The Money Mustache Community
Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: Taran Wanderer on November 09, 2016, 01:44:30 AM
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I have deep concerns about Donald Trump becoming president of the United States. Based on his campaign, the potential worst case is frightful from many points of view - economic (tax cuts, debt explosion), foreign policy (American isolationism, Chinese and Russian military expansion), civil rights (limitation of press freedoms, further racial divides), climate change, and social issues (reduction in basic civility, scaled back women's rights). I could go on and on and on based on his own comments.
If the worst case is a descent into recession/depression, isolationism, elimination of civil liberties, and a slide toward World War III, then what would you consider a best case outcome?
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Following, because I've got to hope that there is some good to be had. Somehow.
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
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The best case is Trump actually "draining the swamp" and cutting through all the red tape and stop the wasteful spending on things that benefit only small but politically active groups because he just doesn't care if people get mad at him.
He could use his experience in dodging taxes to close the loopholes for the others using it.
Alternatively a positive thing may be that he could prove once and for all that this type of person should never again be anywhere near power, and he could inspire a new generation of leaders with integrity.
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We aren't the first country to try this experiment:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi
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The best case scenario is that it turns out that Trump was lying about all the promises that got him elected:
- Really big wall between the US and Mexico. Paid for by Mexico.
- Entry to the US will be restricted based on your religion.
- Muslims have to carry registration papers and ID cards at all times.
- New laws passed to muzzle the press.
- US military will be commanded to engage in war crimes (torture, murder of civilians, acts of terrorism).
- The US becomes very, very friendly with Putin's Russia.
If he was telling the truth at all during his campaign, the US is headed for some dark times.
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
Even if he wants to be a figurehead, who is going to be running the country? Pence (super religious...think the handmaiden's tale as his ideal country)...Chris Christie....Rudy Guiliani (crazy guiliani of the last few years, not semi-sane one of 2000)...the entire editorial wing of breitbart?
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does.
I think this is true. While I find the man to be personally repulsive and in possession of almost none of the qualities that I would want in a leader of a country, I'm not convinced that he's the conservative firebrand he's been elected as.
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you guys realize he cant just do whatever he wants congress and the supreme court have to support his decisions.
we're gonna get lower taxes ... b/c he wants to lower them and republicans like lower taxes. thats the only real thing he talked about on his campaign i see happening sooner than later.
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you guys realize he cant just do whatever he wants congress and the supreme court have to support his decisions.
we're gonna get lower taxes ... b/c he wants to lower them and republicans like lower taxes. thats the only real thing he talked about on his campaign i see happening sooner than later.
lower taxes in the short term until the spiraling deficit and debt caused by those lower taxes crash the economy......again
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our corporate tax rates drive corporations out so we dont get ANY of their taxes. lowering taxes for them brings them back.
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you guys realize he cant just do whatever he wants congress and the supreme court have to support his decisions.
Yeah, and a republican controlled house and senate will never support a republican president!
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you guys realize he cant just do whatever he wants congress and the supreme court have to support his decisions.
Yeah, and a republican controlled house and senate will never support a republican president!
i'm talking the extreme outlandish campaign issues he ran on like walls mexico will build and treating muslims like jewish people during the early days of hitlers reign.
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you guys realize he cant just do whatever he wants congress and the supreme court have to support his decisions.
Yeah, and a republican controlled house and senate will never support a republican president!
Considering that the Bushes distanced themselves and Paul Ryan couldn't even speak Trump's name--you know, Paul Ryan, the current Speaker of the House--among other things, the GOP's not a given in supporting Trump.
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I suggest you read Paul Ryan's blueprint it's the future.
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lower taxes in the short term until the spiraling deficit and debt caused by those lower taxes crash the economy......again
Fed deficit has never yet crashed the US economy.
US economy has been crashed by capital misallocation (bubbles) not fed debt.
Study up! Get the facts straight.
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you guys realize he cant just do whatever he wants congress and the supreme court have to support his decisions.
we're gonna get lower taxes ... b/c he wants to lower them and republicans like lower taxes. thats the only real thing he talked about on his campaign i see happening sooner than later.
lower taxes in the short term until the spiraling deficit and debt caused by those lower taxes crash the economy......again
So that's bad, but out of control spending in the past 8 years causing the deficit to double doesn't cause you concern?
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Well he's facing racketeering charges in less that three weeks. Will they have to impeach him for that or wait until he commits a crime while president.
That should take...5 minutes?
this man runs companies into the ground to make himself more wealthy. Do you really think he's not going to do that with our country?
All the promises have been a big smoke screen. Maybe once he realizes he doesn't have as. U h control over the money as he thought he would,, he'll get bored and go away.
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Well if the question is what would *I* consider to be a "successful" Trump presidency, I'd say he tones everything down about...hmmm...90 percent or so.
1) He would focus on (good) job creation more than anything else. Jobs jobs jobs.
2) ISIS. Figure out how to deal with them WITH other countries working together. Work with those "amazing" generals he's been talking with. F*ck them up however possible - that's something 99% of Americans can agree with.
3) Welfare state. I'm moderate, but I absolutely despise when people game the system or just totally fail to contribute to society. As a personal injury lawyer, I admit to seeing some of it first hand, not that I can do anything about the system as a whole. Yes I know the argument is that you need to fix the problems (teenage pregnancy, failure to graduate high school, lack of desire/ability to get a job), but I truly think some folks are raised to view "the government" as being responsible for paying them just for being a warm body.
If he was successful in creating tons of (good) jobs, struck huge blows to ISIS, and scaled back the welfare state, I'd consider it not a horrible presidency, although I'm sure the inevitable blows to women's reproductive rights, gay rights, the environment, etc., would be hard to ignore.
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you guys realize he cant just do whatever he wants congress and the supreme court have to support his decisions.
we're gonna get lower taxes ... b/c he wants to lower them and republicans like lower taxes. thats the only real thing he talked about on his campaign i see happening sooner than later.
lower taxes in the short term until the spiraling deficit and debt caused by those lower taxes crash the economy......again
So that's bad, but out of control spending in the past 8 years causing the deficit to double doesn't cause you concern?
Sigh, these have been posted before, but an Obama spending spree is just not true.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/01/07/the-story-behind-obama-and-the-national-debt-in-7-charts/
There are charts in there that reflect good and bad points of spending under Obama. The biggest thing it doesn't explain is WHY some things increased. The biggest driver was obviously the great recession and we can run around in circles talking about whether public spending to get out of that was the correct decisions. Most economists say it was, but to each his own. The big driver was the Feb 2010 law that Obama signed saying that if the government was going to spend something, it had to be paid for in the budget in dollars allocated. That had the effect of being sound business practice but also ending the hand waving part of spending. Remember those pesky little wars in Iraq and Afghanistan......put on credit card. They were never paid for. Obama put them in the budget so now we suddenly have a paper cost of 1-2 trillion where none exited before.
SO no, I don't see a lot of uncontrolled spending by Obama. Getting down into the weeds there is a lot of uncontrolled wasteful spending, mostly on pork products and military spending that the military doesn't want but some senator does. Of course there is our spending on healthcare and Social security which is high and could be lowered but few people in the legislature are brave enough to take on that fight.
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Well he's facing racketeering charges in less that three weeks. Will they have to impeach him for that or wait until he commits a crime while president.
That should take...5 minutes?
this man runs companies into the ground to make himself more wealthy. Do you really think he's not going to do that with our country?
All the promises have been a big smoke screen. Maybe once he realizes he doesn't have as. U h control over the money as he thought he would,, he'll get bored and go away.
Don't forget his court case in December for child rape.
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Well he's facing racketeering charges in less that three weeks. Will they have to impeach him for that or wait until he commits a crime while president.
That should take...5 minutes?
this man runs companies into the ground to make himself more wealthy. Do you really think he's not going to do that with our country?
All the promises have been a big smoke screen. Maybe once he realizes he doesn't have as. U h control over the money as he thought he would,, he'll get bored and go away.
Don't forget his court case in December for child rape.
Yeah, but that's a civil case, not a criminal one due to the statute of limitations.
Of course if it leads to questions of the disappearance of the other girl then maybe it will turn into one.
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http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/09/news/economy/donald-trump-means-for-your-money/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom
Okay, so I was reading about some of his proposals, which to me, he should have been talking about more! Hell, I didn't even know about them. Maybe it's my fault but I seriously didn't hear any discussion of them on the campaign trail or in the debates.
A few possible good ideas in here.
1) Letting parents deduct the FULL cost of childcare, up to the average in the state for a child that age. HUGE help to working parents.
2) 15-year cap on student loan payments, instead of 20. I'd need to read into that more, as it's possible that lower time frame would just result in forced higher payments during the 15 years.
3) Allowing folks (like me) who aren't offered health insurance at work to deduct their health care premiums! That would be a HUGE benefit to many families, including many small business owners, but again, if the negatives (higher premiums, less coverage, denials for pre-existings) outweigh this benefit, it's not really a net gain. Still, it will be interesting to follow.
And finally here are the tax brackets for comparison...
Current
Table 1. 2016 Taxable Income Brackets and Rates (Estimate)
Rate
Single Filers
Married Joint Filers
Head of Household Filers
10%
$0 to $9,275
$0 to $18,550
$0 to $13,250
15%
$9,275 to $37,650
$18,550 to $75,300
$13,250 to $50,400
25%
$37,650 to $91,150
$75,300 to $151,900
$50,400 to $130,150
28%
$91,150 to $190,150
$151,900 to $231,450
$130,150 to $210,800
33%
$190,150 to $413,350
$231,450 to $413,350
$210,800 to $413,350
35%
$413,350 to $415,050
$413,350 to $466,950
$413,350 to $441,000
39.6%
$415,050+
$466,950+
$441,000+
Trump's proposed
Brackets & Rates for Married-Joint filers:
Less than $75,000: 12%
More than $75,000 but less than $225,000: 25%
More than $225,000: 33%
*Brackets for single filers are ½ of these amounts
*EDIT* Ran some numbers. With a married filing jointly family earning $150,000, they would pay $29,042, but only $27,750 under Trump, for a savings of $1,292. Not huge, but at least it's a cut. And combined with deductions for privately purchased health insurance premiums and larger deductions for child care, that could all help many middle to upper middle class families.
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Maybe he won't do anything except insult people every day.
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Nick Miller you missed that the standard dedcution for married joint filers will go up from 12600 to 30k under his porposed plan.
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
Even if he wants to be a figurehead, who is going to be running the country? Pence (super religious...think the handmaiden's tale as his ideal country)...Chris Christie....Rudy Guiliani (crazy guiliani of the last few years, not semi-sane one of 2000)...the entire editorial wing of breitbart?
I think this is the most interesting question as well. He doesn't actually want to run the country, so it will be interesting to see who he chooses to be behind the scenes.
I'm not super worried about him leading a unified Republican Congress in economic or healthcare policy changes. I'm mostly worried about:
- him getting us nuked/nuking someone
- the Supreme Court
- him appointing alt right folks to anything
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Nick Miller you missed that the standard dedcution for married joint filers will go up from 12600 to 30k under his porposed plan.
Really? That's freakin' huge. We won't even be able to itemize this year (house half paid off so not a huge amount of mortgage interest), so increasing the standard would be a welcome change.
Why the hell didn't he talk more about these sorts of tax breaks on the campaign trail instead of insulting random groups of people? Well, I guess whatever he did worked so never mind!
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Nick Miller you missed that the standard dedcution for married joint filers will go up from 12600 to 30k under his porposed plan.
Really? That's freakin' huge. We won't even be able to itemize this year (house half paid off so not a huge amount of mortgage interest), so increasing the standard would be a welcome change.
Why the hell didn't he talk more about these sorts of tax breaks on the campaign trail instead of insulting random groups of people? Well, I guess whatever he did worked so never mind!
b/c those biggoted things won him the office now he can back peddle and get the more reasonable stuff done ....
those who think that he's going to overturn roe v wade and buiild a wall and kick out the muslims and persecute the LGBT community... really you really think thats going to happen. cmon now.
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Nick Miller you missed that the standard dedcution for married joint filers will go up from 12600 to 30k under his porposed plan.
Really? That's freakin' huge. We won't even be able to itemize this year (house half paid off so not a huge amount of mortgage interest), so increasing the standard would be a welcome change.
Why the hell didn't he talk more about these sorts of tax breaks on the campaign trail instead of insulting random groups of people? Well, I guess whatever he did worked so never mind!
He didn't talk about it because they are untenable. Look, he wants to drastically reduce revenue by reducing taxes while increasing government spending slightly. There is no way to balance that equation without 5%+ annual growth which pretty much everyone who knows economics says is impossible. So you get your tax cut, but sell out your kids and grandkids. Great trade.
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Nick Miller you missed that the standard dedcution for married joint filers will go up from 12600 to 30k under his porposed plan.
Really? That's freakin' huge. We won't even be able to itemize this year (house half paid off so not a huge amount of mortgage interest), so increasing the standard would be a welcome change.
Why the hell didn't he talk more about these sorts of tax breaks on the campaign trail instead of insulting random groups of people? Well, I guess whatever he did worked so never mind!
He didn't talk about it because they are untenable. Look, he wants to drastically reduce revenue by reducing taxes while increasing government spending slightly. There is no way to balance that equation without 5%+ annual growth which pretty much everyone who knows economics says is impossible. So you get your tax cut, but sell out your kids and grandkids. Great trade.
the current regime has double the deficit.
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He didn't talk about it because they are untenable. Look, he wants to drastically reduce revenue by reducing taxes while increasing government spending slightly. There is no way to balance that equation without 5%+ annual growth which pretty much everyone who knows economics says is impossible. So you get your tax cut, but sell out your kids and grandkids. Great trade.
the current regime has double the deficit.
What's that got to do with anything now? Reagan tripled the deficit.
You can't cut taxes and keep spending the same or the deficit will balloon even more. It just doesn't work unless the economy responds.
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Nick Miller you missed that the standard dedcution for married joint filers will go up from 12600 to 30k under his porposed plan.
Really? That's freakin' huge. We won't even be able to itemize this year (house half paid off so not a huge amount of mortgage interest), so increasing the standard would be a welcome change.
Why the hell didn't he talk more about these sorts of tax breaks on the campaign trail instead of insulting random groups of people? Well, I guess whatever he did worked so never mind!
Because
a) yes insulting people got his hateful, moronic base riled up enough to elect him.
b) those are massive tax cuts for rich people. Deducting something is only good if you pay a lot in taxes. If you're in the 0-15% bracket that's not much help is it? This is zero help to poor people who already pay little if any taxes and can't afford child care anyway.
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Nick Miller you missed that the standard dedcution for married joint filers will go up from 12600 to 30k under his porposed plan.
Really? That's freakin' huge. We won't even be able to itemize this year (house half paid off so not a huge amount of mortgage interest), so increasing the standard would be a welcome change.
Why the hell didn't he talk more about these sorts of tax breaks on the campaign trail instead of insulting random groups of people? Well, I guess whatever he did worked so never mind!
Because
a) yes insulting people got his hateful, moronic base riled up enough to elect him.
b) those are massive tax cuts for rich people. Deducting something is only good if you pay a lot in taxes. If you're in the 0-15% bracket that's not much help is it? This is zero help to poor people who already pay little if any taxes and can't afford child care anyway.
how is this 0 hoep to poor people they just got 30000 of their dollars to keep for free vs the 12600 in the current tax code.
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Nick Miller you missed that the standard dedcution for married joint filers will go up from 12600 to 30k under his porposed plan.
Really? That's freakin' huge. We won't even be able to itemize this year (house half paid off so not a huge amount of mortgage interest), so increasing the standard would be a welcome change.
Why the hell didn't he talk more about these sorts of tax breaks on the campaign trail instead of insulting random groups of people? Well, I guess whatever he did worked so never mind!
Because
a) yes insulting people got his hateful, moronic base riled up enough to elect him.
b) those are massive tax cuts for rich people. Deducting something is only good if you pay a lot in taxes. If you're in the 0-15% bracket that's not much help is it? This is zero help to poor people who already pay little if any taxes and can't afford child care anyway.
how is this 0 hoep to poor people they just got 30000 of their dollars to keep for free vs the 12600 in the current tax code.
that's not how the standard deduction works..
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Nick Miller you missed that the standard dedcution for married joint filers will go up from 12600 to 30k under his porposed plan.
Really? That's freakin' huge. We won't even be able to itemize this year (house half paid off so not a huge amount of mortgage interest), so increasing the standard would be a welcome change.
Why the hell didn't he talk more about these sorts of tax breaks on the campaign trail instead of insulting random groups of people? Well, I guess whatever he did worked so never mind!
Because
a) yes insulting people got his hateful, moronic base riled up enough to elect him.
b) those are massive tax cuts for rich people. Deducting something is only good if you pay a lot in taxes. If you're in the 0-15% bracket that's not much help is it? This is zero help to poor people who already pay little if any taxes and can't afford child care anyway.
how is this 0 hoep to poor people they just got 30000 of their dollars to keep for free vs the 12600 in the current tax code.
that's not how the standard deduction works..
really b/c if i make 30k and i have a 30k deduction i pay no taxes on that 30k how does it work where you are from.
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how is this 0 hoep to poor people they just got 30000 of their dollars to keep for free vs the 12600 in the current tax code.
that's not how the standard deduction works..
really b/c if i make 30k and i have a 30k deduction i pay no taxes on that 30k how does it work where you are from.
They wouldn't get $30k to keep vs $12k. They would not pay tax on it.
And as Romney pointed out 47% of people don't pay any federal income tax so any increase in deduction is meaningless to them.
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how is this 0 hoep to poor people they just got 30000 of their dollars to keep for free vs the 12600 in the current tax code.
that's not how the standard deduction works..
really b/c if i make 30k and i have a 30k deduction i pay no taxes on that 30k how does it work where you are from.
https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/calculators/taxcaster/
Plug in a couple filing as MFJ making 30k.
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http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/09/news/economy/donald-trump-means-for-your-money/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom
...
3) Allowing folks (like me) who aren't offered health insurance at work to deduct their health care premiums! That would be a HUGE benefit to many families, including many small business owners, but again, if the negatives (higher premiums, less coverage, denials for pre-existings) outweigh this benefit, it's not really a net gain. Still, it will be interesting to follow.
This is wonderful until you get sick, and are then denied coverage due to a preexisting condition.
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nope
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I will be VERY happy if Trump just stays alive. His record is like a loose cannon, sometimes on the left, sometimes on the right, and entirely for him. OK then.
His VP though, is a straight-right shooter on social and religious issues. He believes in conversion therapy. He has taken a stance against condoms.
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He has taken a stance against condoms.
About time someone took on the important issues facing the nation!
#waronrubber
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He has taken a stance against condoms.
About time someone took on the important issues facing the nation!
#waronrubber
Hey California rejected Prop 60, ensuring that porn stars will not be required to wear condoms on the job.
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
Great point about him being more left. I always thought of him as a liberal and was surprised to see him come out as a Republican. However, I think he may have changed parties more than once. I imagine he changed because that's the only path he could envision to the presidency. Dems would never have him or take him seriously. Two of his kids only registered as Republicans in the past year (they could not vote for him in the primaries because they forgot to change from Democrat to Republican).
By not providing any policy details, he was able to attract the uneducated by saying he'd make things better. No details. Nothing for them to read. He made it easy for them.
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
Great point about him being more left. I always thought of him as a liberal and was surprised to see him come out as a Republican. However, I think he may have changed parties more than once. I imagine he changed because that's the only path he could envision to the presidency. Dems would never have him or take him seriously. Two of his kids only registered as Republicans in the past year (they could not vote for him in the primaries because they forgot to change from Democrat to Republican).
By not providing any policy details, he was able to attract the uneducated by saying he'd make things better. No details. Nothing for them to read. He made it easy for them.
Yes, this is definitely true. He'll make things magically better, and it's someone else's fault and they don't look or act like you. I'm not sure how you build on this now that you're in power, or what big policies you try to enact.
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He has taken a stance against condoms.
About time someone took on the important issues facing the nation!
#waronrubber
Hey California rejected Prop 60, ensuring that porn stars will not be required to wear condoms on the job.
So that should make Pence happy. I assume it's because the man does not want his view of pornstar's penises obscured by anything..
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
Great point about him being more left. I always thought of him as a liberal and was surprised to see him come out as a Republican. However, I think he may have changed parties more than once. I imagine he changed because that's the only path he could envision to the presidency. Dems would never have him or take him seriously. Two of his kids only registered as Republicans in the past year (they could not vote for him in the primaries because they forgot to change from Democrat to Republican).
By not providing any policy details, he was able to attract the uneducated by saying he'd make things better. No details. Nothing for them to read. He made it easy for them.
Yes, this is definitely true. He'll make things magically better, and it's someone else's fault and they don't look or act like you. I'm not sure how you build on this now that you're in power, or what big policies you try to enact.
History has a few examples of what this looks like in practice, and none of them are particularly appealing.
I think Trump is too stupid and narcissistic to be a straight up con man (i.e, a secret democrat). I think he really is as hateful and awful person as he has been showing and he might try to enact some of this. After all I can't imagine he doesn't want to win again. This is the problem all BS-peddling populists face when in power. Heck, the Brexit idiots have the same issue. "We promised you cake and eating it too! Hey, turns out we'll get neither.."
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you guys realize he cant just do whatever he wants congress and the supreme court have to support his decisions.
we're gonna get lower taxes ... b/c he wants to lower them and republicans like lower taxes. thats the only real thing he talked about on his campaign i see happening sooner than later.
lower taxes in the short term until the spiraling deficit and debt caused by those lower taxes crash the economy......again
So that's bad, but out of control spending in the past 8 years causing the deficit to double doesn't cause you concern?
Are you concerned about an increase in private savings?
Are you concerned about rising money in company balances?
Because that are all the same things.
For every $ someone has, someone else needs to have a $ dept. And vice versa.
Its the most basic thing of money creation and double accounting. And so many people are literally blind to that fact.
The best that could happen is that Trump gets together with Putin. They drink a bit - okay, a lot - of Wodka, hunt a few bears, riding a few horses and that get down to stop playing Colliding Empires and actually work together.
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He has taken a stance against condoms.
About time someone took on the important issues facing the nation!
#waronrubber
Hey California rejected Prop 60, ensuring that porn stars will not be required to wear condoms on the job.
So that should make Pence happy. I assume it's because the man does not want his view of pornstar's penises obscured by anything..
Thanks for this! Been a depressing morning and this made me laugh.
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
I agree. It will be particularly interesting over the next 4 years (if he can make it that long without being impeached for something) for the Republican House and Senate majority. The RNC really dropped the ball.
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Well if the question is what would *I* consider to be a "successful" Trump presidency, I'd say he tones everything down about...hmmm...90 percent or so.
1) He would focus on (good) job creation more than anything else. Jobs jobs jobs.
2) ISIS. Figure out how to deal with them WITH other countries working together. Work with those "amazing" generals he's been talking with. F*ck them up however possible - that's something 99% of Americans can agree with.
3) Welfare state. I'm moderate, but I absolutely despise when people game the system or just totally fail to contribute to society. As a personal injury lawyer, I admit to seeing some of it first hand, not that I can do anything about the system as a whole. Yes I know the argument is that you need to fix the problems (teenage pregnancy, failure to graduate high school, lack of desire/ability to get a job), but I truly think some folks are raised to view "the government" as being responsible for paying them just for being a warm body.
If he was successful in creating tons of (good) jobs, struck huge blows to ISIS, and scaled back the welfare state, I'd consider it not a horrible presidency, although I'm sure the inevitable blows to women's reproductive rights, gay rights, the environment, etc., would be hard to ignore.
Ugh the Government should not be involved in "creating jobs." :(
Just hoping all the BS rhetoric he threw out during the election stops at the door when he takes the WH. Or now, that he's President-Elect.
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Ugh the Government should not be involved in "creating jobs." :(
The government is involved in creating jobs by writing policies that support job growth. Most people don't mean this in an alphabet soup depression-era program sort of job.
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His helicopter crashes into Trump tower on day 10
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His helicopter crashes into Trump tower on day 10
Pence as President seems even scarier to me.
I've decided if no nuclear weapons are launched in the next 4 years he will have exceeded my expectations. I've given up on the thought of human rights.
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Trump seems to really hate that other countries have better airports than we do. So maybe he'll bring back construction and manufacturing jobs by building palatial airports?
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His helicopter crashes into Trump tower on day 10
Pence as President seems even scarier to me.
I've decided if no nuclear weapons are launched in the next 4 years he will have exceeded my expectations. I've given up on the thought of human rights.
Yes this is what scares me as well and what the more "rational" Trump supporters seem to forget. Trump very well may be more liberal than he seems, but because of his inexperience and well documented laziness, it is hard not to suspect he will defer even more than usual to advisers on issues he doesn't particularly care about. He's already positioned a prominent climate change denier to oversee the EPA during his transition, and other potential cabinet appointees that have been mentioned are largely in that same vein. Police state supporting, anti-science, anti-civil rights wingnuts. Pence will also likely have unusual power for a VP in his own way, maybe not like Cheney, but definitely in pushing through horribly oppressive and anti-freedom initiatives.
Trump supporters need to understand that people like me would have been absolutely thrilled if Romney had run again and beaten Clinton, compared to this shit show. Hell, I would rather get 4 more years of GWB. Frankly, the only way I see this ending well is if Trump ends up actually taking the job seriously and pushing back when his wacko advisers (or even appointing sane ones, I dare to dream) try to demolish the rights and well-being of anyone not upper/middle class and white. That said, I choose to be optimistic for now, but it's not easy. Will happily admit Im wrong if somehow none of the above occurs.
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
Even if he wants to be a figurehead, who is going to be running the country? Pence (super religious...think the handmaiden's tale as his ideal country)...Chris Christie....Rudy Guiliani (crazy guiliani of the last few years, not semi-sane one of 2000)...the entire editorial wing of breitbart?
I think this is the most interesting question as well. He doesn't actually want to run the country, so it will be interesting to see who he chooses to be behind the scenes.
I'm not super worried about him leading a unified Republican Congress in economic or healthcare policy changes. I'm mostly worried about:
- him getting us nuked/nuking someone
- the Supreme Court
- him appointing alt right folks to anything
Why do we say "Alt right" instead of white supremacists these days?
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
Great point about him being more left. I always thought of him as a liberal and was surprised to see him come out as a Republican. However, I think he may have changed parties more than once. I imagine he changed because that's the only path he could envision to the presidency. Dems would never have him or take him seriously. Two of his kids only registered as Republicans in the past year (they could not vote for him in the primaries because they forgot to change from Democrat to Republican).
By not providing any policy details, he was able to attract the uneducated by saying he'd make things better. No details. Nothing for them to read. He made it easy for them.
Yes, this is definitely true. He'll make things magically better, and it's someone else's fault and they don't look or act like you. I'm not sure how you build on this now that you're in power, or what big policies you try to enact.
History has a few examples of what this looks like in practice, and none of them are particularly appealing.
I think Trump is too stupid and narcissistic to be a straight up con man (i.e, a secret democrat). I think he really is as hateful and awful person as he has been showing and he might try to enact some of this. After all I can't imagine he doesn't want to win again. This is the problem all BS-peddling populists face when in power. Heck, the Brexit idiots have the same issue. "We promised you cake and eating it too! Hey, turns out we'll get neither.."
I'm not saying that he is a secret Democrat now but pointing out that he was previously a Democrat.
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
Even if he wants to be a figurehead, who is going to be running the country? Pence (super religious...think the handmaiden's tale as his ideal country)...Chris Christie....Rudy Guiliani (crazy guiliani of the last few years, not semi-sane one of 2000)...the entire editorial wing of breitbart?
I think this is the most interesting question as well. He doesn't actually want to run the country, so it will be interesting to see who he chooses to be behind the scenes.
I'm not super worried about him leading a unified Republican Congress in economic or healthcare policy changes. I'm mostly worried about:
- him getting us nuked/nuking someone
- the Supreme Court
- him appointing alt right folks to anything
Why do we say "Alt right" instead of white supremacists these days?
Fair enough. I guess I think of them as overlapping but not identical. I'm no expert, but..
I think of the alt right as cultural conservatives who are particularly misogynistic and pretty united in their approach to social and economic policy (heavily anti-immigrant but also anti-woman and economically conservative). I think of them as operating mostly online. They seem very obsessed with everything being too PC and them being the vanguard out to stop the PC movement.
I think of white supremacists as less unified in economic policy, and more narrowly interested in racial politics. I think of them as generally older and operating in person with an organization.
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For my vantage point, a successful Trump presidency would include:
-No wars.
-Trump abandoning the racist, misogynistic, and xenophobic rhetoric of the campaign to focus on non-social domestic issues such as infrastructure.
-Not just repealing the ACA without a plan, but trying something else to control healthcare costs.
Alternatively, a breakdown in the relationship between Trump and the Republican Congress such that they could get nothing done would suit me fine.
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Having been exposed to Trump since the eighties, I can say that he goes much more to the left than people think he does. New York Republicans are generally like that, and Trump's really only a Republican in name. The true GOP is just as horrified that he got in as the Democrats are. He's always been good at sound bites and saying things that people want to hear. Not so much the Mexican wall and banning Muslims, but the whole "make America great again" thing. It doesn't matter that Trump has about as much in common with the average person who voted for him as I do with the Queen of England. He told them what they wanted to hear and promised he'd make things better. The media on both sides basically thumbed their noses at "average Americans" ... and the average American just told them to go fuck themselves.
Things are about to get REALLY interesting.
Even if he wants to be a figurehead, who is going to be running the country? Pence (super religious...think the handmaiden's tale as his ideal country)...Chris Christie....Rudy Guiliani (crazy guiliani of the last few years, not semi-sane one of 2000)...the entire editorial wing of breitbart?
I think this is the most interesting question as well. He doesn't actually want to run the country, so it will be interesting to see who he chooses to be behind the scenes.
I'm not super worried about him leading a unified Republican Congress in economic or healthcare policy changes. I'm mostly worried about:
- him getting us nuked/nuking someone
- the Supreme Court
- him appointing alt right folks to anything
Why do we say "Alt right" instead of white supremacists these days?
Those are the ones who know where the alt key is.
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His helicopter crashes into Trump tower on day 10
Pence as President seems even scarier to me.
I agree. As crazy as it sounds... I think I prefer Trump to most of the other Republican candidates that ran this time... except maybe Kasich and Paul.
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1) Reduction in the USA military presence abroad. No more US intervention in foreign affairs unless it directly threatens us.
2) Reduction in foreign aid- bring that money back home
3) Pass laws lowering taxes on money abroad so that corporations are more likely to repatriate it
4) Establish terms limits in Congress
5) Reduce/end the welfare state
6) Introduce legislation to reduce special interests and lobbying influence in elections in Washington
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1) Reduction in the USA military presence abroad. No more US intervention in foreign affairs unless it directly threatens us.
2) Reduction in foreign aid- bring that money back home
3) Pass laws lowering taxes on money abroad so that corporations are more likely to repatriate it
4) Establish terms limits in Congress
5) Reduce/end the welfare state
6) Introduce legislation to reduce special interests and lobbying influence in elections in Washington
If he got any of those things done he'd be the best President in United States history. Unfortunately McConnell has already ruled out 1, 4 and 6. I hope Trump has the balls to keep fighting the Republican establishment now that he's at the head of it and actively tries to primary out people who don't go for things he wants that are decent (like infrastructure spending and term limits).
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1) Don't start any wars
2) Don't let Russia and China gobble up territory
3) Don't forego our alliances
4) Don't leave people unable to gay-marry, have abortions, and publish what they want
5) Don't force american companies to backdoor their products and crash their values
In other words, basic shit. That's all I can hope for. Basic shit.
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I'm trying to put the best possible spin on a dangerous situation...
1. Replace Obamacare with something better. If you can't just fix it, go ahead and repeal it and call the new plan TrumpCare if that helps. Fix the problems with the ACA (inability to regulate private insurance companies that jack up rates, inability to negotiate drug prices, subsidy cliffs) without ruining the parts people like (preexisting conditions, age 26, no lifetime caps). I don't think the individual mandate matters, it was just included as a gift to the insurance companies to get preexisting conditions in there, so I'm fine with chucking it as long as we keep that. Do what the ACA was designed to do but then implemented rather poorly, which is offer more people affordable insurance. I think democrats could get on board with that, because basically everyone hates health insurance companies and their fucking lobbyist money. I'm not wed to Obama's plan even though I'm a bleeding liberal, I just want Americans to have access to viable healthcare. Right now it looks like Republicans don't want that at all, and I would hope Trump could fix that.
2. Spend money on infrastructure projects that support future economic growth. Trump and Clinton agreed on this point, and it's always been Congressional Republicans who stymied the effort because they wanted a payfor. I think that misses the point. You wouldn't refuse to drive to work just to save gas money, you willingly buy gas up front so that you can drive to your job where you make gobs of money. Power grids, roads, schools, these things pay dividends for generations. It's okay to borrow money from people who buy savings bonds to finance things that make America stronger. Someone please notify Paul Ryan.
3. Make only minor adjustments to foreign policy, without starting any wars or abandoning any allies. I think this one is pretty likely. Once he starts getting the regular intelligence briefings, he'll come to understand the careful balance the US strikes on the world stage. We spend money on foreign military operations because we think it is in America's best interest to have peace, to have oil, to have trade, to have stable regimes, to offer foreign aid and medicine to struggling countries. These are not issues that you can solve with a chantable slogan and you can't just stop interacting with the world. I'm hopeful he's smart enough to listen to the advisors who try to tell him not to just nuke anyone who insults him on twitter.
4. Offer something of substance to his ardent supporters from decimated rural areas. Bernie Sanders tapped into the same segment of the population, people from small towns where the factory or the mill closed and left everyone poverty stricken. He needs to tell those people that the global economy is always on the move, and those jobs aren't coming back. Offer them job training in new industries. Offer them financial incentives to relocate to places where there are jobs. Reframe the current welfare state, which basically pays people to look for work right now, as a student aid program that pays people to acquire new skills and then puts them into job placement programs. I don't care, go ahead and pay them to become subsistence farmers if that's what they want to do. But offer them some economic opportunity that comes with self-determination and dignity.
5. Make a scene about draining the swamp. He'll never get term limits or lobbyist money out of politics, but he could at least make it really fucking obvious that virtually every politician in DC is complicit in corporatist control of government. I'd love to see campaign ads in 2018 that show Trump calling out Mitch McConnell for being a shill.
6. Give up Twitter. Maybe lay off Rosie O'Donnell, try not to publicly call any women fat or ugly or stupid for the next four years. Everyone knows you're privately a huge dickhead, but could you at least pretend to have some manners when attending the funerals of fallen soldiers?
I couldn't think of any positive spin to put on a border wall or a muslim ban, sorry. Those are just stupid ideas that need to be quickly forgotten.
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Trump seems to really hate that other countries have better airports than we do. So maybe he'll bring back construction and manufacturing jobs by building palatial airports?
+1
La Guardia and JFK should be rebuilt out of solid gold-- http://www.dolcemag.com/wp-content/gallery/donald-trump/donaldtrump.jpg
and we can have a gold plated wall on the mexico border..
why not solid gold? Gold is a great conductor. If we electrify it it should keep the cattle in Texas from doing any damage to our side.
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I'm trying to put the best possible spin on a dangerous situation...
1. Replace Obamacare with something better. If you can't just fix it, go ahead and repeal it and call the new plan TrumpCare if that helps. Fix the problems with the ACA (inability to regulate private insurance companies that jack up rates, inability to negotiate drug prices, subsidy cliffs) without ruining the parts people like (preexisting conditions, age 26, no lifetime caps). I don't think the individual mandate matters, it was just included as a gift to the insurance companies to get preexisting conditions in there, so I'm fine with chucking it as long as we keep that. Do what the ACA was designed to do but then implemented rather poorly, which is offer more people affordable insurance. I think democrats could get on board with that, because basically everyone hates health insurance companies and their fucking lobbyist money. I'm not wed to Obama's plan even though I'm a bleeding liberal, I just want Americans to have access to viable healthcare. Right now it looks like Republicans don't want that at all, and I would hope Trump could fix that.
2. Spend money on infrastructure projects that support future economic growth. Trump and Clinton agreed on this point, and it's always been Congressional Republicans who stymied the effort because they wanted a payfor. I think that misses the point. You wouldn't refuse to drive to work just to save gas money, you willingly buy gas up front so that you can drive to your job where you make gobs of money. Power grids, roads, schools, these things pay dividends for generations. It's okay to borrow money from people who buy savings bonds to finance things that make America stronger. Someone please notify Paul Ryan.
3. Make only minor adjustments to foreign policy, without starting any wars or abandoning any allies. I think this one is pretty likely. Once he starts getting the regular intelligence briefings, he'll come to understand the careful balance the US strikes on the world stage. We spend money on foreign military operations because we think it is in America's best interest to have peace, to have oil, to have trade, to have stable regimes, to offer foreign aid and medicine to struggling countries. These are not issues that you can solve with a chantable slogan and you can't just stop interacting with the world. I'm hopeful he's smart enough to listen to the advisors who try to tell him not to just nuke anyone who insults him on twitter.
4. Offer something of substance to his ardent supporters from decimated rural areas. Bernie Sanders tapped into the same segment of the population, people from small towns where the factory or the mill closed and left everyone poverty stricken. He needs to tell those people that the global economy is always on the move, and those jobs aren't coming back. Offer them job training in new industries. Offer them financial incentives to relocate to places where there are jobs. Reframe the current welfare state, which basically pays people to look for work right now, as a student aid program that pays people to acquire new skills and then puts them into job placement programs. I don't care, go ahead and pay them to become subsistence farmers if that's what they want to do. But offer them some economic opportunity that comes with self-determination and dignity.
5. Make a scene about draining the swamp. He'll never get term limits or lobbyist money out of politics, but he could at least make it really fucking obvious that virtually every politician in DC is complicit in corporatist control of government. I'd love to see campaign ads in 2018 that show Trump calling out Mitch McConnell for being a shill.
6. Give up Twitter. Maybe lay off Rosie O'Donnell, try not to publicly call any women fat or ugly or stupid for the next four years. Everyone knows you're privately a huge dickhead, but could you at least pretend to have some manners when attending the funerals of fallen soldiers?
I couldn't think of any positive spin to put on a border wall or a muslim ban, sorry. Those are just stupid ideas that need to be quickly forgotten.
Beautiful!
The more time I spend thinking about this, it COULD be okay. I'm now just resigned to waiting and seeing what kind of president the misogynist egotist will be. Maybe he'll be fine. The ban on Muslims entering the country has already been removed from his website. Still talking about that damn wall, though.
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I'm trying to put the best possible spin on a dangerous situation...
1. Replace Obamacare with something better. If you can't just fix it, go ahead and repeal it and call the new plan TrumpCare if that helps. Fix the problems with the ACA (inability to regulate private insurance companies that jack up rates, inability to negotiate drug prices, subsidy cliffs) without ruining the parts people like (preexisting conditions, age 26, no lifetime caps). I don't think the individual mandate matters, it was just included as a gift to the insurance companies to get preexisting conditions in there, so I'm fine with chucking it as long as we keep that. Do what the ACA was designed to do but then implemented rather poorly, which is offer more people affordable insurance. I think democrats could get on board with that, because basically everyone hates health insurance companies and their fucking lobbyist money. I'm not wed to Obama's plan even though I'm a bleeding liberal, I just want Americans to have access to viable healthcare. Right now it looks like Republicans don't want that at all, and I would hope Trump could fix that.
2. Spend money on infrastructure projects that support future economic growth. Trump and Clinton agreed on this point, and it's always been Congressional Republicans who stymied the effort because they wanted a payfor. I think that misses the point. You wouldn't refuse to drive to work just to save gas money, you willingly buy gas up front so that you can drive to your job where you make gobs of money. Power grids, roads, schools, these things pay dividends for generations. It's okay to borrow money from people who buy savings bonds to finance things that make America stronger. Someone please notify Paul Ryan.
3. Make only minor adjustments to foreign policy, without starting any wars or abandoning any allies. I think this one is pretty likely. Once he starts getting the regular intelligence briefings, he'll come to understand the careful balance the US strikes on the world stage. We spend money on foreign military operations because we think it is in America's best interest to have peace, to have oil, to have trade, to have stable regimes, to offer foreign aid and medicine to struggling countries. These are not issues that you can solve with a chantable slogan and you can't just stop interacting with the world. I'm hopeful he's smart enough to listen to the advisors who try to tell him not to just nuke anyone who insults him on twitter.
4. Offer something of substance to his ardent supporters from decimated rural areas. Bernie Sanders tapped into the same segment of the population, people from small towns where the factory or the mill closed and left everyone poverty stricken. He needs to tell those people that the global economy is always on the move, and those jobs aren't coming back. Offer them job training in new industries. Offer them financial incentives to relocate to places where there are jobs. Reframe the current welfare state, which basically pays people to look for work right now, as a student aid program that pays people to acquire new skills and then puts them into job placement programs. I don't care, go ahead and pay them to become subsistence farmers if that's what they want to do. But offer them some economic opportunity that comes with self-determination and dignity.
5. Make a scene about draining the swamp. He'll never get term limits or lobbyist money out of politics, but he could at least make it really fucking obvious that virtually every politician in DC is complicit in corporatist control of government. I'd love to see campaign ads in 2018 that show Trump calling out Mitch McConnell for being a shill.
6. Give up Twitter. Maybe lay off Rosie O'Donnell, try not to publicly call any women fat or ugly or stupid for the next four years. Everyone knows you're privately a huge dickhead, but could you at least pretend to have some manners when attending the funerals of fallen soldiers?
I couldn't think of any positive spin to put on a border wall or a muslim ban, sorry. Those are just stupid ideas that need to be quickly forgotten.
This whole thing was great, but I wanted to emphasize a few things.
I worry about jobs. I worry that Trump with his failed businesses and all of the jobs that have gone overseas - that he, like many others, are looking backwards, not forwards.
The "good old days" of massive manufacturing here are gone. They aren't coming back. How do we replace them?
Well, I worry because one way to replace them is with innovation. You have to be EARLY FIRST and BEST.
So here we are with a Climate Change denier and Oil & Gas lover as future president. Besides "there goes the environment" we could be losing a HUGE opportunity to create jobs with alternative renewable energy. Thing is, other large countries like China and India are becoming energy hogs just like Americans. The O&G isn't going to last forever. If we can be the FIRST and get a five year head start, there's serious money to be made to sell our energy savers to other countries before they reverse-engineer it all.
Then there's infrastructure work, which Obama tried to work on, but was blocked. Yes yes, that's "government creating jobs" but I consider it a win/win if our roads and bridges are safe AND people get to work and eat and have a roof.
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I'm trying to put the best possible spin on a dangerous situation...
1. Replace Obamacare with something better. If you can't just fix it, go ahead and repeal it and call the new plan TrumpCare if that helps. Fix the problems with the ACA (inability to regulate private insurance companies that jack up rates, inability to negotiate drug prices, subsidy cliffs) without ruining the parts people like (preexisting conditions, age 26, no lifetime caps). I don't think the individual mandate matters, it was just included as a gift to the insurance companies to get preexisting conditions in there, so I'm fine with chucking it as long as we keep that. Do what the ACA was designed to do but then implemented rather poorly, which is offer more people affordable insurance. I think democrats could get on board with that, because basically everyone hates health insurance companies and their fucking lobbyist money. I'm not wed to Obama's plan even though I'm a bleeding liberal, I just want Americans to have access to viable healthcare. Right now it looks like Republicans don't want that at all, and I would hope Trump could fix that.
2. Spend money on infrastructure projects that support future economic growth. Trump and Clinton agreed on this point, and it's always been Congressional Republicans who stymied the effort because they wanted a payfor. I think that misses the point. You wouldn't refuse to drive to work just to save gas money, you willingly buy gas up front so that you can drive to your job where you make gobs of money. Power grids, roads, schools, these things pay dividends for generations. It's okay to borrow money from people who buy savings bonds to finance things that make America stronger. Someone please notify Paul Ryan.
3. Make only minor adjustments to foreign policy, without starting any wars or abandoning any allies. I think this one is pretty likely. Once he starts getting the regular intelligence briefings, he'll come to understand the careful balance the US strikes on the world stage. We spend money on foreign military operations because we think it is in America's best interest to have peace, to have oil, to have trade, to have stable regimes, to offer foreign aid and medicine to struggling countries. These are not issues that you can solve with a chantable slogan and you can't just stop interacting with the world. I'm hopeful he's smart enough to listen to the advisors who try to tell him not to just nuke anyone who insults him on twitter.
4. Offer something of substance to his ardent supporters from decimated rural areas. Bernie Sanders tapped into the same segment of the population, people from small towns where the factory or the mill closed and left everyone poverty stricken. He needs to tell those people that the global economy is always on the move, and those jobs aren't coming back. Offer them job training in new industries. Offer them financial incentives to relocate to places where there are jobs. Reframe the current welfare state, which basically pays people to look for work right now, as a student aid program that pays people to acquire new skills and then puts them into job placement programs. I don't care, go ahead and pay them to become subsistence farmers if that's what they want to do. But offer them some economic opportunity that comes with self-determination and dignity.
5. Make a scene about draining the swamp. He'll never get term limits or lobbyist money out of politics, but he could at least make it really fucking obvious that virtually every politician in DC is complicit in corporatist control of government. I'd love to see campaign ads in 2018 that show Trump calling out Mitch McConnell for being a shill.
6. Give up Twitter. Maybe lay off Rosie O'Donnell, try not to publicly call any women fat or ugly or stupid for the next four years. Everyone knows you're privately a huge dickhead, but could you at least pretend to have some manners when attending the funerals of fallen soldiers?
I couldn't think of any positive spin to put on a border wall or a muslim ban, sorry. Those are just stupid ideas that need to be quickly forgotten.
This whole thing was great, but I wanted to emphasize a few things.
I worry about jobs. I worry that Trump with his failed businesses and all of the jobs that have gone overseas - that he, like many others, are looking backwards, not forwards.
The "good old days" of massive manufacturing here are gone. They aren't coming back. How do we replace them?
Well, I worry because one way to replace them is with innovation. You have to be EARLY FIRST and BEST.
So here we are with a Climate Change denier and Oil & Gas lover as future president. Besides "there goes the environment" we could be losing a HUGE opportunity to create jobs with alternative renewable energy. Thing is, other large countries like China and India are becoming energy hogs just like Americans. The O&G isn't going to last forever. If we can be the FIRST and get a five year head start, there's serious money to be made to sell our energy savers to other countries before they reverse-engineer it all.
Then there's infrastructure work, which Obama tried to work on, but was blocked. Yes yes, that's "government creating jobs" but I consider it a win/win if our roads and bridges are safe AND people get to work and eat and have a roof.
Exactly. This is one of the biggest reasons I'm sad he's been elected. Because the people who voted for him because they need better jobs and better opportunities are not going to see them. Far from it.
I'll be fine. His working class supporters won't. But they will keep supporting him because he tells them pretty little lies. And makes them feel listened to. Which is the biggest irony of all.
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Then there's infrastructure work, which Obama tried to work on, but was blocked. Yes yes, that's "government creating jobs" but I consider it a win/win if our roads and bridges are safe AND people get to work and eat and have a roof.
Exactly. This is one of the biggest reasons I'm sad he's been elected. Because the people who voted for him because they need better jobs and better opportunities are not going to see them. Far from it.
I'll be fine. His working class supporters won't. But they will keep supporting him because he tells them pretty little lies. And makes them feel listened to. Which is the biggest irony of all.
Yeah, Mitch McConnell has already made clear that he does not think Trump's plan to invest in infrastructure is one that Congress will be supporting.
As shitty as I feel about the results of this election, I'll still have my work's healthcare plan, my private 4-month maternity leave, my tolerant and diverse workplace, my 401(k) and my job at the end of this. My family that supported him is not going to have well-paying jobs for high school grads, or an end to terrorism, or term limits on politicians, or functioning social security, or anything else they want.
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The "good old days" of massive manufacturing here are gone. They aren't coming back. How do we replace them?
Well, I worry because one way to replace them is with innovation. You have to be EARLY FIRST and BEST.
So here we are with a Climate Change denier and Oil & Gas lover as future president. Besides "there goes the environment" we could be losing a HUGE opportunity to create jobs with alternative renewable energy. Thing is, other large countries like China and India are becoming energy hogs just like Americans. The O&G isn't going to last forever. If we can be the FIRST and get a five year head start, there's serious money to be made to sell our energy savers to other countries before they reverse-engineer it all.
I agree, but we were not doing a good job of this before Trump was elected either. So maybe we need to find solutions to this outside of the political process.
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The "good old days" of massive manufacturing here are gone. They aren't coming back. How do we replace them?
Well, I worry because one way to replace them is with innovation. You have to be EARLY FIRST and BEST.
So here we are with a Climate Change denier and Oil & Gas lover as future president. Besides "there goes the environment" we could be losing a HUGE opportunity to create jobs with alternative renewable energy. Thing is, other large countries like China and India are becoming energy hogs just like Americans. The O&G isn't going to last forever. If we can be the FIRST and get a five year head start, there's serious money to be made to sell our energy savers to other countries before they reverse-engineer it all.
I agree, but we were not doing a good job of this before Trump was elected either. So maybe we need to find solutions to this outside of the political process.
Right. Because of the Republican side. And we just gave them control of everything. So, yeah...
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I hope Trump goes nuclear on f'cking McConnell. I'd love to see Trump bring the full force of his assholeness down on that little shit.
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I hope Trump goes nuclear on f'cking McConnell. I'd love to see Trump bring the full force of his assholeness down on that little shit.
Although it is early days yet, I think if Trump actually shakes the system up and pushes for some populist things (like infrastructure/jobs program) it will end up being decent.
I think what will happen, as we're seeing with his Cabinet lists, is that he is just going to be a George W Bush but with even less of a say in what actually happens. I think he'll just rubber stamp all of the normal republican proposals. He wanted to win, he won, I don't think he's that interested in actually governing.
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The "good old days" of massive manufacturing here are gone. They aren't coming back. How do we replace them?
Well, I worry because one way to replace them is with innovation. You have to be EARLY FIRST and BEST.
So here we are with a Climate Change denier and Oil & Gas lover as future president. Besides "there goes the environment" we could be losing a HUGE opportunity to create jobs with alternative renewable energy. Thing is, other large countries like China and India are becoming energy hogs just like Americans. The O&G isn't going to last forever. If we can be the FIRST and get a five year head start, there's serious money to be made to sell our energy savers to other countries before they reverse-engineer it all.
Unfortunately for you I think that time is already past.
China is number 1 in both solar and wind energy.
Sometimes a strongly centralized government has it upsides, if the members have to come together in one of the thickest smogs of the world :D
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I'd say his impeachment, but then Pence would be in charge which is likely worse.
I suppose he could surprise us all and go truly anti-establishment. Smack the shit out of the Republican congress and make them actually do something to help people. He could make his infrastructure initiatives green jobs and maybe in some intended way do something to help the climate.
Then he could actually apologize to all those women and other groups he alienated during the campaign and then work to help them. He could actually prove that he cares about someone except himself. I have seen zero evidence that this is the case.
Honestly, I hate his guts and every time I see him I want kick him in the nuts. I don't accept him as my president, but for the sake of the good people in this country, I hope that he is successful.
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Honestly, I hate his guts and every time I see him I want kick him in the nuts. I don't accept him as my president, but for the sake of the good people in this country, I hope that he is successful.
You kind of have to accept him as your President, because that's what America's (slightly fucked up system that rewards rural minorities) decided.
Think of Trump like your racist uncle who comes to Thanksgiving every year. You may hate his guts and everything he says, but he's still family. America is a family, even the ugly parts. Your obligation is to support the family's success, regardless of who the current senior member is.
You don't have to support the stupid shit he says, but you should still do what you think is best for the family. Be nice to people. Lend a hand. Try to steer the ship in the right direction in whatever way you can. Be respectful even when he is not.
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Then there's infrastructure work, which Obama tried to work on, but was blocked. Yes yes, that's "government creating jobs" but I consider it a win/win if our roads and bridges are safe AND people get to work and eat and have a roof.
Exactly. This is one of the biggest reasons I'm sad he's been elected. Because the people who voted for him because they need better jobs and better opportunities are not going to see them. Far from it.
I'll be fine. His working class supporters won't. But they will keep supporting him because he tells them pretty little lies. And makes them feel listened to. Which is the biggest irony of all.
Yeah, Mitch McConnell has already made clear that he does not think Trump's plan to invest in infrastructure is one that Congress will be supporting.
As shitty as I feel about the results of this election, I'll still have my work's healthcare plan, my private 4-month maternity leave, my tolerant and diverse workplace, my 401(k) and my job at the end of this. My family that supported him is not going to have well-paying jobs for high school grads, or an end to terrorism, or term limits on politicians, or functioning social security, or anything else they want.
To be fair, neither major political party has a very good track record of helping that particular section of the population with job prospects.
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Honestly, I hate his guts and every time I see him I want kick him in the nuts. I don't accept him as my president, but for the sake of the good people in this country, I hope that he is successful.
You kind of have to accept him as your President, because that's what America's (slightly fucked up system that rewards rural minorities) decided.
Think of Trump like your racist uncle who comes to Thanksgiving every year. You may hate his guts and everything he says, but he's still family. America is a family, even the ugly parts. Your obligation is to support the family's success, regardless of who the current senior member is.
You don't have to support the stupid shit he says, but you should still do what you think is best for the family. Be nice to people. Lend a hand. Try to steer the ship in the right direction in whatever way you can. Be respectful even when he is not.
Sounds like this could be what many Trump voters used as justification to vote for him.
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Sounds like this could be what many Trump voters used as justification to vote for him.
No one wants their racist uncle to plan Thanksgiving at the KKK clubhouse. Except 48% of Americans, apparently.
He's still family, but he absolutely should not have any power. While he does hold power, our obligation is to try to keep him from doing too much damage.
I'm trying really hard to remain optimistic about this whole thing. So far, I don't see much to be hopeful about.
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Sounds like this could be what many Trump voters used as justification to vote for him.
No one wants their racist uncle to plan Thanksgiving at the KKK clubhouse. Except 48% of Americans, apparently.
He's still family, but he absolutely should not have any power. While he does hold power, our obligation is to try to keep him from doing too much damage.
I'm trying really hard to remain optimistic about this whole thing. So far, I don't see much to be hopeful about.
Perhaps the racist uncle is still the best mechanic or cook or the moat successful leader of the family business, so while he sputs terribly offensive shit, when it cimes to getting things done and taking care of the family, he's still better than the cousin who is super nice but completely inept. (To continue the metaphor)
I mean, mqybe not, but its what weve got. No one wants another four years of obstruction, so i hope the losing aide gets over it and works with the winners. Its not perfect, but we've seen the other way, and it wasn't great.
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Perhaps the racist uncle is still the best mechanic or cook or the moat successful leader of the family business, so while he sputs terribly offensive shit, when it cimes to getting things done and taking care of the family, he's still better than the cousin who is super nice but completely inept.
In this case, the racist uncle is also a dishonest double-dealer who doesn't pay taxes and has gone bankrupt four times while somehow managing to grow richer and richer every time. He's a classic New York fast-talking con man, and he's only looking to enrich himself and his closest allies at the expense of everyone else he supposedly represents.
He'll screw you, too. Just wait.
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It's so nice to read all of these replies and know that I am not alone in my pessimism...
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Perhaps the racist uncle is still the best mechanic or cook or the moat successful leader of the family business, so while he sputs terribly offensive shit, when it cimes to getting things done and taking care of the family, he's still better than the cousin who is super nice but completely inept.
In this case, the racist uncle is also a dishonest double-dealer who doesn't pay taxes and has gone bankrupt four times while somehow managing to grow richer and richer every time. He's a classic New York fast-talking con man, and he's only looking to enrich himself and his closest allies at the expense of everyone else he supposedly represents.
He'll screw you, too. Just wait.
Of course he will try. But that was any politician that has run in the past decade or so (possibly with the exception of Bernie Sanders). So I could hardly hold that against Trump specifically.
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To be fair, neither major political party has a very good track record of helping that particular section of the population with job prospects.
Hah! I always find it hilarous if that is said by people who say that the government should get fucking out of the way, and if not I have my guns!
Creating jobs is not even government responsibility, even if most try to do that because of the stupid voters.
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Creating jobs is not even government responsibility, even if most try to do that because of the stupid voters.
I think that creating jobs absolutely is a government responsibility. It's arguably the only government responsibility.
Specifically, the government exists to create taxable income, so that it can pay for the things required to keep the nation generating more taxable income. This is why governments want population growth and economic prosperity and free trade and happy citizens. If the economy falls apart, the nation will be unable to defend itself or provide basic services like water and power and roads that make the economy possible in the first place.
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For my vantage point, a successful Trump presidency would include:
-No wars.
-Trump abandoning the racist, misogynistic, and xenophobic rhetoric of the campaign to focus on non-social domestic issues such as infrastructure.
-Not just repealing the ACA without a plan, but trying something else to control healthcare costs.
Alternatively, a breakdown in the relationship between Trump and the Republican Congress such that they could get nothing done would suit me fine.
Not just abandoning that rhetoric but speaking out against those taking photos of themselves with Confederate flags, etc, etc.
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I'd say his impeachment, but then Pence would be in charge which is likely worse.
I think Pence will be in charge anyway.
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Creating jobs is not even government responsibility, even if most try to do that because of the stupid voters.
I think that creating jobs absolutely is a government responsibility. It's arguably the only government responsibility.
Specifically, the government exists to create taxable income, so that it can pay for the things required to keep the nation generating more taxable income. This is why governments want population growth and economic prosperity and free trade and happy citizens. If the economy falls apart, the nation will be unable to defend itself or provide basic services like water and power and roads that make the economy possible in the first place.
This was also quite a debate among the founding fathers. (See also the economics of Jackson vs Hamilton).
This is explicitly written into the FOMC (aka "The Fed", a pseudo-governmental agency) - their charter is to moderation inflation consistent with full employment.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/money_12848.htm
Arguably, it's also part of the responsibility of congress, but their policies are optimized for their own states.
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Creating jobs is not even government responsibility, even if most try to do that because of the stupid voters.
I think that creating jobs absolutely is a government responsibility. It's arguably the only government responsibility.
Specifically, the government exists to create taxable income, so that it can pay for the things required to keep the nation generating more taxable income. This is why governments want population growth and economic prosperity and free trade and happy citizens. If the economy falls apart, the nation will be unable to defend itself or provide basic services like water and power and roads that make the economy possible in the first place.
All you mention is not creating jobs, it is making the country prosper and protecting its citizens. Which can happen without creating jobs.
@mtnrider:
The same principle here: The target is a growing economy, not creating jobs. Historically, when there were less people then empty land, that meant growing population from which the biggest possible part should work. Unfortunately, what works for a 1 billion low-tech population not necessarily works for a 7-billion consumption population in the long run.
And btw: Full employment just means that those who want a job get one. Not that jobs have to be created.
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Successful = no nuclear detonations in the next four years; no global economic collapse in the next four years.
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Sounds like this could be what many Trump voters used as justification to vote for him.
No one wants their racist uncle to plan Thanksgiving at the KKK clubhouse. Except 48% of Americans, apparently.
He's still family, but he absolutely should not have any power. While he does hold power, our obligation is to try to keep him from doing too much damage.
I'm trying really hard to remain optimistic about this whole thing. So far, I don't see much to be hopeful about.
Thanks Sol for your level headed posts on this subject. I too agree that we need to switch into damage control mode instead of wallowing around refusing to come to terms with what has happened. If we move quickly and strategically we can identify opportunities to mitigate damage. If we shut down, retreat into our corners, and refuse to adopt a survivor mentality it will certainly make things worse off. Standing on principle may feel nice, but it can be a terrible idea if it costs us opportunities to help others or protect human rights. I suspect that too many of us are still so overwhelmed with fear or anger that we are not thinking clearly.
I am finding that my anxiety level is increasing and not decreasing over time despite my natural pragmatism and optimistic-realistic personality. The appointment of Bannon has me extremely concerned, but other than do my own small part (donated to planned parenthood, continue to foster strong relationships with my Trump voting family/friends, etc) I really feel impotent and helpless.
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Has anyone read Trump's 100 day action plan?
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days
I don't care for Trump but I admit I was impressed with most of this.
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Successful = The Republic is not destroyed and he leaves power voluntarily.
Despots usually come to power, do illegal things, then decide they can never leave due to all the illegal acts done in office.
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I'd say his impeachment, but then Pence would be in charge which is likely worse.
I think Pence will be in charge anyway.
I take it back. I think Bannon and Pence will be in charge anyway. Didn't take long to get to the rise of the white supremacists.
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Successful = The Republic is not destroyed and he leaves power voluntarily.
Despots usually come to power, do illegal things, then decide they can never leave due to all the illegal acts done in office.
Successful in THEIR eyes? Enact a white supremacist agenda that aligns with Putin and Le Pen and other global leaders.
"Bannon’s support for European far-right parties runs far deeper than his interest in Marion Maréchal-Le Pen or the National Front. He brags about his international Breitbart operation as “the platform” for the American alt-right, and has for years been thinking globally, with an affinity for the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP), Alternative for Germany (AfD), and the Party for Freedom Party (PVV) in the Netherlands, all of which have earned glowing coverage on the pages of Breitbart."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/13/trump-s-man-stephen-bannon-flirts-with-a-le-pen.html
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Has anyone read Trump's 100 day action plan?
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days
I don't care for Trump but I admit I was impressed with most of this.
Why were you impressed? That's an honest questions, I'm seeking some feedback on what about this list excites you.
Because my reading of that list is pretty depressing. Some highlights:
1. Congressional term limits. This is tantamount to asking the entire Republican leadership to resign from Congress. Everyone knows this proposal is DOA.
2. Federal hiring freeze. I'm a federal employee, and we're constantly getting slammed for failing to complete assigned tasks on time, despite the fact that we're already operating with a 25% vacancy rate. If you want your government to provide the services you pay for, you need to let them hire people to do the work. We're externally funded so it's not a budget issue, it's purely an arbitrary cap on headcount that is keeping us from getting stuff done.
3. Withdraw from NAFTA and the TPP. I don't understand this plan at all. I have yet to find a single economist, foreign or domestic, who thinks this is a good idea. Free trade in support of economic growth is the bedrock principal of the GOP, and he's gutting it.
4. Open national parks and wildlife preserves to exploratory oil drilling. WTF, man, who supports oil rigs at Yellowstone?
5. Withdraw from all UN Climate Change panels, and withhold all funding. Riiight, because global climate change is a Chinese hoax.
6. Pass the End Offshoring Act. You mean the one Democrats tried to pass and that Republicans have been filibustering since 2010? Why does he think Congress is suddenly going to support things they've been fighting against for years? I'm not sure he understands how our government works.
7. Divert federal education funding to charter and religious schools. So much for the separation of church and state, amirite?
8. Repeal the ACA and move everyone to HSA plans, and convert medicare to block grants. We have several active threads discussing the problems and pitfalls with this plan.
9. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. I still can't believe anyone actually takes this seriously. How, exactly, does this happen?
10. Institute a variety of ethics reforms to stop the revolving door between politics and lobbying (aka "drain the swamp"). I would normally be happy about this, except his entire transition team is drawn from the very swamp he supposedly wants to drain, so I think he's already violated this one and he's only been POTUS-elect for 6 days. I fear that this is just the first of many examples of "Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength" style public pronouncements that are directly contradicted by everything he actually does. Like he says he'll reduce the deficit, but he's cutting taxes and raising expenditures. Everyone is thrilled because they can't connect the dots, they just see lower tax rates (yay!) and more spending (yay!) and they believe him when he says these have balanced the budget (yay again! he's magic!).
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1. Congressional term limits. This is tantamount to asking the entire Republican leadership to resign from Congress. Everyone knows this proposal is DOA.
While I agree with much of what you've said, I think one way to make the above happen is by providing an exception for current members of congress until they resign or are defeated. This would allow the people in power to keep it (for a while) and make the newer generation of politicians term-limited (I believe the suggestion is 2 terms for Senators and 6 terms for Representatives - for a total of 12 years for any member of Congress).
This obviously causes it's own problems because some current members can simply "out last" a couple of iterations of the new crop and would therefore be super-politicians with even more clout, but in the long run I think it's a way to get it passed that will eventually be beneficial to the country.
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Has anyone read Trump's 100 day action plan?
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days
I don't care for Trump but I admit I was impressed with most of this.
Why were you impressed? That's an honest questions, I'm seeking some feedback on what about this list excites you.
Because my reading of that list is pretty depressing. Some highlights:
1. Congressional term limits. This is tantamount to asking the entire Republican leadership to resign from Congress. Everyone knows this proposal is DOA.
2. Federal hiring freeze. I'm a federal employee, and we're constantly getting slammed for failing to complete assigned tasks on time, despite the fact that we're already operating with a 25% vacancy rate. If you want your government to provide the services you pay for, you need to let them hire people to do the work. We're externally funded so it's not a budget issue, it's purely an arbitrary cap on headcount that is keeping us from getting stuff done.
3. Withdraw from NAFTA and the TPP. I don't understand this plan at all. I have yet to find a single economist, foreign or domestic, who thinks this is a good idea. Free trade in support of economic growth is the bedrock principal of the GOP, and he's gutting it.
4. Open national parks and wildlife preserves to exploratory oil drilling. WTF, man, who supports oil rigs at Yellowstone?
5. Withdraw from all UN Climate Change panels, and withhold all funding. Riiight, because global climate change is a Chinese hoax.
6. Pass the End Offshoring Act. You mean the one Democrats tried to pass and that Republicans have been filibustering since 2010? Why does he think Congress is suddenly going to support things they've been fighting against for years? I'm not sure he understands how our government works.
7. Divert federal education funding to charter and religious schools. So much for the separation of church and state, amirite?
8. Repeal the ACA and move everyone to HSA plans, and convert medicare to block grants. We have several active threads discussing the problems and pitfalls with this plan.
9. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. I still can't believe anyone actually takes this seriously. How, exactly, does this happen?
10. Institute a variety of ethics reforms to stop the revolving door between politics and lobbying (aka "drain the swamp"). I would normally be happy about this, except his entire transition team is drawn from the very swamp he supposedly wants to drain, so I think he's already violated this one and he's only been POTUS-elect for 6 days. I fear that this is just the first of many examples of "Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength" style public pronouncements that are directly contradicted by everything he actually does. Like he says he'll reduce the deficit, but he's cutting taxes and raising expenditures. Everyone is thrilled because they can't connect the dots, they just see lower tax rates (yay!) and more spending (yay!) and they believe him when he says these have balanced the budget (yay again! he's magic!).
Agreed. Nothing presented here would help us move into the 21st century. It's going backwards.
And wow, listening to him on 60 Minutes last night. He is not a very bright bulb.
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Has anyone read Trump's 100 day action plan?
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days
I don't care for Trump but I admit I was impressed with most of this.
Why were you impressed? That's an honest questions, I'm seeking some feedback on what about this list excites you.
Because my reading of that list is pretty depressing. Some highlights:
1. Congressional term limits. This is tantamount to asking the entire Republican leadership to resign from Congress. Everyone knows this proposal is DOA.
2. Federal hiring freeze. I'm a federal employee, and we're constantly getting slammed for failing to complete assigned tasks on time, despite the fact that we're already operating with a 25% vacancy rate. If you want your government to provide the services you pay for, you need to let them hire people to do the work. We're externally funded so it's not a budget issue, it's purely an arbitrary cap on headcount that is keeping us from getting stuff done.
3. Withdraw from NAFTA and the TPP. I don't understand this plan at all. I have yet to find a single economist, foreign or domestic, who thinks this is a good idea. Free trade in support of economic growth is the bedrock principal of the GOP, and he's gutting it.
4. Open national parks and wildlife preserves to exploratory oil drilling. WTF, man, who supports oil rigs at Yellowstone?
5. Withdraw from all UN Climate Change panels, and withhold all funding. Riiight, because global climate change is a Chinese hoax.
6. Pass the End Offshoring Act. You mean the one Democrats tried to pass and that Republicans have been filibustering since 2010? Why does he think Congress is suddenly going to support things they've been fighting against for years? I'm not sure he understands how our government works.
7. Divert federal education funding to charter and religious schools. So much for the separation of church and state, amirite?
8. Repeal the ACA and move everyone to HSA plans, and convert medicare to block grants. We have several active threads discussing the problems and pitfalls with this plan.
9. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. I still can't believe anyone actually takes this seriously. How, exactly, does this happen?
10. Institute a variety of ethics reforms to stop the revolving door between politics and lobbying (aka "drain the swamp"). I would normally be happy about this, except his entire transition team is drawn from the very swamp he supposedly wants to drain, so I think he's already violated this one and he's only been POTUS-elect for 6 days. I fear that this is just the first of many examples of "Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength" style public pronouncements that are directly contradicted by everything he actually does. Like he says he'll reduce the deficit, but he's cutting taxes and raising expenditures. Everyone is thrilled because they can't connect the dots, they just see lower tax rates (yay!) and more spending (yay!) and they believe him when he says these have balanced the budget (yay again! he's magic!).
The swamp is overflowing. I'm most concerned about the Supreme Court, climate change, separation of church and state and women reproductive rights.
It took eight years for Pres. Obama to recover from Bush's depression. Now this. That's why we can't have nice things.
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I listened to Obama's press conference today. He was thrown some pointed questions about Trump's picks (Steve Bannon of Breitbart), Trumps qualifications, and some of Trump's harsh policy announcements (deport 2 million immigrants). Obama was nothing but a class act and emphasized that he and his staff will make sure there is an easy transition for Trump's team - he continually side-stepped the pointed questions and said it was not for him to assess the incoming talent and that democracy spoke.
He did point out that Trump will have an easier transition than he did as the economy was shedding 750k jobs a month, financial system was in lockdown, the auto industry was on the brink, and housing was at rock bottom.
Now - there has been continual job growth for two years, the auto loans were paid back, housing is ticking upwards, the unemployment rate is hovering around 4.9% (down from 10%), and 23 million folks now have health insurance that did not before the ACA.
Needless to say - Trump will have an easier time of it. But I doubt he'll show the intelligence of Obama and the class.
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Trump will have an easier time of it. But I doubt he'll show the intelligence of Obama and the class.
Even Trump's most ardent supporters recognize that "class" has never been his strong suit. That's part of the attraction, I think. They're tired of well-spoken and well-educated leaders who think deeply about important issues and try to promote equality. They want somebody who will burp on TV and "grab 'em by the pussy" and tell Angela Merkel she's fat, because that's who we are as a country and we apparently want those qualities reflected in our leaders.
The rest of the world has had this "ugly American" stereotype for 20 years now. We're just finally living up to the hype.
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Nice analysis of the first 100 days, Sol. I am enjoying the responses to this thread. I for one will be surprised if we can make it through with no invasions, no nuclear detonations, no global recession, no re-segregation, no environmental devastation, and a peaceful transition out.
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+1 and no more pussy grabbing.
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3. Withdraw from NAFTA and the TPP. I don't understand this plan at all. I have yet to find a single economist, foreign or domestic, who thinks this is a good idea. Free trade in support of economic growth is the bedrock principal of the GOP, and he's gutting it.
Then you need to avert your eyes away from the neolibs and to those who make their models after the real world and not those who get angry when teh real world does not work according to their models. ;)
I mostly know the european side, so here it is:
The best study the EU could bring on predicted 0.3% growth, in 10 years, so 0,03% per year for a decade. And that study was heavily flawd.
But the main point is that TPP is not about trade. Everything that is about trade could be done by existing gremiums. TPP is about destroying peoples rights and protections. In German its "nicht-tarifäre Handelshemmnisse" - something that hinders trade that has nothing to to with customs tariffs or taxes.
Instead its about things like "towns cannot prevent their water getting privatised". Something you should know what that means if you look to Detroit. Or GMO. The treaty would outlaw laws forbidding them. (Especially now that all the bad results of the GMO model start to show is insane if you ask me, not to mention the undermining of the demiocracy)
Countries could (and would) be ordered to pay huge sums by private courts payed by the industry if they pass laws to protect people just because that prevents (no, COULD prevent) some sales.
Regarding NAFTA, lots of piliticians in Canada have said that NAFTA (which is not even as bad as TTP) was an error, including the current prime minister if I am right. Not to mention the results of those and similar treaties to Mexico and african countries.
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As an outsider, I would say a successful Trump presidency would be one where he keeps things going as they are going, and kind of babysits the US until early 2021 to release it into more capable hands again.
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As an outsider, I would say a successful Trump presidency would be one where he keeps things going as they are going, and kind of babysits the US until early 2021 to release it into more capable hands again.
That is a long time to wait for any improvements or changes in the way things are going.
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A sucessful Trump presidency would be what Michael Moore wrote here:
http://boingboing.net/2016/11/14/michael-moores-to-do-list-f.html
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A sucessful Trump presidency would be what Michael Moore wrote here:
http://boingboing.net/2016/11/14/michael-moores-to-do-list-f.html
is this a joke. cmon.
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A sucessful Trump presidency would be what Michael Moore wrote here:
http://boingboing.net/2016/11/14/michael-moores-to-do-list-f.html
is this a joke. cmon.
I don't know, I thought this line was pretty funny: Liberals feel aimless and powerless, falling all over each other trying to figure out what happened. Like teenagers at a party that went off the rails, some are locked in the bathroom crying, some are fighting amongst themselves, others are telling everyone it's going to be fine, and some are standing on the kitchen table yelling, trying to restore order in futility
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He did point out that Trump will have an easier transition than he did as the economy was shedding 750k jobs a month, financial system was in lockdown, the auto industry was on the brink, and housing was at rock bottom.
Now - there has been continual job growth for two years, the auto loans were paid back, housing is ticking upwards, the unemployment rate is hovering around 4.9% (down from 10%), and 23 million folks now have health insurance that did not before the ACA.
Needless to say - Trump will have an easier time of it. But I doubt he'll show the intelligence of Obama and the class.
Realistically, the economy is at the end of a long recovery. It'll go south in the first 2 years of Trump's Presidency. Trump and team will bring out their tired policies in order to fix it, and that won't work.
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He did point out that Trump will have an easier transition than he did as the economy was shedding 750k jobs a month, financial system was in lockdown, the auto industry was on the brink, and housing was at rock bottom.
Now - there has been continual job growth for two years, the auto loans were paid back, housing is ticking upwards, the unemployment rate is hovering around 4.9% (down from 10%), and 23 million folks now have health insurance that did not before the ACA.
Needless to say - Trump will have an easier time of it. But I doubt he'll show the intelligence of Obama and the class.
Realistically, the economy is at the end of a long recovery. It'll go south in the first 2 years of Trump's Presidency. Trump and team will bring out their tired policies in order to fix it, and that won't work.
I think market timing is at least as bad as Trump supporting. :D
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I don't know, I thought this line was pretty funny: Liberals feel aimless and powerless, falling all over each other trying to figure out what happened. Like teenagers at a party that went off the rails, some are locked in the bathroom crying, some are fighting amongst themselves, others are telling everyone it's going to be fine, and some are standing on the kitchen table yelling, trying to restore order in futility
Seriously that is exactly what is happening. And so far, no one seems to be listening to those trying to restore order or those who are attempting to think strategically. Worse, people are attacking, blaming, and generally trying to derail the more strategic and pragmatic ones.
It really reminds me of a real life sociopolitical version of that fire drill scene in The Office...
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I don't know, I thought this line was pretty funny: Liberals feel aimless and powerless, falling all over each other trying to figure out what happened. Like teenagers at a party that went off the rails, some are locked in the bathroom crying, some are fighting amongst themselves, others are telling everyone it's going to be fine, and some are standing on the kitchen table yelling, trying to restore order in futility
Seriously that is exactly what is happening. And so far, no one seems to be listening to those trying to restore order or those who are attempting to think strategically. Worse, people are attacking, blaming, and generally trying to derail the more strategic and pragmatic ones.
It really reminds me of a real life sociopolitical version of that fire drill scene in The Office...
I don't disagree.
Obligatory link to The Office fire drill. (https://vimeo.com/136822167)
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Looking at the newest appointments it's hard not to believe that everything is circling the drain pretty quickly now.
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I don't know, I thought this line was pretty funny: Liberals feel aimless and powerless, falling all over each other trying to figure out what happened. Like teenagers at a party that went off the rails, some are locked in the bathroom crying, some are fighting amongst themselves, others are telling everyone it's going to be fine, and some are standing on the kitchen table yelling, trying to restore order in futility
Seriously that is exactly what is happening. And so far, no one seems to be listening to those trying to restore order or those who are attempting to think strategically. Worse, people are attacking, blaming, and generally trying to derail the more strategic and pragmatic ones.
It really reminds me of a real life sociopolitical version of that fire drill scene in The Office...
I don't disagree.
Obligatory link to The Office fire drill. (https://vimeo.com/136822167)
That is hilarious. I'm at work and have to know, what happened to the actual fire he set?
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Successful = no nuclear detonations in the next four years; no global economic collapse in the next four years.
Sorry to re-awaken this thread, but...... I couldn't help it!!!
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Successful = no nuclear detonations in the next four years; no global economic collapse in the next four years.
Sorry to re-awaken this thread, but...... I couldn't help it!!!
So, success? Yay?
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Successful = no nuclear detonations in the next four years; no global economic collapse in the next four years.
Sorry to re-awaken this thread, but...... I couldn't help it!!!
We still have 7 months left in this term.
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I'll go on the record: Trump has been exposed by every crisis as unprepared and corrupt. He delivered the tax cut and the judges that the conservative movement hoped for, but his loyalty test has substituted for any measure of competence among those who are allowed to advance within the Republican party.
The twin health and economic crisis we are enduring right now is particularly ill-suited to a man who seems incapable of establishing credibility outside of conservative media.
He's probabably still got even odds of winning re-election, because that's who we are right now.
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Interesting necropost.
You all aren't going to like this, but I'll put it out there: from the perspective of someone who is profoundly apolitical the President has been the gift that keeps on giving. Given my rock bottom expectations for performance, I'm OK when a President hands me a tax cut on the one hand and doesn't get the country into WWIII on the other.
But it gets better. The president has been exhibit "A" through "Z" of the failures of partisan politics in this country. In a country of 320 million people and after spending billions of dollars and millions of man-hours on an election, this is who floated to the top. He is living validation of my apolitical views.
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Interesting necropost.
You all aren't going to like this, but I'll put it out there: from the perspective of someone who is profoundly apolitical the President has been the gift that keeps on giving. Given my rock bottom expectations for performance, I'm OK when a President hands me a tax cut on the one hand and doesn't get the country into WWIII on the other.
But it gets better. The president has been exhibit "A" through "Z" of the failures of partisan politics in this country. In a country of 320 million people and after spending billions of dollars and millions of man-hours on an election, this is who floated to the top. He is living validation of my apolitical views.
I mean, I think straight white dudes can enjoy this spectacle from a distance in a way that others can’t...
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Trouble is, what happens in the US doesnt stay in the US. It has repercussions for the whole world. What bothers me the most is the sanctioning of depravity and corruption, the utter lack of moral integrity, faith, and humanity of the Trump regime.
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Interesting necropost.
You all aren't going to like this, but I'll put it out there: from the perspective of someone who is profoundly apolitical the President has been the gift that keeps on giving. Given my rock bottom expectations for performance, I'm OK when a President hands me a tax cut on the one hand and doesn't get the country into WWIII on the other.
But it gets better. The president has been exhibit "A" through "Z" of the failures of partisan politics in this country. In a country of 320 million people and after spending billions of dollars and millions of man-hours on an election, this is who floated to the top. He is living validation of my apolitical views.
I mean, I think straight white dudes can enjoy this spectacle from a distance in a way that others can’t...
This.
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Interesting necropost.
You all aren't going to like this, but I'll put it out there: from the perspective of someone who is profoundly apolitical the President has been the gift that keeps on giving. Given my rock bottom expectations for performance, I'm OK when a President hands me a tax cut on the one hand and doesn't get the country into WWIII on the other.
But it gets better. The president has been exhibit "A" through "Z" of the failures of partisan politics in this country. In a country of 320 million people and after spending billions of dollars and millions of man-hours on an election, this is who floated to the top. He is living validation of my apolitical views.
I mean, I think straight white dudes can enjoy this spectacle from a distance in a way that others can’t...
"Enjoy" is too strong of a term. "Accept" is more accurate. I accept that there are rulers and there are the ruled, and that I'm in the second group. I accept that there is a partisan political duopoly in the US that provides ever worse results over time. I accept that there are millions who believe that time spent in support of one or the other political faction will somehow provide better results in the future, with little historical evidence over the past several decades that it does. I accept that there are also millions who also believe that race, gender, sexual preference, and a sort of amorphous idea of privilege are primary driving forces in society rather than class and economics. I accept that politics for many is a sort of secular substitute for religion.
I accept a lot of not-so-happy things, but I can't say I particularly enjoy them.
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Interesting necropost.
You all aren't going to like this, but I'll put it out there: from the perspective of someone who is profoundly apolitical the President has been the gift that keeps on giving. Given my rock bottom expectations for performance, I'm OK when a President hands me a tax cut on the one hand and doesn't get the country into WWIII on the other.
But it gets better. The president has been exhibit "A" through "Z" of the failures of partisan politics in this country. In a country of 320 million people and after spending billions of dollars and millions of man-hours on an election, this is who floated to the top. He is living validation of my apolitical views.
I mean, I think straight white dudes can enjoy this spectacle from a distance in a way that others can’t...
"Enjoy" is too strong of a term. "Accept" is more accurate. I accept that there are rulers and there are the ruled, and that I'm in the second group. I accept that there is a partisan political duopoly in the US that provides ever worse results over time. I accept that there are millions who believe that time spent in support of one or the other political faction will somehow provide better results in the future, with little historical evidence over the past several decades that it does. I accept that there are also millions who also believe that race, gender, sexual preference, and a sort of amorphous idea of privilege are primary driving forces in society rather than class and economics. I accept that politics for many is a sort of secular substitute for religion.
I accept a lot of not-so-happy things, but I can't say I particularly enjoy them.
People of my minority ethnic group have been forcibly deported by the US government, regardless of citizenship status, during two separate periods in the last century (under Hoover and Eisenhower, both Republicans). Our ethnic group is one of the most maligned by the Trump administration. But sure, go ahead and dismiss such concerns and discomfort as “amorphous” partisan politics and enjoy the temporary tax cut.
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Interesting necropost.
You all aren't going to like this, but I'll put it out there: from the perspective of someone who is profoundly apolitical the President has been the gift that keeps on giving. Given my rock bottom expectations for performance, I'm OK when a President hands me a tax cut on the one hand and doesn't get the country into WWIII on the other.
But it gets better. The president has been exhibit "A" through "Z" of the failures of partisan politics in this country. In a country of 320 million people and after spending billions of dollars and millions of man-hours on an election, this is who floated to the top. He is living validation of my apolitical views.
I mean, I think straight white dudes can enjoy this spectacle from a distance in a way that others can’t...
"Enjoy" is too strong of a term. "Accept" is more accurate. I accept that there are rulers and there are the ruled, and that I'm in the second group. I accept that there is a partisan political duopoly in the US that provides ever worse results over time. I accept that there are millions who believe that time spent in support of one or the other political faction will somehow provide better results in the future, with little historical evidence over the past several decades that it does. I accept that there are also millions who also believe that race, gender, sexual preference, and a sort of amorphous idea of privilege are primary driving forces in society rather than class and economics. I accept that politics for many is a sort of secular substitute for religion.
I accept a lot of not-so-happy things, but I can't say I particularly enjoy them.
People of my minority ethnic group have been forcibly deported by the US government, regardless of citizenship status, during two separate periods in the last century (under Hoover and Eisenhower, both Republicans). Our ethnic group is one of the most maligned by the Trump administration. But sure, go ahead and dismiss such concerns and discomfort as “amorphous” partisan politics and enjoy the temporary tax cut.
Part of what is so striking about this post from @OtherJen is that I have like 3+ candidates of ethnic groups that could be described by this.
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Interesting necropost.
You all aren't going to like this, but I'll put it out there: from the perspective of someone who is profoundly apolitical the President has been the gift that keeps on giving. Given my rock bottom expectations for performance, I'm OK when a President hands me a tax cut on the one hand and doesn't get the country into WWIII on the other.
But it gets better. The president has been exhibit "A" through "Z" of the failures of partisan politics in this country. In a country of 320 million people and after spending billions of dollars and millions of man-hours on an election, this is who floated to the top. He is living validation of my apolitical views.
I mean, I think straight white dudes can enjoy this spectacle from a distance in a way that others can’t...
"Enjoy" is too strong of a term. "Accept" is more accurate. I accept that there are rulers and there are the ruled, and that I'm in the second group. I accept that there is a partisan political duopoly in the US that provides ever worse results over time. I accept that there are millions who believe that time spent in support of one or the other political faction will somehow provide better results in the future, with little historical evidence over the past several decades that it does. I accept that there are also millions who also believe that race, gender, sexual preference, and a sort of amorphous idea of privilege are primary driving forces in society rather than class and economics. I accept that politics for many is a sort of secular substitute for religion.
I accept a lot of not-so-happy things, but I can't say I particularly enjoy them.
People of my minority ethnic group have been forcibly deported by the US government, regardless of citizenship status, during two separate periods in the last century (under Hoover and Eisenhower, both Republicans). Our ethnic group is one of the most maligned by the Trump administration. But sure, go ahead and dismiss such concerns and discomfort as “amorphous” partisan politics and enjoy the temporary tax cut.
Part of what is so striking about this post from @OtherJen is that I have like 3+ candidates of ethnic groups that could be described by this.
In my case, I was referring to Mexican Repatriation and Operation Wetback.
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Strangely, I am connected via facebook with many people of Hispanic origin who are supporters of Trump. He did better among Latinx voters than Mitt Romney.
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Strangely, I am connected via facebook with many people of Hispanic origin who are supporters of Trump. He did better among Latinx voters than Mitt Romney.
Yeah, many of my relatives voted for Trump because republican pro-life tough-talker blah blah. They've all stopped praising him on social media recently, and they've completely ignored his dismissal of COVID-19 as a hoax. The July family reunion was canceled back in March.
Many of us are ignorant about our own history because this wasn't taught in schools or by our families. Apparently the Mexican/Mexican-American population in Detroit decreased by 90% in the 1930s due to deportation (https://stateofopportunity.michiganradio.org/post/how-thousands-mexican-workers-were-sent-away-michigan-help-diego-rivera). My grandparents lived in Detroit as newlyweds and new parents during that period. I'm not actually sure how our family made it through that round, especially as my grandmother wasn't a US citizen. It does, however, explain why my grandparents only taught English to their children and tried to assimilate them into white culture as much as possible.
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Yeah, many of my relatives voted for Trump because republican pro-life tough-talker blah blah.
I have a close (white) relative who is pro-Trump, even though she's married to an illegal resident (or "undocumented", if you prefer) from Mexico. I just don't get it. I ask, "Don't you realize Trump is doing everything he can to have your husband deported?" She essentially answers, "Yeah, but Trump is Making America Great Again" (I'm paraphrasing, she doesn't literally say that, but it's the basic idea). It's all part of the disconnect we witness where Trump voters support him even though he is absolutely working against their interests (see: farmers, manufacturers, Red-state voters who are the primary beneficiaries of welfare, etc.).
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Yeah, many of my relatives voted for Trump because republican pro-life tough-talker blah blah.
I have a close (white) relative who is pro-Trump, even though she's married to an illegal resident (or "undocumented", if you prefer) from Mexico. I just don't get it. I ask, "Don't you realize Trump is doing everything he can to have your husband deported?" She essentially answers, "Yeah, but Trump is Making America Great Again" (I'm paraphrasing, she doesn't literally say that, but it's the basic idea). It's all part of the disconnect we witness where Trump voters support him even though he is absolutely working against their interests (see: farmers, manufacturers, Red-state voters who are the primary beneficiaries of welfare, etc.).
There are also a lot of wealthy people who vote democrat even though the republican tax breaks give them a lot of money. I actually appreciate people who vote for what is in their eyes best for the country even though it is not best for them personally.
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Yeah, many of my relatives voted for Trump because republican pro-life tough-talker blah blah.
I have a close (white) relative who is pro-Trump, even though she's married to an illegal resident (or "undocumented", if you prefer) from Mexico. I just don't get it. I ask, "Don't you realize Trump is doing everything he can to have your husband deported?" She essentially answers, "Yeah, but Trump is Making America Great Again" (I'm paraphrasing, she doesn't literally say that, but it's the basic idea). It's all part of the disconnect we witness where Trump voters support him even though he is absolutely working against their interests (see: farmers, manufacturers, Red-state voters who are the primary beneficiaries of welfare, etc.).
There are also a lot of wealthy people who vote democrat even though the republican tax breaks give them a lot of money. I actually appreciate people who vote for what is in their eyes best for the country even though it is not best for them personally.
I think it is a very different level if you think "I vote for part of the money I don't need going to help people who need help" and "He will screw over my life completely, but at least the economy will be better of" or whatever it is when they talk about a Great America.
Disclaimer: For historical reason, this German is always wary when "Great" is connected with a contry name.
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Last night Peter Navarro made the statement that the China deal had been scuttled, and stock futures dropped like a rock. Within an hour both Larry Kudlow and the President himself had indicated that the trade deal was still on, so now they're back up. Question is, who was buying during that dip?
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There are also a lot of wealthy people who vote democrat even though the republican tax breaks give them a lot of money. I actually appreciate people who vote for what is in their eyes best for the country even though it is not best for them personally.
I think it is a very different level if you think "I vote for part of the money I don't need going to help people who need help" and "He will screw over my life completely, but at least the economy will be better of" or whatever it is when they talk about a Great America.
Disclaimer: For historical reason, this German is always wary when "Great" is connected with a contry name.
No kidding. Giving up another 10% of our income above $100k is nothing compared to, say, seeing your spouse deported or losing your health insurance when you're on kidney dialysis.
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Last night Peter Navarro made the statement that the China deal had been scuttled, and stock futures dropped like a rock. Within an hour both Larry Kudlow and the President himself had indicated that the trade deal was still on, so now they're back up. Question is, who was buying during that dip?
Maybe, after the futures tanked, Trump realized the mistake and altered course. He is particularly sensitive to the market right now.