Author Topic: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?  (Read 13957 times)

DadJokes

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2020, 06:32:08 AM »
It's almost like everyone looks the other way for members of their team. Weird.

But that sure wasn't the case for Nixon. Nixon said that he was above the law and then his own party reminded him that he wasn't. This will allow future historians to come up with a general idea as to when the USA became a banana republic.

It was either Newt Gingrich or the 2000 election fiasco.

JLee

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2020, 08:00:41 AM »
This is exactly why the founding fathers did their very best to constrain democracy.   A person can be thoughtful and reasonable, but people are stupid biased morons.  This is why the senate is designed to act as a brake on the passions of the congress.  This is why the government is designed to be slow and hard to move in and dramatic way.  Because you cannot trust the mob.
Seems they failed miserably at the task then.

Here we have a situation in which a single person seems to be completely untouchable and allowed to do whatever they want.

Given the string of pardons and hints at pardoning Stone, it's not a single person anymore.

BlueHouse

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2020, 08:14:33 AM »
All it would take for me would be for him to win the primary.  Do that, and I'll not only vote for him, I'll campaign for him.


TempusFugit

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2020, 11:45:59 AM »
This is exactly why the founding fathers did their very best to constrain democracy.   A person can be thoughtful and reasonable, but people are stupid biased morons.  This is why the senate is designed to act as a brake on the passions of the congress.  This is why the government is designed to be slow and hard to move in and dramatic way.  Because you cannot trust the mob.
Seems they failed miserably at the task then.

Here we have a situation in which a single person seems to be completely untouchable and allowed to do whatever they want.

Given the string of pardons and hints at pardoning Stone, it's not a single person anymore.

And you have a selective memory if you dont recall Clinton and Obama also engaging in some sketchy pardoning.  Heck thats nothing compared to what Obama did regarding Hillary and her various misdeeds while serving as secretary of state. 

Im not defending Trump, whom I loathe, i am pointing out the bias that i see in so many posts where the sketchy crap done by democrats is ignored and only the sketchy crap done by republicans is worthy of mention.   It is just that kind of partisanship that not only allows this behavior but encourages it, because it is so clear that the people dont care what their own “team” does. 

GuitarStv

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2020, 12:18:33 PM »
Heck thats nothing compared to what Obama did regarding Hillary and her various misdeeds while serving as secretary of state. 

Which misdeeds are you referring to?

TempusFugit

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2020, 05:19:17 PM »
Heck thats nothing compared to what Obama did regarding Hillary and her various misdeeds while serving as secretary of state. 

Which misdeeds are you referring to?

The email server that clearly violated the law.  Then the obvious lying about it e.g. “i thought they meant wipe it, like with a cloth” and “oh, i didn't know what that marking meant”.  BS. 

The Clinton foundation “access for cash” scheme would be another example. 

These are all the things we all know already.  Some of us just rationalize and make excuses because thats how humans do things when they really want to believe something other than the obvious. 

the same goes for people who try to explain the crap our current president does.   But both sides are guilty of the same behavior.


MasterStache

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2020, 05:37:58 PM »
Heck thats nothing compared to what Obama did regarding Hillary and her various misdeeds while serving as secretary of state. 

Which misdeeds are you referring to?

The email server that clearly violated the law.  Then the obvious lying about it e.g. “i thought they meant wipe it, like with a cloth” and “oh, i didn't know what that marking meant”.  BS. 

The Clinton foundation “access for cash” scheme would be another example. 

These are all the things we all know already.  Some of us just rationalize and make excuses because thats how humans do things when they really want to believe something other than the obvious.

the same goes for people who try to explain the crap our current president does.   But both sides are guilty of the same behavior.

The "wiped the server with a cloth" comment was a joke. It was complete and obvious satire.

Clinton Foundation has been debunked to death, ever since misinformation was published everywhere about it during the campaign. But according to you these are both the same:
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6903
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=16764

Perhaps you should apply the bolded to yourself rather than projecting it onto others. No, both sides are not guilty of the same behavior. Not even close. No matter how much misinformation feeds into your confirmation bias.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 05:44:32 PM by MasterStache »

GuitarStv

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2020, 06:34:08 PM »
Heck thats nothing compared to what Obama did regarding Hillary and her various misdeeds while serving as secretary of state. 

Which misdeeds are you referring to?

The email server that clearly violated the law.

My understanding is that President Trump was very clear about his intent to lock Hilary Clinton up once in office.  That he was unable to do this makes me suspect that there was in fact no clear violation of any law allowing him to do so.  Certainly, using private email to conduct government business doesn't seem to be a problem for people working under Trump . . . Ivanka Trump, Betsy DeVos, Jared Kushner, Steve Bannon, K.T. McFarland, Stephen Miller, Reince Priebus, and Gary Cohn all used private email for this purpose (https://www.newsweek.com/trump-officials-private-email-ivanka-jared-kushner-betsy-devos-1449556).  FWIW, I think that all of the aforementioned (including Clinton) are idiots for doing this . . . but again . . . since nobody has arrested any of them either it would seem that there's no clear violation of the law for stupidity in this particular form.



The Clinton foundation “access for cash” scheme would be another example.

It has already been mentioned in this thread, but you are repeating a lie here.

dividendman

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2020, 07:01:48 PM »
Watching the Democratic debate now, and Bloomberg in my opinion is a bloody corpse on the stage. He is... not doing well.

I hope he will make good on his promise to put his money toward defeating Trump even if he is not the nominee. Because I do not think he is gonna be the nominee.

He probably won't be the nominee, but there is sufficient polling evidence from previous presidential and primary debates to show that they don't really matter.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2020, 01:46:34 PM »
Heck thats nothing compared to what Obama did regarding Hillary and her various misdeeds while serving as secretary of state. 

Which misdeeds are you referring to?

The email server that clearly violated the law.

My understanding is that President Trump was very clear about his intent to lock Hilary Clinton up once in office.  That he was unable to do this makes me suspect that there was in fact no clear violation of any law allowing him to do so.  Certainly, using private email to conduct government business doesn't seem to be a problem for people working under Trump . . . Ivanka Trump, Betsy DeVos, Jared Kushner, Steve Bannon, K.T. McFarland, Stephen Miller, Reince Priebus, and Gary Cohn all used private email for this purpose (https://www.newsweek.com/trump-officials-private-email-ivanka-jared-kushner-betsy-devos-1449556).  FWIW, I think that all of the aforementioned (including Clinton) are idiots for doing this . . . but again . . . since nobody has arrested any of them either it would seem that there's no clear violation of the law for stupidity in this particular form.


I hold a security clearance, as did Hillary Clinton. We both signed the same standard government non-disclosure agreement, Standard Form 312 (see below).

If I were to send classified information on an unclassified system I would almost certainly have my security clearance revoked, and possibly face criminal charges. The latter is rare, but it does occur. Hillary Clinton absolutely sent classified information via unclassified means i.e. her private email. Just because it wasn't marked as such, doesn't change that it was classified and should have only been transmitted by secure means. The NDA and the law make it clear that ignorance is not an affirmative defense.

As in most things, the rules only apply to the little people. Whether it's a celebrity getting a slap on the wrist for a drug charge or assault, or a high-ranking government official not getting prosecuted for something that their subordinates certainly would.

"1. Intending to be legally bound, I hereby accept the obligations contained in this Agreement in consideration of my being granted access to classified information. As used in this Agreement, classified information is marked or unmarked classified information, including oral communications, that is classified under the standards of Executive Order 13526, or under any other Executive order or statute that prohibits the unauthorized disclosure of information in the interest of national security; and unclassified information that meets the standards for classification and is in the process of a classification determination as provided in sections 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4(e) of Executive Order 13526, or under any other Executive order or statute that requires protection for such information in the interest of national security. I understand and accept that by being granted access to classified information, special confidence and trust shall be placed in me by the United States Government."

"4. ...In addition, I have been advised that any unauthorized disclosure of classified information by me may constitute a violation, or violations, of United States criminal laws, including the provisions of sections 641, 793, 794, 798, *952 and 1924, title 18, United States Code; *the provisions of section 783(b}, title 50, United States Code; and the provisions of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. I recognize that nothing in this Agreement constitutes a waiver by the United States of the right to prosecute me for any statutory violation. "

GuitarStv

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2020, 02:09:06 PM »
If this is truly viewed as a serious breach that's easily provable, why aren't people locking up Clinton, DeVos, Trump (the daughter, not the president of course - he is above the law according to the DOJ), Kushner, Preibus, etc.?

And what does any of that have to do with Obama . . . who you said was responsible for something related to Clinton?

ChpBstrd

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2020, 10:29:43 PM »
How can Sanders and Bloomberg be in the lead?

This is shaping up to me a Mondale vs. Reagan election, except it'll be a bigger landslide.

We're F'd.

DadJokes

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2020, 06:47:13 AM »
How can Sanders and Bloomberg be in the lead?

This is shaping up to me a Mondale vs. Reagan election, except it'll be a bigger landslide.

We're F'd.

I'd prefer not to compare Trump with Reagan.

partgypsy

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2020, 10:02:15 AM »
Heck thats nothing compared to what Obama did regarding Hillary and her various misdeeds while serving as secretary of state. 

Which misdeeds are you referring to?

The email server that clearly violated the law.

My understanding is that President Trump was very clear about his intent to lock Hilary Clinton up once in office.  That he was unable to do this makes me suspect that there was in fact no clear violation of any law allowing him to do so.  Certainly, using private email to conduct government business doesn't seem to be a problem for people working under Trump . . . Ivanka Trump, Betsy DeVos, Jared Kushner, Steve Bannon, K.T. McFarland, Stephen Miller, Reince Priebus, and Gary Cohn all used private email for this purpose (https://www.newsweek.com/trump-officials-private-email-ivanka-jared-kushner-betsy-devos-1449556).  FWIW, I think that all of the aforementioned (including Clinton) are idiots for doing this . . . but again . . . since nobody has arrested any of them either it would seem that there's no clear violation of the law for stupidity in this particular form.


I hold a security clearance, as did Hillary Clinton. We both signed the same standard government non-disclosure agreement, Standard Form 312 (see below).

If I were to send classified information on an unclassified system I would almost certainly have my security clearance revoked, and possibly face criminal charges. The latter is rare, but it does occur. Hillary Clinton absolutely sent classified information via unclassified means i.e. her private email. Just because it wasn't marked as such, doesn't change that it was classified and should have only been transmitted by secure means. The NDA and the law make it clear that ignorance is not an affirmative defense.

As in most things, the rules only apply to the little people. Whether it's a celebrity getting a slap on the wrist for a drug charge or assault, or a high-ranking government official not getting prosecuted for something that their subordinates certainly would.

"1. Intending to be legally bound, I hereby accept the obligations contained in this Agreement in consideration of my being granted access to classified information. As used in this Agreement, classified information is marked or unmarked classified information, including oral communications, that is classified under the standards of Executive Order 13526, or under any other Executive order or statute that prohibits the unauthorized disclosure of information in the interest of national security; and unclassified information that meets the standards for classification and is in the process of a classification determination as provided in sections 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4(e) of Executive Order 13526, or under any other Executive order or statute that requires protection for such information in the interest of national security. I understand and accept that by being granted access to classified information, special confidence and trust shall be placed in me by the United States Government."

"4. ...In addition, I have been advised that any unauthorized disclosure of classified information by me may constitute a violation, or violations, of United States criminal laws, including the provisions of sections 641, 793, 794, 798, *952 and 1924, title 18, United States Code; *the provisions of section 783(b}, title 50, United States Code; and the provisions of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. I recognize that nothing in this Agreement constitutes a waiver by the United States of the right to prosecute me for any statutory violation. "

I am also a government employee. Hillary did not follow protocol, as did many others. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was clueless (Colin Powell and Condeleezza Rice, the people before her in that position did the same thing).
There has been SO much attention on this. Everyone should know the rules, there should be no excuse, right?

 As someone else pointed out, the current White House, multiple people, multiple times, keeps breaking or going around security rules.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-officials-private-email-ivanka-jared-kushner-betsy-devos-1449556
Trump can't stop twittering. He does presidential announcements and firings over twitter (and then deletes sh*t when he changes his mind).
More serious events were Trump meeting with Putin. Telling Putin classified information about our allies (https://www.businessinsider.com/bombshell-report-trump-oval-office-meeting-russians-comey-2017-11). Trump trying to hide the problematic phone call by hiding it on a high security server, so it wouldn't show up on routine searches. And Trump physically ripping up official government docs, apparently on a regular basis. My favorite. Pruitt spending 43K of taxpayer money on a soundproof room. Why does any public servant need a f-ing sound proof room, unless you are transacting business you don't want anyone to know about?  https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/16/politics/pruitt-soundproof-booth/index.html. These are far more serious and damaging security issues. At least he was removed, which was the correct action.

I am constantly reminded that it seems Trump does not need to follow the rules that EVERY OTHER government employee needs to adhere to. Read the below ethical conduct principles and count how many of these Trump has broken. Compare him to any other President. 

Fourteen Principles of Ethical Conduct for Federal Employees

(Executive Order 12674)

Public service is a public trust; employees must place loyalty to the Constitution, the laws, and ethical principles above private gain.
Employees shall not hold financial interests that conflict with the conscientious performance of duty.
Employees shall not engage in financial transactions using nonpublic Government information or allow the improper use of such information to further any private interest.
Employee shall not, except as permitted by the Standards of Ethical Conduct, solicit or accept any gift or other item of monetary value from any person or entity seeking official action from, doing business with, or conducting activities regulated by the employee's agency, or whose interests may be substantially affected by the performance or nonperformance of the employee's duties.
Employees shall put forth honest effort in the performance of their duties.
Employees shall not knowingly make unauthorized commitments or promises of any kind purporting to bind the Government.
Employees shall not use public office for private gain.
Employees shall act impartially and not give preferential treatment to any private organization or individual.
Employees shall protect and conserve Federal property and shall not use it for other than authorized activities.
Employees shall not engage in outside employment or activities - including seeking or negotiating for employment - that conflict with official Government duties and responsibilities.
Employees shall disclose waste, fraud, abuse, and corruption to appropriate authorities.
Employees shall satisfy in good faith their obligations as citizens, including all financial obligations, especially those imposed by law, such as Federal, state, or local taxes.
Employees shall adhere to all laws and regulations that provide equal opportunity for all Americans regardless of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, or handicap.
Employees shall endeavor to avoid any actions creating the appearance that they are violating the law or the ethical standards set forth in the Standards of Ethical Conduct. Whether particular circumstances create an appearance that the law or these standards have been violated shall be determined from the perspective of a reasonable person with knowledge of the relevant facts.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 10:14:09 AM by partgypsy »

mm1970

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2020, 03:12:53 PM »
How can Sanders and Bloomberg be in the lead?

This is shaping up to me a Mondale vs. Reagan election, except it'll be a bigger landslide.

We're F'd.
Because you either love Sanders, or you don't.

Bloomberg is Trump 0.75

All the moderates are competing for the rest of the votes.

PDXTabs

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2020, 04:00:07 PM »
I am also a government employee. Hillary did not follow protocol, as did many others. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was clueless (Colin Powell and Condeleezza Rice, the people before her in that position did the same thing).

As far as I'm concerned they can all share the same cell. My friends with TSSCI clearance tell me that they would be in prison if they had done what Clinton did. It's pretty obvious to me that these people are in a political class where the law often does not apply to them.

FIPurpose

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #66 on: February 24, 2020, 07:22:27 PM »
How can Sanders and Bloomberg be in the lead?

This is shaping up to me a Mondale vs. Reagan election, except it'll be a bigger landslide.

We're F'd.

I'm completely confused by your analogy. Are you saying that Bernie would win less than the 1 state that Mondale won? I'm trying to figure out how a Sanders v Trump election would be comparable to Mondale v Reagan, but I'm failing to see what connects them.

1. Reagan had like +10% favorability rating compared to Trump's -10%
2. Mondale was the VP of Carter's unpopular administration.
3. This was 40 years ago.
4. Demographics are completely different today.
5. We can see clearly now that Reagan's economic policies were disastrous

If anything I would assume Sanders might be more comparable to Jesse Jackson's campaign. Except now there's a much larger electorate willing to back that type of candidate.

ChpBstrd

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2020, 12:58:57 PM »
How can Sanders and Bloomberg be in the lead?

This is shaping up to me a Mondale vs. Reagan election, except it'll be a bigger landslide.

We're F'd.

I'm completely confused by your analogy. Are you saying that Bernie would win less than the 1 state that Mondale won? I'm trying to figure out how a Sanders v Trump election would be comparable to Mondale v Reagan, but I'm failing to see what connects them.

1. Reagan had like +10% favorability rating compared to Trump's -10%
2. Mondale was the VP of Carter's unpopular administration.
3. This was 40 years ago.
4. Demographics are completely different today.
5. We can see clearly now that Reagan's economic policies were disastrous

If anything I would assume Sanders might be more comparable to Jesse Jackson's campaign. Except now there's a much larger electorate willing to back that type of candidate.

Admittedly, McGovern vs Nixon is a better comparison. I do think Sanders will do several times better than those two, and still lose. Regarding the 5 reasons above, here are my takes:

1) That was also an era with much higher voter turnout. Trump was predicting to lose badly based on the majority of polls done in 2016, but then we learned answering a poll is different than turning out to vote.
2) And Sanders has been the communist boogeyman of right wing media for decades. Conservative turnout will be high, as it was for Clinton, another boogeyman.
3) Does this matter because there wasn’t a struggle between pragmatists and ideologues in the Democratic Party 40 years ago, or due to some other assumption.
4) Than they were in 2016? In a favorable way for Democrats (who have lost most of the states, the executive branch, the judicial branch, and the Senate with today’s demographics?)?
5) Depends who you ask. More to the point, which historical narrative is backed by more money so that more people believe it?


EngagedToFIRE

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2020, 06:53:52 PM »
Bloomberg is probably the most competent candidate that I can remember on a Democratic ticket.  I'm taking Trump over ANY of the other candidates, (I'm an independent who definitely leans right), but I would vote for Bloomberg over Trump, without a doubt.  He is exactly the kind of person who should be running things.  Experience, competence, moderate, and would almost certainly get things done in a bi-partisan fashion.  No need to buy my vote.  Just get the nomination and he'll be elected for sure.  He'll get just about every D vote and pull a huge amount of R's.

But what's really going to happen is Bernie will get the nomination and get slaughtered in the general election.  I'm fine either way, but I would love to see Mike as the next President.

PKFFW

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2020, 09:25:02 PM »
Bloomberg is probably the most competent candidate that I can remember on a Democratic ticket.  I'm taking Trump over ANY of the other candidates, (I'm an independent who definitely leans right), but I would vote for Bloomberg over Trump, without a doubt.  He is exactly the kind of person who should be running things.  Experience, competence, moderate, and would almost certainly get things done in a bi-partisan fashion.  No need to buy my vote.  Just get the nomination and he'll be elected for sure.  He'll get just about every D vote and pull a huge amount of R's.

But what's really going to happen is Bernie will get the nomination and get slaughtered in the general election.  I'm fine either way, but I would love to see Mike as the next President.
*Bold added for emphasis

It truly amazes me, as an outsider looking in, what constitutes a "moderate" in US politics.

ministashy

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #70 on: February 27, 2020, 12:30:29 AM »
Bloomberg is probably the most competent candidate that I can remember on a Democratic ticket.  I'm taking Trump over ANY of the other candidates, (I'm an independent who definitely leans right), but I would vote for Bloomberg over Trump, without a doubt. 
*Bold added for emphasis

This to me says you don't want to vote for a Democrat.  You want Republican-lite.

And Bloomberg might pull a lot of R's, but if he ends up the Democratic candidate, he's going to lose a heckuva lot of D's.  I would hold my nose and vote for him because I think Trump is just that bad, but there's a significant chunk of the minority/younger portion of the Democrat party who likely won't feel the same way.

ChpBstrd

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #71 on: February 27, 2020, 08:21:10 AM »
Bloomberg is probably the most competent candidate that I can remember on a Democratic ticket.  I'm taking Trump over ANY of the other candidates, (I'm an independent who definitely leans right), but I would vote for Bloomberg over Trump, without a doubt. 
*Bold added for emphasis

This to me says you don't want to vote for a Democrat.  You want Republican-lite.

And Bloomberg might pull a lot of R's, but if he ends up the Democratic candidate, he's going to lose a heckuva lot of D's.  I would hold my nose and vote for him because I think Trump is just that bad, but there's a significant chunk of the minority/younger portion of the Democrat party who likely won't feel the same way.

There’s a good case to be made for the D’s to give up on the sort of potential voters who consider boycotting elections to be some sort of personal purity test and bragging opportunity on social media, and who vote inconsistently if ever. Then they could go after probable voters in the middle, like @EngagedToFIRE.

waltworks

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #72 on: February 27, 2020, 10:53:17 AM »
Agreed. If you spend all your time talking about transgender bathroom issues or #metoo outrages of the day or reparations for slavery (note that I'm not expressing a personal opinion on any of those things) to cater to the far left of the party, you will lose. Over and over and over. Because the moderate voters are annoyed and/or offended by that stuff, for better or worse.

Unless we have a big recession/Coronavirus outbreak (WTF was Trump thinking with the press conference?) Sanders gets creamed.

-W

Michael in ABQ

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #73 on: February 27, 2020, 12:50:59 PM »
I am also a government employee. Hillary did not follow protocol, as did many others. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was clueless (Colin Powell and Condeleezza Rice, the people before her in that position did the same thing).

As far as I'm concerned they can all share the same cell. My friends with TSSCI clearance tell me that they would be in prison if they had done what Clinton did. It's pretty obvious to me that these people are in a political class where the law often does not apply to them.

Yep.

EngagedToFIRE

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #74 on: February 27, 2020, 05:36:08 PM »
Bloomberg is probably the most competent candidate that I can remember on a Democratic ticket.  I'm taking Trump over ANY of the other candidates, (I'm an independent who definitely leans right), but I would vote for Bloomberg over Trump, without a doubt.  He is exactly the kind of person who should be running things.  Experience, competence, moderate, and would almost certainly get things done in a bi-partisan fashion.  No need to buy my vote.  Just get the nomination and he'll be elected for sure.  He'll get just about every D vote and pull a huge amount of R's.

But what's really going to happen is Bernie will get the nomination and get slaughtered in the general election.  I'm fine either way, but I would love to see Mike as the next President.
*Bold added for emphasis

It truly amazes me, as an outsider looking in, what constitutes a "moderate" in US politics.

What about Bloomberg do you consider radical or extreme?

EngagedToFIRE

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2020, 05:39:00 PM »
Bloomberg is probably the most competent candidate that I can remember on a Democratic ticket.  I'm taking Trump over ANY of the other candidates, (I'm an independent who definitely leans right), but I would vote for Bloomberg over Trump, without a doubt. 
*Bold added for emphasis

This to me says you don't want to vote for a Democrat.  You want Republican-lite.

And Bloomberg might pull a lot of R's, but if he ends up the Democratic candidate, he's going to lose a heckuva lot of D's.  I would hold my nose and vote for him because I think Trump is just that bad, but there's a significant chunk of the minority/younger portion of the Democrat party who likely won't feel the same way.

Yes, absolutely.  I clearly said I lean right.  Bernie is an Independent.  So it's like saying if you like Bernie, you don't really want a Democrat, you want an Independent.  The Democrats are VERY wide ranging at the moment, so I'm not even sure what "Democrat" means anymore, to be honest.

EngagedToFIRE

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2020, 05:41:54 PM »
Agreed. If you spend all your time talking about transgender bathroom issues or #metoo outrages of the day or reparations for slavery (note that I'm not expressing a personal opinion on any of those things) to cater to the far left of the party, you will lose. Over and over and over. Because the moderate voters are annoyed and/or offended by that stuff, for better or worse.

Unless we have a big recession/Coronavirus outbreak (WTF was Trump thinking with the press conference?) Sanders gets creamed.

-W

This reminds me of Bloomberg and his gun grabbing.  I'd still vote for him, because I don't think he'd get any of that passed, but that could be his achilles for sure.  Sanders will get creamed in the general election, even all of the Democrats are freaking out because they know THEY won't be voting for him, either.  The thing is, Bernie isn't even a Democrat, it's kind of unfair to the party.  They are getting screwed by radicals fracturing the party.  God, I hate political parties, and especially our 2 party system in the US.

Slow2FIRE

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #77 on: February 27, 2020, 08:19:10 PM »
Bloomberg can't buy my vote.  If he is gifted the nomination by the geniuses in charge of the DNC through super delegates, I won't vote for him.  I'll write in a different candidate's name.  I'd rather have the devil I know then the devil I don't know.  To me, there really isn't much difference between Trump and Bloomberg (take note of all the Trump voters who say they'd vote for Bloomberg).  Trump, at the least, loves attention and tries to pretend he is for the little guy.  Bloomberg clearly shows that he holds anyone who is not super rich in contempt as they are beneath him and too stupid to figure out simple things for themselves.

Car Jack

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2020, 07:16:26 AM »
Heck thats nothing compared to what Obama did regarding Hillary and her various misdeeds while serving as secretary of state. 

Which misdeeds are you referring to?

The email server that clearly violated the law.  Then the obvious lying about it e.g. “i thought they meant wipe it, like with a cloth” and “oh, i didn't know what that marking meant”.  BS. 

The Clinton foundation “access for cash” scheme would be another example. 

These are all the things we all know already.  Some of us just rationalize and make excuses because thats how humans do things when they really want to believe something other than the obvious. 

the same goes for people who try to explain the crap our current president does.   But both sides are guilty of the same behavior.

The server?  Please.

Do you know why Hillary used that server?  Because it was set up by the US government for President Clinton's use.  It was more secure than the actual government servers.  When Hillary became Sec of State, she asked Condoleezaa Rice and Colin Powell what to use for a phone for government business.  Both told her to just use her personal phone.....that's what they did.  What's Ivanka and Jarad use?  You guessed it, personal phones for government business. 

px4shooter

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2020, 11:04:30 AM »
Bloomberg can't buy my vote.  If he is gifted the nomination by the geniuses in charge of the DNC through super delegates, I won't vote for him.  I'll write in a different candidate's name.  I'd rather have the devil I know then the devil I don't know.  To me, there really isn't much difference between Trump and Bloomberg (take note of all the Trump voters who say they'd vote for Bloomberg).  Trump, at the least, loves attention and tries to pretend he is for the little guy.  Bloomberg clearly shows that he holds anyone who is not super rich in contempt as they are beneath him and too stupid to figure out simple things for themselves.

And look at his big history of buying candidates for office and forcing legislation through those he bought. He has taken his personal policies and forced them into every state he can, through political purchasing and funding campaigns.

PDXTabs

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #80 on: February 28, 2020, 11:59:54 AM »
The server?  Please.

Do you know why Hillary used that server?  Because it was set up by the US government for President Clinton's use.  It was more secure than the actual government servers.

Do you want to know what the first page of Google found for me?

Based on server data, mail.clintonemail.com is running on an instance of Microsoft Windows Server 2008 with Internet Information Server 7.5, both of which have had numerous security vulnerabilities uncovered since this particular server was configured. - https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/clintons-email-hosted-on-exchange-2010-server-now-not-in-chappaqua/

Seriously, you could at least try to fact check what you post.

PKFFW

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2020, 07:25:17 PM »
What about Bloomberg do you consider radical or extreme?
Support for stop and frisk for starters.  Most of what little I know about his economic policies would be considered at least right of centre, if not hard right, here in Australia as well.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #82 on: February 29, 2020, 04:05:47 AM »
Heck thats nothing compared to what Obama did regarding Hillary and her various misdeeds while serving as secretary of state. 

Which misdeeds are you referring to?

The email server that clearly violated the law.  Then the obvious lying about it e.g. “i thought they meant wipe it, like with a cloth” and “oh, i didn't know what that marking meant”.  BS. 

The Clinton foundation “access for cash” scheme would be another example. 

These are all the things we all know already.  Some of us just rationalize and make excuses because thats how humans do things when they really want to believe something other than the obvious. 

the same goes for people who try to explain the crap our current president does.   But both sides are guilty of the same behavior.

The server?  Please.

Do you know why Hillary used that server?  Because it was set up by the US government for President Clinton's use.  It was more secure than the actual government servers.  When Hillary became Sec of State, she asked Condoleezaa Rice and Colin Powell what to use for a phone for government business.  Both told her to just use her personal phone.....that's what they did.  What's Ivanka and Jarad use?  You guessed it, personal phones for government business.

The federal government issues computers, login credentials, and email accounts to pretty much everyone. For those who need them (generally anyone senior) they will usually issue phones. I seem to recall some pictures of Hillary Clinton carrying two phones, a common sight for anyone with a government phone. 

The only difference between a personal cell phone and a government issued one is that the government phone will require you to have a screen lock and some other security features turned on - primarily to protect against unauthorized access to the physical device. Cell phone calls are inherently unsecure whereas email can be encrypted or certified to verify it's coming from the person it claims to be coming from.

EngagedToFIRE

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #83 on: March 04, 2020, 07:55:03 AM »
What about Bloomberg do you consider radical or extreme?
Support for stop and frisk for starters.  Most of what little I know about his economic policies would be considered at least right of centre, if not hard right, here in Australia as well.

He doesn't support stop and frisk.  That was a program that he drastically reduced.  I like that he's flexible, listened to the community, and made changes.  I prefer right leaning economic policies, left leaning social policies.  So for me, Bloomberg is a pretty solid candidate.  But it won't matter, he's not going to win.

GuitarStv

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #84 on: March 04, 2020, 08:06:45 AM »
What about Bloomberg do you consider radical or extreme?
Support for stop and frisk for starters.  Most of what little I know about his economic policies would be considered at least right of centre, if not hard right, here in Australia as well.

He doesn't support stop and frisk.  That was a program that he drastically reduced.  I like that he's flexible, listened to the community, and made changes.  I prefer right leaning economic policies, left leaning social policies.  So for me, Bloomberg is a pretty solid candidate.  But it won't matter, he's not going to win.


"I think we disproportionately stop whites too much and minorities too little. It's exactly the reverse of what they say" - Bloomberg in June 2013 at the end of his time as mayor

Stop and frisk numbers exploded under Bloomberg's time as mayor (rising about 600% from his election to their peak when he was in office).  New York recorded about 100k stop and frisks the year Bloomberg was elected, and about 680k at Bloomberg's peak in 2011.  Eventually, the mayor listened to public outcry and multiple lawsuits and by the time he left office stop and frisk numbers were just under 200k.

To say that Bloomberg drastically reduced stop and frisk is not true.  To say that he was publicly against stop and frisk at any time during his mayoralty (or at any time before deciding to run for president) is not true.  To say that Bloomberg listened to the community is maybe partially true, although how much of that was listening and how much of that was damage control is unclear.

achvfi

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #85 on: March 04, 2020, 08:30:58 AM »
Bloomberg suspends presidential campaign, endorses Biden

https://www.axios.com/mike-bloomberg-drops-out-027d9882-3e65-4663-aec0-70025387def6.html


Snip

What he's saying: "I’ve always believed that defeating Donald Trump starts with uniting behind the candidate with the best shot to do it. After yesterday’s vote, it is clear that candidate is my friend and a great American, Joe Biden," Bloomberg said in a statement.

"I’ve known Joe for a very long time. I know his decency, his honesty, and his commitment to the issues that are so important to our country – including gun safety, health care, climate change, and good jobs."


fuzzy math

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2020, 10:06:49 AM »
Hey it only took $500 million (and about 9 mailers to my house) to win American Samoa! Congrats Mike

YttriumNitrate

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2020, 06:45:02 AM »
Based on Wikipedia's current numbers, Bloomberg got 1.414 million votes, so that works out to $353 per vote. I guess that's the answer.

Bloomberg going down in flames is a rather reassuring data point regarding the actual impact money has on an election.

Sanitary Stache

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2020, 06:50:12 AM »
Based on Wikipedia's current numbers, Bloomberg got 1.414 million votes, so that works out to $353 per vote. I guess that's the answer.

Bloomberg going down in flames is a rather reassuring data point regarding the actual impact money has on an election.

Nice!

BlueHouse

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #89 on: March 05, 2020, 12:10:06 PM »
I am also a government employee. Hillary did not follow protocol, as did many others. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was clueless (Colin Powell and Condeleezza Rice, the people before her in that position did the same thing).

As far as I'm concerned they can all share the same cell. My friends with TSSCI clearance tell me that they would be in prison if they had done what Clinton did. It's pretty obvious to me that these people are in a political class where the law often does not apply to them.
I hold a TSSCI clearance, and while I can't disagree with your statements, there are circumstances that make it a bit different than black/white
1.  The vast majority of classified emails that were found were not classified at the time they were sent.  So those cannot be counted.  period.  There's no question about that, okay?
2.  In a small number of cases, people did knowingly put classified docs on unclass systems.  Those were found to have been done for expediency.  As they were high-ranking government officials, I have to believe they at least believed that it was necessary and that they weren't just doing it out of laziness.
3.  Even if it was just laziness, Clinton's husband is a former president, who had a private email server set up with enormous privacy and security protections set up. 
4.  If I had done the same thing, I would certainly get in trouble, but I doubt I would end up in prison unless there was intent. 
5.  For the past 3 years of a Trump administration witch hunt against Clinton's emails (yeah, I'm going there), there have been numerous investigations, and they all say the same thing.  Stupid, careless, even reckless.  But not rising to the point of criminal 

What makes you think your friends with clearances (related to god knows what) know more about this subject than the actual investigators?  What will it take for you to just accept the findings of a court/adjudicator/IG?   

PKFFW

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #90 on: March 05, 2020, 02:04:35 PM »
What makes you think your friends with clearances (related to god knows what) know more about this subject than the actual investigators?  What will it take for you to just accept the findings of a court/adjudicator/IG?
The answer to that is obvious.  It will take a court/adjudicator/IG finding Clinton guilty of all charges, probably including something to do with Benghazi for good measure.  Anything less will be seen as a conspiracy to subvert justice.

Of course the Trump administration doing exactly the same should not be mentioned or considered.

waltworks

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #91 on: March 05, 2020, 07:45:36 PM »
Bloomberg got what he wanted, which is a centrist/center-left candidate to run against Trump. $500 million means zero to him, I bet he considers it money very well spent (and will probably spend a lot more to attack Trump/promote Biden).

-W

martyconlonontherun

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #92 on: March 05, 2020, 08:25:56 PM »
Based on Wikipedia's current numbers, Bloomberg got 1.414 million votes, so that works out to $353 per vote. I guess that's the answer.

Bloomberg going down in flames is a rather reassuring data point regarding the actual impact money has on an election.
I think we are resulting when we say he his money didn't have an impact. He was one more Biden gaffe away and a better canned response in Nevada away from being the main moderate and ultimate democratic candidate.

Davnasty

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2020, 08:49:06 PM »
Based on Wikipedia's current numbers, Bloomberg got 1.414 million votes, so that works out to $353 per vote. I guess that's the answer.

Bloomberg going down in flames is a rather reassuring data point regarding the actual impact money has on an election.
I think we are resulting when we say he his money didn't have an impact. He was one more Biden gaffe away and a better canned response in Nevada away from being the main moderate and ultimate democratic candidate.

I'm not so sure about that, what's the difference between 100 gaffes and 100+1? And how many voters heard his response in Nevada? I'd bet most voters only knew him from commercials.

But I do think his money had influence. How many votes do we think he would have gotten without spending half a billion dollars?

EngagedToFIRE

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2020, 07:18:07 AM »
What about Bloomberg do you consider radical or extreme?
Support for stop and frisk for starters.  Most of what little I know about his economic policies would be considered at least right of centre, if not hard right, here in Australia as well.

He doesn't support stop and frisk.  That was a program that he drastically reduced.  I like that he's flexible, listened to the community, and made changes.  I prefer right leaning economic policies, left leaning social policies.  So for me, Bloomberg is a pretty solid candidate.  But it won't matter, he's not going to win.


"I think we disproportionately stop whites too much and minorities too little. It's exactly the reverse of what they say" - Bloomberg in June 2013 at the end of his time as mayor

Stop and frisk numbers exploded under Bloomberg's time as mayor (rising about 600% from his election to their peak when he was in office).  New York recorded about 100k stop and frisks the year Bloomberg was elected, and about 680k at Bloomberg's peak in 2011.  Eventually, the mayor listened to public outcry and multiple lawsuits and by the time he left office stop and frisk numbers were just under 200k.

To say that Bloomberg drastically reduced stop and frisk is not true.  To say that he was publicly against stop and frisk at any time during his mayoralty (or at any time before deciding to run for president) is not true.  To say that Bloomberg listened to the community is maybe partially true, although how much of that was listening and how much of that was damage control is unclear.

For what it's worth, I support stop and frisk.  Which I'm guessing won't be a popular opinion here.  I think it was a good try to solve real issues.  He did drastically reduce stop and frisk in 2013, his last year.  I like that Mike listened to the community, but I've also kind of liked that he wasn't afraid to just do what needed to be done, regardless of political consequences.  His comments about stop and frisk were not wrong, from a factual standpoint.  They were socially wrong.   I personally see people complaining about gun violence and the destruction it's doing in minority neighborhoods, then complaining when a mayor recognizes it and sends the police out to try and save lives.  "You just can't win" comes to mind.  There is a reason cities like Baltimore are seeing a drastic increase in gun crime after media/social outrage against cops trying to stop it.  What police officer is going to ruin his life to save people that don't want to be saved?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 07:20:26 AM by EngagedToFIRE »

GuitarStv

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2020, 07:42:40 AM »
What about Bloomberg do you consider radical or extreme?
Support for stop and frisk for starters.  Most of what little I know about his economic policies would be considered at least right of centre, if not hard right, here in Australia as well.

He doesn't support stop and frisk.  That was a program that he drastically reduced.  I like that he's flexible, listened to the community, and made changes.  I prefer right leaning economic policies, left leaning social policies.  So for me, Bloomberg is a pretty solid candidate.  But it won't matter, he's not going to win.


"I think we disproportionately stop whites too much and minorities too little. It's exactly the reverse of what they say" - Bloomberg in June 2013 at the end of his time as mayor

Stop and frisk numbers exploded under Bloomberg's time as mayor (rising about 600% from his election to their peak when he was in office).  New York recorded about 100k stop and frisks the year Bloomberg was elected, and about 680k at Bloomberg's peak in 2011.  Eventually, the mayor listened to public outcry and multiple lawsuits and by the time he left office stop and frisk numbers were just under 200k.

To say that Bloomberg drastically reduced stop and frisk is not true.  To say that he was publicly against stop and frisk at any time during his mayoralty (or at any time before deciding to run for president) is not true.  To say that Bloomberg listened to the community is maybe partially true, although how much of that was listening and how much of that was damage control is unclear.

For what it's worth, I support stop and frisk.  Which I'm guessing won't be a popular opinion here.  I think it was a good try to solve real issues.  He did drastically reduce stop and frisk in 2013, his last year.  I like that Mike listened to the community, but I've also kind of liked that he wasn't afraid to just do what needed to be done, regardless of political consequences.  His comments about stop and frisk were not wrong, from a factual standpoint.  They were socially wrong.   I personally see people complaining about gun violence and the destruction it's doing in minority neighborhoods, then complaining when a mayor recognizes it and sends the police out to try and save lives.  "You just can't win" comes to mind.

Your support of policies that permit a largely white police force to legally harass people of colour for the crime of being black/latino aside . . . what you initially posted still stands as factually incorrect.  It is not 'drastically reduced' when the stop and frisk instances at the end of Bloomberg's time as mayor amounted to roughly doubling the number of times that police performed state sanctioned targeted harassment of people based on racial background.

If Americans gave a shit about gun violence, or preventing guns from getting into the hands of criminals it wouldn't be possible to buy a gun without a background check and easily searchable registries would track all guns to owners to enforce this law.  But they don't . . . so please try to avoid bringing up a completely solvable problem that nobody cares to solve as justification for institutionalized racism.

dandarc

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2020, 07:56:44 AM »
@GuitarStv bringing the heat.

BlueHouse

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2020, 08:42:55 AM »

For what it's worth, I support stop and frisk.  Which I'm guessing won't be a popular opinion here.  I think it was a good try to solve real issues.  He did drastically reduce stop and frisk in 2013, his last year.  I like that Mike listened to the community, but I've also kind of liked that he wasn't afraid to just do what needed to be done, regardless of political consequences.  His comments about stop and frisk were not wrong, from a factual standpoint.  They were socially wrong.   I personally see people complaining about gun violence and the destruction it's doing in minority neighborhoods, then complaining when a mayor recognizes it and sends the police out to try and save lives.  "You just can't win" comes to mind.  There is a reason cities like Baltimore are seeing a drastic increase in gun crime after media/social outrage against cops trying to stop it.  What police officer is going to ruin his life to save people that don't want to be saved?

I used to support a lot of policies that I thought worked, so I can't fault you for supporting it.  I will simply ask if you would still support it if you were the target.  Or your kids.  on a regular basis.  In front of your boss or your neighbors.  For no reason other than what you looked like.    Please, really try to put yourself in someone else's shoes when you answer. 

Davnasty

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2020, 08:45:23 AM »
What about Bloomberg do you consider radical or extreme?
Support for stop and frisk for starters.  Most of what little I know about his economic policies would be considered at least right of centre, if not hard right, here in Australia as well.

He doesn't support stop and frisk.  That was a program that he drastically reduced.  I like that he's flexible, listened to the community, and made changes.  I prefer right leaning economic policies, left leaning social policies.  So for me, Bloomberg is a pretty solid candidate.  But it won't matter, he's not going to win.


"I think we disproportionately stop whites too much and minorities too little. It's exactly the reverse of what they say" - Bloomberg in June 2013 at the end of his time as mayor

Stop and frisk numbers exploded under Bloomberg's time as mayor (rising about 600% from his election to their peak when he was in office).  New York recorded about 100k stop and frisks the year Bloomberg was elected, and about 680k at Bloomberg's peak in 2011.  Eventually, the mayor listened to public outcry and multiple lawsuits and by the time he left office stop and frisk numbers were just under 200k.

To say that Bloomberg drastically reduced stop and frisk is not true.  To say that he was publicly against stop and frisk at any time during his mayoralty (or at any time before deciding to run for president) is not true.  To say that Bloomberg listened to the community is maybe partially true, although how much of that was listening and how much of that was damage control is unclear.

For what it's worth, I support stop and frisk.  Which I'm guessing won't be a popular opinion here.  I think it was a good try to solve real issues.  He did drastically reduce stop and frisk in 2013, his last year.  I like that Mike listened to the community, but I've also kind of liked that he wasn't afraid to just do what needed to be done, regardless of political consequences.  His comments about stop and frisk were not wrong, from a factual standpoint.  They were socially wrong.   I personally see people complaining about gun violence and the destruction it's doing in minority neighborhoods, then complaining when a mayor recognizes it and sends the police out to try and save lives.  "You just can't win" comes to mind.  There is a reason cities like Baltimore are seeing a drastic increase in gun crime after media/social outrage against cops trying to stop it.  What police officer is going to ruin his life to save people that don't want to be saved?

I don't want to take the thread off on a tangent but I do want to comment on stop and frisk. I think I can understand where you're coming from and a lot of people feel the same way. On paper, stop and frisk doesn't sound like a bad policy - focus on where the crime is, right?

But in practice what this amounts to is certain people getting stopped again and again. Can you imagine being a low abiding citizen, particularly a kid or young adult in your formative years, being stopped on a regular basis and interrogated like you're a criminal?

If it happens once, you shake it off, but this kind of treatment wears on a person. The long term result was that the communities being disproportionately targeted felt like the police were the enemy and I can't blame them. Those being stopped felt scared even when they had done nothing wrong and again, with the inappropriate use of force we see in the news, I can't blame them. Sometimes this resulted in people saying no or running away and all of a sudden they were a criminal for resisting arrest or disobeying a police officer. The police were creating criminals and damaging their relationship with communities.

Looking back on it there's no strong evidence that the policy was directly responsible for reduced gun violence. While gun violence did decline, correlation is not causation and there are other policies that likely had an impact, not to mention that gun violence continued to decline after the end of stop and frisk.

Chris22

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Re: What Would It Take for Bloomberg to Buy Your Vote?
« Reply #99 on: March 06, 2020, 09:18:30 AM »
It’s moot now, but what I don’t think people on the left realize about Bloomberg is that he is public enemy number 1 to the NRA and its millions of members, myself included. You can say he’s a moderate or Republican all day long, but NO ONE would inspire the 2A crowd to get out and vote for Trump like Bloomberg.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!