Author Topic: Words/phrases I wish would go away  (Read 611789 times)

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2100 on: June 23, 2021, 01:30:28 AM »
It's not just unfair to call it "incorrect." There are appropriate and inappropriate contexts in which to use any number of dialects, determined by explicit or implicit social code and convention. But there is no such thing as an incorrect language.

That's like me saying that because people have different subjective rules of grammar, all the people who enjoy putting the apostrophe in a plural pronoun are not incorrect - just nonstandard.

You’ve confused the idea of a coherent dialect being incorrect (which is what I’m talking about) with individual errors within the framework of that language.

Exactly. A dialect is different from a pattern of errors within a dialect.

There is such thing as a grammatical error, anyone speaking any dialect can make a grammatical error. Not speaking the dominant dialect is not making an error, it's speaking according to a systematically different set of rules.

So an African American saying 'ax' can be using AAVE, but a non-black person who pronounces it that way is simply mispronouncing the word?


Metalcat

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2101 on: June 23, 2021, 05:22:39 AM »
It's not just unfair to call it "incorrect." There are appropriate and inappropriate contexts in which to use any number of dialects, determined by explicit or implicit social code and convention. But there is no such thing as an incorrect language.

That's like me saying that because people have different subjective rules of grammar, all the people who enjoy putting the apostrophe in a plural pronoun are not incorrect - just nonstandard.

You’ve confused the idea of a coherent dialect being incorrect (which is what I’m talking about) with individual errors within the framework of that language.

Exactly. A dialect is different from a pattern of errors within a dialect.

There is such thing as a grammatical error, anyone speaking any dialect can make a grammatical error. Not speaking the dominant dialect is not making an error, it's speaking according to a systematically different set of rules.

So an African American saying 'ax' can be using AAVE, but a non-black person who pronounces it that way is simply mispronouncing the word?

A person who was raised with and encoded the AAVE dialectical structure and lexicon isn't making a mistake when they use "ax". To be clear, not all AAVE speakers are black. It's called AAVE because it originated with African American slaves, who lived quite separate from white people, hence why their cultural dialect formed so distinctly. Many of their linguistic structures that a lot of Standard English people see as errors are actually based on certain Victorian English structures that died away in most, but not all, white communities over time, but have been preserved in a few dialects.

Hence why someone upthread mentioned Chaucer's use of "ax". AAVE preserves a lot of very old linguistic patterns. It's quite an interesting dialect actually.

A person who was not raised with a dialect where "ax" is part of the structure is making a pronunciation error, because it's not encoded into the dialect that they acquired. Like an older person pronouncing "Google" as "Goggle".

GuitarStv

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2102 on: June 23, 2021, 06:48:50 AM »
You're right that I didn't address that.  But I will now.  If I were checking a technical document you wrote using the language we're using right now, I would bleed red ink all over it.  If I read a technical paper you wrote in language that we're using right now, I would probably be less likely to take you seriously.  When you write formal technical documents, you should use formal English which has a lot more influence from Latin, Greek, and Anglo-Norman French.  If you feel strongly that that needs to change, then you're feeling a little bit of what it's like to deal with implicit biases against your own dialect. 

That does not make the way we're writing right now incorrect, though.  It's just informal.

So, I'm a little confused now.  The language that I'm using to type at this moment is standard Canadian English (which is largely British English with a few alternate spellings borrowed from America).  If I were writing a technical document, a resume, or anything else I would use the same standard English.

You appear to be arguing that a special language exists for writing formal technical documents.  That sounds like nonsense to me.  The syntax, grammar, and spelling of words is constant between what I'm currently writing and how a technical paper should be written.  It's true that I'd probably choose slightly different words from standard English while writing a technical document as context depends . . . but that doesn't change that standard English would be used.

Could you provide an example of language used in technical documents that is not standard English and contrast it to the standard English used in this conversation?  Specifically, highlight the areas of grammar, spelling, and syntax which differ.  I suspect that you'll find both conform to the rules of standard English.



And no, standard English is not appropriate in all places English is used.  If you went up to your friends and started speaking in the formal language I was talking about, they'd think you were pretty pompous.  Formal English isn't appropriate there, or in other words "incorrect" under the circumstances.  In the same way, using standard English could come off wrong in a situation where you should speak in your native dialect.  That's about the best I can do to explain it if you don't have any intuitive experience with diglossia.

Again, I need a better understanding of what 'formal English' is and how it differs from standard English to really respond to this.  At first blush it sounds like you're drawing distinctions where none exist though.



As you said, though, he had a small amount more trouble being taken seriously than if he talked like he had been raised in Toronto.  If you hadn't already known he was a respected aerodynamics professor, you might have dismissed his intelligence based on implicit biases about Newfoundlanders.   (I honestly don't know how serious the negative stereotype of Newfies is, so that may or may not be a good example.)

Also, give him credit that he's trying to teach you in what amounts to a foreign language.  Yes, he should learn better Standard Canadian English if he's going to teach a class in it, the same as a non-native English speaker, but you should recognize you're saying that from a place of being born into the privilege of being a native speaker of the prestige dialect.

I don't think that he was fighting against a negative Newfoundlander stereotype as much as he experienced difficulties in expressing himself clearly.  And for someone who is in a position where expressing yourself clearly is a vital part of the work, obviously having difficulty doing that indicates a lack of preparation for the work.  That was indeed my point.  When someone chooses to use a non-standard vernacular inappropriately, this alone is reason for poor first impressions.  This doesn't occur because of race/background but because of the choices they've made.

(FWIW, I liked him about as much as any of our other professors - but I tended to skip most lectures and just read the textbook to learn the complicated stuff.  :P )



Quote
Calling a dialect "incorrect" is just a mild form of the same culture that thought indigenous Canadians would be better off speaking only English.

I don't think I'd ever argue that speaking only one language is for the best.  Languages help a persons mind develop in a variety of different, beneficial ways.  Languages themselves expose a person to wider cultural differences and ways of thinking.  Learning more languages is better in pretty much all the cases I can think of.

The white Christians who thought that indigenous Canadians would be better off speaking only English didn't care at all about the English language.  They were very clear about their goals - to eradicate native religion and culture to enforce dependence so that they could be controlled more easily.  The Canadian government (assisted by Christian churches) went out of their way to build some very specific and horrific ways of going about doing that with impacts that have damaged native communities to this day.  The goal didn't have anything to do with correct usage of the English language, or dialects . . . and it's a little odd to see you somehow try to equate the two.

There are a lot of similarities to what speakers of AAVE have been through.

But yes those examples are extreme.  Nonetheless, people from places like West Virginia still face an uphill battle to be taken as seriously as people like you who were born into learning the prestige dialect of North American English.

Speakers of AAVE didn't experience their hardships because of AAVE, just as native speakers didn't experience their hardships because of their native tongue.  This is completely unrelated.

As far as not being taken seriously - I mean, yeah.  If you need to convey information in a particular language, not learning the language you need to use correctly tends to create barriers.  That's natural and expected.

GuitarStv

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2103 on: June 23, 2021, 06:57:43 AM »
It's not just unfair to call it "incorrect." There are appropriate and inappropriate contexts in which to use any number of dialects, determined by explicit or implicit social code and convention. But there is no such thing as an incorrect language.

That's like me saying that because people have different subjective rules of grammar, all the people who enjoy putting the apostrophe in a plural pronoun are not incorrect - just nonstandard.

You’ve confused the idea of a coherent dialect being incorrect (which is what I’m talking about) with individual errors within the framework of that language.

Exactly. A dialect is different from a pattern of errors within a dialect.

There is such thing as a grammatical error, anyone speaking any dialect can make a grammatical error. Not speaking the dominant dialect is not making an error, it's speaking according to a systematically different set of rules.

So an African American saying 'ax' can be using AAVE, but a non-black person who pronounces it that way is simply mispronouncing the word?

A person who was raised with and encoded the AAVE dialectical structure and lexicon isn't making a mistake when they use "ax".

This is half true.  They aren't making a mistake if they're using it informally to converse with other people in AAVE.  They are making a mistake if they're using it in a situation where standard English is called for.


A person who was not raised with a dialect where "ax" is part of the structure is making a pronunciation error, because it's not encoded into the dialect that they acquired. Like an older person pronouncing "Google" as "Goggle".

Just because something is difficult because of habit, doesn't mean that the incorrect usage is acceptable or correct.  The older person is very clearly making a mistake when pronouncing "Google" as "Goggle".  Pretending otherwise is a benefit to nobody.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2104 on: June 23, 2021, 09:38:14 AM »
Could we stop with the ageism please?  Those of us who use Google know how to say it.  Although given what turns up sometimes, I am tempted to pronounce it "Giggle".  And sometimes "Goggle" is totally appropriate.  As in, I am goggling at the pathetic nonsense Google has turned up.

I don't diss millennials and Gen X/Y/Z/whatever label is in popular usage now.  You ignore how much life has changed since Boomers were young.  We have had to deal with masses of linguistic change, social change, and technological change.

Rant over.

dougules

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2105 on: June 23, 2021, 10:47:06 AM »
It's not just unfair to call it "incorrect." There are appropriate and inappropriate contexts in which to use any number of dialects, determined by explicit or implicit social code and convention. But there is no such thing as an incorrect language.
There are state-sponsored institutions the world over whose only job is to determine what is correct or incorrect use of the language they have jurisdiction over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_language_regulators

They are not exactly shy to tell you when you're wrong.

We can have robust disagreements as to where to draw the line, but the absolutist view is not an easy one to defend.

They're also arms of governments that have a long history of colonialist atrocities around the world.
Not everything has to be seen through the lens of colonial history.

You can see these academies as the tyranny of the majority oppressing a minority, or you can see it as a brave minority taking a stand to protect their own language from the more influential group. It just depends on the situation.

For example: the French academy spends a crazy amount of time "fighting" anglicisms. There are millions of people in France who use the word "digital" the way English speakers understand it, because many French citizens go on the global internet a consume a ton of American content. Many are highly educated and work in tech or whatever, so it bleeds into everyday language. The academy isn't having it, because "digital" means something else entirely in French, you should use "numérique" instead. If you don't, that's incorrect.

Now there is no police that goes around arresting people at night because they used the word incorrectly. But in any situation that matters even just a bit, whether it's crafting legislation, writing papers, giving a public talk, you are expected to know the difference and use the appropriate word. If you don't, people will think less of you. Probably not a lot less, but less.

This isn't about ethnic dominance or cultural assimilation or anything like that. There is no deep-rooted anti-Anglo resentment going back to Joan of Arc. French is the language of the Republic, and its citizens are expected to speak French in the public sphere.

No, not everything can be viewed through the lens of colonial history, but this can.   It's good to have a standard language and regulate it like you would weights and measures, but not to the detriment of minority languages and dialects.  I'm happy that the French are defending their language against the onslaught of English, but at the same they are pushing standard French on people whose native language is not standard French.  French isn't historically the language of the republic, just the language of the region around Paris.  The Bretons and the Basque traditionally speak completely different languages.  A lot of other regions of France have or had dialects or separate languages that are related to, but not the same as, standard French.  France is a particularly good example because they were long-standing hold outs against minority language rights.  It's ironic when they're the first to be upset about the hegemony of English. 

Metalcat

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2106 on: June 23, 2021, 12:24:47 PM »
It's not just unfair to call it "incorrect." There are appropriate and inappropriate contexts in which to use any number of dialects, determined by explicit or implicit social code and convention. But there is no such thing as an incorrect language.

That's like me saying that because people have different subjective rules of grammar, all the people who enjoy putting the apostrophe in a plural pronoun are not incorrect - just nonstandard.

You’ve confused the idea of a coherent dialect being incorrect (which is what I’m talking about) with individual errors within the framework of that language.

Exactly. A dialect is different from a pattern of errors within a dialect.

There is such thing as a grammatical error, anyone speaking any dialect can make a grammatical error. Not speaking the dominant dialect is not making an error, it's speaking according to a systematically different set of rules.

So an African American saying 'ax' can be using AAVE, but a non-black person who pronounces it that way is simply mispronouncing the word?

A person who was raised with and encoded the AAVE dialectical structure and lexicon isn't making a mistake when they use "ax".

This is half true.  They aren't making a mistake if they're using it informally to converse with other people in AAVE.  They are making a mistake if they're using it in a situation where standard English is called for.


A person who was not raised with a dialect where "ax" is part of the structure is making a pronunciation error, because it's not encoded into the dialect that they acquired. Like an older person pronouncing "Google" as "Goggle".

Just because something is difficult because of habit, doesn't mean that the incorrect usage is acceptable or correct.  The older person is very clearly making a mistake when pronouncing "Google" as "Goggle".  Pretending otherwise is a benefit to nobody.

Again, I will agree to disagree with you.

Fluency in Standard English is required for a lot of jobs, that's true, but it doesn't make the person's native dialect or language wrong, it just makes it inappropriate for the context.

A lot of language and verbal content isn't appropriate in many professional contexts, that doesn't make them grammatically wrong.

"Suck my fucking smelly ball sack" is perfectly good Standard English, but not appropriate for most workplaces. It's grammatically fine though. Speaking Portuguese to English speaking customers is also not appropriate, but it's not grammatically wrong. And speaking AAVE may be considered inappropriate, but it too, is not grammatically wrong.

Yes, most native AAVE speakers will have to learn fluency in Standard English in order to be able to use the expected dialect of their chosen profession, just like anyone else whose native dialect or language isn't Standard English.

That's not the same as saying that their native dialect is wrong and riddled with grammatical errors.

dougules

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2107 on: June 23, 2021, 12:32:37 PM »
You're right that I didn't address that.  But I will now.  If I were checking a technical document you wrote using the language we're using right now, I would bleed red ink all over it.  If I read a technical paper you wrote in language that we're using right now, I would probably be less likely to take you seriously.  When you write formal technical documents, you should use formal English which has a lot more influence from Latin, Greek, and Anglo-Norman French.  If you feel strongly that that needs to change, then you're feeling a little bit of what it's like to deal with implicit biases against your own dialect. 

That does not make the way we're writing right now incorrect, though.  It's just informal.

So, I'm a little confused now.  The language that I'm using to type at this moment is standard Canadian English (which is largely British English with a few alternate spellings borrowed from America).  If I were writing a technical document, a resume, or anything else I would use the same standard English.

You appear to be arguing that a special language exists for writing formal technical documents.  That sounds like nonsense to me.  The syntax, grammar, and spelling of words is constant between what I'm currently writing and how a technical paper should be written.  It's true that I'd probably choose slightly different words from standard English while writing a technical document as context depends . . . but that doesn't change that standard English would be used.

Could you provide an example of language used in technical documents that is not standard English and contrast it to the standard English used in this conversation?  Specifically, highlight the areas of grammar, spelling, and syntax which differ.  I suspect that you'll find both conform to the rules of standard English.

And no, standard English is not appropriate in all places English is used.  If you went up to your friends and started speaking in the formal language I was talking about, they'd think you were pretty pompous.  Formal English isn't appropriate there, or in other words "incorrect" under the circumstances.  In the same way, using standard English could come off wrong in a situation where you should speak in your native dialect.  That's about the best I can do to explain it if you don't have any intuitive experience with diglossia.

Again, I need a better understanding of what 'formal English' is and how it differs from standard English to really respond to this.  At first blush it sounds like you're drawing distinctions where none exist though.

Standard may not be the best term.  I don't know about Canada, but there is no official standard in the US.  Unofficially, General American is the standard.  There are formal and informal registers of that dialect of English.  What we're writing right now is in the informal register.  The formal register is, in some respects, a separate language used to write formal documents.  In the formal register you would not use contractions, and you would generally prefer words with Latin or Greek roots (so called big words).  You'd also tend to not use Germanic phrasal verbs.  You wouldn't say things like "turn off" or "hook up".  You would use words and phrases like "de-energize", "remove power", or "connect".  At one point in English history, the English language was not used in any capacity in formal settings.  Modern English speakers still maintain that dichotomy to an extent by using vocabulary and phrasing derived from Anglo-Norman French, Latin, and Greek in formal situations where the informal register would employ vocabulary and phrasing derived from Anglo-Saxon roots.  At this point in history it may be appropriate to abandon use of the formal register.  However, a writer who uses the informal register in formal writing still incurs the risk of being judged negatively based on the implicit biases of the reader.  I'm guessing you can see I moved between registers at points?

I'll have to answer the rest of it later.  I've only got so much time and energy for writing linguistic treatises.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2108 on: June 23, 2021, 12:41:43 PM »
Scientific papers have their own linguistic requirements.  First, they are written in passive voice.  "I" never do anything.  The locations were chosen and the sites were sampled.  Second, as mentioned above, they are formal.  Technical terms, methodology, everything written out in full.  In Biology, Genus and species are set formats.  Literature Cited is formal and journal dependent.

This seems to work.  I have seen beautifully written papers where, going by names and affiliations, most if not all of the authors are writing in their second (3rd? 4th?) language.  Formal English may actually be easier to write than casual English, at least as a second language, because the rules are much more precise.

DadJokes

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2109 on: June 23, 2021, 01:06:28 PM »
Let's continue this argument for another 50 responses and see if anyone's mind is changed by then!

Metalcat

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2110 on: June 23, 2021, 01:12:52 PM »
Let's continue this argument for another 50 responses and see if anyone's mind is changed by then!

Well, no one is adding funny examples of stupid shit people say.

I'll add one though, I don't wish it would go away, but it's funny. My father says of his covid vaccine that he "got the stab" instead of jab. It makes me laugh every time.

OtherJen

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2111 on: June 23, 2021, 04:47:53 PM »
Scientific papers have their own linguistic requirements.  First, they are written in passive voice.  "I" never do anything.  The locations were chosen and the sites were sampled.  Second, as mentioned above, they are formal.  Technical terms, methodology, everything written out in full.  In Biology, Genus and species are set formats.  Literature Cited is formal and journal dependent.

This seems to work.  I have seen beautifully written papers where, going by names and affiliations, most if not all of the authors are writing in their second (3rd? 4th?) language.  Formal English may actually be easier to write than casual English, at least as a second language, because the rules are much more precise.

I'm a full-time medical/life science editor (and manager of other editors) and work almost exclusively with manuscripts and research proposals written by non-native English-speaking researchers. There's no set rule on voice, and in fact some journals prefer active voice.

Many of the papers written by authors in second (or higher-ordinal) languages have been edited (sometimes heavily) to improve grammar, syntax, word choice, and organizational structure by people like me. It's a privilege to be entrusted with their work and to help them communicate it using English-language norms in the field.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2112 on: June 23, 2021, 05:22:51 PM »
Scientific papers have their own linguistic requirements.  First, they are written in passive voice.  "I" never do anything.  The locations were chosen and the sites were sampled.  Second, as mentioned above, they are formal.  Technical terms, methodology, everything written out in full.  In Biology, Genus and species are set formats.  Literature Cited is formal and journal dependent.

This seems to work.  I have seen beautifully written papers where, going by names and affiliations, most if not all of the authors are writing in their second (3rd? 4th?) language.  Formal English may actually be easier to write than casual English, at least as a second language, because the rules are much more precise.

I'm a full-time medical/life science editor (and manager of other editors) and work almost exclusively with manuscripts and research proposals written by non-native English-speaking researchers. There's no set rule on voice, and in fact some journals prefer active voice.

Many of the papers written by authors in second (or higher-ordinal) languages have been edited (sometimes heavily) to improve grammar, syntax, word choice, and organizational structure by people like me. It's a privilege to be entrusted with their work and to help them communicate it using English-language norms in the field.

I guess it depends on the field.  The journals I read when I was working were almost all in passive voice.

I always wondered about the editing.  I think some of the native English speakers could have used more editing.  I know how hard it is, since I used to help students write Honours undergrad theses.  They were shocked at the amount of editing they had to do.  Good writing doesn't just happen.

DadJokes

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2113 on: June 24, 2021, 05:26:47 AM »
Scientific papers have their own linguistic requirements.  First, they are written in passive voice.  "I" never do anything.  The locations were chosen and the sites were sampled.  Second, as mentioned above, they are formal.  Technical terms, methodology, everything written out in full.  In Biology, Genus and species are set formats.  Literature Cited is formal and journal dependent.

This seems to work.  I have seen beautifully written papers where, going by names and affiliations, most if not all of the authors are writing in their second (3rd? 4th?) language.  Formal English may actually be easier to write than casual English, at least as a second language, because the rules are much more precise.

I'm a full-time medical/life science editor (and manager of other editors) and work almost exclusively with manuscripts and research proposals written by non-native English-speaking researchers. There's no set rule on voice, and in fact some journals prefer active voice.

Many of the papers written by authors in second (or higher-ordinal) languages have been edited (sometimes heavily) to improve grammar, syntax, word choice, and organizational structure by people like me. It's a privilege to be entrusted with their work and to help them communicate it using English-language norms in the field.

I guess it depends on the field.  The journals I read when I was working were almost all in passive voice.

I always wondered about the editing.  I think some of the native English speakers could have used more editing.  I know how hard it is, since I used to help students write Honours undergrad theses.  They were shocked at the amount of editing they had to do.  Good writing doesn't just happen.

In audit reports, we use active voice.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2114 on: June 24, 2021, 06:18:42 AM »
Scientific papers have their own linguistic requirements.  First, they are written in passive voice.  "I" never do anything.  The locations were chosen and the sites were sampled.  Second, as mentioned above, they are formal.  Technical terms, methodology, everything written out in full.  In Biology, Genus and species are set formats.  Literature Cited is formal and journal dependent.

This seems to work.  I have seen beautifully written papers where, going by names and affiliations, most if not all of the authors are writing in their second (3rd? 4th?) language.  Formal English may actually be easier to write than casual English, at least as a second language, because the rules are much more precise.

I'm a full-time medical/life science editor (and manager of other editors) and work almost exclusively with manuscripts and research proposals written by non-native English-speaking researchers. There's no set rule on voice, and in fact some journals prefer active voice.

Many of the papers written by authors in second (or higher-ordinal) languages have been edited (sometimes heavily) to improve grammar, syntax, word choice, and organizational structure by people like me. It's a privilege to be entrusted with their work and to help them communicate it using English-language norms in the field.

I guess it depends on the field.  The journals I read when I was working were almost all in passive voice.

I always wondered about the editing.  I think some of the native English speakers could have used more editing.  I know how hard it is, since I used to help students write Honours undergrad theses.  They were shocked at the amount of editing they had to do.  Good writing doesn't just happen.

In audit reports, we use active voice.

You are lucky, passive voice is hard. 

And that shows that for good communication the writer needs to know what the audience is expecting.

GuitarStv

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2115 on: June 24, 2021, 07:38:48 AM »
You're right that I didn't address that.  But I will now.  If I were checking a technical document you wrote using the language we're using right now, I would bleed red ink all over it.  If I read a technical paper you wrote in language that we're using right now, I would probably be less likely to take you seriously.  When you write formal technical documents, you should use formal English which has a lot more influence from Latin, Greek, and Anglo-Norman French.  If you feel strongly that that needs to change, then you're feeling a little bit of what it's like to deal with implicit biases against your own dialect. 

That does not make the way we're writing right now incorrect, though.  It's just informal.

So, I'm a little confused now.  The language that I'm using to type at this moment is standard Canadian English (which is largely British English with a few alternate spellings borrowed from America).  If I were writing a technical document, a resume, or anything else I would use the same standard English.

You appear to be arguing that a special language exists for writing formal technical documents.  That sounds like nonsense to me.  The syntax, grammar, and spelling of words is constant between what I'm currently writing and how a technical paper should be written.  It's true that I'd probably choose slightly different words from standard English while writing a technical document as context depends . . . but that doesn't change that standard English would be used.

Could you provide an example of language used in technical documents that is not standard English and contrast it to the standard English used in this conversation?  Specifically, highlight the areas of grammar, spelling, and syntax which differ.  I suspect that you'll find both conform to the rules of standard English.

And no, standard English is not appropriate in all places English is used.  If you went up to your friends and started speaking in the formal language I was talking about, they'd think you were pretty pompous.  Formal English isn't appropriate there, or in other words "incorrect" under the circumstances.  In the same way, using standard English could come off wrong in a situation where you should speak in your native dialect.  That's about the best I can do to explain it if you don't have any intuitive experience with diglossia.

Again, I need a better understanding of what 'formal English' is and how it differs from standard English to really respond to this.  At first blush it sounds like you're drawing distinctions where none exist though.

Standard may not be the best term.  I don't know about Canada, but there is no official standard in the US.  Unofficially, General American is the standard.  There are formal and informal registers of that dialect of English.  What we're writing right now is in the informal register.  The formal register is, in some respects, a separate language used to write formal documents.  In the formal register you would not use contractions, and you would generally prefer words with Latin or Greek roots (so called big words).  You'd also tend to not use Germanic phrasal verbs.  You wouldn't say things like "turn off" or "hook up".  You would use words and phrases like "de-energize", "remove power", or "connect".  At one point in English history, the English language was not used in any capacity in formal settings.  Modern English speakers still maintain that dichotomy to an extent by using vocabulary and phrasing derived from Anglo-Norman French, Latin, and Greek in formal situations where the informal register would employ vocabulary and phrasing derived from Anglo-Saxon roots.  At this point in history it may be appropriate to abandon use of the formal register.  However, a writer who uses the informal register in formal writing still incurs the risk of being judged negatively based on the implicit biases of the reader.  I'm guessing you can see I moved between registers at points?

I'll have to answer the rest of it later.  I've only got so much time and energy for writing linguistic treatises.

I have used and will continue to use 'turn off' over 'de-energize' while writing a technical manual.  Technical instruction is about clarity, which impacts word choice.  For example, if a device has an 'off' switch, 'de-energize' becomes confusing.  Does 'de-energize' mean removing the power cable from the device?  Does it mean draining the battery?  Does it mean discharging the capacitors?  You can mark it up in red pen all you like, but use of 'de-energize' terminology would cause customer support to have to answer questions about what is meant it seems like an odd choice to use it.

Typically I will write technical manuals in passive voice, which wouldn't be used for informal conversation though.

But regardless choice of vocabulary or voice used (both largely stylistic choices) - I'm still using standard English for both.  I'm still following the rules of standard English grammar for both.  The spelling and pronunciation of the words is the same.  There's no separate 'technical writing' dialect.

Jouer

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2116 on: June 24, 2021, 09:17:57 AM »
Quote
The guy who taught us aerodynamics was well liked and respected.  But the first impression with the thick accent and heavy use of colloquialisms was usually laughter due to difficulty in understanding.  This occurred because he didn't learn very good Standard English, instead forcing others to deal with his dialect.  (He did write his textbooks in perfect Standard English with no colloquialisms.)


When some of us leave Newfoundland, we choose to change our speaking a little so the slow mainlanders can understand us. ;-)  Sounds like your prof didn't feel like doing that. 

We all learned "proper English" which is why your prof used it in writing. But using it in speech is lame in our culture. Having said that, we are well aware that our grammar is shit. Some of us are fighting an uphill battle.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2117 on: June 24, 2021, 09:50:28 AM »


Incorrect hat usage, or non-standard cultural artifact?

Discuss.

DadJokes

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2118 on: June 24, 2021, 09:52:06 AM »


Incorrect hat usage, or non-standard cultural artifact?

Discuss.

That's clearly there to collect water if it rains.

Metalcat

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2119 on: June 24, 2021, 09:54:00 AM »


Incorrect hat usage, or non-standard cultural artifact?

Discuss.

That's clearly there to collect water if it rains.

Or stores his snacks there

dougules

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2120 on: June 24, 2021, 11:46:01 AM »
Standard may not be the best term.  I don't know about Canada, but there is no official standard in the US.  Unofficially, General American is the standard.  There are formal and informal registers of that dialect of English.  What we're writing right now is in the informal register.  The formal register is, in some respects, a separate language used to write formal documents.  In the formal register you would not use contractions, and you would generally prefer words with Latin or Greek roots (so called big words).  You'd also tend to not use Germanic phrasal verbs.  You wouldn't say things like "turn off" or "hook up".  You would use words and phrases like "de-energize", "remove power", or "connect".  At one point in English history, the English language was not used in any capacity in formal settings.  Modern English speakers still maintain that dichotomy to an extent by using vocabulary and phrasing derived from Anglo-Norman French, Latin, and Greek in formal situations where the informal register would employ vocabulary and phrasing derived from Anglo-Saxon roots.  At this point in history it may be appropriate to abandon use of the formal register.  However, a writer who uses the informal register in formal writing still incurs the risk of being judged negatively based on the implicit biases of the reader.  I'm guessing you can see I moved between registers at points?

I'll have to answer the rest of it later.  I've only got so much time and energy for writing linguistic treatises.

I have used and will continue to use 'turn off' over 'de-energize' while writing a technical manual.  Technical instruction is about clarity, which impacts word choice.  For example, if a device has an 'off' switch, 'de-energize' becomes confusing.  Does 'de-energize' mean removing the power cable from the device?  Does it mean draining the battery?  Does it mean discharging the capacitors?  You can mark it up in red pen all you like, but use of 'de-energize' terminology would cause customer support to have to answer questions about what is meant it seems like an odd choice to use it.

Typically I will write technical manuals in passive voice, which wouldn't be used for informal conversation though.

But regardless choice of vocabulary or voice used (both largely stylistic choices) - I'm still using standard English for both.  I'm still following the rules of standard English grammar for both.  The spelling and pronunciation of the words is the same.  There's no separate 'technical writing' dialect.

Writing instructions for people to follow is different from writing a report which needs more formal language.  A previous job involved a decent amount of report writing, and there would be a lot of red ink on the page if there was too much informal wording in the report.  If you don't have to deal with that, lucky you.  The strong distinction between colloquial and formal English probably should go away, but it's not dead yet for people that write formal documents. 

I don't think you have any good reference point for using different forms of language in different settings, but for a lot of people who aren't native speakers of the prestige dialect of a major world language, that is the reality.  A lot of people who speak regional dialects don't necessarily understand it in those terms, either, and have internalized that their native dialect is bad or incorrect. 

Quote
The guy who taught us aerodynamics was well liked and respected.  But the first impression with the thick accent and heavy use of colloquialisms was usually laughter due to difficulty in understanding.  This occurred because he didn't learn very good Standard English, instead forcing others to deal with his dialect.  (He did write his textbooks in perfect Standard English with no colloquialisms.)


When some of us leave Newfoundland, we choose to change our speaking a little so the slow mainlanders can understand us. ;-)  Sounds like your prof didn't feel like doing that. 

We all learned "proper English" which is why your prof used it in writing. But using it in speech is lame in our culture. Having said that, we are well aware that our grammar is shit. Some of us are fighting an uphill battle.

Your grammar isn't bad English.  It's correct Newfoundland English.  It's basically just a different language from Standard Canadian English in the same way that French is, even if it's still close enough that people from other parts of Anglo-Canada can mostly understand you.  If people can't understand you when you talk fast, it's a language barrier the same as if you were speaking French.  It's good to learn how to speak Standard Canadian English, but treat it as a foreign language the same as if you were learning Spanish to speak to people in Mexico. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2121 on: June 24, 2021, 11:49:06 AM »


Incorrect hat usage, or non-standard cultural artifact?

Discuss.

That's clearly there to collect water if it rains.

Or stores his snacks there

There is a man who listens to Nickleback.

GuitarStv

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2122 on: June 24, 2021, 11:58:08 AM »
Standard may not be the best term.  I don't know about Canada, but there is no official standard in the US.  Unofficially, General American is the standard.  There are formal and informal registers of that dialect of English.  What we're writing right now is in the informal register.  The formal register is, in some respects, a separate language used to write formal documents.  In the formal register you would not use contractions, and you would generally prefer words with Latin or Greek roots (so called big words).  You'd also tend to not use Germanic phrasal verbs.  You wouldn't say things like "turn off" or "hook up".  You would use words and phrases like "de-energize", "remove power", or "connect".  At one point in English history, the English language was not used in any capacity in formal settings.  Modern English speakers still maintain that dichotomy to an extent by using vocabulary and phrasing derived from Anglo-Norman French, Latin, and Greek in formal situations where the informal register would employ vocabulary and phrasing derived from Anglo-Saxon roots.  At this point in history it may be appropriate to abandon use of the formal register.  However, a writer who uses the informal register in formal writing still incurs the risk of being judged negatively based on the implicit biases of the reader.  I'm guessing you can see I moved between registers at points?

I'll have to answer the rest of it later.  I've only got so much time and energy for writing linguistic treatises.

I have used and will continue to use 'turn off' over 'de-energize' while writing a technical manual.  Technical instruction is about clarity, which impacts word choice.  For example, if a device has an 'off' switch, 'de-energize' becomes confusing.  Does 'de-energize' mean removing the power cable from the device?  Does it mean draining the battery?  Does it mean discharging the capacitors?  You can mark it up in red pen all you like, but use of 'de-energize' terminology would cause customer support to have to answer questions about what is meant it seems like an odd choice to use it.

Typically I will write technical manuals in passive voice, which wouldn't be used for informal conversation though.

But regardless choice of vocabulary or voice used (both largely stylistic choices) - I'm still using standard English for both.  I'm still following the rules of standard English grammar for both.  The spelling and pronunciation of the words is the same.  There's no separate 'technical writing' dialect.

Writing instructions for people to follow is different from writing a report which needs more formal language.  A previous job involved a decent amount of report writing, and there would be a lot of red ink on the page if there was too much informal wording in the report.  If you don't have to deal with that, lucky you.  The strong distinction between colloquial and formal English probably should go away, but it's not dead yet for people that write formal documents. 

I don't think you have any good reference point for using different forms of language in different settings, but for a lot of people who aren't native speakers of the prestige dialect of a major world language, that is the reality.  A lot of people who speak regional dialects don't necessarily understand it in those terms, either, and have internalized that their native dialect is bad or incorrect.

I have no reference point for using different forms of English in different settings.

I grew up in Northern Ontario so have had plenty of occasion to speak my heavily accented and poor French and alternate back and forth with English.  I don't always understand terms in French and often need to try several times to get my point across.  I'm certainly aware of what that's like.  If the need to regularly communicate in French came up I'd have to spend more time to learn it properly (and would not argue that the Franglaise I grew up around that is so common in Northern Ontario should be reverentially treated).

nereo

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2123 on: June 24, 2021, 06:19:44 PM »


Incorrect hat usage, or non-standard cultural artifact?

Discuss.

Can we discuss the hair?  Because I’m pretty sure it’s either in-correct or non-standard.  Either way it’s likely to deflect projectiles and could possibly inflict harm during a physical altercation.

calimom

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2124 on: June 24, 2021, 09:37:15 PM »


Incorrect hat usage, or non-standard cultural artifact?

Discuss.

Can we discuss the hair?  Because I’m pretty sure it’s either in-correct or non-standard.  Either way it’s likely to deflect projectiles and could possibly inflict harm during a physical altercation.

There's quite a commitment to the hair. He looks like the kind of person who will refer to his second cousin once removed as a 'heroine addict'.

Dicey

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2125 on: June 26, 2021, 07:39:08 AM »
Could we stop with the ageism please?  Those of us who use Google know how to say it.  Although given what turns up sometimes, I am tempted to pronounce it "Giggle".  And sometimes "Goggle" is totally appropriate.  As in, I am goggling at the pathetic nonsense Google has turned up.

I don't diss millennials and Gen X/Y/Z/whatever label is in popular usage now.  You ignore how much life has changed since Boomers were young.  We have had to deal with masses of linguistic change, social change, and technological change.

Rant over.
+ 63.

Metalcat

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2126 on: June 26, 2021, 08:02:27 AM »
Could we stop with the ageism please?  Those of us who use Google know how to say it.  Although given what turns up sometimes, I am tempted to pronounce it "Giggle".  And sometimes "Goggle" is totally appropriate.  As in, I am goggling at the pathetic nonsense Google has turned up.

I don't diss millennials and Gen X/Y/Z/whatever label is in popular usage now.  You ignore how much life has changed since Boomers were young.  We have had to deal with masses of linguistic change, social change, and technological change.

Rant over.

I did not mean to be ageist. I used the example because it was the first one that popped into my head. I've had a number of older patients tell me they looked something up on "Goggle".

My apologies to anyone who found the example offensive.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2127 on: June 26, 2021, 08:27:49 AM »
Could we stop with the ageism please?  Those of us who use Google know how to say it.  Although given what turns up sometimes, I am tempted to pronounce it "Giggle".  And sometimes "Goggle" is totally appropriate.  As in, I am goggling at the pathetic nonsense Google has turned up.

I don't diss millennials and Gen X/Y/Z/whatever label is in popular usage now.  You ignore how much life has changed since Boomers were young.  We have had to deal with masses of linguistic change, social change, and technological change.

Rant over.

I did not mean to be ageist. I used the example because it was the first one that popped into my head. I've had a number of older patients tell me they looked something up on "Goggle".

My apologies to anyone who found the example offensive.

More irritatated than offended.

I see so many posts that are ageist that I have started calling them out.  Yes, most are unintentionally ageist, but they are unintentionally ageist because agism is usually an invisible "ism" in a way that racism and sexism aren't.  And I include all age groups in this, why are "Millenial this"  and "Boomer that"  headlines acceptable?  Substitute a race for the age group and see how the headline or comment reads.  If it still reads fine, ok.  If it is suddenly bad, it was ageist.


Metalcat

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2128 on: June 26, 2021, 08:51:57 AM »
Could we stop with the ageism please?  Those of us who use Google know how to say it.  Although given what turns up sometimes, I am tempted to pronounce it "Giggle".  And sometimes "Goggle" is totally appropriate.  As in, I am goggling at the pathetic nonsense Google has turned up.

I don't diss millennials and Gen X/Y/Z/whatever label is in popular usage now.  You ignore how much life has changed since Boomers were young.  We have had to deal with masses of linguistic change, social change, and technological change.

Rant over.

I did not mean to be ageist. I used the example because it was the first one that popped into my head. I've had a number of older patients tell me they looked something up on "Goggle".

My apologies to anyone who found the example offensive.

More irritatated than offended.

I see so many posts that are ageist that I have started calling them out.  Yes, most are unintentionally ageist, but they are unintentionally ageist because agism is usually an invisible "ism" in a way that racism and sexism aren't.  And I include all age groups in this, why are "Millenial this"  and "Boomer that"  headlines acceptable?  Substitute a race for the age group and see how the headline or comment reads.  If it still reads fine, ok.  If it is suddenly bad, it was ageist.

You're right. There was no need for me to specify age in giving an example of a real grammatical/pronunciation error compared to someone speaking a different dialect. Totally unnecessary. I'm okay being called out.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2129 on: June 26, 2021, 03:20:13 PM »
Could we stop with the ageism please?  Those of us who use Google know how to say it.  Although given what turns up sometimes, I am tempted to pronounce it "Giggle".  And sometimes "Goggle" is totally appropriate.  As in, I am goggling at the pathetic nonsense Google has turned up.

I don't diss millennials and Gen X/Y/Z/whatever label is in popular usage now.  You ignore how much life has changed since Boomers were young.  We have had to deal with masses of linguistic change, social change, and technological change.

Rant over.

I did not mean to be ageist. I used the example because it was the first one that popped into my head. I've had a number of older patients tell me they looked something up on "Goggle".

My apologies to anyone who found the example offensive.

More irritatated than offended.

I see so many posts that are ageist that I have started calling them out.  Yes, most are unintentionally ageist, but they are unintentionally ageist because agism is usually an invisible "ism" in a way that racism and sexism aren't.  And I include all age groups in this, why are "Millenial this"  and "Boomer that"  headlines acceptable?  Substitute a race for the age group and see how the headline or comment reads.  If it still reads fine, ok.  If it is suddenly bad, it was ageist.

You're right. There was no need for me to specify age in giving an example of a real grammatical/pronunciation error compared to someone speaking a different dialect. Totally unnecessary. I'm okay being called out.

If no one ever calls anyone else out, we will all continue on our merry ways. 

I've tried to find the Trudeau pere quote about girls/ladies/women and failed.  It was very telling in its day.

GuitarStv

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2130 on: June 26, 2021, 03:34:03 PM »
The good thing about ageism is that it will never negatively impact me.



We've got bad hearts on both sides of the family among the men, and a history of dementia.  Even if I make it that long, I'm not gonna understand what they're saying about me.  :P

frugalnacho

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2131 on: July 07, 2021, 11:22:56 AM »
My 3 year old son has created a new contraction and shortened "will not" to "willn't".  We keep correcting him and telling him it's "will not" or "won't" and willn't isn't a word, but he uses it incessantly.  It's driving mrs nacho crazy, but I think it's kind of funny.

No idea how he came up with it.  He's only 3 so he doesn't even know what a contraction is, but he willn't stop using it.

Cool Friend

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2132 on: July 07, 2021, 11:36:06 AM »
I support your son's innovation.

nessness

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2133 on: July 07, 2021, 11:56:52 AM »
My 3 year old son has created a new contraction and shortened "will not" to "willn't".  We keep correcting him and telling him it's "will not" or "won't" and willn't isn't a word, but he uses it incessantly.  It's driving mrs nacho crazy, but I think it's kind of funny.

No idea how he came up with it.  He's only 3 so he doesn't even know what a contraction is, but he willn't stop using it.
Ha - I love little-kid-isms. I'm a little sad that my kids (now 4 and 6) no longer have so many.

When my younger daughter was 3, she referred to all times in the past as "lasterday", which I actually thought was a better word than "yesterday." 😄

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2134 on: July 07, 2021, 12:00:47 PM »
I kinda wish "amn't" were a real contraction, as in "I amn't going!"

Metalcat

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2135 on: July 07, 2021, 12:05:05 PM »
I kinda wish "amn't" were a real contraction, as in "I amn't going!"

That's basically what "ain't" is, if you say "amn't" quickly, it sounds like "ain't".

shelivesthedream

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2136 on: July 07, 2021, 01:44:24 PM »
"Adopt" a dog or cat, when they mean "purchase at full price from a commercial breeder". No, you bought a dog/cat.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2137 on: July 07, 2021, 02:48:06 PM »
"Adopt" a dog or cat, when they mean "purchase at full price from a commercial breeder". No, you bought a dog/cat.
I used to work for an employer that had a very large, very active email list of employees buying and selling things. One day someone tried to find someone to adopt their dog that just wasn't working for their family. I don't know anything about dogs and am fuzzy on the details, but it was considered a fancy breed. For the adoption to go through they merely asked for a "rehoming fee" of $2,000.

windytrail

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2138 on: July 07, 2021, 02:57:11 PM »
"Adopt" a dog or cat, when they mean "purchase at full price from a commercial breeder". No, you bought a dog/cat.
Or, "[he/she] adopted me."
One of the other tenants in my building gets pet food/meds delivered. The box says something along the lines of, "medication for pet parents." Implication is that you do not own your dog anymore, rather it is like a child.

Travis

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2139 on: July 08, 2021, 07:45:29 AM »
My 3 year old son has created a new contraction and shortened "will not" to "willn't".  We keep correcting him and telling him it's "will not" or "won't" and willn't isn't a word, but he uses it incessantly.  It's driving mrs nacho crazy, but I think it's kind of funny.

No idea how he came up with it.  He's only 3 so he doesn't even know what a contraction is, but he willn't stop using it.

Can you really blame him? He combined two words like any other English contraction. It's not his fault that the recognized contraction for will not makes no sense.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2140 on: July 08, 2021, 02:53:52 PM »
My 3 year old son has created a new contraction and shortened "will not" to "willn't".  We keep correcting him and telling him it's "will not" or "won't" and willn't isn't a word, but he uses it incessantly.  It's driving mrs nacho crazy, but I think it's kind of funny.

No idea how he came up with it.  He's only 3 so he doesn't even know what a contraction is, but he willn't stop using it.

We're going through a series of adorable past tense isms with our 3yo. "Mummy, she tookened it away!" "She has gonned to bed." I love watching him learn rules and misapply them. He's so right...except for the bit where he's wrong. But the PROCESS is there, not just rote learning.

GuitarStv

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2141 on: July 08, 2021, 03:39:08 PM »
My 3 year old son has created a new contraction and shortened "will not" to "willn't".  We keep correcting him and telling him it's "will not" or "won't" and willn't isn't a word, but he uses it incessantly.  It's driving mrs nacho crazy, but I think it's kind of funny.

No idea how he came up with it.  He's only 3 so he doesn't even know what a contraction is, but he willn't stop using it.

We're going through a series of adorable past tense isms with our 3yo. "Mummy, she tookened it away!" "She has gonned to bed." I love watching him learn rules and misapply them. He's so right...except for the bit where he's wrong. But the PROCESS is there, not just rote learning.

Sometimes it feels like English is 50% rule based and 50% memorization of when to break the rules.

Travis

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2142 on: July 08, 2021, 06:38:12 PM »
My 3 year old son has created a new contraction and shortened "will not" to "willn't".  We keep correcting him and telling him it's "will not" or "won't" and willn't isn't a word, but he uses it incessantly.  It's driving mrs nacho crazy, but I think it's kind of funny.

No idea how he came up with it.  He's only 3 so he doesn't even know what a contraction is, but he willn't stop using it.

We're going through a series of adorable past tense isms with our 3yo. "Mummy, she tookened it away!" "She has gonned to bed." I love watching him learn rules and misapply them. He's so right...except for the bit where he's wrong. But the PROCESS is there, not just rote learning.

Sometimes it feels like English is 50% rule based and 50% memorization of when to break the rules.

Agreed. Didn't we have a conversation a few pages back about how written proper English just sounds weird when you say it which is why nobody does it?

Metalcat

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2143 on: July 08, 2021, 07:39:10 PM »
My 3 year old son has created a new contraction and shortened "will not" to "willn't".  We keep correcting him and telling him it's "will not" or "won't" and willn't isn't a word, but he uses it incessantly.  It's driving mrs nacho crazy, but I think it's kind of funny.

No idea how he came up with it.  He's only 3 so he doesn't even know what a contraction is, but he willn't stop using it.

We're going through a series of adorable past tense isms with our 3yo. "Mummy, she tookened it away!" "She has gonned to bed." I love watching him learn rules and misapply them. He's so right...except for the bit where he's wrong. But the PROCESS is there, not just rote learning.

My baby brother used to say "he got gotted" whenever the dog would try to escape me putting him in his crate and I would catch him. To this day, whenever I have to grab one of my pets to cut their nails to something, I say "you got gotted".

frugalnacho

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2144 on: July 08, 2021, 10:00:31 PM »
He does all kind of grammar mistakes on a regular basis, like "she taked away the train" or "the cat getted the ball", but we correct him and he seems to learn and not make the same mistakes over and over.  But he just willn't stop using willn't. I can't tell if he just likes using it, or he is aware it's triggering his mom so he's doing it on purpose at this point, or what.  She was cool with it and thought it was funny like the first 10 times, but the next 100 just seem to frustrate her.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2145 on: July 09, 2021, 07:57:33 AM »
Speaking of toddlers talk...


DW & I used to blow glass.  When asked "What do your parents do?" our 3-4 y/o DD would reply "They "Ho Ass".  That answer always required clarification.  LOL




Edit:  And of course she'd tell them that we were "really good" at it.  :)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 07:59:16 AM by GreenEggs »

GuitarStv

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2146 on: July 09, 2021, 08:41:09 AM »
Speaking of toddlers talk...


DW & I used to blow glass.  When asked "What do your parents do?" our 3-4 y/o DD would reply "They "Ho Ass".  That answer always required clarification.  LOL




Edit:  And of course she'd tell them that we were "really good" at it.  :)


No explanation necessary.  Just reply "Damn right we do honey",  while making level and solid eye contact with the person you're discussing the topic with.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2147 on: July 10, 2021, 02:06:43 PM »
We used to call #2 "Baby Hername". Everyone would ask #1 what his little sisters name was, and it always came out sounding like "Beyonce". I'm never sure I struck the right amount of emphasis in saying, "No no, it really isn't."

BlueHouse

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2148 on: July 11, 2021, 08:22:26 AM »
"Adopt" a dog or cat, when they mean "purchase at full price from a commercial breeder". No, you bought a dog/cat.
Or, "[he/she] adopted me."
One of the other tenants in my building gets pet food/meds delivered. The box says something along the lines of, "medication for pet parents." Implication is that you do not own your dog anymore, rather it is like a child.

I know...many pet people go way overboard.  But...

Well, I have a dog and I really don't like when pet parents call their dogs their "fur babies" , but I like my dog a lot more than I ever thought I would and once the caring part of me started to develop, I really don't like to talk about my relationship as an "owner" of another living thing.  So I usually call myself his caretaker, or he's 'my pup", etc.  I even feel badly when I look at his collar and wonder how I would like to have to wear that and be on a leash (I know...safety). 

I'd just say, get yourself a pet and I bet you'll start to feel differently.

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Re: Words/phrases I wish would go away
« Reply #2149 on: July 14, 2021, 07:24:42 PM »
I know...many pet people go way overboard.  But...

Well, I have a dog and I really don't like when pet parents call their dogs their "fur babies" , but I like my dog a lot more than I ever thought I would and once the caring part of me started to develop, I really don't like to talk about my relationship as an "owner" of another living thing.  So I usually call myself his caretaker, or he's 'my pup", etc.  I even feel badly when I look at his collar and wonder how I would like to have to wear that and be on a leash (I know...safety).

I'd just say, get yourself a pet and I bet you'll start to feel differently.
That's fine, understood that many people develop friendships with their pets. It may sound callous but I only enjoy caring for other non-human living things that are of functional use, i.e. sourdough starter, garden veggies, fruit trees, compost piles. We joke about our worms (vermicomposting) being pets sometimes, but the truth is if they died I'd feel bad for a few days then go buy new ones, no problem.