Author Topic: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)  (Read 2203 times)

accolay

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Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« on: May 24, 2018, 10:08:18 AM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-defense-chief-plans-2500-new-west-bank-settler-homes/ar-AAxJfIY?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

What could go wrong?

Thought this was funny (ironic, not ha ha):
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U.S. officials have said President Donald Trump is to unveil the plan in the coming months.
I just can't wait for that. Since his Nobel Prize aspiration track record has been so good.

davisgang90

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2018, 05:12:56 PM »
From the article:

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Israel captured the West Bank and east Jerusalem in the 1967 Mideast war and has since built dozens of settlements there. Over 600,000 Israelis now live in east Jerusalem and West Bank settlements, areas Palestinians seek for their future state.

Israel was attacked by its neighbors, beat them and took the land.  That's how war works.

The Palestinians are the most indulged group of "refugees" in the history of the word.  Their elected party in power's charter calls for the destruction of Israel.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 05:22:18 PM »
The Palestinians have definitely lost Jerusalem and probably nearly all of the West Bank for good. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are behind Israel now, since much of the region has moved on from kibbitzing the Israel/Palestine issue to counteracting the threat of Iran's growing regional influence.

scottish

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 07:40:13 PM »
A sensitive subject for sure, with no simple answers.

If democracy in the middle east expands it may be worth it.   I wonder if Trump's embassy move will significantly change things.

PKFFW

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 08:40:10 PM »
Israel was attacked by its neighbors, beat them and took the land.  That's how war works.
You forgot the bit where the Western powers effectively invaded an already occupied land and gave a part of it to Israel to begin with.

The issue isn't as simple as Israel = good Palestinians = bad.

pecunia

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 09:33:16 PM »
scottish:

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If democracy in the middle east expands it may be worth it.

Even that is no guarantee.  Iran elected a guy in the 50s.  The oil companies didn't like his policies so they had the CIA put the Shah in power.

davisgang90

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2018, 04:22:09 AM »
Israel was attacked by its neighbors, beat them and took the land.  That's how war works.
You forgot the bit where the Western powers effectively invaded an already occupied land and gave a part of it to Israel to begin with.

The issue isn't as simple as Israel = good Palestinians = bad.
I didn't forget.  It was the Ottoman Empire and they lost WWI.  Then the Brits and the French came in and drew straight lines all over Africa and the Middle East regardless of ethnicity/tribe/etc. 

The Palestinian refugees in Jordan and elsewhere have been specifically kept in camps instead of being integrated into society all to fan the flames of hatred.

The Gaza strip was a pretty nice place when it was turned over to the Palestinians.  Act one was to destroy anything built by the "Zionists". 

scottish

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2018, 04:18:01 PM »
Israel was attacked by its neighbors, beat them and took the land.  That's how war works.
You forgot the bit where the Western powers effectively invaded an already occupied land and gave a part of it to Israel to begin with.

The issue isn't as simple as Israel = good Palestinians = bad.

I wonder if there's some other country that effectively invaded and took land away from the current occupants.   Let me think about that!

rbuck

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2018, 04:59:11 PM »
scottish:

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If democracy in the middle east expands it may be worth it.

Even that is no guarantee.  Iran elected a guy in the 50s.  The oil companies didn't like his policies so they had the CIA put the Shah in power.

They were not happy about the nationalization of the oil industry which included their equipment but let's not leave out the whole geo-political war that was going on at the time between the US and Russia. In other words the fact that the prime minister was a Communist would have been enough reason to overthrow the government.

px4shooter

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2018, 05:42:49 PM »
Bout time the consulate was moved. It was made law in 1995, under Clinton. Took over 20 years for someone to finally recognize their capital.

accolay

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2018, 08:27:14 PM »
Israel was attacked by its neighbors, beat them and took the land.  That's how war works.

Is that how war works?. The only wars I've lived through are the ones that America can't and never could win. And basically everything since Korea. (Can't wait for what happens with the current Secretary of State Iran war dance by the way)

I don't think winning in war, taking land, making agreements with everyone as to how that land is going to be used- then reneging, and then having the U.S. move the embassy to Jerusalem is really going to lead to peace in the area. Know what I mean? My cynical side sometimes wonders why they don't just kill each other so I don't have to hear anymore tit-for-tat BS and so we wont have to send our kids to die again, but I know that most who live there are innocent.

But from the comments thus far, I'm sure things will be just fine.

bacchi

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 11:28:01 PM »
Someone should arm the Palestinians with tanks and jets and military consultants and let both sides duke it out. When Israel is facing an enemy its own size, and the Palestinians can demand a state, there can be peace.

Of course, the US won't care in about 30 years when the Saudi spigot runs dry.

davisgang90

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2018, 08:37:28 AM »
Israel was attacked by its neighbors, beat them and took the land.  That's how war works.
You forgot the bit where the Western powers effectively invaded an already occupied land and gave a part of it to Israel to begin with.

The issue isn't as simple as Israel = good Palestinians = bad.

I wonder if there's some other country that effectively invaded and took land away from the current occupants.   Let me think about that!
Canada!

px4shooter

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2018, 08:59:10 AM »
Someone should arm the Palestinians with tanks and jets and military consultants and let both sides duke it out. When Israel is facing an enemy its own size, and the Palestinians can demand a state, there can be peace.

Of course, the US won't care in about 30 years when the Saudi spigot runs dry.

The desire for existence of the Palestinian state is not about balance. It is about ridding the Jewish people from that area. There can't be peace when one side is not desiring peace and only wants to eliminate the entire group of people.

The two state solution is touted as the end all to violence, while blatantly ignoring the main view that the Jewish people need to be removed from the entire area.

scottish

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2018, 09:39:04 AM »
Someone should arm the Palestinians with tanks and jets and military consultants and let both sides duke it out. When Israel is facing an enemy its own size, and the Palestinians can demand a state, there can be peace.

Of course, the US won't care in about 30 years when the Saudi spigot runs dry.

Didn't work out so well last time.   Hard to believe that a society based on ability would succeed over one based on patriarchy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

bacchi

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 01:25:01 PM »
Someone should arm the Palestinians with tanks and jets and military consultants and let both sides duke it out. When Israel is facing an enemy its own size, and the Palestinians can demand a state, there can be peace.

Of course, the US won't care in about 30 years when the Saudi spigot runs dry.

The desire for existence of the Palestinian state is not about balance. It is about ridding the Jewish people from that area.

No, it's not. I know this is the Likud party line but the Jewish people's "eternal" right to the land is ancient history.

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The two state solution is touted as the end all to violence, while blatantly ignoring the main view that the Jewish people need to be removed from the entire area.

It's not gonna change if we just ignore that one side is living in extreme poverty and feign astonishment that they're angry about it.

bacchi

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 01:31:59 PM »
Israel was attacked by its neighbors, beat them and took the land.  That's how war works.
You forgot the bit where the Western powers effectively invaded an already occupied land and gave a part of it to Israel to begin with.

The issue isn't as simple as Israel = good Palestinians = bad.

I wonder if there's some other country that effectively invaded and took land away from the current occupants.   Let me think about that!
Canada!

The Dutch and Brits in South Africa! The Belgians in Congo! The Chinese in Tibet!

davisgang90

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 03:58:34 PM »
Someone should arm the Palestinians with tanks and jets and military consultants and let both sides duke it out. When Israel is facing an enemy its own size, and the Palestinians can demand a state, there can be peace.

Of course, the US won't care in about 30 years when the Saudi spigot runs dry.

The desire for existence of the Palestinian state is not about balance. It is about ridding the Jewish people from that area.

No, it's not. I know this is the Likud party line but the Jewish people's "eternal" right to the land is ancient history.

Quote
The two state solution is touted as the end all to violence, while blatantly ignoring the main view that the Jewish people need to be removed from the entire area.

It's not gonna change if we just ignore that one side is living in extreme poverty and feign astonishment that they're angry about it.
They live in extreme poverty because the government they've chosen spends the largess on tunnels, bombs and rockets.  They get large amounts of money from the US, the UN and others.  Hamas doesn't choose to spend it improving the lives of Palestinians.

bacchi

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 04:01:36 PM »
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It's not gonna change if we just ignore that one side is living in extreme poverty and feign astonishment that they're angry about it.
They live in extreme poverty because the government they've chosen spends the largess on tunnels, bombs and rockets.  They get large amounts of money from the US, the UN and others.  Hamas doesn't choose to spend it improving the lives of Palestinians.

True enough. So your solution is to just say, "Fuck 'em"? The poor will always be the poor, the oppressed will always be the oppressed, turn down the AC.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 04:16:35 PM by bacchi »

scottish

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2018, 04:49:12 PM »
I haven't heard any good solutions.    What should be done?

I've often thought that Canada should welcome the Israelis.    They would be a huge boost to our economy.   Getting used to the winters would be a challenge, but still, no more rocket attacks, no more cafe bombings.    We could move Technion to one of our prairie cities and start a whole new technology ecosystem.

Unfortunately I don't think they would go for it.   There are too many cultural attachments to the middle east, especially Jerusalem.

Let's blue sky ideas.   How should the Palestine/Israel problem be solved?

bacchi

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2018, 05:39:32 PM »
Let's blue sky ideas.   How should the Palestine/Israel problem be solved?

Follow Israel's lead and build a big(ger) ass wall. The difference being that Israelites can't leak out of the wall and build new IDF-backed settlements. They can try to build new settlements but no weapons are allowed (in or out) and it's tough-shit-if-you-get-attacked when you try and build a community.

Then follow the UBI experiments and give people money. Maybe 10 years at a reasonable living income. People can build bombs in the hopes they'll sneak through the wall, or they can start a business, or they can grow food.

This will of course require open movement of goods through Palestine ports. There will be no more blockades, no more cafe bombings, no more armored bulldozers, no more bus suiciders (airport style screenings can be used through the wall).

Why this won't work:
1) Too many extremists on each side. You have manifest destiny colonizers on one side and you have "drive the Jews into the sea" haters on the other side.
2) People have a kneejerk reaction to walls, and with good reason.


This doesn't solve the shared city problem.

davisgang90

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2018, 05:13:01 AM »
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It's not gonna change if we just ignore that one side is living in extreme poverty and feign astonishment that they're angry about it.
They live in extreme poverty because the government they've chosen spends the largess on tunnels, bombs and rockets.  They get large amounts of money from the US, the UN and others.  Hamas doesn't choose to spend it improving the lives of Palestinians.

True enough. So your solution is to just say, "Fuck 'em"? The poor will always be the poor, the oppressed will always be the oppressed, turn down the AC.
The Palestinians need to accept that true peace with Israel is in their self-interest.  Until then, they continue to be oppressed by the leaders they've chosen.  Once again, they are poor based on their own decision to allow Hamas to spend their money on attacking Israel. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2018, 08:05:01 AM »
I haven't heard any good solutions.    What should be done?

I've often thought that Canada should welcome the Israelis.    They would be a huge boost to our economy.   Getting used to the winters would be a challenge, but still, no more rocket attacks, no more cafe bombings.    We could move Technion to one of our prairie cities and start a whole new technology ecosystem.

Unfortunately I don't think they would go for it.   There are too many cultural attachments to the middle east, especially Jerusalem.

Let's blue sky ideas.   How should the Palestine/Israel problem be solved?

Why would Israel ever want to give up the power they currently enjoy?

The Israelis are in a position of total power over the Palestinians.  The Israelis collect and withhold all tarriffs and duties for Palestine (and pay the Palestinians what is collected sometimes).  They impose their own laws on Palestinian territory regarding curfews, flow of goods, construction.  They control Palestinian water and land use.  They police Palestinian territories and detain/arrest people with impunity, then (if trials are held) hold trials in Israeli courts.  They control movement into and out of Palestine.  This is active oppression, and the Palestinian people will never be happy living under it.  Israel has no motivation or reason to give up this power.

I don't know how it should be solved, but I can tell you how the Israel/Palestine conflict will be solved.  Israel will continue to annex Palestinian territories as they have steadily done since the creation of the nation of Israel by condoning and protecting 'settlers' and expanding borders to include settled areas.  Once there is no more Palestine on maps, they will do a combination of expelling the Palestinian people from the country (through direct decree, or indirectly by making life miserable for them - a policy that is well underway already), and will culturally suppress Palestinian identity until none remains within the borders of Israel.  Then there will be a long period of time where Palestinians will continue to mount futile attempts to get their land back from the aggressors (which will be aided in minor ways by other Arab countries).  This will never go away entirely, but will slowly die down to very low levels.

Thus, peace.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 08:54:32 AM by GuitarStv »

bacchi

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2018, 08:31:39 AM »
Quote
It's not gonna change if we just ignore that one side is living in extreme poverty and feign astonishment that they're angry about it.
They live in extreme poverty because the government they've chosen spends the largess on tunnels, bombs and rockets.  They get large amounts of money from the US, the UN and others.  Hamas doesn't choose to spend it improving the lives of Palestinians.

True enough. So your solution is to just say, "Fuck 'em"? The poor will always be the poor, the oppressed will always be the oppressed, turn down the AC.

The Palestinians need to accept that true peace with Israel is in their self-interest.  Until then, they continue to be oppressed by the leaders they've chosen.  Once again, they are poor based on their own decision to allow Hamas to spend their money on attacking Israel.

So Israeli leadership wants peace with the Palestinians? Ha, good one. Rabin was killed 20 years ago.

There's no evidence that Israeli leadership wants real peace with Palestine. Hell, they violate the Fourth Geneva Convention regularly (well, they would, but their excuse is...Palestine isn't a state so it doesn't apply. Convenient.)

Being the larger power, Israel owns the majority of the cards in this game. They can work towards a 2 state solution but, as Kerry and Trump and many others noted, they don't want to do so.

davisgang90

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2018, 04:49:56 PM »
70 rockets launched into Israel from Gaza yesterday.  This is a regular occurrence.  But no money for food or medicine.

PKFFW

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2018, 04:56:31 PM »
70 rockets launched into Israel from Gaza yesterday.  This is a regular occurrence.  But no money for food or medicine.
Just out of curiosity, if the USA were ever invaded and handed to an occupying force would you be advocating for the current population to simply accept that and get on with their lives?  And should they do anything to resist the situation would you advocate that their poverty and oppression is all their own doing?

Of course that would never happen since the USA is strong enough to resist the invasion and subsequent occupation and I assume from your comments your position is based on the twin fundamentals of "might makes right" and "to the victor go the spoils" but go with it as a thought experiment if you will.

scottish

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2018, 03:58:34 PM »
I think a better analogy would be if Mexico were to regularly launch rockets into US cities.   Say San Diego, Phoenix and Houston.

Would what the US response be?    Would you send food and aid?

PKFFW

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2018, 04:10:21 PM »
I think a better analogy would be if Mexico were to regularly launch rockets into US cities.   Say San Diego, Phoenix and Houston.

Would what the US response be?    Would you send food and aid?
If the USA, with the assistance of the rest of the western world, were to annex Mexico and occupy an area of it and then continue to expand that occupied area I wouldn't put the entire blame on the occupied people.

Would you?

GuitarStv

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2018, 05:49:37 PM »
I think a better analogy would be if Mexico were to regularly launch rockets into US cities.   Say San Diego, Phoenix and Houston.

Would what the US response be?    Would you send food and aid?
If the USA, with the assistance of the rest of the western world, were to annex Mexico and occupy an area of it and then continue to expand that occupied area I wouldn't put the entire blame on the occupied people.

Would you?

Texas, California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, some of Wyoming were all Mexico in the past.  The difference is, there was no pretense.  The US wanted the land, they invaded, they conquered.  End of story.

The problem with Israel comes from the fact that Palestine was never conquered.  The Jewish people pretended to be coming in peace to the area after WWII, rather than as the conquerors they turned out to be and they have continued to take land for decades now while still pretending not to be conquerors.  It would be better for everyone if they stopped pretending and just wiped out Palestine quickly . . . but it wouldn't fit with the false narrative of a people defending themselves that Israel desperately clings to.  The motion invasion that they've been doing for more than 50 years now is kinda unique in the history of the world.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2018, 06:49:15 PM »
I think a better analogy would be if Mexico were to regularly launch rockets into US cities.   Say San Diego, Phoenix and Houston.

Would what the US response be?    Would you send food and aid?
If the USA, with the assistance of the rest of the western world, were to annex Mexico and occupy an area of it and then continue to expand that occupied area I wouldn't put the entire blame on the occupied people.

Would you?

Texas, California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, some of Wyoming were all Mexico in the past.  The difference is, there was no pretense.  The US wanted the land, they invaded, they conquered.  End of story.

The problem with Israel comes from the fact that Palestine was never conquered.  The Jewish people pretended to be coming in peace to the area after WWII, rather than as the conquerors they turned out to be and they have continued to take land for decades now while still pretending not to be conquerors.  It would be better for everyone if they stopped pretending and just wiped out Palestine quickly . . . but it wouldn't fit with the false narrative of a people defending themselves that Israel desperately clings to.  The motion invasion that they've been doing for more than 50 years now is kinda unique in the history of the world.
If Jordan and its annexed West Bank territory hadn't entered the Six Day War against Israel, Palestine would be in a different position today... You seem to frame the history of the region as being one of Israeli expansionism when it is a far murkier one where Israel is repeatedly trying to ensure its security among its bellicose neighbors. The same mistaken motivations are tied to Russia all the time: they never wanted to conquer the world but they did get very tired of being invaded repeatedly from the west after a few centuries of that business--so they ended up establishing a vast frontier of client states once they had that chance.

bacchi

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2018, 10:08:31 PM »
If Jordan and its annexed West Bank territory hadn't entered the Six Day War against Israel, Palestine would be in a different position today... You seem to frame the history of the region as being one of Israeli expansionism when it is a far murkier one where Israel is repeatedly trying to ensure its security among its bellicose neighbors. The same mistaken motivations are tied to Russia all the time: they never wanted to conquer the world but they did get very tired of being invaded repeatedly from the west after a few centuries of that business--so they ended up establishing a vast frontier of client states once they had that chance.

So settlement expansion is just a way to ensure its security? It has nothing to do with the "eternal and indisputable" right of the land of Israel, which prevents "the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river"? Because they're afraid of being invaded by...impoverished Palestinians?

Israel won the war over 50 years ago. They refuse to grant Israeli citizenship to the Palestinians and refuse to consider a Palestinian state. As J.M. Coatzee said,

Quote
“Apartheid was a system of enforced segregation based on race or ethnicity, put in place by an exclusive, self defined group in order to consolidate colonial conquest particular to cement its hold on the land and natural resources,”

Yes, there are terrorist attacks on Israel. No one has denied this. However, it takes two to tango, and Israel is keeping up their end of the bargain made in hell.

GuitarStv

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2018, 07:23:38 AM »
I think a better analogy would be if Mexico were to regularly launch rockets into US cities.   Say San Diego, Phoenix and Houston.

Would what the US response be?    Would you send food and aid?
If the USA, with the assistance of the rest of the western world, were to annex Mexico and occupy an area of it and then continue to expand that occupied area I wouldn't put the entire blame on the occupied people.

Would you?

Texas, California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, some of Wyoming were all Mexico in the past.  The difference is, there was no pretense.  The US wanted the land, they invaded, they conquered.  End of story.

The problem with Israel comes from the fact that Palestine was never conquered.  The Jewish people pretended to be coming in peace to the area after WWII, rather than as the conquerors they turned out to be and they have continued to take land for decades now while still pretending not to be conquerors.  It would be better for everyone if they stopped pretending and just wiped out Palestine quickly . . . but it wouldn't fit with the false narrative of a people defending themselves that Israel desperately clings to.  The motion invasion that they've been doing for more than 50 years now is kinda unique in the history of the world.
If Jordan and its annexed West Bank territory hadn't entered the Six Day War against Israel, Palestine would be in a different position today... You seem to frame the history of the region as being one of Israeli expansionism when it is a far murkier one where Israel is repeatedly trying to ensure its security among its bellicose neighbors. The same mistaken motivations are tied to Russia all the time: they never wanted to conquer the world but they did get very tired of being invaded repeatedly from the west after a few centuries of that business--so they ended up establishing a vast frontier of client states once they had that chance.

I frame the history as one of Israeli expansionism, as that is the entire history of Israel.  It started immediately after western powers began to help Jewish people immigrate to the area and they repeatedly broke the treaties which had set upper limits on the numbers of people allowed to come over.  At no point in history since this time has Israeli expansion into Palestinian territory ever stopped.  The Jewish people in the area have always intended to conquer the land, it's what Zionism is all about.  The problem with the area (as I mentioned) is that it has historically been very important for Israelis to pretend that they are defending themselves, rather than simply complete their invasion quickly (which would bring greater peace in the long term).

scottish

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2018, 04:15:30 PM »
I've often wondered if Israel should just invade Palestine and start integrating them into their society.   I don't think the world would stand for it though.


davisgang90

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2018, 02:47:48 PM »
The entire middle east is a football field and Israel is a matchbook on the 50 yard line.  If Israel will just give up half the matchbook, everyone can be friends.

px4shooter

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2018, 09:01:02 PM »
The entire middle east is a football field and Israel is a matchbook on the 50 yard line.  If Israel will just give up half the matchbook, everyone can be friends.

One half being their lives. The other half being their land.

Which half should they pick?


GuitarStv

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2018, 06:57:21 AM »
The entire middle east is a football field and Israel is a matchbook on the 50 yard line.  If Israel will just give up half the matchbook, everyone can be friends.

One half being their lives. The other half being their land.

Which half should they pick?



If they were living on 'their' land there wouldn't be any conflict.

davisgang90

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2018, 10:35:32 AM »
The entire middle east is a football field and Israel is a matchbook on the 50 yard line.  If Israel will just give up half the matchbook, everyone can be friends.

One half being their lives. The other half being their land.

Which half should they pick?



If they were living on 'their' land there wouldn't be any conflict.
Steve might feel differently if the Huron Indian Nation was lobbing rockets at Toronto to take back "their" land.

scottish

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2018, 01:12:08 PM »
Indeed.    Damn those Hurons, we should put them in camps and re-educate their kids to fit into our society.

Wait, this sounds familiar...

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Re: Why is Everybody Always Picking on Me? (Israel)
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2018, 01:39:57 PM »
I've often wondered if Israel should just invade Palestine and start integrating them into their society.   I don't think the world would stand for it though.
Israel will never do this because the joint Israel-Palestine would be a majority Palestinian population.  The comparison with apartheid South Africa would have then become completely unavoidable, rather than the semi-plausible deniability which is currently exercised by Israel and accepted by her allies.