Author Topic: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?  (Read 47639 times)

Ottawa

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2014, 06:06:46 AM »
I disagree.  The vast majority of overweight people over eat and under exercise.  End of story. 

I'm...not sure what you're disagreeing with. My experiences and people that I've run into in life? Not sure how you can do that. Maybe your experiences are different. Was it my suggestion that we separate the discussion of "poor diet and sedentary lifestyle" from body type, because while it might be dominant it is not a given? It's not like this excludes fat people with nutritionally deficient diets and habits, it just focuses the conversation on what really matters for health outcomes without assuming a body type.

Thought experiment. You're walking down the street and see two girls, both 5' tall, one is about 45kg, the other about 70kg. Each is eating an ice cream. What are your thoughts?  I feel like you'd judge the heavier girl much more harshly. But I know both these ladies personally. The first one survives on a diet of mac&cheese and Totino's pizza rolls (and always has); she has no active hobbies. The second has struggled with her weight since childhood, but eats a varied diet with lots of veggies and meat and few starches, snacks on fresh fruit; she weightlifts religiously. That ice cream is probably the only sweet treat she's having all month. And this isn't just these two friends, I've routinely found my heavier friends much more careful about their eating habits. That's my experience. I wasn't speaking to population-level trends.

But I do still think that if you're focusing on "all those fat people who are unhealthy because they do X, Y, and Z" then it's not fair to exclude the skinny people who are unhealthy because of X, Y, and Z, too and pretend it's just a "fat people problem."

Sorry...let define.  I started to write something about 'thin' but didn't post it.  So let me disagree as follows:  :-)

1) I disagree with the implication that because you haven't met many people who eat poorly on a regular basis and are overweight...then overweight people must therefore not eat poorly.  I now realize you didn't intend that globally; rather you were just providing your anecdotal viewpoint.

2) talking about thin people who eat poorly or (I know you didn't say the next category of health issues exclusive to thin people but) are bulimic\anorexic is beyond the scope of what I was intending this topic.  I don't disagree there are thin people that eat poorly. However they are not likely to be the focus of the biggest bang for your buck type of campaign in terms of getting people in the overall population to be more healthy.

GuitarStv

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2014, 06:07:22 AM »
Thought experiment. You're walking down the street and see two girls, both 5' tall, one is about 45kg, the other about 70kg. Each is eating an ice cream. What are your thoughts?  I feel like you'd judge the heavier girl much more harshly. But I know both these ladies personally. The first one survives on a diet of mac&cheese and Totino's pizza rolls (and always has); she has no active hobbies. The second has struggled with her weight since childhood, but eats a varied diet with lots of veggies and meat and few starches, snacks on fresh fruit; she weightlifts religiously. That ice cream is probably the only sweet treat she's having all month. And this isn't just these two friends, I've routinely found my heavier friends much more careful about their eating habits.

I'm 6' and about 210 lbs . . . but my waist size on my pants is the same as when I was in high school (32") and weighed 180.  Most of my life I've been very active, so putting on weight has usually been difficult for me.

Throughout university I survived on donuts, chocolate milk, macaroni and cheese, hot dogs, and pizza . . . without ever going over 190 lbs.  I was very active though, playing soccer three times a week, walking everywhere (no car), teaching Tae Kwon Do classes, and doing some wrestling.  You certainly don't have to eat a healthy diet to maintain a lower weight.  If you're horking back the calories though, you need to burn them off somehow to avoid getting fat.

If your heavy friends are more careful about their eating habits, then they're less intense with regards to exercise.  Or maybe they're just careful about their eating habits when they're around you (which is pretty common, I knew a morbidly obese girl who would only ever eat a third of a salad and drink water whenever she was out at a restaurant for this reason).  There's something wrong with the scenario of the careful eater who vigorously exercises and is fat that you're describing though.  It's like claiming to have invented a perpetual motion machine.  Energy comes from somewhere.  Fat is stored energy.

* FWIW - I don't particularly think that thin/weak people are any healthier than overweight people, although we seem to fetishize thinness a bit in our society at the moment . . . possibly just because it's not the norm.

Ottawa

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2014, 06:15:04 AM »

If your heavy friends are more careful about their eating habits, then they're less intense with regards to exercise.  Or maybe they're just careful about their eating habits when they're around you (which is pretty common, I knew a morbidly obese girl who would only ever eat a third of a salad and drink water whenever she was out at a restaurant for this reason).  There's something wrong with the scenario of the careful eater who vigorously exercises and is fat that you're describing though.  It's like claiming to have invented a perpetual motion machine.  Energy comes from somewhere.  Fat is stored energy.

this!

Btw
I am 5'11" and 185...bmi=25.1.
This suggests overweight. 
But bf= 10.5%.
So I would not be categorized properly on bmi alone.
 
Like GuitarStv I have adopted large amounts of exercise and activities as part of my lifestyle.  We also cook everything from scratch at home and don't eat out. We almost never have anything processed in our house.  This is what you need to do in order to stay in a fit and healthy weight range.

galliver : i'm interested in this topic because I have some other people in my family who do struggle with weight and it's very obvious to see where they're falling down. To me it usually seems to be they want to become healthy and fit but the motivation fails.

ace1224

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2014, 06:23:15 AM »
i'm overweight, technically.  not by much lately, and the fact that my kid has recently developed an interest in kayaking (of all things ugh) means i've lost a bit recently.  i could prolly lose about 15 lbs more.
i'm overweight because i like to eat and i hate to exercise and it just doesn't bother me.  salad is never going to taste as good to me as cheesy drippy pizza.  i am never going to like running as much as i like watching the real housewives on tv.  in fact i kind of hate running..... a lot. 

i just don't care enough, end of story.  the science behind losing weight is crazy simple for the *most* part.  you just have to burn more than you take in.  but to do that requires more work than i am willing to put in, so i have no one to blame but myself that i weigh 15 pounds more than i should, possibly even 20. 
for me personally, i rather be happy and overweight than in shape and miserable.  and until the balance tips and i'm unhappy with being overweight i'm just gonna remain with the status quo. 

brewer12345

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2014, 08:10:54 AM »
I am 5 foot 11 and 200 pounds on a good day.  Do the BMI math if you like, but it means I get nagged at every doctor visit.  Why am I 20 pounds heavier than I am supposed to be?  Part of it is portion control, some is genetics, some is being raised by parents who grew up poor, part is a legacy of 20 years in a cube.  I am trying to slowly drop weight.  It is not easy despite Hugh physical activity levels, rarely eating out, and making the vast majority of our food.  I make my own granola, I got.d my own flour by hand,I catch most of the fish we eat, I eat game I have shot regularly.  Still hard to lose weight.

I think I've just located my rural twin....  ;-)  I'm a bit luckier though, I can actually lose weight fairly efficiently when I put my mind and body to the task. I'm still in the cube though. I did not grow up poor, but damn near everything else is a match. I just eat and drink too much, plain and simple.

Painfully suburban, actually.  Would be rural, but DW does not want to be out there and the schools are very good where we live.

I actually did not grow up poor (far from it); my parents did.  Even though I never wanted for anything, the fact that the next meal was uncertain (unless you fished for it or poached in Dad's case) created certain food habits and attitudes that rubbed off on me.  To this day, I am a lot happier when I can buy staples in bulk and have them on hand even when it is no cheaper to do so.  I was foolishly happy to buy a 50 pound sack of garbanzos recently at the same price delivered I can get them at the local grocery store.  Makes no real sense, but since it does not hurt anything and it scratches an admittedly illogical itch I allow myself to do things like that within reason.

I can drop weight during periods of intense activity.  In the month leading up to a transcontinental move, we did a purge of belongings and about filled a 30 cubic yard dumpster all by hand.  I dropped weight like crazy then.  But during the winter I struggle to break even despite the fact that I get as much activity as I can (all day hunting trips on my feet carrying gear at least once a week, etc.).  Still waiting to see how and if things change as an ER.

Rural

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2014, 08:50:33 AM »
Growing up poor does have an effect on eating habits, that's for sure.


 I'm careful about what I put on my plate, because I will clean it, for example. No one ever told me about starving children elsewhere as a child, either. But while we were never quite truly food insecure, in my early childhood we had nothing extra at all, and much of what we did have was what my mother canned from the gardens in summer. On the bright side, it meant that I never was a picky eater (one single exception: eggs are foul unless hard boiled). My father was actually hungry as a child; I knew what it meant, but never quite got there, though in retrospect I know my mother occasionally went hungry so that I (and my father, who had to have the energy to work) would have enough. By the time I was old enough for school, this had pretty well changed, but the early impressions stick.


My husband, on the other hand, was raised by his grandfather, who very nearly starved during the depression, and had significant food insecurity/ insufficiency as a child and teenager himself. Another reason I'm careful about what I put on my plate is that if I don't finish it, he will, even if he actually hurts himself, because you don't waste food. You don't know when you will get more, after all. That sort of thing is ingrained and I don't think logic can change it. Like his father and his grandfather before him, he gained a great deal of weight in boot camp because of how well they feed new recruits.


This history could, of course, lead us both into significant trouble if we aren't careful, especially given that, in part, I learned to cook from my grandmother, who raised eleven children and still cooked for a herd; I have trouble with cooking for two, though I think I naturally tend toward cooking for about four, not the thirteen she fed. We manage this by keeping a deep freezer for leftovers and bulk purchases. (This also helps with the anxiety around food we both otherwise experience, and it lets me take advantage of deals.) Psychologically as well as literally, food that's going into the freezer for later is not wasted. Much of the time, I go ahead and package the leftovers before I serve any food; that helps, too.


So far, we've both avoided anything more than very minor cosmetic extra weight -- he carries enough muscle mass that his BMI is high, but body fat is just under 20% based on the Navy calculations, a little higher than the actual percentage, likely, because of his upper-body muscle mass. My BMI is in the acceptable range, but I would like to lose a pants size; body fat per the Navy has me at 21%, which I think is a little lower than the truth.


But if I weren't constantly mindful, or if we were still poor, or even if we didn't have a deep freezer because of financial or space constraints... well. I think the ingrained patterns of thought from both of our childhoods, coupled with the abundance now available so cheaply in America, would lead us into serious trouble. Him especially, both because the hunger in his and his family's past was more serious and because his background is not rural but town, which limited the options for getting food without money. It's hard for me to judge obviously poor people who are overweight, especially if they're older than 40-45.




greaper007

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2014, 08:54:37 AM »
I am 5 foot 11 and 200 pounds on a good day.  Do the BMI math if you like, but it means I get nagged at every doctor visit.  Why am I 20 pounds heavier than I am supposed to be?  Part of it is portion control, some is genetics, some is being raised by parents who grew up poor, part is a legacy of 20 years in a cube.  I am trying to slowly drop weight.  It is not easy despite Hugh physical activity levels, rarely eating out, and making the vast majority of our food.  I make my own granola, I got.d my own flour by hand,I catch most of the fish we eat, I eat game I have shot regularly.  Still hard to lose weight.

I think I've just located my rural twin....  ;-)  I'm a bit luckier though, I can actually lose weight fairly efficiently when I put my mind and body to the task. I'm still in the cube though. I did not grow up poor, but damn near everything else is a match. I just eat and drink too much, plain and simple.

Painfully suburban, actually.  Would be rural, but DW does not want to be out there and the schools are very good where we live.

I actually did not grow up poor (far from it); my parents did.  Even though I never wanted for anything, the fact that the next meal was uncertain (unless you fished for it or poached in Dad's case) created certain food habits and attitudes that rubbed off on me.  To this day, I am a lot happier when I can buy staples in bulk and have them on hand even when it is no cheaper to do so.  I was foolishly happy to buy a 50 pound sack of garbanzos recently at the same price delivered I can get them at the local grocery store.  Makes no real sense, but since it does not hurt anything and it scratches an admittedly illogical itch I allow myself to do things like that within reason.

I can drop weight during periods of intense activity.  In the month leading up to a transcontinental move, we did a purge of belongings and about filled a 30 cubic yard dumpster all by hand.  I dropped weight like crazy then.  But during the winter I struggle to break even despite the fact that I get as much activity as I can (all day hunting trips on my feet carrying gear at least once a week, etc.).  Still waiting to see how and if things change as an ER.

What kind of regular weight training are you doing?    It sounds like you're just a 3 day split away from maintaining your desired weight.    I also have a lifestyle that keeps me on my feet, and I've gone as far as training for a marathon (luckily I came to my senses and stopped running races beyond half marathons, so I'm still injury free).   

Still, even with 5 days a week of cardio I never lost inches on my stomach until I started really focusing on free weights.    Recently I've even dropped the amount I lift in order to increase the sets and reps, it's had a dramatic difference on my physical makeup.

I think the Four Hour Body is probably the best book you can read for advice on how to maintain your desired physical appearance.

totoro

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2014, 09:52:24 AM »
Perhaps many are genetically hard-wired to be obese in the presence of a high-energy (high fat) and sedentary lifestyle?

Research suggests that, as our bodies gain weight based on genetic predispositions, it is likely that our brains become less receptive to the “stop eating” hormones that our fat cells secrete (like leptin).

My best friend is obese.  I've watched her struggle with weight for 30 years.  I'm not sure that it is all explained by lack of will power and too many calories.

She is very strong and physically active.  She eats poorly sometimes.  She is on the waitlist for gastric bypass because no diet has ever worked for long for her - she, like 95% of all obese people, always gains the weight back, as does her brother.

Now 95% is a big number and my take is that genetics regulate body metabolism to a significant degree which makes it pretty tough to keep the weight off - your body is working against you in this and increases your appetite and decreases you ability to sense fullness. 

Also some people have more fat cells naturally.  And fat cells themselves multiply during two growth periods: early childhood and adolescence. Overeating during those times increases the number of fat cells.

Dr Leibel's, an obesity researcher, did studies of the formerly obese (who are keeping weight off) and he observed that they are hungry all the time, are cold and other symptoms of the biochemical system kicking in to force a weight gain. When they exercise, these individuals burn 15 to 20 percent fewer calories than a normally thin person.

http://www.drsharma.ca/obesitywhy-is-it-so-hard-to-maintain-a-reduced-body-weight.html

http://healthread.net/why-dieters-regain-leibel.htm

Source: Weight control and diet | University of Maryland Medical Center http://umm.edu/health/medical/reports/articles/weight-control-and-diet#ixzz33mPghnRr
University of Maryland Medical Center
Follow us: @UMMC on Twitter | MedCenter on Facebook

http://centennial.rucares.org/index.php?page=Weight_Loss

Ottawa

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2014, 10:07:58 AM »
Perhaps many are genetically hard-wired to be obese in the presence of a high-energy (high fat) and sedentary lifestyle?

Research suggests that, as our bodies gain weight based on genetic predispositions, it is likely that our brains become less receptive to the “stop eating” hormones that our fat cells secrete (like leptin).

My best friend is obese.  I've watched her struggle with weight for 30 years.  I'm not sure that it is all explained by lack of will power and too many calories.

She is very strong and physically active.  She eats poorly sometimes.  She is on the waitlist for gastric bypass because no diet has ever worked for long for her - she, like 95% of all obese people, always gains the weight back, as does her brother.

Now 95% is a big number and my take is that genetics regulate body metabolism to a significant degree which makes it pretty tough to keep the weight off - your body is working against you in this and increases your appetite and decreases you ability to sense fullness. 

Also some people have more fat cells naturally.  And fat cells themselves multiply during two growth periods: early childhood and adolescence. Overeating during those times increases the number of fat cells.

Dr Leibel's, an obesity researcher, did studies of the formerly obese (who are keeping weight off) and he observed that they are hungry all the time, are cold and other symptoms of the biochemical system kicking in to force a weight gain. When they exercise, these individuals burn 15 to 20 percent fewer calories than a normally thin person.

http://www.drsharma.ca/obesitywhy-is-it-so-hard-to-maintain-a-reduced-body-weight.html

http://healthread.net/why-dieters-regain-leibel.htm

Source: Weight control and diet | University of Maryland Medical Center http://umm.edu/health/medical/reports/articles/weight-control-and-diet#ixzz33mPghnRr
University of Maryland Medical Center
Follow us: @UMMC on Twitter | MedCenter on Facebook

http://centennial.rucares.org/index.php?page=Weight_Loss

Thanks!  All good information.  To be sure, it is a very complex combination of physiology and psychology.  I am always surprised at how hard people fight with being overweight/obese.  It reminds me of folks trying to quit smoking, drinking or drugs.   

Not surprisingly the cause and solution has remained elusive.  Some people can exercise brute force willpower over all of the above vices, but they are rare.  Perhaps further studying folks' (habits, fMRI, chemistry etc) who can quite cold turkey and never look back would be an interesting group to study vs people who have trouble vs people who never had trouble. 


totoro

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2014, 10:13:24 AM »
I guess the difference is that you can't quit eating.

There are a number of studies on the biochemistry of the naturally thin, the obese, and those who have lost weight.  There has also been a lot of research on obesity with mice and biological causes (gene mutations etc.)

http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/obesity-epigenetics-and-gene-regulation-927

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2011/197636/

CommonCents

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2014, 10:36:37 AM »
1a) When people talk about the "health costs of being fat" for some reason the "health costs of being athletic" don't come up. Maybe I don't want "my insurance dollars" paying for a marathon runner's joint replacements or an avid skiier's broken skull. Actually, I don't feel that way because insurance is a way of pooling risk.

I imagine it's because those costs are quite minor, compared to the costs of obesity.  First, because it's a very small pool of people who are that active, and second, because those people also receive protective health benefits from their physical activity such as lower risk of heart disease.  Obesity has actually overtaken smoking in terms of health care costs for society, in part because smokers tend to have a markedly shorter life span than non-smokers.  We also tend to regulate activities we as a society feel are too dangerous, such as by limiting locations people can do things like base jump.  But perhaps I'm wrong about the comparable costs of extreme athletes.  Do you have statistics to back up a claim that there is a problem and this is a significant cost to society?

greaper007

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2014, 10:43:00 AM »
1a) When people talk about the "health costs of being fat" for some reason the "health costs of being athletic" don't come up. Maybe I don't want "my insurance dollars" paying for a marathon runner's joint replacements or an avid skiier's broken skull. Actually, I don't feel that way because insurance is a way of pooling risk.

I imagine it's because those costs are quite minor, compared to the costs of obesity.  First, because it's a very small pool of people who are that active, and second, because those people also receive protective health benefits from their physical activity such as lower risk of heart disease.  Obesity has actually overtaken smoking in terms of health care costs for society, in part because smokers tend to have a markedly shorter life span than non-smokers.  We also tend to regulate activities we as a society feel are too dangerous, such as by limiting locations people can do things like base jump.  But perhaps I'm wrong about the comparable costs of extreme athletes.  Do you have statistics to back up a claim that there is a problem and this is a significant cost to society?

In terms of lifetime care costs, healthy non-smokers tend to cost the most simply because they live longer.   Smokers and fat people live shorter lives and die from things that are cheaper to care for.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/22/alcohol-obesity-and-smoking-do-not-cost-health-care-systems-money/

I've seen better articles on this issue, but here's all I could come up with on a quick inspection.

CommonCents

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2014, 10:56:12 AM »
1a) When people talk about the "health costs of being fat" for some reason the "health costs of being athletic" don't come up. Maybe I don't want "my insurance dollars" paying for a marathon runner's joint replacements or an avid skiier's broken skull. Actually, I don't feel that way because insurance is a way of pooling risk.

I imagine it's because those costs are quite minor, compared to the costs of obesity.  First, because it's a very small pool of people who are that active, and second, because those people also receive protective health benefits from their physical activity such as lower risk of heart disease.  Obesity has actually overtaken smoking in terms of health care costs for society, in part because smokers tend to have a markedly shorter life span than non-smokers.  We also tend to regulate activities we as a society feel are too dangerous, such as by limiting locations people can do things like base jump.  But perhaps I'm wrong about the comparable costs of extreme athletes.  Do you have statistics to back up a claim that there is a problem and this is a significant cost to society?

In terms of lifetime care costs, healthy non-smokers tend to cost the most simply because they live longer.   Smokers and fat people live shorter lives and die from things that are cheaper to care for.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/22/alcohol-obesity-and-smoking-do-not-cost-health-care-systems-money/

I've seen better articles on this issue, but here's all I could come up with on a quick inspection.

Interesting, because the articles I've read have cited obesity as one of the rising/highest cost drivers.  Here's one by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation: http://www.rwjf.org/en/research-publications/find-rwjf-research/2011/07/what-are-the-biggest-drivers-of-cost-in-u-s--health-care-.html  Your article loooks to be Euro focused, perhaps that explains the difference?  I'm talking US.  I'd also say that just looking at lifetime costs for a 20 yo is a bit simplistic and probably misses a lot of nuances (such as whether the person is active/healthy enough to contribute to society for a 30-40 year working career and thus "costs" society less in the long run).  Here's also an article (by Forbes, as well) that refutes the assertion that the obese live significantly shorter lives (apparently it is shorter, just not by much): http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/04/30/obesity-now-costs-americans-more-in-healthcare-costs-than-smoking/

Bakari

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2014, 11:20:14 AM »
Perhaps many are genetically hard-wired to be obese in the presence of a high-energy (high fat) and sedentary lifestyle?

Research suggests that, as our bodies gain weight based on genetic predispositions, it is likely that our brains become less receptive to the “stop eating” hormones that our fat cells secrete (like leptin).
...

Now 95% is a big number and my take is that genetics regulate body metabolism to a significant degree which makes it pretty tough to keep the weight off - your body is working against you in this and increases your appetite and decreases you ability to sense fullness. 

Also some people have more fat cells naturally.  And fat cells themselves multiply during two growth periods: early childhood and adolescence. Overeating during those times increases the number of fat cells.

Amazing the thread got this far before the word "appetite" came up!
That's pretty much the entire issue, right there.

Several people mention links between emotion, stress, and eating; hunger is a physical feeling meaning the body needs nutrition.  Appetite is an emotional desire for food - you can just have finished a meal and not be hungry, but dessert looks and smells good, and you want it - you still have appetite.

Why do people take in more calories than they use!?

Appetite. 
I think the root cause is too much sugar  in the diet.   

Sugar does not satiate appetite or lead to feeling full, so your body doesn't realize it has had enough calories already.  That's why sugar is such a big part of it.  HF corn syrup is no worse than table sugar or honey, but it is cheap, and so food manufactures put it in EVERYTHING, and so people consume more calories, since the sugar adds calories but people eat the same amount of total food.



I've never met an obese person who exercises an hour a day and eats at least 3-4 servings of vegetables per day.
I have.  There are people with actual medical issues, tyroid, etc.


Those conditions don't create fat out of thin air.  The person still has to consume more calories than they expend.  The difference is, thyroid hormones help regulate the feeling of hunger.  Eating is a basic need, like breathing and sleep and sex and excreting wastes.  Its nearly impossible to simply will power one's way out of constant hunger.  If a medical condition causes a feeling of constant false hunger, a person will end up overweight.  That in no way invalidates the basic calories in - calories out equation (though it does contradict the moralizing aspect of willpower)

Which is the exact reason why weaning off of engineered food is so key.  Food should be grown on a farm, not designed in a laboratory.  Yes, it is cheap and easy, and there are food deserts, etc., but on any given day  at any given grocery store with huge amounts of good, fresh food, people are piling chips, soda and frozen pizzas into their carts, and lining up around the block to eat at Chik-Fil-A.

and
I honestly think it's because most people don't prepare their own food on a regular basis anymore.



I know a whole lot of people who: eat only food they or friends prepared, and/or eat mostly raw food, and/or are vegan, and/or eat "paleo" diets, who are overweight, and/or have other health problems, and/or are extremely unfit.

I also know quite a few who eat mostly processed foods, stuff out of boxes or cans, and eat out not infrequently (myself being one of them), who are of healthy bodyfat percentage, have good strength-to-weight ratios, can (literally) run circles around their "being healthy is about eating natural" friends, and consistently come back from doctor visits with normal to excellent marks in blood pressure, cholesterol, etc.
I think "Food should be grown on a farm, not designed in a laboratory" is a dangerous oversimplification."  Why stop at agriculture?  Its as "unnatural" as any other technology humans have designed.  Nothing grown on a farm was designed by evolution, 100% of commercial crops have been bred by humans for hundreds if not thousands of years.  If you want to eat a genuine "paleo" diet, it should consist primarily of bugs and acorns.  But then, a lot of ancient cultures had sever nutritional deficits, so you probably shouldn't actually do that.


It's just plain really, really easy to consume too many calories in the developed world where food is so inexpensive, plentiful, and satisfying.


The problem is more that it isn't satisfying.  Which in the case of some foods, (snack foods and beverages in particular) it is deliberate.
Supposedly coke originally put so much sugar in he formula to cover up the taste of all the salt.  They added the salt in order to make you thirsty, so that you would buy more coke.
I don't have a reliable source for this claim...


I really think that the noble message "accept who you are" is a great one.  However I believe that "accept who you are (even if it is unhealthy)" is reckless.


Well said


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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2014, 11:28:08 AM »
I should have said gratifying rather than satisfying, as I was thinking in emotionally satisfying terms (Yum, this is so effing delicious!!!). Good tweak Bakari.

CommonCents

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2014, 11:39:07 AM »
[/font]
I've never met an obese person who exercises an hour a day and eats at least 3-4 servings of vegetables per day.
I have.  There are people with actual medical issues, tyroid, etc.


Those conditions don't create fat out of thin air.  The person still has to consume more calories than they expend.  The difference is, thyroid hormones help regulate the feeling of hunger.  Eating is a basic need, like breathing and sleep and sex and excreting wastes.  Its nearly impossible to simply will power one's way out of constant hunger.  If a medical condition causes a feeling of constant false hunger, a person will end up overweight.  That in no way invalidates the basic calories in - calories out equation (though it does contradict the moralizing aspect of willpower)

Actually, I elaborated on the issues of one of those persons later in the thread.  That person has three medical issues that combine together to create a situation where she was actually not eating more calories.  (I only recall 2 of the 3: gluten allergy, thyroid).  It took years to be properly diagnosed because her doctors thought she was lying about what she ate, despite careful documentation.  Only her mother believed and supported her, which has to be very frustating.  She is now reasonably thin (head turning size w/o reaching model-scary thin).  It's an unsual situation (I believe they wanted to write up her case), but I wanted to emphasize that while we are talking generally and statistically, we shouldn't forget there are individual conditions and situations as well.

Jamesqf

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2014, 11:56:48 AM »
Perhaps some of the overweight is triggered by a lack of exposure to temperature variation?  There seems to be some support for this:
The same effect occurred in preliminary studies of people, where the browning—which creates a tissue known as beige fat—helps generate heat and burn calories. But cold is “the only stimulus we know that can increase beige fat mass or brown fat mass,”
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 11:59:02 AM by Jamesqf »

Noodle

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2014, 12:45:51 PM »
Oh, gosh, there are just so many complicating factors. Outside of the physiology of diet/exercise/body, the social and psychological factors and unconscious habits make eating very complicated. Several I can think of: the loss of "everyday" movement as we move to more closely supervised childhood and a car culture. I live in a very car-oriented city, and when I recently went back to my old hometown, where I used public transit, I was shocked by how many more steps I was taking per day. We are talking just walking a couple of blocks to a bus stop or to a coffee shop at breaktime, not hiking miles to transit. Also, the change in serving sizes, without accompanying changes of culture. I collect vintage cookbooks, and it's amazing, looking at the photographs and recipes, how small portions used to be. Third, the fact that restaurants are now simultaneously an everyday experience and a "special occasion" for people...ie, they eat out far more often than people did a generation ago, but those meals are still treated like a special occasion in terms of ordering (cocktails, appetizers, desserts when people would not eat like that at home).

And then the fact that it really does not take many calories to cause gradual weight gain. It was once pointed out to me that 100 calories extra a day will end up in a pound weight gain in just over a month, or 10 pounds in a year. 100 calories is 10 almonds, or one small granola bar, or a banana. That is some very granular management required to keep that under control. You can develop habits to streamline (for instance, you may find that certain foods and exercise help you maintain) but if you change your habits, you have to redo everything (often at a time when you have a lot on your plate because of whatever caused said change. (Why yes, I am speaking from experience.)

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2014, 12:47:40 PM »
Perhaps some of the overweight is triggered by a lack of exposure to temperature variation?  There seems to be some support for this:
The same effect occurred in preliminary studies of people, where the browning—which creates a tissue known as beige fat—helps generate heat and burn calories. But cold is “the only stimulus we know that can increase beige fat mass or brown fat mass,”

Nah, we've got plenty of fatties north of your borders.  Many northern communities have huge problems with obesity . . .

Ottawa

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2014, 12:56:04 PM »
And then the fact that it really does not take many calories to cause gradual weight gain. It was once pointed out to me that 100 calories extra a day will end up in a pound weight gain in just over a month, or 10 pounds in a year. 100 calories is 10 almonds, or one small granola bar, or a banana. That is some very granular management required to keep that under control. You can develop habits to streamline (for instance, you may find that certain foods and exercise help you maintain) but if you change your habits, you have to redo everything (often at a time when you have a lot on your plate because of whatever caused said change. (Why yes, I am speaking from experience.)

This is some interesting stuff and I think what happens to people.  Weight gain creeps up on them so slowly that they adapt without even noticing.  So, perhaps the internal feedback system has become a little out of calibration.  That is, the brain doesn't say "that's good mouth"...rather "one more bite extra at each meal (3 calories)". 

But, again.  Why?  Our evolutionary physiology was adapted to our environment...which way back was likely a feast or famine situation.  SO, it paid to be able to eat more and store it as fat.  Thus, when you couldn't find food for 3 weeks...you could keep up your strength by consuming your own fat supply...to glycogen.  The problem now is...there is no famine in most countries...and so the body hasn't adapted to shut off the inate "feast mode".  Perhaps, a single gene may be responsible for throttling the storage sytem?  I don't know...just typing out loud!

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2014, 12:59:40 PM »
Also now we are learning fun facts like not all calories are equal (eg if you eat 150 calories worth of almonds your body is not really digesting all 150 calories), which is a complete turn around from all those 100 cal snackwell diet snacks (where for sure you are getting 100 calories worth of food, and not feeling satiated at all as a result).

I'm really impressed with how considered and polite his thread has been.

horsepoor

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2014, 01:21:27 PM »

[/font]
Which is the exact reason why weaning off of engineered food is so key.  Food should be grown on a farm, not designed in a laboratory.  Yes, it is cheap and easy, and there are food deserts, etc., but on any given day  at any given grocery store with huge amounts of good, fresh food, people are piling chips, soda and frozen pizzas into their carts, and lining up around the block to eat at Chik-Fil-A.

and
I honestly think it's because most people don't prepare their own food on a regular basis anymore.



I know a whole lot of people who: eat only food they or friends prepared, and/or eat mostly raw food, and/or are vegan, and/or eat "paleo" diets, who are overweight, and/or have other health problems, and/or are extremely unfit.

I also know quite a few who eat mostly processed foods, stuff out of boxes or cans, and eat out not infrequently (myself being one of them), who are of healthy bodyfat percentage, have good strength-to-weight ratios, can (literally) run circles around their "being healthy is about eating natural" friends, and consistently come back from doctor visits with normal to excellent marks in blood pressure, cholesterol, etc.
I think "Food should be grown on a farm, not designed in a laboratory" is a dangerous oversimplification."  Why stop at agriculture?  Its as "unnatural" as any other technology humans have designed.  Nothing grown on a farm was designed by evolution, 100% of commercial crops have been bred by humans for hundreds if not thousands of years.  If you want to eat a genuine "paleo" diet, it should consist primarily of bugs and acorns.  But then, a lot of ancient cultures had sever nutritional deficits, so you probably shouldn't actually do that.

And yet you were just going on about appetite.  The whole point of avoiding engineered foods is that they're engineered to stimulate excess appetite/excess consumption.  Of COURSE Doritos are designed to make you want more and more of them.  Don't know what to tell you about your overweight whole-food eating friends, but I got fat eating non-fat Yoplait and Lean Cuisines.  I got to a healthy weight eating tons of veggies, meat and added fats.  Never hungry and the weight stays in proportion to how well I stick to the whole foods/low sugar thing.  A paleo diet can be fattening if enough vegetables aren't consumed, and it is easy enough to claim a paleo diet and still eat lots of treats and bacon, and not enough veggies.  Also, exercise is still part of the equation.  Very hard to overeat calories when eating 8-10 servings a day of low-carb veggies.  For whatever it's worth, I am not convinced that vegan is a great choice, though it does seem to work for some.  Sugar and fries are also both vegan, so it's possible to be vegan and eat a lot of low-nutrition junk.  It seems more worthwhile to get less hung up on the technicalities of eating according to some defined label, and focusing more on the nutrient-dense, real food part of the equation.

I also think that many people across the weight spectrum are undernourished as a result of eating processed foods and basing their diet on starches.  The body isn't going to function optimally, and will always be screaming out for nutrition even in the presence of an excess of calories.  I'd be interested to know the ages of the people who seem to do so well on crap diets, because my observation is that it catches up with most people at different ages.  Staying active can be a counter-balance to poor dietary choices since it helps maintain insulin sensitivity, but that can burn out after a while, especially if the micronutrient malnutrition is coming into play from a crap diet.

The argument that a diet isn't really paleo unless it's foraged is true, but rather disingenuous.  However, I think we both know that it's not possible in the modern world for much of anyone to eat a totally or mostly foraged diet.  However, paleo people will tell you to go as much with wild caught stuff, grass-fed beef, and if possible, fruits and veggies that are closer to their wild analogs (e.g. not fruits that have been bred for max sugar).  It's clear that these foods generally have higher nutritional content and make the machine run more smoothly.  In the end it's important for everyone to find what works for them, but I KNOW from my own n= 1 experiment that I function much better, and maintain a healthy weight easily, buy staying away from packaged crap and focusing on eating veggies and quality protein and fat.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 01:25:06 PM by horsepoor »

galliver

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2014, 01:40:53 PM »
I've never met an obese person who exercises an hour a day and eats at least 3-4 servings of vegetables per day.
I have.  There are people with actual medical issues, tyroid, etc.


Those conditions don't create fat out of thin air.  The person still has to consume more calories than they expend.  The difference is, thyroid hormones help regulate the feeling of hunger.  Eating is a basic need, like breathing and sleep and sex and excreting wastes.  Its nearly impossible to simply will power one's way out of constant hunger.  If a medical condition causes a feeling of constant false hunger, a person will end up overweight.  That in no way invalidates the basic calories in - calories out equation (though it does contradict the moralizing aspect of willpower)

I just really want to +1 or stress this or whatnot. Calories in and calories out don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in your body's biochemistry...and your body FIGHTS the changes you're trying to make.

I still hold to my belief that two people can eat and act exactly the same and have different responses/bodies. I'm sorry this seems impossible for people whose bodies have a more straightforward cause->effect response to understand. My weight didn't/doesn't change when I start (or stop) going to the gym, riding my bike to work, or eating salads for lunch instead of sandwiches or pasta or whatnot. My shape/fitness, mood, well-being, strength, endurance, energy, etc change. And I think those are worthwhile causes in their own right. I've stopped worrying about the number on the scale or on my pants.

I live in a very car-oriented city, and when I recently went back to my old hometown, where I used public transit, I was shocked by how many more steps I was taking per day. We are talking just walking a couple of blocks to a bus stop or to a coffee shop at breaktime, not hiking miles to transit.

I went back to Russia to visit family 3 years ago and was resigned to gaining 5ish lbs while I was there eating all the different and tasty food that wasn't available here in the US. Also the whole feeding-as-an-expression-of-love thing while visiting family. To my surprise I actually lost those 5lbs. While I use public transit in both places, over there lots of my leisure was spent walking around seeing things, or helping grandma with yardwork, or geocaching with my cousins. Active lifestyle is important. But I'd argue most of us can't do this every day.

Ottawa

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2014, 01:53:23 PM »
I still hold to my belief that two people can eat and act exactly the same and have different responses/bodies. I'm sorry this seems impossible for people whose bodies have a more straightforward cause->effect response to understand. My weight didn't/doesn't change when I start (or stop) going to the gym, riding my bike to work, or eating salads for lunch instead of sandwiches or pasta or whatnot. My shape/fitness, mood, well-being, strength, endurance, energy, etc change. And I think those are worthwhile causes in their own right. I've stopped worrying about the number on the scale or on my pants.

The body is an energy conversion machine.  Very simple.  You have a burn rate that changes with activity.  You cannot indefinitely burn without replacing or you will die.  The body doesn't harvest energy from the air we breathe.  But, I know you know this. 

I think a better explanation for your observations is that...your weight may not change because:

1) When you increase exercise, your caloric intake increases to compensate.  Thus the net change is zero.  This can easily be tested by NOT increasing or changing your diet even though you take up regular exercise.  or;

2) You are replacing fat with muscle and it happens that the weight doesn't change.  This can easily be tested with a body fat test on day 1 and again on day 30..etc.

Active lifestyle is important. But I'd argue most of us can't do this every day.

Active lifestyle is extremely important.  I would argue that saying "you can't do it every day" is an excuse.  There is absolutely no reason you can't engineer your lifestyle to incorporate activity.  I certainly do.

totoro

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2014, 01:53:33 PM »
"There's a disturbing truth that is emerging from the science of obesity. After years of study, it's becoming apparent that it's nearly impossible to permanently lose weight."

https://ca.shine.yahoo.com/obesity-research-confirms-long-term-weight-loss-almost-023429799.html

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #75 on: June 05, 2014, 01:58:22 PM »
Perhaps many are genetically hard-wired to be obese in the presence of a high-energy (high fat) and sedentary lifestyle?

Research suggests that, as our bodies gain weight based on genetic predispositions, it is likely that our brains become less receptive to the “stop eating” hormones that our fat cells secrete (like leptin).
...

Now 95% is a big number and my take is that genetics regulate body metabolism to a significant degree which makes it pretty tough to keep the weight off - your body is working against you in this and increases your appetite and decreases you ability to sense fullness. 

Also some people have more fat cells naturally.  And fat cells themselves multiply during two growth periods: early childhood and adolescence. Overeating during those times increases the number of fat cells.

Amazing the thread got this far before the word "appetite" came up!
That's pretty much the entire issue, right there.

Several people mention links between emotion, stress, and eating; hunger is a physical feeling meaning the body needs nutrition.  Appetite is an emotional desire for food - you can just have finished a meal and not be hungry, but dessert looks and smells good, and you want it - you still have appetite.


Of course there are connections between the two that make it not so simple.  "hunger is a physical feeling meaning the body needs nutrition," but as the part you quote says, one person's brain may be sending them leptin when they've had enough food and another's may not so keep experiencing hunger.  And I know you pretty much say the same thing later in your post.

Or say one person gets hypoglycemia, even if they eat the same food as another person.  The hypoglycemic person has a different experience of hunger which includes faintness and shakiness so this obviously creates a different emotional response.  They are going to feel more distress about being hungry than a regular person.

And emotions are processed by physical structures in our brain which may be wired differently from person to person.  People who grow up in the same household can have different feelings about food based on which genetics they got. 
It always gives me pause when people talk about diet being a matter of will power.  If I ever needed to diet, it's easy for me to go without food without being distressed about it because I don't really feel hunger the way other people seem to.  My stomach hurts and I know intellectually from past experience that the way to get this pain to stop is to eat something and if I don't do something about it I'll feel weak and lose energy, but that's about it.  Other people talk about appetite in terms of an instinctive desire to put food in their mouths and imagining the sensual pleasure of what it will feel like.  Again, to me, it's more like having to remember to gas up my car.  So even if calories in = calories out were all there were to it, controlling the calories in is much less of an accomplishment for me than it is for other people based on my biology.

I still hold to my belief that two people can eat and act exactly the same and have different responses/bodies. I'm sorry this seems impossible for people whose bodies have a more straightforward cause->effect response to understand. My weight didn't/doesn't change when I start (or stop) going to the gym, riding my bike to work, or eating salads for lunch instead of sandwiches or pasta or whatnot. My shape/fitness, mood, well-being, strength, endurance, energy, etc change. And I think those are worthwhile causes in their own right. I've stopped worrying about the number on the scale or on my pants.

The calories in = calories out argument can be true without necessarily meaning calories = mass and its proponents don't seem to get this.  Think of the thin people who are unhealthy time bombs because the extra calories turned into plaque in their arteries rather than pounds on their hips.  I'm probably one of these; no matter what my lifestyle is my weight doesn't change, but no one ever gives me shit about it :)

Annamal

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #76 on: June 05, 2014, 02:08:54 PM »
My sister in law was previously employed as part of a team targeting obesity, the bulk of her job as I understand it was in removing the barriers to biking/walking (helping plan bike routes, helping organisations make it easier for their staff to commute by bike or walk etc).

I think as individuals  there's always stuff we can affect in our own lives but as a society, removing the barriers to getting around under your own power is important. Designing suburbs and cities around people walking and biking is complicated but worthwhile. What you want is a mindset that suggests that walking or biking is just how you get around.

If something is a matter of willpower or great effort then individuals might keep doing but the group as a whole will not and it is the group as a whole that you will eventually have to pay for one way or another.

horsepoor

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #77 on: June 05, 2014, 02:12:43 PM »
This is an interesting registry to help study people who have maintained a significant weight loss.  http://www.nwcr.ws/research/

Quote
We have also started to learn about how the weight loss was accomplished: 45% of registry participants lost the weight on their own and the other 55% lost weight with the help of some type of program.
98% of Registry participants report that they modified their food intake in some way to lose weight.
94% increased their physical activity, with the most frequently reported form of activity being walking.
There is variety in how NWCR members keep the weight off. Most report continuing to maintain a low calorie, low fat diet and doing high levels of activity.
 
78% eat breakfast every day.
75% weigh themselves at least once a week.
62% watch less than 10 hours of TV per week.
90% exercise, on average, about 1 hour per day.

That is a lot of exercise, depending upon how exercise is defined.  I think that highlights the amount of commitment to maintaining reduced weight, which can be harder than maintaining a normal weight without a prior history of overweight/obesity.

totoro

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #78 on: June 05, 2014, 02:15:34 PM »
I also am in the category of normal weight pretty much whatever I do.  Exercise, no exercise - eat less, eat more.  I will lose or gain a few pounds, but it is never huge.  That might change later in life, not sure. 

My DH has to watch what he eats more and is more prone to binge eating - in the evening only.  I never binge eat because I get full and stop.  I lose interest in food at that point, it doesn't seem tasty anymore.

Anyway, my best friend has struggled with weight all her life and is now obese.  After watching her with this for 30 years I am more than convinced that there is a genetic and biochemical basis contributing here that means that it is harder for her reach and maintain normal weight. 

My guess is that one day we will find a solution that involves how hunger hormones regulate appetite.

galliver

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2014, 02:19:53 PM »
And emotions are processed by physical structures in our brain which may be wired differently from person to person.  People who grow up in the same household can have different feelings about food based on which genetics they got. 
It always gives me pause when people talk about diet being a matter of will power.  If I ever needed to diet, it's easy for me to go without food without being distressed about it because I don't really feel hunger the way other people seem to.  My stomach hurts and I know intellectually from past experience that the way to get this pain to stop is to eat something and if I don't do something about it I'll feel weak and lose energy, but that's about it.  Other people talk about appetite in terms of an instinctive desire to put food in their mouths and imagining the sensual pleasure of what it will feel like.  Again, to me, it's more like having to remember to gas up my car.  So even if calories in = calories out were all there were to it, controlling the calories in is much less of an accomplishment for me than it is for other people based on my biology.

I still hold to my belief that two people can eat and act exactly the same and have different responses/bodies. I'm sorry this seems impossible for people whose bodies have a more straightforward cause->effect response to understand. My weight didn't/doesn't change when I start (or stop) going to the gym, riding my bike to work, or eating salads for lunch instead of sandwiches or pasta or whatnot. My shape/fitness, mood, well-being, strength, endurance, energy, etc change. And I think those are worthwhile causes in their own right. I've stopped worrying about the number on the scale or on my pants.

The calories in = calories out argument can be true without necessarily meaning calories = mass and its proponents don't seem to get this.  Think of the thin people who are unhealthy time bombs because the extra calories turned into plaque in their arteries rather than pounds on their hips.  I'm probably one of these; no matter what my lifestyle is my weight doesn't change, but no one ever gives me shit about it :)

Just want to give you props for valuing others' experiences.

The Time article I shared early on (http://time.com/14407/the-hidden-dangers-of-skinny-fat/) puts the number of normal/thin people (by BMI) with cardiovascular risk factors ("skinny fat") at around 25%. The obesity rate is about 35%.  Overweight is another 24% according to http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm. So...total 84%. Basically the USA is doomed. Good game everybody.

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2014, 02:20:08 PM »
Sure, I'll play.

Why are so many people overweight and obese? Because of a massive, unintended government sponsored experiment on the US population to manipulate macronutrient consumption, in combination with government subsidies that make simple sugars and starches artificially inexpensive in the marketplace.

It turns out, when most people eat less natural fat and protein, and substitute refined simple sugars and refined carbs, they feel less satiated, their bodies hormonal regulation of hunger becomes dysregulated, they consume more calories, the get fatter and sicker, and they cost the tax paying public a lot of extra money in healthcare.

So, in short, the American tax payer subsidizes the incentives that make them fat and sick, then subsidizes for the supplemental healthcare needs that are a consequence of the first subsidy. I can't imagine a better definition of being had both coming and going.

The "fat people are lazy" argument makes me sick. Imagine any other disease of hormonal imbalance skyrocketing over two generations and being written off as a personal laziness issue.

Jamesqf

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #81 on: June 05, 2014, 03:52:28 PM »
Perhaps some of the overweight is triggered by a lack of exposure to temperature variation?  There seems to be some support for this:
The same effect occurred in preliminary studies of people, where the browning—which creates a tissue known as beige fat—helps generate heat and burn calories. But cold is “the only stimulus we know that can increase beige fat mass or brown fat mass,”

Nah, we've got plenty of fatties north of your borders.  Many northern communities have huge problems with obesity . . .

But how many of them spend significant amounts of time outdoors, adapting themselves to temperature changes?  How many of those northern communities have completely climate-controlled environments, like this
In 2002, a profile of Downtown Winnipeg published by the City of Winnipeg described the Walkway as a system of 14 skyways and 7 tunnels connecting 38 buildings and allowing for a maximum protected walk of 2 km. It went on to state that the system provides year-round climate-controlled access to over 170,000 m2 of space, including over 200 shops and businesses, 10 office complexes, 60 restaurants and snack bars, 700 apartment units, 2 hotels, 11 financial centres, and the Winnipeg Millennium Library, bringing together 21,000 employees.[1] The walkway system has since expanded.[2]

Then there are things like remote car starters, electrically heated snowmobile suits, and all the other things which ensure that people in northern climes need not actually intereact with weather.

GuitarStv

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #82 on: June 05, 2014, 05:17:58 PM »
The small northern community I grew up in didn't have much of that.  3/4 of the houses were heated by wood stoves (cheaper than gas or oil) and most of the houses on the native side were little better than portables.  Few of the cars were newer than 10 years old.  The problem is, buying milk was about 8$ a gallon, buying coke about 3$.  Fresh vegetables were expensive as hell, crackers and cookies very cheap.

Jamesqf

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #83 on: June 05, 2014, 11:38:19 PM »
The "fat people are lazy" argument makes me sick. Imagine any other disease of hormonal imbalance skyrocketing over two generations and being written off as a personal laziness issue.

First, how is it a disease when most people can fairly freely choose what to eat?  Second, if they choose to eat refined 'convenience' foods, instead of the somewhat harder (but still possible with reasonable effort) to obtain "natural fat and protein" foods, is that not basically laziness?

Finally, what of all the active people who eat mostly those refined sugars & carbs, yet aren't obese?  And conversely, the ones who eat 'natural' diets and yet are obese?

The small northern community I grew up in didn't have much of that.  3/4 of the houses were heated by wood stoves (cheaper than gas or oil) and most of the houses on the native side were little better than portables.  Few of the cars were newer than 10 years old.  The problem is, buying milk was about 8$ a gallon, buying coke about 3$.  Fresh vegetables were expensive as hell, crackers and cookies very cheap.

OK, but still, how many of the people in that town spent much time in the outdoors?  A house heated by a woodstove (as mine partially is) is just as much a temperature-controlled environment as one heated by the latest model heat pump.  Unless of course you're the one who cuts the wood, and splits it by hand :-)

If your community was much like where I grew up (maybe a hundred miles south of the Canadian border), garden vegetables cost little, and could be canned or frozen for winter, while meat & fish as well as some fruits, berries, and nuts were available basically for the effort of collecting them.  Milk came from the dairy farm across the creek. while many people kept chickens...
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 11:44:47 PM by Jamesqf »

GuitarStv

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #84 on: June 06, 2014, 06:04:12 AM »
Most of the people in town bought wood by the cord from the local lumber yard and split it themselves.  Hunting was one of the primary leisure activities, along with snowmobiling and ice fishing.  You really couldn't live a sedentary live very easily there, but there were plenty of fat people . . . largely due to diet I suspect.  Most food had to be trucked in great distances, and processed stuff seemed to survive the trip easier/was cheaper to buy in the stores.

It sounds like you lived in quite a southern community.  :P  We were about 600 miles (1000 km) north of Toronto.  Our growing season for garden vegetables was mid-june (when the snow had finished melting) to mid-september (when the frost would return) . . . so few garden vegetables really worked all that well.  There were no farms within a hundred miles with livestock.  There were no nut bearing trees that I was aware of.  I don't think that anyone kept chickens . . . it would be pretty expensive trying to heat the coops in January, as most of the month went down to 40 below.  Fishing wasn't bad though, lots of northern pike and perch.  Plenty of partridge and moose in the woods as well, but it was much harder getting them than picking up some chips at the supermarket in town.

Bakari

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #85 on: June 06, 2014, 07:56:20 AM »

I still hold to my belief that two people can eat and act exactly the same and have different responses/bodies.

Unless they were both fed in a lab, there is no way to reliably test that theory.
There was a documentary on BBC about weight loss.  Two best friends, one fat, one skinny - they both agreed that the skinny one consistently ate much more, more often, more at each meal, and less healthy food.  They both agreed she must just have higher metabolism.  Then the doctors tested each one's metabolism.  Turns out the heavier one had significantly higher metabolism.  They tracked calorie intake, and found the the larger woman ate more than the smaller one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSm1dWjMGeM


Quote
My weight didn't/doesn't change when I start (or stop) going to the gym, riding my bike to work, or eating salads for lunch instead of sandwiches or pasta or whatnot. My shape/fitness, mood, well-being, strength, endurance, energy, etc change.
I read a good (if oversimplified) quote on a weightlifting website a couple days ago:

"your bodyweight is determined by diet (how much you eat). The proportion of fat and muscle you have is determined by your training."-kethnaab

Going to the gym wouldn't change weight noticeably - it takes 2-3 hours of high intensity aerobics to burn the calories from a single 1000 calorie meal.  It would take 5-6 hours of weight lifting.  Training without dieting won't change your total mass, but it can replace fat with muscle - which you indicate when you say your "shape" responds to training.

Unless you are tracking every calorie in every meal (including using a scale to figure out the calories in unlabeled food), you are almost definitely compensating for less calories at lunch with more at breakfast, dinner, or snacks.  The body does that automatically, subconsciously.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 10:55:29 AM by Bakari »

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #86 on: June 06, 2014, 10:31:16 AM »
There must be serious societal factors behind the phenomena, particularly in US but to an extent also in other developed countries. Otherwise how do you explain that poor people are vastly more likely to be obese than upper middle class folks?

While in US I used to live in a borderline poor area (only two blocks away from really run down areas) and work as a postdoc in an Ivy League University. It was an illuminating etnographic journey every morning from the land of obese to the land of fit. Hardly any students were overweight, let alone obese whereas almost all cashiers in the local grocery store were. It was also a journey from the land of black and Hispanic people to the land of white and Asian people...

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #87 on: June 06, 2014, 11:03:12 AM »
There must be serious societal factors behind the phenomena, particularly in US but to an extent also in other developed countries. Otherwise how do you explain that poor people are vastly more likely to be obese than upper middle class folks?


Low quality food has lower nutritional density.
So you have to eat more of it to get the same amount of vitamins and minerals and such.

I once questioned a low-income mother I knew about her buying pudding instead of yogurt.  She said it was because pudding was cheaper.  I strongly considered pointing out the difference in calcium and vitamin D and protein contents, and how, if you look at nutrient per dollar and not just serving size per dollar - I even wrote up a chart - but she was both family, my housing host, and my employer, and I thought it she got offended it could get rather awkward.

Probably not coincidentally, she is clinically morbidly obese.  She said she was ok with that, and had no intention of making any effort to change it.  I hope her son (who I was nannying at the time in exchange for room and board plus a little spending cash) can avoid becoming obese, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up the same way, since childhood habits often stick for a lifetime.

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #88 on: June 06, 2014, 11:34:12 AM »

I still hold to my belief that two people can eat and act exactly the same and have different responses/bodies.

Unless they were both fed in a lab, there is no way to reliably test that theory.
There was a documentary on BBC about weight loss.  Two best friends, one fat, one skinny - they both agreed that the skinny one consistently ate much more, more often, more at each meal, and less healthy food.  They both agreed she must just have higher metabolism.  Then the doctors tested each one's metabolism.  Turns out the heavier one had significantly higher metabolism.  They tracked calorie intake, and found the the larger woman ate more than the smaller one.


Yes, but there are also studies that show that people who lose weight remain in a biologically altered state - a state of constant hunger that lasts for more than a year after losing the weight. 

It may be that losing weight alters hormones and metabolism and seems to create a biological state that makes it extremely difficult to keep the weight off.

This article sets out a some info on this, "biological determinism", and environmental factors:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all&

galliver

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #89 on: June 06, 2014, 11:45:48 AM »
The "fat people are lazy" argument makes me sick. Imagine any other disease of hormonal imbalance skyrocketing over two generations and being written off as a personal laziness issue.

First, how is it a disease when most people can fairly freely choose what to eat?  Second, if they choose to eat refined 'convenience' foods, instead of the somewhat harder (but still possible with reasonable effort) to obtain "natural fat and protein" foods, is that not basically laziness?

I feel like your first statement is roughly equivalent to something like "but alcoholism isn't a disorder because you can choose not to drink!" or "but allergies aren't a disorder since you can choose to take antihistamines!" Obesity isn't just about weight; it involves biochemical changes that involve how your body works, how it processes nutrients and what signals it sends. No one is saying it's impossible and unbeatable, but everyone only has so many hours in the day and probably other responsibilities than just thinking about their weight/shape. 

Finally, what of all the active people who eat mostly those refined sugars & carbs, yet aren't obese?  And conversely, the ones who eat 'natural' diets and yet are obese?

Chances are that that lifestyle will catch up to the people in the first group; that they are not healthy on the inside. Chances are the metabolisms of people in the second group have already been altered by their physiology. Maybe they had poor nutrition in the past, maybe they have a disorder, maybe it's genetic. They are probably fighting an uphill battle. Quantity matters, too, but putting a body in starvation mode will only make matters worse (as it makes it inclined to save/conserve energy and nutrients).

Honestly if they're getting their vitamins and other good stuff from their fresh food, and being mindful of what they're eating (many thin active people I know just kind of eat whatever is cheap/convenient and don't think about nutrition much) then I think they are better off in the long run than those who can do whatever and not see or feel any adverse symptoms until they have a serious (life-threatening) health issue.

-------

I also want to add, and I don't feel like this is brought up enough in this thread: Given our society's attitude right now, no one really wants to be overweight. Kids don't grow up thinking "I want to be a FAT lady when I grow up!"  People in this situation do fight it to the best of their ability and resources. But how long can you fight if you're not getting results? Yes, people give up, temporarily or sometimes permanently, because we can't just focus on this. We have other dreams and other responsibilities--school, work, kids, climbing mountains, etc.

One of the best weight-loss success stories I know is my friend's mom. I don't know the numbers, but she probably lost 1/3-1/2 of her body weight over a few years. I'm guessing she was in the size 16-20 range and I think I heard her mention she's now an 8. She's a stay-at-home mom, and she did this when her younger daughter was in middle school and her older (my friend) in college out-of-state. She went to the gym for 2 hours every weeknight and hiking on weekends. She probably read every science and pseudo-science book on nutrition and I don't know how much of the internet. She filled the house with "fat burning superfoods" like seaweed. I'm not saying it was easy, and I'm sure she struggled and I greatly respect her accomplishment; but I don't know how well she would have done if she didn't have the time and freedom to focus her willpower on this goal as a #1 priority; or if she had lived in a different area without a range of international supermarkets readily available. This same lady has had several false starts at college, trying to respecialize and start a career. Now she says "I'm too old; it's too late for me to have a career; there are no jobs I can learn to do."

Another friend with a dramatic story (possibly more so, I think he's down over 100 lbs in a year?) went from his professional/desk job to full-time yoga instructor. I'm happy for him in finding this path in life that makes him happy; but I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to become fitness instructors (if nothing else, it would glut the market).

So, what I'm saying is that committing your time, energy, and money to goals other than weight and body shape is not laziness.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 12:23:12 PM by galliver »

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #90 on: June 06, 2014, 12:06:51 PM »
Most of the people in town bought wood by the cord from the local lumber yard and split it themselves.  Hunting was one of the primary leisure activities, along with snowmobiling and ice fishing.  You really couldn't live a sedentary live very easily there...

Snowmobiling and ice fishing seem like pretty sedentary activities, at least by my standards.  Hunting can be, depending on how it's done - e.g. if you sit in a blind and wait for the game.

Quote
It sounds like you lived in quite a southern community.  :P

Well, just about anything in the US looks southern from Canada :-)

But the odd thing, as I recall it (it has been a while) is that while there were fat people where I grew up, they were predominately women.  This was back in the era when women mostly didn't work, and didn't do all that much outside the house.



Bakari

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #91 on: June 06, 2014, 06:24:40 PM »
Unless they were both fed in a lab, there is no way to reliably test that theory.
There was a documentary on BBC about weight loss.  Two best friends, one fat, one skinny - they both agreed that the skinny one consistently ate much more, more often, more at each meal, and less healthy food.  They both agreed she must just have higher metabolism.  Then the doctors tested each one's metabolism.  Turns out the heavier one had significantly higher metabolism.  They tracked calorie intake, and found the the larger woman ate more than the smaller one.


Yes, but there are also studies that show that people who lose weight remain in a biologically altered state - a state of constant hunger that lasts for more than a year after losing the weight. 

It may be that losing weight alters hormones and metabolism and seems to create a biological state that makes it extremely difficult to keep the weight off.

This article sets out a some info on this, "biological determinism", and environmental factors:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all&

Oh, don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing with you at all.  (in fact, I thought your first post was one of the best in this thread.)
What I will say is the majority of the "biological state" that makes it extremely difficult is an increase in hunger and appetite. 
That doesn't make it as simple as "willpower", and more than one can use willpower to give up sleep or urination or desire for social interaction.
But the "metabolism" card is over played. 
Quote

One study[1] noted that one standard deviation of variance for resting metabolic rate (how many calories are burnt by living) was 5-8%; meaning 1 standard deviation of the population (68%) was within 6-8% of the average metabolic rate. Extending this, 2 standard deviations of the population (96%) was within 10-16% of the population average.[1]

Extending this into practical terms and assuming an average expenditure of 2000kcal a day, 68% of the population falls into the range of 1840-2160kcal daily while 96% of the population is in the range of 1680-2320kcal daily. Comparing somebody at or below the 5th percentile with somebody at or above the 95th percentile would yield a difference of possibly 600kcal daily, and the chance of this occurring (comparing the self to a friend) is 0.50%, assuming two completely random persons.

To give a sense of calories, 200kcal (the difference in metabolic rate in approximately half the population) is approximately equivalent to 2 tablespoons of peanut butter, a single poptart (a package of two is 400kcal) or half of a large slice of pizza. An oreo is about 70kcal, and a chocolate bar in the range of 150-270kcal depending on brand.

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15534426)

Resting metabolism refers to stuff like breathing, thinking, digesting food, pumping blood, and renewing cells.  It doesn't vary much, and people who weight more generally have HIGHER metabolism.

In contrast to metabolism, the calories burned by activity (whether exercise, having an active job, traveling under human power, or just walking around the house, any conscious movement) can easily vary by a couple thousand.  Simply doing physically active work as opposed to sitting at a desk, without any "exercise" at all will burn more calories than the range of human metabolism.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 07:10:26 PM by Bakari »

sheepstache

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2014, 11:30:45 PM »
Okay, guys, hear me out, this might be TMI, but...
Every coupla days, sometimes every day, when I sit down on the toilet, this solid, brown, log-like thing comes out.
Does this happen to other people?  Yes?  Good, glad you're still with me.
This never seems to come up with the calories in = calories out folks.  Yet this appears to be a not insignificant fraction of the food I've eaten that neither gets turned into energy nor goes straight to my hips. 
So, just like there are people with slower or faster metabolisms, couldn't there also be people with more or less efficient digestive tracts when it comes to wringing every last calorie and nutrient out of food?  We already know there are people with celiacs who fail to absorb some nutrients.  Couldn't some people be eating whatever they want and whatever's not needed gets sent down the poopshoot? 
Obviously evolution favors more efficient use of scarce resources, but there are a lot of angles to consider (just to start with: populations with constantly-lean members can still hunt, or game theory strategies where it's better to consume more food so your rivals can't have it, or variations within the population of "processing time" helping to adapt to different fiber levels available in the diet, etc.)


I still hold to my belief that two people can eat and act exactly the same and have different responses/bodies.

Unless they were both fed in a lab, there is no way to reliably test that theory.
There was a documentary on BBC about weight loss.  Two best friends, one fat, one skinny - they both agreed that the skinny one consistently ate much more, more often, more at each meal, and less healthy food.  They both agreed she must just have higher metabolism.  Then the doctors tested each one's metabolism.  Turns out the heavier one had significantly higher metabolism.  They tracked calorie intake, and found the the larger woman ate more than the smaller one.


This strikes me as interesting because it shows that people really have no good conception of how much they or others eat, relatively.  In this case they came from the mindset that thinner people have higher metabolisms, so that is what they saw evidence for.  Conversely and likewise, people who are convinced the overweight bring it on themselves are more likely to have the confirmation bias that this is true ("I always see fat people buying junk food", etc.)

Ottawa

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #93 on: June 10, 2014, 06:03:07 AM »
Okay, guys, hear me out, this might be TMI, but...
Every coupla days, sometimes every day, when I sit down on the toilet, this solid, brown, log-like thing comes out.
Does this happen to other people?  Yes?  Good, glad you're still with me.
This never seems to come up with the calories in = calories out folks.  Yet this appears to be a not insignificant fraction of the food I've eaten that neither gets turned into energy nor goes straight to my hips. 
So, just like there are people with slower or faster metabolisms, couldn't there also be people with more or less efficient digestive tracts when it comes to wringing every last calorie and nutrient out of food?  We already know there are people with celiacs who fail to absorb some nutrients.  Couldn't some people be eating whatever they want and whatever's not needed gets sent down the poopshoot? 
Obviously evolution favors more efficient use of scarce resources, but there are a lot of angles to consider (just to start with: populations with constantly-lean members can still hunt, or game theory strategies where it's better to consume more food so your rivals can't have it, or variations within the population of "processing time" helping to adapt to different fiber levels available in the diet, etc.)

Nothing wrong with this line of thought!  Of course, you could be right.  There is support for your reasoning..to start with a bunch of links imbedded in this article here

I would add that there is no doubt a bell curve associated with processing efficiency and/or processing selectivity


I still hold to my belief that two people can eat and act exactly the same and have different responses/bodies.

Unless they were both fed in a lab, there is no way to reliably test that theory.
There was a documentary on BBC about weight loss.  Two best friends, one fat, one skinny - they both agreed that the skinny one consistently ate much more, more often, more at each meal, and less healthy food.  They both agreed she must just have higher metabolism.  Then the doctors tested each one's metabolism.  Turns out the heavier one had significantly higher metabolism.  They tracked calorie intake, and found the the larger woman ate more than the smaller one.


This strikes me as interesting because it shows that people really have no good conception of how much they or others eat, relatively.  In this case they came from the mindset that thinner people have higher metabolisms, so that is what they saw evidence for.  Conversely and likewise, people who are convinced the overweight bring it on themselves are more likely to have the confirmation bias that this is true ("I always see fat people buying junk food", etc.)

Yes, that was an interesting documentary.  I think it was a 6 part series on youtube?  I can't remember if it was the documentary, or another.  But, I recall another interesting part.  That is that people do not honestly report what they eat.  I think this was mentioned somewhere higher up in this thread....


GuitarStv

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2014, 06:05:28 AM »
Okay, guys, hear me out, this might be TMI, but...
Every coupla days, sometimes every day, when I sit down on the toilet, this solid, brown, log-like thing comes out.
Does this happen to other people?  Yes?  Good, glad you're still with me.
This never seems to come up with the calories in = calories out folks.  Yet this appears to be a not insignificant fraction of the food I've eaten that neither gets turned into energy nor goes straight to my hips. 
So, just like there are people with slower or faster metabolisms, couldn't there also be people with more or less efficient digestive tracts when it comes to wringing every last calorie and nutrient out of food?  We already know there are people with celiacs who fail to absorb some nutrients.  Couldn't some people be eating whatever they want and whatever's not needed gets sent down the poopshoot? 
Obviously evolution favors more efficient use of scarce resources, but there are a lot of angles to consider (just to start with: populations with constantly-lean members can still hunt, or game theory strategies where it's better to consume more food so your rivals can't have it, or variations within the population of "processing time" helping to adapt to different fiber levels available in the diet, etc.)

You would think that evolution would select pretty hard against this trait, as putting on weight/fat is a handy way to deal with the natural feast/famine cycles that you run into in the wild.  Typically populations with constantly-lean members would be hunting non-stop  . . . because they're starving to death.  Throw in one epidemic, one bad season, a slightly too large population and they would tip towards mass starving off.

Consuming more food than your rivals would maybe be an effective game theory strategy . . . but actually becoming physically larger and more imposing would still be beneficial over staying skinny.  A dude with 80 lbs on you has an advantage in a fight, even if most of the 80 lbs is fat.  It's not necessarily an insurmountable advantage, but it is an advantage.  That's why we do weight classes in every fighting sport.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 06:07:50 AM by GuitarStv »

AJDZee

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2014, 08:37:50 AM »
I've never met an obese person who exercises an hour a day and eats at least 3-4 servings of vegetables per day.

I have.  There are people with actual medical issues, tyroid, etc.
I think these people are in the minority of all the obese people in the world.  If they are exercising and eating well then it seems to reason that they are pretty healthy other than their illness, which is out of their control.

I am overweight right now, but it is due to laziness (lack of exercise) and poor eating habits (I love sugar).  I am making changes to improve myself now, but a few weeks ago even I was blaming it on babyweight, breastfeeding and lack of sleep/energy/time.

The problem is that in order for people to change themselves they have to WANT to change.  That is not the case for many.

JoyBlogette, you are spot on!!
If everyone else had the same mentality as you - "I am overweight because of ME" - rather than blaming everything under the sun (medical issues, genetics, corporations, CORPORATIONS!), this world would be on a better/healthier track than it is today.

sheepstache

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2014, 08:50:02 AM »
Sorry, what I didn't make clear is that I don't mean a whole population of lean-types, but that a population with variation that included lean types would have an advantage over one that didn't. 
For all the reasons you state, being constantly lean has its dangers, but so does being overweight in some situations (though probably unprecedented at the current levels). 
Re: weight classes, the skinnier types have an advantage when it comes to running away! 
It also helps dissipate heat better which is the reason they theorize behind a lot of our differences from other primates.

This is just to say that while we could say that the goal of evolution is to produce larger and larger humans, there are enough slender people that it must confer advantages other than low calorie costs (and therefore probably persists even in non-calorie-efficient forms). 

For women, skinniness might create an appearance of being younger and thereby trigger more protective instincts, or a lower fat percentage causing infertility in situations where there's just enough food but not really a glut might be an advantage (and variety would mean not all the women suddenly becoming fertile at once which could be bad population explosion, or they could out-eat a rival group and keep their women infertile).  Or, given the importance of social groups and the misperceptions we see demonstrated, being fat might have the disadvantage of making someone look like they take up more resources than others, which, maybe if you're a skinny geezer that keeps you in the group and so able to offer benefits to your offspring for longer.  (I have no conviction about these women/old people arguments, just pointing out that rivals/evolution isn't only about dudes fighting each other.) 

So, just like a diversity of haplotypes played a major role in europeans vs. native americans surviving disease, variety would help a population here.  And, for the reasons you state, we'd still expect it to be a minority.


Speaking of disease, faster processing and less absorption might make you less likely to die of bad food poisoning--on the surface it seems unlikely because food poisoning causes vomiting/diarrhea stuff that's easier to survive if you have fat reserves, but maybe skinny people simply don't show symptoms most of the time they eat something bad because they absorb less of it.  In other words if most of your group took 1 step forward in eating and absorbing a lot only to take 2 steps back if that food makes them sick (or dies if it's just straight up poison at high doses).  The person who just takes a half step forward and then doesn't get sick or die is better off.


Or maybe it's totally unrelated to anything useful.  Bad eyesight would seem to have a lot of evolutionary forces working against it, but apparently it's tied to the genes for higher intelligence.

ruthiegirl

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2014, 09:06:23 AM »
Why am I overweight?  Because I am hungry!   Crazy hungry.  I have done low carb and paleo and weight watchers and all the rest.  I can lose weight, but it is a long-term commitment to gnawing, all-day hunger. 

No matter where I source my food, grass fed beef and nutrient dense vegetable included, my body is hungrier than most and it the one thing I wish I could change about myself. 

I am committed to weight loss, but it is bittersweet.  I know that it will be months of very hard work, an empty belly, and lots of patience. 

teen persuasion

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2014, 10:45:30 AM »


I still hold to my belief that two people can eat and act exactly the same and have different responses/bodies. I'm sorry this seems impossible for people whose bodies have a more straightforward cause->effect response to understand. My weight didn't/doesn't change when I start (or stop) going to the gym, riding my bike to work, or eating salads for lunch instead of sandwiches or pasta or whatnot. My shape/fitness, mood, well-being, strength, endurance, energy, etc change. And I think those are worthwhile causes in their own right. I've stopped worrying about the number on the scale or on my pants.



I agree with this.  I couldn't lose or gain weight if I tried.  I try to eat healthy (whatever that means), but I don't restrict myself.  My mom is a pastry chef, and is always trying new recipes, has cast-offs and rejects (for aesthetic reasons) around, and we always had dessert after good, home cooked meals.  None of my sibs or I are overweight, we are all thin, though some of our spouses are overweight.  For us growing up, the abundance of sweets around the house meant that we eventually became immune to it;  I can take or leave a piece of cake, unless it is a really good cake (mom's standards are pretty high).  That's not to say that I don't have a sweet tooth - I won't turn down turtle cheesecake, but that is so rich that you can't eat more than a piece.

My point is that I don't watch what I eat, and I don't actively exercise (but I do tend to do things "the hard way": hang out my laundry, knead dough by hand, haul boxes of books around the library).  My weight doesn't vary.  DH, on the other hand, is struggling with getting his weight back down.  We are eating the same stuff, that I cook, so it's not food.  He's cut back proportions, no change.  He began exercising at the HS fitness center, biking, no change.  He's talked to his doctor, who has diagnosed thyroid issues, but his Rx keeps getting increased, and no change.  There has to be something hormonal that is out of whack that triggers these issues: weight gain, thyroid, BP, eventually insulin intolerance, etc.  It seems like a feedback loop, one issue can lead to the others, but which came first?

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Re: Why are so many people Overweight and Obese?
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2014, 10:52:41 AM »
Why am I overweight?  Because I am hungry!   Crazy hungry.  I have done low carb and paleo and weight watchers and all the rest.  I can lose weight, but it is a long-term commitment to gnawing, all-day hunger. 



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