Author Topic: An army of jobless men  (Read 2925 times)

Livewell

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An army of jobless men
« on: February 24, 2017, 11:01:18 AM »
Came across this graphic on an investment site I read, had to share as I think it captures both the "hell yeah that's why I want to FIRE" and the false view of many in our society that if you don't have a job you are skipping out on your "responsibilities".


Original source: http://www.aei.org/multimedia/an-army-of-jobless-men/

dude

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 11:20:56 AM »
HAHAHAHA!! I love that graphic!

bacchi

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 01:40:38 PM »
The AEI... Of course they want people to work harder and buy more shit.

maizeman

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 06:20:06 PM »
That is awesome.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 06:22:41 PM »
Nice! Sounds like they still spend way too much time working everyday, IMO. Perhaps there is a need for an officer in such an army, really whip them into FIRE shape.
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less4success

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 10:01:16 PM »
The article felt kind of pointless since it didn't explore the reasons behind the drop.

It would have made more sense to bucket the "not in the labor force" men into stay-at-home dads, FIREd, disabled, disillusioned, etc.

LAGuy

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 10:18:25 AM »
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/our-miserable-21st-century/

Here's a pretty good article on the subject. I kind of doubt people like us show up as much more than a blip in the statistics, but it is an interesting topic as to why people across the financial and political spectrum seem to be increasing rejecting work.

maizeman

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 10:53:57 AM »
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/our-miserable-21st-century/

Here's a pretty good article on the subject. I kind of doubt people like us show up as much more than a blip in the statistics, but it is an interesting topic as to why people across the financial and political spectrum seem to be increasing rejecting work.

That article seemed to be more about why work is rejecting people than people rejecting work.

Interesting read, but I got annoyed once the author starting trying to handwave aside the statistical issues with the Case and Deaton studies of increasing middle age mortality.* The author clearly has an ax to grind, which is fine if the article is still a way to find out interesting new data and interpretations, but when I start seeing misleading statements about the information where I have outside knowledge it makes it harder to take the other info at face value.

*The average person between the ages of 45-54 in the USA is older than they were in the past. This of this as there being a higher ratio of 54 year olds to 45 year olds. Obvious a group with more 54 year olds will be more likely to die in a given year than a group of the same size where 45 year olds predominate.




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HBFI

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 12:10:55 PM »
I can't wait to join this army.  In fact, I may sign up as a recruiter...Though wouldn't that be an inherent contradiction?  Bah, I need to go lay down and relax.  Wouldn't want to skew the AEI's source data by doing something productive.

Abe

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2017, 09:26:01 PM »
That commentary magazine article at least explains who's taking all the Vicodin! But in all seriousness, it sucks that their life has become crap. Has anyone offered a reasonable solution to their problem (other than kick out all the illegal immigrants and go back to manual farming for the next 5 years that is a thing?)

LAGuy

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 08:52:52 PM »
That commentary magazine article at least explains who's taking all the Vicodin! But in all seriousness, it sucks that their life has become crap. Has anyone offered a reasonable solution to their problem (other than kick out all the illegal immigrants and go back to manual farming for the next 5 years that is a thing?)

Well, the left would probably suggest some sort of universal basic income. The right would probably try to implement more of their indentured servitude policies; ie no health insurance for you unless you get it through your employer.

Personally, I'm not really sure it's a problem for the individuals involved at least. In a lot of cases they seem perfectly happy to be living in moms basement playing video games or watching TV while the wife brings home all the money. This is really more of a problem for policy makers and economists who are always rooting around for ways to increase macro productivity. I also wonder if the stats are really catching everybody. I mean the gig economy is all the rage today. Everybody got a side hustle these days that's often the main hustle. Maybe those layabouts are working, but just some of the time. Maybe they drive Uber now and then so they've got some money to go buy video games and fast food. Or, they're like me...just working half the year and bumming around the other half. I'm not sure what I'd report if they were asking me what my work situation was.

LibrarianFuzz

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2017, 12:05:52 PM »
Personally, I'm not really sure it's a problem for the individuals involved at least. In a lot of cases they seem perfectly happy to be living in moms basement playing video games or watching TV while the wife brings home all the money.

Um, yeah, that was my ex-husband. I suspect that many of the men in this group are not FIRE'd men, as you are striving for, but rather men who simply aren't interested in working when they can have someone else support them, thus freeing them up to watch television and play video games all day.

Glad I wised up so fast and got the heck out of that train wreck.

Landlady

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 12:25:26 PM »
I'm sure data on women's unemployment was not collected in the 50s, but I do wonder if part of the increase in "soldiers" can be credited to more equal employment AND unemployment between the sexes. In other words, the option to be employed in the leisure army became a more available option.

Also, this chart seems to be presented just to have readers guess at the causes which are no doubt informed by biases just as my first paragraph is.

Go army!

maizeman

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 01:08:22 PM »
I'm sure data on women's unemployment was not collected in the 50s, but I do wonder if part of the increase in "soldiers" can be credited to more equal employment AND unemployment between the sexes. In other words, the option to be employed in the leisure army became a more available option.

Also, this chart seems to be presented just to have readers guess at the causes which are no doubt informed by biases just as my first paragraph is.

Go army!

It turns out such data was collected going back to at least the late 40s.



It does look like male labor force participation starts a slow decline in the early 70s at the same time the female labor force participation rate took off like a rocket, but since the turn of the millennium, both seem to be dropping at about the same rate. Somewhere I better there is also data on the frequency of two income households, one income (man works), one income (woman works), and no income households over time... I should go look for it.
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Abe

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Re: An army of jobless men
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 07:16:41 PM »
Ask, and you shall receive:
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/famee.htm

This is 2015 data, but just google the title of this report and replace the year to find prior years.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 07:18:18 PM by Abe »