Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 194025 times)

BuffaloStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #600 on: December 16, 2016, 02:01:37 PM »

UNDERWATER DRONE.

Jesus, don't scare me like that. The Iran debacle was bad enough.

Sounds like it's not even a military drone, just a research drone.  Meh.  Keep it, just maybe email us the temperature data file?


Does no one ever like to give sources here? This is what I'm reading about it: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-drone-idUSKBN14526J

Quote
The drone was part of an unclassified program to collect oceanographic data including salinity, temperature and clarity of the water, the U.S. official added. The data can help inform U.S. military sonar data since such factors affect sound.
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dragoncar

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #601 on: December 16, 2016, 02:11:15 PM »
UNDERWATER DRONE.

Jesus, don't scare me like that. The Iran debacle was bad enough.

Sounds like it's not even a military drone, just a research drone.  Meh.  Keep it, just maybe email us the temperature data file?

Military research tho

Turns out the research project of sneaking through Chinese waters was as failure... need to test a new theory...

Based upon what?  If that was a military drone looking for weak spots in the Chinese submarine sonar net, did you assume we had only one?

I think he's saying since they caught it, the tech can't Sneak in undertected.

Of course in reality they only caught it because it was surfaced for retrieval by the US -"and they just yoinked it from us.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised if the mission was more than mere temperature and salinity readings. That's the unclassified part, but for all we know there's a classified portion that collects other data

lbmustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #602 on: December 16, 2016, 02:34:47 PM »


The idea that anyone can predict Trump behavior is laughable.

Eh, maybe not so much Trump himself, but I think we can get a good (or bad, rather) idea from his appointments.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #603 on: December 16, 2016, 02:43:10 PM »

I think he's saying since they caught it, the tech can't Sneak in undertected.

Of course in reality they only caught it because it was surfaced for retrieval by the US -"and they just yoinked it from us.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised if the mission was more than mere temperature and salinity readings. That's the unclassified part, but for all we know there's a classified portion that collects other data

I always wonder when I read things like this "This is what the people in James Bond's universe would read when he used something like this to sneak into a secret military installation..."
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BuffaloStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #604 on: December 16, 2016, 03:03:31 PM »
Still, I wouldn't be surprised if the mission was more than mere temperature and salinity readings. That's the unclassified part, but for all we know there's a classified portion that collects other data

Good point. I'm immediately reminded of NASA's/the US Air Force's X-37 Orbital Test Vehicle project: There is a lot of it that is unclassified, but much of what this vehicle does is definitely classified.
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dragoncar

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #605 on: December 16, 2016, 03:49:05 PM »
Still, I wouldn't be surprised if the mission was more than mere temperature and salinity readings. That's the unclassified part, but for all we know there's a classified portion that collects other data

Good point. I'm immediately reminded of NASA's/the US Air Force's X-37 Orbital Test Vehicle project: There is a lot of it that is unclassified, but much of what this vehicle does is definitely classified.

I mean, you already have a drone in an area of military interest.  Why wouldn't you leverage that by tossing on another sensor or two?  It doesn't need to be a conspiracy, just not something the US would want to broadcast to China.

Kinda like when we used to fly that birdwatching plane the SR-71 (hence it's name)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 03:52:45 PM by dragoncar »

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #606 on: December 16, 2016, 04:05:30 PM »

I think he's saying since they caught it, the tech can't Sneak in undertected.


And I'm saying that perhaps it can, sometimes.  It's like you're a military commander planning out an attack, and wishing to destroy a radar station with a missile before the ground assault.  But the radar station has a missile defense system that the intelligence geeks tell you has a 50% chance of detecting & destroying your expensive stealth missile.  What would you do?

You just fire two, you didn't pay for them.
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BuffaloStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #607 on: December 16, 2016, 05:57:59 PM »
I mean, you already have a drone in an area of military interest.  Why wouldn't you leverage that by tossing on another sensor or two?  It doesn't need to be a conspiracy, just not something the US would want to broadcast to China.

Kinda like when we used to fly that birdwatching plane the SR-71 (hence it's name)

Ohhhh you went and did it- now I'm geeking out plane style. Even moreso like the supersonic drone that they tried to fly on the back of SR-71's and release it to fly over enemy territory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_D-21

Seeing the crashed/recovered one on display at a museum in China is still one of my oddest/coolest things I saw while travelling.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #608 on: December 17, 2016, 04:41:27 AM »
I mean, you already have a drone in an area of military interest.  Why wouldn't you leverage that by tossing on another sensor or two?  It doesn't need to be a conspiracy, just not something the US would want to broadcast to China.

Kinda like when we used to fly that birdwatching plane the SR-71 (hence it's name)

Ohhhh you went and did it- now I'm geeking out plane style. Even moreso like the supersonic drone that they tried to fly on the back of SR-71's and release it to fly over enemy territory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_D-21

Seeing the crashed/recovered one on display at a museum in China is still one of my oddest/coolest things I saw while travelling.

They placed a drone on the back of the SR-71? In the '60s!? Wow. I'd never heard of this.
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Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #609 on: December 17, 2016, 07:59:00 AM »

The idea that anyone can predict Trump behavior is laughable.

I remember a time when both the political left, and apparently the Soviet Union, thought Reagan was actually crazy.  On some level, I think that Reagan deliberately cultivated that idea, perhaps because it forced his political & diplomatic adversaries to second guess their assumptions about how he would respond to certain provocations.  I wonder if Trump is also cultivating the "unpredictable reaction" persona for similar reasons.

Really? I was born in the '80s, so have no reference for this. But I have never heard Reagan described as unpredictable/crazy like that.

I was an adult then. I do not remember this. I do, remember, hearing murmurings in his second term that he seemed mentally addled, and wondering about dementia or Alzheimer's. Which, in retrospect, seem to habe been true.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #610 on: December 17, 2016, 09:52:28 AM »
They placed a drone on the back of the SR-71? In the '60s!? Wow. I'd never heard of this.

The history of military drones is fascinating, I highly recommend some online research.  They spent millions developing the required miniaturized technology under classified programs, until it started showing up in iPhones.  You may have noticed that consumer drones followed rapidly on the heels of consumer smartphones.

radram

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #611 on: December 17, 2016, 12:20:51 PM »

The idea that anyone can predict Trump behavior is laughable.

I remember a time when both the political left, and apparently the Soviet Union, thought Reagan was actually crazy.  On some level, I think that Reagan deliberately cultivated that idea, perhaps because it forced his political & diplomatic adversaries to second guess their assumptions about how he would respond to certain provocations.  I wonder if Trump is also cultivating the "unpredictable reaction" persona for similar reasons.

Really? I was born in the '80s, so have no reference for this. But I have never heard Reagan described as unpredictable/crazy like that.

I was an adult then. I do not remember this. I do, remember, hearing murmurings in his second term that he seemed mentally addled, and wondering about dementia or Alzheimer's. Which, in retrospect, seem to habe been true.

I do remember this.  My grandmother was going through the same thing, and they behaved very similar.  It is worth pointing out that in early Alzheimers, the patient is often very aware of what is happening to them.  Being president, it was very important to put on a face that everything is fine.  I would be shocked if his symptoms were not covered up while he was president. What was going on behind closed doors must have been an incredible story. Terrible disease.   

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #612 on: December 17, 2016, 03:02:29 PM »
But Reagan at least started with all his marbles, even though he might've lost a few toward the end.  He seemed to be able to handle Gorbachev elegantly, given the high stakes.  Trump truly is, in his own Twittery words, 'unpresidented'.
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jim555

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #613 on: December 17, 2016, 03:34:47 PM »
He has the best words, bigly best.  It is unpresidented how much winning is ahead for us all.  You will get tired of winning.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #614 on: December 17, 2016, 03:50:52 PM »
He has the best words, bigly best.  It is unpresidented how much winning is ahead for us all.  You will get tired of winning.

I'm tired of winning already!

BuffaloStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #615 on: December 17, 2016, 04:18:20 PM »
The history of military drones is fascinating, I highly recommend some online research.  They spent millions developing the required miniaturized technology under classified programs, until it started showing up in iPhones.  You may have noticed that consumer drones followed rapidly on the heels of consumer smartphones.

This. But the D-21 has the distinction of quite possibly being the first supersonic drone. That there is any real record or knowledge of. Getting back on topic,

I wonder if Trump is also cultivating the "unpredictable reaction" persona for similar reasons.

I definitely wonder this as well.
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dragoncar

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #616 on: December 17, 2016, 04:51:00 PM »
They placed a drone on the back of the SR-71? In the '60s!? Wow. I'd never heard of this.

The history of military drones is fascinating, I highly recommend some online research.  They spent millions developing the required miniaturized technology under classified programs, until it started showing up in iPhones.  You may have noticed that consumer drones followed rapidly on the heels of consumer smartphones.

Which tech are you referring to?  MEMS accelerometers?  GPS?

I mean, you already have a drone in an area of military interest.  Why wouldn't you leverage that by tossing on another sensor or two?  It doesn't need to be a conspiracy, just not something the US would want to broadcast to China.

Kinda like when we used to fly that birdwatching plane the SR-71 (hence it's name)

Ohhhh you went and did it- now I'm geeking out plane style. Even moreso like the supersonic drone that they tried to fly on the back of SR-71's and release it to fly over enemy territory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_D-21

Seeing the crashed/recovered one on display at a museum in China is still one of my oddest/coolest things I saw while travelling.

Aww, it's like a little baby SR-71!

PS, I'm sure you are aware of the highly entertaining copypasta: https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/3e0h8x/sr71_blackbird/
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 04:54:31 PM by dragoncar »

jambongris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #617 on: December 17, 2016, 05:12:13 PM »
They placed a drone on the back of the SR-71? In the '60s!? Wow. I'd never heard of this.

The history of military drones is fascinating, I highly recommend some online research.  They spent millions developing the required miniaturized technology under classified programs, until it started showing up in iPhones.  You may have noticed that consumer drones followed rapidly on the heels of consumer smartphones.

Which tech are you referring to?  MEMS accelerometers?  GPS?

I mean, you already have a drone in an area of military interest.  Why wouldn't you leverage that by tossing on another sensor or two?  It doesn't need to be a conspiracy, just not something the US would want to broadcast to China.

Kinda like when we used to fly that birdwatching plane the SR-71 (hence it's name)

Ohhhh you went and did it- now I'm geeking out plane style. Even moreso like the supersonic drone that they tried to fly on the back of SR-71's and release it to fly over enemy territory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_D-21

Seeing the crashed/recovered one on display at a museum in China is still one of my oddest/coolest things I saw while travelling.

Aww, it's like a little baby SR-71!

PS, I'm sure you are aware of the highly entertaining copypasta: https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/3e0h8x/sr71_blackbird/

Phenomenal.

sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #618 on: December 17, 2016, 05:53:53 PM »
Which tech are you referring to?  MEMS accelerometers?  GPS?

Yes, along with tiny digital cameras and low power electronics for autonomous navigation and encrypted communications.  We've had most other sensors, like electronic altimeters and proximity sensors, for a while now but tying GPS to the accelerometers in a package that will fit into a nosecone used to be classified guided missile technology.  Now North Korea can buy that technology in a $50 smartphone

oldtoyota

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #619 on: December 18, 2016, 06:52:11 AM »

The idea that anyone can predict Trump behavior is laughable.

I remember a time when both the political left, and apparently the Soviet Union, thought Reagan was actually crazy.  On some level, I think that Reagan deliberately cultivated that idea, perhaps because it forced his political & diplomatic adversaries to second guess their assumptions about how he would respond to certain provocations.  I wonder if Trump is also cultivating the "unpredictable reaction" persona for similar reasons.

Really? I was born in the '80s, so have no reference for this. But I have never heard Reagan described as unpredictable/crazy like that.

I was an adult then. I do not remember this. I do, remember, hearing murmurings in his second term that he seemed mentally addled, and wondering about dementia or Alzheimer's. Which, in retrospect, seem to habe been true.

I do remember this.  My grandmother was going through the same thing, and they behaved very similar.  It is worth pointing out that in early Alzheimers, the patient is often very aware of what is happening to them.  Being president, it was very important to put on a face that everything is fine.  I would be shocked if his symptoms were not covered up while he was president. What was going on behind closed doors must have been an incredible story. Terrible disease.

I thought everyone knew he had ALZ. It's more surprising to me that people did not realize this...


EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #620 on: December 18, 2016, 07:32:42 AM »
Reagan's Alzheimer's is common knowledge now, but it was kept under wraps during his presidency.  I'll also add, Melania (and Ivnka) are no Nancy Reagan. 
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kayvent

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #621 on: December 18, 2016, 08:00:29 AM »
Reagan's Alzheimer's is common knowledge now, but it was kept under wraps during his presidency.  I'll also add, Melania (and Ivnka) are no Nancy Reagan.

Melania Trump has stated that her first lady area of focus will be fighting climate change. So in that respect, there are some similarities.

GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #622 on: December 18, 2016, 08:16:24 AM »
Reagan's Alzheimer's is common knowledge now, but it was kept under wraps during his presidency.  I'll also add, Melania (and Ivnka) are no Nancy Reagan.

Melania Trump has stated that her first lady area of focus will be fighting climate change. So in that respect, there are some similarities.

So, (based entirely upon his picks for office) she's going to be fighting against her husband's agenda?

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #623 on: December 18, 2016, 08:25:07 AM »
Reagan's Alzheimer's is common knowledge now, but it was kept under wraps during his presidency.  I'll also add, Melania (and Ivnka) are no Nancy Reagan.

Melania Trump has stated that her first lady area of focus will be fighting climate change. So in that respect, there are some similarities.

Can you please cite your source on this? I cannot find a single thing about it. The only thing I have heard is that Melania wants to make anti-bullying her focus. Which is a rich irony in and of itself.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #624 on: December 18, 2016, 10:52:36 AM »
I agree with what others are saying, that Melania is tackling cyber bullies and Ivanka tacitly seems to be flying an environmentalist flag - although her actions make her words worthless.  But what I was really getting at was how Nancy was Ronald's backbone when his illness manifested.  Melania and Ivanka are nowhere near the confidants and support network if Trump actually is suffering a mental illness.  I'm thinking Banon is like that for Trump, heaven help us.
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kayvent

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #625 on: December 18, 2016, 12:02:33 PM »
Reagan's Alzheimer's is common knowledge now, but it was kept under wraps during his presidency.  I'll also add, Melania (and Ivnka) are no Nancy Reagan.

Melania Trump has stated that her first lady area of focus will be fighting climate change. So in that respect, there are some similarities.

Can you please cite your source on this? I cannot find a single thing about it. The only thing I have heard is that Melania wants to make anti-bullying her focus. Which is a rich irony in and of itself.

It appears I was wrong. It is Ivanka Trump that will make climate change her prerogative. I get them mixed up....probably because they are close enough in age to be siblings.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #626 on: December 18, 2016, 12:11:01 PM »
It appears I was wrong. It is Ivanka Trump that will make climate change her prerogative. I get them mixed up....probably because they are close enough in age to be siblings.

11 years? Not an unheard of gap, especially in previous generations, but about the point where I would not assume siblings.
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iris lily

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #627 on: December 18, 2016, 12:12:18 PM »
Reagan's Alzheimer's is common knowledge now, but it was kept under wraps during his presidency.  I'll also add, Melania (and Ivnka) are no Nancy Reagan.

Melania Trump has stated that her first lady area of focus will be fighting climate change. So in that respect, there are some similarities.

Can you please cite your source on this? I cannot find a single thing about it. The only thing I have heard is that Melania wants to make anti-bullying her focus. Which is a rich irony in and of itself.

It appears I was wrong. It is Ivanka Trump that will make climate change her prerogative. I get them mixed up....probably because they are close enough in age to be siblings.
And Ivanka is the one who is pushing the political issue of 6 weeks of mandatory paid maternity leave.

Fortunately, if this goes forward it wont be the first time  a GOP Congress clamps down on a liberal agenda item.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 12:15:59 PM by iris lily »

radram

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #628 on: December 18, 2016, 02:53:13 PM »


I thought everyone knew he had ALZ. It's more surprising to me that people did not realize this...
The public knew, but not during his presidency. That disease was not very well known then.  It became clear years later.  You can live with this disease for decades, as Reagan did.  Now we say of course he had it, but during the time of his presidency is was hidden. I would bet those under him would still refuse to admit how far along his progression was during his presidency.  In fact, according to google, he died after having Alzheimer's for "over a decade" and died in 2004. The public statement is that he was diagnosed in 1994, 5 years after leaving office. There is no official diagnosis that has been released that shows he was diagnosed while president. His son is on record as saying he thought he had the disease during his presidency. It is clear that his son differs politically than his father, do many see his statements as politically motivated.

radram

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #629 on: December 18, 2016, 03:00:49 PM »
I agree with what others are saying, that Melania is tackling cyber bullies and Ivanka tacitly seems to be flying an environmentalist flag - although her actions make her words worthless.  But what I was really getting at was how Nancy was Ronald's backbone when his illness manifested.  Melania and Ivanka are nowhere near the confidants and support network if Trump actually is suffering a mental illness.  I'm thinking Banon is like that for Trump, heaven help us.

Outside of hearing their private conversations, I can not see how we could possibly know how much support Melania and Ivanka are.  We can see after the fact with regard to Nancy but that remains to be seen for the PEFL (President Elect First Lady... is that a think? did I create a thing? do I hashtag this thing now? copyright people talk to me :)

purple monkey

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #630 on: December 18, 2016, 07:05:03 PM »
Has NPD.
Splitting is constant.
Ivanka is golden child.
Cabinet will be flying monkeys.
Everyday will be chaos.
Normal, empathetic people will constantly  give him the benefit of the doubt and will never understand his behavior.
Will take decades to recover.
Will go down in history  like Grant and Hoover.
But we, the electorate, are to blame.
Would be better to have anyone else that ran in the office.
He is incapable of anything not related to him.
If he were not rich and the president elect,  he might be homeless, where many NPD folks end up.
CHEERS!

jim555

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #631 on: December 19, 2016, 05:37:49 PM »
Well Trump wins again, electors that is.  The man is a winning machine.  So much win.

bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #632 on: December 19, 2016, 06:37:34 PM »
Well Trump wins again, electors that is.  The man is a winning machine.  So much win.

He won by a landslide. It was a win by the biggest almost the biggest a really huge percentage. Huge!

vern

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #633 on: December 19, 2016, 07:31:31 PM »
After all of those protests and threats, Hillary lost more electors than Trump.
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EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #634 on: December 19, 2016, 10:32:46 PM »
I think (IMHO) that the American people are copacetic with the EC acting in accordance with the outcome of the election.  I don't recall seeing proclamations that the EC carrying out its duty would result in anything other than Trump being certified (with the exception to hack online clickbait news and one imaginative Huffingtonpost article).

So we move forward.  America will certainly never be the same again.
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kayvent

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #635 on: December 20, 2016, 05:28:55 PM »
Well Trump wins again, electors that is.  The man is a winning machine.  So much win.

He won by a landslide. It was a win by the biggest almost the biggest a really huge percentage. Huge!

A drastic landslide. If Texas, California, and a few of the three elector states left the union, Trump would still win.

sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #636 on: December 20, 2016, 07:16:24 PM »
A drastic landslide.

I can never tell who is being serious anymore.

Trump's electoral college vote total was smaller than Obama's.  Go ahead, look it up.  I'll wait.

And incidentally, Hillary Clinton's popular vote percentage margin of victory was larger than the one we have used to elect 8 of our 44 Presidents.  You really want to talk about landslides?

kayvent

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #637 on: December 20, 2016, 07:46:35 PM »
A drastic landslide. If Texas, California, and a few of the three elector states left the union, Trump would still win.

I can never tell who is being serious anymore.

Trump's electoral college vote total was smaller than Obama's.  Go ahead, look it up.  I'll wait.

And incidentally, Hillary Clinton's popular vote percentage margin of victory was larger than the one we have used to elect 8 of our 44 Presidents.  You really want to talk about landslides?

Please correct me if I miscalculated anything. Not including how the actual electors cast their votes, Trump beat Clinton 306 to 232. Trump won Texas (38), California (29), Montana (3), and North Dakota (3). If those four states were to have not counted, Trump would have still won. Whereas if California would have ceased to exist, Clinton would have lost the popular vote (45% to 46%) and only had 37% of the electoral college votes.

While this is an unorthodox way to look at things, I'd hope we can agree that this novel way of looking at it shows that it wasn't a close result through some metrics. Trump would have needed to lose Florida and two small states or three medium states to have lost the election; Clinton saved face due to California.

Other notes: The USA election is not decided by population vote. I have no idea why you would bring up anything to do with it. I never made any comment on Obama '08 or '12. I'd agree they were landslides too.

I bring up California because of caxit (sp?). California is a big, blue vanguard.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 07:50:26 PM by kayvent »

Gin1984

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #638 on: December 20, 2016, 08:00:22 PM »
A drastic landslide. If Texas, California, and a few of the three elector states left the union, Trump would still win.

I can never tell who is being serious anymore.

Trump's electoral college vote total was smaller than Obama's.  Go ahead, look it up.  I'll wait.

And incidentally, Hillary Clinton's popular vote percentage margin of victory was larger than the one we have used to elect 8 of our 44 Presidents.  You really want to talk about landslides?

Please correct me if I miscalculated anything. Not including how the actual electors cast their votes, Trump beat Clinton 306 to 232. Trump won Texas (38), California (29), Montana (3), and North Dakota (3). If those four states were to have not counted, Trump would have still won. Whereas if California would have ceased to exist, Clinton would have lost the popular vote (45% to 46%) and only had 37% of the electoral college votes.

While this is an unorthodox way to look at things, I'd hope we can agree that this novel way of looking at it shows that it wasn't a close result through some metrics. Trump would have needed to lose Florida and two small states or three medium states to have lost the election; Clinton saved face due to California.

Other notes: The USA election is not decided by population vote. I have no idea why you would bring up anything to do with it. I never made any comment on Obama '08 or '12. I'd agree they were landslides too.

I bring up California because of caxit (sp?). California is a big, blue vanguard.
Trump did not win California.

llorona

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #639 on: December 20, 2016, 08:30:47 PM »
Um, Trump most decidedly did NOT win 29 electoral college votes in California. Hell would have frozen over before that happened. All 55 California electors cast their vote for Hillary. http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article121894753.html


Johnez

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #640 on: December 20, 2016, 08:50:21 PM »
Pretty sure kayvent meant Florida with its 29 electoral votes.

Regarding if this state did this, or that state did that, hell if ifs were fifths we'd all be drunk.

Cressida

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #641 on: December 20, 2016, 10:17:48 PM »
Clinton saved face due to California.

What does that even mean? Are California voters not voters? Do they not count for some other reason? Please explain?

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #642 on: December 21, 2016, 03:54:39 AM »
After all of those protests and threats, Hillary lost more electors than Trump.

Yeah... that was crazy! I'm not even sure how to explain Clinton getting dumped by more electors than Trump..... racism sexism alt-rightism, maybe?

On the plus side, Bernie Sanders and Colin Powell picked up some votes... maybe 2020?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 04:00:40 AM by Metric Mouse »
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kayvent

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #643 on: December 21, 2016, 04:38:10 AM »
Pretty sure kayvent meant Florida with its 29 electoral votes.

Regarding if this state did this, or that state did that, hell if ifs were fifths we'd all be drunk.

Yup :) I have this bad habit of calling California Florida and calling Florida California. The ifs are just for illustrative and demonstrative purposes.

Clinton saved face due to California.

What does that even mean? Are California voters not voters? Do they not count for some other reason? Please explain?

It means what I said. Which is a coincidence because it is what I said.  If California didn't exist, it would have been an abject failure for Clinton. For example, if California didn't exist Trump could have lost to her four medium-size states and a large handful of the small ones - and still win.

Pooplips

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #644 on: December 21, 2016, 05:45:55 AM »
A drastic landslide.

I can never tell who is being serious anymore.

Trump's electoral college vote total was smaller than Obama's.  Go ahead, look it up.  I'll wait.

And incidentally, Hillary Clinton's popular vote percentage margin of victory was larger than the one we have used to elect 8 of our 44 Presidents.  You really want to talk about landslides?

I have a question for everyone discussing the popular vote. How do you think the popular vote would change if we actually decided elections this way?

For example, if you are a dem in and all red state, would you even waste your time voting knowing it doesn't count for anything? or rep in an all blue state? If the election was decided by the popular vote the candidates would have campained differently by simply trying to get everyone to vote for them and not just select swing states.

Sighting the popular vote when things are not determined that way doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. If it was determined by the popular vote the election could have been drastically different, one way or the other.

GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #645 on: December 21, 2016, 06:01:37 AM »
A drastic landslide.

I can never tell who is being serious anymore.

Trump's electoral college vote total was smaller than Obama's.  Go ahead, look it up.  I'll wait.

And incidentally, Hillary Clinton's popular vote percentage margin of victory was larger than the one we have used to elect 8 of our 44 Presidents.  You really want to talk about landslides?

I have a question for everyone discussing the popular vote. How do you think the popular vote would change if we actually decided elections this way?

For example, if you are a dem in and all red state, would you even waste your time voting knowing it doesn't count for anything? or rep in an all blue state? If the election was decided by the popular vote the candidates would have campained differently by simply trying to get everyone to vote for them and not just select swing states.

Yes, that's the benefit of the popular vote.  Every vote counts, and counts equally.  It would probably have the effect of engaging more of the population in the democratic process.  Campaigning to the majority of people (rather than the select few who live in special states that can swing an election) would be the ideal way to have campaigns run would it not?

Sighting the popular vote when things are not determined that way doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. If it was determined by the popular vote the election could have been drastically different, one way or the other.

Sol cited the popular vote as part of multiple reasons that Trumps presidency can't really be considered a 'drastic landslide'.  Calling Trump's win a 'drastic landslide' doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #646 on: December 21, 2016, 06:04:42 AM »
Sol cited the popular vote as part of multiple reasons that Trumps presidency can't really be considered a 'drastic landslide'.  Calling Trump's win a 'drastic landslide' doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Well, it makes 'sense' to me that Trump and his team would call it that. Of course, by almost any objective measure, his victory was not very large, and certainly not a 'landslide'.
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Pooplips

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #647 on: December 21, 2016, 06:05:18 AM »
I don't disagree with anything you said. I wasn't citing Sol for that purpose just that his post made me think of it.

I meant for that post to be directed to all the people saying "Hillary should be President because she won the popular vote."

redbirdfan

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #648 on: December 21, 2016, 07:09:15 AM »
Full disclosure: I think we should choose the presidency by popular vote. I fully understand that we do not.  I don't think losing the popular vote makes Trump's presidency less valid, but his tweeting about how he actually "won" the popular vote makes it obvious that he's insecure about it.  What I have little tolerance for is his constantly stating that he has a mandate or that he won in a landslide.  Let's give every voter an equal voice.  I don't put much stock in the argument that electing the president by popular vote would cause politicians to campaign in only a few states.  That's true now only the handful of states aren't the most populated ones. 

The simple truth is that the nation is divided politically (in terms of people who actually do and/or are allowed to vote).  Trump carried the states of Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan by about 1% give or take.  The winner-takes-all method of voting distorts how divided the country is.  What we really need is a return to bipartisan solutions to issues that affect the American public.  We need a coherent national foreign policy, a bipartisan solution to health care, a bipartisan solution to entitlement reform and just a overall return to common sense.  Republicans proceed at their own peril if they use narrow victories in historically blue-leaning states to gut Social Security and Medicare and repeal Obamacare without a viable replacement. 

I'm a moderate Republican.  I voted for Hillary.  I fully accept that Donald Trump will be the president.  I hope his election will force moderate Republicans in office to become more vocal.  I want bipartisan to cease being a four letter word.  Any meaningful solutions to health care, social security, Medicare and terrorism will require bipartisan effort.  I'm not terribly optimistic about the next four years but I am hopeful that future American generations will be more willing to reach across the aisle to govern responsibly.   

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #649 on: December 21, 2016, 07:57:12 AM »
He has the best words, bigly best.  It is unpresidented how much winning is ahead for us all.  You will get tired of winning.

I want comments like this, across the internet, for the next four years.  Non-stop.  So much funny.
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20 months to go!