for 75% -- either in the form of reduced hours every week or additional weeks off. I don't really know what the reception will be. If they push back, I might just look for a part-time job doing something different. I don't make a fortune ($95K CAD full-time) but it's the most I've ever made and 75% of it is more than I could make doing other part-time work, I suspect.
If push comes to shove, though, I'm increasingly interested in pursuing financial planning. The sales part of it is a non-starter for me, though, so it might be a no-go. I'm in Canada, FWIW.
Fortunately, we're pretty much at our FI number (married, 1 kid, ~$1.25M USD) so I have some flexibility. I'm waiting a year to do anything because my employer just engaged a PEO so that they can employ me in Canada (we moved from the US) and I told them I'd stay for a year (because it cost them some money upfront). At the same time, I want to get a sense of our spending up here so I don't really mind. Hopefully, they'll be receptive to 75% (and then in a year or two likely 50%). We shall see!
my wife was told no reduced or part time work. Then when she put her 2 weeks in they were like you're welcome to come back part time whenever you want.
Ha, that's funny and a good thing to keep in mind. Thanks!
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I plan to downshift and coast starting next year. I have a cushy state job, but I've been searching for something part time and with more satisfaction. I decided to start a massage therapy program in the fall on the weekends while I'm still working and then downshift to massage 15 or so hours a week after the program is over. Husband will work for another few years as well - we're 30, no kids, with around $560k net worth. I'd much rather work part time than keep doing this full time grind.
15 hours sounds pretty sweet. Also sounds like a completely different career type than your current one. Hope it's an exciting change and everything works out! You guys are in a good position.
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my wife was told no reduced or part time work. Then when she put her 2 weeks in they were like you're welcome to come back part time whenever you want.
Siiiiiighhhhhh. Why do these things have to be difficult...
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my wife was told no reduced or part time work. Then when she put her 2 weeks in they were like you're welcome to come back part time whenever you want.
Siiiiiighhhhhh. Why do these things have to be difficult...
Because very few employees or employers understand the power of FU money, and are always surprised about it.
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Thanks for this thread! I'm planning to downshift next year -- not sure exactly what it will look like. I'll probably start by asking for 75% -- either in the form of reduced hours every week or additional weeks off. I don't really know what the reception will be. If they push back, I might just look for a part-time job doing something different. I don't make a fortune ($95K CAD full-time) but it's the most I've ever made and 75% of it is more than I could make doing other part-time work, I suspect.
If push comes to shove, though, I'm increasingly interested in pursuing financial planning. The sales part of it is a non-starter for me, though, so it might be a no-go. I'm in Canada, FWIW.
Fortunately, we're pretty much at our FI number (married, 1 kid, ~$1.25M USD) so I have some flexibility. I'm waiting a year to do anything because my employer just engaged a PEO so that they can employ me in Canada (we moved from the US) and I told them I'd stay for a year (because it cost them some money upfront). At the same time, I want to get a sense of our spending up here so I don't really mind. Hopefully, they'll be receptive to 75% (and then in a year or two likely 50%). We shall see!
Cool. You guys are killing it. I briefly thought about financial planning(as in about 30 seconds), but it totally seems like a grind like any other. And as you said, no way I'm doing sales. If friends and acquaintances ask for advice, I'll help. If they really show interest, then maybe we can meet at a local brewery and I'll accept a flight of beers as payment lol. What kind of employment are you in? Is it project based, time based, etc?
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Thanks for this thread! I'm planning to downshift next year -- not sure exactly what it will look like. I'll probably start by asking for 75% -- either in the form of reduced hours every week or additional weeks off. I don't really know what the reception will be. If they push back, I might just look for a part-time job doing something different. I don't make a fortune ($95K CAD full-time) but it's the most I've ever made and 75% of it is more than I could make doing other part-time work, I suspect.
If push comes to shove, though, I'm increasingly interested in pursuing financial planning. The sales part of it is a non-starter for me, though, so it might be a no-go. I'm in Canada, FWIW.
Fortunately, we're pretty much at our FI number (married, 1 kid, ~$1.25M USD) so I have some flexibility. I'm waiting a year to do anything because my employer just engaged a PEO so that they can employ me in Canada (we moved from the US) and I told them I'd stay for a year (because it cost them some money upfront). At the same time, I want to get a sense of our spending up here so I don't really mind. Hopefully, they'll be receptive to 75% (and then in a year or two likely 50%). We shall see!
Cool. You guys are killing it. I briefly thought about financial planning(as in about 30 seconds), but it totally seems like a grind like any other. And as you said, no way I'm doing sales. If friends and acquaintances ask for advice, I'll help. If they really show interest, then maybe we can meet at a local brewery and I'll accept a flight of beers as payment lol. What kind of employment are you in? Is it project based, time based, etc?
I'm an IT Business Analyst. Right now, it's time-based (40 hours a week) but it's flexible in the sense that I could be taken off some projects to get me in a 30 hour or 20 hour range. I'm more interested in 3 weeks on, 1 week off, though, and I'm not sure how that will work. For now, I'm cautiously optimistic. :)
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Thanks for this thread! I'm planning to downshift next year -- not sure exactly what it will look like. I'll probably start by asking for 75% -- either in the form of reduced hours every week or additional weeks off. I don't really know what the reception will be. If they push back, I might just look for a part-time job doing something different. I don't make a fortune ($95K CAD full-time) but it's the most I've ever made and 75% of it is more than I could make doing other part-time work, I suspect.
If push comes to shove, though, I'm increasingly interested in pursuing financial planning. The sales part of it is a non-starter for me, though, so it might be a no-go. I'm in Canada, FWIW.
Fortunately, we're pretty much at our FI number (married, 1 kid, ~$1.25M USD) so I have some flexibility. I'm waiting a year to do anything because my employer just engaged a PEO so that they can employ me in Canada (we moved from the US) and I told them I'd stay for a year (because it cost them some money upfront). At the same time, I want to get a sense of our spending up here so I don't really mind. Hopefully, they'll be receptive to 75% (and then in a year or two likely 50%). We shall see!
Cool. You guys are killing it. I briefly thought about financial planning(as in about 30 seconds), but it totally seems like a grind like any other. And as you said, no way I'm doing sales. If friends and acquaintances ask for advice, I'll help. If they really show interest, then maybe we can meet at a local brewery and I'll accept a flight of beers as payment lol. What kind of employment are you in? Is it project based, time based, etc?
I'm an IT Business Analyst. Right now, it's time-based (40 hours a week) but it's flexible in the sense that I could be taken off some projects to get me in a 30 hour or 20 hour range. I'm more interested in 3 weeks on, 1 week off, though, and I'm not sure how that will work. For now, I'm cautiously optimistic. :)
Good luck 🤞 . Have you thought about the pitch on how to handle the 3 weeks on 1 week off?
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Thanks for this thread! I'm planning to downshift next year -- not sure exactly what it will look like. I'll probably start by asking for 75% -- either in the form of reduced hours every week or additional weeks off. I don't really know what the reception will be. If they push back, I might just look for a part-time job doing something different. I don't make a fortune ($95K CAD full-time) but it's the most I've ever made and 75% of it is more than I could make doing other part-time work, I suspect.
If push comes to shove, though, I'm increasingly interested in pursuing financial planning. The sales part of it is a non-starter for me, though, so it might be a no-go. I'm in Canada, FWIW.
Fortunately, we're pretty much at our FI number (married, 1 kid, ~$1.25M USD) so I have some flexibility. I'm waiting a year to do anything because my employer just engaged a PEO so that they can employ me in Canada (we moved from the US) and I told them I'd stay for a year (because it cost them some money upfront). At the same time, I want to get a sense of our spending up here so I don't really mind. Hopefully, they'll be receptive to 75% (and then in a year or two likely 50%). We shall see!
Cool. You guys are killing it. I briefly thought about financial planning(as in about 30 seconds), but it totally seems like a grind like any other. And as you said, no way I'm doing sales. If friends and acquaintances ask for advice, I'll help. If they really show interest, then maybe we can meet at a local brewery and I'll accept a flight of beers as payment lol. What kind of employment are you in? Is it project based, time based, etc?
I'm an IT Business Analyst. Right now, it's time-based (40 hours a week) but it's flexible in the sense that I could be taken off some projects to get me in a 30 hour or 20 hour range. I'm more interested in 3 weeks on, 1 week off, though, and I'm not sure how that will work. For now, I'm cautiously optimistic. :)
Good luck 🤞 . Have you thought about the pitch on how to handle the 3 weeks on 1 week off?
Good question. The short answer is no. :) I'm planning to start the conversation next summer (say June) so I haven't thought a ton about the details. Any suggestions?
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Thanks for this thread! I'm planning to downshift next year -- not sure exactly what it will look like. I'll probably start by asking for 75% -- either in the form of reduced hours every week or additional weeks off. I don't really know what the reception will be. If they push back, I might just look for a part-time job doing something different. I don't make a fortune ($95K CAD full-time) but it's the most I've ever made and 75% of it is more than I could make doing other part-time work, I suspect.
If push comes to shove, though, I'm increasingly interested in pursuing financial planning. The sales part of it is a non-starter for me, though, so it might be a no-go. I'm in Canada, FWIW.
Fortunately, we're pretty much at our FI number (married, 1 kid, ~$1.25M USD) so I have some flexibility. I'm waiting a year to do anything because my employer just engaged a PEO so that they can employ me in Canada (we moved from the US) and I told them I'd stay for a year (because it cost them some money upfront). At the same time, I want to get a sense of our spending up here so I don't really mind. Hopefully, they'll be receptive to 75% (and then in a year or two likely 50%). We shall see!
Cool. You guys are killing it. I briefly thought about financial planning(as in about 30 seconds), but it totally seems like a grind like any other. And as you said, no way I'm doing sales. If friends and acquaintances ask for advice, I'll help. If they really show interest, then maybe we can meet at a local brewery and I'll accept a flight of beers as payment lol. What kind of employment are you in? Is it project based, time based, etc?
I'm an IT Business Analyst. Right now, it's time-based (40 hours a week) but it's flexible in the sense that I could be taken off some projects to get me in a 30 hour or 20 hour range. I'm more interested in 3 weeks on, 1 week off, though, and I'm not sure how that will work. For now, I'm cautiously optimistic. :)
Good luck 🤞 . Have you thought about the pitch on how to handle the 3 weeks on 1 week off?
Good question. The short answer is no. :) I'm planning to start the conversation next summer (say June) so I haven't thought a ton about the details. Any suggestions?
Not any strong ones :) just thinking about the BAs I work with they should be able to disappear/ go on leave for a week at points during development cycles, so maybe keeping it flexible with whoever your pm/supervisor is to minimize impact. First thing that came to mind.
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Saw this thread come up on another post and am PTF. I am so close to downshifting and have all sorts of feelings about it (including that I might be insane).
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Saw this thread come up on another post and am PTF. I am so close to downshifting and have all sorts of feelings about it (including that I might be insane).
Just do it. You'll never look back.
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Not sure how I missed this thread when it was originally going around. I downshifted to 3-days per week in 2019 (originally planned to FIRE but employer offered me a sweet deal I couldn’t refuse.) I initially took a 25% pay cut but over time they’ve given back that 25% and added more to it. I typically work only the 3-days mid-week, but make myself available, if absolutely needed, on a limited basis the other two days. It’s worked out great for us on many levels; however, I do plan to fully walk away later this year. This OMY stuff can be hard to overcome. I need to get over my anxiety related to moving from saving to spending our stash.
FWIW, I’d previously inquired about the possibility of going part-time and had been told “no.” Once I gave notice their tune changed immediately.
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Not sure how I missed this thread when it was originally going around. I downshifted to 3-days per week in 2019 (originally planned to FIRE but employer offered me a sweet deal I couldn’t refuse.) I initially took a 25% pay cut but over time they’ve given back that 25% and added more to it. I typically work only the 3-days mid-week, but make myself available, if absolutely needed, on a limited basis the other two days. It’s worked out great for us on many levels; however, I do plan to fully walk away later this year. This OMY stuff can be hard to overcome. I need to get over my anxiety related to moving from saving to spending our stash.
FWIW, I’d previously inquired about the possibility of going part-time and had been told “no.” Once I gave notice their tune changed immediately.
That is a great point I now make 5% more than I did my last full time year working a 90% schedule and taking 8 unpaid weeks off this year.
My transition to spending is going smoother than I thought. The difference between rich and wealthy is the rich think about money bc it's primarily income cash flow based. The wealthy don't really worry about it or think about it.
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Where I work raises are typically 2-3%, with 4-5% reserved for the very top tier. So even a 10% downshift (which works out to be a ~7% downshift in salary when you factor in taxes) would take 2-3 years to get back to the pre-downshift salary.
So @iluvzbeach and @boarder42, it's pretty awesome that you've downshifted and made it back to and beyond your original salaries so quickly. Congrats!
I've explored downshifting extensively, and dabbled in it a couple times. For me it's very difficult to accept giving up some of the cash firehose. Once I get over that mental block, it seems like the optimal way (for me) to slowly ease into RE. Kind of OMY-lite, which is better than full-blown OMY...I think.
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Where I work raises are typically 2-3%, with 4-5% reserved for the very top tier. So even a 10% downshift (which works out to be a ~7% downshift in salary when you factor in taxes) would take 2-3 years to get back to the pre-downshift salary.
So @iluvzbeach and @boarder42, it's pretty awesome that you've downshifted and made it back to and beyond your original salaries so quickly. Congrats!
I've explored downshifting extensively, and dabbled in it a couple times. For me it's very difficult to accept giving up some of the cash firehose. Once I get over that mental block, it seems like the optimal way (for me) to slowly ease into RE. Kind of OMY-lite, which is better than full-blown OMY...I think.
I'm going to 75% time and I am giving up 25%. I have no idea how long it will take me to get back to old salary but I don't really care. I'm also not in the same boat as those two finance wise but it's the tradeoff I want to do with my time.
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I'm going to 75% time and I am giving up 25%. I have no idea how long it will take me to get back to old salary but I don't really care. I'm also not in the same boat as those two finance wise but it's the tradeoff I want to do with my time.
Are you really even giving up 25% though? Probably more like 15% (assuming 22% fed rate + 7.65% FICA + a few % for state income tax).
Anyway, it's awesome that you've prioritized 25% of your time over 25% (or 15%!) of your salary. Especially if you're not yet FI. That sort of decision can take a lot of courage.
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I'm going to 75% time and I am giving up 25%. I have no idea how long it will take me to get back to old salary but I don't really care. I'm also not in the same boat as those two finance wise but it's the tradeoff I want to do with my time.
Are you really even giving up 25% though? Probably more like 15% (assuming 22% fed rate + 7.65% FICA + a few % for state income tax).
Anyway, it's awesome that you've prioritized 25% of your time over 25% (or 15%!) of your salary. Especially if you're not yet FI. That sort of decision can take a lot of courage.
Courage or stupidity ? Lol. We're somewhere in the 4-7 year timeline to FI and this pushes it to maybe 7-10 all assuming modest returns.
It is 25% base pay reduction and yes it is not 25 % reduction in take home for the reasons you mentioned. DWs employment status is a bit finicky at the moment, but absolute worst case scenario we will not spend more than we make. Further, after this coming year at least one kid will be out of day care and frees up a lot of cash :)
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i've been a downshifter for a couple of months now- 20 hours per week and no doubt its been the best decision i've made for my present and future self!
a handful of co workers and/or their family members recently passed before they even had a change to retire.... feeling super depressed for them and is a reminder to try and appreciate/be grateful for each day. easier to accomplish that when its on a off day!
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I'm going to 75% time and I am giving up 25%. I have no idea how long it will take me to get back to old salary but I don't really care. I'm also not in the same boat as those two finance wise but it's the tradeoff I want to do with my time.
Are you really even giving up 25% though? Probably more like 15% (assuming 22% fed rate + 7.65% FICA + a few % for state income tax).
Anyway, it's awesome that you've prioritized 25% of your time over 25% (or 15%!) of your salary. Especially if you're not yet FI. That sort of decision can take a lot of courage.
Courage or stupidity ? Lol. We're somewhere in the 4-7 year timeline to FI and this pushes it to maybe 7-10 all assuming modest returns.
It is 25% base pay reduction and yes it is not 25 % reduction in take home for the reasons you mentioned. DWs employment status is a bit finicky at the moment, but absolute worst case scenario we will not spend more than we make. Further, after this coming year at least one kid will be out of day care and frees up a lot of cash :)
That's about the same ball park I was in when I chose to do it we had about 50% of our FI number.
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It's tempting to go PT, but I've already decided to work only 25-35 hours a week from home but with a FT salary. I'm going to do that for a while, but if or when projects / expectations / meetings increase that put me closer to 40 hours a week as well as more daily commutes to the office, that will only accelerate my desire to FI, which I'm thinking will be mid-2022.
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It's tempting to go PT, but I've already decided to work only 25-35 hours a week from home but with a FT salary. I'm going to do that for a while, but if or when projects / expectations / meetings increase that put me closer to 40 hours a week as well as more daily commutes to the office, that will only accelerate my desire to FI, which I'm thinking will be mid-2022.
That's basically what I did last year. Had planned to down shift to 30 a week but no reason when I'm at home and can do whatever. Though after being "free" on FMLA from the availability to answer and resolve issues and client calls and meeting etc. Being "off" is far different
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It's tempting to go PT, but I've already decided to work only 25-35 hours a week from home but with a FT salary. I'm going to do that for a while, but if or when projects / expectations / meetings increase that put me closer to 40 hours a week as well as more daily commutes to the office, that will only accelerate my desire to FI, which I'm thinking will be mid-2022.
That's basically what I did last year. Had planned to down shift to 30 a week but no reason when I'm at home and can do whatever. Though after being "free" on FMLA from the availability to answer and resolve issues and client calls and meeting etc. Being "off" is far different
Somebody asked me why I didn't just want to work after I picked kids up or before they got up severely underestimated the benefit of being able to resist this thing. They also didn't understand how I could also give up the cash, but that's a different aspect.
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It's tempting to go PT, but I've already decided to work only 25-35 hours a week from home but with a FT salary. I'm going to do that for a while, but if or when projects / expectations / meetings increase that put me closer to 40 hours a week as well as more daily commutes to the office, that will only accelerate my desire to FI, which I'm thinking will be mid-2022.
That's basically what I did last year. Had planned to down shift to 30 a week but no reason when I'm at home and can do whatever. Though after being "free" on FMLA from the availability to answer and resolve issues and client calls and meeting etc. Being "off" is far different
Somebody asked me why I didn't just want to work after I picked kids up or before they got up severely underestimated the benefit of being able to resist this thing. They also didn't understand how I could also give up the cash, but that's a different aspect.
Oh the cash statements I get are hilarious. Like your wife must make a ton. No she's retired now.
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It's tempting to go PT, but I've already decided to work only 25-35 hours a week from home but with a FT salary. I'm going to do that for a while, but if or when projects / expectations / meetings increase that put me closer to 40 hours a week as well as more daily commutes to the office, that will only accelerate my desire to FI, which I'm thinking will be mid-2022.
That's basically what I did last year. Had planned to down shift to 30 a week but no reason when I'm at home and can do whatever. Though after being "free" on FMLA from the availability to answer and resolve issues and client calls and meeting etc. Being "off" is far different
Somebody asked me why I didn't just want to work after I picked kids up or before they got up severely underestimated the benefit of being able to resist this thing. They also didn't understand how I could also give up the cash, but that's a different aspect.
Oh the cash statements I get are hilarious. Like your wife must make a ton. No she's retired now.
For federal employees, most spend and work the career for the pension. Sometimes people come in mid to late career from the private sector and rumors spread they have a "nice portfolio." The few that ask how we can do it, my response is that we've saved a bunch over the last 10 years and the stock market has been good to us, so it's more about quality of life than money right now. The confused ones feel a bit relieves when I say "right now" and basically assume I'll need to go back to full time. Others are interested in how to figure out to do the same thing. Lots of upstream current in this right now.
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i've been a downshifter for a couple of months now- 20 hours per week and no doubt its been the best decision i've made for my present and future self!
a handful of co workers and/or their family members recently passed before they even had a change to retire.... feeling super depressed for them and is a reminder to try and appreciate/be grateful for each day. easier to accomplish that when its on a off day!
Glad it's working out for you! You can add my dad to that list. He had a massive heart attack and passed away two months before he was going to retire.
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Saw this thread come up on another post and am PTF. I am so close to downshifting and have all sorts of feelings about it (including that I might be insane).
Just do it. You'll never look back.
Thanks :) The thing that is giving me agita is that once I am done w/ my employer, I don't think I can get back into my field if something goes wrong (have done some research on this, spoke to recruiters, I am a hard sell because of my educational background and location).
I asked for an hours reduction two years ago and was told no. So now I have to be ready to walk away if they say no again. I think I have real leverage here, but have to be prepared that I've overestimated my worth.
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Saw this thread come up on another post and am PTF. I am so close to downshifting and have all sorts of feelings about it (including that I might be insane).
Just do it. You'll never look back.
Thanks :) The thing that is giving me agita is that once I am done w/ my employer, I don't think I can get back into my field if something goes wrong (have done some research on this, spoke to recruiters, I am a hard sell because of my educational background and location).
I asked for an hours reduction two years ago and was told no. So now I have to be ready to walk away if they say no again. I think I have real leverage here, but have to be prepared that I've overestimated my worth.
Wife was told the same thing about part time a year ago. She put her 4 week notice in and they were like you can come back part time whenever you want. Or if you want to do some contracting let us know
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i've been a downshifter for a couple of months now- 20 hours per week and no doubt its been the best decision i've made for my present and future self!
a handful of co workers and/or their family members recently passed before they even had a change to retire.... feeling super depressed for them and is a reminder to try and appreciate/be grateful for each day. easier to accomplish that when its on a off day!
Glad it's working out for you! You can add my dad to that list. He had a massive heart attack and passed away two months before he was going to retire.
Sorry to hear that. Life can be surprisingly tenuous. Looking at the Rich, Broke, or Dead site (another posted linked it in a different thread) was really eye-opening. I'm in good health but still have over 20% chance of dying before reaching age 75. Chance of running out of money was 5% or less.
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Glad it's working out for you! You can add my dad to that list. He had a massive heart attack and passed away two months before he was going to retire.
Sorry to hear that. Life can be surprisingly tenuous. Looking at the Rich, Broke, or Dead site (another posted linked it in a different thread) was really eye-opening. I'm in good health but still have over 20% chance of dying before reaching age 75. Chance of running out of money was 5% or less.
My dad taught me just as many lessons on how not to live life as he did good ways to live it. I love the RBD calculator, and use it often. Anecdotes are ubiquitous, of course. A few years ago a guy in my career path retired after 30+ years at the same employer, and died within a week. Ugh.
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Hello All! I'm planning to downshift as well...currently I'm working 4-day weeks and using up copious amounts of annual leave to take every Friday off. That should get me through the end of 2021.
For next year, I'm hoping to convince my supervisor that I should permanently work 4-day weeks (using sick leave). Having never really used sick leave, it has just been piling up.
Some day, I yearn for the 3-day work week. I actually like the structure of working, and as a natural introvert, working keeps me from going full-time hermit.
Nice. I have a coworker who works 4 days...he simply will not go back to 5 days a week he loves it so much. I'm thinking I might start using some pto in the back half of the year to take off Wed. I work every other week, but it's a 5 day week. Putting a break in the middle would be pretty sweet.
We lived in France a couple of years ago and the kids had Wednesdays out of school, so we adapted our schedule to that as well. That break in the middle made such a surprising difference! I would have thought long weekends would be better, but now I'm not so sure. They also had two weeks off for every six weeks of school. The rhythm of life there was really nice. Nothing seemed too daunting because of the more frequent breaks.
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I haven't posted in a long time, but when I saw this thread I thought I would share that I put in a request for 2/3 time a couple of weeks ago. Still waiting to hear but it should go through. Pretty excited about this, and it's reversible if I don't like it (most likely will downshift even more in a year or two). Our house is paid off, we are pretty much at FI minus travel expenses, and have pretty secure jobs. I don't think this will slow our timeline to a comfortable FI very much. I think working from home for the past year made this decision much easier in terms of realizing what I don't want to go back to, and also in terms of concerns about how it might be perceived by coworkers. Many probably won't even notice!
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We lived in France a couple of years ago and the kids had Wednesdays out of school, so we adapted our schedule to that as well. That break in the middle made such a surprising difference! I would have thought long weekends would be better, but now I'm not so sure. They also had two weeks off for every six weeks of school. The rhythm of life there was really nice. Nothing seemed too daunting because of the more frequent breaks.
When I was commuting to an office, I had a lot of PTO piled up that would vanish at the end of the year if I didn't use XX hours of it...so I took every Wednesday off for almost an entire year. It really was like two weeks in one. Mon, Tue WEEKEND, Thur Fri double WEEKEND!
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I haven't posted in a long time, but when I saw this thread I thought I would share that I put in a request for 2/3 time a couple of weeks ago. Still waiting to hear but it should go through. Pretty excited about this, and it's reversible if I don't like it (most likely will downshift even more in a year or two). Our house is paid off, we are pretty much at FI minus travel expenses, and have pretty secure jobs. I don't think this will slow our timeline to a comfortable FI very much. I think working from home for the past year made this decision much easier in terms of realizing what I don't want to go back to, and also in terms of concerns about how it might be perceived by coworkers. Many probably won't even notice!
That's awesome. It may not slow it but will likely improve your mental well-being. Good luck!
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PTF. I think I am near a point where working five 6hr days sounds like a good idea (with a pay cut). Am very close to FI so would not really delay much; but am just not sure what my final FI number is. I am basically at my current number but may want to move to a higher COLA or do more in RE than I do now. Pulse some OMY syndrome; and a gradual down shift sounds nice.
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We lived in France a couple of years ago and the kids had Wednesdays out of school, so we adapted our schedule to that as well. That break in the middle made such a surprising difference! I would have thought long weekends would be better, but now I'm not so sure. They also had two weeks off for every six weeks of school. The rhythm of life there was really nice. Nothing seemed too daunting because of the more frequent breaks.
When I was commuting to an office, I had a lot of PTO piled up that would vanish at the end of the year if I didn't use XX hours of it...so I took every Wednesday off for almost an entire year. It really was like two weeks in one. Mon, Tue WEEKEND, Thur Fri double WEEKEND!
Yes, that is exactly what it felt like! We would do local fun stuff on Wednesdays and explore nearby towns and villages on the weekends. It really did feel like two weekends a week.
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I haven't posted in a long time, but when I saw this thread I thought I would share that I put in a request for 2/3 time a couple of weeks ago. Still waiting to hear but it should go through. Pretty excited about this, and it's reversible if I don't like it (most likely will downshift even more in a year or two). Our house is paid off, we are pretty much at FI minus travel expenses, and have pretty secure jobs. I don't think this will slow our timeline to a comfortable FI very much. I think working from home for the past year made this decision much easier in terms of realizing what I don't want to go back to, and also in terms of concerns about how it might be perceived by coworkers. Many probably won't even notice!
That's awesome. It may not slow it but will likely improve your mental well-being. Good luck!
Thank you! Fingers crossed it goes through. And good luck to you! I'm sure it will do wonders for my well-being. Less busy-busy time, more time with kids, more time to do fun stuff like take classes or meet friends for coffee. The stash will still be growing and we'll be putting away a considerable amount still. I don't see much downside. We could always save more faster, but my husband loves his job and is not interested in stopping for another few years at least.
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PTF. I think I am near a point where working five 6hr days sounds like a good idea (with a pay cut). Am very close to FI so would not really delay much; but am just not sure what my final FI number is. I am basically at my current number but may want to move to a higher COLA or do more in RE than I do now. Pulse some OMY syndrome; and a gradual down shift sounds nice.
Similar situation for us. We want more cushioning but this is like a reward for making it this far and kind of a way to dip my toes into some parts of FIRE life. Jobs are quite flexible too so there will still be vacation time for longer trips, etc.
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PTF. I think I am near a point where working five 6hr days sounds like a good idea (with a pay cut). Am very close to FI so would not really delay much; but am just not sure what my final FI number is. I am basically at my current number but may want to move to a higher COLA or do more in RE than I do now. Pulse some OMY syndrome; and a gradual down shift sounds nice.
Similar situation for us. We want more cushioning but this is like a reward for making it this far and kind of a way to dip my toes into some parts of FIRE life. Jobs are quite flexible too so there will still be vacation time for longer trips, etc.
That's why I went to 32-hr weeks. I wasn't at a fire number yet, but I'd been saving for (what felt like) a loooong time, and I figured my 75% savings rate could take a hit. It was time to start enjoying what I've been saving for for so long.
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I have downshifted, and recommend. I am upshifting now for no particularly good reason, so I thought y'all might have some interest or comments to offer.
I work for a company that allows you to take breaks whenever you want (as long as you don't drop out in the middle of an assignment and mess up with your client). No work, no salary, but they are happy to have you back if you are a solid worker. I took what was initially going to be a 6 month break right before Covid hit. 6 months stretched to about 18. Pulling money off the investment accounts was not fun, but I was fine with it financially.
At about 18 months, I got offered a project and decided to take. I was just on the almost side of FIRE, so the money was welcome. It turns out the client was great and they offered me a job. The thlot pickens.
Now, I have some choices. I live in a VHCOL area, thought I was able to find cheap rent in a place I love and my expenses are low. I can work 1 more year and hit FIRE free and clear. Or I can work a few months here and a few months there and FIRE in about 2 years, give or take. Or I can move somewhere cheaper - I like lots of places - and FIRE today. I can also take the job, which I think I will, if:
1. I can continue to work from home indefinitely. My dog likes having me home and the feeling is mutual. I also do not want to wear pants.
2. I do not have to move, or if I do move it will be to a place I have been curious about in a while.
3. If I have to move, it happens on my schedule.
4. I have a 2 year shelf life. I don't want to gun for a promotion. I want to be able to help the people I grew to like work through a transition and then ride into the sunset.
I don't have a big conclusion to this. I am doing it because I like the people, it occupies my days and I am in an extremely Covid-safe situation with almost no chance of a lockdown and even less of a chance of infection for me. I could do with taking more naps and spending more time away from screens, but I look at it as giving up the naps for health and (more) financial security.
I do have a little conclusion, though. If you are in a position to downshift, there of ways to do it and play with how much you work and when. I am a fan of working at irregular intervals.
My dog is a big supporter too.
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I have downshifted, and recommend. I am upshifting now for no particularly good reason, so I thought y'all might have some interest or comments to offer.
I work for a company that allows you to take breaks whenever you want (as long as you don't drop out in the middle of an assignment and mess up with your client). No work, no salary, but they are happy to have you back if you are a solid worker. I took what was initially going to be a 6 month break right before Covid hit. 6 months stretched to about 18. Pulling money off the investment accounts was not fun, but I was fine with it financially.
At about 18 months, I got offered a project and decided to take. I was just on the almost side of FIRE, so the money was welcome. It turns out the client was great and they offered me a job. The thlot pickens.
Now, I have some choices. I live in a VHCOL area, thought I was able to find cheap rent in a place I love and my expenses are low. I can work 1 more year and hit FIRE free and clear. Or I can work a few months here and a few months there and FIRE in about 2 years, give or take. Or I can move somewhere cheaper - I like lots of places - and FIRE today. I can also take the job, which I think I will, if:
1. I can continue to work from home indefinitely. My dog likes having me home and the feeling is mutual. I also do not want to wear pants.
2. I do not have to move, or if I do move it will be to a place I have been curious about in a while.
3. If I have to move, it happens on my schedule.
4. I have a 2 year shelf life. I don't want to gun for a promotion. I want to be able to help the people I grew to like work through a transition and then ride into the sunset.
I don't have a big conclusion to this. I am doing it because I like the people, it occupies my days and I am in an extremely Covid-safe situation with almost no chance of a lockdown and even less of a chance of infection for me. I could do with taking more naps and spending more time away from screens, but I look at it as giving up the naps for health and (more) financial security.
I do have a little conclusion, though. If you are in a position to downshift, there of ways to do it and play with how much you work and when. I am a fan of working at irregular intervals.
My dog is a big supporter too.
That's amazing and I'm glad it's working out for your dog. And you too I guess
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My downshifts are usually a pretty large jump in rpms more than I'd like so I'll be having my friend build a better transmission. Wait, not that kind of downshift?
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I'm thinking about submitting a request to downshift responsibility to reduce stress with the secondary goal of a four day workweek at the same hours or slightly less. I'm struggling with the fear of regret: I assume there will be a large pay cut, and I'd be giving up my last, highest earning years before retirement that would really increase my stash, which is at about 75% of where it should be based on current expenses.
On the other hand, I'm so burned out that downshifting is the compromise I've made to keep myself from quitting completely. I'm trying to compose a written request but can't get too far beyond "I'd like to redefine my role to reduce my level of responsibility." Any suggestions? (This is my first post so please be gentle with any face punches.)
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I'm thinking about submitting a request to downshift responsibility to reduce stress with the secondary goal of a four day workweek at the same hours or slightly less. I'm struggling with the fear of regret: I assume there will be a large pay cut, and I'd be giving up my last, highest earning years before retirement that would really increase my stash, which is at about 75% of where it should be based on current expenses.
On the other hand, I'm so burned out that downshifting is the compromise I've made to keep myself from quitting completely. I'm trying to compose a written request but can't get too far beyond "I'd like to redefine my role to reduce my level of responsibility." Any suggestions? (This is my first post so please be gentle with any face punches.)
Post a case study, but based on your post it sounds like mentally you want to do it already. If you're not bleeding cash and have a decent stash , shouldn't be a problem. However it can impact savings and time to FI.
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It does impact savings and time to FI, but after 15 years of working towards it, I was ready to start enjoying the fruits of my labor. It doesn't change the timeline as much as you think, and being 4 days/32 hours is suuuuuuch a big difference, I have zero regrets. Can you do your job in 32 hours? I knew I'd be able to, so it wasn't too difficult of a conversation with my boss, and we tried it for a quarter to make sure it didn't negatively impact the team. You don't have to have a formal proposal to start the conversation.
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Almost 4 months in, so time to join up here.
Why you did it?
We started down this FIRE path in 2013 - I was working a well paying job, but had recently been put under a manager I did not like working for in my government-contracting computer programming gig. Nice guy with "people" stuff, but horrible with "manage the work" stuff. Newly married (2012), I surely wasn't ready to quit, but finding a way out in short order was very appealing. By 2015 or 2016, my wife grew tired of her stable state job ("tired of" doesn't really describe it, but I don't have the words right now) and started a career change that would require more formal education. Started taking one class at a time, and then got a call about a job she had applied for years ago with the legislature. She wound up taking that job (which I fully supported). It turned out to be a horrible fit - the super high pressure environment combined with long stretches of absolutely nothing to do but still having to show up made her miserable. By 2017, she fully quit to focus on the school needed for the career change. But she almost as miserable, particularly as the pre-requisites got harder and harder as she moved the goalposts on herself to "PA" from "RN". And by 2018 I was reaching the end of my rope at my job.
The search was on, but one day a vendor we had worked with for years was on-site and I blurted out "are you hiring?" in an awkward way. By April I'm working for them and in May we move to California. The California job was fantastic for me - not just novelty but just about every aspect of that project was awesome. But not so much at home - turns out stuff like "Organic Chemistry" is even harder at the schools in California. As planned(ish) we moved back a year and a half later in October 2019. 6 months after that, obviously the pandemic hit. I was still supporting California, and added minor tasks for another state as well. The company I had signed with in 2018 had been acquired and that merger was starting to be very real. March 2020 I had a conversation where I was promised another year renewal contract, but that quickly turned into "we don't do 1099 anymore - you can come on as W-2 or be out of work on July 1." I caved (they came up $20K on salary helping me cave). But as an employee I was feeling a ton of pressure - we're proposing you in this state, we need you to do more in other two states. I was on the org chart along with one other guy in the "we pay these people too much to put them anywhere else on the org chart." And salary vs. my last 10 years of hourly contract work - suddenly I had to enforce boundaries about work time. Before I didn't mind long hours because that meant more money. Not so now. But overall I can tolerate the situation, and there were some interesting projects potentially coming up.
And then my old job got in touch, "any interest in coming back?". I wasn't interested in changing full time jobs, but I decided to just ask for part time terms that I'd find acceptable - part time, go through old middle man so I can get back to "self-employed", an hourly rate I thought they'd frankly say no to. But they said yes to everything. So sI'm now back working part time at my old job since May 1st. The boss I referred to earlier - retired 2 months after I moved to California in 2018. Neither I nor my coworkers knew this was happening so soon. Not sure how all this plays out if I had that piece of information back then.
What your downshift looks like?
I work Monday through Wednesday 8 to 10 hours per day. 8 is what we agreed to, but I'm approved for more time than 24 hours per week comes too, and sometimes there's something I want to finish at the end of a day. Plus hourly so when I choose to do more work time = more money, I have full freedom to choose remote or on-site and I've exercised that, often making the decision day-of.
What do you like about it?
4 days off per week, even when I have a more relaxing weekend than I probably should I still do better with housework and such than I used to. I'm able to do some volunteer work I signed up for without losing my mind (too much) over not having enough hours in the day. On paper anyway I have enough time to do everything. Paper <> Reality yet, but I'm working on it.
I don't find I'm lonely or anything along those lines, but then my wife has said "you're the most introverted person I've ever met", so hang out with her plus hockey once per week plus interaction with coworkers on the days I do decide to go to the office is more than enough to meet my needs.
What isn't so awesome about it?
Theoretically, we can take that long weekend trip whenever we want, but wife is still in school and has started a job she likes as a health educator so between those two things while I'm largely open on Thursdays and Fridays, we are not. I'm hoping to negotiate to a more similar schedule once she graduates at the end of April. Masters in Public Health - turns out the career change wasn't supposed to be to RN or PA, but Health Educator. She loves this job where she teaches a 6 week class to recently diagnosed diabetics.
I'm also not finding the adjustment to this schedule as easy I was hoping. Struggling to keep consistent hours. Sleeping poorly, which in my case often means over-sleeping. Got into some bad habits supporting a west-coast customer from an east-coast home office. I'm sure not all of this is "downshift isn't all it is cracked up to be", but I'm equally as sure some of it is. In any event, working on it.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I honestly think this level of work might be sustainable long-haul. Granted with ~30 years to "normal" retirement age a lot can change. But portfolio is already at a point where things pencil out if we cut to a lower spending level, which shouldn't be too difficult. A lot of people make it in our area on less than our portfolio supports at 4%. Not us right at the moment, but people do which means we can too. And not so long ago we had our spending within what 5% of our portfolio supports, also a defensible withdraw rate. So we're close to our number already, but if this coasting I'm doing continues to work out I don't think I'll have as compelling a need to stop it as I was feeling 8 years ago. That would allow us to donate a ton of money to charity (we already have ramped this up substantially), travel without getting too hung up on costs. Basically I'm hoping that coast-fire comes with a real feeling of coasting for a long time.
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I honestly think this level of work might be sustainable long-haul.
That's how I've felt too. The switch to 4 day work weeks was so significant, I feel like if I could switch to 3 days (both financially and logistically), coupled with being remote, I could do that for much longer than I initially hoped to have to work.
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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I figured why start a new one when I've seen recent posts from a lot of names here and figured while not many, there are some mighty names here I respect and wanted to say thanks. I will probably be asking to go to part time in the fall, 5x6 hour days for kid reasons, and while I'd love to do 4x6 I doubt a) it'd be approved and b) our income situation is just a bit precarious right now with DW launching a solo biz and potentially never going back to her employer where she's been furloughed since Covid hit.
I probably fall into the category of nervous/scared and not relying on the math as while we're at 50-65% of FI numbers we still have $650k+ invested and dropping to 3/4 time will only decrease savings rate from ~50% to ~25%, if DW's business stalls and her employer does not call her back to work...
In the mean time, I have a few items I'd like to figure out. Maybe I'll start a journal.
Anyway, thanks all for good info here. Wish me luck as I'm realizing my timeline of "fall" happens to be in approximately less than 3 months. Eeeeeeeek.
Well. I've been on my reduced schedule for a couple of weeks now. First. How on earth did I find time to work an extra 10 hours a week? Good lord 8-5 is such a long day.
It's a bit weird right now, both with things being a bit crazy with year end work and also with projects still transitioning out. I'm a bit busier throughout the day than I'd like to be. I've been running out of time at 6 hours to wrap up everything I would like to by the end of the day, so really what that means is things just trickle over into the next and sometimes I have to multitask. Again, temporary.
My concerns about not knowing the future 3 months ago about DWs employer bringing her back are still lingering. However, self employment business is booming for now. I'm much less worried about it now that we're here. It was 100% the right call for us life wise.
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I honestly think this level of work might be sustainable long-haul.
That's how I've felt too. The switch to 4 day work weeks was so significant, I feel like if I could switch to 3 days (both financially and logistically), coupled with being remote, I could do that for much longer than I initially hoped to have to work.
I haven't done it yet, but this is kind of my expectation. I like my job pretty well, and could see doing 3 or 4 days a week pretty much indefinitely. We shall see. :)
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It is interesting to me that very few mentioned where their benefits stand with the downshift. Someone mentioned their company cutoff as 24 hours, but not much else. Anyone have input on this?
DH is beginning downshift negotiations and the timing that is ideal to us depends a lot on what benefits they can offer. Being able to continue to vest existing RSUs is *huge*, but health insurance (100% paid vs us paying 102% via COBRA!) and some of the smaller benefits all add up. Even so, he is willing to consider downshifting tomorrow if he can keep the RSUs if it also means the team can hire someone new sooner.
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When I downshifted I was able to keep all benefits, including vesting of RSUs. It should all be available as part of the negotiation.
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It is interesting to me that very few mentioned where their benefits stand with the downshift. Someone mentioned their company cutoff as 24 hours, but not much else. Anyone have input on this?
It's very company-specific, so you'd have to ask. I keep health insurance down to 30 hours, but keep 401k match down to I think 20. Since I only went to 32 all I lost was some money. If I wanted to go to 24 hours, it would take a lot more planning.
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It is interesting to me that very few mentioned where their benefits stand with the downshift. Someone mentioned their company cutoff as 24 hours, but not much else. Anyone have input on this?
DH is beginning downshift negotiations and the timing that is ideal to us depends a lot on what benefits they can offer. Being able to continue to vest existing RSUs is *huge*, but health insurance (100% paid vs us paying 102% via COBRA!) and some of the smaller benefits all add up. Even so, he is willing to consider downshifting tomorrow if he can keep the RSUs if it also means the team can hire someone new sooner.
I work for federal government so i can't comment on RSUs. I went to 75% time. I now receive 75% of time off benefits and I pay 25% of the employer portion of health insurance. Additionally my pension annuity for years of service is calculated at 75% for time spent at 3/4 time. That's basically it but likely not going to be as straightforward for other employers.
Oh yeah my salary went down 25% lol. My hourly rate is the same i just work less hours.
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It is interesting to me that very few mentioned where their benefits stand with the downshift. Someone mentioned their company cutoff as 24 hours, but not much else. Anyone have input on this?
DH is beginning downshift negotiations and the timing that is ideal to us depends a lot on what benefits they can offer. Being able to continue to vest existing RSUs is *huge*, but health insurance (100% paid vs us paying 102% via COBRA!) and some of the smaller benefits all add up. Even so, he is willing to consider downshifting tomorrow if he can keep the RSUs if it also means the team can hire someone new sooner.
I work for federal government so i can't comment on RSUs. I went to 75% time. I now receive 75% of time off benefits and I pay 25% of the employer portion of health insurance. Additionally my pension annuity for years of service is calculated at 75% for time spent at 3/4 time. That's basically it but likely not going to be as straightforward for other employers.
Oh yeah my salary went down 25% lol. My hourly rate is the same i just work less hours.
i work 90% 4-9s
my salary and PTO dropped proportionally - 10% - all other benefits remained the same if i fall below 30 hours i lose all benefits except for our ESOP plan which i lose if i dont work 1000 hours in a year.
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It is interesting to me that very few mentioned where their benefits stand with the downshift. Someone mentioned their company cutoff as 24 hours, but not much else. Anyone have input on this?
DH is beginning downshift negotiations and the timing that is ideal to us depends a lot on what benefits they can offer. Being able to continue to vest existing RSUs is *huge*, but health insurance (100% paid vs us paying 102% via COBRA!) and some of the smaller benefits all add up. Even so, he is willing to consider downshifting tomorrow if he can keep the RSUs if it also means the team can hire someone new sooner.
At my company, PT with benefits starts at 16 hrs/wk. You pay a higher rate for health insurance. You keep same 403b match and PTO rate. Eligible for ST disability, but not LT.
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It is interesting to me that very few mentioned where their benefits stand with the downshift. Someone mentioned their company cutoff as 24 hours, but not much else. Anyone have input on this?
DH is beginning downshift negotiations and the timing that is ideal to us depends a lot on what benefits they can offer. Being able to continue to vest existing RSUs is *huge*, but health insurance (100% paid vs us paying 102% via COBRA!) and some of the smaller benefits all add up. Even so, he is willing to consider downshifting tomorrow if he can keep the RSUs if it also means the team can hire someone new sooner.
At my company, PT with benefits starts at 16 hrs/wk. You pay a higher rate for health insurance. You keep same 403b match and PTO rate. Eligible for ST disability, but not LT.
I guess I was really wondering if anyone had been able to negotiate a package that was different than the standard part time rules or if those are kind of carved in stone due to labor regulations.
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I'm considered full-time as far as benefits go down to 30 hours per week. I suspect I might lose some PTO, though. For context, I work via a PEO for a US company as a Canadian resident.
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Hello all, Joined the forum to reply to this thread.
I am in the UK and started reading MMM in the summer. 39 years old married, 3 children. Since starting reading I sold up our 2nd car and cycle to work now - and to a lot of other places! I also persuaded my employer to cut my hours by 25% and as others have experienced have only seen a 15% cut in pay. I now only do 3 days, t,w,t. I run a small business in my spare time, have two rental houses and a moderate (small when comparing on here!) investment portfolio in an ISA.
To answer the threads questions:
- why you did it?
Few reasons:
Birth of our 3rd child
Side business needing more time
Feeling in work that i will never be satisfied doing someone else's bidding
- what your downshift looks like?
Sorry that was covered above
- what do you like about it?
Monday and friday are my days, do as I please. Sit in the garden drink tea and watch the birds, go earn some money working for someone, go earn my own money etc. My choice!
Freedom
Ability to take care of my children on these days. Sometimes as simple as walking them to school and back, or looking after them if they are sick. Helping them with their homework, normally I feel too tired to do this after a day in the office.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Work is slightly negatively affected, appears some of the office staff think I should be stringing the company line and setting an example (not sure who to), this is just a feeling at the moment nothing been said. It may be just jealousy or I've made it up in my head. I also feel I will be left out of promotion and any further opportunity, although I don't want this, I know from previous experience this is a fallacy, more work and stress for little extra pay.
I feel odd and am struggling to gain my identity as others have said. I feel a little like a sheep who has lost its master and need to be lead. But I hate this and love it when I step out on my own with work. Conflicted!
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I plan to extend my business and train in further work to do of my own and ultimately stop working for someone else. Although I haven't set any time frame to this. My own income from property could cover my outgoings but with young family etc some money flowing for a while is nice. Once they are grown up, I cant see myself continuing to work.
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Welcome Eniacs! Looks like you've got your "stuff" together. Quite the juggling act to keep you busy :).
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- why you did it?
The pandemic changed everything. I was out of work for over 1 yr and I enjoyed every bit of it.
I got my job back and my wife quit her end of Sept.
I'm at about 70% of what I worked before and will go down to 50% next year to get ACA for 2022.
- what your downshift looks like?
I work 3 days a week. Sometimes 4 sometimes 2. Basically whatever I want.
My 3 days will cover all our expenses while letting our current stash grow. NW around $1.4 million.
- what do you like about it?
What's not to like about it ??
- what isn't so awesome about it?
We do have a budget now and we follow it.
It's all mentally actually. We can maintain our lifestyles just as before but since the work income only cover expenses, we don't want to over spend and dip into our current stash. But then again our stash is growing exponentially.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
My job is very flexible. I can basically take off when ever my want while my wife cannot.
Since she quit last Sept, we are free to travel as we please.
We have gone to Colo. in Oct. We have a trip to Tahiti end of Nov.
Ski trip in Dec and many afterwards as we have the Epic pass this season.
We will hit Colo, Tahoe, Utah, Vermont and others during this winter season. This will get us through end of April.
Looking at a big trip in May. Europe or Vietnam. We'll see what Covid will be like by that time.
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- why you did it?
The pandemic changed everything. I was out of work for over 1 yr and I enjoyed every not of it.
I got my job back and my wife quit her end of Sept.
I'm at about 70% of what I worked before and will go down to 50% next year to get ACA for 2022.
- what your downshift looks like?
I work 3 days a week. Sometimes 4 sometimes 2. Basically whatever I want.
My 3 days will cover all our expenses while letting our current stash grow. NW around $1.4 million.
- what do you like about it?
What's not to like about it ??
- what isn't so awesome about it?
We do have a budget now and we follow it.
It's all mentally actually. We can maintain our lifestyles just as before but since the income only cover expenses, we don't want to over spend and dip into our current stash. But then again our stash is growing exponentially.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
My job is very flexible. I can basically take off when ever my want while my wife cannot.
Since she quit last Sept, we are free to travel as we please.
We have gone to Colo. in Oct. We have a trip to Tahiti end of Nov.
Ski trip in Dec and many afterwards as we have the Epic pass this season.
We will hit Colo, Tahoe, Utah, Vermont and others during this winter season. This will get us through end of April.
Looking at a big trip in May. Europe or Vietnam. We'll see what Covid will be like by that time.
congrats no one seems to ever regret this choice.
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congrats no one seems to ever regret this choice.
I sure haven't! That's a good open question, anyone regret downshifting and gone back to 40 hours?
I have, admittedly, come close to wanting to. I downshifted at the end of 2019, took a 20% paycut, which was fine. Then the pandemic hit and we lost our bonuses, which was another 20%, which was still fine. Then we bought a house and I moved off the boat (which was super cheap COL). Still (mostly) fine. But we had some big (expensive) things we want to do to the house/property. For the first time in over a decade, I was starting to feel the pressure of lack of income. Thankfully before I could make any mistakes, bonuses came back.
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That's a good open question, anyone regret downshifting and gone back to 40 hours?
Regret it? No.
I did DS and then go back to FT work for a while. I was able to increase my income significantly due to the opportunity to work on two contracts simultaneously.
My thought at the time was that I either wanted to work PT and have a lovely relaxing coast to FIRE despite it taking longer or I was okay with a fast and furious fast track FIRE. Both seemed like better options that the middle of the road average FT gig.
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That's a good open question, anyone regret downshifting and gone back to 40 hours?
PT for just over 2 years now. No regrets.
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I’m coming up on 4 years of a series of downshifts, and it has been the most amazing transition ever.
- why you did it?
I reached lean FI 4 years ago and was ready to reclaim some of my time and take my foot of the gas to coast a little.
- what your downshift looks like?
2011-2017 I was healthcare middle manager, 60+ hour workweeks, little job satisfaction
2018 downshifted to 4x10 hour days back to direct patient care. 10% pay reduction, but back to manageable work week
2020 downshifted to 4x9 hour days, patient care role, pay 10% less, totally worth it
2021 due to a pandemic miracle, was able to downshift to 2x10 hour days, salary pro-rated for 0.5 FTE. I feel like I hardly work at all. !Full Benefits!!!!
- what do you like about it?
I’ve succeeded in flipping the workweek. Instead of working 5 days with 2 off, I work 2 days, with 5 days off. And I have tons of banked sick and vacation days, so I get to take a lot of time off.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Nothing. Loving every minute of it. My husband FIRED early this year, so we get to spend plenty of time together
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Probably continue to work 0.5 FTE for 5 more years to age 55 when golden handcuffs unlock completely (padded pension and some retiree health benefits). Our FIRE number will be more FatFire by that time, which will ensure adequate funding for LTC.
Hope my employer does not wise up to the fact that I am an expensive and not terribly productive employee.
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@LateToTheParty, congratulations on your awesome success at downshifting. Great story!
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why you did it?
Reached FI a while back and then covid happened. Work as a contractor in IT and kept getting renewed so with nothing much else to do continued to add to the stash.
Then when last renewal came round in August this year I requested a 5 week break (agreed to) and also a 4 day week (agreed to)
- what your downshift looks like?
I have every Monday off which is fantastic, its amazing how quickly me and the wife have got used to it (she stopped working a while back).
Typically Monday is now our 'go out and explore' day, going walking, cycling or visiting historic places of interest.
what do you like about it?
3 day weekend; not having to cram outside interests into 2 days.
-what isn't so awesome about it?
I'm pretty much 'phoning it in' regarding my work now. I've lost pretty much all motivation to work as we have more than enough in the stash. Having a 3 day weekend (sometimes 4) means 'work' is now getting in the way.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
From January I will start taking every other Friday off, plus a week off every 6 weeks.
My contract finishes end of August and then that's me done! FIRE here we come!
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Only just found this thread, but downshifted earlier this year - still finding my way (and planning to cut my hours further next year!)
Currently I'm paid based on 24h/week (that allows me to stay as an employee and keep health insurance - though I'm in the UK so the latter isn't such a big deal). My work is project based so it's pretty volatile. I have had 40h/weeks and 8h/weeks or less (this is one of the latter) so it can be stressful at times: particularly if the 40h/week coincides with school holidays and having to piece together some childcare.
On the other hand, I am basically never short of sleep now. Very rarely work on a weekend. Can keep on top of most of my admin during the week, so I don't have to spend so much family time at the weekend on paperwork or laundry. Spend lots of time with the kids and generally know what is going on with them and what they need at school each day. I have the mental bandwidth to juggle that now - which was a struggle when I was doing 40-50 hour weeks, even with a full time nanny.
Anyway, I am still not getting a huge amount of "me" time to sort out the house or pursue hobbies - but the increase in family time and the ability to cook nicer meals and spend more time with the kids has already been a massive benefit. I'm FIRE already, so I'm going to cut my hours more next year - and probably fully RE from there (later next year or 2023 some time I guess), unless something weird happens and I start to really enjoy work again. I used to really love my job - which I've done for nearly 25 years now, but before I down-shifted I was pretty burnt out - and even now I'm kind of "meh" about it all - but still a bit scared to call it a day).
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Also just joined/found this thread.
Currently in the middle of downshifting in a somewhat ambiguous method.
- why you did it?
Change in job function in the "new normal". I like WFH and would continue in this manner for a long time even though I don't need the money. Downshifting in hopes the WFH comes back. If not, will FIRE.
- what your downshift looks like?
Change in responsibilities, less work interaction, less work and not much less income, definitely giving up on future earnings when downshifting, but income not needed.
- what do you like about it?
More free time, less stress, more autonomy.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Loss of influence at work, more of a price taker than price setter at work, almost 0 influence on anything going forward.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
If not WFH in 2022, FIRE and relocate for 6-18 months in fun location and wait for a butterfly to land on my shoulder pointing me in a new direction.
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- why you did it?
During Covid I feel like I worked harder than anyone else at my office. Now we are dealing with a baby-boom.. my entire staff is either pregnant or on maternity leave. I am exhausted and tired of training new people. I have been behind on my work for basically two years and it is terribly uncomfortable for me. This year I moved to a new house, boosting my retirement fund with profits from my sale (I guess its some FU money...) I enjoy my job, but I am completely burnt out and am tired of having no energy at the end of the day. My two school aged kids have very active schedules, so I feel like I am never home to enjoy my awesome new house. I basically stopped my forward motion on my personal growth (finished college December 2020 and hoped to have completed my CPA exams by now, but I haven't had the energy or focus to study, so have gotten nowhere).
- what your downshift looks like?
Right now I generally work 8am - 5pm with an hour lunch break, plus probably an hour per day from home so I can try to get caught up... I didn't actually downshift yet, but I told my employer that I will shift to 25 hours per week on January 1st . I think this will look like 5 x 5-hour days (9am -2pm). I intend to come home, meal plan for dinner (need to be healthier than we are now!) before my kids get home from school, study for a couple of hours for my CPA, then get the kids off to whatever lesson/practice they have that day. Not much of a downshift. I feel terrible when I am not progressing in my personal growth, so I need to build that into my life.
- what do you like about it?
I think I will like taking my time getting going in the morning. Right now, I try to get in as soon as I can to try to get stuff done without interruptions. I would really like to sit on my back porch with my coffee instead and really enjoy the morning.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I have a bit of anxiety about the position I have put myself in. My employer has to bring someone in to train for at least a good part of my job. But really, they should have hired my counter-part by now in order to keep me from getting burned out. I sort of forced their hand. So, it is possible that they will just fully terminate me and replace me. I don't expect that to happen though. I think they see my value very clearly. I need to earn an income, so it would be disappointing if this happened, but I have a couple of years of expenses set aside just in case.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
This will slow my savings down a lot and push back my FIRE date ultimately, but I think trading some relief and joy now for some extra years is worth it. My expenses may naturally go down, since I have some bad habits now (buying coffee/lunch/dinner too often instead of making trying to get everything done). I also have plenty of other fat in my budget I can easily trim. Even without trimming, I will be able to save about 10% of my income towards retirement (I save 35% now, so this is a big drop). Once I complete my CPA exams, my earning potential should improve.
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I downshifted after coming back from maternity leave. The expectation was to go back to FT status, but I've stuck to 4 days a week/80%. It's led to some clarity around role, and come the new year I will be officially moving into more of an individual contributor role instead of a department head. There should be less work on evenings and weekends, less stress, fewer meetings, and more flexibility. My goal is to downshift further to 24 hours a week - but we'll see if I can make that happen.
For now I'm just loving having three days off with my kid. Life feels much more balanced.
(We also moved to a small mountain town during the pandemic, so being physically removed from my corporate HQ has also enabled me to downshift.)
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Finally attempting to ease into downshifting!
Using PTO to work 4 days weeks through the end of the year (this is mostly to show management that things will not fall apart if I work 4 days weeks).
Fingers crossed!
If this works, I'll ease into the new year by using PTO for four days weeks every other week until spring. DH should hear about tenure in April, and then I'll make the request to go to 80%.
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Nice moves, StarBright. Way to use that PTO.
I'm thinking about a further downshift. I average about 30 hours per week now (highly variable) and would love to get to an average 20 hours per week.
One possibility is outsourcing a couple small tasks. I can't outsource most of my job functions because I work with protected data, but there are some admin things I could offload without needing to disclose (I'm a 1099 contractor with an LLC). Does anyone have experience with this? Did you use a service or find an individual VA or some third option?
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- why you did it?
During Covid I feel like I worked harder than anyone else at my office. Now we are dealing with a baby-boom.. my entire staff is either pregnant or on maternity leave. I am exhausted and tired of training new people. I have been behind on my work for basically two years and it is terribly uncomfortable for me. This year I moved to a new house, boosting my retirement fund with profits from my sale (I guess its some FU money...) I enjoy my job, but I am completely burnt out and am tired of having no energy at the end of the day. My two school aged kids have very active schedules, so I feel like I am never home to enjoy my awesome new house. I basically stopped my forward motion on my personal growth (finished college December 2020 and hoped to have completed my CPA exams by now, but I haven't had the energy or focus to study, so have gotten nowhere).
- what your downshift looks like?
Right now I generally work 8am - 5pm with an hour lunch break, plus probably an hour per day from home so I can try to get caught up... I didn't actually downshift yet, but I told my employer that I will shift to 25 hours per week on January 1st . I think this will look like 5 x 5-hour days (9am -2pm). I intend to come home, meal plan for dinner (need to be healthier than we are now!) before my kids get home from school, study for a couple of hours for my CPA, then get the kids off to whatever lesson/practice they have that day. Not much of a downshift. I feel terrible when I am not progressing in my personal growth, so I need to build that into my life.
- what do you like about it?
I think I will like taking my time getting going in the morning. Right now, I try to get in as soon as I can to try to get stuff done without interruptions. I would really like to sit on my back porch with my coffee instead and really enjoy the morning.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I have a bit of anxiety about the position I have put myself in. My employer has to bring someone in to train for at least a good part of my job. But really, they should have hired my counter-part by now in order to keep me from getting burned out. I sort of forced their hand. So, it is possible that they will just fully terminate me and replace me. I don't expect that to happen though. I think they see my value very clearly. I need to earn an income, so it would be disappointing if this happened, but I have a couple of years of expenses set aside just in case.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
This will slow my savings down a lot and push back my FIRE date ultimately, but I think trading some relief and joy now for some extra years is worth it. My expenses may naturally go down, since I have some bad habits now (buying coffee/lunch/dinner too often instead of making trying to get everything done). I also have plenty of other fat in my budget I can easily trim. Even without trimming, I will be able to save about 10% of my income towards retirement (I save 35% now, so this is a big drop). Once I complete my CPA exams, my earning potential should improve.
Sounds like you're ripe for a downshift. I hope it works out for you! You deserve a break!
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Hopefully one of the good things brought about by the pandemic will be the labor market loosening up and letting more people have the option to flex and have more control over their hours. Lots of good stories the last couple of weeks in this thread. Inspiring.
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PTF. I put the mechanisms in place to shift to a flexible reduced schedule with variable hours. I’ll end up having to to go to ACA healthcare, which seems fine once I do the homework on what makes sense. Just knowing it is out there is good for me. I also very much appreciate the management at work who are supportive and pro active in helping make the downshift happen.
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- why you did it?
Had enough to FIRE, gave my notice around the same time my boss got an incurable brain cancer. When he passed before my FIRE date, the new boss begged me to stay on at least part time to help him transition
- what your downshift looks like?
Getting full time benefits and 30 hr/week pay for approximately 10 - 15 hours work plus the occasional several day business trips.
- what do you like about it?
A ton of time to work out, travel for local sport and leisure and can really spend a lot of time resotring antique tools which is my main hobby.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Having mandatory meetings and training that keep us from doing long travel (month long plus).
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE? Final retirement date in Feb 2022. After six months off will do consulting for the same company. 2 - 3 month contracts will allow a lot of time for long distance travel with no rushing back home.
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- why you did it?
Had enough to FIRE, gave my notice around the same time my boss got an incurable brain cancer. When he passed before my FIRE date, the new boss begged me to stay on at least part time to help him transition
- what your downshift looks like?
Getting full time benefits and 30 hr/week pay for approximately 10 - 15 hours work plus the occasional several day business trips.
- what do you like about it?
A ton of time to work out, travel for local sport and leisure and can really spend a lot of time resotring antique tools which is my main hobby.
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Having mandatory meetings and training that keep us from doing long travel (month long plus).
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE? Final retirement date in Feb 2022. After six months off will do consulting for the same company. 2 - 3 month contracts will allow a lot of time for long distance travel with no rushing back home.
i'm giving my formal notice to retire up chain the first week of Jan. People who work for me and laterally know of my plans but I haven't told management. I'm often asked what would make me stay and its a pretty similar situation to yours pay me full time and i work as i please. I would not come to mandatory meetings or trainings though thats something that appears to be exploding at my company. Many have asked if I'd just stick around to consult where my strengths lie. I'd consider it but i doubt they will pay me what i expect to be paid for these consulting timeframes and i'd treat it far more like a when i want to thing vs 2-3 month contracts. All this to say, while my peers and reports would like me to stick around in a mentorship capacity I don't see the company and myself agreeing to a situation that I'd say yes to. Its interesting the responses I'm getting from the people I work with the most but I have a feeling management will likely not attempt to retain me in any capacity which I'm perfectly ok with.
I currently cannot stand the idea of being required to be somewhere doing something at some time. Similar to MMMs latest podcast appearance. It's been my main driver for FIRE. 8 hours butts in seats is not for me.
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That's a good open question, anyone regret downshifting and gone back to 40 hours?
I wouldn't say I regret downshifting, but with so many well-paying WFH jobs available now, I am tempted to go back. Like perhaps I could make more money with minimal extra effort, compared to what I set up before COVID. On the flip side, I'm worried that my over-achieving, people-pleasing habits will kick in and then I'll be back in a stressful situation.
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congrats no one seems to ever regret this choice.
I sure haven't! That's a good open question, anyone regret downshifting and gone back to 40 hours?
I certainly didn't, and while my partner didn't regret the decision to drop to 32 hours a week she did go back to back to 40 hours a week for a few months. Her team had a major delivery of software to support an event that couldn't be moved and she really liked the people on the team. For their sake she wanted the event to be successful. After the delivery she went back to 32.
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That's a good open question, anyone regret downshifting and gone back to 40 hours?
I wouldn't say I regret downshifting, but with so many well-paying WFH jobs available now, I am tempted to go back. Like perhaps I could make more money with minimal extra effort, compared to what I set up before COVID. On the flip side, I'm worried that my over-achieving, people-pleasing habits will kick in and then I'll be back in a stressful situation.
This is me -- I was planning to downshift next year, but I'm having second thoughts. I suspect I might feel more stress (trying to fit more work into less time) and I kind of love being "at work" and being able to do financial stuff and other computer work. I WFH, and I take plenty of breaks and workout at my (extended) lunch hour. I also get 29 days off per year (plus 10 holidays) and I am forced to take them (whereas in my last job I just banked them and got paid out). I'm very good about working no more than 40 hours a week and not checking email off hours. I just started this arrangement in August, and I'm thinking that I might just keep doing it until I'm ready to fully retire, rather than trying to figure out a reduced schedule. We'll see!
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That's a good open question, anyone regret downshifting and gone back to 40 hours?
I wouldn't say I regret downshifting, but with so many well-paying WFH jobs available now, I am tempted to go back. Like perhaps I could make more money with minimal extra effort, compared to what I set up before COVID. On the flip side, I'm worried that my over-achieving, people-pleasing habits will kick in and then I'll be back in a stressful situation.
This is me -- I was planning to downshift next year, but I'm having second thoughts. I suspect I might feel more stress (trying to fit more work into less time) and I kind of love being "at work" and being able to do financial stuff and other computer work. I WFH, and I take plenty of breaks and workout at my (extended) lunch hour. I also get 29 days off per year (plus 10 holidays) and I am forced to take them (whereas in my last job I just banked them and got paid out). I'm very good about working no more than 40 hours a week and not checking email off hours. I just started this arrangement in August, and I'm thinking that I might just keep doing it until I'm ready to fully retire, rather than trying to figure out a reduced schedule. We'll see!
i am a manager so most of my work can be outsourced, i've also been very efficient my whole career and clearly had tons of time to post places like here. so when i cut my hours albeit i did have a couple things come up on my friday's off i did take care of as needed. It didnt increase my work load per hour. It just gave me a whole extra day off. which i'd never give back. We all know there are only so many productive hours in a week and its not even close to 40 so going to 4, 9s allowed me to take a day off a week for a 10% paycut.
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Got official approval to go to 4 days/week, so I'm effectively now a down-shifter. Every Friday off, 3-day weekends every week, and full benefits. What's not to love?
Eventually I hope to move to a 3-day per week schedule, but I'm a federal government employee and those are rather uncommon.
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Got official approval to go to 4 days/week, so I'm effectively now a down-shifter. Every Friday off, 3-day weekends every week, and full benefits. What's not to love?
Eventually I hope to move to a 3-day per week schedule, but I'm a federal government employee and those are rather uncommon.
A holiday weekend....every weekend. Sweet. Will they be tempted to add workload "density" to your 4 days in response?
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I have browsed through this thread over the time of its existence, but for some reason never responded to it (at least I don't think so, but I'm too lazy to go through all six pages to make sure).
I downshifted once in 2016, when I left my tenured full professor/department chair position at a four-year comprehensive university because it sucked. I won't get into all the ways it sucked, but suffice it to say I have not had one millisecond of regret since I drove away from that campus and never went back.
The "downshift" was that I went from that to full-time fiction writing. It was still a "full-time" job in my mind because I didn't have other employment, but I have not worked more than 35 hours a week since then, and these days work about 25-30. My plan is to do this for about five more years, but taper off even more, gradually.
To answer the questions in the OP:
- why you did it? See above paragraph about the suckage of academia
- what your downshift looks like? See above paragraph, lol
- what do you like about it? Um, everything? My favorite thing is that Sunday nights no longer send me into a funk, and I never have to get up in the morning and slog through a shower, getting ready, and a half-hour commute. Oh, and no more grading. Grading is the worst. And also, being my own boss, and having my time be my own. And getting to go on a relaxed morning walk every single day. Oh, and that we can take vacations any time of the year, instead of just summer or the the period between Christmas and about January 15. Really, there is so little that I don't prefer about this life.
- what isn't so awesome about it? Well, the self-employment thing does come with its own downside. I left academia because I was starting to feel like a slave to the job. And the concept of autonomy is a large part of the reason a lot of people are attracted to academia in the first place. I now have autonomy for sure, but it has been an adjustment to not push myself too hard and become a slave to my own self. I've gotten a lot better at that over the years.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
So, I quit my academic job at 49. That felt a lot like FIRE to me because my husband still had a job and I knew that if I never made another penny, we'd still be okay. Turned out, I was able to make more writing than I ever did at teaching, so in the end, I was able to retire my DH three years ago. Now he's retired, and I have a job where I can work part-time and make a full-time income. Since this job isn't particularly stressful, I'm content to do it basically like this for five more years, at which point I'll be 60. Then, my idea is I'll stop writing and then just manage my IP/marketing on about 10 hours a week. Or not. Who knows? The nice part is, it doesn't really matter. I can do what I want.
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Got official approval to go to 4 days/week, so I'm effectively now a down-shifter. Every Friday off, 3-day weekends every week, and full benefits. What's not to love?
Eventually I hope to move to a 3-day per week schedule, but I'm a federal government employee and those are rather uncommon.
A holiday weekend....every weekend. Sweet. Will they be tempted to add workload "density" to your 4 days in response?
Hopefully not! I have a really good supervisor. Plus, I've been in the same job for 4+ years and pretty much know the workload and the requirements. I actually volunteer for various things when I have extra time.
Really happy to have found MMM and this forum. It has literally changed my life.
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I've been following this thread for awhile, waiting for the day I could share my downshifting story. That day has come! This week, I put in notice to leave my full time family physician job.
why you did it?
Both my wife and I have been working 60 hour weeks with two young kids at home for 6 years. The juggling act was painful, and I could just see their childhood slipping by. As we had financially reached a point in which we could clearly coast-FI, and corporate medicine became increasingly stifling and insufferable, it became more a question of why not.
what your downshift looks like?
I will have an amalgam of per diem jobs. Planning to work 4 days per month for one clinic, and 3-4 days/month teaching. I'll have a handful of work from smaller projects on the side, but that's about it.
what do you like about it?
More time with the kids, more time by myself. Time to take on personal projects, get outdoors and live a bit. Common denominator = time.
what isn't so awesome about it?
Leaving my colleagues and patients. Severed personal relationships. Feeling as though I am neglecting my obligation to my community and society in a time of such need, but also realizing that one person cannot solve the world's problems.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I will work per diem, my wife will continue in her full time job, for about 2 years, after which we plan to move abroad for a few years.
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I've been following this thread for awhile, waiting for the day I could share my downshifting story. That day has come! This week, I put in notice to leave my full time family physician job.
why you did it?
Both my wife and I have been working 60 hour weeks with two young kids at home for 6 years. The juggling act was painful, and I could just see their childhood slipping by. As we had financially reached a point in which we could clearly coast-FI, and corporate medicine became increasingly stifling and insufferable, it became more a question of why not.
what your downshift looks like?
I will have an amalgam of per diem jobs. Planning to work 4 days per month for one clinic, and 3-4 days/month teaching. I'll have a handful of work from smaller projects on the side, but that's about it.
what do you like about it?
More time with the kids, more time by myself. Time to take on personal projects, get outdoors and live a bit. Common denominator = time.
what isn't so awesome about it?
Leaving my colleagues and patients. Severed personal relationships. Feeling as though I am neglecting my obligation to my community and society in a time of such need, but also realizing that one person cannot solve the world's problems.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I will work per diem, my wife will continue in her full time job, for about 2 years, after which we plan to move abroad for a few years.
Congrats, that sounds awesome. What I think I may like best about your plan is how its a couple of different income streams (and the hours even within the income streams seem controllable), so if in a year or more you decide one part takes up too much head space, time, or is just not as enjoyable anymore you can quit it without quitting the rest..i.e. your downshifting plan seems to have many gears to work with.
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I've been following this thread for awhile, waiting for the day I could share my downshifting story. That day has come! This week, I put in notice to leave my full time family physician job.
why you did it?
Both my wife and I have been working 60 hour weeks with two young kids at home for 6 years. The juggling act was painful, and I could just see their childhood slipping by. As we had financially reached a point in which we could clearly coast-FI, and corporate medicine became increasingly stifling and insufferable, it became more a question of why not.
what your downshift looks like?
I will have an amalgam of per diem jobs. Planning to work 4 days per month for one clinic, and 3-4 days/month teaching. I'll have a handful of work from smaller projects on the side, but that's about it.
what do you like about it?
More time with the kids, more time by myself. Time to take on personal projects, get outdoors and live a bit. Common denominator = time.
what isn't so awesome about it?
Leaving my colleagues and patients. Severed personal relationships. Feeling as though I am neglecting my obligation to my community and society in a time of such need, but also realizing that one person cannot solve the world's problems.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I will work per diem, my wife will continue in her full time job, for about 2 years, after which we plan to move abroad for a few years.
Welcome to the club. Now that's a downshift! Sounds wonderful compared to 60hr weeks. Hope it works out perfectly. Congrats.
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It seems like corporate everything is becoming increasingly stifling and insufferable. Surely there must be some way around this.
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It seems like corporate everything is becoming increasingly stifling and insufferable. Surely there must be some way around this.
This whole thread seems to be the way around this. It seems that for manufacturing and production driven fields there is a strong economy of scale and gained efficiencies. For fields where individuals have to do complex brain work it almost seems the inverse is true.... and ultimately terrible and stifling.
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@Glenstache that’s an insightful observation, and that’s definitely what I’m feeling. Very interesting.
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@Glenstache +1 on that. I also hadn't considered this perspective, but it makes sense. Cognitive fields by their nature require creativity and free-thinking. To try and homogenize this in a corporate setting is counter productive.
Thanks all for the congratulations and support.
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The juggling act was painful, and I could just see their childhood slipping by.
Absolutely this. You cant buy their childhood back after you've missed it.
Similar reason for me. I was always working to save up for something, covid caused me to stop and I could not remember what I was saving up for.
I'm now 4 months into a 3 day week now and its paradise. I have time and energy to spend reading with the kids etc, 2 spare days in the week to do other work and the weekends free and I'm not exhausted.
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I'm getting ready to put in a request to my employer to shift to 4 days a week schedule. Although I really enjoy the subject matter of my relatively new job (I joined the firm 14 months ago) and find my work colleagues and the work culture excellent, I'm running out of steam. I'm going on 58, I've been working full time with long hours (I'm a lawyer) almost non-stop (only one one-year break) for 30 years, and I've been the sole income earner in the household for many of those years.
I've realized that in the past couple of years I've lost my motivation to pursue my passions (photography and animal rescue). I need some time and psychological space to rekindle those interests.
We are comfortably FI but would like to pad the retirement budget a little more. Also, I do really like what I do and I get paid a LOT to do it. I just want to do less of it. I have a performance review coming up, and I also expect to hear from my bosses what their plan is in terms of adding more staff to my practice area. I'm aiming to make the request to go 80% by the end of Q1.
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I'm getting ready to put in a request to my employer to shift to 4 days a week schedule. Although I really enjoy the subject matter of my relatively new job (I joined the firm 14 months ago) and find my work colleagues and the work culture excellent, I'm running out of steam. I'm going on 58, I've been working full time with long hours (I'm a lawyer) almost non-stop (only one one-year break) for 30 years, and I've been the sole income earner in the household for many of those years.
I've realized that in the past couple of years I've lost my motivation to pursue my passions (photography and animal rescue). I need some time and psychological space to rekindle those interests.
We are comfortably FI but would like to pad the retirement budget a little more. Also, I do really like what I do and I get paid a LOT to do it. I just want to do less of it. I have a performance review coming up, and I also expect to hear from my bosses what their plan is in terms of adding more staff to my practice area. I'm aiming to make the request to go 80% by the end of Q1.
Well, my dream of asking to downshift had to get put on hold almost as soon as I made this post. But the reasons for downshifting soon (if not "tomorrow") have become more pressing.
In the past few months, my sister and I have been supporting my dad as he goes through bladder cancer treatment - and when I made the post above, he had finished chemo and radiation and had come through the treatment better than expected. We don't know if he's clear of cancer yet (we'll find out in a month or so), but at least the treatment didn't kill him or completely wipe him out.
A few days after I made the post above, my stepmother began to experience such excruciating pain in her chest and back that she had to go to the ER. She had been experiencing some pain in the past few months but her chest X-ray had been clear in December and the doctors had diagnosed her with a spinal fracture relating to osteoporosis.
It turns out that she the melanoma she had been treated for in 2020 had metastasized EVERYWHERE, very quickly, and she now has cancer in her liver, spine, lungs and brain. She was told she has weeks to a few months to live.
So now, her two adult children (who are juggling childcare plus difficult job situations and/or health problems) and my sister and I are supporting my stepmother and dad as they navigate this transition. My dad and stepmother are financially on very solid ground and we live in Canada, so thank goodness healthcare is relatively inexpensive and MAID (medical assistance in dying) is available. There is a lot of grieving going on, but there are financial cushions and compassionate systems in place to make this diffcult process easier.
But now I'm balancing my work with the need to fly cross-country every few weeks to provide various kinds of support. I'm glad for the opportunity to do so, and I'm also glad that my employer is very understanding and has given me the flexibility to work wherever and whenever I want - or to not work if I choose to do so.
So, for now, I'm working full-time when I'm at home (but with lighter expectations regarding time-sensitive or stressful work) and part-time when I'm in B.C. I anticipate that I'll need to take some bereavement leave later this spring to help my dad. But for now, it's not practicable to shift to a formal 4-days a week schedule. And my high income is helping cover the unexpected costs associated with frequent travel etc.
At the same time, my motivation to achieve better work-life balance is strong than ever. My own mother died at a relatively young age (67), very soon after she retired from work. I am going to downshift and then retire when I'm still healthy enough to enjoy the time I have left.
So, now my plan is to reconsider the 4-day schedule either in Q3 or Q4 depending on how our family situation evolves in the next few months.
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I'm getting ready to put in a request to my employer to shift to 4 days a week schedule. Although I really enjoy the subject matter of my relatively new job (I joined the firm 14 months ago) and find my work colleagues and the work culture excellent, I'm running out of steam. I'm going on 58, I've been working full time with long hours (I'm a lawyer) almost non-stop (only one one-year break) for 30 years, and I've been the sole income earner in the household for many of those years.
I've realized that in the past couple of years I've lost my motivation to pursue my passions (photography and animal rescue). I need some time and psychological space to rekindle those interests.
We are comfortably FI but would like to pad the retirement budget a little more. Also, I do really like what I do and I get paid a LOT to do it. I just want to do less of it. I have a performance review coming up, and I also expect to hear from my bosses what their plan is in terms of adding more staff to my practice area. I'm aiming to make the request to go 80% by the end of Q1.
Well, my dream of asking to downshift had to get put on hold almost as soon as I made this post. But the reasons for downshifting soon (if not "tomorrow") have become more pressing.
In the past few months, my sister and I have been supporting my dad as he goes through bladder cancer treatment - and when I made the post above, he had finished chemo and radiation and had come through the treatment better than expected. We don't know if he's clear of cancer yet (we'll find out in a month or so), but at least the treatment didn't kill him or completely wipe him out.
A few days after I made the post above, my stepmother began to experience such excruciating pain in her chest and back that she had to go to the ER. She had been experiencing some pain in the past few months but her chest X-ray had been clear in December and the doctors had diagnosed her with a spinal fracture relating to osteoporosis.
It turns out that she the melanoma she had been treated for in 2020 had metastasized EVERYWHERE, very quickly, and she now has cancer in her liver, spine, lungs and brain. She was told she has weeks to a few months to live.
So now, her two adult children (who are juggling childcare plus difficult job situations and/or health problems) and my sister and I are supporting my stepmother and dad as they navigate this transition. My dad and stepmother are financially on very solid ground and we live in Canada, so thank goodness healthcare is relatively inexpensive and MAID (medical assistance in dying) is available. There is a lot of grieving going on, but there are financial cushions and compassionate systems in place to make this diffcult process easier.
But now I'm balancing my work with the need to fly cross-country every few weeks to provide various kinds of support. I'm glad for the opportunity to do so, and I'm also glad that my employer is very understanding and has given me the flexibility to work wherever and whenever I want - or to not work if I choose to do so.
So, for now, I'm working full-time when I'm at home (but with lighter expectations regarding time-sensitive or stressful work) and part-time when I'm in B.C. I anticipate that I'll need to take some bereavement leave later this spring to help my dad. But for now, it's not practicable to shift to a formal 4-days a week schedule. And my high income is helping cover the unexpected costs associated with frequent travel etc.
At the same time, my motivation to achieve better work-life balance is strong than ever. My own mother died at a relatively young age (67), very soon after she retired from work. I am going to downshift and then retire when I'm still healthy enough to enjoy the time I have left.
So, now my plan is to reconsider the 4-day schedule either in Q3 or Q4 depending on how our family situation evolves in the next few months.
I'm so sorry to hear the difficult medical news in your family. That is truly difficult. I'm glad you have the resources and support to have a difficult situation not be even more difficult.
Your story resonates with me for a number of reasons. My mother was diagnosed with ALS at 65 within months of having retired. She still managed to do a lot of her retirement plans, but obviously with much diminished health and capacity. It is a big motivator for me to downshift now and enjoy life when able. Having had surgery to remove melanoma a couple of years ago myself, your post is an additional reminder to enjoy while I can.
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@Anon-E-Mouze, I am so very sorry for all you & your family are dealing with. As if one medical crisis weren’t enough, to have two such serious matters at virtually the same time must be incredibly difficult. Please don’t forget to take care of yourself, as much as you can.
Out of curiosity, may I ask what treatment your stepmother previously had for the melanoma? Had it been at a stage that required chemo or radiation?
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@Anon-E-Mouze, I am so very sorry for all you & your family are dealing with. As if one medical crisis weren’t enough, to have two such serious matters at virtually the same time must be incredibly difficult. Please don’t forget to take care of yourself, as much as you can.
Out of curiosity, may I ask what treatment your stepmother previously had for the melanoma? Had it been at a stage that required chemo or radiation?
She had surgery and was advised that everything was clear, and that no chemo or radiation was needed.
Adding to the family health saga, my sister (who was doing the lion's share of the caregiving, because she lives the closest and also just retired from a 30-year nursing career) had her own medical emergency in mid-January, while my dad was undergoing treatment. She had to have emergency life-saving surgery for a bowel obstruction, with her condition going from "uncomfortable' to "life-threatening" over the course of a couple of days. (Thankfully, she went to "her own" hospital's ER, where she's well-known. She got seen relatively quickly and then whisked almost straight into surgery.)
And while my own situation is trivial in comparison, I've been dealing with some difficult dental issues, which I'd stupidly put off during COVID, and now I've had one root canal with another on the agenda. So I'm "looking forward" to putting my company-provided dental insurance to good use in the next year or so before I retire.
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Oh gosh, I am so very sorry. What a difficult time you all are going through. Hoping things get better.
Thanks for the info on your stepmom. I asked because I’ve had melanoma twice, both requiring only surgery and no further treatment. What your stepmom is going through is my worst fear.
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Well, my dream of asking to downshift had to get put on hold almost as soon as I made this post. But the reasons for downshifting soon (if not "tomorrow") have become more pressing.
In the past few months, my sister and I have been supporting my dad as he goes through bladder cancer treatment - and when I made the post above, he had finished chemo and radiation and had come through the treatment better than expected. We don't know if he's clear of cancer yet (we'll find out in a month or so), but at least the treatment didn't kill him or completely wipe him out.
A few days after I made the post above, my stepmother began to experience such excruciating pain in her chest and back that she had to go to the ER. She had been experiencing some pain in the past few months but her chest X-ray had been clear in December and the doctors had diagnosed her with a spinal fracture relating to osteoporosis.
It turns out that she the melanoma she had been treated for in 2020 had metastasized EVERYWHERE, very quickly, and she now has cancer in her liver, spine, lungs and brain. She was told she has weeks to a few months to live.
So now, her two adult children (who are juggling childcare plus difficult job situations and/or health problems) and my sister and I are supporting my stepmother and dad as they navigate this transition. My dad and stepmother are financially on very solid ground and we live in Canada, so thank goodness healthcare is relatively inexpensive and MAID (medical assistance in dying) is available. There is a lot of grieving going on, but there are financial cushions and compassionate systems in place to make this diffcult process easier.
But now I'm balancing my work with the need to fly cross-country every few weeks to provide various kinds of support. I'm glad for the opportunity to do so, and I'm also glad that my employer is very understanding and has given me the flexibility to work wherever and whenever I want - or to not work if I choose to do so.
So, for now, I'm working full-time when I'm at home (but with lighter expectations regarding time-sensitive or stressful work) and part-time when I'm in B.C. I anticipate that I'll need to take some bereavement leave later this spring to help my dad. But for now, it's not practicable to shift to a formal 4-days a week schedule. And my high income is helping cover the unexpected costs associated with frequent travel etc.
At the same time, my motivation to achieve better work-life balance is strong than ever. My own mother died at a relatively young age (67), very soon after she retired from work. I am going to downshift and then retire when I'm still healthy enough to enjoy the time I have left.
So, now my plan is to reconsider the 4-day schedule either in Q3 or Q4 depending on how our family situation evolves in the next few months.
Damn. I'm really sorry. I hope things work out for you guys the best they can under the circumstances. A coworker's husband, who's 56, was just diagnosed with stage 4 lymphoma. Life seems like a run through a pinball machine sometimes.
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Dodged a bullet last week. Came into work to learn that the coworker that alternates work weeks with me had decided to reduce to PRN status the week before. Two of the 3 supervisors above me had wanted to merge our shifts back into 1 FT position. Lucky for me, the third is the top dog, and she decided to keep it as is until I leave it :). Still, it was concerning to know this was all talked about and decided before I even knew any of this was going down. They sat me down and asked me if I'd consider coming back FT. Told them I wasn't interested, but if I had to, I'd start unwinding my huge pool of pto and retire earlier than I had planned. I love my leadership, but they seemed genuinely perplexed that I didn't want to be FT, working 3-11:30pm M-F.
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DH has finally had his downshifting confirmed. His income will certainly pay the bills for another year, and there will even be some additional savings. But I am kind of freaking out trying to optimize those savings the same way we have for the last decade, now that we won't have enough income to do everything. This is ridiculous. The order of investments just won't make or break us over the course of one year. I need to chill. Focus on moving out of the condo and other more immediate things ...but those pretty VTI shares are looking so cheap!!
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Loved binge-reading through this thread!
I had planned to retire this July but with all the uncertainty around the markets and real estate (which is the bulk of our 'stache) I was getting a little nervous. When I told my company my plans they asked if full remote would make me change my mind...It suddenly popped in my head to ask for remote, three days a week as well as flexibility around the travelling we had already planned on doing over this next year. The director waved her hand and said not a problem!
We're still formalizing it, but fingers crossed it will all go through. It will be perfect for me - and a nice transition. It gives us time should things go south so we don't have to sell anything in a deep downturn... no commuting, and best of all four day weekends every weekend! I don't know why I didn't think to ask for this in the first place!!
Truth be told I'm not sure they would have agreed to this let alone suggested it but for the unusually huge turnover our IT shop has been having (very unusual for them). I have a lot of history in my head and my absence would have been noticed.
Lucky Me!
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DH has finally had his downshifting confirmed. His income will certainly pay the bills for another year, and there will even be some additional savings. But I am kind of freaking out trying to optimize those savings the same way we have for the last decade, now that we won't have enough income to do everything. This is ridiculous. The order of investments just won't make or break us over the course of one year. I need to chill. Focus on moving out of the condo and other more immediate things ...but those pretty VTI shares are looking so cheap!!
Congrats on turning the page! Yes, chill out :). Enjoy being able to focus on those other things. I feel ya though....there's a certain MMM itch you get when stocks have sale tags attached.
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Loved binge-reading through this thread!
I had planned to retire this July but with all the uncertainty around the markets and real estate (which is the bulk of our 'stache) I was getting a little nervous. When I told my company my plans they asked if full remote would make me change my mind...It suddenly popped in my head to ask for remote, three days a week as well as flexibility around the travelling we had already planned on doing over this next year. The director waved her hand and said not a problem!
We're still formalizing it, but fingers crossed it will all go through. It will be perfect for me - and a nice transition. It gives us time should things go south so we don't have to sell anything in a deep downturn... no commuting, and best of all four day weekends every weekend! I don't know why I didn't think to ask for this in the first place!!
Truth be told I'm not sure they would have agreed to this let alone suggested it but for the unusually huge turnover our IT shop has been having (very unusual for them). I have a lot of history in my head and my absence would have been noticed.
Lucky Me!
Sweet. Great time to be negotiating. That's going to be a nice setup, and a great bridge to full ER. Let us know how it goes!
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Happy to report that as of today, I joined the ranks of downshifters.
We are at 85% of the magic number, and it would make sense to tough it out to the full FIRE. But COVID and the war in the place I'm from made me
a) think that the bright future isn't necessarily assured. Might as well live now.
b) less able to concentrate on work for 8 hours every day. Less able to concentrate in general.
So I switched to a contractor's position, with an understanding that I will work close to 4 hour days. I would prefer a 3-day week, but my role is partially support, and it's not really an option. Got a raise to compensate for the loss of benefits, and then a bit on top of that. Plus, my wife moved to a significantly better (and also part-time) job. With that, our income may not be affected all that much.
It was surprisingly easy, and my employer was very supportive. I'm genuinely excited.
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Congratulations @GodlessCommie !
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Happy to report that as of today, I joined the ranks of downshifters.
We are at 85% of the magic number, and it would make sense to tough it out to the full FIRE. But COVID and the war in the place I'm from made me
a) think that the bright future isn't necessarily assured. Might as well live now.
b) less able to concentrate on work for 8 hours every day. Less able to concentrate in general.
So I switched to a contractor's position, with an understanding that I will work close to 4 hour days. I would prefer a 3-day week, but my role is partially support, and it's not really an option. Got a raise to compensate for the loss of benefits, and then a bit on top of that. Plus, my wife moved to a significantly better (and also part-time) job. With that, our income may not be affected all that much.
It was surprisingly easy, and my employer was very supportive. I'm genuinely excited.
Awesome. Sounds like a great deal.
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I'm getting ready to put in a request to my employer to shift to 4 days a week schedule. Although I really enjoy the subject matter of my relatively new job (I joined the firm 14 months ago) and find my work colleagues and the work culture excellent, I'm running out of steam. I'm going on 58, I've been working full time with long hours (I'm a lawyer) almost non-stop (only one one-year break) for 30 years, and I've been the sole income earner in the household for many of those years.
I've realized that in the past couple of years I've lost my motivation to pursue my passions (photography and animal rescue). I need some time and psychological space to rekindle those interests.
We are comfortably FI but would like to pad the retirement budget a little more. Also, I do really like what I do and I get paid a LOT to do it. I just want to do less of it. I have a performance review coming up, and I also expect to hear from my bosses what their plan is in terms of adding more staff to my practice area. I'm aiming to make the request to go 80% by the end of Q1.
Well, my dream of asking to downshift had to get put on hold almost as soon as I made this post. But the reasons for downshifting soon (if not "tomorrow") have become more pressing.
In the past few months, my sister and I have been supporting my dad as he goes through bladder cancer treatment - and when I made the post above, he had finished chemo and radiation and had come through the treatment better than expected. We don't know if he's clear of cancer yet (we'll find out in a month or so), but at least the treatment didn't kill him or completely wipe him out.
A few days after I made the post above, my stepmother began to experience such excruciating pain in her chest and back that she had to go to the ER. She had been experiencing some pain in the past few months but her chest X-ray had been clear in December and the doctors had diagnosed her with a spinal fracture relating to osteoporosis.
It turns out that she the melanoma she had been treated for in 2020 had metastasized EVERYWHERE, very quickly, and she now has cancer in her liver, spine, lungs and brain. She was told she has weeks to a few months to live.
So now, her two adult children (who are juggling childcare plus difficult job situations and/or health problems) and my sister and I are supporting my stepmother and dad as they navigate this transition. My dad and stepmother are financially on very solid ground and we live in Canada, so thank goodness healthcare is relatively inexpensive and MAID (medical assistance in dying) is available. There is a lot of grieving going on, but there are financial cushions and compassionate systems in place to make this diffcult process easier.
But now I'm balancing my work with the need to fly cross-country every few weeks to provide various kinds of support. I'm glad for the opportunity to do so, and I'm also glad that my employer is very understanding and has given me the flexibility to work wherever and whenever I want - or to not work if I choose to do so.
So, for now, I'm working full-time when I'm at home (but with lighter expectations regarding time-sensitive or stressful work) and part-time when I'm in B.C. I anticipate that I'll need to take some bereavement leave later this spring to help my dad. But for now, it's not practicable to shift to a formal 4-days a week schedule. And my high income is helping cover the unexpected costs associated with frequent travel etc.
At the same time, my motivation to achieve better work-life balance is strong than ever. My own mother died at a relatively young age (67), very soon after she retired from work. I am going to downshift and then retire when I'm still healthy enough to enjoy the time I have left.
So, now my plan is to reconsider the 4-day schedule either in Q3 or Q4 depending on how our family situation evolves in the next few months.
2022 was a hell of a year (with an emphasis on hell) for the reasons (and more) noted above, and now it's January 2023 and I'm very burned out notwithstanding that my employer (as an institution), my managers and my colleagues bent over backward to provide me with the flexibility, support and compassion I needed to get through 2022. And I still enjoy my work, most of the time, and I'm not ready to quit altogether despite the burnout.
So I put on my big-girl pants and went to the person in charge of legal professionals, and then to one of my 5 (!) bosses and asked for a reduction in hours. Not only did they give me exactly what I asked for, effective as soon as I wanted to implement the change, they told me they understood, that they supported me in making this decision for quality of life reasons and that they didn't want to lose me. The immediate manager I spoke to (I report to a group of 5 practice leaders) actually said he was honoured and grateful that I felt comfortable speaking to him about this and welcomed the opportunity to work with me to communicate my request to the other practice leaders and then implement the plan for change. (He took care of the discussion with other practice leaders and reported back to me within 48 hours.)
I had told them that I wanted to reduce my hours to 90% effective immediately (i.e. 9 out of 10 days) and stay at that level for a couple of months (probably until the end of March) while I figure out with others how to shift some responsibilities and also complete a major project. And then I'll shift to 80% (4 out of 5 days) on April 1. I'll stay at full pay and vacation accrual until April 1.
I know that going down to 80% might not seem like a lot but I've been working in a profession (law and regulatory affairs) for 35+ years where 50+ hour (albeit well-compensated) work weeks are the norm.
As for the burnout, I'm also planning to take advantage of our very generous mental health reimbursement benefit (as well as our wellness benefit and full reimbursement for an executive medical) this year.
I hope the reduction to 80% will enable me to continue enjoying my work while enabling me to engage in some of the activities that make me "me' :)
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Good to hear from you and I'm sorry 2022 was so awful. I'm glad you are getting to shift to 80% even if a bit slower than you anticipated. I shifted to 60% 2 years ago now (also later than I planned but due to Covid rather than family issues) and it was a big improvement to have time during the week to get on with chores/lifemin, so weekends could be properly family time (I was about to type "relaxing" but not sure that is quite the right word!) A big impact was just that I started to get enough sleep more often than not, which sounds like a small thing but truly is huge especially when you are trying to come back from burnout.
I would just encourage you to take it gently and to cut back your hours harder if you feel it is working for you but your 1-2 free days per fortnight go faster than you think... sounds like your employers are on board and you have a good team around you. Personally for me I like baby-steps and trying things out before I take a big leap, but my 60% has now turned into about 10-20% so for me the part time shift turned out to be part of a bigger move, rather than a temporary breather!
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2022 was a hell of a year (with an emphasis on hell) for the reasons (and more) noted above, and now it's January 2023 and I'm very burned out notwithstanding that my employer (as an institution), my managers and my colleagues bent over backward to provide me with the flexibility, support and compassion I needed to get through 2022. And I still enjoy my work, most of the time, and I'm not ready to quit altogether despite the burnout.
So I put on my big-girl pants and went to the person in charge of legal professionals, and then to one of my 5 (!) bosses and asked for a reduction in hours. Not only did they give me exactly what I asked for, effective as soon as I wanted to implement the change, they told me they understood, that they supported me in making this decision for quality of life reasons and that they didn't want to lose me. The immediate manager I spoke to (I report to a group of 5 practice leaders) actually said he was honoured and grateful that I felt comfortable speaking to him about this and welcomed the opportunity to work with me to communicate my request to the other practice leaders and then implement the plan for change. (He took care of the discussion with other practice leaders and reported back to me within 48 hours.)
I had told them that I wanted to reduce my hours to 90% effective immediately (i.e. 9 out of 10 days) and stay at that level for a couple of months (probably until the end of March) while I figure out with others how to shift some responsibilities and also complete a major project. And then I'll shift to 80% (4 out of 5 days) on April 1. I'll stay at full pay and vacation accrual until April 1.
I know that going down to 80% might not seem like a lot but I've been working in a profession (law and regulatory affairs) for 35+ years where 50+ hour (albeit well-compensated) work weeks are the norm.
As for the burnout, I'm also planning to take advantage of our very generous mental health reimbursement benefit (as well as our wellness benefit and full reimbursement for an executive medical) this year.
I hope the reduction to 80% will enable me to continue enjoying my work while enabling me to engage in some of the activities that make me "me' :)
Been a long time coming. Glad you're finally there! I delayed going PT for several months when my dad passed away suddenly and my mom's financial status was in limbo. So, I feel ya. I've never heard anyone do anything but rave about going to 80%. I hope that holds true for you as well. Maybe this is the first step to 70%, 60%, 50%..... :)
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I know that going down to 80% might not seem like a lot
Oh it's a lot. I did this a few years ago and it's significant. The workweek doesn't really feel much shorter, because it's only 20% shorter, but weekends are way longer and feel much more restful, because they're 50% longer! I didn't really think of it like that at first, until I switched and was trying to figure out why it felt so different. (It's of course only like this if your extra day off is Mon or Fri. Midweek breaks I can't speak to).
Congrats on finally getting there, and condolences on such a hard past year.
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Today was the start of 6 weeks paid leave while I figure out how to downshift or find a coast fire job. My work situation is toxic and cultish, so I'm going to avoid going back unless it's in a very different job.
I'm starting to feel excited about step 1. Here's to getting step 2 figured out before the 6 weeks is up.
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Today was the start of 6 weeks paid leave while I figure out how to downshift or find a coast fire job. My work situation is toxic and cultish, so I'm going to avoid going back unless it's in a very different job.
I'm starting to feel excited about step 1. Here's to getting step 2 figured out before the 6 weeks is up.
Congrats and enjoy the six weeks. Keep us updated, I'm curious to hear how it goes.
I was thinking about posting to this thread, so it's timely that it was bumped. DW and I determined we have enough to RE almost a year ago. At the time, we both decided to keep working for three years to pad the stash and ensure our affairs are in order before pulling the plug. She's still very much plugged into her role, but I've completely let go of most of the baggage around mine. I used to be one of the first guys online and working and one of the last to hang it up for the night. I also spent a fair amount of time doing things that were not officially mine to do - promoting the work our team is doing, working with other teams to ensure enough work is in the pipeline, troubleshooting other people's stuff, etc, etc.
That ship has sailed.
My mornings are now much more chill. Time previously spent doing damage control is now spent having coffee on the couch with my dog. I'm no longer the last one to sign off. I no longer feel the need to respond to every email or IM immediately. I take time to think about the best way to do something instead of the fastest way and have no problem punting requests to someone else. I have engineered my position in such a way that I take on the work I want to do and have no problem telling my boss that I'd rather not do something. I don't freak out if our team misses a deadline. I don't work nights or weekends. One of our executive leaders was using terms like "maximize efficiencies" and "reduce overhead" in a meeting today. This is corporate speak for "shit will soon hit the fan". That would have freaked me out earlier in my career and caused me to crank up an already hectic pace to avoid being on The List, but now I would gladly volunteer for a package (probably not gonna happen). My wife has even noticed the change. I'm sleeping better (but not great, stressing less and taking more PTO. My job is now something I do for money, not a lifestyle.
I'm still full time, but I've completely downshifted.
It's not all sunshine and unicorns. Parts of last year sucked, both personally and financially. That being said, all is well in our household and I'm optimistic about the next two years.
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I think I may now belong in this thread :) I quit my job last year with the intention to FIRE, and a few months later (just as I was getting used to it and not freaking out that we didn't have enough money!) my old boss called up and asked if I could come back in some capacity. So now I'm working PT as a contract worker. Initially it seemed like it was maybe only going to be a month or so of work, but now it has turned into something with more of a multi-year potential.
- why you did it?
I guess for me the question is why I went back PT rather than staying FIREd. Answer: I actually quite liked aspects of my old job, most of which are retained with the PT option (decent coworkers, interesting/meaningful things to work on, good pay relative to work intensity). I disliked other aspects: commuting (this got dropped in the pandemic and will now continue for me), having to live in a VHCOL area (job was in SF Bay Area, company policy is that my old role could not be held by someone out of state, but contracting is apparently a way to get around that policy). I will admit also that while I was not particularly worried about money by the time this opportunity came up...having some money coming in does help with not stressing about inflation or unexpected large expenses.
- what your downshift looks like?
Basically I'm now able to fit work around my son's school schedule without it being a big juggling act. He goes to school, I work for 4-6 hours and then still have time for exercise, making dinner, etc. He has a relatively late school start this year and working FT I would have been having to plug into work an hour or so before he's due to leave. Now we spend that time together reading or doing other activities and I'm not constantly checking my phone. Another plus is that the contract position does not come with a company smart phone, so it's much easier to really step away from the job outside of work hours.
- what do you like about it?
I like having some portion of my day that uses some of my intellectual skills. I also definitely like having the security of some extra money, with considerably less stress. DH has also retired now so I like that we have time to do things like weekday "dates".
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Definitely being in the contract position means there's some potential for more boring work that nobody else wants to touch gets shoved on me. On the other hand, I have a lot more flexibility to only do as much of that as I have time/capacity for on any given day.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Back when DH and I first started working towards FIRE, I sort of had this idea in my head that our 30s would be for accumulating (work FT and stash as much as we could), 40s would be more of a "coast" period (work enough to cover expenses and leave the stash alone to work some compounding magic), and that 50s onward would be for complete retirement. As we got later into our 30s I was realizing more and more that the idea of just working enough to cover expenses might be tricky to execute and was getting myself okay with the idea of just being FIREd. Now it seems like maybe I'll be able to go back to the original plan, at least for a while. I do kind of get the sense that my boss would eventually like me to come back FT but I am not interested in the role I think he might have in mind, as it's really more like a 2-3 person job the company has kept shoving onto one person (though there seems to be some recognition that it's not sustainable to keep it as a one-person job). So I plan to continue this for as long as I can keep it PT and still have time to focus on my main priority right now, which is parenting. I do not want to enroll my son in before/after school care or have to put him in full-day camps for the majority of summer break, his school day is long enough as is. Overall I am currently looking forward to being able to continue with a more relaxed pace of home life.
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I downshifted Jan 1, 2023. Didn't think I'd be in this position but it's pretty great so far.
- Why you did it?
I had some ambitions of FIRE'ing altogether at the end of this year but it became pretty clear over the past couple of years that wasn't going to happen. A little bit of real inflation, little bit of lifestyle inflation, and a little bit of considering starting a bigger family have all been drivers. On somewhat of a whim last year I decided that part time work still gets me most things I want while increasing my quality of living substantially. I ran the idea by my boss and HR and luckily found out most of the logistics work in my favor so it was a bit of a no brainer.
- What your downshift looks like?
I work in a closed space with limited outside interaction and was doing a 4-10 work week which drove me insane. Now I do a M-W 9-9-7 type week on average. I'm contractually obligated to do 25 hours but can do as many as I want at the same pay rate. I wake up later (no alarm) and leave at my leisure. I've only had 4 or 5 actual free Thursdays so far and I've spent them catching up on sleep, video games, and lingering house chores. I suspect it will stay that way for a while until I feel all caught up. Then I'll transition to some kind of side hustle project.
- What do you like about it?
I feel like I'm getting a decent amount of sleep for the first time in years. I'm someone who needs at least 8 hours per night but does better on 9. My wife works from home and so I get an extra day with her at least in my vicinity on Thurs. That extra day of laziness (or even yard work) does wonders for the social energy I've had on the weekends. We've been entertaining family/friends/weddings almost every weekend since the New Year and normally I'd be a cranky bitch by now but I'm actually doing decent on social batteries.
- What isn't so awesome about it?
Literally the only downside so far is I'm not saving as much. My boss has even offered me a promotion later this year that would allow me to stay part time which is bonkers. I'm not sure I want the extra responsibility but the pay increase would put me at parity with what I was making full time 5 years ago.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Just playing it by ear right now. My wife and I need to make a child-having decision before the end of the year. It wouldn't change my downshifted schedule but would probably prolong me being in this position until a true FIRE scenario. If we gave up her salary and added in child costs we would reduce our savings to <20k/year but if the market grows even reasonably I think we'd be in a comfortable FIRE position within 5 years.
My largest concern is getting laid off. My industry is due for a down cycle IMO and I have no feeling for where I would be in the pecking order. If I had to guess, low, but the conditions might necessitate coming back in full time. I'd be hard pressed to find a part time opportunity like this at another company I haven't built up a repertoire with.
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Thanks for including your examples. I think I'm close to a NW level where I'd be comfortable with a downshift (depending on the day's market ups and downs, so who knows how close I actually am?), and these are like food for my endurance, sustaining me. I'll be sure to fill out the form myself to help others, too, once I've crossed that first line.
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Thanks for including your examples. I think I'm close to a NW level where I'd be comfortable with a downshift (depending on the day's market ups and downs, so who knows how close I actually am?), and these are like food for my endurance, sustaining me. I'll be sure to fill out the form myself to help others, too, once I've crossed that first line.
What is your level where you'd feel comfortable? My partner and I waited until we had about 20x our planned spending, and really downshifted after hitting 25x. We had reasons for working a little while past 25x, but my downshifting experience was such that I wish we had dropped to part-time at 15x or maybe even 10x our planned FIRE expenses. For us, downshifting was so much better than full-time that we wish we had done it sooner. And it doesn't slow down progress towards full-FIRE as much as I expected.
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What is your level where you'd feel comfortable? My partner and I waited until we had about 20x our planned spending, and really downshifted after hitting 25x. We had reasons for working a little while past 25x, but my downshifting experience was such that I wish we had dropped to part-time at 15x or maybe even 10x our planned FIRE expenses. For us, downshifting was so much better than full-time that we wish we had done it sooner. And it doesn't slow down progress towards full-FIRE as much as I expected.
I'll second this, and so many others have said the same thing after making the leap. I took a 20% paycut to go to 4 days, which after taxes is more like a 10% paycut, but the quality of life improvement was sooooo much. I wish I had had the guts to do it sooner.
Another way to think of it, if it helps, is to think about in terms of your savings rate, not your stash. If it only drops your take-home by 10%, what does that do to your savings rate? Is it still respectable? If so, F it, just do it. That's what finally convinced me. My savings rate was so stupidly high, I was just like 'wtf am I doing? why am I working so much?'.
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What is your level where you'd feel comfortable? My partner and I waited until we had about 20x our planned spending, and really downshifted after hitting 25x. We had reasons for working a little while past 25x, but my downshifting experience was such that I wish we had dropped to part-time at 15x or maybe even 10x our planned FIRE expenses. For us, downshifting was so much better than full-time that we wish we had done it sooner. And it doesn't slow down progress towards full-FIRE as much as I expected.
I'll second this, and so many others have said the same thing after making the leap. I took a 20% paycut to go to 4 days, which after taxes is more like a 10% paycut, but the quality of life improvement was sooooo much. I wish I had had the guts to do it sooner.
Another way to think of it, if it helps, is to think about in terms of your savings rate, not your stash. If it only drops your take-home by 10%, what does that do to your savings rate? Is it still respectable? If so, F it, just do it. That's what finally convinced me. My savings rate was so stupidly high, I was just like 'wtf am I doing? why am I working so much?'.
Thanks for the insightful comments, you two. I'm really receptive to this message right now, after just finishing listening to Die with Zero, which is mostly about maximizing life rather than wealth. I'm 52, and trying to time it so that I can still FatFIRE before 60, and am plotting out the different expected return scenarios to try to satisfy both CoastFIRE and still retiring early enough to call it early.
The other thing is that my wife is starting to think about getting back in the job market. If she gets hired within the next year (after SAHM for several years), this could accelerate everything on the schedule!
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I'll second this, and so many others have said the same thing after making the leap. I took a 20% paycut to go to 4 days, which after taxes is more like a 10% paycut, but the quality of life improvement was sooooo much. I wish I had had the guts to do it sooner.
Another way to think of it, if it helps, is to think about in terms of your savings rate, not your stash. If it only drops your take-home by 10%, what does that do to your savings rate? Is it still respectable? If so, F it, just do it. That's what finally convinced me. My savings rate was so stupidly high, I was just like 'wtf am I doing? why am I working so much?'.
I'm replying mostly so I can look back at my own words at some point and eventually (hopefully) find the courage to permanently downshift. I've long used similar reasoning to what's written above to persuade the logical side of my brain that downshifting is not risky after saving 20x expenses.
Despite saving what feels like an absurd amount these days -- about $70k/yr pre-tax and $30k/yr after-tax -- the OMY side of the equation keeps winning out due to high inflation, a retirement portfolio that has stalled over the last year, and a little bit of lifestyle inflation.
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I'll second this, and so many others have said the same thing after making the leap. I took a 20% paycut to go to 4 days, which after taxes is more like a 10% paycut, but the quality of life improvement was sooooo much. I wish I had had the guts to do it sooner.
Another way to think of it, if it helps, is to think about in terms of your savings rate, not your stash. If it only drops your take-home by 10%, what does that do to your savings rate? Is it still respectable? If so, F it, just do it. That's what finally convinced me. My savings rate was so stupidly high, I was just like 'wtf am I doing? why am I working so much?'.
I'm replying mostly so I can look back at my own words at some point and eventually (hopefully) find the courage to permanently downshift. I've long used similar reasoning to what's written above to persuade the logical side of my brain that downshifting is not risky after saving 20x expenses.
Despite saving what feels like an absurd amount these days -- about $70k/yr pre-tax and $30k/yr after-tax -- the OMY side of the equation keeps winning out due to high inflation, a retirement portfolio that has stalled over the last year, and a little bit of lifestyle inflation.
Signature checks out.
If you have 20x desired yearly spending saved, why not try 4-day weeks?
Not much to lose, I mean 20% less pay for 50% longer weekends, and a time to fi that I would bet is made only a couple (much more bearable) months longer.
What's not to like?
I'm at around 20x barebones (wouldn't go without a roof and wouldn't starve, with utilities and internet kept running) and I'm already using up accrued PTO to try 4 workdays a week (although not all of them weekdays, and not all 8 hour workdays, but that's always been the case for me).
Started it only recently, so can't really comment on it yet.
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Signature checks out.
lol :-)
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Hi Downshifters! An aspiring downshifter (maybe) here.
I’m a little bit cautious and a nervous stock market investor. I was a mortgage over-payer for years and found MMM a couple of years ago aged 40. The main thing I learned from the blog wasn’t really frugality but not being scared to invest. So I have no debt (yay) and have invested 80%+ for the last two years (yay) but am scared of a crash (boo) and how to approach the next part of my FIRE journey...........
This is a really useful thread. I was really inspired by happy’s story among others and was hoping to feel emboldened by those actively living the part time life.
It would be interesting to know what gave people the confidence to make the move to part time. It may have been a partners income for example. I’m single so don’t have that. I’m struggling a little to see through the full time to FIRE versus part time fog, and understand what level of expenses is good enough to have saved in order to achieve FIRE inevitability, allowing part time to be a sensible option.
Phew, I can’t believe this post was over three and a half years ago. Where on earth does the time go! After five and a half years pursuing FI I’ve finally summoned the courage to go part-time. I’ve received considerable help from the forum and this thread is a good one with lots of great stories.
Why you did it?
(https://i.imgur.com/uIAdGoJl.png)
I appreciate the average worker happiness is impossible for me to know but I’ve felt extremely lucky over the years. When I think of my working feel good factor having worked at the same company since I left Uni, I just feel so incredibly grateful. I felt valued, part of a really close knit team, and really well supported. We had a department subculture that just rocked. I’m sure I had above average happiness in my workplace for a sustained period of time. In truth I probably took this a bit for granted. I knew no different, and of course why would I think about the possibility of that ending. I faced a few knocks to my work feel good factor after a minor re-org and the Global Financial Crisis. As bad as the GFC was it didn’t really impact my working environment though and I bounced back pretty quickly in terms of my working feel good factor.
As with life in general, so much is out of our control though. Only about 6 weeks after finding the concept of FIRE a massive re-org came along that ousted my lovely boss I had been with since the start of my career. The department changed beyond all recognition, and my enjoyment at work plummeted. Internal politics became a thing, a more unpleasant and cutthroat working atmosphere developed, and for someone shy like me I was side-lined and undermined constantly. I started to hate work.
Thankfully this didn’t last long. A change of line manager, hours, and work from home all helped greatly. I also had the goal of part-time that I was striving for and didn’t seem to be that far away in the future.
I’m a bit cautious of living off my money for the rest of my life, so the part-time approach is a great way of getting out of the full-time grind earlier, still being engaged in something, having some structure to the week, but ensuring that work doesn’t dominate the week. I want employment to be something I do that fits around the rest of my life, rather than the other way around. I’ve saved hard (80%+) for the five and a half years since finding the concept of FIRE. My expenses have been artificially low here, so I will now be increasing them. I’m not FI but I have achieved enough of a financial accomplishment that I can now reduce my hours and achieve that balance in my life.
What your downshift looks like?
I will now be working four days a week with Monday’s off and will have over seven weeks annual leave too. I’m in the same role in the same company.
What do you like about it?
I start in the middle of next month. I’ll have to come back and give an update after a few months. I‘m hopeful I feel less stressed and have more time for my out of work goals.
What isn’t so awesome about it?
Again, I’ll have to provide a future update. I hope I can avoid some of the less enjoyable aspects of the job and focus on the bits I really like. Working extra hours to keep up is my largest fear. I will do everything I can to ensure this doesn’t materialise. That would be the worst case part-time outcome.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I hope to achieve a great work life balance now. My working feel good factor has recently dipped. I wonder if that was because I knew this period would be the end of my full-time era? I'll be interested to see how it responds having now gone part-time. I hope the part-time set up gets me to a place where I’m closer to a 3% WR. I see this as a first stage in my part-time journey. A second stage could see me drop to two days a week which seems ideal, or a part-time role in a different industry doing something completely new. Ideally this would be something I would happily do for free. Earning money, protecting the stache, and enjoying work as part of a great balance where no one individual thing requires more than 15-18 hours a week would be my perfect life set up.
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Sounds lovely.
Please, do come back with updates!
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Never Give Up...a lot's happened in the world since that post you quoted. Glad you were able to plow through and get to this point. 3 day weekends and 7 weeks off sounds like a pretty good altitude to cruise at! Let us know how it goes.
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I hope to achieve a great work life balance now. My working feel good factor has recently dipped. I wonder if that was because I knew this period would be the end of my full-time era? I'll be interested to see how it responds having now gone part-time. I hope the part-time set up gets me to a place where I’m closer to a 3% WR. I see this as a first stage in my part-time journey. A second stage could see me drop to two days a week which seems ideal, or a part-time role in a different industry doing something completely new. Ideally this would be something I would happily do for free. Earning money, protecting the stache, and enjoying work as part of a great balance where no one individual thing requires more than 15-18 hours a week would be my perfect life set up.
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Thanks for the update, and looking forward to hearing dispatches from how things go as this change goes from novel to ordinary life!
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Thanks Malossi792. I’ll report back.
It’s been a crazy few years SpareChange. I’m really fortunate to have such a good set up.
Thanks Extramedium. I’m looking forward to adjusting.
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Nice update NGU! I predict you'll love it.
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Thanks happy. I agree with your prediction!
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This was a great update and really helpful to read, thank you @never give up
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I’m glad you found it useful JupiterGreen. I can recommend the entire thread for anyone thinking about a part-time set-up.
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With every passing week and month, I am more sure that full time work/the corporate ladder is a TRAP.
I first downshifted after my mat leave ended, in September 2020 - 4 days a week. I was still in the same role, juggling responsibilities, stress was high but Fridays off was priceless.
In March 2021, we made the decision to move out of the VHCOL city we'd been in. My husband has landed a well paying remote job, and it felt like the time to risk it. I was hoping my tenure and reputation at my company would enable me to work out some kind of deal where I could still work there, but permanently remotely (it was still talk of hybrid then, and it's materialized into a 2-day-a-week-in-office requirement.. for everyone but me!) They agreed to try remote.
We moved, we loved it, but I was still expected to go back once a month - a full day of driving. I went back to the negotiation table in early 2022, and we agreed to make the remote deal permanent, to drop the monthly travel requirement, and to go to 60% (3 days a week) if I dropped from my executive role to an individual contributor. That all materialized in July 2022.
It is THE BEST.
I never knew it would be possible to work part time in a more traditional white collar job. I still make decent money (though recognize the fact that my husband still works FT at a high salary makes it very very easy to not stress about reduced income) and we save a lot. I feel engaged and competent in my days in work, and really appreciate owning my own time and output (vs being a director in endless meetings and held responsible for other people's work). And I LOVE 4 day weekends.
Never going back. (Unless I absolutely have to.) Now I'm just trying to figure out a way DH can downshift as well!
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That’s great Off the Wheel. It’s brilijant to hear such a positive story and I’m glad it is working so well for you.
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That’s great Off the Wheel. It’s brilijant to hear such a positive story and I’m glad it is working so well for you.
Thank you! I agonized over the decision to downshift - move/downgrade the title - but made it happen in part due to the great advice here, so I'm very grateful.
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Yes I can relate to the agonizing and the great advice here. I'm glad it has worked out well now for you and hope your DH can join you too. I'm so excited by it all I can see I invented a new word above! I haven't done that before so that's a brilijant achievement too.
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Yes I can relate to the agonizing and the great advice here. I'm glad it has worked out well now for you and hope your DH can join you too. I'm so excited by it all I can see I invented a new word above! I haven't done that before so that's a brilijant achievement too.
Lol, I remember agonizing about it too when I downshifted and walked away from a role that I was basically famous in my industry for getting. It felt like *such*a huge deal to walk away from at the time, especially since there was no going back.
Now it feels like such a silly thing to fret about. Like, I get why I did at the time, but knowing how dramatically and rapidly life got better, it seems insane in retrospect to have ever hesitated.
Granted, my job was so bad for my mental health that it took about 3 years for my heartrate not to skyrocket when driving by the building.
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Yes I was convinced for a while there I must have been making the biggest decision ever made by anyone in the history of humankind. As I adjust to the income and routine I expect in a few months I’ll think picking something for dinner can sometimes be a more difficult choice than this should have been. I even had polls in my journal asking if I should do it, if I should then when should I do it, for crying out loud! And I’m barely a grain of sand in a desert in my industry Metalcat! I’m sorry you had such a stressful time of it but am glad to hear how rapidly life got better for you.
I’m hoping with the benefit of hindsight this decision falls into the “one of the best things I ever did” category.
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Yes I was convinced for a while there I must have been making the biggest decision ever made by anyone in the history of humankind. As I adjust to the income and routine I expect in a few months I’ll think picking something for dinner can sometimes be a more difficult choice than this should have been. I even had polls in my journal asking if I should do it, if I should then when should I do it, for crying out loud! And I’m barely a grain of sand in a desert in my industry Metalcat! I’m sorry you had such a stressful time of it but am glad to hear how rapidly life got better for you.
I’m hoping with the benefit of hindsight this decision falls into the “one of the best things I ever did” category.
It hard to shed the societal indoctrination that makes it hard to reduce our workload.
It is amazing though that once you do, it just doesn't feel like a big deal. Like, I'm retraining in a whole new career, and it's one that I could easily work full time or part time if I wanted to.
I feel literally zero pressure to work full time. I'll work as much as I feel like working and if full time is optimal for my lifestyle, that's what I'll do. But it just seems so natural to let my lifestyle dictate how much I work, not some arbitrary expectation.
Granted, I specifically chose a profession where this is easier. But even then, it felt like the most natural thing in the world to prioritise a more flexible profession.
I looked at a lot of careers that would make more money that required full time commitment and I was like "m'eh, I think I can do better."
It's just so OBVIOUS now that I need to let my life dictate my amount of work and not the other way around.
It's some serious red pill shit when it happens.
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Is there an easy way to calculate the tax savings from working less hours? I was guessing using last years AGI but I think I'm missing how the itemized/standard deduction changes the result...
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Is there an easy way to calculate the tax savings from working less hours? I was guessing using last years AGI but I think I'm missing how the itemized/standard deduction changes the result...
I am not sure what you mean by the tax savings; you are going to have less take home if you have less income, unless you qualify for a handful of credits by reducing your income.
We moved from the 32% bracket into the 22% bracket. Being in the 22% bracket means not having to worry about supplemental income being underwithheld. It also means not being subject to NIIT. When we halved the income, the federal.tax bill was about 1/3 as much. But we would still have a lot more in our pocket if we earning twice as much.
A quick and dirty way to look at is salary minus traditional contributions minus standard deduction (if that applies to you) and see what tax bracket that lands in. It is generally to find charts that summarize each bracket (ie, when you are in the 22% bracket, your taxes are X to fill the lowe brackets plus 22% for everything in the 22% bracket).
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I guess a better way to put it is how as you move up the tax brackets you keep less of each dollar. So you're keeping less of the earnings for each hour you work. The 22% to 24% jump where I'm at is probably not that striking, but I've been trying to crunch the numbers on take home pay and whether the difference would be as much as I initially thought if there's less tax.
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I guess a better way to put it is how as you move up the tax brackets you keep less of each dollar. So you're keeping less of the earnings for each hour you work. The 22% to 24% jump where I'm at is probably not that striking, but I've been trying to crunch the numbers on take home pay and whether the difference would be as much as I initially thought if there's less tax.
better visualization
https://engaging-data.com/tax-brackets/
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I'm going to assume that the silence in this thread is indicative of the satisfaction everyone is feeling with their downshifted status :). Any juicy updates? Plans going more or less as envisioned?
I was sat down in January and told I would need choose between going back FT or dropping to PRN by the end of spring. Didn't really care for either, so I started picking up more hours in our short-staffed dept. Then not too long ago, our dept decided to move from 5 day to mostly 4 day weeks instead. They found a niche for me working 2 consecutive 10hr shifts. I still keep my benefits. I still have to take call here and there, which I don't like, but overall I'm optimistic.
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I tried to downshift, but hasn't quite worked out like I expected. Apparently, I'm a workaholic.
BEFORE: Worked 40ish hrs/wk as a full-time veterinarian, spent approx 5-10 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
AFTER: Work 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian, do occasional relief shifts at other veterinary clinics (avg ~5 hrs/wk), spend approximately 20-30 hrs/wk on freelance writing side hustle.
I'm definitely happier now... I'm not working any less, but I control my own schedule so I have a degree of flexibility that I didn't have before (want to go to yoga class on Friday morning? no problem!). Plus, I'm making a good bit more money than I was making previously. The relief work isn't really part of my overall master plan, but it's $650/day and I actually really enjoy the days I spend at the clinic where I'm mostly doing relief (great team, fabulous clients, fun location within walking distance of cool lunch restaurants)... so I'm not planning to give it up. I'm not ready to give up the stability of at least a PT vet job just yet and the writing is my long-term plan (just didn't expect it to take off so quickly) so that's not going anywhere.
Looks like my downshift will have to wait a while.
It's been roughly a year and a half since my last update, so here's another...
- Still working 17 hrs/wk as a part-time veterinarian.
- Relief work temporarily increased (avg. of 10 hrs/wk), but then I cut WAY back (10 hrs/month). Planning to stop completely after April.
- Freelance writing holding steady at 15-20 hrs/wk.
I'm trying to decide what's next.
The official plan is to hold steady at this level for the next 2-3 years, then relocate towards the coast. At that point, we (husband & I) will be roughly 75% of the way to FI and I plan to REALLY downshift at that point (stop the PT vet work and just write).
Recently, however, I've been much busier with our daughter. She begged for violin lessons and I significantly underestimated how much of a parental time commitment Suzuki violin lessons would involve!! Between than and some other volunteer commitments, I'm feeling kind of fried. I'd like to downshift even more on my work right now, but I don't know how. My PT job provides our health insurance, so it seems stupid to give that up until we see how the election/ACA goes. The writing is my post-relocation income plan (assuming that the ACA sticks around in some form), so it seems silly to cut back on that. I guess my best bet is to stick with the official plan, but I don't know.
Just reread my previous posts and decided that I might as well share another update.
First of all, WE MOVED TOWARDS THE COAST!! YAY!! My husband got a new FT job, which he enjoys, and I'm loving the increased access to outdoor recreation.
I ended up completely stepping away from veterinary practice, both as an employee and relief vet, during COVID. I'm now working solely on freelance writing and averaging ~30 hrs/wk (some weeks more, some weeks less). Even that was bit much while I was homeschooling our daughter through COVID, but it's more reasonable now that she's in summer camps (9 am until 1-4 pm, depending on the week). I think it will be even easier when school starts in the fall (she'll be in school/aftercare from 8-5ish).
I'd like to find time for some specific volunteer work that I'm hoping to get involved in, but I don't feel like I can make it work right now. Maybe it will be easier once school starts. If not, I'll need to decide whether to decrease my workload further or just keep plugging away until we're closer to full FIRE (2028).
Almost 3 years of updates! Nice. How long were you in vet med? Do you still enjoy the freelance writing, or has it moved more towards a flexible means to an end?
I spent a total of 14 years as a practicing veterinarian, which was more than enough for me!!
I do still enjoy the writing, though my enjoyment has waned a bit now that I'm doing more of it. I can't ever see myself stepping away from it completely, but I'm looking forward to reaching a point where I can scale back to just my favorite clients and feel free to say no to anything that will involve zoom/phone calls or multiple rounds of review. LOL.
2023 update: I'm still doing freelance writing at about 25-30 hrs/wk and still enjoying it! Things are a bit slower right now, but that's the norm while all of my clients slow down during summer vacation season and things always pick up in the fall.
We're currently dealing with some significant uncertainty re: husband's job and likely planning to move in the next year or so, but my work situation is still perfect and I'm grateful for the flexibility. I have no regrets and don't foresee any changes in my work situation!
Currently on track to FIRE in 2030, though that's pretty tentative. My husband's next job may involve a career shift and/or salary reduction, and there's always a possibility that I'll decide to continue gradually scaling back my work. We'll see! My current work life feels quite sustainable, so I'm in no rush.
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- why you did it?
The pandemic changed everything. I was out of work for over 1 yr and I enjoyed every bit of it.
I got my job back and my wife quit her end of Sept.
I'm at about 70% of what I worked before and will go down to 50% next year to get ACA for 2022.
- what your downshift looks like?
I work 3 days a week. Sometimes 4 sometimes 2. Basically whatever I want.
My 3 days will cover all our expenses while letting our current stash grow. NW around $1.4 million.
- what do you like about it?
What's not to like about it ??
- what isn't so awesome about it?
We do have a budget now and we follow it.
It's all mentally actually. We can maintain our lifestyles just as before but since the work income only cover expenses, we don't want to over spend and dip into our current stash. But then again our stash is growing exponentially.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
My job is very flexible. I can basically take off when ever my want while my wife cannot.
Since she quit last Sept, we are free to travel as we please.
We have gone to Colo. in Oct. We have a trip to Tahiti end of Nov.
Ski trip in Dec and many afterwards as we have the Epic pass this season.
We will hit Colo, Tahoe, Utah, Vermont and others during this winter season. This will get us through end of April.
Looking at a big trip in May. Europe or Vietnam. We'll see what Covid will be like by that time.
UPDATE: Almost 2 years later.
We spent about a year in 2021-2022 travelling our butts off. Now in 2023, we are pretty much home bodies.
So far in half way through 2023, I've worked 327 hrs and made $24k.
That's an average of 12.6 hrs per week when I used to average 38.
We've been on ACA last 2 yrs so can't make much money anyway.
NW now is at 1.55 million.
I foresee by 2025 we are completely done. By then, we will sell primary home, move back to rental(which is paid off) and can live on ~$50k with a paid off home. 10 yrs later, SS will kick in and that's when the FatFIRE will start.
We don't have kids so no need to leave any money.
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Great updates! Nice to see people making steady progress towards their goals even through the macro challenges of the last few years.
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YES, I like to see more people quoting their old post with an update.
If you just update without the old quote, it's hard searching for it.
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YES, I like to see more people quoting their old post with an update.
If you just update without the old quote, it's hard searching for it.
Yeah, that's a good point. I'll try to hunt my original down. I know it varies by state, but how has your experience been with the ACA? At some point I will transition to being a PRN with no bennies, and it's going to have a decent sized impact on decision making I think.
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I'm soon to downshift. Been looking forward to it for quite some time.
Why you did it.
I was essentially always planning to downshift at some point, as my career makes it easy to do so. It was the timing that was in question. I was starting to burnout a bit. There were a couple of periods last year when I chose to work 35-40 days straight. Our volume tends to go up in winter, and during the last one I was physically feeling it a lot more. Not getting any younger. Also, my father passed away this July and this will give me more flexibility in helping my mother over the long term.
What your downshift looks like.
Halftime. One week on/one off, more specifically 5 days on (40 hours), then 9 days off. Call every 5th weekend. Still eligible for bennies, albeit with health insurance at a higher rate...going from $16.62/paycheck to $45-50. 4.6% 403b match and 12% pto intact. Will have pto bank maxed at 480 hrs. Plan to keep most of that as a ST disability policy for now. Can easily take more work or call on. We have an app to trade shifts. At base, looking at earning $40k/yr minimum.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
The flexibility and stability inherent to my job makes it difficult to cross whatever threshold is needed to FIRE from it completely. In fact, at some point, I could downshift even further. Being able to ignore SORR is tempting. Even so, I'd like to keep myself on a strong pace until I reach FI, and reach a comfortable RE amount in 5-10 years. I'll still keep investing:). My portfolio is at about 85% of basic living expenses using the 4% rule.
Going on 4 years now since moving to PT. At that time I was having a couple of physical issues due to overuse. Those cleared up after about 4 months. We got my mom's financial situation largely figured out about 8 stressful months after dad passed.
Net Worth back then was 364k. Last month was 673k. During the pandemic my employer lifted the cap on PTO, so my bank has grown to about 690 hours. Still half-time, but schedule has moved to 2 10's per week. Base income going forward is about 45k, but I've yet to work the minimum over the course of a year.
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I rarely post, but have lurked plenty, with occasional posts over the years but now I get to join the 'club' in this thread.
- why you did it?
Because I can? Well sort of; my financial picture seems pretty clear will be a version of FatFire. I had been continuing to work the past 2-3 years due to some huge but very interesting and satisfying projects. I had informed my boss in spring of 2022 that 4 day weeks was where I wanted to head. I have a great relationship with him but he asked if I could hold off until several moderate projects got completed on schedule which I did.
Turn around nearly a year later and as one of the Huge projects for our operations team was finishing up, they had enough customers to be viable, but not enough to retain the full team; decent sized layoff planned (which I always know the juicy stuff months in advance due to my role). My boss informed me that he would need to lay me off too (informed me in March for possible May departure to give me time to look), and I basically simply reminded him that my goal was to go part time anyway and also reminded him of the value I bring to the org. He went off to think about it and within a week decided that 4 days a week would be just fine; that while he personally could do my work he literally did not have the time or desire to add all of it to his plate (no one else in the org available or capable of it anyway. Its good to have key skills). So mid-April I transitioned to Fridays off.
- what your downshift looks like?
80% pay at 32 hours/week, with Fridays off (I looked and would miss out on at least 6 more days off in my company over the first 12 months if I took Mondays off instead). Interestingly, while I thought my company pro-rated vacation, sick, etc.. based on the hours per week vs 40 it turns out that I keep full vacation, sick, etc.. accruals going. You have to be below a 75% work schedule to be considered 'part time'. And with more than 4+weeks (176 hours) of time off between all buckets it'll almost be hard to use them all with Fridays off too.
- what do you like about it?
Lots to be said about both getting the extra day off for long weekends, while also keeping my head 'in the game' and mentally sharp. Allows a slower transition to get time to think about next steps or full retirement without dropping off in one step. Plus spending more time with my family. Although life was insanity level busy for 3+ years prior to this and so I'm spending a lot of time getting to important but not urgent stuff every Friday still (5 months later!) while also mixing in athletic activities and getting back into better shape. (perspective: Though it's also true that my company has been a very interesting spot to be and the exec team that I work with daily is all trying to do the right stuff with the least amount of overt internal politics I've ever run into (400+ person multinational company)). Plus I actually like working from the office one day per week (I bike in during summer).
- what isn't so awesome about it?
Not much to put here. In general it's great. DW is still working, plus with my 80% salary we have few financial worries for now.
- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Lots of open questions around this topic in our house for the moment. DW would quit sooner than later, but that's mostly due to her current company being truly horrific (seemed so nice when she interviewed/started 1.5yrs ago). She's looking elsewhere, but probably tough to match her pay rate in her field so she's looking at lower paid stuff, but being overqualified. Tough search. Why hunt at all with FU money? She also has few hobbies or interests and wants to work to some degree, whereas I have literally tons of hobbies or desired hobbies.
We have an 8th grader in the mix too so are tied to the school schedule for 4.75 more years too. So even if I pulled the plug down to 0% I wouldn't get too far for trips or etc.. outside of school breaks (naturally the most expensive time to do anything is on school breaks!). Plus the one remaining parent, my MIL has some level of dementia/Alzheimer's and moved in a couple years ago. Physically fine, but mentally always pretty confused about what is going on or why, or recalling anything short term and often not a lot of long term memory either etc... Kind of like having a very slow 1st grader or so is my best description. Hard to guess how long till she will need more support than in-home help. Basic gist is we are trying to ease toward FIRE knowing that there are lots of things going on that seem like we should just keep mostly going for a minute or two till things resolve a bit more. Our son definitely needs the example of hard work to see us doing more than talking the talk too (that's just part of who he is, every kid is different of course).
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80% pay at 32 hours/week, with Fridays off
Hell yea, I did the same, best pay cut I ever took. Our company got bought a few years ago and we're all slowly getting laid off a chunk at a time. I'm not looking forward to having to get a new job and go back to 40hrs. Ugh. I'd do 4 10s, but 2-day weekends again? F that. 3-day weekends every week is SUCH a significant difference. Friday is my "get shit done" day, and is my favorite day of the week.
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I downshifted from 60 hrs/week to my current ~40 hrs/wk (only 26 hrs are in the office) and take 5-6 weeks off each summer, so I don’t think I meet criteria for being downshifted according to the definition per this thread. But I feel downshifted (compared to where I was before), so I’m PTF.
why you did it?
Started getting severe chest pains and numbness in one arm. Thought I was having a heart attack but then realized it was mainly stress-induced. Also started having trouble sleeping.
what your downshift looks like?
Going from 60 hours, 6.5 days per week to 3 days per week in the office, 2 days working (or not working) at leisure from home
what do you like about it?
The flexibility. Avoiding rush hour traffic. Being able to work around DD’s school schedule. Not having chest pains anymore. Being able to sleep at night without my mind racing. Avoiding workplace politics since I’m not in the office enough to hear the gossip and when I am, I have stuff to get done.
what isn't so awesome about it?
Nothing. I prefer my current work arrangement over any other arrangement, except it would be nice to cut down my hours even more. We are even saving slightly more than when I was working 60 hrs/wk because my work flexibility has allowed DH to take full-time work.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Short-term plans to keep the same arrangement for 1-2 more years. Then FIRE! We are currently 100% Barebones FI, 75% Full FIRE, and 65% Fat FIRE.
Whoa…I wrote this 5 years ago. I ended up downshifting again 1 year after writing the initial post. Still a FT job, but the new job gives me three months vacation, allows me to work around DD’s school hours, and the work is much easier. The pay+benefits is about the same.
why you did it?
Asked for a raise after working for the company for six years and was denied, even though I was one of their top performers. Also got tired of working evenings and weekends even though I got some weekdays off.
what your downshift looks like?
No evenings. No weekends. No emergency calls. Easier work.
what do you like about it?
Lots of vacation time that matches DD’s schedule. Easier work in a less stressful environment. Better benefits package. Company housing is a 10-minute walk from work and school.
what isn't so awesome about it?
The “curse of the competent”. Over the past few years, they have promoted me and added duties beyond what I was initially hired to do. Recently, they moved me from being an individual contributor to a people managing position. I enjoy being an individual contributor more than being a people manager, but due to COVID, it’s been hard getting qualified people to come to China. I’m hoping it’s temporary, and if it’s not, I’m thinking of making it temporary by FIRE-ing.
what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Short-term plans to keep the same arrangement for 1-2 more years. We are actually staying because DD’s fancy private school tuition is part of my benefits package, and staying 2 more years will mean a natural transition point in her schooling as she moves from elementary to middle school. Then FIRE! We are currently 100% Barebones FI, 100% Full FIRE, and ~80% Fat FIRE.
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Hi Downshifters! An aspiring downshifter (maybe) here.
I’m a little bit cautious and a nervous stock market investor. I was a mortgage over-payer for years and found MMM a couple of years ago aged 40. The main thing I learned from the blog wasn’t really frugality but not being scared to invest. So I have no debt (yay) and have invested 80%+ for the last two years (yay) but am scared of a crash (boo) and how to approach the next part of my FIRE journey...........
This is a really useful thread. I was really inspired by happy’s story among others and was hoping to feel emboldened by those actively living the part time life.
It would be interesting to know what gave people the confidence to make the move to part time. It may have been a partners income for example. I’m single so don’t have that. I’m struggling a little to see through the full time to FIRE versus part time fog, and understand what level of expenses is good enough to have saved in order to achieve FIRE inevitability, allowing part time to be a sensible option.
Phew, I can’t believe this post was over three and a half years ago. Where on earth does the time go! After five and a half years pursuing FI I’ve finally summoned the courage to go part-time. I’ve received considerable help from the forum and this thread is a good one with lots of great stories.
Why you did it?
(https://i.imgur.com/uIAdGoJl.png)
I appreciate the average worker happiness is impossible for me to know but I’ve felt extremely lucky over the years. When I think of my working feel good factor having worked at the same company since I left Uni, I just feel so incredibly grateful. I felt valued, part of a really close knit team, and really well supported. We had a department subculture that just rocked. I’m sure I had above average happiness in my workplace for a sustained period of time. In truth I probably took this a bit for granted. I knew no different, and of course why would I think about the possibility of that ending. I faced a few knocks to my work feel good factor after a minor re-org and the Global Financial Crisis. As bad as the GFC was it didn’t really impact my working environment though and I bounced back pretty quickly in terms of my working feel good factor.
As with life in general, so much is out of our control though. Only about 6 weeks after finding the concept of FIRE a massive re-org came along that ousted my lovely boss I had been with since the start of my career. The department changed beyond all recognition, and my enjoyment at work plummeted. Internal politics became a thing, a more unpleasant and cutthroat working atmosphere developed, and for someone shy like me I was side-lined and undermined constantly. I started to hate work.
Thankfully this didn’t last long. A change of line manager, hours, and work from home all helped greatly. I also had the goal of part-time that I was striving for and didn’t seem to be that far away in the future.
I’m a bit cautious of living off my money for the rest of my life, so the part-time approach is a great way of getting out of the full-time grind earlier, still being engaged in something, having some structure to the week, but ensuring that work doesn’t dominate the week. I want employment to be something I do that fits around the rest of my life, rather than the other way around. I’ve saved hard (80%+) for the five and a half years since finding the concept of FIRE. My expenses have been artificially low here, so I will now be increasing them. I’m not FI but I have achieved enough of a financial accomplishment that I can now reduce my hours and achieve that balance in my life.
What your downshift looks like?
I will now be working four days a week with Monday’s off and will have over seven weeks annual leave too. I’m in the same role in the same company.
What do you like about it?
I start in the middle of next month. I’ll have to come back and give an update after a few months. I‘m hopeful I feel less stressed and have more time for my out of work goals.
What isn’t so awesome about it?
Again, I’ll have to provide a future update. I hope I can avoid some of the less enjoyable aspects of the job and focus on the bits I really like. Working extra hours to keep up is my largest fear. I will do everything I can to ensure this doesn’t materialise. That would be the worst case part-time outcome.
What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I hope to achieve a great work life balance now. My working feel good factor has recently dipped. I wonder if that was because I knew this period would be the end of my full-time era? I'll be interested to see how it responds having now gone part-time. I hope the part-time set up gets me to a place where I’m closer to a 3% WR. I see this as a first stage in my part-time journey. A second stage could see me drop to two days a week which seems ideal, or a part-time role in a different industry doing something completely new. Ideally this would be something I would happily do for free. Earning money, protecting the stache, and enjoying work as part of a great balance where no one individual thing requires more than 15-18 hours a week would be my perfect life set up.
Back in March I promised future updates, but resisted temptation to come back and report too early. I wanted to really settle and for any novelty to wear off rather than report back in the "honeymoon period". I'm now nine months into my part-time lifestyle and am currently at the start of 18 DAYS OFF thanks to my annual leave situation. Full FIRE practice! Woohoo! Happy holidays to everyone!
Here are my key findings/observations since going part-time in no particular order. I've no idea if these are representative of others but hopefully my experiences are useful to any others like I was, struggling to take the plunge and go part-time.
Work Perspective
1. Firstly, I don't call it part-time at the office, I just refer it as a "four day schedule" with colleagues. I feel "part-time" suggests a slowing down or a shift away from work being the most important thing. While both of these are true (ha!), I don't want that to be the impression I give my employers. I also want to stay engaged and do a good job, so although this is just a low-level detail thing, I do think this description is important as a way of helping me communicate with my bosses and fellow employees.
2. I am generating the same output at four days a week as I was at five days a week. The efficiency comes from having more power to concentrate on my job and decline pointless/corporate fluff activities, such as ridiculous meetings and other such corporate nonsense. I found it quite easy to remove a days worth of corporate fluff from my calendar by providing the justification that I'm not full-time, equating to the same time each week to deliver my actual work. As I enjoy my work and detest the corporate environment, this is a double-win. We love double-wins!
3. I didn't receive one word of congratulations from anyone at work. Some aspire to be a director or something by a certain age. I aspired to remove the need for full-time employment. It is an equivalent achievement in my mind. It's not easy to eliminate the need to work full-time. Reactions were interesting.
4. 90% of people at work thought me going part-time was a worrying event. I.e. Am I ok? Is everything alright? Has the company forced this on you? Interesting.
5. On the downside, I have occasionally had to work additional unpaid hours to keep up. I hope to minimise this going forward.
6. Interestingly, my work feel-good factor as shown in my graph above has stayed horizontal. I'm less stressed but also work isn't the most important part of the week now, so I haven't seen a rise or a fall here. I don't know what this means.
7. I've adapted seamlessly to the lower salary. My take-home pay is largely unchanged which helps, as it is my pre-tax pension contributions that have taken the hit, with the stache now taking some of the strain here. I never think about what I could be earning were I full-time.
Personal Perspective
1. The novelty or honeymoon period is not yet over and I see no end in sight. Every Friday I think to myself, "Woohoo, a three day weekend" and every Monday morning I wake up and think to myself, "Woohoo it's Monday!"
2. The maths is interesting. A four day week is 80% of a full/normal working week. Therefore 20% has been eliminated. Therefore, it should feel like an 80% schedule. However it doesn't. It feels like a 50% schedule. When I added up my Monday's off, weekends and annual leave it comes to roughly half the days of the year. That will explain why it feels like a 50% schedule then!
I think what this is really driving at, is that when working full-time, weekends tend to be life-admin/recovery periods rather than times where we can necessarily thrive. So although a full-time schedule sees work days only accounting for 65% of days of the year, it actually feels like 80-90%.
Therefore dropping down to a four day schedule has given me the feeling I've dropped from 80-90% work to only 50% work. This drop is far more powerful than just losing a single day of work. I'd expect such a feeling if I had dropped to a two or three day working week. The fact that this was achieved by just losing a single day is remarkable, and I still have to pinch myself. That 5:2 working day to weekend split becomes 4:3 instantly. That is a big shift and it feels more substantial in reality, than the logic of looking at those numbers in print.
3. My Mum's mobility has declined rapidly these last couple of years. I'm now able to take her out more and help around her house more. This had become hard maintaining both my home and hers while working full-time.
4. A chunk of the newly gained time-off has been spent on my fitness and I feel a whole load better. Who knew that exercise was healthier than being hunched over a screen all day.
That's everything I can currently think of. I'll remain engaged with this thread as I think it's one of the best one on the entire forum. I appreciate not everyone has the opportunity, or a job that is well-suited, but I do believe that a part-time schedule can eliminate a lot of the worst things about work. It can provide many of the FIRE benefits earlier, reducing sequence of return risk and inflation concerns quite considerably (depending on the stage someone goes part-time at) and allows for a more rounded desirable life-style when compared to slogging all the way straight to FIRE.