What are your dog restrictions?

[sol]

Relationships are complicated.  Emotions even more so.

I'm sure you'll get many people saying don't consider it, but if you do, my only thought would be that you should set clear boundaries/guidelines.

Make it clear the dog restrictions aren't happening (ever).  And push back that "move in" time.  Way back.  Until you see major progress on the anger issues.

Either way, good luck.  We're rooting for you!

Someone didn't finish reading the thread.

[arebelspy]

Someone didn't finish reading the thread.

...is it you?

Read the last 3 posts before yours (and you'll see my post was a reply to her latest, not to the original post).  ;)

[sunnyca]

Thanks arebelspy.

In a way, I feel like I won't respect myself if I give him another chance. Because, really, is there ever a reason to act like that, no matter how angry you are? 

I went over to his place tonight to have dinner and see the kids. And for a few hours leading up to going over there and while I was there, I was stressed and uncomfortable. Because I hadn't been there since the incident, and I ultimately had to leave after the kids were in bed. And now I'm posting at midnight to figure out what to do.

[arebelspy]

Because, really, is there ever a reason to act like that, no matter how angry you are? 

No.

I mean, the best thing, in my opinion, with only the small amount of information we have, is to cut it off.  Done.  Better for you, for your dog, and hopefully for him (if he sees a consequence like that, in the future he might be better with his anger towards his kids, animals, future SOs, etc.).

But that takes a lot of strength.  I can't fault anyone for giving someone they love another chance, even when it's not deserved.

Whichever you decide to do, it'll be tough.  It's a no-win situation, that he put you in, and that's not fair.  I'm sorry.

[SeanMC]

Thanks arebelspy.

In a way, I feel like I won't respect myself if I give him another chance. Because, really, is there ever a reason to act like that, no matter how angry you are? 

I went over to his place tonight to have dinner and see the kids. And for a few hours leading up to going over there and while I was there, I was stressed and uncomfortable. Because I hadn't been there since the incident, and I ultimately had to leave after the kids were in bed. And now I'm posting at midnight to figure out what to do.

It does sound hard, and it does sound like it will take strength to move past.

Honestly, what you are saying sounds like an early marker for being in a potentially abusive relationship/with a potential abuser. Please google and look this up, if you are not otherwise familiar with the characteristics. The thing is - these aren't easy situations and partners who can be abusive are not awful all the time, often escalate slowly over time, and do lots of little things that make you feel like you are the one who is overreacting.

I'm sure a bunch of people will comment here and say 'why are you still even talking to this guy?' and your gut feelings (the anger he displayed, having self-respect) suggest that you know that too. In practice, though, it's not easy listening to that voice.

I hope that you can find some resources or someone to talk to (a therapist? a support group? even the right type of friend?) who can help you take care of yourself and do what's best for you.

[GuitarStv]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

To be honest, I'm not doing that great. He was in a temper when he kicked my dog, and he's extremely sorry now.  And it's hard, because I do still love him, and his kids, and in a way, I do want to give him another chance. I know it's probably the wrong thing to do, and I'm afraid that he'll do something like that again, but... I don't know.

Fuck that guy.

You shouldn't get multiple chances with abuse.  If it has happened once, it will happen again . . . it's just a matter of time.  You can't control the past, but now that you know exactly what kind of person he is it's your choice if you want to put yourself (and those you protect) in a situation where it happens again.

[iris lily]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

To be honest, I'm not doing that great. He was in a temper when he kicked my dog, and he's extremely sorry now.  And it's hard, because I do still love him, and his kids, and in a way, I do want to give him another chance. I know it's probably the wrong thing to do, and I'm afraid that he'll do something like that again, but... I don't know.

Seriously, OP, how long have you known him? How has he handled other times of frustration, anger, etc? I do not believe that he has never given you reason to think he deals with frustration in an unacceptable manmer

Kicking "at" a dog, is one thing. Kicking the dog is something else. Not sure which one he did, but if he actually kicked your dog YOU ARE A FOOL to put yourself and dog in that situation.

If he kicked AT the dog, he is still acting in a juvenile way. Why is this attractive to you? Do you want a man, or a petulant boy?

Do not  be a foolish woman for luuurv. Previous posters are right, his behavior is a classic marker for an abuser. Do you have any understanding of that?

The practical thing to do if you do not give him up is to continue to date, but do not move in. continue to  to observe how he handles frustration, what he does when he is angry when you do not do what he wants you to do. I think that if you are honest with yourself, you will realize that hes not a good partner and yo are settling.

[Spork]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

To be honest, I'm not doing that great. He was in a temper when he kicked my dog, and he's extremely sorry now.  And it's hard, because I do still love him, and his kids, and in a way, I do want to give him another chance. I know it's probably the wrong thing to do, and I'm afraid that he'll do something like that again, but... I don't know.

Everyone who has ever been through a breakup with someone they love absolutely understands your feelings.  And (in retrospect) I think most of us agree it is the wrong thing to do.

You're not going to immediately end your feelings for him.  But if you really want advice from random strangers: Don't go back.  Seriously.  You've gotten a window into his persona.

I have been in fiery, temper-filled relationships. I have been in loving "boring" relationships where we literally have not had a fight in over 20 years.  I will ALWAYS choose the "boring" relationships now.

[cheddarpie]

No no no no no no no.

Absolutely do not go back.

This is how the cycle of abuse works. This is my brother in law exactly, and it will only get worse. He will apologize, prey on your insecurities, tell you how much he loves you, and it will happen all over again when he feels like he can't control you (or your dog).

This is just the beginning -- get out now, find a good therapist to help you with the complicated grieving process that comes with leaving an abuser you love, and take care of yourself. A "temper" that involves physical violence is just not,never no way no how acceptable.

[sunnyca]

To answer one question- yes, he did kick the dog. Not enkugh to do any damage, but enough to make her yelp.

I understand that I shouldn't go back. I really do. And we have a fair number of problems besides just the thing that triggered his anger last week (which he did apologize for, as well). He doesn't like my dog, but I will admit, his ex drives me crazy.  Mainly with the fact that they constantly have scheduling changes that she asks for, always wants him to do stuff around the house, etc etc. I don't like it, and I feel like he's being enabling, and it's a source of arguments. And I'm wondering if maybe frustration with that issue was part of what set him off.

I guess I'm hoping that it's possible for him to change.

[MrsDinero]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

To be honest, I'm not doing that great. He was in a temper when he kicked my dog, and he's extremely sorry now.  And it's hard, because I do still love him, and his kids, and in a way, I do want to give him another chance. I know it's probably the wrong thing to do, and I'm afraid that he'll do something like that again, but... I don't know.

What is he going to do about controlling his anger in the future? Is he going to go see a therapist or take anger management classes?  What happens if he kicks the dog again, but is again very sorry?  Is resorting to physical violence ever "ok" because "he was in a temper"? 

I ask because the reality is there is a very close link between violence towards animals and domestic abuse.  None of us would want to you to be in a situation where you are in danger. 

[GuitarStv]

And I'm wondering if maybe frustration with that issue was part of what set him off.

It doesn't matter what set him off.  There is always going to be something bad that happens in life.  What matters is how a person responds to those challenges.

It's very important because these responses are deeply ingrained in who a person is, and are very slow/difficult to change for most.  Don't stay with someone expecting them to change.  It's not likely to happen, and you will get hurt along the way.

[cheddarpie]

He will not change.

There is no way to emphasize this enough. He. Will. Not. Change.

Only you have the power to change the situation, by getting out. It will be hard and you will grieve the relationship because you love him, but a year from now you will realize what a bullet you dodged.

I would highly recommend a clean break cutting all ties with no contact. It's hard, but it works.

[SeanMC]

And I'm wondering if maybe frustration with that issue was part of what set him off.

It doesn't matter what set him off.  There is always going to be something bad that happens in life.  What matters is how a person responds to those challenges.

It's very important because these responses are deeply ingrained in who a person is, and are very slow/difficult to change for most.  Don't stay with someone expecting them to change.  It's not likely to happen, and you will get hurt along the way.

You CAN NOT CHANGE HIM. You are describing a textbook situation for domestic abuse. The only way he will change is if HE accepts that HE needs anger management counseling and puts in the hard work to change HIS behavior. You CAN NOT do this for him.

Abusers apologize or are remorseful after.

Abusers make you feel like you are responsible for their reactions and emotional state. You did not "set him off." You are not responsible for how he acts in anger, even if he was frustrated, even if you were frustrated, even if you were arguing.

Abusers are often charming and otherwise fun or kind to be around.

Abusers are specifically attractive to people who want to 'help' their partner or 'fix' them. They have a problem (e.g., temper, anger, etc.) and they appeal to your desire to be needed or to feel special.

Please,  please speak to someone, get counseling, and seek help so you can figure out how to be in a healthy relationship. This is not healthy. You cannot fix him or change him. You did not make him kick your dog so hard that she yelped. The next time he could seriously injure your dog or kill her. The next time he could kick YOU.

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.

[Meowmalade]

Please read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker-- it's always a highly recommended book to recognize the warning signs of abuse and also how to deal with it.  Breakups are always hard, but it will be much harder and messier (and possibly a risk to your safety) if you're enmeshed and do it later.  Take good care of yourself, and please listen to everyone supporting you and being on your side.

[pbkmaine]

If you go back, might as well just kill your dog now and save the poor thing some suffering.

[former player]

If you go back, might as well just kill your dog now and save the poor thing some suffering.

Even if this man never raises another hand or foot to your dog, if you spend time with him you are either forcing your dog to spend time with someone who has deliberately hurt her or you are forcing her to spend unnecessary time alone while you are with him.  Neither is fair on her.  Even if you overrule your concern for yourself, you have no right to do that for your dog.

[asiljoy]

He will not change.

There is no way to emphasize this enough. He. Will. Not. Change.

Only you have the power to change the situation, by getting out. It will be hard and you will grieve the relationship because you love him, but a year from now you will realize what a bullet you dodged.

I would highly recommend a clean break cutting all ties with no contact. It's hard, but it works.

+1000

[Tris Prior]

Seconding everything cheddarpie said. I grew up in a household where this sort of thing happened. It escalated from there. I would not wish that on anyone, most of all the animal. You don't need this in your life.

[therethere]

Anger doesn't just go away. And if you brush it off a few times it only makes the anger worse because they get away with it and then can do it again and again. I'm in this scenario now. Get out before you're too intermingled.

[SisterX]

Wow, I read the first half of this thread a few days ago, purely out of interest, and since then...shit got real. I don't really have anything to add that others haven't except this: part of how I knew my husband was going to be my husband is because he fell in love with my dog. He didn't meet her for a while because we were in school, so she was with my parents. He didn't like small dogs (she's a smallish spaniel) and was clearly reticent about her when we decided to move out of the dorms and live together. I made it clear, love me, love my dog, and that she'd be moving in with us. Well, within a week the two of them had fallen so hard for each other, and I haven't had any worries since.
If he didn't love my dog, I'm not certain our relationship would have lasted, and that's without the idea of abuse to my dog, either. I don't care if your guy was in a snit or a rage or whatever, there is NO excuse for that behavior in a grown adult. Even my 2-year-old knows better than that.
Another consideration is that there is nothing to prevent this guy from abusing your dog when you're not around. If he'll do it in front of you, you'd better believe he'll do it (and possibly worse) when you're not around. How awful would you feel if you later found out that he'd been mistreating your dog behind your back? Would you still love him?
Yes, it sucks to lose someone you love. But, realistically, he was trying to force you to lose your dog, and I bet you've loved her for a lot longer. Don't let him get to you. You, and your dog, deserve someone better. Good luck.

[Curbside Prophet]

Interesting that he has a problem with dogs and not cats seeing as how cats can have a lot of bacteria in their claws and saliva.  I mean they even call it cat scratch fever!

I love both cats and dogs but just found it a little amusing.  As it has been mentioned, dogs, cats, and children are all gross in their own ways.  Kids eat their own poop, boogers, and stuff off the floor.  Gross is a perception.

Anyway, put me in the he won't change camp.  As a dog trainer, I was going to state that it's good to give your dog boundaries but if he's physically hitting the animal, he has bigger issues that will continue to manifest.  To be honest, it sounds like an anger/control issue much more than an issue with an animal.

[RetiredAt63]

Even more relevant than The gift of fear is Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men.  Libraries carry it.  Abusive controlling people (not just husbands, although that is the context he is writing in) test boundaries, and move them.  Also worth reading is Captain Awkward (https://captainawkward.com/) - lots of good info there about abuse and boundaries.  But Bancroft's book is essential reading for anyone in this kind of a relationship.

There is nothing new in all this, my Mom told me way back in the 60's that if a boyfriend was ever violent (any kind of violence, a slap qualified), he should never get a second chance.  Unfortunately she didn't tell me about maintaining boundaries for non-violent issues, or I might never have married Ex-DH.  He was a great boundary-pusher.  If someone keeps pushing clearly stated boundaries, that is a person who is not respecting you.  OP, how is your boyfriend at respecting your boundaries?  He seems fine with expecting you to respect his, but does he reciprocate?

Plus SisterX is totally correct about your dog's relationship with your boyfriend, so not fair to your dog.

[Yonco]

My dog has to be home by midnight, he can't bring home any black dogs, and if he's drunk and mean then he is sleeping outside.

[Metric Mouse]

My dog has to be home by midnight, he can't bring home any black dogs, and if he's drunk and mean then he is sleeping outside.

I used to have an owner with those same rules. Maybe we dated in college?

[stlbrah]

I read the thread and can kind of relate since I am going through a similar issue, except that I AM the guy - but much more reasonable and not violent. He, like me, probably grew up with outdoor dogs like I did (slept in large crates my dad built in the basement), or no dog at all. There has to be compromise... The compromise is that the dog is kept but its behavior is tuned so that it works for everyone. To me, animals are below people. I am against animal cruelty - I have actually reported a neighbor to animal control before for locking a dog in a hot garage all day. However, I still see dogs as property rather than human children.


I hated gf's dog. Its behavior was horrendous and it has separation anxiety. I don't feel its relevant to the point, but I will say this just because I know that there are some dog fanatics that are completely crazy and emotional: I know that it was not the dog's fault.

I actually made a thread about it on here a few months ago. I still am not a big fan, but we are going step by step through all of its problems. She is going to start reading more books about it as well. As we train it, I begin to accept it more. I think there is a really good chance that I will like this dog eventually, and I really didn't think it was possible before. It is a long, slow process.


What it came down to was that she made it clear that I was the priority over the dog which made me feel better. I knew how important the dog was to her, so I am doing my best to accept it.


Some posters were quick to give advice to end the relationship are giving up too quickly... but who wants someone who won't fight to make it work anyway. He may end up liking the dog. If I am starting to get along with my gf's poorly trained 10 year old ankle-biter after a lot of struggle, ANYTHING is possible. It is a two person effort to make the situation work. Egos went out of control when people heard that he didn't like dogs. If you didn't have a dog of your own, you probably wouldn't like them either.

Saying to end it after the temper problem was introduced is a different story.


Also, I am not sure on the context of it, but people comparing the dog to the child as if they are equal beings are absurd to me. It may be that they were just pointing out the hypocrisy of the guy. I couldn't trust someone who would feed the dog over a child if we were stranded on a deserted island. In fact, that dog would be dinner.

[justplucky]

I love love love dogs, but still would've recommended compromise for the first part of the thread. Kicking the dog so hard it yelped definitely overshot the "this is okay" boundary for me.

Only people with deep issues use people and creatures more vulnerable than themselves to satisfy their ego's need to feel in control and/or powerful.

What is the point of no return for you? Is it kicking at the dog? Is it kicking the dog so hard it hurts the dog? Is it systematically abusing the dog behind your back? Is it getting in your face yelling at you? Is it shoving you? Is it slapping you? Is it punching you? Be sure you know your boundary so you don't find yourself as the frog who gradually gets boiled.

[dragoncar]

Yeah, whatever op decides for herself, I think it's wrong to bring the dog into that house.  Find it a better home.  The dog can't protect itself, and op has a responsibility not to put it in harms way.

[arebelspy]

Yeah, whatever op decides for herself, I think it's wrong to bring the dog into that house.  Find it a better home.  The dog can't protect itself, and op has a responsibility not to put it in harms way.

Definitely.

[Cassie]

Having worked in the field in the past he has classic abuser signs and things only get worse and never better. If it wasn't the dog it would be something else. For much of my life I never had pets but do now and adore them. even when I didn't have them I would never ever abuse an animal. Hurting a vulnerable creature is unforgivable. It might help you to join a support group for battered women and listen to their stories. They all start and end the same way. Well not all end the same-some women manage to escape with their lives and some don't.   Hugs:))