Author Topic: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?  (Read 8207 times)

Tom Bri

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Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« on: April 14, 2020, 05:34:08 AM »
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/americans_play_politics_with_their_lives_even_when_it_comes_to_covid_19

Rasmussen poll says many would refuse hydroxychloroquine even if they had Covid-19, and it's apparently a political decision.
Would you? Why?
I have given it to patients and so far no one has refused it.
Seriously, this is insane. In fact, I think it's mainly big talkers, and most of these people would take it if their doctors advised.

js82

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2020, 05:58:57 AM »
Me?  Probably, if my doctor recommended.  I'm of an age(30's) and physical condition where I'm unlikely to have adverse effects from the disease, and also don't have any conditions that are problematic for the use hydroxychloroquine.  If I were sick enough to be hospitalized, I would take it if prescribed - but I wouldn't ask for it preemptively prior to hospitalization.  But again - in my case the discussion is likely to be mostly moot.

If we were to extend the question to whether I'd recommend for my parents - in one case probably yes, in the other case possibly not(would need to consult with someone more familiar with the specific risk profile for the drug) - due to their medical situations and the potential risks versus benefits.

This is why I think we really need to keep gathering more data on efficacy.  Those most likely to have issues with this virus are those with certain conditions that put them at higher risk - unfortunately compared with the general population, there's more overlap in this group of those that are at risk from some of the side effects, and those that are most likely to need additional treatment to help them to survive the virus.  Understanding how much benefit patients get from this drug is critical to helping doctors to make a risk vs. benefit decision on when/when not to prescribe it.

To me, the most frustrating part of this is that we *could* have a much larger dataset on the effectiveness of this drug - and yet right now we have a couple small trials plus a large number of anecdotal accounts - if the latter could be turned into numerical data(even if imperfect) it'd help advance the conversation of - is this a "wonder drug", mildly beneficial, or something where(for certain patients) the risks outweigh the benefits?

(disclaimer - I'm not a doctor - I'm a non-medical scientist who has read the published studies on hydroxychloroquine and thinks there's enough evidence to support further testing and an emergency use authorization, but not enough to proclaim it a wonder drug.)


The shame is that this whole situation could have been largely avoided had President Trump simply elected to have a medical professional handle the medical questions - to come up on stage and talk about hydroxychloroquine and its potential benefits and explain the "why" of the situation to the public, rather than try to set himself up for a "if it works, I'll be a hero and get the credit for it" moment.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 07:17:04 AM by js82 »

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2020, 06:16:39 AM »
I've taken hydroxychloroquine in the past when traveling for a few weeks in regions with malaria. While it does have some side effects, if I'm to the point where I'm going to the doctor, I would consider those side effects trivial. So I would take it.

A relative of mine took it during the Vietnam war, and has indicated that he really would rather never take it again if at all possible. Of course, I'm pretty sure if he was diagnosed with COVID-19, and it was prescribed by his doctor, he would take it.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2020, 06:57:02 AM »
I would never take anything recommended by an orange guy who thinks McDonalds is food, and gets most of his information from television.

scantee

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2020, 07:21:34 AM »
I mean, if my doctor recommended it, sure, I would take it. The efficacy data for This drug for covid-19 in particular looks to be pretty middling. It’s certainly no wonder drug, rather it works okay for some people at certain stages of the disease.

Stepping back, I hate poll questions like this. Why is this even a question to survey? Clearly they want or are looking for a political divide in responses to this question which is why they are asking in the first place but it’s clear the data are garbage. In real life, almost everyone is going to do what their care team suggests.

EvenSteven

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2020, 09:10:22 AM »
The evidence for efficacy of HCQ in the treatment of COVID19 seems to be extremely weak. But the evidence seems much stronger in the treatment of autoimmune diseases, like lupus.

Patients who take HCQ for things like lupus are now unable to get the medicine they need because of the demand for treatment in COVID19. I would not take it, and let someone who actually needs it and would benefit from it have it.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-versus-covid-19/

bacchi

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2020, 09:21:08 AM »
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/americans_play_politics_with_their_lives_even_when_it_comes_to_covid_19

Rasmussen poll says many would refuse hydroxychloroquine even if they had Covid-19, and it's apparently a political decision.
Would you? Why?
I have given it to patients and so far no one has refused it.
Seriously, this is insane. In fact, I think it's mainly big talkers, and most of these people would take it if their doctors advised.

Rasmussen plays politics with its polls.

The evidence is specious. We'll know more in a few months when the real clinical studies are finishing.

Until then, I wouldn't take it. Unless I end up at Duke, where a study is going on, and my doctor is looking at the early, promising, results.

Kris

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2020, 09:37:24 AM »
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/americans_play_politics_with_their_lives_even_when_it_comes_to_covid_19

Rasmussen poll says many would refuse hydroxychloroquine even if they had Covid-19, and it's apparently a political decision.
Would you? Why?
I have given it to patients and so far no one has refused it.
Seriously, this is insane. In fact, I think it's mainly big talkers, and most of these people would take it if their doctors advised.

Rasmussen plays politics with its polls.

The evidence is specious. We'll know more in a few months when the real clinical studies are finishing.

Until then, I wouldn't take it. Unless I end up at Duke, where a study is going on, and my doctor is looking at the early, promising, results.

Exactly. The wording of the questions is... questionable, and the conclusions they draw in that article (and the leading language they use) are also pretty slanted.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 10:20:46 AM by Kris »

nereo

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2020, 09:59:20 AM »
With our current knowledge if my doctor recommended me taking hydroxychloroquine for coved-19 I would... find a new doctor. Seriously, the evidence that it will help is scant at best.  Also, having had to take it before as an anti-malaria drug I (and my brother) experienced some pretty serious side effects. Social distancing and self-isolation is way preferable to me than going through that again.

geekette

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2020, 11:16:27 AM »
I’d consider being part of a study, if I get Covid-19. I’d really rather avoid it!

Interesting YouTube from SciShow, on the history of chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine, how it’s thought to work for malaria and lupus, and why some think it might work on Covid (but that studies are needed).

I always wondered why someone decided it even might work, so this was a good, short explanation for me.

GuitarStv

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2020, 05:31:47 AM »
I prefer quinine.  Preferable with lime and gin.

tralfamadorian

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2020, 08:55:32 AM »
I would change doctors since I'm severely allergic to sulfa drugs.

However, to add my 2c to the intented question- from a layman's view, signs appears to point to the dosage needed to be effective against coronavirus as high enough to cause severe and possibly life-threatening side effects.

I've been skeptical- though still hopeful- about the effectiveness of the anti-malarials since listening to this podcast where they interviewed a coronavirologist, which was recorded before the orange one's proclamations. The podcast is long so to summarize, the coronavirologist discusses anti-malarials as a potential treatment saying that they often do well in vitro but have never panned in vivo for coronaviruses in the past.
 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 09:01:04 AM by tralfamadorian »


GuitarStv

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2020, 02:25:16 PM »
Who the hell feels any need to prove Trump's stupidity at this point?  It's not even contested by most of his supporters.

Pizzabrewer

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2020, 03:14:18 PM »
I’d prefer to try Remdesivir. It seems to have more science backing it up as a potentially effective treatment.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 03:27:03 PM by Pizzabrewer »

scottish

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2020, 03:40:02 PM »
I already take hydroxychloroquine.    I would rather not, but the consequences (systemic lupus) are considerably worse than the side effects.

The drug is reasonably low risk on normal doses, which are <= 400mg / day.     Unlike the other immuno-suppressants I'm familiar with, it does not have a black label warning.

The first thing to understand is that immuno-suppressants are toxic.    When you first start taking plaquenil you can expect to feel unwell, a bit like a permanent mild hangover.   It took me about 6 weeks to get over these side effects.   It's also teratogenic, which means it's known to cause birth defects.    If I wanted to have more kids, I would have to discontinue the drug for several months and risk the disease.

The second thing to understand is that plaquenil takes about 30 days before it starts affecting your immune system.    I don't think it's going to help with the 'cytokine storm' I read about with covid 19.   Maybe it causes problems for the virus directly.

And my final comment is that the dosages I'm reading about are 800 or 1000 mg/day, i..e over twice the normal dosage.    I don't know what this does to the toxicity, but it's going to be a lot worse than a mild hangover at this level.


Tom Bri

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2020, 04:18:01 PM »
I already take hydroxychloroquine.    I would rather not, but the consequences (systemic lupus) are considerably worse than the side effects.

The drug is reasonably low risk on normal doses, which are <= 400mg / day.     Unlike the other immuno-suppressants I'm familiar with, it does not have a black label warning.

The first thing to understand is that immuno-suppressants are toxic.    When you first start taking plaquenil you can expect to feel unwell, a bit like a permanent mild hangover.   It took me about 6 weeks to get over these side effects.   It's also teratogenic, which means it's known to cause birth defects.    If I wanted to have more kids, I would have to discontinue the drug for several months and risk the disease.

The second thing to understand is that plaquenil takes about 30 days before it starts affecting your immune system.    I don't think it's going to help with the 'cytokine storm' I read about with covid 19.   Maybe it causes problems for the virus directly.

And my final comment is that the dosages I'm reading about are 800 or 1000 mg/day, i..e over twice the normal dosage.    I don't know what this does to the toxicity, but it's going to be a lot worse than a mild hangover at this level.

I took it when I was in the Peace Corps, as a malaria prophylactic. It caused bad dreams but no other side effect for me, at the low doses we took.

Currently we are giving 400mg twice a day for two days, then 200mg twice a day for 3 more days to our patients suspected of or tested positive.

The worrisome side effect is a change in heart rhythm. All of our covid patients are treated on a critical care unit or ICU, so they are all on cardiac telemetry monitoring continuously. If that side effect shows up, we stop the HCQ. It's no big deal. Maybe other hospitals don't monitor cardiac rhythms?

HPstache

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2020, 04:21:18 PM »
I already take hydroxychloroquine.    I would rather not, but the consequences (systemic lupus) are considerably worse than the side effects.

The drug is reasonably low risk on normal doses, which are <= 400mg / day.     Unlike the other immuno-suppressants I'm familiar with, it does not have a black label warning.

The first thing to understand is that immuno-suppressants are toxic.    When you first start taking plaquenil you can expect to feel unwell, a bit like a permanent mild hangover.   It took me about 6 weeks to get over these side effects.   It's also teratogenic, which means it's known to cause birth defects.    If I wanted to have more kids, I would have to discontinue the drug for several months and risk the disease.

The second thing to understand is that plaquenil takes about 30 days before it starts affecting your immune system.    I don't think it's going to help with the 'cytokine storm' I read about with covid 19.   Maybe it causes problems for the virus directly.

And my final comment is that the dosages I'm reading about are 800 or 1000 mg/day, i..e over twice the normal dosage.    I don't know what this does to the toxicity, but it's going to be a lot worse than a mild hangover at this level.

I took it when I was in the Peace Corps, as a malaria prophylactic. It caused bad dreams but no other side effect for me, at the low doses we took.

Currently we are giving 400mg twice a day for two days, then 200mg twice a day for 3 more days to our patients suspected of or tested positive.

The worrisome side effect is a change in heart rhythm. All of our covid patients are treated on a critical care unit or ICU, so they are all on cardiac telemetry monitoring continuously. If that side effect shows up, we stop the HCQ. It's no big deal. Maybe other hospitals don't monitor cardiac rhythms?

What have you seen so far for results?  What is your read on whether it works to prevent the really bad symptoms & progression of COVID-19?

Tom Bri

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2020, 10:03:33 PM »


I took it when I was in the Peace Corps, as a malaria prophylactic. It caused bad dreams but no other side effect for me, at the low doses we took.

Currently we are giving 400mg twice a day for two days, then 200mg twice a day for 3 more days to our patients suspected of or tested positive.

The worrisome side effect is a change in heart rhythm. All of our covid patients are treated on a critical care unit or ICU, so they are all on cardiac telemetry monitoring continuously. If that side effect shows up, we stop the HCQ. It's no big deal. Maybe other hospitals don't monitor cardiac rhythms?
[/quote]

What have you seen so far for results?  What is your read on whether it works to prevent the really bad symptoms & progression of COVID-19?
[/quote]

It's hard to say, since the disease itself is so new and all we know about the symptoms are what we read about from other countries and what we see ourselves. How much of what I see is corona, and what part is medication side-effects is not easy to tease out.

My opinion is that the HCQ appears to have no particular side effects at the doses and length of time we are using it, 4-5 days. That is, before we started using HCQ the patients had fevers, chills, muscle aches and were absolutely exhausted, to the point that a 35 year old man in excellent shape was unable to walk 6 feet to the toilet. After using HCQ, the last week or so, maybe my patients are better, but maybe I am just catching some easier patients. I'll quiz the docs at work, who see a lot more patients than any individual nurse. I'll let you know in a few days what they say.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 10:06:42 PM by Tom Bri »

Tom Bri

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2020, 03:20:00 AM »
I asked one doctor who said he didn't see much effect. I'll quiz more as I run into them at work.

I read all the research I can find, including the early pre-prints:
https://connect.medrxiv.org/relate/content/181

 I notice that the Chinese studies all seem to show a strong positive effect. Studies done in the US are pretty much not showing anything positive or negative. Some of the Euro studies show a positive effect. Sadly, most of the studies are little better than anecdotes at this early stage.

I would take it. It is only being given for a few days, at moderate dosages. Chances of any strong negative side effects are nearly nil unless you have pre-existing heart rhythm problems.


BudgetSlasher

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2020, 08:42:13 AM »
My answer is a firmly qualified yes.

Prophylactically: No

With minor Covid-19 Symptoms and no decline: Probably not, but if recommended by a doctor that I trust or have an existing relationship with I would consider their opinion. (I have enough doctors and NPs in the family to get some additional input).

If there was a better  or more promising option available to me option available (say the data, at the time, supported remdesivir or convalescent plasma): No, I would go with the most promising and available to me treatment.

If I was moderately sick and declining or severely sick and it was the only treatment for the disease (not the symptoms) that showed promise: Yes


scottish

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2020, 09:39:39 AM »
I asked one doctor who said he didn't see much effect. I'll quiz more as I run into them at work.

I read all the research I can find, including the early pre-prints:
https://connect.medrxiv.org/relate/content/181

 I notice that the Chinese studies all seem to show a strong positive effect. Studies done in the US are pretty much not showing anything positive or negative. Some of the Euro studies show a positive effect. Sadly, most of the studies are little better than anecdotes at this early stage.

I would take it. It is only being given for a few days, at moderate dosages. Chances of any strong negative side effects are nearly nil unless you have pre-existing heart rhythm problems.

400 mg twice a day is a very high dose isn't it, i.e. twice the level approved for lupus?    A moderate dose would be 200mg per day...   (not a doctor, just asking)

Tom Bri

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2020, 09:14:24 AM »


400 mg twice a day is a very high dose isn't it, i.e. twice the level approved for lupus?    A moderate dose would be 200mg per day...   (not a doctor, just asking)
[/quote]

It's a loading dose. Some of the research papers gave quite a bit higher doses. One paper out of Brazil started at 1 gram. They ran into problems and cancelled the study.

Maenad

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2020, 03:30:14 PM »

bacchi

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2020, 07:08:57 PM »
https://babylonbee.com/news/liberal-treated-with-hydroxychloroquine-hopes-he-still-dies-of-covid-19-to-prove-trump-is-stupid

Do you realize the Babylon Bee is a satire site like the Onion? I can't tell from you just posting a link.

That's how vern be.

In other news, there's a pre-print study about hydroxy:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1

Quote
CONCLUSIONS: In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19. An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone.
(bolded)



And another one: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.10.20060699v1.full.pdf

Quote from: medrxiv
No   evidence   of   clinical   efficacy   of   hydroxychloroquine   in   patients   hospitalised  for  COVID-19  infection  and  requiring  oxygen:  results  of  a  study using routinely collected data to emulate a target trial


There's a NY/Univ. Albany study being released this week that should reveal more about what works and what doesn't.

nereo

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2020, 07:15:51 PM »
...oddly, it’s been a few days since Trump or Hannity mentioned hydroxychlorquine. 

This highlights the lack of leadership we have during this crisis.  During trying times the WH is grasping for a miracle cure while telling people the states should take the lead, even in matters that are best led by a unified federal government.

Tass

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2020, 08:56:10 PM »
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-versus-covid-19/

That is a follow-up article to this one, which goes a little more into the details of the original French study touting the HCQ-azithromycin combo: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/are-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-an-effective-treatment-for-covid-19/

Here's the jaw-dropping part of the study:

Quote
We enrolled 36 out of 42 patients meeting the inclusion criteria in this study that had at least six days of follow-up at the time of the present analysis. A total of 26 patients received hydroxychloroquine and 16 were control patients. Six hydroxychloroquine-treated patients were lost in follow-up during the survey because of early cessation of treatment. Reasons are as follows: three patients were transferred to intensive care unit... one patient died on day3 post inclusion... one patient decided to leave the hospital on day3 post-inclusion... finally, one patient stopped the treatment on day3 post-inclusion because of nausea... The results presented here are therefore those of 36 patients (20 hydroxychloroquine-treated patients and 16 control patients). None of the control patients was lost in follow-up.

The "lost to follow up" patients were excluded from their analysis - so, all the patients who got HCQ but got worse (transferred to ICU or died) were ignored. No wonder they found positive results!

Now, this doesn't mean it's impossible that HCQ is helpful, and obviously some research has been done since then. But this is the paper that started the hype, and it's garbage. Forgive me for being miffed.

nereo

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2020, 04:23:30 AM »
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-versus-covid-19/

That is a follow-up article to this one, which goes a little more into the details of the original French study touting the HCQ-azithromycin combo: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/are-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-an-effective-treatment-for-covid-19/

Here's the jaw-dropping part of the study:

Quote
We enrolled 36 out of 42 patients meeting the inclusion criteria in this study that had at least six days of follow-up at the time of the present analysis. A total of 26 patients received hydroxychloroquine and 16 were control patients. Six hydroxychloroquine-treated patients were lost in follow-up during the survey because of early cessation of treatment. Reasons are as follows: three patients were transferred to intensive care unit... one patient died on day3 post inclusion... one patient decided to leave the hospital on day3 post-inclusion... finally, one patient stopped the treatment on day3 post-inclusion because of nausea... The results presented here are therefore those of 36 patients (20 hydroxychloroquine-treated patients and 16 control patients). None of the control patients was lost in follow-up.

The "lost to follow up" patients were excluded from their analysis - so, all the patients who got HCQ but got worse (transferred to ICU or died) were ignored. No wonder they found positive results!

Now, this doesn't mean it's impossible that HCQ is helpful, and obviously some research has been done since then. But this is the paper that started the hype, and it's garbage. Forgive me for being miffed.

Imagine how much stronger my studies could be if I were to drop all the inconvenient results before running my stats!

js82

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2020, 05:44:22 AM »

Now, this doesn't mean it's impossible that HCQ is helpful, and obviously some research has been done since then. But this is the paper that started the hype, and it's garbage. Forgive me for being miffed.

There's some other weird stuff in that study if you sift through the raw data - data patterns that one probably wouldn't expect to occur naturally through random variation.  Makes me think  it's possible there were issues with the tests/labs they were using as well.

But yes, there were a lot of things wrong with the French study.  It should get exactly what it deserves upon peer review..

DarkandStormy

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2020, 11:44:54 AM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/hydroxychloroquine-veterans-study/index.html

Quote
Coronavirus patients taking hydroxychloroquine, a treatment touted by President Trump, were no less likely to need mechanical ventilation and had higher deaths rates compared to those who did not take the drug, according to a study of hundreds of patients at US Veterans Health Administration medical centers.

It's insane to me that doctors are prescribing a drug for covid-19 when there's no medical basis for doing so.

scottish

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2020, 03:45:56 PM »
I don't find the results especially surprising.   Hydroxychroloquine is mildly toxic, it seems strange it would help fight off a virus.

On the bright side, I can report no problems renewing my prescription this month!

Fireball

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2020, 04:05:40 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/hydroxychloroquine-veterans-study/index.html

Quote
Coronavirus patients taking hydroxychloroquine, a treatment touted by President Trump, were no less likely to need mechanical ventilation and had higher deaths rates compared to those who did not take the drug, according to a study of hundreds of patients at US Veterans Health Administration medical centers.

It's insane to me that doctors are prescribing a drug for covid-19 when there's no medical basis for doing so.

Wait, so they're saying that it's not helpful AND you're more likely to die if you do take it??? Oh, FFS. I mean, I try to not just blatantly bash Trump at every turn, but he shouldn't make it so easy. Work with me, Donald.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2020, 07:57:24 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/hydroxychloroquine-veterans-study/index.html

Quote
Coronavirus patients taking hydroxychloroquine, a treatment touted by President Trump, were no less likely to need mechanical ventilation and had higher deaths rates compared to those who did not take the drug, according to a study of hundreds of patients at US Veterans Health Administration medical centers.

It's insane to me that doctors are prescribing a drug for covid-19 when there's no medical basis for doing so.

Wait, so they're saying that it's not helpful AND you're more likely to die if you do take it??? Oh, FFS. I mean, I try to not just blatantly bash Trump at every turn, but he shouldn't make it so easy. Work with me, Donald.

To be fair, a fake medical.expert appeared on one of his favorite Fox News shows (Tucker).and said HQC had "100% success rate" among covid-19 patients.

bacchi

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2020, 08:47:34 PM »
Sunlight, I shit you not, is the next miracle cure.

Not in the air, not on a surface, but as a treatment.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-floats-using-uv-light-or-disinfectant-injections-to-treat-covid-19-patients

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“Deborah [Dr. Birx], have you ever heard of the heat and the light relative to this virus?”

“Not as a treatment,” she said....
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 09:05:04 PM by bacchi »

DarkandStormy

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2020, 08:54:43 PM »
Lol can we inject it into the body? What about disinfectant?

Tass

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2020, 09:05:52 PM »
I don't find the results especially surprising.   Hydroxychroloquine is mildly toxic, it seems strange it would help fight off a virus.

I believe it does show some promising results in cell culture, so there was reason to at least investigate it as a treatment. Unfortunately, lots of things work in cell culture that don't work in humans.


Abe

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2020, 11:55:29 PM »
It showed promising results in cell culture of monkey renal cells that were selected for ease of replicating viruses. I know it’s really hard to culture lung cells, but they could’ve at least done an in vivo monkey trial first. At least redesmivir (which will probably be another bust based on the latest data) had data against coronaviruses in lung cell cultures and monkeys. It’s a bit too much jumping the gun and experimenting on people for my taste.

KBecks

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2020, 05:10:48 AM »
What I have heard is hydroxychloroquine + zinc + azithromycin.  The azithromycin might be able to be substituted with another antibiotic.

I might ask for it if I had Covid-19 and moderate symptoms.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 05:19:42 AM by KBecks »

DarkandStormy

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2020, 07:02:02 AM »

Fireball

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2020, 07:44:54 AM »
What I have heard is hydroxychloroquine + zinc + azithromycin.  The azithromycin might be able to be substituted with another antibiotic.

I might ask for it if I had Covid-19 and moderate symptoms.

I've heard they're strongly looking into bleach and sunlight right now. I would hold off on the hydroxychloroquine combo just a bit longer.

nereo

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2020, 07:56:31 AM »
Someone is going to inject themselves with bleach, and they are going to die or be hospitalized.
Desperate and scared people will do desperate things.

nereo

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2020, 09:20:51 AM »
Well the FDA has just issued a warning about taking hydroxychloroquine, against the hype currently being given by Trump and Fox & Friends.

When your own scientists routinely contradict you, rethink your position(s).

Maenad

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2020, 12:55:59 PM »
Well the FDA has just issued a warning about taking hydroxychloroquine, against the hype currently being given by Trump and Fox & Friends.

When your own scientists routinely contradict you, rethink your position(s).

That's what a reasonable human being would do, yes.

Tass

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2020, 07:53:51 PM »
What I have heard is hydroxychloroquine + zinc + azithromycin.  The azithromycin might be able to be substituted with another antibiotic.

I might ask for it if I had Covid-19 and moderate symptoms.

The hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin combo was recommended against this week by the NIH because both have the same dangerous cardiac side effect, and that side effect was cropping up in treated COVID-19 patients. I wouldn't ask for that combo, but even if you did I'm not sure if you'd get it at this point.

That was before, and separate from, the FDA recommendation against HCQ alone that @nereo just mentioned upthread.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 10:09:56 PM by Tass »

Villanelle

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2020, 08:57:36 PM »
I don't find the results especially surprising.   Hydroxychroloquine is mildly toxic, it seems strange it would help fight off a virus.

I believe it does show some promising results in cell culture, so there was reason to at least investigate it as a treatment. Unfortunately, lots of things work in cell culture that don't work in humans.



This reminds me of people saying something is all-natural, as though that means it is safe.  You know what else is natural?  Cyanide. 

oldtoyota

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2020, 10:12:55 PM »
What I have heard is hydroxychloroquine + zinc + azithromycin.  The azithromycin might be able to be substituted with another antibiotic.

I might ask for it if I had Covid-19 and moderate symptoms.

I've heard they're strongly looking into bleach and sunlight right now. I would hold off on the hydroxychloroquine combo just a bit longer.

I hear that was the drug to use for a week. Now, we have moved on to injecting sunlight and inhaling Clorox.

Would you inhale Clorox if your doctor suggested it?


Fireball

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2020, 10:29:50 PM »
What I have heard is hydroxychloroquine + zinc + azithromycin.  The azithromycin might be able to be substituted with another antibiotic.

I might ask for it if I had Covid-19 and moderate symptoms.

I've heard they're strongly looking into bleach and sunlight right now. I would hold off on the hydroxychloroquine combo just a bit longer.

I hear that was the drug to use for a week. Now, we have moved on to injecting sunlight and inhaling Clorox.

Would you inhale Clorox if your doctor suggested it?

My post was intended to be playful sarcasm in case that wasn't evident.

jim555

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2020, 11:38:02 PM »
I've been mainlining Lysol and I feel great, so fresh and clean.

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2020, 05:42:38 AM »
I've been mainlining Lysol and I feel great, so fresh and clean.

You haven't lived until you've injected UV light.  I'll admit that it's tricky to capture in the syringe (you need to work quickly) though.

jim555

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Re: Would you take Hydroxychloroquine?
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2020, 06:00:10 AM »
I've been mainlining Lysol and I feel great, so fresh and clean.

You haven't lived until you've injected UV light.  I'll admit that it's tricky to capture in the syringe (you need to work quickly) though.
UV rectal works wonders, or so I've heard.