Author Topic: Any regrets after fire?  (Read 10183 times)

thriftycanadian

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Any regrets after fire?
« on: June 06, 2018, 12:23:47 AM »
ER'd Mustachnians: Do any of you have any regrets, or 2nd guessed your decision to fire?  Haunted by what if thoughts etc?

EricL

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2018, 12:33:57 AM »
There are numerous regrets about my career. Mostly stuff I wish Iíd done better and occasionally people I wish Iíd shot.  But mostly I wish I couldíve FIREíd earlier.

dude

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2018, 09:40:15 AM »
ER'd Mustachnians: Do any of you have any regrets, or 2nd guessed your decision to fire?  Haunted by what if thoughts etc?

The only regret I've heard from those I've known who ER'ed (granted, with pensions) is that they didn't do it sooner.

infromsea

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2018, 12:53:42 PM »
ER'd Mustachnians: Do any of you have any regrets, or 2nd guessed your decision to fire?  Haunted by what if thoughts etc?

The only regret I've heard from those I've known who ER'ed (granted, with pensions) is that they didn't do it sooner.

Add me to that count, should have ER'd (with my pension) sooner, before the kids got older and moved out/into high school and reduced the "value" of being a SAHD.

Dicey

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2018, 01:01:24 PM »
I had cancer in my early twenties. I knew then that I wanted to retire early. My dad retired at 50, but he did so with a government pension. It took until I was 54 to actually make it happen, for a number of reasons, primarily health insurance. If the internet and personal finance blogs had come along sooner, it wouldn't have taken me so long.
So no real regrets, just that I would have loved to hit FIRE sooner.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2018, 02:56:07 AM »
My only regret is that I wasn't smart enough about things to have done sooner.  I made it and spent it but had some good times and still was able to fire by 50 so the word regret might be a little strong.

Jakejake

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2018, 06:55:00 AM »
Two years into it, I don't regret doing it, but I regret letting my family know. I had no clue the extent to which they would view me as their personal on call servant/home care health worker, like if work doesn't own me, everyone's free to claim my time except myself.

My sibling who didn't manage her finances as well and is still working, I guess my parents' plan is to reward her with total freedom and to saddle me with permanent responsibility for watching my mom with dementia while dad's in the hospital and then residential rehab or hospice depending how this goes. And then I'm under orders to move my mom to my state against her will to live near me so my golden years can be spent caring for her.

I'm so angry and filled with resentment, especially since when their parents (my grandparents) were all dealing with lingering deaths from cancer or dementia that lasted decades, my parents didn't lift a finger to help with day to day care, they traveled the world enjoying their own early retirement and dumped the responsibility on their siblings (who were all still working full time jobs).

My husband Fire'd in April, I'm about a thousand miles away from him right now living in a freaking retirement community with my mother at the moment with no specific end date. It's the third time in the two years I've been retired I've been told "get a one way plane ticket tomorrow to come down here, you might be here a few weeks".

I would have been happier just working in a lot of ways - and it's not like they can't afford to hire full time care for my mom, she just refuses to acknowledge she needs it so this is their easy way out. I feel like I'm gonna punch out a window though every time they tell someone I'm down here on a vacation.

IF YOU DO IT, DON'T TELL YOUR FAMILY UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.

Dicey

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2018, 07:34:51 AM »
Two years into it, I don't regret doing it, but I regret letting my family know. I had no clue the extent to which they would view me as their personal on call servant/home care health worker, like if work doesn't own me, everyone's free to claim my time except myself.

My sibling who didn't manage her finances as well and is still working, I guess my parents' plan is to reward her with total freedom and to saddle me with permanent responsibility for watching my mom with dementia while dad's in the hospital and then residential rehab or hospice depending how this goes. And then I'm under orders to move my mom to my state against her will to live near me so my golden years can be spent caring for her.

I'm so angry and filled with resentment, especially since when their parents (my grandparents) were all dealing with lingering deaths from cancer or dementia that lasted decades, my parents didn't lift a finger to help with day to day care, they traveled the world enjoying their own early retirement and dumped the responsibility on their siblings (who were all still working full time jobs).

My husband Fire'd in April, I'm about a thousand miles away from him right now living in a freaking retirement community with my mother at the moment with no specific end date. It's the third time in the two years I've been retired I've been told "get a one way plane ticket tomorrow to come down here, you might be here a few weeks".

I would have been happier just working in a lot of ways - and it's not like they can't afford to hire full time care for my mom, she just refuses to acknowledge she needs it so this is their easy way out. I feel like I'm gonna punch out a window though every time they tell someone I'm down here on a vacation.

IF YOU DO IT, DON'T TELL YOUR FAMILY UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.
@Jakejake, oh wow! I'm a caregiver for my MIL who has ALZ and lives with us. I had literally met her once before DH and  I eloped. Three weeks later, DH's dad died and we realized there was a problem. That was over 5 years ago.

This makes me perhaps more qualified than most here to do this: Sorry, but you're desperately in need of a face punch. As kind and gentle a face punch as possible, but still a face punch. No one can take advantage of you unless you let them! You need to dig deep and figure out why you are allowing them to manipulate you. This hair shirt you are wearing needs to be shed. You might want to consider a little bit of counselling to figure out why you are letting your parents literally shit on you. This is NOT okay, and it's clearly not good for your health or your marriage. This is serious "Put on your air mask first time."

Shocking as this sounds,  this problem is NOT about being FIRE. The dynamics that allow them to play you like this exist whether you are working or not. You must learn how to defend yourself. Otherwise, the danger of losing yourself down their rabbit hole is real.

YOU CAN DO THIS!

jim555

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2018, 07:46:22 AM »
Dealing with family relations can be an eye opener.  I had a cousin who would maybe speak to me once every blue moon.  Then she starts being super nice and friendly.  I am thinking this is weird.  Then she needs money.  I tell her not in the budget for her.  Now she refuses to speak to me.  Her phone has no voice mail, so I mailed her a letter.  Nothing.  So I am cut off I guess.

Same with a brother.  So these people could care less, they only want money. 

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2018, 08:01:02 AM »
and it's not like they can't afford to hire full time care for my mom

That's really awesome.  Help them set that up and go home.  A good kid makes sure their parent is not placed in a dangerous situation.  A good kid does not ruin their own life.

lexde

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2018, 08:07:57 AM »
Two years into it, I don't regret doing it, but I regret letting my family know. I had no clue the extent to which they would view me as their personal on call servant/home care health worker, like if work doesn't own me, everyone's free to claim my time except myself.

My sibling who didn't manage her finances as well and is still working, I guess my parents' plan is to reward her with total freedom and to saddle me with permanent responsibility for watching my mom with dementia while dad's in the hospital and then residential rehab or hospice depending how this goes. And then I'm under orders to move my mom to my state against her will to live near me so my golden years can be spent caring for her.

I'm so angry and filled with resentment, especially since when their parents (my grandparents) were all dealing with lingering deaths from cancer or dementia that lasted decades, my parents didn't lift a finger to help with day to day care, they traveled the world enjoying their own early retirement and dumped the responsibility on their siblings (who were all still working full time jobs).

My husband Fire'd in April, I'm about a thousand miles away from him right now living in a freaking retirement community with my mother at the moment with no specific end date. It's the third time in the two years I've been retired I've been told "get a one way plane ticket tomorrow to come down here, you might be here a few weeks".

I would have been happier just working in a lot of ways - and it's not like they can't afford to hire full time care for my mom, she just refuses to acknowledge she needs it so this is their easy way out. I feel like I'm gonna punch out a window though every time they tell someone I'm down here on a vacation.

IF YOU DO IT, DON'T TELL YOUR FAMILY UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.
Is there any way you could tell them you have to go back to work? (Without saying, “for myself, doing what I want to do.”?).

This is really insightful advice not to tell family because I could see my extended family absolutely doing this to me like they have with non-FIRE retired members of the family. It sucks, and it’s unfair. I’m sorry you got saddled with everything, because in a lot of ways that kind of caregiving is much worse than a 9-5.

lexde

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2018, 08:09:17 AM »
Dealing with family relations can be an eye opener.  I had a cousin who would maybe speak to me once every blue moon.  Then she starts being super nice and friendly.  I am thinking this is weird.  Then she needs money.  I tell her not in the budget for her.  Now she refuses to speak to me.  Her phone has no voice mail, so I mailed her a letter.  Nothing.  So I am cut off I guess.

Same with a brother.  So these people could care less, they only want money.
Yikes. That’s rough. How much did you tell them about your finances/situation?

jim555

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2018, 08:17:13 AM »
Dealing with family relations can be an eye opener.  I had a cousin who would maybe speak to me once every blue moon.  Then she starts being super nice and friendly.  I am thinking this is weird.  Then she needs money.  I tell her not in the budget for her.  Now she refuses to speak to me.  Her phone has no voice mail, so I mailed her a letter.  Nothing.  So I am cut off I guess.

Same with a brother.  So these people could care less, they only want money.
Yikes. Thatís rough. How much did you tell them about your finances/situation?
I told them I retired.  Nothing else.
Kinda regretting telling them the truth.

lexde

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2018, 08:20:13 AM »
Dealing with family relations can be an eye opener.  I had a cousin who would maybe speak to me once every blue moon.  Then she starts being super nice and friendly.  I am thinking this is weird.  Then she needs money.  I tell her not in the budget for her.  Now she refuses to speak to me.  Her phone has no voice mail, so I mailed her a letter.  Nothing.  So I am cut off I guess.

Same with a brother.  So these people could care less, they only want money.
Yikes. That’s rough. How much did you tell them about your finances/situation?
I told them I retired.  Nothing else.
Kinda regretting telling them the truth.
That’s rough, especially when true colors are shown with people you should feel close to. I don’t know what I’d tell people, but I’m a long way off from FIRE. If you could have done it differently, what would you have told them?

jim555

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2018, 08:26:43 AM »
Thatís rough, especially when true colors are shown with people you should feel close to. I donít know what Iíd tell people, but Iím a long way off from FIRE. If you could have done it differently, what would you have told them?
Probably I work from home now.

dude

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2018, 10:45:10 AM »
Two years into it, I don't regret doing it, but I regret letting my family know. I had no clue the extent to which they would view me as their personal on call servant/home care health worker, like if work doesn't own me, everyone's free to claim my time except myself.

My sibling who didn't manage her finances as well and is still working, I guess my parents' plan is to reward her with total freedom and to saddle me with permanent responsibility for watching my mom with dementia while dad's in the hospital and then residential rehab or hospice depending how this goes. And then I'm under orders to move my mom to my state against her will to live near me so my golden years can be spent caring for her.

I'm so angry and filled with resentment, especially since when their parents (my grandparents) were all dealing with lingering deaths from cancer or dementia that lasted decades, my parents didn't lift a finger to help with day to day care, they traveled the world enjoying their own early retirement and dumped the responsibility on their siblings (who were all still working full time jobs).

My husband Fire'd in April, I'm about a thousand miles away from him right now living in a freaking retirement community with my mother at the moment with no specific end date. It's the third time in the two years I've been retired I've been told "get a one way plane ticket tomorrow to come down here, you might be here a few weeks".

I would have been happier just working in a lot of ways - and it's not like they can't afford to hire full time care for my mom, she just refuses to acknowledge she needs it so this is their easy way out. I feel like I'm gonna punch out a window though every time they tell someone I'm down here on a vacation.

IF YOU DO IT, DON'T TELL YOUR FAMILY UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.
@Jakejake, oh wow! I'm a caregiver for my MIL who has ALZ and lives with us. I had literally met her once before DH and  I eloped. Three weeks later, DH's dad died and we realized there was a problem. That was over 5 years ago.

This makes me perhaps more qualified than most here to do this: Sorry, but you're desperately in need of a face punch. As kind and gentle a face punch as possible, but still a face punch. No one can take advantage of you unless you let them! You need to dig deep and figure out why you are allowing them to manipulate you. This hair shirt you are wearing needs to be shed. You might want to consider a little bit of counselling to figure out why you are letting your parents literally shit on you. This is NOT okay, and it's clearly not good for your health or your marriage. This is serious "Put on your air mask first time."

Shocking as this sounds,  this problem is NOT about being FIRE. The dynamics that allow them to play you like this exist whether you are working or not. You must learn how to defend yourself. Otherwise, the danger of losing yourself down their rabbit hole is real.

YOU CAN DO THIS!

Wow, what Dicey said -- you gotta draw a line in the sand and shrug off that guilt.

Kwill

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2018, 11:03:15 AM »
...
I would have been happier just working in a lot of ways - and it's not like they can't afford to hire full time care for my mom, she just refuses to acknowledge she needs it so this is their easy way out. ...
Is there any way you could tell them you have to go back to work? (Without saying, ďfor myself, doing what I want to do.Ē?).

If they can hire care for your mother and if you can set that up, that would be good.

Could you maybe find a very part-time job? For example, if you had to work on Wednesdays (only), you would still have 6-day weekends, but you would not be free to leave for weeks on end. You could just say that you're working part-time because retirement wasn't quite working out for you and you thought the extra income would be nice. You'd still be able to go see your parents and help out a bit but not indefinitely.

Jakejake

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2018, 05:06:03 PM »

I'm a caregiver for my MIL who has ALZ and lives with us. I had literally met her once before DH and I eloped. Three weeks later, DH's dad died and we realized there was a problem. That was over 5 years ago.

This makes me perhaps more qualified than most here to do this: Sorry, but you're desperately in need of a face punch. As kind and gentle a face punch as possible, but still a face punch. No one can take advantage of you unless you let them! You need to dig deep and figure out why you are allowing them to manipulate you. This hair shirt you are wearing needs to be shed. You might want to consider a little bit of counselling to figure out why you are letting your parents literally shit on you. This is NOT okay, and it's clearly not good for your health or your marriage. This is serious "Put on your air mask first time."

Shocking as this sounds,  this problem is NOT about being FIRE. The dynamics that allow them to play you like this exist whether you are working or not. You must learn how to defend yourself. Otherwise, the danger of losing yourself down their rabbit hole is real.


I was reading all this on my phone in the hospital room today, but it's a pain to type lengthy posts on the cell phone - sorry for the lack of response.

I'm not sure whether to defend myself or thank you for the face punch. In my defense - after round two of this I tried not to be a doormat. I bullied them into selling their house and moving to this retirement community which has independent living, where they are, and assisted living and memory care, so they'd have progressing levels of support. They refused to move near me or my sister because dad has hayfever. I thought this would work, there are meals provided and housekeeping and a doctor on site, and options to upgrade care when needed. I thought I had taken care of it til this all happened again. So yeah, now I see my mom without dad's daily supervision needs assisted living but I can't move their entire household without knowing dad's prognosis.

But reading your post did light a new fire under my butt. I snuck out to the nurse's desk after reading it and they found a hospital social worker for me, who printed out a list of home assistance providers, and for $3k a month, they can give my mom assistance for 4 hours a day. $3k is nothing for them, they FI/RED at 47 and their net worth has been going up, not down since then. We have an appointment set for tomorrow noon with one of the companies who might be able to start as soon as tomorrow to give me a day of overlap before the weekend so I can give them the lay of the land, and then I can fly home this weekend. So --- THANK YOU for the facial bruises! 

But you.  How are you doing? You've been doing caretaking for a MIL you had just met for 5 years now??? Do you need face punches? Do you have enough support?


Is there any way you could tell them you have to go back to work? (Without saying, ďfor myself, doing what I want to do.Ē?).

I'm going to talk through this with my husband when I get home, it's a good idea and one I hadn't considered. For all the rest of you - yeah, at least do this. I could have said "I'm cutting back my hours" and not mentioned I was cutting them back to zero and saved myself a lot of grief.

Dicey

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2018, 02:05:42 AM »
Oh Jakejake, that's a great update! Despite the face punch [albeit gentle] I passed out, your original post made me so sad. This news is much better. I hope things continue to improve. 《HUGS》

My MIL is crazy healthy, so I have it much easier. Plus DH and his son are here to help, so we manage as a team. I did take MIL to check out a Senior Day Care Center this week. We've been prepping her by telling her she was going to be going to Summer Camp. We toured the place and it was fine, but I could tell she was pissed. Couldn't figure out why until I realized she thought it was "sleep away camp", not "day camp". Now that we've got that figured out, I have hope. Lots of tests to do and mountains of paperwork to complete, plus three assessments, including a home visit, to get through. Fingers crossed.

Speaking of facial bruises, I saw a friend at a luncheon today. Her 95 lb. dog pulled her off her feel and she face planted
straight into the street. It's been nine days and she still looks a fright. My first thought on seeing her colorful mug was, "Wow, some facepunch." At least she didn't break any bones.

Have a safe flight home!

chasesfish

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2018, 06:01:21 AM »
Thanks for the thread!  This is also a facepunch for me to remember for two reasons:

- I have the one area code rule with my family, we must be at least one area code away.  A couple hour drive, not a problem.  15 minutes away, you're at their every calling.

- I'm going to have to think carefully about what I say publicly given the amount of fiscal irresponsibility in my family.  Early retiree will be viewed as too obnoxious for them. 

Congrats on the hospital social worker conversation, good work @Jakejake

Bird In Hand

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2018, 06:27:23 AM »
- I have the one area code rule with my family, we must be at least one area code away.  A couple hour drive, not a problem.  15 minutes away, you're at their every calling.

Hahah, I love that rule.  My wife and I live at least an 8 hour drive from the closest family, and it's a double edged sword.  While I regret that our kids don't see their grandparents or cousins very often, at least we're not sucked into the endless family drama.  I know that if we lived in the same town we'd constantly be expected to bail out family members from self-inflicted problems -- financial and otherwise.  This probably sounds a bit callous, but every time we get off the phone with one of our parents or siblings after hearing the latest drama, my wife and I talk about how thankful we are that we live so far from it all.

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2018, 06:59:35 AM »
Nope.  The bull market helps significantly though.  I'd probably think a bit differently if the market had moved the other direction.

Mr. Green

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2018, 12:34:57 PM »
My only regret was thinking we could change everything when we FIRE'd. We moved to another state, planned to build a house, and attempted to start a family. I ended up having panic attacks and in therapy.  That's not a grip against FIRE, though, merely my emotionless engineer mind that thought doing all that at once would be no problem. I've gotten over my issues though and FIRE is great. My wife joins me in 3 weeks and the real fun begins.

SwordGuy

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2018, 04:38:11 PM »
Only two regrets:

1) I didn't know about these concepts at age 30 so I could have FIRED 10 to 15 years ago.

2) OMY wasn't really needed, but we did it. 

RedmondStash

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2018, 05:05:59 PM »
My six months of FIRE hasn't been easy for me (see this thread for more info: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/difficult-fire-decompressiontransition-anyone/), but even with all that, I have no regrets at all.

I'd be dealing with detoxing/decompressing whenever I did finally retire; there's no avoiding paying that piper. Now I get to get that out of the way ASAP, and then settle down to enjoying life more.

It is lovely being able to grocery shop whenever, not being in a hurry when we hit traffic slowdowns and roadwork, and generally enjoying binge watching whatever the hell I want. My world is expanding and becoming gentler, slowing down, getting more peaceful. It was a really hard transition to make, leaving a job I'd mostly enjoyed -- change is hard -- but I am very glad now that I did it.

I wouldn't be surprised if I take on more paid work of some sort at some point. But I wouldn't be surprised if I don't. Life is quiet. I like quiet.

thriftycanadian

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2018, 08:21:19 AM »
I reckon most of us here are used to being super productive work machines, that is one main reason why we are able to fire in the first place.  To switch that off is sometimes not easy.  Combine that with the expectations of North American work culture of retire at 65 or beyond.  This is something I have been working through and trying to prepare for myself.

That said, part of my fire plan is to do work I enjoy, whether its a fun part time job, or start an online business of sorts.  Just to stay sharp, while having much more bandwidth in life to do things I enjoy, and spend time with people I care about.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 08:24:21 AM by thriftycanadian »

DreamFIRE

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2018, 02:22:35 PM »
I reckon most of us here are used to being super productive work machines,

Work machines, most who spend multiple hours per day at work doing non-work activities:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/how-much-time-do-you-actually-spend-working-at-work/

boarder42

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2018, 06:41:21 PM »
I reckon most of us here are used to being super productive work machines,

Work machines, most who spend multiple hours per day at work doing non-work activities:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/how-much-time-do-you-actually-spend-working-at-work/
Yep most of us are posting here

boarder42

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2018, 06:43:54 PM »
This thread is super useful. Both the family aspect and I wish it was sooner. I'ma at a crossroads. We've hit over 750k invested and it's gonna snow ball doesn't really matter how much more we make or save at this point it'll hit 2MM fire goal easily. Going to be doing some thought studies this year on how to downshift sooner.

I'd be interested to see how many people may have been able to accomplish doing solely the areas of their job they love bc I love parts of my job and hate others. And I can add value to both my clients and my company by only billing and doing work in the areas I actually enjoy.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 06:50:28 PM by boarder42 »

chasesfish

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2018, 05:52:56 AM »
This thread is super useful. Both the family aspect and I wish it was sooner. I'ma at a crossroads. We've hit over 750k invested and it's gonna snow ball doesn't really matter how much more we make or save at this point it'll hit 2MM fire goal easily. Going to be doing some thought studies this year on how to downshift sooner.

I'd be interested to see how many people may have been able to accomplish doing solely the areas of their job they love bc I love parts of my job and hate others. And I can add value to both my clients and my company by only billing and doing work in the areas I actually enjoy.

I'd say make sure you have at least $100,000 of the net worth in regular taxable investments then do it.  Life is too short to do the miserable stuff at work once you don't have to.

ender

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2018, 06:33:29 AM »
I'd be interested to see how many people may have been able to accomplish doing solely the areas of their job they love bc I love parts of my job and hate others. And I can add value to both my clients and my company by only billing and doing work in the areas I actually enjoy.

Most people think the backlash will be a lot more than it will be for doing this sort of thing.

Very few jobs have crappy work that you have to do or face imminent termination. Many jobs have the opposite, focusing on the things you like result in doing more meaningful things, meaning your employer finds more value in your work.

Malkynn

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2018, 08:37:55 AM »
This thread is super useful. Both the family aspect and I wish it was sooner. I'ma at a crossroads. We've hit over 750k invested and it's gonna snow ball doesn't really matter how much more we make or save at this point it'll hit 2MM fire goal easily. Going to be doing some thought studies this year on how to downshift sooner.

I'd be interested to see how many people may have been able to accomplish doing solely the areas of their job they love bc I love parts of my job and hate others. And I can add value to both my clients and my company by only billing and doing work in the areas I actually enjoy.

I canít get rid of everything in my day job that I dislike, but over 2 years, Iíve steadily eliminated ~90% of it, and within a year, I expect to get rid of even more. Itís taken time to get the staff that I need to work the way I want to, but we just added a major puzzle piece, so Iím expecting the last big drop in non-preferred tasks, which will be awesome.

In my side hustles, Iíve simply just refused to incorporate any business aspects that I donít want to do. I thought this would slow down growth because it means passing up on obvious growth opportunities, but itís had the opposite effect. Because Iíve rejected several obvious routes for growth, itís made me and my partner have to think far more creatively and as a result, we keep generating less obvious models, which are paying off significantly in differentiating us from the competition and putting us ahead of the curve in a rapidly changing market.

Surprisingly, Iíve actually found that the more I stick to my guns of refusing to do what I donít want to do, the more productive and valuable Iíve become. I thought that putting my personal well being first would put a drag on my career, but instead itís boosted it because I no longer waste time and energy doing garbage work, which leaves me with a lot more time and energy to play to my strengths.

I used to think my value as an employee was that I could handle anything and would always do the jobs that no one else wanted to do, and I would do it with a smile on my face...and yes, that made me very valuable in my position and employers would want me to stay in that exact position, forever, doing that shit work with a smile on my face because no one else would ever be willing to replace me and my smiling shit work. I made myself irreplaceable but also completely stuck in a role doing shit forever. I prided myself on my unfailing loyalty and the value that gave me.

Now, the more I only do what I enjoy, the more I get exceptional results, the more valuable I become to employers/clients, and the more negotiating power I have to not do work I donít want to do. I make my employers/clients astutely aware that I will bail on them in a hot second if I find myself unhappy working with them and that my loyalty is 100% contingent on my needs being met.

I kind of fell into this by accident when an injury forced me to refuse to do a lot of unpleasant work and I had to establish my value despite what I couldnít do. I thought I was fucked.
I switched from doing what others didnít want to, to prioritizing what I could excel at, and I was shocked to find that it worked out SO MUCH BETTER for me.

Hopefully shedding the unpleasantness of your work will have similar results for you.

MandalayVA

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2018, 10:16:23 AM »
My only regret was thinking we could change everything when we FIRE'd. We moved to another state, planned to build a house, and attempted to start a family. I ended up having panic attacks and in therapy.  That's not a grip against FIRE, though, merely my emotionless engineer mind that thought doing all that at once would be no problem. I've gotten over my issues though and FIRE is great. My wife joins me in 3 weeks and the real fun begins.

SO MUCH THIS.  It's only been very recently that I've grown some mammaries and set down some boundaries, and things have gotten a lot better as a result.

RedmondStash

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2018, 04:47:16 PM »
SO MUCH THIS.  It's only been very recently that I've grown some mammaries and set down some boundaries, and things have gotten a lot better as a result.

Nice turn of phrase there. :)

scottish

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2018, 06:15:21 PM »
This thread is super useful. Both the family aspect and I wish it was sooner. I'ma at a crossroads. We've hit over 750k invested and it's gonna snow ball doesn't really matter how much more we make or save at this point it'll hit 2MM fire goal easily. Going to be doing some thought studies this year on how to downshift sooner.

I'd be interested to see how many people may have been able to accomplish doing solely the areas of their job they love bc I love parts of my job and hate others. And I can add value to both my clients and my company by only billing and doing work in the areas I actually enjoy.

I canít get rid of everything in my day job that I dislike, but over 2 years, Iíve steadily eliminated ~90% of it, and within a year, I expect to get rid of even more. Itís taken time to get the staff that I need to work the way I want to, but we just added a major puzzle piece, so Iím expecting the last big drop in non-preferred tasks, which will be awesome.

In my side hustles, Iíve simply just refused to incorporate any business aspects that I donít want to do. I thought this would slow down growth because it means passing up on obvious growth opportunities, but itís had the opposite effect. Because Iíve rejected several obvious routes for growth, itís made me and my partner have to think far more creatively and as a result, we keep generating less obvious models, which are paying off significantly in differentiating us from the competition and putting us ahead of the curve in a rapidly changing market.

Surprisingly, Iíve actually found that the more I stick to my guns of refusing to do what I donít want to do, the more productive and valuable Iíve become. I thought that putting my personal well being first would put a drag on my career, but instead itís boosted it because I no longer waste time and energy doing garbage work, which leaves me with a lot more time and energy to play to my strengths.

I used to think my value as an employee was that I could handle anything and would always do the jobs that no one else wanted to do, and I would do it with a smile on my face...and yes, that made me very valuable in my position and employers would want me to stay in that exact position, forever, doing that shit work with a smile on my face because no one else would ever be willing to replace me and my smiling shit work. I made myself irreplaceable but also completely stuck in a role doing shit forever. I prided myself on my unfailing loyalty and the value that gave me.

Now, the more I only do what I enjoy, the more I get exceptional results, the more valuable I become to employers/clients, and the more negotiating power I have to not do work I donít want to do. I make my employers/clients astutely aware that I will bail on them in a hot second if I find myself unhappy working with them and that my loyalty is 100% contingent on my needs being met.

I kind of fell into this by accident when an injury forced me to refuse to do a lot of unpleasant work and I had to establish my value despite what I couldnít do. I thought I was fucked.
I switched from doing what others didnít want to, to prioritizing what I could excel at, and I was shocked to find that it worked out SO MUCH BETTER for me.

Hopefully shedding the unpleasantness of your work will have similar results for you.

I've started doing that as well.   I now prioritize my work by what *I* want to achieve, not what I think the business needs.   If I don't want to do it, it goes to the bottom of the priority list.   I'm enjoying my work much more now.


chasesfish

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2018, 05:50:16 AM »
I did a simple exercise at work this year when a counterpart gave me some advice:

Take one sheet of paper, write down on the left side what you don't enjoy and on the right side what you do enjoy.

Just attempt to do as much of the right side as possible and ignore the left when available. 

Repeat until the boss tells you to stop

MishMash

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2018, 06:51:19 AM »
Two years into it, I don't regret doing it, but I regret letting my family know. I had no clue the extent to which they would view me as their personal on call servant/home care health worker, like if work doesn't own me, everyone's free to claim my time except myself.

My sibling who didn't manage her finances as well and is still working, I guess my parents' plan is to reward her with total freedom and to saddle me with permanent responsibility for watching my mom with dementia while dad's in the hospital and then residential rehab or hospice depending how this goes. And then I'm under orders to move my mom to my state against her will to live near me so my golden years can be spent caring for her.

I'm so angry and filled with resentment, especially since when their parents (my grandparents) were all dealing with lingering deaths from cancer or dementia that lasted decades, my parents didn't lift a finger to help with day to day care, they traveled the world enjoying their own early retirement and dumped the responsibility on their siblings (who were all still working full time jobs).

My husband Fire'd in April, I'm about a thousand miles away from him right now living in a freaking retirement community with my mother at the moment with no specific end date. It's the third time in the two years I've been retired I've been told "get a one way plane ticket tomorrow to come down here, you might be here a few weeks".

I would have been happier just working in a lot of ways - and it's not like they can't afford to hire full time care for my mom, she just refuses to acknowledge she needs it so this is their easy way out. I feel like I'm gonna punch out a window though every time they tell someone I'm down here on a vacation.

IF YOU DO IT, DON'T TELL YOUR FAMILY UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.

I'm in your position now to, except it's care for my 71 yr old toddler father in law.  DH has 4 other siblings and they all threw this on us, with one literally saying, well I can't have him lay around all day in MY house, he'd aggravate me.  As in it's TOTALLY OK for him to do that here because "we don't have children" and I'm not working (DH has a few years until his pension kicks in).  He lost his shit this past week and called us every name in the book because we sat him down to do a budget.  After a year of this DH told him to get the fuck out of our house two days ago.  We learned a lot about DHs family this year.  Largely that they are all fucking assholes who care about no one but themselves.

Jakejake

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2018, 03:13:08 PM »

I'm in your position now to, except it's care for my 71 yr old toddler father in law.  DH has 4 other siblings and they all threw this on us, with one literally saying, well I can't have him lay around all day in MY house, he'd aggravate me.  As in it's TOTALLY OK for him to do that here because "we don't have children" and I'm not working (DH has a few years until his pension kicks in).  He lost his shit this past week and called us every name in the book because we sat him down to do a budget.  After a year of this DH told him to get the fuck out of our house two days ago.  We learned a lot about DHs family this year.  Largely that they are all fucking assholes who care about no one but themselves.

If I could give you a big bear hug right now I would. At least my issue was my own parents ... I'm wondering what's up with all the husbands volundrafting their spouses to become home health care/day care workers. 

Can you take the advice I got here, to suddenly get yourself employed so that looking after him isn't an option? And once he's out, you can promptly quit the job but not tell your family?  If you take a job, then you could possibly call social services (211 in many areas) and get guidance on where to place him if he's not competent or healthy enough to live on his own anymore. Or if his finances are the only problem, they can help with low income housing. And if that pisses him off, so be it. He can ask the other siblings to chip in for an upgrade to his living quarters.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2018, 06:36:03 PM »
If I could give you a big bear hug right now I would. At least my issue was my own parents ... I'm wondering what's up with all the husbands volundrafting their spouses to become home health care/day care workers. 

Wait, is this a thing?  I didn't notice that in MishMash's post -- the only thing she said about her husband is that his siblings are awful and he kicked his father out of the house for bad behavior.  I didn't notice it in Dicey's post either.  She said she and her husband and son take care of MIL as a team.  Did your husband 'volundraft' you to take care of your parents?

Jakejake

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2018, 07:09:27 PM »
Wait, is this a thing?  I didn't notice that in MishMash's post -- the only thing she said about her husband is that his siblings are awful and he kicked his father out of the house for bad behavior.  I didn't notice it in Dicey's post either.  She said she and her husband and son take care of MIL as a team.
What I meant was that they both somehow got stuck as a long term stay-at-home care taker for their husband's parent. Maybe they both on their own each said "Hey, this is a thing I would really like to do - this is the life I want to have." I was reading between the lines that they both got shoved into that role, but maybe I made some bad assumptions.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2018, 07:38:21 PM »
What I meant was that they both somehow got stuck as a long term stay-at-home care taker for their husband's parent. Maybe they both on their own each said "Hey, this is a thing I would really like to do - this is the life I want to have."

Well no, I don't imagine they did say that.  And I don't imagine their husbands did either.

Quote
I was reading between the lines that they both got shoved into that role, but maybe I made some bad assumptions.

I don't think anyone is ever thrilled about the prospect of taking care of someone with alzheimer's and/or dementia.  It can be a miserable thing to go through.  I'm not sure I'd make the leap that anyone helping to take care of a spouse's parent must have been forced into it though.  In times of need we sometimes have to make sacrifices to support our spouses or others we love.  For better or for worse and all that.

Jakejake

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2018, 08:19:16 PM »
After more contemplation about my situation, and this thread - I had a talk with my daughter today.  She's in her 30's, I'm in my early 50's, so we're old enough that we should be talking these things through. I made it clear that we have enough money that she can hire care for me, put me in independent or assisted living with whatever services I need, and she needs to do that completely guilt free rather than feeling obligated to move me into her home when the time comes. We had a good talk about how there are sometimes cultural expectations that family will take care of its own, but also sometimes I think family isn't the best equipped to handle that stuff. We don't have the medical training, the training to know how to lift people properly after a fall, and there is all that baggage of parental/child role reversals. A neutral third party in a professional role has a lot of advantages if you can find one you trust. 

Dicey

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2018, 10:44:07 PM »
Dicey here. I actually did volunteer, kinda. DH's sister is schizophrenic and not on her meds. She is conniving and smart. She knows how to work the system and is a total mooch. She is not welcome to visit (she actually doesn't know where we live), which is fucking sad, but a must for our sanity and her mother's safety. DH's brother is retired, but he wouldn't have the first clue how to manage his mom's care. He does handle her finances. All I can do is cross my fingers and hope that everything is fine on that front. He will pitch in and help if we are desperate. Average? 3-5 days per year. And yes, he does live nearby and he's her favorite, which MIL makes blatantly clear.

I hated my job, and really was ready to pull the trigger. One little old lady who can't remember If she's had breakfast is a lot easier than dealing with 100 customers in a cutthroat business with a mill that had no clue how to treat their customers decently, so there's that.

What I didn't expect is to be five years in, with no end in sight. She hasn't had so much as a sniffle in all this time. She's getting worse, but it is so gradual, it's pretty hard to tell. I am grateful for the resources I have, but honestly, I am getting tired of this shit, which is totally not her fault.

We are working on getting her into a daycare program - correction, I am working on getting her into a program, which hopefully will save my sanity.

That's probably TMI and I don't know if any actual questions were answered, but it always feels helpful to vent here, so thanks!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 04:45:51 AM by Dicey »

englishteacheralex

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2018, 12:26:53 AM »
Good for you, Dicey! Daycare for MIL sounds like a great idea.

MishMash

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2018, 05:10:27 AM »
If I could give you a big bear hug right now I would. At least my issue was my own parents ... I'm wondering what's up with all the husbands volundrafting their spouses to become home health care/day care workers. 

Wait, is this a thing?  I didn't notice that in MishMash's post -- the only thing she said about her husband is that his siblings are awful and he kicked his father out of the house for bad behavior.  I didn't notice it in Dicey's post either.  She said she and her husband and son take care of MIL as a team.  Did your husband 'volundraft' you to take care of your parents?

Oh yea I got volundrafted.  I quit my job, it was supposed to be for a couple of months, but I ended up getting badly injured and needing spinal surgery last year.  So when he moved out here I was supposed to take care of him.  Which fine, I get it, I wasn't working.  What we DIDN'T know at the time is yea he had a back injury like mine but his was MUCH better.  That he had 100k in debt, is quite possibly the laziest human being I've ever met, and despite the rest of his family saying he might have dementia and that he "needs to be rescued" He's TOTALLY with it (per doctors).  To top it all off he's sexist as they come. 

We thought when he came that he WANTED to change.  That he realized living in his own feces and his dogs (literally) was not the way to be.  We thought he had come to the realization that he wasn't going to be earning 300k a year anymore and that his income was now 10% and he wanted help adjusting.  Nope. Over the past year it has become evident he was just looking for someone to take care of his life for him while he spent outside his means.  Like we literally gave him thousands for a debt settlement because he didn't have the cash.  What did he do a month later, rack up that SAME amount on a new credit card for one of these pay for investment websites.

The GTFO moment came when we overheard him bitching to someone on the phone about how dare we try to make him live on a budget and how dare we try to do one for him.  He doesn't need a budget, he lives day by day.  Tossed in that my husband was weak because he doesn't stand up to me in his dads defense (because he agrees with me) and that we've "abused the privilege of having him in our household for long enough".  That was the final straw, we bought him a plane ticket and he leaves to go back to living in an extended stay hotel in CA that he can't afford.  We've essentially written off DHs entire family for this one. 

Dicey

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2018, 05:34:24 AM »
Wow. I guess overhearing that conversation was kind of a gift.

YHD

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2018, 11:22:29 AM »

Surprisingly, Iíve actually found that the more I stick to my guns of refusing to do what I donít want to do, the more productive and valuable Iíve become. I thought that putting my personal well being first would put a drag on my career, but instead itís boosted it because I no longer waste time and energy doing garbage work, which leaves me with a lot more time and energy to play to my strengths.
 ...
Now, the more I only do what I enjoy, the more I get exceptional results, the more valuable I become to employers/clients, and the more negotiating power I have to not do work I donít want to do. 


so much this.  i was tagged as not being a team player because i prioritized what i wanted to do and learn professionally over sucking up shit and sucking up to shits.  all the beyotches (men and women) who carped and carped about how i'm only interested in myself...outlasted, outperformed and out-accomplished every single one of them.  that was a happy byproduct of building my strengths to be exceptional rather than working on my weakness to barely make it to mediocre.

albireo13

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2018, 04:30:15 AM »
I'm not retired yet but just have moved my folks near is in a CCRC.   They are where they need to be for services, etc.  My 94yo Dad still insists on driving and my 88yo Mom has beginnings of dementia.
I don't mind putting off retirement a few more years for several reasons:

1. we are the sandwich generation.  Our youngest is 21yo and the kids are still boomeranging occasionally, due to life and financial events.  I want to keep my earned income awhile longer until they stabilize
2.  If I retire, my Mom will expect me to be visiting everyday for every little thing, even though it's a 45min drive each way. It would drive me nuts

My parents have become my biggest source of stress in my life.  My Mom is constantly calling during the day spiralling over minor stuff, even though she knows I'm at work. Paranoia has set in also.  She is convinced people are stealing things, even though she constantly.  Lately, she is missing a coat and is convinced my wife took it and gave it to her Mom.   The regular calls about my wife "stealing" is getting old.

Jakejake

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2018, 07:16:47 AM »
2.  If I retire, my Mom will expect me to be visiting everyday for every little thing, even though it's a 45min drive each way.
Some of the best advice I think in this thread is the idea that you can retire and not tell them - so don't let that be the reason you keep working, once you are ready and want to retire. I also think it might be time to let her know management has talked to you about taking personal calls at work, and you have to let her calls go to voicemail during work hours. 

Dicey

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2018, 07:27:26 AM »
I'm not retired yet but just have moved my folks near is in a CCRC.   They are where they need to be for services, etc.  My 94yo Dad still insists on driving and my 88yo Mom has beginnings of dementia.
I don't mind putting off retirement a few more years for several reasons:

1. we are the sandwich generation.  Our youngest is 21yo and the kids are still boomeranging occasionally, due to life and financial events.  I want to keep my earned income awhile longer until they stabilize
2.  If I retire, my Mom will expect me to be visiting everyday for every little thing, even though it's a 45min drive each way. It would drive me nuts

My parents have become my biggest source of stress in my life.  My Mom is constantly calling during the day spiralling over minor stuff, even though she knows I'm at work. Paranoia has set in also.  She is convinced people are stealing things, even though she constantly.  Lately, she is missing a coat and is convinced my wife took it and gave it to her Mom.   The regular calls about my wife "stealing" is getting old.
This is such a hallmark of this fucking disease! It's just a way of compensating for losing things. Just keep translating "someone stole X" into "Mom can't find X". When my MIL doesn't want to do something - typically grooming related, she always says "I just had it done when I was visiting my sister in [sister's town]." No, you have never visited your sister in [sister's town]. How the hell does she remember where her sister lives? Further, Sister resents MIL because when their own mother had ALZ, MIL shipped her off to Sister, and apparently never once visited. For ten years!

The only comfort when this shit happens is knowing that It's not her, it's the disease. Please, please make sure your wife understands this. In my MIL's case, I think she might have some guilt over how she treated her Mom and Sister. Perhaps your MIL knows in her gut she wasn't as nice to your wife as she could have been.

I was going to add another thing, but I see Jakejake has that point covered.