You are normally really level headed, but you are being super defensive here.
Maybe you want to, when you calm down a bit, examine why that is? You are acting completely irrationally, in my view.
I have spent the last few days struggling with this topic, and ultimately I'm upset because I feel like I've been cast out of my tribe, and forced to consider if I ever belonged there in the first place. It wouldn't bother me so much if some random people were jerks on the internet, especially if they were jerks I happen to agree with. But in this case, those people have notified me that not only am I not helping, I'm actually at fault for trying and it looks like I will not be allowed to help because of who I am.
Normally I would find that argument easy to discard as silly, because of course anyone can be an ally. But then more and more people started to show up to reinforce it, and nobody showed up to oppose it, and now it looks like that is in fact the consensus of the tribe to which I thought I belonged. It's an unfolding crisis of identity. This is the group I embraced? They really feel this much animosity, this much irrational fear, that they think this behavior is acceptable even though it so clearly conflicts with everything they claim to believe?
Now I'm homeless, and not happy about it.
I agree with others here, if this conversation is all that it takes to make you identify with MRA’s
I defintely don't identify with MRAs, but I now have a finer appreciation of one specific argument I have heard from that community. It's an argument I had previous discarded as unfounded, but this thread supports the idea that they're on to something in this one narrow instance. I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise that there are bad people on all sides of the divide.
It’s very disrespectful. Why would you say something so deliberately inflammatory?
Was it as disrespectful and inflammatory as gaja and former player have been in this thread? I thought I was clear (e.g. calling them assholes when I first brought it up) that the men's rights people are gross, but that this discussion was validating at least one of their points. Specifically, there are some feminists out there who are shitty human beings. MRAs blow that argument way out of proportion and then use it as cover for their own shitty behavior, which isn't helping either, but the point remains that they're not exactly wrong with the underlying observation. They use it to drive a wedge between men and women, and now I'm learning that women are using it in the same way. Yes, I still feel icky even saying it and I wish it hadn't come to this.
I don't think you are ever going to move anyone towards gender equality by driving wedges between people. Even when your anger is justified, this is the wrong approach. Advocates who so eagerly use the tools of the MRA movement are in danger of having their stink rub off on them.
At the same time though for this instance I'm not entirely sure why it bothers some men when sweeping generalizations are made. I read them myself, think "Meh. Doesn't apply to me, they must be talking about other men." and go about my day.
That doesn't bother me. In fact I started out my reply to Tom with the "don't let it bother you, they don't mean you."
What bothers me is the total preponderance of participants here who seem fine with being demeaning towards men who are trying to help. We need to come together on this issue, and I think it's counterproductive to push people away. When I tried to raise that point, I was met with much more pushing and zero engagement on the substance.
Okay, I'm listening. My contributions here are widely considered unhelpful, even insulting. That was not my intention, but intentions don't matter much in this case. Since the majority of contributors here seem to think that I'm the one being a jerk here, I'll stop. That was my plan two days ago anyway, when it first became clear my views on this topic were unwelcome.
And you aren't either Sol.
That's a bold statement, and one I disagree with. You don't know me or my story.
I hope you take some time to review what has been discussed and try to understand what a number of people are saying to you.
Let's review what a number of people are saying to me!
1. I spoke out of turn by suggesting we treat each other with dignity and respect when I should have been validating a woman's feelings of persecution. (I agree)
2. It's okay to condescend and insult people you disagree with as long as you are part of the justifiably upset minority. (I disagree)
3. Men have been bad forever and they need to be punished for it. (agree with the first part, not so much the second)
4. I should shut up and review my life choices because the community agrees I'm out of line. (heard and embraced, thanks)
Did I miss any of the high points? I welcome edits and/or additions to this list.