Author Topic: Advice for Post-Fire  (Read 3911 times)

BlueHouse

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Advice for Post-Fire
« on: November 24, 2023, 04:44:09 PM »
I FIREd 2.5 years ago. 
I've been decompressing and doing some things that I've wanted to do in my daily life, and because I had such a big cash fund, I haven't even started to figure out how to optimize my post-fire spenddown.  I have about another year's worth of cash and I need to figure out the best way forward.  I'm looking for advice (either specific for me, or general topics to read up on) about how to plan now for my future spenddowns. 

Here are some things I've been keeping an eye on (or that I think are important for my situation)

1.  56 y.o. 
2.  On ACA, and the subsidy that I now qualify for seems to be key for me in keeping my expenses below 4%.  I think I need to try to keep that subsidy as long as I can, or at least most years for the next 15 years.  It will save me 8-10k per year. 
3.  I'll have to start withdrawing money soon.  Last year I had taxable dividends of $18k and I converted $14k from tIRA to Roth to create enough income to keep me off Medicaid.
4.  Keeping my taxes low is the other thing I try to control, so I'm trying to avoid tax cliffs too.  This may be less important than I've thought, but I'm unsure. 
5.  I have 3 buckets:  tIRA, Roth, taxable.   All bonds are in tIRA because that's where they were 5 years ago.  Should I start loading up bonds in Roth so I can use some of that income over the next 15 years?
6.  I think I want to start getting as much as I can out of traditional and into Roth as fast as I can, as long as it doesn't drive up my taxes.

Summary:  I think ACA and taxes are my biggest concerns, but am I missing a bigger picture out there?  I think I screwed up some things because I'm just doing the simplest possible without thinking. 

What else should I consider for my plan for spend down?  Is there a case study for Post-fire?

iluvzbeach

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2023, 07:45:22 PM »
PTF as we’re looking at the same things right now.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2023, 08:12:41 PM »
I recommend doing SOME planning for these things but not letting money optimization run your life.

More important is to explore your personal values, and build a life that lets you express that. 

You have "won the game".  Go live your 'best life'!

RWTL

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2023, 06:05:53 AM »
I FIREd 2.5 years ago. 
I've been decompressing and doing some things that I've wanted to do in my daily life, and because I had such a big cash fund, I haven't even started to figure out how to optimize my post-fire spenddown.  I have about another year's worth of cash and I need to figure out the best way forward.  I'm looking for advice (either specific for me, or general topics to read up on) about how to plan now for my future spenddowns. 

Here are some things I've been keeping an eye on (or that I think are important for my situation)

1.  56 y.o. 
2.  On ACA, and the subsidy that I now qualify for seems to be key for me in keeping my expenses below 4%.  I think I need to try to keep that subsidy as long as I can, or at least most years for the next 15 years.  It will save me 8-10k per year. 
3.  I'll have to start withdrawing money soon.  Last year I had taxable dividends of $18k and I converted $14k from tIRA to Roth to create enough income to keep me off Medicaid.
4.  Keeping my taxes low is the other thing I try to control, so I'm trying to avoid tax cliffs too.  This may be less important than I've thought, but I'm unsure. 
5.  I have 3 buckets:  tIRA, Roth, taxable.   All bonds are in tIRA because that's where they were 5 years ago.  Should I start loading up bonds in Roth so I can use some of that income over the next 15 years?
6.  I think I want to start getting as much as I can out of traditional and into Roth as fast as I can, as long as it doesn't drive up my taxes.

Summary:  I think ACA and taxes are my biggest concerns, but am I missing a bigger picture out there?  I think I screwed up some things because I'm just doing the simplest possible without thinking. 

What else should I consider for my plan for spend down?  Is there a case study for Post-fire?

What percent of the total do your tIRA, Roth, and taxable accounts represent?  It's a good idea to convert from tIRA to Roth, but not completely.  You'll want a little income down the road so that your standard deduction negates the tax rather than convert it now by paying tax.  It's a balance.

2sk22

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2023, 06:49:24 AM »
Roth conversion, whether and how much, is a multi-dimensional optimization problem :-)

I found this great thread on Bogleheads which collects all possible factors that could affect results:

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417041

This is a good summary:

Quote
Possibility you may go from joint to single filer someday (spouse passes away), and how many years like that
How many years Spouse 1 works
How many years Spouse 2 works
When taking Social Security
Will there be years with low income for Roth conversions
Will there be years you can spend down the tax deferred efficiently
IRMAA impacts for Medicare
ACA impacts if early retired
Changes in 2026 brackets under current law
Changes in 2026 standard deduction under current law
Heirs' future bracket
Planned charitable giving
NIT 3.8% on dividends
Impact on Social Security taxation
ROTH IRA eligibility
Major medical expenses
Capital gains tax brackets
Possibility of moving to higher/lower tax state
Possibility of current state changing tax rates
How will pay the conversion tax.
More efficiently filling estate limit space with Roth (tax-deferred will cause more to go over limit, especially after 2026).
Impact on college financial aid and tax credits.
Impact for Roth contribution eligibility

MDM

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2023, 10:42:44 AM »
1.  56 y.o. 
2.  On ACA, and the subsidy that I now qualify for seems to be key for me in keeping my expenses below 4%.  I think I need to try to keep that subsidy as long as I can, or at least most years for the next 15 years.  It will save me 8-10k per year.
If you have a Marketplace plan, you can keep it until your Medicare coverage starts, so that may be 9 years instead of 15. 

Quote
5.  I have 3 buckets:  tIRA, Roth, taxable.   All bonds are in tIRA because that's where they were 5 years ago.  Should I start loading up bonds in Roth so I can use some of that income over the next 15 years?
Because you've already had a Roth IRA for a couple of years, once you reach age 59.5 you can withdraw anything you want, tax and penalty-free, from any Roth IRA you have.

Quote
6.  I think I want to start getting as much as I can out of traditional and into Roth as fast as I can, as long as it doesn't drive up my taxes.
See Roth Conversion and Capital Gains On ACA Health Insurance.  If you do the analysis suggested there, what does it tell you?

lhamo

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2023, 12:14:23 PM »
I'm in a similar position.  Was feeling quite some angst due to available cash dwindling quickly as I look at spending 100-200k over the next year or so fixing up the age-in-place house I just bought.  Some things that have brought me peace of mind, in rough order of their significance (not in the order I did them):

1)  Looked up how much I have in Roth contributions that I could tap if I really need to.  Obviously this is not my first option, as it is highly preferable to keep that money invested and growing tax free as long as possible.  But since I had a Roth 403b in my last job that I contributed to over 7-8 years, that is actually a pretty big chunk (110k+ in my case).  Gotta say when I found the paperwork from the rollover that confirmed that chunk had been documented properly I was HUGELY relieved.  I also have another 30kish in contributions to my personal Roth + 30k in a conversion I did in 2018 that are currently tappable.  And I'll have another 20k or so in more recent conversions that will become tappable in 2025 and 2026.  SO overall I have about 190k in my Roth contribution/conversion bucket that I can use before age 59.5 if I need to.  Again, the weight this knowledge took off my shoulders is hard to describe.

2)  Looking at potential cash flow needs and my anxiety about the markets, I decided to cash out about 25k I had in an index fund in my brokerage a couple of weeks ago.  In hindsight I should have waited as things continued to go up -- would have harvested nearly $1800 more in capital gains if I sold yesterday instead -- but again, the peace of mind of having more of a cash cushion was probably worth it to me.  Like you I need to be careful about when/how I harvest my gains in order not to mess up my bigger tax and health coverage picture, but I think I should be able to spread out sales over the year during times when the market is doing well to continue to maintain a comfortable cash buffer.

3)  I am also starting to move portions of the Roth accounts that I might need to tap into money market or other less volatile funds.  That way if the markets tank at least I still have those funds available if I need them.  Yes, this may dampen my returns somewhat, but for me the peace of mind is worth it.  I already moved the 30k in 2018 conversions to a MM bucket.  Need to look more closely at the rest and decide when to move those funds around.  Note that I am NOT cashing the Roth money out at this point -- just moving money within the accounts to buckets that are less likely to leak/slosh about as the markets do their thing.  I think that will help calm my brain down if the markets start dropping again.

4)  RE-worked my SS estimates and discovered that with the past couple of years of inflation my estimated benefit at age 70 is now 57k, up from the 42k it was when I last ran the numbers a couple of years ago.  That is a HUGE change for me as now SS is likely to cover my entire expenses in my later years.  Yes, I know the benefits will probably be reduced, I still need to plan for long term care, yadda yadda, but if we're talking about what helps psychologically that piece was huge for me.

5)  I also plugged my new estimated budgets, including the estimated renovation costs, into the main planning spreadsheets I have come to rely on.  Those are the bogleheads retirement sheet (great for estimating Roth conversion strategies in particular) and the Fidelity Retirement Income Planner or whatever they call it now.  Both confirm that I should be find financially even if I spend up to 200k next year on the renovations. 

One thing that has become abundantly clear to me over the past few weeks/months:  As my cash stash has decreased, my anxiety has gone through the roof, especially with the volatility we have seen in the markets.  I seem to do best when I have at least 2-5 years of basic living expenses + planned large expenses readily available to access without any risk of the market taking them away, or at least a solid plan for getting myself to that point.  It may dampen my returns over time, but that is how my brain works.  IF I don't have enough perceived "security" my Inner Bag Lady starts running amok.

Oh, a couple of weeks ago when I was in the thick of my anxious spinning I was looking for jobs.  Not doing that any more.  Still might try to pick up some PT flexible work, especially during the winter when I don't have other stuff to do, but not feeling the urgency to do it right at the moment. 

And one other thing I just thought of -- since you are on the glide path to 59.5/medicare eligibility/SS FRA, maybe consider being a little more mentally flexible about the 4% rule.  If you look at the Fidelity RIP table for my inputs, I don't hit a 4% WR from now until age 70 when I start taking SS.  BUT, I still have a pretty robust nest egg at that age (plus a nice house I could sell if I really needed money), and then once SS starts my WR goes to 0.  Granted, that is on a modest budget, but I'm pretty sure that even if I upped spending to splurge more on myself and family I will still be fine.  I'm more worried about the cash flow between now and age 59.5.  The bogleheads spreadsheet is also very reassuring because I can see how my Roth conversion strategy will help to minimize taxes both short- and long-term and gradually get my taxable buckets drawn down with pretty much everything else in Roths and my house.  Anyway, I guess my point is that it might be worth giving yourself a bit of mental flexibility about the 4% rule as you are in this last phase before penalty-free access to all your buckets + SS as a possible additional income stream arrive.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2023, 12:21:09 PM by lhamo »

BlueHouse

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2023, 02:38:41 PM »

What percent of the total do your tIRA, Roth, and taxable accounts represent?  It's a good idea to convert from tIRA to Roth, but not completely.  You'll want a little income down the road so that your standard deduction negates the tax rather than convert it now by paying tax.  It's a balance.

Taxable:  45%
Roth:  5%
tIRA:  50%

BlueHouse

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2023, 02:46:04 PM »
Roth conversion, whether and how much, is a multi-dimensional optimization problem :-)

I found this great thread on Bogleheads which collects all possible factors that could affect results:

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417041

This is a good summary:

Quote
Possibility you may go from joint to single filer someday (spouse passes away), and how many years like that
How many years Spouse 1 works
How many years Spouse 2 works
When taking Social Security
Will there be years with low income for Roth conversions
Will there be years you can spend down the tax deferred efficiently
IRMAA impacts for Medicare
ACA impacts if early retired
Changes in 2026 brackets under current law
Changes in 2026 standard deduction under current law
Heirs' future bracket
Planned charitable giving
NIT 3.8% on dividends
Impact on Social Security taxation
ROTH IRA eligibility
Major medical expenses
Capital gains tax brackets
Possibility of moving to higher/lower tax state
Possibility of current state changing tax rates
How will pay the conversion tax.
More efficiently filling estate limit space with Roth (tax-deferred will cause more to go over limit, especially after 2026).
Impact on college financial aid and tax credits.
Impact for Roth contribution eligibility
Great.  I can't wait to dig into this in more detail. The majority of these will have no impact (I'm single, no heirs, so I only have to think about me me me.)  Definitely the one concering me most right now is the Capital gains tax brackets.  i.e.: "Did I already miss an opportunity to cash out some cap gains because I focused too much on staying in 12% bracket last year?"

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2023, 03:11:55 PM »
Same boat. PTF.

BlueHouse

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2023, 03:18:36 PM »
If you have a Marketplace plan, you can keep it until your Medicare coverage starts, so that may be 9 years instead of 15. 
OMG, I cannot math!  for some reason, I kept thinking there are 15 years until I hit age 65!  Yikes!  Guess I should add dementia to my list of what ails me!

Quote
Quote
5.  I have 3 buckets:  tIRA, Roth, taxable.   All bonds are in tIRA because that's where they were 5 years ago.  Should I start loading up bonds in Roth so I can use some of that income over the next 15 years?
Because you've already had a Roth IRA for a couple of years, once you reach age 59.5 you can withdraw anything you want, tax and penalty-free, from any Roth IRA you have.

I've been thinking that I would use the Roth only when I need to avoid a cliff.  Not sure that's the greatest strategy, but if I have an $8K ACA penalty that I can avoid by taking a few thousand from Roth instead of from any of the other accounts then that's my plan.
Quote
Quote
6.  I think I want to start getting as much as I can out of traditional and into Roth as fast as I can, as long as it doesn't drive up my taxes.
See Roth Conversion and Capital Gains On ACA Health Insurance.  If you do the analysis suggested there, what does it tell you?
I did a quick analysis using info already in the spreadsheet from last year, but updating it with next year's ACA numbers (they're very different).  The net tax reads as -4500.  I think that means I have some room to do $4.5K of something....maybe selling a stock that I want to get rid of but that could cost dearly in capital gains.   I'll revise this worksheet carefully with all updated numbers from 2023 within the next few weeks. 

BlueHouse

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2023, 03:31:27 PM »
I recommend doing SOME planning for these things but not letting money optimization run your life.

More important is to explore your personal values, and build a life that lets you express that. 

You have "won the game".  Go live your 'best life'!
I'm all for this!  I just don't want to runout of money doing all the great things I've been doing.  :)

MDM

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2023, 04:05:45 PM »
I've been thinking that I would use the Roth only when I need to avoid a cliff.  Not sure that's the greatest strategy, but if I have an $8K ACA penalty that I can avoid by taking a few thousand from Roth instead of from any of the other accounts then that's my plan.
Don't know if it is the greatest, but at the least it's a very good one!  In general you want to postpone Roth withdrawals as long as possible, but if you need some cash and taking it from traditional or taxable would incur a very high marginal tax rate then Roth it is!

Quote
Quote
Quote
6.  I think I want to start getting as much as I can out of traditional and into Roth as fast as I can, as long as it doesn't drive up my taxes.
See Roth Conversion and Capital Gains On ACA Health Insurance.  If you do the analysis suggested there, what does it tell you?
I did a quick analysis using info already in the spreadsheet from last year, but updating it with next year's ACA numbers (they're very different).  The net tax reads as -4500.  I think that means I have some room to do $4.5K of something....maybe selling a stock that I want to get rid of but that could cost dearly in capital gains.   I'll revise this worksheet carefully with all updated numbers from 2023 within the next few weeks.
It's not the absolute tax due or refunded that matters, but rather how high the marginal tax rate you incur (i.e., avoiding something that will "cost dearly" is indeed a good thing to avoid).

How high is too high for you now will depend on the marginal tax rate you expect to pay when also receiving Social Security and perhaps Required Minimum Distributions (RMDs).  Have you tried estimating what that will be?  There is guesswork involved but see this link for a brief description of how you might do it.

iluvzbeach

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2023, 06:53:03 PM »
Thank you so much for all the responses thus far, @MDM & others. This info is really helpful.

@lhamo, my brain works similarly to yours so seeing your thoughts in writing is really helpful. My IBL is strong too!

mistymoney

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2023, 05:05:28 PM »
Thank you so much for all the responses thus far, @MDM & others. This info is really helpful.

@lhamo, my brain works similarly to yours so seeing your thoughts in writing is really helpful. My IBL is strong too!

IBL is the worst......been wrestling with mine lately.....she is messed up!

Turtle

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2023, 08:25:11 AM »
I've been pondering the best way to handle drawing down as well.  Taking out a full year's expenses all at once doesn't seem optimal. 

Contemplating maybe moving 1% out of stocks and into Money Market account 3 or 4 times a year, to maintain some dollar cost averaging.

BlueHouse

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2023, 09:21:50 AM »
I've been pondering the best way to handle drawing down as well.  Taking out a full year's expenses all at once doesn't seem optimal. 

Contemplating maybe moving 1% out of stocks and into Money Market account 3 or 4 times a year, to maintain some dollar cost averaging.

I feel as if I'll always have to maintain 1-2 years of cash just to keep myself free from worry, but I know that's really not optimal, so if I can find a way to feel less anxious about that, I'm looking for it.

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2023, 10:39:11 AM »
I've been pondering the best way to handle drawing down as well.  Taking out a full year's expenses all at once doesn't seem optimal. 

Contemplating maybe moving 1% out of stocks and into Money Market account 3 or 4 times a year, to maintain some dollar cost averaging.

I feel as if I'll always have to maintain 1-2 years of cash just to keep myself free from worry, but I know that's really not optimal, so if I can find a way to feel less anxious about that, I'm looking for it.
Laddered CDs might prove useful, now that rates have increased.

Holocene

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2023, 06:09:46 PM »
5.  I have 3 buckets:  tIRA, Roth, taxable.   All bonds are in tIRA because that's where they were 5 years ago.  Should I start loading up bonds in Roth so I can use some of that income over the next 15 years?

I wanted to comment specifically on this.  I think it's best to keep high growth funds (ie. stocks not bonds) in Roth.  All that extra growth is tax-free.  So your current strategy is a good one.

There's no reason that you need to move Roth money into bonds now.  You can still withdraw from the Roth when you need to, you'll just need to sell some stocks at that point.  If you'd rather be withdrawing from bonds, just sell some of your bonds to buy stocks in your tIRA at the same time as you sell stocks in your Roth for withdrawal.  The net effect will be the same.

So if you have $500k all in stocks in Roth and $500k all in bonds in Traditional and you need to withdraw $50k and want to sell only bonds to get this money from your Roth...

You would sell $50k of stocks from Roth.  Sell $50k of bonds in Traditional.  Buy $50k of stocks in Traditional.  So you now have $50k cash to spend, $450k stocks in Roth, $450k bonds in Trad, and $50k stocks in Trad.

You still have $500k total in stocks and you've effectively withdrawn $50k from bonds, despite withdrawing from your Roth which had no bonds in it!  But you didn't need to dampen the growth in your Roth until you actually needed to make the withdrawal.

I do think it makes sense to withdraw from Roth as needed to keep your AGI low enough to keep healthcare subsidies.

It's also important to start looking ahead at different dates where your income and financial situation might change, like the start of Medicare, start of Social Security, start of any pensions, RMDs.  At 63 (2 years before you start Medicare) and up, you need to take IRMAA into account, which could increase your Medicare premiums.  This is for incomes over $100k in 2024 for single filers, so if you're on ACA subsidies now, it probably won't affect you.  But it's another factor to consider. 

My goal would be to realize as much income (MAGI) as possible for the next 9 years while still keeping reasonable ACA subsidies.  Actually figuring out how much that is might be a bit more complicated.  But it's good that you're starting to think of these things now.  It could save you a lot down the line by being a bit proactive now.

BlueHouse

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2023, 08:06:28 AM »
5.  I have 3 buckets:  tIRA, Roth, taxable.   All bonds are in tIRA because that's where they were 5 years ago.  Should I start loading up bonds in Roth so I can use some of that income over the next 15 years?

I wanted to comment specifically on this.  I think it's best to keep high growth funds (ie. stocks not bonds) in Roth.  All that extra growth is tax-free.  So your current strategy is a good one.

There's no reason that you need to move Roth money into bonds now.  You can still withdraw from the Roth when you need to, you'll just need to sell some stocks at that point.  If you'd rather be withdrawing from bonds, just sell some of your bonds to buy stocks in your tIRA at the same time as you sell stocks in your Roth for withdrawal.  The net effect will be the same.



I understand this at a high level, but I also read in someone else's spend down strategy that they take from dividends first (they stopped reinvesting), and then sell shares in either stocks or bonds as they need.  I guess I'm not understanding whether it makes more sense to stop reinvesting dividends and use that as cash first.  In my case it probably doesn't matter because i'm so stock-heavy (75/25 stocks/bonds) that my dividends are low and will come nowhere near filling my cash needs for a year. 

MDM

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2023, 12:39:19 PM »
I understand this at a high level, but I also read in someone else's spend down strategy that they take from dividends first (they stopped reinvesting), and then sell shares in either stocks or bonds as they need.  I guess I'm not understanding whether it makes more sense to stop reinvesting dividends and use that as cash first.  In my case it probably doesn't matter because i'm so stock-heavy (75/25 stocks/bonds) that my dividends are low and will come nowhere near filling my cash needs for a year.
Dividends are taxed as soon as they are distributed, regardless of whether you reinvest them or not.

Assume the dividend goes directly into your checking account.  Would you
a) use that money for food, clothing, shelter, etc., or
b) transfer that money back to the brokerage and buy more shares of something?

Holocene

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2023, 06:01:41 PM »
Yeah definitely turn off dividend reinvestment in taxable accounts and use that money for your spending.  Because as mentioned, that money will be taxed no matter what.  Might as well spend it rather than creating more taxes by selling shares (likely capital gains tax) or withdrawing from pre-tax accounts.  Or losing some future tax advantage by taking more than needed out of Roth.

In retirement accounts, it doesn't matter if you reinvest dividends or not.  But some find it psychologically easier to spend dividend money than to sell shares of your investments to spend.  So just do whatever works best for you there.

Ron Scott

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2023, 07:23:23 AM »
Yeah definitely turn off dividend reinvestment in taxable accounts and use that money for your spending.  Because as mentioned, that money will be taxed no matter what.  Might as well spend it rather than creating more taxes by selling shares (likely capital gains tax) or withdrawing from pre-tax accounts.  Or losing some future tax advantage by taking more than needed out of Roth.

In retirement accounts, it doesn't matter if you reinvest dividends or not.  But some find it psychologically easier to spend dividend money than to sell shares of your investments to spend.  So just do whatever works best for you there.

Amen.

As a recommendation to the OP I’d suggest the Bogleheads wiki and the Bogleheads Guide to Retirement Planning, esp chapters 12 and 13.

Withdrawing needs to be done right…

codycat

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2023, 03:10:27 AM »
We've (wife & I) been dealing with this for almost 7 years now. At first we used standard deduction + HSA deduction to cover regular income (pension, interest, non-qual divs) and filled in the rest with Roth conversions. Then we took long cap-gain from the post-tax brokerage to reach the target ACA MAGI we had set. We would reinvest the proceeds from cap-gains if we didn't need them for cash flow. We target ACA MAGI to get a Bronze HSA eligible plan for pennies a month (8 cents/mth for 2023 and 2024). This results in a zero dollar federal income tax. The ACA insurance premium becomes a 16% tax on any income exceeding our target MAGI.

However recently we thought more about tax rates later in life when SocSec kicks in (waiting until age 70, 61 now). We were discussing whether to do Roth conversions into the 10% tax bracket. Since cap-gain rates are 15% and regular income is 10-12% at the lower end, we decided it made more sense to maximize cap-gains first before doing any Roth conversions. Once cap-gains are eaten up, we'll do Roth conversions at least up to the top of the 12% bracket, possibly into the 22% bracket. Just to be clear, our plan is zero Roth conversions until cap-gains are gone from now on. Your mileage may vary depending on how much unrealized gains you have.

We also plan to do as Holocene suggests, bonds & stocks in tIRA, stocks in Roth. If we need to withdraw Roth, re-balance the bonds in the tIRA, though we haven't had the need yet. We also turned off div/gain distribution reinvestment in the post-tax acct as soon as we retired as MDM suggests. For our own peace of mind we keep 2-3yrs of cash in the post-tax in short treasury ladders, at least that is earning > 5% now, the rest in stocks.

I'm sure we'll be fine no matter how we do this, but on the theme of enjoying life, I enjoy math!

4tify

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Re: Advice for Post-Fire
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2023, 05:29:03 PM »
Same boat here as OP, CA resident. This is my first year spending off the portfolio and I’ve run these numbers a bunch, also more recently taking future RMDs into account. As of now I’ve settled on:

- keeping interest/dividends + Roth conversions to around $45k (-$4850 for HSA contribution = $40k total income)
- this allows for ACA bronze plan at about $450/mo with subsidies. No subsidy is $850/mo! This is to keep PCP in network but I’m revisiting this as well
- federal + CA state tax should come in under under $1k
- @65 yrs I can accelerate Roth conversions to max out tax bracket since Medicare won’t be affected.

It’s a dance. Doesn’t seem like something I’ll ever perfect but this seems to cover the bases ok.