Post by: Will on January 28, 2018, 10:29:06 AM
It looks like I will be post-FIRE in June, and I have been trying to read up and make sure I know as much as possible before then.
My question(s) for those of you who are Post-FIRE: what has been the biggest surprise since you did it? What were you not really prepared for? What is your best advice for those of us who are within months of being post-FIRE?
TIA!
Post by: Cassie on January 28, 2018, 11:08:13 AM
Post by: Financial Ascensionist on January 29, 2018, 07:59:00 PM
Post by: kei te pai on March 11, 2018, 01:28:04 AM
Post by: Will on March 12, 2018, 11:56:14 AM
My biggest surprise was my own lack of regret or even interest at the end of my career. I thought my identity was quite attached to my profession, but actually it wasnt/isnt. Its over, a new life has begun, and I am very happy.
I am already finding it very difficult to go in to work.
Post by: Mr. Green on March 12, 2018, 02:59:17 PM
Post by: Woodshark on March 12, 2018, 05:12:53 PM
1. We are not spending NEAR what I thought we would on everyday living and/or travel. We still do one big and several small trips a year but since we have retired, we're just happy to "be-here-now" wherever that may be, if that makes sense. A combo of loving life outside of work and the realization that more $$ spent does not equal more enjoyment naturally keeps our expenses down.
2. We both had professionally rewarding careers. One in education. One in more of a creative field. After almost 30 years of working you would think you would miss it.
We. Do. Not. Miss. It. At. All.
Post by: Moustachienne on March 12, 2018, 07:01:38 PM
I was also surprised to find how much I've enjoyed reconnecting with already retired colleagues and how little I'm interested in meeting up with still working colleagues. I like members of both groups equally as individuals but enjoy hearing what the retirees are up to much more than the latest workplace issue or drama. The retirees have a much broader spectrum of interests!
Post by: markbike528CBX on July 18, 2019, 02:36:49 AM
I enjoyed my career and co-workers and thought I'd stay connected to some extent through professional listservs and associations. I still get email announcements about conferences and hot topics but was surprised to find that I was very quickly Not. Interested. Not even a bit! I wish everyone well but my mind and time are filled with other things now and I don't have the bandwidth to care about anything from my former profession. I unsubscribed from almost every list and think I will let my professional association membership lapse at renewal time. How much and how quickly I moved on really surprised me.
I was also surprised to find how much I've enjoyed reconnecting with already retired colleagues and how little I'm interested in meeting up with still working colleagues. I like members of both groups equally as individuals but enjoy hearing what the retirees are up to much more than the latest workplace issue or drama. The retirees have a much broader spectrum of interests!
Yup, I had thought I'd be more interested in taking short jobs from my previous employer, but nope.
One year in and even in the dreary months, a nice warm bed outweighs any faint interest in work.
Post by: Parizade on July 18, 2019, 07:50:39 AM
Post by: FIRE 20/20 on July 18, 2019, 02:21:51 PM
...
2. We both had professionally rewarding careers. One in education. One in more of a creative field. After almost 30 years of working you would think you would miss it.
We. Do. Not. Miss. It. At. All.
^This. I was extremely involved in my career, and after leaving I am shocked at how little I think about it and how little I care.
The other thing for me was that I don't know how I had time to go to work. I often get to the end of the day and find that I wasn't able to get everything done that I wanted to do. Some of it's chores like cleaning and cooking, but mostly it's things I want to do like reading. There just aren't enough hours in the day.
Post by: Fishindude on July 18, 2019, 02:38:55 PM
Frequently run into some of the folks I worked with that are still in the grind and they still want to talk about all this work related crap over beers, etc. I just grin, drink my beer and be thankful to be out of it and dealing with mostly fun things and stuff I "want" to do.
Post by: MonkeyJenga on July 18, 2019, 02:56:53 PM
I thought I would keep coding and learning a new language or two. My interest held for maybe a month after I left work. Now I have things to do outside, and naps to take, and people to meet, and ehhhh sitting on my laptop debugging semicolons is not appealing at all.
I'm also surprised by how vehemently I do not want to go back to work. Like, ever. Not even a part-time job. I assumed I would be taking a 1-year break before going back to my last job for another year. Then I thought maybe I'd do different, less stressful work, in order to donate money to the cause instead, and to make friends. But now, seeing how much happier and healthier I am away from that last job, and how much my investments swing without me doing anything, I would rather donate money without earning more. I may need to work again for health insurance if things change in the US, but until then, I'm not working. When I do, I will be very protective of my time.
Post by: FIRE 20/20 on July 18, 2019, 03:39:00 PM
I'm also surprised by how vehemently I do not want to go back to work. Like, ever. Not even a part-time job. I assumed I would be taking a 1-year break before going back to my last job for another year. Then I thought maybe I'd do different, less stressful work, in order to donate money to the cause instead, and to make friends. But now, seeing how much happier and healthier I am away from that last job, and how much my investments swing without me doing anything, I would rather donate money without earning more. I may need to work again for health insurance if things change in the US, but until then, I'm not working. When I do, I will be very protective of my time.
Yes! This too.
Post by: EricL on July 18, 2019, 04:37:05 PM
Fortunately, being FIRE'd means I have a lot more time to really examine where those feelings come from and deal with them in healthier ways than just sucking it up and driving on.
Post by: happy on July 19, 2019, 12:23:29 AM
A series of things happened just after I left work, and I found myself spending time dealing with STUFF, not relaxing and doing my imagining retired life, for over 6 months. Of course it was great I wasn't working and could take things on properly but it wasn't how I imagined it would be.
Post by: DaMa on July 19, 2019, 11:13:40 AM
Post by: Trudie on July 19, 2019, 01:18:16 PM
I'm surprised at how many naps I take and books I read. I'm surprised at how I have an easier time getting outside of myself and considering the plights of others. (I feel more patient and compassionate, whether it's when I'm waiting in line at the bank or being more empathetic with my husband.)
We just relocated from a small college town to a larger university town of about 65,000 people. This has played a major role in my happiness and sense of well-being. There are new vistas to explore, new people to meet, much better city services (low cost -- great for fire), and so many more ways to engage and get active in the community. I think I didn't realize how isolated I felt in our prior living situation, but now I do and I'm thrilled we took the leap.
Post by: Basenji on July 19, 2019, 02:17:31 PM
Post by: Ladychips on July 19, 2019, 06:15:47 PM
Some weeks you will rearrange everything in the house, Marie Kondo your stuff, plant a garden, take long walks, volunteer, visit family, and cook amazing meals from scratch. Some weeks you will forget to shower and watch every Primitive Technology and Vet Ranch video on YouTube while eating white cheddar Cheetos and sour cream. It's all good.
This life sounds like heaven...
Post by: Firehazard on July 20, 2019, 01:53:57 PM
It took a few months after leaving my FT job to fully decompress and be able to sleep soundly at night and wake up feeling rested after many years of insomnia.
Since I still work PT for my old company, for months I still felt I had to rush all my work to completion, even stay up late to get it all done early, just in case some 'emergency' got dumped on me when I would normally be working on something time-sensitive. I swear, I think it was a mild form of PTSD!
Now I'm realizing that there are no more emergencies coming my way, I am free to work at a comfortable pace, and there's nothing nicer than opening my company e-mail only to find little or nothing that requires any action on my part. Sometimes when I'm out hiking with my dog in the morning, or doing a little leisurely shopping in the afternoon on a weekday I think about how I would be feeling at that moment if I were still in my old job. Not being in it anymore is like a deep breath of fresh air on a beautiful spring day. I am so grateful to be free.
Post by: TartanTallulah on July 21, 2019, 12:59:22 AM
On non-working days, I'm surprised how quickly time passes without me doing very much.
Post by: seattleite on July 23, 2019, 03:40:05 PM
Post by: soccerluvof4 on July 24, 2019, 04:09:47 AM
I also went through some boredom periods but after about a year +/- in I started to figure things out and now I have things pretty much where i want them and even do occasional side gigs for cash. But allow yourself if needed to adjust
Post by: Rosy on August 01, 2019, 08:35:15 AM
Some weeks you will rearrange everything in the house, Marie Kondo your stuff, plant a garden, take long walks, volunteer, visit family, and cook amazing meals from scratch. Some weeks you will forget to shower and watch every Primitive Technology and Vet Ranch video on YouTube while eating white cheddar Cheetos and sour cream. It's all good.
This ^^^ - it's all good:). Insert random binge Netflix days munching on chocolate truffles, nuts, fruit, ice cream and it fits.
I alternate between tackling projects that usually take two or three months of very hard work, including my big garden - which allows my laser focus and OCD to be stroked - to doing absolutely nothing while I laze about in the garden sipping coffee-tea-wine.
I have so many ever-changing interests to pursue that it feels good when I step back and do nothing at all for a while. After a period of rest and re-charging I'm off to work on the next project. It is the way I've always operated - immerse myself in a project, then move on, only this time I have the luxury of taking a restorative break in between.
I thought I might want to travel more, but I've traveled a great deal in my life and other than the two-month bucket list trip to Europe last summer I'm not all that interested. Especially since I am still waiting for Mr. R. to retire.
... and yeah, there is never enough time to read all the books I want to read or learn all I wish to know.
Google-wiki truly is your friend and u-tube is helpful for projects when it doesn't suck you into the void of trailer thrash mind-numbing rants:). I was horrified to realize I spent four hours viewing junk, WTF? Now I've learned to quit 3-5 minutes in, instead of wasting my time.
Post by: Basenji on August 02, 2019, 08:35:36 AM
Post by: Will on October 05, 2019, 08:57:00 PM
Post by: EndlessJourney on October 06, 2019, 03:00:19 PM
I guess one of my biggest surprises is how I stopped coming by MMM and the forums.
Yeah, me too.
I think MMM is basically a support group for the run-up to FIRE.
After FIRE, there's a myriad of things to do with your time and energy, like travel, music, art, literature, gardening, etc. I find myself spending more time on forums and groups dedicated to these pursuits rather than the accumulation/management of a stache.
Post by: PhilB on October 07, 2019, 02:31:52 AM
My biggest advice would be that you need to make sure you get up off your ass and do stuff some days, but give yourself permission not to on others.
Post by: nancyfrank232 on October 07, 2019, 07:03:56 AM
Friends were too busy working and raising kids. And hanging out with my family was only tolerable in short doses
Second, travelling got boring. Every city basically looks the same after awhile. As did the hotels/resorts/homes/etc
Third, the hobbies that others suggested for me, such as gardening, hiking, learning an instrument, art, sitting in a lecture, learning a language, literature, etc didn’t suit me. I wouldn’t do those things even if I was paid so there was no way I would do it during my free time
Last surprise is that boredom for me was real. 16 hours a day, 7 days a week is a lot of time to fill
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f26/hello-from-canada-99808.html
Find something that you like doing, and more importantly, something that you can do for many hours per day, every day
People are right - the grass isn’t always greener
Post by: EndlessJourney on October 07, 2019, 01:50:25 PM
Last surprise is that boredom for me was real. 16 hours a day, 7 days a week is a lot of time to fill
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f26/hello-from-canada-99808.html
Find something that you like doing, and more importantly, something that you can do for many hours per day, every day
People are right - the grass isn’t always greener
Wow, I read your thread above. Your experiences are so foreign to me, but it shows how people can be wired very differently from each other.
It drives home a couple of good points:
- have something to FIRE towards, not just FIREing away from a stressful, unenjoyable job.
- and also, maybe, the accumulation and management of assets and net worth can be a worthwhile pursuit in itself, and FIRE can be a mirage for some.
I read about an old lady who died whom everybody thought she was poor because she lived such an austere life. Turned out she died with millions of dollars worth of stocks in her name. Who's to say she didn't enjoy her life watching the assets stockpile? Just because you enjoy accumulating wealth, doesn't make that interest any less noble than people pursuing travel, arts, literature, etc.
Maybe FIRE just entails finding a less stressful, more enjoyable job to keep on growing your net worth. For some people, a job gives them structure, purpose, self-esteem and social contact. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I think folks need to really examine what makes them happy and be honest with themselves, before they chase after what everybody else tells them will make them happy.
Post by: nancyfrank232 on October 07, 2019, 04:45:03 PM
I think folks need to really examine what makes them happy and be honest with themselves, before they chase after what everybody else tells them will make them happy.
+1
Well said!
Post by: smoghat on October 10, 2019, 06:16:41 AM
My biggest surprise was my own lack of regret or even interest at the end of my career. I thought my identity was quite attached to my profession, but actually it wasnt/isnt. Its over, a new life has begun, and I am very happy.
Very much so. Also I am still crazy busy, mainly with home renovations, and I haven’t lost any weight although my blood pressure has dropped by 10-15 points on both ranges (after meds which haven’t changed).
Post by: SecondCareerist on October 10, 2019, 08:48:52 AM
Post by: EscapedApe on October 10, 2019, 11:13:56 AM
Thanks for your input everyone.
Post by: SwissMiss on October 11, 2019, 12:27:01 AM
1. We have more money than when we FIREd, despite extensive travelling (3 months in Spain, 4 months in Florida, 3 months in South Africa).
2. We are never, ever bored.
3. We like to structure our days (gym in the morning, other stuff in the afternoon, socializing in the evening).
4. People around us think we are working full-time on our own financial consulting business. This has proven to be very useful (no jealousy, no demands on our time).
The freedom is priceless.
Post by: Evgenia on October 27, 2019, 02:45:59 PM
We. Do. Not. Miss. Work. At. All. We cannot imagine going back and don't know how we ever did it, ha ha.
We were surprised at how much better our BODIES felt. This was the biggest one. We had all sorts of aches and pains, etc. that vanished within a couple of months of achieving FIRE and sleeping a lot. Of all the things we planned, we did not plan or expect to FEEL better with no additional effort.
Another surprise is that I don't exercise more. I had planned to do that and it hasn't happened, yet.
Post by: Cassie on November 02, 2019, 05:22:42 PM
Post by: Will on November 02, 2019, 09:38:59 PM
I have been working part time teaching and consulting for the past 7 years because I got bored with full retirement.
If I ever get bored with full retirement (which I doubt, because I don't see how being retired can be boring), I am 100% certain I can find something more entertaining to do than work!
Post by: nancyfrank232 on November 02, 2019, 10:37:46 PM
If I ever get bored with full retirement (which I doubt, because I don't see how being retired can be boring), I am 100% certain I can find something more entertaining to do than work!
Once I became FI, nothing is work and everything is a hobby. And some hobbies happen to pay me $
Post by: Abe Froman on December 06, 2019, 06:30:42 AM
Post by: SachaFiscal on December 06, 2019, 10:05:21 AM
Post by: BTDretire on December 07, 2019, 07:09:26 PM
Some weeks you will rearrange everything in the house, Marie Kondo your stuff, plant a garden, take long walks, volunteer, visit family, and cook amazing meals from scratch. Some weeks you will forget to shower and watch every Primitive Technology and Vet Ranch video on YouTube while eating white cheddar Cheetos and sour cream. It's all good.
And then you might spend a day binge watching "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel" I just watched 5 episodes,
I thought I would anticipate the last 3 over night and watch tomorrow!
Post by: EndlessJourney on December 08, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
When I was working, I thought that if I just had enough time and mental space, I could accomplish things that I had been putting off (e.g. learning a new instrument). When I left my job, I found that I wasn't as self motivated as I thought I would be. It seems that I need to be accountable to someone to accomplish things. So I ended up spending more money on classes and lessons.
There are ways you can motivate yourself to stick to your hobbies that are cheap and enjoyable.
For music, you can join a band, find one on Craigslist or perhaps at a church, they're always open and accommodating to players of all skills. If you are into composing, you can find someone to collaborate with online by swapping music files.
For language, there are coffee meet-ups where you can find a non-native language speaker who wants to practice English, then you in turn can also practice the language you are learning. You can learn new vocabulary, brush up on your grammar and also make a new friend in the process.
Hobbies are always more fun and motivational when you add in a social component to them. Doing them in isolation is a recipe for boredom and eventual abandonment.
Post by: Dicey on December 29, 2019, 07:16:02 AM
Or "Grace and Frankie", which I am enjoying immensely. How is this other "MMM" I keep hearing about? Does it live up to the hype?Some weeks you will rearrange everything in the house, Marie Kondo your stuff, plant a garden, take long walks, volunteer, visit family, and cook amazing meals from scratch. Some weeks you will forget to shower and watch every Primitive Technology and Vet Ranch video on YouTube while eating white cheddar Cheetos and sour cream. It's all good.
And then you might spend a day binge watching "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel" I just watched 5 episodes,
I thought I would anticipate the last 3 over night and watch tomorrow!
Post by: Will on December 30, 2019, 12:06:36 AM
Or "Grace and Frankie", which I am enjoying immensely. How is this other "MMM" I keep hearing about? Does it live up to the hype?Some weeks you will rearrange everything in the house, Marie Kondo your stuff, plant a garden, take long walks, volunteer, visit family, and cook amazing meals from scratch. Some weeks you will forget to shower and watch every Primitive Technology and Vet Ranch video on YouTube while eating white cheddar Cheetos and sour cream. It's all good.
And then you might spend a day binge watching "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel" I just watched 5 episodes,
I thought I would anticipate the last 3 over night and watch tomorrow!
I enjoyed it quite a bit. It is one you watch to see what happens next, and you do care about the characters. The first season was better than the second, but both were good.
Post by: arebelspy on December 30, 2019, 08:24:27 AM
- Post-FIRE has a lot less meaning than I'd have hoped. (Note: that doesn't mean it isn't the right move anyways.)
- Life is considerably more difficult. Going to a job every day is easy, in retrospect.
- You'll wish you had done it sooner.
Post by: Linea_Norway on December 31, 2019, 05:48:19 AM
Since this seems to be asking for more cautionary/things to be wary of, I'll tilt that way with some thoughts.
- Post-FIRE has a lot less meaning than I'd have hoped. (Note: that doesn't mean it isn't the right move anyways.)
- Life is considerably more difficult. Going to a job every day is easy, in retrospect.
- You'll wish you had done it sooner.
@arebelspy Why is life more difficult? Because you feel you need to do something fun and need to make plans all the time?
Post by: arebelspy on December 31, 2019, 06:23:24 PM
- Life is considerably more difficult. Going to a job every day is easy, in retrospect.
@arebelspy Why is life more difficult?
In comparison to working.
When working, five days a week is pretty easy. You wake up, go do your job, go home. Repeat.
That structure doesn't exist after.
Yes, having kids does make life a lot more difficult as well. :)
Post by: PhilB on January 01, 2020, 04:02:10 AM
Just wait until the kids are all in school. You won't be complaining about a lack of structure then!- Life is considerably more difficult. Going to a job every day is easy, in retrospect.
@arebelspy Why is life more difficult?
In comparison to working.
When working, five days a week is pretty easy. You wake up, go do your job, go home. Repeat.
That structure doesn't exist after.
Yes, having kids does make life a lot more difficult as well. :)
Post by: BTDretire on January 01, 2020, 04:44:14 PM
My biggest surprise was my own lack of regret or even interest at the end of my career. I thought my identity was quite attached to my profession, but actually it wasnt/isnt. Its over, a new life has begun, and I am very happy.
+1 t the above, I didn't think I would have any problem, but my wife was our business and most of her mental energy was spent thinking about the business. We were pretty much forced to retire by hurricane Michael. But once she retired she has way to much to do and can't figure out how she did it while working.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 04, 2020, 01:54:39 AM
Yeah the going to the job thing is easy but its the trying to squeeze everything else in on your limited free time that's hard. As you know I came to be FIRE because I was seeking a simpler more minimalist life and so retirement for me is about having less complications in my life. I've been pretty successful at it but yeah, I can see how working could make life less complicated - especially when dealing with and care for other people no matter adorable they are ;-).- Life is considerably more difficult. Going to a job every day is easy, in retrospect.
@arebelspy Why is life more difficult?
In comparison to working.
When working, five days a week is pretty easy. You wake up, go do your job, go home. Repeat.
That structure doesn't exist after.
Yes, having kids does make life a lot more difficult as well. :)
Yes, that is my goal for FIRE, having a less complicated life. Having more time available for the things I like to do and the few things that I must do. So far, so good.
Post by: seattleite on January 04, 2020, 01:18:30 PM
I'm really just blown away by how much time little stupid tasks take. I'm now trying to optimize them away. For example, I'm considering a health care co-op-like system where you pay a monthly fee and everything normal is just included. No more stupid insurance forms.
Post by: GreenSheep on January 04, 2020, 03:54:29 PM
How would your life look if you...?
1. Never rush anything
2. Take the time to do things right, or at least up to your own standards, rather than having to choose some things to half-ass due to lack of time
3. Spend as much time as you want (within your budget) on activities you enjoy
I think most people would see how this massive amount of extra time they think I have just evaporates. I don't know why people seem to expect me to have embarked on some huge, grand lifelong project. That's great for those who have a passion for something like that, but I'm just enjoying life's little details.
Post by: ysette9 on January 05, 2020, 04:59:02 AM
Two and a half years in and my biggest surprise is how much of the day is full of stupid time-sucking tasks that are part of a modern American's day. For example, I spent at least a couple hours to get the reimbursement form correct for two flu shots. In the past I would have done this at work and the time would have felt like it was just part of my work day. Now it feels like the insurance company is stealing this time from me. I also work a lot less on my financial spreadsheet, again because I'm not wasting time at work and this comes directly out of time reading or playing with my kids.Can you get kaiser? Everything is included there and it is real health insurance, not the possibly-dubious co-op deal.
I'm really just blown away by how much time little stupid tasks take. I'm now trying to optimize them away. For example, I'm considering a health care co-op-like system where you pay a monthly fee and everything normal is just included. No more stupid insurance forms.
Post by: Omy on January 05, 2020, 05:35:13 AM
Post by: markbike528CBX on January 05, 2020, 01:37:15 PM
I thought I was going to miss work and have a big void in my life...not at all!We told you so :-)
Post by: Omy on January 05, 2020, 02:51:37 PM
Post by: Lucky13 on January 05, 2020, 07:04:17 PM
In the past I would have done this at work and the time would have felt like it was just part of my work day. Now it feels like the insurance company is stealing this time from me.I hadn't thought of this, the boring personal calls I (occasionally) make during business hours will seem like a waste of *my* time. haha this is great TY.
Post by: MissNancyPryor on January 05, 2020, 07:31:25 PM
Not one of those things has happened.
I am probably blinded by the fact the market went up a whole bunch since the first of September but I have asked myself if the market suddenly went down 40% would I be brushing up my resume? Hell no. My expenses are so minimal that I could hunker right down and spend so very little that it would make no sense to get myself wound up to climb back on the hamster wheel again. I can't imagine going back.
I am going to monitor this feeling and see if it changes but I think it will only get stronger.
Post by: Dicey on January 05, 2020, 10:35:43 PM
It is not that long in FIRE for me but I thought I would be more afraid. Afraid of the market going down, afraid I would regret not hanging on OMY, afraid that I wasted my expensive education by not going at it longer. Afraid of boredom.Seven years in; I'm pretty sure you're right ;-)
Not one of those things has happened.
I am probably blinded by the fact the market went up a whole bunch since the first of September but I have asked myself if the market suddenly went down 40% would I be brushing up my resume? Hell no. My expenses are so minimal that I could hunker right down and spend so very little that it would make no sense to get myself wound up to climb back on the hamster wheel again. I can't imagine going back.
I am going to monitor this feeling and see if it changes but I think it will only get stronger.
Post by: chasesfish on January 06, 2020, 05:31:22 AM
April 2019 here...
- The first six months were harder than I thought.
- Geographic arbitrage was hard - I really wish I would have transferred to my desired place in the last couple years of working, but my income level relative to the amount of work was too high to pull this off. Transferring would have meant more work for less income...been there and done that.
- After the first six months...this is beyond awesome. I wouldn't trade it for anything. The biggest realization is I was good at my job, I liked my job, and at times I was passionate about my job and enjoyed the journey at times. However, my job was not my life and it provided a means to an end. The further away I get from it the more I realized that the time I spent at work came at the expense of everything else. Friends, family, hobbies, travelling. The ability to *rarely* feel rushed at anything is incredible. I was rushed every day with work deadlines and a long list of "to-dos" at home and I'd be constantly doing triage to figure out what was most important.
- Renting first in a new location has been amazing. Taking a break from the constant to-do list of home ownership has been refreshing. Unbelievably refreshing. Now I'm a home shopper based on economics only. What return does this provide relative to rent and what return would it provide if I moved and kept it as a rental. Its irritated a few realtors when we wander into an open house and they push on the "what do you think?" and my response is "I'd pay about X" and that's 20-30% below listing.
Post by: stoaX on January 06, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Two and a half years in and my biggest surprise is how much of the day is full of stupid time-sucking tasks that are part of a modern American's day. For example, I spent at least a couple hours to get the reimbursement form correct for two flu shots. In the past I would have done this at work and the time would have felt like it was just part of my work day. Now it feels like the insurance company is stealing this time from me. I also work a lot less on my financial spreadsheet, again because I'm not wasting time at work and this comes directly out of time reading or playing with my kids.Can you get kaiser? Everything is included there and it is real health insurance, not the possibly-dubious co-op deal.
I'm really just blown away by how much time little stupid tasks take. I'm now trying to optimize them away. For example, I'm considering a health care co-op-like system where you pay a monthly fee and everything normal is just included. No more stupid insurance forms.
Having had Aetna PPO plans, Aetna HMO plans and Kaiser, I agree with Ysette9. Aetna was fine, but involved way more paperwork and other "stupid time sucking tasks" than Kaiser does.
Post by: stoaX on January 06, 2020, 01:49:39 PM
Post by: ysette9 on January 06, 2020, 03:09:54 PM
When you’re dealing with getting the flu shot or allergy testing it is annoying to deal with paperwork, but just that. When I was hospitalized for a high risk pregnancy and my babies spent weeks in the NICU while I recovered from c-sections..... that seemless, coordinated care without paperwork or referrals or worrying who is in network is pricelessTwo and a half years in and my biggest surprise is how much of the day is full of stupid time-sucking tasks that are part of a modern American's day. For example, I spent at least a couple hours to get the reimbursement form correct for two flu shots. In the past I would have done this at work and the time would have felt like it was just part of my work day. Now it feels like the insurance company is stealing this time from me. I also work a lot less on my financial spreadsheet, again because I'm not wasting time at work and this comes directly out of time reading or playing with my kids.Can you get kaiser? Everything is included there and it is real health insurance, not the possibly-dubious co-op deal.
I'm really just blown away by how much time little stupid tasks take. I'm now trying to optimize them away. For example, I'm considering a health care co-op-like system where you pay a monthly fee and everything normal is just included. No more stupid insurance forms.
Having had Aetna PPO plans, Aetna HMO plans and Kaiser, I agree with Ysette9. Aetna was fine, but involved way more paperwork and other "stupid time sucking tasks" than Kaiser does.
Post by: Cassie on January 06, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
Post by: Dicey on January 07, 2020, 05:45:36 AM
I third the Kaiser option. The petty annoyances of their system disappear when compared to any other insurance I've ever had.When you’re dealing with getting the flu shot or allergy testing it is annoying to deal with paperwork, but just that. When I was hospitalized for a high risk pregnancy and my babies spent weeks in the NICU while I recovered from c-sections..... that seemless, coordinated care without paperwork or referrals or worrying who is in network is pricelessTwo and a half years in and my biggest surprise is how much of the day is full of stupid time-sucking tasks that are part of a modern American's day. For example, I spent at least a couple hours to get the reimbursement form correct for two flu shots. In the past I would have done this at work and the time would have felt like it was just part of my work day. Now it feels like the insurance company is stealing this time from me. I also work a lot less on my financial spreadsheet, again because I'm not wasting time at work and this comes directly out of time reading or playing with my kids.Can you get kaiser? Everything is included there and it is real health insurance, not the possibly-dubious co-op deal.
I'm really just blown away by how much time little stupid tasks take. I'm now trying to optimize them away. For example, I'm considering a health care co-op-like system where you pay a monthly fee and everything normal is just included. No more stupid insurance forms.
Having had Aetna PPO plans, Aetna HMO plans and Kaiser, I agree with Ysette9. Aetna was fine, but involved way more paperwork and other "stupid time sucking tasks" than Kaiser does.
Post by: Omy on January 07, 2020, 06:53:37 AM
Post by: Dicey on January 07, 2020, 07:18:37 AM
How does it work if you need medical assistance and you happen to be traveling in an area with no Kaiser facility?Knock wood, because luckily I've never had the experience, but in a true emergency, you get the help you need first, then call them. They take over and manage your care until you can return to their network.
It's also not unheard of for Kaiser to pay for out of network care. My sister and BIL's kidney transplant was done at UC Davis. When he as experiencing some weird numbers a few years post-transplant, Kaiser sent him back to Davis, then to UCSF to make sure he wasn't rejecting the kidney. (He's fine.) DH's boss is having some unusual hereditary eye problems and Kaiser sent him to Stanford, but only after he insisted on an outside opinion.
I should probably mention that you must live within their service areas obtain Kaiser coverage. When DH's parents retired, they bought a second home in Auburn, CA, because that was as far as their Kaiser coverage extended. My sister lives in the same general area. When they were house-with-property hunting, every time they identified something of interest, first thing they did was to make sure it was within Kaiser's range. No Kaiser, no deal.
Post by: ysette9 on January 07, 2020, 10:18:40 AM
Our cousin broke his leg while overseas and kaiser covered all of his care
Post by: Omy on January 07, 2020, 02:08:21 PM
Post by: Trifle on January 09, 2020, 05:44:14 AM
The one thing that's been an unpleasant surprise is that for me time has not slowed down. I thought it would, when I wasn't working. But the past year has flown by at the same speed as prior years. :(
Post by: elaine amj on January 09, 2020, 06:46:55 AM
- travel cost more than I expected. I was initially excited about taking long trips. Until I saw the total costs. So now I only extend our trips by a few days or a week instead of a few weeks. It all adds up. And I don't have the same itch to stay on vacation for as long as humanly possible like I did when I was working. I now relish coming home and staying indoors doing nothing for a few days.
- FIRE doesn't fix emotional problems. Anything you deal with before FIRE is still there after FIRE. But I am thankful I didn't have to juggle a full day's work on top of my emotional recovery.
- how BUSY FIREd life can be. Granted I have two teens but there has been multiple times in the past year someone has asked me over for dinner and I'd have to give them a date a month away. On the flip side, I can often drop everything and run when I am needed somewhere.
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Post by: dougules on January 15, 2020, 10:35:14 AM
- travel cost more than I expected. I was initially excited about taking long trips. Until I saw the total costs. So now I only extend our trips by a few days or a week instead of a few weeks. It all adds up. And I don't have the same itch to stay on vacation for as long as humanly possible like I did when I was working. I now relish coming home and staying indoors doing nothing for a few days.
I'm curious what kind of travel it was. Did you stay in Canada and the US or did you go to countries where dollars go a long way?
Post by: ysette9 on January 15, 2020, 10:47:03 AM
I'm one year into FIRE, and for the most part it has been fabulous. I worry less about money and health insurance than I thought I would, and I can't imagine ever being bored. I'm super happy.Oh no! I’ve been counting on FIRE to slow things down because I feel like my life is suddenly flying by. I don’t want to miss it
The one thing that's been an unpleasant surprise is that for me time has not slowed down. I thought it would, when I wasn't working. But the past year has flown by at the same speed as prior years. :(
Post by: elaine amj on January 21, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
- travel cost more than I expected. I was initially excited about taking long trips. Until I saw the total costs. So now I only extend our trips by a few days or a week instead of a few weeks. It all adds up. And I don't have the same itch to stay on vacation for as long as humanly possible like I did when I was working. I now relish coming home and staying indoors doing nothing for a few days.
I'm curious what kind of travel it was. Did you stay in Canada and the US or did you go to countries where dollars go a long way?
Currently in North America.
Even if I only pay $40/night for a patch of dirt to pitch my tent, that's almost $300 more for an extra week. If I am paying $50-60/night for a hotel and have to add eating out to that, it just quickly multiplies.
Adding a few days is cheap. Adding a lot more days just adds up more than I would have liked.
We added a few extra days in Florida after our cruise last March and while I did it mostly with points, it was still a few hundred bucks more to our budget between car rental, additional fees, tolls, bike rentals for cheap fun, and some eating out.
Anyway, I was mostly surprised that I was happy to go home. And not itching to lengthen our trips. 1-2 weeks now sound great to me. I do want to do a 1-2 month Canadian road trip one day...but will wait a little bit longer.
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Post by: dougules on January 22, 2020, 07:33:55 AM
- travel cost more than I expected. I was initially excited about taking long trips. Until I saw the total costs. So now I only extend our trips by a few days or a week instead of a few weeks. It all adds up. And I don't have the same itch to stay on vacation for as long as humanly possible like I did when I was working. I now relish coming home and staying indoors doing nothing for a few days.
I'm curious what kind of travel it was. Did you stay in Canada and the US or did you go to countries where dollars go a long way?
Currently in North America.
Even if I only pay $40/night for a patch of dirt to pitch my tent, that's almost $300 more for an extra week. If I am paying $50-60/night for a hotel and have to add eating out to that, it just quickly multiplies.
Adding a few days is cheap. Adding a lot more days just adds up more than I would have liked.
We added a few extra days in Florida after our cruise last March and while I did it mostly with points, it was still a few hundred bucks more to our budget between car rental, additional fees, tolls, bike rentals for cheap fun, and some eating out.
Anyway, I was mostly surprised that I was happy to go home. And not itching to lengthen our trips. 1-2 weeks now sound great to me. I do want to do a 1-2 month Canadian road trip one day...but will wait a little bit longer.
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Yeah, the US and Canada don't have a lot of options for budget travelers. (Can't say that about North America in general, though, given that Mexico is very easy on the budget.)
Post by: TeeNixx on January 28, 2020, 06:43:19 AM
Post by: Gone Fishing on January 28, 2020, 08:11:38 AM
The extended market rally has been a pleasant surprise. Our net worth is up 50% since retirement. It could just as easily been the other way.
I was pretty shocked that my wife wanted to go back to work full time. I've ended up with more of the household duties than I expected.
A nagging health problem has been a big damper on my ability/desire to take on big projects. But, it has been so nice not worry about work. Ironically, I've had much less cold/flu, probably in part due to less stress/exposure.
Post by: Will on January 28, 2020, 12:31:11 PM
+1 on really hating administrative time sucks, even though I have time, its not the way I want to spend my day.
The extended market rally has been a pleasant surprise. Our net worth is up 50% since retirement. It could just as easily been the other way.
I was pretty shocked that my wife wanted to go back to work full time. I've ended up with more of the household duties than I expected.
A nagging health problem has been a big damper on my ability/desire to take on big projects. But, it has been so nice not worry about work. Ironically, I've had much less cold/flu, probably in part due to less stress/exposure.
Errands/chores take up SO much time! Ugh! How did I ever squeeze this crap in before I retired?
Yes, this rally is nice and a higher net worth while spending and not earning has been pleasant. Seems a downturn is imminent though. This coronavirus thing isn't helping.
I don't understand these people that feel a need to work. I understand if people need money, but if you don't? I am sure if I ever get "bored" I'll find something better to do than go back to work.
I think the lack of stress does certainly help maintain better health.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 29, 2020, 04:26:33 AM
+1 on really hating administrative time sucks, even though I have time, its not the way I want to spend my day.
The extended market rally has been a pleasant surprise. Our net worth is up 50% since retirement. It could just as easily been the other way.
I was pretty shocked that my wife wanted to go back to work full time. I've ended up with more of the household duties than I expected.
A nagging health problem has been a big damper on my ability/desire to take on big projects. But, it has been so nice not worry about work. Ironically, I've had much less cold/flu, probably in part due to less stress/exposure.
Errands/chores take up SO much time! Ugh! How did I ever squeeze this crap in before I retired?
Yes, this rally is nice and a higher net worth while spending and not earning has been pleasant. Seems a downturn is imminent though. This coronavirus thing isn't helping.
I don't understand these people that feel a need to work. I understand if people need money, but if you don't? I am sure if I ever get "bored" I'll find something better to do than go back to work.
I think the lack of stress does certainly help maintain better health.
A month into FIRE and I finally start feeling unstressed while at home. I still have a tendency to multitask a bit, but not as much as before. I am starting to be a little bit more inefficient, after many years with super efficiency.
Yes, we have some errands to do, but not many. Cleaning our house with two people at the same time takes very little time. DH cleaned both chimneys, after first having to install a ladder on the roof that I had to buy second hand in a snow storm. So small jobs are often bigger than you expect, but they do get done. Better now than when you work full time. Luckily we stopped doing the fulltime time work a year ago, which was already an improvement.
My husband still has plans to do some paid work after FIRE, but only at his own choice and schedule, maybe with a zero hour contract for his old company. That would be from next year and we'll see if he still wants to do that. We have also several times seen seasonal jobs popping up in interesting places. This year we were supposed to be hiking/travelling a lot and that doesn't go together with working a job. But from next year, we could take such assignments for a couple of months. These are jobs like running a B&B in a popular turist city in the north, or being a handy man in a beautiful location.
Post by: Trifle on January 29, 2020, 04:46:48 AM
I'm one year into FIRE, and for the most part it has been fabulous. I worry less about money and health insurance than I thought I would, and I can't imagine ever being bored. I'm super happy.Oh no! I’ve been counting on FIRE to slow things down because I feel like my life is suddenly flying by. I don’t want to miss it
The one thing that's been an unpleasant surprise is that for me time has not slowed down. I thought it would, when I wasn't working. But the past year has flown by at the same speed as prior years. :(
I've been thinking about this a lot @ysette9, and realized that there are in fact times when time slows down a lot for me in FIRE. When I'm away from home/traveling, it almost slows to a stop for some reason. My tentative theory is that somehow being at home still feels "busy", like work did? So the time seems to flow by at the same pace.
But when you have no job, AND leave the daily routine/household chores, then it's like you are cut free from everything. Time slows down to a crawl, like when I was a kid. I'm traveling right now, and it's so odd . . . each day feels like it's three days long. Wonderful!
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 29, 2020, 05:13:56 AM
I'm one year into FIRE, and for the most part it has been fabulous. I worry less about money and health insurance than I thought I would, and I can't imagine ever being bored. I'm super happy.Oh no! I’ve been counting on FIRE to slow things down because I feel like my life is suddenly flying by. I don’t want to miss it
The one thing that's been an unpleasant surprise is that for me time has not slowed down. I thought it would, when I wasn't working. But the past year has flown by at the same speed as prior years. :(
I've been thinking about this a lot @ysette9, and realized that there are in fact times when time slows down a lot for me in FIRE. When I'm away from home/traveling, it almost slows to a stop for some reason. My tentative theory is that somehow being at home still feels "busy", like work did? So the time seems to flow by at the same pace.
But when you have no job, AND leave the daily routine/household chores, then it's like you are cut free from everything. Time slows down to a crawl, like when I was a kid. I'm traveling right now, and it's so odd . . . each day feels like it's three days long. Wonderful!
I feel now that there are quite a lot of hours in a day. If I find out at 1 pm that I still want to take a walk outside, there are plenty of hours daylight left. Often I do a lot of things in the morning, even after sleeping to 8:30. But there is so much you can do in a day if you don't have to work. So far I'm loving it.
Post by: GreenSheep on January 29, 2020, 06:54:27 AM
I've been thinking about this a lot @ysette9, and realized that there are in fact times when time slows down a lot for me in FIRE. When I'm away from home/traveling, it almost slows to a stop for some reason. My tentative theory is that somehow being at home still feels "busy", like work did? So the time seems to flow by at the same pace.
But when you have no job, AND leave the daily routine/household chores, then it's like you are cut free from everything. Time slows down to a crawl, like when I was a kid. I'm traveling right now, and it's so odd . . . each day feels like it's three days long. Wonderful!
The same happens for me. I read somewhere that the reason for this is that you're doing new things, seeing new places, etc. while traveling. Same as when you were a kid... lots more things were new to you than as an adult.
Post by: ysette9 on January 29, 2020, 12:27:22 PM
I do wonder how it will be for me when I pull the plug since with three little people underfoot at home, I don’t expect it to be the relaxing vacation that FIRE may start out as for other people. Time will tell!
Post by: ixtap on January 29, 2020, 12:58:56 PM
That is encouraging to hear.
I do wonder how it will be for me when I pull the plug since with three little people underfoot at home, I don’t expect it to be the relaxing vacation that FIRE may start out as for other people. Time will tell!
I would expect a lot of "yvette9 can do it, she's not working," if your kids are in school or other groups where there are working parents.
It may be what you are hoping for. If not, practice saying no.
Post by: Adventures With Poopsie on April 01, 2020, 08:15:32 PM
I don't want to hijack the thread, but a big fear I have about FIRE is that I will lose any sense of purpose. Can anyone talk to this? Have you experienced that?
Post by: ysette9 on April 01, 2020, 08:29:41 PM
Post by: Dicey on April 02, 2020, 12:27:16 AM
I have really enjoyed catching up on this thread as it addressed many of the things I have worried about. I am still a while away from FIRE, but they're good to start considering.Seven years in and my answer is hell, no! Being FIRE has allowed me to pursue volunteer activities that I love, which has led to other activities I love and scores of new friendships. I wanted to make friends in my community and now I see people I know everywhere I go in my town. I started volunteering at the library before I retired, because I'm a lifelong book junkie, and it blossomed from there. Now I'm on three Boards, one Steering Committee, do two other fun volunteer gigs, and wonder how I ever found time to work, which was my goal all along, but now I call the shots, not some boss I may or may not like at some company I may or may not like. These days (pandemic excepted), I only do things I enjoy doing. It's awesome!
I don't want to hijack the thread, but a big fear I have about FIRE is that I will lose any sense of purpose. Can anyone talk to this? Have you experienced that?
Post by: Trifle on April 02, 2020, 05:04:31 AM
I have really enjoyed catching up on this thread as it addressed many of the things I have worried about. I am still a while away from FIRE, but they're good to start considering.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but a big fear I have about FIRE is that I will lose any sense of purpose. Can anyone talk to this? Have you experienced that?
No way! I have a greater sense of purpose now because I have time to devote to things I really care about. I'm more than a year into FIRE now, and it's just sublime. Like a whole new wonderful life starting.
I think the only people in danger of losing all sense of purpose are those who (pre-FIRE) don't have anything meaningful in their lives other than their job. It's the old MMM saying that you shouldn't just retire FROM your job; you need something to FIRE TO.
Post by: FIRE 20/20 on April 03, 2020, 01:44:56 PM
I have really enjoyed catching up on this thread as it addressed many of the things I have worried about. I am still a while away from FIRE, but they're good to start considering.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but a big fear I have about FIRE is that I will lose any sense of purpose. Can anyone talk to this? Have you experienced that?
If you do something at work that provides a sense of purpose at your job *and* you can't do something equivalent or better after you FIRE, then you could have a problem. Is that the case for you?
For me, I only got a sense of purpose in my career from helping my employees develop, grow, and excel. Everything else - budgets, schedules, contract negotiations, sprint planning, backlog maintenance, requirements development, testing, and all the other garbage I had to do to get paid did not give me a sense of purpose. So I replaced the thing that did give me a sense of purpose and no longer have to do the things that didn't. Until COVID-19 hit, I was a volunteer math tutor and I felt like I was really making a difference. I was going to start tutoring for a local literacy group until they closed due to the virus. I've been able to help my mom and my elderly neighbor both before the virus hit and during the stay at home phase.
Because I don't have to choose what I do based on personal economic benefit I can now choose to do things based on their value to me and my family. Far from losing my sense of purpose I am now able to live a life that is focused on the things that are truly valuable to me, and that has significantly increase my sense of purpose.
Post by: Loren Ver on April 04, 2020, 06:46:41 AM
Post by: okonumiyaki on April 07, 2020, 10:48:03 PM
I have really enjoyed catching up on this thread as it addressed many of the things I have worried about. I am still a while away from FIRE, but they're good to start considering.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but a big fear I have about FIRE is that I will lose any sense of purpose. Can anyone talk to this? Have you experienced that?
Why does life need a purpose?
Post by: ItsALongStory on April 07, 2020, 10:57:49 PM
Not having anything you can truly be proud of is what worries me, be it showing people the world through your own travel pictures, volunteering at a homeless shelter or caring for your grandkids on occasion. These things that trigger purpose certainly change throughout life.
I am currently struggling to find sufficient purpose in my employment when for many (including me until relatively recently) it would have tons of purpose.
Post by: Turkey Leg on April 08, 2020, 09:09:41 AM
What is your best advice for those of us who are within months of being post-FIRE?
Mr. Leg and I took a look at our stache before we FIREd and imagined it being half of its value. Why? Because we knew it could very well happen.
And guess what? It hasn't been down 50% yet, but it's taken some steep dives in 2020. And that's all right, because we were mentally prepared for it.
Post by: Ozlady on April 08, 2020, 05:33:08 PM
I have really enjoyed catching up on this thread as it addressed many of the things I have worried about. I am still a while away from FIRE, but they're good to start considering.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but a big fear I have about FIRE is that I will lose any sense of purpose. Can anyone talk to this? Have you experienced that?
Why does life need a purpose?
I am kinda semi retired for a while...for a long time, i did ponder about this question...but recently i heard an interview from someone who lost his loved ones within 12 months ....and i kinda had this lightbulb moment...
My new resolve is just not to think too macro..to live everyday happily...to enjoy and treasure daily small moments and the people i meet daily....in other words..live for the moment and don't plan too Long and too Big...even if some days, it seems meandering
and "purposeless"...to others...but do i care? It's My life after all.. Shrug!
I volunteer once a week ..had done so for the last 10 years...sometimes twice a week ...now Covid has laid me off...
Will i continue after Covid? Shrug...if it happens ..it happens...Atm..i am living each day as it is...trying my best to be Grateful, Patient and Happy..
To do Otherwise, to ponder too much about the Universe and my Ultimate Purpose ...would be Real Taxing on this Minute Brain of mine:(
Post by: Alien on April 11, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
Two and a half years in and my biggest surprise is how much of the day is full of stupid time-sucking tasks that are part of a modern American's day. For example, I spent at least a couple hours to get the reimbursement form correct for two flu shots. In the past I would have done this at work and the time would have felt like it was just part of my work day. Now it feels like the insurance company is stealing this time from me. I also work a lot less on my financial spreadsheet, again because I'm not wasting time at work and this comes directly out of time reading or playing with my kids.
I'm really just blown away by how much time little stupid tasks take. I'm now trying to optimize them away. For example, I'm considering a health care co-op-like system where you pay a monthly fee and everything normal is just included. No more stupid insurance forms.
The captcha on this forum is brutal!
Haha, yes. My mundane garbage task list always has some trifle on it. Reminds me of what this writer said (the full essay is great):
"However, I have not been trying to prove that primitive man was less fortunate in his working life than modern man is. In my opinion the contrary was true. Probably at least some nomadic hunter-gatherers had more leisure time than modern employed Americans do. It’s true that the roughly forty-hour work-week of Richard Lee’s Bushmen was about equal to the standard American work-week. But modern Americans are burdened with many demands on their time outside their hours of employment. I myself, when working at a forty-hour job, have generally felt busy: I’ve had to shop for groceries, go to the bank, do the laundry, fill out income-tax forms, take the car in for maintenance, get a haircut, go to the dentist ...there was always something that needed to be done. Many of the people I now correspond with likewise complain of being busy. In contrast, the male Bushman’s time was genuinely his own outside of his working hours; he could spend his non-working time as he pleased. Bushman women of reproductive age may have had much less leisure time because, like women of all societies, they were burdened with the care of small children."
Post by: Dicey on April 12, 2020, 07:56:33 AM
"However, I have not been trying to prove that primitive man was less fortunate in his working life than modern man is. In my opinion the contrary was true. Probably at least some nomadic hunter-gatherers had more leisure time than modern employed Americans do. It’s true that the roughly forty-hour work-week of Richard Lee’s Bushmen was about equal to the standard American work-week. But modern Americans are burdened with many demands on their time outside their hours of employment. I myself, when working at a forty-hour job, have generally felt busy: I’ve had to shop for groceries, go to the bank, do the laundry, fill out income-tax forms, take the car in for maintenance, get a haircut, go to the dentist ...there was always something that needed to be done. Many of the people I now correspond with likewise complain of being busy. In contrast, the male Bushman’s time was genuinely his own outside of his working hours; he could spend his non-working time as he pleased. Bushman women of reproductive age may have had much less leisure time because, like women of all societies, they were burdened with the care of small children."They were also burdened with entertaining pleasure-seeking Bushmen, hence the need to care for small children ;-)
Post by: ysette9 on April 12, 2020, 08:46:17 AM
Even now, I love my family and am grateful for them, but being at home 24/7 caring for all of them now is harder than when I was back at work.
Post by: dude on April 13, 2020, 09:37:19 AM
Best advice - same as always, don't worry about the things you can't control, and focus on the things you can/do. Stoicism 101.
Post by: lifepopsicle on April 25, 2020, 05:30:49 PM
All of this said, there isn't a single day where I haven't been grateful for this life. One of the absolute best parts about FI/RE is that I don't have to stress about balancing raising a young child and working, and my husband and I can share many of the child rearing responsibilities. We have it so much easier than everyone else we know with young children.
Post by: Linea_Norway on April 26, 2020, 12:24:24 AM
Very newly FI and only partially RE (husband and I are both still doing freelance work.) FI/RE also coincided with the birth of our first child, so two major life changes at once. I'm surprised by a few things: 1) feeling guilt, anxiety (not sure of the exact emotion) over having the ability to retire from paid work at 32 and not having a plan to give back to society or build some sort of meaningful legacy. For example, if you could go back to college and study anything or pursue any career without regard to income, what would you choose? Is there a responsibility when you achieve this lifestyle to do something greater with your time, or is simply enjoying your life enough? This haunts me regularly but it's also such a privilege to even be able to ask it. 2) how challenging it is for me to talk about our life situation with others, even close family and friends. I find it hard to explain what were doing / what we did to people without it feeling like bragging. Many people are shocked and then almost offended when you tell them you're retired and you're only in your early 30s. I usually say that we're on sabbatical, parental leave, or that we're freelancers, but I almost never tell people we're retired. I wish I felt more comfortable owning this lifestyle publicly. 3) because of number one and two I've had trouble completely stepping away from work entirely. Even as a new mom, I am struggling with identifying purpose within the FI/RE life.
All of this said, there isn't a single day where I haven't been grateful for this life. One of the absolute best parts about FI/RE is that I don't have to stress about balancing raising a young child and working, and my husband and I can share many of the child rearing responsibilities. We have it so much easier than everyone else we know with young children.
The age of 32 is indeed very young. Maybe for your own benefit, you should look into doing something like volunteering after a while. Or start a company.
I FIREd at 46 and I do not have that feeling (yet). I feel like I have always worked and contributed to others. Now, I would like to have some time for myself once.
I don't tell others about retiredment either. I think people might have prejudices, like not paying as much tax as you could. So we have been telling the sabbatical thing as well.
On topic, what surprices me a lot, is how little I come outside. Inlove being outside normally and roam through the forest for hours. Now I feel I don't have that much time. Partly due to corona policies which kept us home instead of being in our preferred skiing location. And partly because of stress for finding a good rental property. There is a lot of internet search that needs to be done. And I have also become reluctant to use the car to get to some other spit. So I walk in the forest close at home, but I am not using the option of going everywhere, like I used to in the past during the weekends. I also read a lot more than I used to and can't do that walking. So if my book is attractive, I often prioritize it over being outside.
Post by: lifepopsicle on April 28, 2020, 07:41:05 AM
1) SO many FI/RE bloggers retired in their early 30s that it seems "normal" if you spend enough time on their blogs, but it does bring some challenges, namely, feeling like maybe you haven't contributed enough to society OR you haven't created your "life's work." Brandon @madfientist has a couple wonderful posts/podcasts about his first few years after retirement where he talks about the importance of having a project you care about when you retire. One of the interesting things about following these online gurus is that they all have that project or purpose fairly well-defined, by nature of you even knowing about them! Certainly they do their own soul searching, but because they are bloggers and that gives them a sense of purpose and a channel for helping others, it's harder to look for them for guidance on defining purpose and meaning in your own life.
2) When you retire at 32, you aren't really retiring. Are any of us really retiring actually? It's really an opportunity to pursue work that matters to you, as MMM advises frequently in his posts. However, there's more constraints on work you're willing to do. For example, most of us would never work for a boss ever again. Nor would we want performance reviews or to be held to specific hours. So traditional work is out. You're right that starting a business (or in my case, pivoting the business I already own to something I enjoy more) can be a great path forward. So can volunteer work if you can find a cause you really care about. But this can still feel intimidating. Nothing worthwhile is easy! (Something I'm thinking about is taking a 2-3 year "sabbatical" to explore topics that I am interested in, almost like a self-guided master's degree, and see what comes out of that learning process.)
3) Many people in their early 30s have young children or are starting families, this takes a lot of time and you can genuinely be so busy with just this that it may be a while before you have the time and energy to pursue the passions you dreamed about pre-FIRE.
So to sum it all up, I think the most challenging, surprising and invigorating aspect of post-FIRE life is defining your identity and purpose, and what you could do if you could do anything.
Side note - I literally stopped working actively on my business on January 1, my baby was born February 1, and coronavirus started March 1. Our post-FIRE plans involve(d) quite a lot of international travel. We're optimistic for the future but it's definitely a weird time to embrace the retirement that you worked so hard for! I can't wait to reflect again on this same question a year or two from now!
Post by: Cassie on April 28, 2020, 11:02:15 AM
Post by: hybrid on April 30, 2020, 02:13:41 PM
I got a sinus infection (viral) shortly after my FIRE date. Although this was a sh**ty way to start FIRE it was sooooooo nice to be able to just go to bed and rest without that subconscious anxiety of falling behind at work. OMG, the luxury of putting self-care FIRST on my list of priorities. I was able to recover very quickly and start having fun, but I won't forget that revelation.
That is sh**ty. Although it's not a competition, I can top that... ;-)
Fortunately, lots of stuff to do around the house and in the yard to keep me occupied until a sense of Normalcy returns.
Post by: hybrid on April 30, 2020, 02:54:47 PM
I think the fact that DW is 12 years older than me (we have been married 34 years) I became a planner and forward-thinker quite by accident. Because DW was experiencing a number of things a decade ahead of me it conditioned me to look forward, not backwards. I became an expert about SS benefits at 48 because DW was going to be eligible in a few short years, so we needed to know about what to do there many long years before it would apply to me.
I have a few questions for the group:
- Did the fact that most of your social circle still work create and issues or problems? Did you avoid discussing your new (awesome) place in the world because they weren't there? Being FIRE feels a little like winning the lottery and having to be careful not to say too loudly how awesome it is.
- Anything noticeably change on the spousal front? DW (who retired four years before me) goes at a slower pace than me, and she feels stressed that I am eager to tackle a host of new projects. I tell her she should go at whatever pace feels good for her and I'll go at mine, I'm not convinced that is a satisfying answer for her. I'm sure she's adjusting to me being home 24/7, and with Covid that isn't much of an exaggeration....
Thanks!
Post by: Linea_Norway on May 01, 2020, 12:29:27 AM
I told one friend about my plans, but he would be capable of doing the same thing himself, if he would just sell that rediculously expensive apartment he just bought. He bought it after I had told him about the concept of FIRE two years ago, so maybe it was a deliberate choice.
Because of DH's wish, I only told people, including this friend, that we took a year off. Except for FIL, who FIREd himself many years ago. But unfortunately, FIL did what I was affraid my mother would do, he told all his friends about us retiring in our 40-ies. Why do old people always gossip about their children, even our finances? Better to not tell anyone. But I feel bad every time I am not speaking the truth. Like now, when we looked for a rental property, I explain to the landlords that we havevtaking a year off and that we later will work a bit as a consultant. It hurts mentally, being dishonest.
Post by: Dicey on May 01, 2020, 03:22:01 AM
@hybrid I would feel bad telling friends who still need to work, that I have retired. Taking a year off is already a thing most people cannot afford, but that most will understand. I think that if you are above 60, you can tell others you have retired without anyone questioning you.Keeping your personal business to yourself is NOT being dishonest. Virtually every social grace exists to help people get along with each other. As you have described it, you are being mindful of other's feelings. This makes you a considerate person, not a liar.
I told one friend about my plans, but he would be capable of doing the same thing himself, if he would just sell that rediculously expensive apartment he just bought. He bought it after I had told him about the concept of FIRE two years ago, so maybe it was a deliberate choice.
Because of DH's wish, I only told people, including this friend, that we took a year off. Except for FIL, who FIREd himself many years ago. But unfortunately, FIL did what I was affraid my mother would do, he told all his friends about us retiring in our 40-ies. Why do old people always gossip about their children, even our finances? Better to not tell anyone. But I feel bad every time I am not speaking the truth. Like now, when we looked for a rental property, I explain to the landlords that we havevtaking a year off and that we later will work a bit as a consultant. It hurts mentally, being dishonest.
Post by: Cassie on May 04, 2020, 01:01:56 PM
Post by: goat_music_generator on May 06, 2020, 07:29:13 PM