Author Topic: 2017 ACA plan info now available  (Read 31376 times)

rayt168

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #150 on: November 12, 2016, 12:09:28 PM »
Well, the latest news is the Trump may considering amending the ACA rather than repealing it after talking to Obama. Either way he wants to keep the pre-existing conditions clause and the ability to keep children on until age 26. We will see what actually happens.

This is a very good article. 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/12/donald-trump-is-beginning-to-face-a-rude-awakening-over-obamacare/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_wb-obamacare-1004am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory


ckosh

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #151 on: November 12, 2016, 12:36:17 PM »
I encourage people to write and call their senators and representatives.  Let them know their actions will be judged at election time. In the past 24 hours, re-creating high risk pools has been floated.

I don't have any serious conditions, but when I was between jobs over a decade ago  and tried to get insurance, even having asthma as a child was considered a pre-existing condition which invalidated respiratory conditions coverage.  I'd hate to develop anything serious to be only able to buy in high risk pools since from what I understood pre-Obamacare, if you could get in high risk pool coverage, there wasn't any caps on what you could be charged.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #152 on: November 12, 2016, 08:41:30 PM »
Well, the latest news is the Trump may considering amending the ACA rather than repealing it after talking to Obama. Either way he wants to keep the pre-existing conditions clause and the ability to keep children on until age 26. We will see what actually happens.

This is a very good article. 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/12/donald-trump-is-beginning-to-face-a-rude-awakening-over-obamacare/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_wb-obamacare-1004am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Yes Steven Pearlstein is a really good business writer for the Washington Post.

Reynold

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #153 on: November 17, 2016, 02:02:40 PM »
Same. I've only been really serious about FIRE for the past couple years so I just took for granted that I would be able to purchase reasonable healthcare via the ACA. I feel like my entire FIRE plan has been shaken to the core. I still believe we will be able to retire early but I'm padding my numbers a lot more to account for the cost of healthcare and long term care.

Expecting something like this to happen is the main reason DW and I have not FIREd yet.  I was crunching numbers even in early 2016, and getting yearly health care spending based on our recent medical needs and ages that would be noticeably higher than MMMs entire yearly spending.  We also were, and are, not willing to assume that the subsidy program will remain the same over the next couple of decades, so we weren't going to assume that bringing our on paper income to super low levels would zero that out.  Some other government programs are asset tested, not just income tested, like Medicaid, so who knows if that might come along.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #154 on: November 18, 2016, 10:34:11 AM »
And now if Paul Ryan gets his Medicare changes through, we might be looking at delayed Medicare eligibility to age 67 or 70. Such a delay would require us to continue to get private health insurance on during an age when the premiums would almost certainly be extremely expensive.

slackmax

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #155 on: November 28, 2016, 07:48:30 PM »
I recall health insurance costs going up quite a bit before ACA.

The underlying problem is health costs in this country.  The ACA sought to get more people in the insurance system, while providing some very real benefits for all of us like requiring coverage for pre existing conditions.  It needs some fixing but going back to the old system is not a step forward, in terms of costs or benefits for all.

Speaking of the old system and looking to be pragmatic about the ACA's chances, for you older FIRE folks what did you do before it?

Back when I was 50 and the ACA was several years away, I went without any health ins for 2 years, and luckily did not need it. Then I got a great job that I liked which had health ins. Had that job for 6 years. Got fired from that job, did not get another job, so had to pay for my own HI. Got HI for $239 a month with $10,000 deductible.

 Paid the $239 a month for a year, never used a dime of the coverage, not even a physical, since I didn't trust the ins co to pay for it, even though they said they would.

Then ACA showed up and I got HI for $24 a month, $500 deductible and $500 max oop.  Wow. 

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #156 on: November 29, 2016, 07:35:09 AM »
It's looking more like the ACA will go away to be replaced by tax credits to be spent on private health insurance. I'm not sure if this is a refundable tax credit in case you don't pay enough taxes to benefit from the entire credit.

AdrianC

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #157 on: November 29, 2016, 11:02:47 AM »
 Price-o'care:

5 Things to Know About Rep. Tom Price's Health Care Ideas
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/11/29/50372067...

Tax credits, health savings accounts. No denial of coverage based on pre-existing conditions, but at what price? Let the market decide? Then millions will be without health insurance, again.

DavidAnnArbor

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WootWoot

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #159 on: November 29, 2016, 01:03:11 PM »
What I don't understand is why we can't find out what medications will be paid for by our new plan.

I'm supposed to purchase it first, and then find out later?

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #160 on: November 29, 2016, 01:29:52 PM »
The insurance company should have a pharmacy list that you can inquire about.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #161 on: November 29, 2016, 01:30:30 PM »
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/11/29/503720671/5-things-to-know-about-rep-tom-prices-health-care-ideas
From your article:
Quote
The Price proposal limits the amount of money companies can deduct from their taxes for employee health insurance expenses. Companies can deduct up to $20,000 for a family health insurance plan and $8,000 for an individual. The goal is to discourage companies from offering overly generous insurance benefits to their workers. Ryan's plan proposes a cap on the employer tax deduction but doesn't specify the level of the cap.
  From Cadillac Plan tax to this, what is the major government objection (on the left and the right) to employers offering really good insurance?

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #162 on: November 29, 2016, 01:50:47 PM »
From Cadillac Plan tax to this, what is the major government objection (on the left and the right) to employers offering really good insurance?

Employers can do what they want, but don't expect my tax dollars to subsidize it. Sound familiar ?

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #163 on: November 29, 2016, 03:01:02 PM »
From Cadillac Plan tax to this, what is the major government objection (on the left and the right) to employers offering really good insurance?

Employers can do what they want, but don't expect my tax dollars to subsidize it. Sound familiar ?
  This does not explain to me what the objection is, unless you are contending it is economic, and both the left and the right want to tax insurance benefits merely as a fiscal policy measure.  That does not sound correct (but it might be, I honestly do not know what the objection is, exactly).

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #164 on: November 29, 2016, 03:04:54 PM »
Apparently it was a feature of the Clinton healthcare plan of 1993.  Wikipedia gave me the justification.  Apparently, the thought is that the tax advantaged status of great insurance encourages businesses to use it as compensation and employees to use more healthcare, thus driving up the price of healthcare.

seattlecyclone

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #165 on: November 29, 2016, 04:48:00 PM »
From Cadillac Plan tax to this, what is the major government objection (on the left and the right) to employers offering really good insurance?

Employers can do what they want, but don't expect my tax dollars to subsidize it. Sound familiar ?
  This does not explain to me what the objection is, unless you are contending it is economic, and both the left and the right want to tax insurance benefits merely as a fiscal policy measure.  That does not sound correct (but it might be, I honestly do not know what the objection is, exactly).

It's really a fairness thing. Why should a company be able to buy health insurance for their employees tax-free, while someone who buys their own health insurance has to use post-tax dollars to pay for it? That doesn't make any real sense. Either allow everyone to deduct the full cost of self-purchased health insurance from their income, or remove the tax exemption from the employer benefit.
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AdrianC

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #167 on: November 29, 2016, 05:28:01 PM »
It's really a fairness thing. Why should a company be able to buy health insurance for their employees tax-free, while someone who buys their own health insurance has to use post-tax dollars to pay for it? That doesn't make any real sense. Either allow everyone to deduct the full cost of self-purchased health insurance from their income, or remove the tax exemption from the employer benefit.

I'll just point out that the self-employed can deduct the cost of health insurance. I do.

But I agree, it should be deductible for everyone.

seattlecyclone

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #168 on: November 29, 2016, 07:01:38 PM »
It's really a fairness thing. Why should a company be able to buy health insurance for their employees tax-free, while someone who buys their own health insurance has to use post-tax dollars to pay for it? That doesn't make any real sense. Either allow everyone to deduct the full cost of self-purchased health insurance from their income, or remove the tax exemption from the employer benefit.

I'll just point out that the self-employed can deduct the cost of health insurance. I do.

But I agree, it should be deductible for everyone.

Yep, self-employed people get the deduction. People who don't have jobs lose out, as do people who have jobs where the employer doesn't provide insurance.

For the sake of simplicity in the tax code I'd probably make it so that nobody gets to deduct health insurance, but extending it to everybody would fix the fairness issue just as well.
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Exflyboy

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #169 on: November 29, 2016, 11:30:45 PM »
Thats interesting, in our local area (using providers within 30 miles) I can get a bronze plan $6k deductable, $14k max OOP, but cannot get a silver plan.

All the silver plans have providers >30 miles away. Maybe not a huge deal considering we will be FIRED and our HC needs are light.

AdrianC

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #170 on: November 30, 2016, 09:03:35 AM »
It's looking more like the ACA will go away to be replaced by tax credits to be spent on private health insurance. I'm not sure if this is a refundable tax credit in case you don't pay enough taxes to benefit from the entire credit.

Price's plan has refundable tax credits:

http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/Section%20by%20Section%20of%20HR%202300%20Empowering%20Patients%20First%20Act%202015.pdf

Refundable Tax Credit for Health Insurance Coverage
 Provides for refundable, age adjusted tax credits with amounts tied to average insurance on individual
market adjusted for inflation.1
o $1,200 for those between 18 to 35 years of age
o $2,100 for those between 35 and 50 years of age
o $3,000 for those who are 50 years and older
o $900 per child up to age 18
 Tax credits would be available to those who purchase health insurance through the individual market.
Upon purchase, individuals would have the option of receiving an advanceable, refundable credit.


Exflyboy

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #171 on: November 30, 2016, 09:09:52 AM »
It's looking more like the ACA will go away to be replaced by tax credits to be spent on private health insurance. I'm not sure if this is a refundable tax credit in case you don't pay enough taxes to benefit from the entire credit.

Price's plan has refundable tax credits:

http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/Section%20by%20Section%20of%20HR%202300%20Empowering%20Patients%20First%20Act%202015.pdf

Refundable Tax Credit for Health Insurance Coverage
 Provides for refundable, age adjusted tax credits with amounts tied to average insurance on individual
market adjusted for inflation.1
o $1,200 for those between 18 to 35 years of age
o $2,100 for those between 35 and 50 years of age
o $3,000 for those who are 50 years and older
o $900 per child up to age 18
 Tax credits would be available to those who purchase health insurance through the individual market.
Upon purchase, individuals would have the option of receiving an advanceable, refundable credit.


Great, so if I read that right my $985/month silver plan (assuming we can even buy it for that price as individuals) will get $3k back if your 50 or older?

So my monthly would then be $735... not even counting deductables or max OOP.

Yeah that should work great!.. NOT!

rayt168

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #172 on: November 30, 2016, 09:14:37 AM »
It's looking more like the ACA will go away to be replaced by tax credits to be spent on private health insurance. I'm not sure if this is a refundable tax credit in case you don't pay enough taxes to benefit from the entire credit.

Price's plan has refundable tax credits:

http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/Section%20by%20Section%20of%20HR%202300%20Empowering%20Patients%20First%20Act%202015.pdf

Refundable Tax Credit for Health Insurance Coverage
 Provides for refundable, age adjusted tax credits with amounts tied to average insurance on individual
market adjusted for inflation.1
o $1,200 for those between 18 to 35 years of age
o $2,100 for those between 35 and 50 years of age
o $3,000 for those who are 50 years and older
o $900 per child up to age 18
 Tax credits would be available to those who purchase health insurance through the individual market.
Upon purchase, individuals would have the option of receiving an advanceable, refundable credit.


So my monthly would then be $735... not even counting deductables or max OOP.


Your monthly premium COULD be lower since Price's plans would not be as comprehensive as ACA which is rather nice if you don't need to utilize those services.   My two cents.

Exflyboy

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #173 on: November 30, 2016, 09:23:58 AM »
It also says individuals.. so I wonder if you get 2* that for a couple filing jointly.

If this (trainwreck) happens then presumably you need to pay more in taxes than the value of the credit to get the full credit.

To those in FIRE who artificially manipulate their income down to get max subsidy, will now draw more income to pay $6000 in fed taxes.. Oh and move to an income tax free State..:)

Naturally the poor get screwed though.

bacchi

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #174 on: November 30, 2016, 09:28:01 AM »
Your monthly premium COULD be lower since Price's plans would not be as comprehensive as ACA which is rather nice if you don't need to utilize those services.   My two cents.

Some of the ACA plans in my area don't cover "X-rays and diagnostic imaging" (who needs MRIs?) and "Laboratory and outpatient professional services."

I guess they could remove prescription coverage, too, or maybe start excluding certain diseases like the exclusionary riders of yore.

Exflyboy

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #175 on: November 30, 2016, 09:32:48 AM »
This is going to be a fucking mess.. a fucking expensive mess!

But thats what "we" voted for.

Can't wait for the coal miner's jobs to come back too, riiight.

Spork

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #176 on: November 30, 2016, 10:00:09 AM »
It also says individuals.. so I wonder if you get 2* that for a couple filing jointly.

If this (trainwreck) happens then presumably you need to pay more in taxes than the value of the credit to get the full credit.

To those in FIRE who artificially manipulate their income down to get max subsidy, will now draw more income to pay $6000 in fed taxes.. Oh and move to an income tax free State..:)

Naturally the poor get screwed though.

Or just manipulate your taxes up in the same manner as we've been manipulating them down.  In other words, do more tIRA->Roth conversions.

My main complaint is: Just pick a fucking system and lets go with it -- even if it is bad.  Uncertainty and change make markets jittery and cost money.
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Exflyboy

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #177 on: November 30, 2016, 10:16:42 AM »
It also says individuals.. so I wonder if you get 2* that for a couple filing jointly.

If this (trainwreck) happens then presumably you need to pay more in taxes than the value of the credit to get the full credit.

To those in FIRE who artificially manipulate their income down to get max subsidy, will now draw more income to pay $6000 in fed taxes.. Oh and move to an income tax free State..:)

Naturally the poor get screwed though.

Or just manipulate your taxes up in the same manner as we've been manipulating them down.  In other words, do more tIRA->Roth conversions.

My main complaint is: Just pick a fucking system and lets go with it -- even if it is bad.  Uncertainty and change make markets jittery and cost money.

True I dont have much in tIRA but I think you can roll 401k $$ into a TIRA then do the tIRA to Roth conversion.

Either way with a large stash your going to be better off than the majority of folk.. just a crying shame thats all.

geekette

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #178 on: November 30, 2016, 10:27:13 AM »
Our plan costs something like $1800/mo, so even $6k a year isn't much. Assuming, of course the insurance companies don't jack up the prices even more, and gee, why wouldn't they?

Exflyboy

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #179 on: November 30, 2016, 10:31:46 AM »
Yeah I think if those costs become a reality then ultimately we would sell the house and live abroad.. I'm a UK expat so upping sticks and leaving the country is not that big of a deal to me.

My US born Wife would find it harder though.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #180 on: November 30, 2016, 11:35:58 AM »
Our plan costs something like $1800/mo, so even $6k a year isn't much. Assuming, of course the insurance companies don't jack up the prices even more, and gee, why wouldn't they?
  They have to "jack up the prices even more" so long as they have to cover pre-existing conditions at the same rate as everybody without pre-existing conditions.  Insurers have lost billions selling on the exchanges.  The rates keep going up to try and cover the increased costs each year.  Insurers vastly underestimated the costs this new system would bring.

There are only two providers left in my geographic area on the exchange.  All the others quit to stem the blood loss.

Exflyboy

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #181 on: November 30, 2016, 11:44:10 AM »
And yet almost every developed nation does hc for one half to on third what it costs here in the US... Most advanced nation on Earth and we can't figure this out.

Of course the reason we "can't" figure this out is because some very powerful people are making lots and lots of money from the system exactly the way it is.. We even have laws specifically written to protect the madness.

Medicare can't negotiate drug prices? Can only buy them from US manufactures... Gimme a freaking break!

redrocker

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #182 on: November 30, 2016, 01:33:23 PM »
Insurers have lost billions selling on the exchanges.  (snip....)
There are only two providers left in my geographic area on the exchange.  All the others quit to stem the blood loss.

While that sounds terribly dramatic and technically true (ie, ~$2billion spread out across multiple insurance companies instead of untold "billions") let's not discount how much of a killing these same insurance companies have made for decades.

jim555

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #183 on: November 30, 2016, 01:44:14 PM »
Not everyone is losing money, I got a refund check from my insurance for last year because they overcharged and they are limited to how much profit they can make.

v8rx7guy

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #184 on: November 30, 2016, 02:20:39 PM »
It's looking more like the ACA will go away to be replaced by tax credits to be spent on private health insurance. I'm not sure if this is a refundable tax credit in case you don't pay enough taxes to benefit from the entire credit.

Price's plan has refundable tax credits:

http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/Section%20by%20Section%20of%20HR%202300%20Empowering%20Patients%20First%20Act%202015.pdf

Refundable Tax Credit for Health Insurance Coverage
 Provides for refundable, age adjusted tax credits with amounts tied to average insurance on individual
market adjusted for inflation.1
o $1,200 for those between 18 to 35 years of age
o $2,100 for those between 35 and 50 years of age
o $3,000 for those who are 50 years and older
o $900 per child up to age 18
 Tax credits would be available to those who purchase health insurance through the individual market.
Upon purchase, individuals would have the option of receiving an advanceable, refundable credit.


Great, so if I read that right my $985/month silver plan (assuming we can even buy it for that price as individuals) will get $3k back if your 50 or older?

So my monthly would then be $735... not even counting deductables or max OOP.

Yeah that should work great!.. NOT!

That's assuming that under "the new plan" your premiums would still have a base rate of $985/mo.  Who's to say that won't go down with other changes to policy?

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #185 on: November 30, 2016, 02:51:45 PM »
Insurers have lost billions selling on the exchanges.  (snip....)
There are only two providers left in my geographic area on the exchange.  All the others quit to stem the blood loss.

While that sounds terribly dramatic and technically true (ie, ~$2billion spread out across multiple insurance companies instead of untold "billions") let's not discount how much of a killing these same insurance companies have made for decades.

Why?  What does historical profits have to do with today?  Discussing decades ago company performance has nothing to do with what was written by the person to whom I was replying.  He was remarking that the insurance companies are raising prices this year, and will continue, just because they can.  No, they are raising them because of wildly inflated costs that were higher than anticipated, and they have to get government regulators to approve the price hikes.

What happened in 1991 has no relevance to this discussion.

Not everyone is losing money, I got a refund check from my insurance for last year because they overcharged and they are limited to how much profit they can make.
  Correct.  Not every insurance company is losing money.  Most, however, have, and this has left me with an ever dwindling choice of providers.  There were a bunch just a couple/three years ago.  For January, I have my choice of two.  Once of those covers none of the medical care providers my family uses, which really only leaves me with one insurance company on the exchange in my area.  Some areas do not have even that.  I hope your insurance company keeps kicking ass and sending you refund checks.  My 2016 insurer sent a notice that my policy will not be offered in 2017, and, of course, they are not an option on the exchange in my area.

The cheapest plan offered for 2017 is a 35% increase to my 2016 premium cost.

Exflyboy

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #186 on: November 30, 2016, 02:52:10 PM »
It's looking more like the ACA will go away to be replaced by tax credits to be spent on private health insurance. I'm not sure if this is a refundable tax credit in case you don't pay enough taxes to benefit from the entire credit.

Price's plan has refundable tax credits:

http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/Section%20by%20Section%20of%20HR%202300%20Empowering%20Patients%20First%20Act%202015.pdf

Refundable Tax Credit for Health Insurance Coverage
 Provides for refundable, age adjusted tax credits with amounts tied to average insurance on individual
market adjusted for inflation.1
o $1,200 for those between 18 to 35 years of age
o $2,100 for those between 35 and 50 years of age
o $3,000 for those who are 50 years and older
o $900 per child up to age 18
 Tax credits would be available to those who purchase health insurance through the individual market.
Upon purchase, individuals would have the option of receiving an advanceable, refundable credit.


Great, so if I read that right my $985/month silver plan (assuming we can even buy it for that price as individuals) will get $3k back if your 50 or older?

So my monthly would then be $735... not even counting deductables or max OOP.

Yeah that should work great!.. NOT!

That's assuming that under "the new plan" your premiums would still have a base rate of $985/mo.  Who's to say that won't go down with other changes to policy?

And who's to say they won't go up?.. Remember you are now one tiny individual negotiating with the insurance machine.. Right now we have the bargaining power of the whole State that sets the rates. All that bargaining power will be lost when your on your own.

Unless I suppose the State continues its oversight function?

Beisides which "changes" usually means "less coverage".. Call me cynical but the entire HC system is one giant fraud, excuse me if I don't feel all warm and fuzzy inside that they are suddenly going to cut me a deal.

redrocker

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #187 on: November 30, 2016, 03:15:26 PM »
Insurers have lost billions selling on the exchanges.  (snip....)
There are only two providers left in my geographic area on the exchange.  All the others quit to stem the blood loss.

While that sounds terribly dramatic and technically true (ie, ~$2billion spread out across multiple insurance companies instead of untold "billions") let's not discount how much of a killing these same insurance companies have made for decades.

Why?  What does historical profits have to do with today?  Discussing decades ago company performance has nothing to do with what was written by the person to whom I was replying.  He was remarking that the insurance companies are raising prices this year, and will continue, just because they can.  No, they are raising them because of wildly inflated costs that were higher than anticipated, and they have to get government regulators to approve the price hikes.

What happened in 1991 has no relevance to this discussion.

Not sure who appointed you the arbiter of what's relevant but I'd argue that the past is indeed relevant. Health insurance simply got accustomed to easy profits. Your seemingly misleading post about the industry hemorrhaging billions seemed like the usual hyperbole that accompanies any discussion of ACA and some historical context seemed apropos. Rather than adapt, some of the majors are simply choosing to leave citizens in the lurch. Which is what they used to do just in more indirect ways (pre-existing conditions, etc).  That's the point I was trying to make.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #188 on: November 30, 2016, 03:58:33 PM »
And many healthy people opted to take the penalty rather than pay for health insurance which meant that the remaining pool of insured were sicker than anticipated. The penalty was not severe enough. Also, people with longstanding problems would sign up for insurance, get the problem taken care of, and then stop paying the premiums. In addition, the government subsidies to pay for the insurance were not generous enough, with these steep cutoffs if you want $1 above in income.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #189 on: November 30, 2016, 04:00:24 PM »
Moreover, some geographic regions are only served by 1 hospital system, which gave them a lot of bargaining power to charge a lot more than other geographic regions. Finally, in some geographic regions, the standard of medical care could include a lot of costly unnecessary tests and medical procedures driving up costs. Basically greed was more important then effective medicine.

The ACA law provided funds for researching which standards of medical care were actually effective, but this research takes times to do, and now is likely to not continue under a Trump/Price administration.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 04:03:39 PM by DavidAnnArbor »

rayt168

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #190 on: November 30, 2016, 04:08:01 PM »
Sounds like the GOP is planning to move rather quickly.

Obamacare repeal[url]http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/308183-gop-leaders-aim-to-pass-obamacare-repeal-by-inauguration/url]

Although I am pro ACA, I don't care for how people are able to game the system by buying the insurance only when needed.  This only drives up the cost for the remaining folks. 

waltworks

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #191 on: November 30, 2016, 06:38:34 PM »
I'm guessing we're on a (very rough for a few years) road to single payer. ACA repeal -> costs continue to skyrocket -> people stop buying health insurance entirely -> system collapses.

Our local school system/county is already discussing setting up their own clinic/hiring own doctors. Interesting times.

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Exflyboy

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #192 on: November 30, 2016, 07:07:33 PM »
I'm guessing we're on a (very rough for a few years) road to single payer. ACA repeal -> costs continue to skyrocket -> people stop buying health insurance entirely -> system collapses.

Our local school system/county is already discussing setting up their own clinic/hiring own doctors. Interesting times.

-W

I hope your right Walt, of course single payer or not is not the root cause.. We have to cut the price of all things medical dramatically (like every other country in the developed world). Otherwise we will just have a single payer system that still costs almost 3 times what they pay in the UK.

Interesting times indeed.

Paul der Krake

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #193 on: November 30, 2016, 07:36:11 PM »
Our plan costs something like $1800/mo, so even $6k a year isn't much. Assuming, of course the insurance companies don't jack up the prices even more, and gee, why wouldn't they?
Just curious, have you thought about what your upper limit would be before you start packing your bags and moving somewhere with better options (domestically or abroad)?

$1,800 is like two mortgage payments in 95% of NC. How can you be okay with this? Why aren't there protesters outside elected officials' homes every day demanding a reining in of the costs?

AdrianC

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #194 on: December 01, 2016, 06:52:31 AM »
$1,800 is like two mortgage payments in 95% of NC. How can you be okay with this? Why aren't there protesters outside elected officials' homes every day demanding a reining in of the costs?

Most people don't pay anything like $1800/mo. For most people the cost of healthcare is opaque. Most people are on employer plans, Medicare or Medicaid. For the few on individual plans, most get a subsidy (currently).

No one has much sympathy for us lucky few on individual plans without subsidy.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #195 on: December 01, 2016, 08:26:41 AM »
The prices of these plans vary by age. Say you're 55-60 years old, you're going to be paying I believe 3 times as much as the 29 year old for the same exact plan. Other insurance cost variations stem from the prices the local health care system will charge.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #196 on: December 01, 2016, 11:13:17 AM »
$1,800 is like two mortgage payments in 95% of NC. How can you be okay with this? Why aren't there protesters outside elected officials' homes every day demanding a reining in of the costs?

Most people don't pay anything like $1800/mo. For most people the cost of healthcare is opaque. Most people are on employer plans, Medicare or Medicaid. For the few on individual plans, most get a subsidy (currently).

No one has much sympathy for us lucky few on individual plans without subsidy.
  Bingo!

For 2017, a Department of Health and Human Services Report "concluded that the majority of exchange customers would still be able to purchase insurance for less than $75 a month, thanks to tax credits provided by the law."  http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2016/11/28/obamacares-subsidies-are-no-excuse-for-high-premiums/#7fc43fd2449b

Quote
The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office found that despite enrollment shortfalls, exchange subsidies this year overran earlier estimates by $18 billion ó for a total cost of $56 billion. Thatís more than the federal government spends on the nationís highways.

But the feds canít cover everyoneís premiums forever. In fact, Obamacare caps the total amount in subsidies the government can pay out each year.

If the Affordable Care Act is still in place, beginning in 2019, and exchange subsidy spending exceeds 0.504 percent of GDP, the government will require some marketplace enrollees to cover a larger share of their premiums. And with subsidies growing as fast as they are, that cap is likely to be breached earlier than expected.

Metric Mouse

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #197 on: December 03, 2016, 06:04:55 AM »


Quote
The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office found that despite enrollment shortfalls, exchange subsidies this year overran earlier estimates by $18 billion ó for a total cost of $56 billion. Thatís more than the federal government spends on the nationís highways.

But the feds canít cover everyoneís premiums forever. In fact, Obamacare caps the total amount in subsidies the government can pay out each year.

If the Affordable Care Act is still in place, beginning in 2019, and exchange subsidy spending exceeds 0.504 percent of GDP, the government will require some marketplace enrollees to cover a larger share of their premiums. And with subsidies growing as fast as they are, that cap is likely to be breached earlier than expected.

Interesting. I wonder how this will play into congresses' plans to reform the ACA...
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OutlierinMA

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #198 on: December 04, 2016, 10:33:14 AM »
Just looked at the MA Connector website - my current plan ($286 Silver HSA-eligible HMO) is gone after this year, automatically replaced with a non-HSA-eligible HMO costing $525, the cheapest plan available from my current insurer in 2017. I looked but couldn't find an HSA-eligible replacement. I'll probably replace with something in the $330/year range from another insurer; hopefully my doctor is in the network, as these plans offer no out of network coverage. Does anyone else live in MA, and have you found an HSA-eligible policy? I guess no insurance provider wants to meet the $6,600 maximum out of pocket required. It will be too bad if no-one is able to fund their HSA because none of the policies qualify.

Even with the changes in the plan offerings this year, I'm grateful that I live in MA, home of Romney-Care, so a repeal of ACA shouldn't change much here, knock on wood. But the thought of ACA repeal nationwide is pretty scary. Back to people going bankrupt to cover health care costs.

It would be great if Republicans would consider a combination of
1) private catastrophic health insurance required to be purchased by those over a certain income level who theoretically could afford self-insurance for regular expenses, plus
2) single-payer coverage for everyone else.

Seems like that could work, especially if they added a second layer of single-payer coverage up to the catastrophic deductible (for those ineligible for the full single-payer coverage but not wealthy) to avoid a "cliff" effect with unaffordable results for folks with chronic diseases.



Metric Mouse

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Re: 2017 ACA plan info now available
« Reply #199 on: December 04, 2016, 11:23:28 AM »
Just looked at the MA Connector website - my current plan ($286 Silver HSA-eligible HMO) is gone after this year, automatically replaced with a non-HSA-eligible HMO costing $525, the cheapest plan available from my current insurer in 2017. I looked but couldn't find an HSA-eligible replacement. I'll probably replace with something in the $330/year range from another insurer; hopefully my doctor is in the network, as these plans offer no out of network coverage. Does anyone else live in MA, and have you found an HSA-eligible policy? I guess no insurance provider wants to meet the $6,600 maximum out of pocket required. It will be too bad if no-one is able to fund their HSA because none of the policies qualify.

Even with the changes in the plan offerings this year, I'm grateful that I live in MA, home of Romney-Care, so a repeal of ACA shouldn't change much here, knock on wood. But the thought of ACA repeal nationwide is pretty scary. Back to people going bankrupt to cover health care costs.

It would be great if Republicans would consider a combination of
1) private catastrophic health insurance required to be purchased by those over a certain income level who theoretically could afford self-insurance for regular expenses, plus
2) single-payer coverage for everyone else.

Seems like that could work, especially if they added a second layer of single-payer coverage up to the catastrophic deductible (for those ineligible for the full single-payer coverage but not wealthy) to avoid a "cliff" effect with unaffordable results for folks with chronic diseases.

Why not just single payer for everyone?
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