Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 155205 times)

NoStacheOhio

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Location: Cleveland
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3000 on: April 19, 2017, 08:49:42 AM »

It's because they want a good story, and to feel good about themselves. It's the one thing Trump might be good at. His narrative unified enough people in the right places to win the Electoral College, but no more than that.

It doesn't matter that the things he says aren't true, or that he's advocating policies harmful to people outside his tribe. At least not to him and his tribe.

It's literally the worst of human nature exploited to consolidate political power.

And that's what the left believes. They think the right is full of uneducated sheep that are always so susceptible to being exploited and lied to.

But the left fails to realize that that kind of insulting rhetoric is exactly why Trump was elected. The left would rather shame and name-call than discuss the issues. They'd rather shut down rallies than respectfully disagree. Whether it's Trump, Milo, Shapiro, or any number of people, the left chooses to silence and be violent, and then they wonder why people voted against them.

All I'm saying is that, until people genuinely understand why conservatives truly elected Trump, the right will continue to become bigger and bigger every day.

Are you misinterpreting what I said on purpose? Or is it unintentional?

I never said anything about the people who voted for him being uneducated sheep. You did.

The fact remains, the Trump narrative is carefully crafted and chooses its facts.

The inauguration crowd count is a perfect microcosm of the narrative in action. You're even doing it here, "the right will continue to become bigger and bigger" presumes that there are more people in "the right" than there were before, and that it's growing. It doesn't matter if it's true, keep shouting it to rally the troops. It's myth in the traditional sense (think Rome).
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5646
  • Location: la belle province
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3001 on: April 19, 2017, 08:58:45 AM »
Sean Spicer (who I think is awesome)

I am truly speechless.  I think you may be the only person in America who thinks that man is "awesome".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ9vt1Kbrp4
He misspoke. He said Hitler was despicable. Stating that he's endorsing Hitler or denying the Holocaust is ridiculous. Just a not-well-thought-out comment. Nothing more, nothing less.

I like him because he's not afraid to tel the truth. He's not afraid to confront the media when they tell lies and make up controversies. Instead of being a lifeless drone, he tries to be as transparent as possible, and say what him and Trump's voters truly believe in.

There are two things here that I stronlgy disagree with: 1) that Sean Spicer tells the truth and that 2) he offers a greater level of transparency than other WH press secretaries.

There are numerous instances when Spicer has pushed a narrative that directly contradicts easily obtainable facts.  A few instances include his insistence that DJT's inaugeration was the most attended in history, that he received the most electoral votes of any candidate since Reagan and that Paul Manafort played a very limited role in the campaign.  All of those statements are demonstrably false, yet he stood by each (and other claims) even after others brought up evidence contradicting him.
In regards to transparency, in his role as WH press secretary he's prohibited many of the largest media organizations from attending certain functions (nicknamed "gaggles") and has most recently denied requests for white house visitor logs - something his predecessors have provided.

I don't doubt that Spicer has been told to push these positions by his boss, but that doesn't make what he says truthful or transparent.

"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

NoStacheOhio

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Location: Cleveland
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3002 on: April 19, 2017, 09:03:38 AM »
Sean Spicer (who I think is awesome)

I am truly speechless.  I think you may be the only person in America who thinks that man is "awesome".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ9vt1Kbrp4
He misspoke. He said Hitler was despicable. Stating that he's endorsing Hitler or denying the Holocaust is ridiculous. Just a not-well-thought-out comment. Nothing more, nothing less.

I like him because he's not afraid to tel the truth. He's not afraid to confront the media when they tell lies and make up controversies. Instead of being a lifeless drone, he tries to be as transparent as possible, and say what him and Trump's voters truly believe in.

There are two things here that I stronlgy disagree with: 1) that Sean Spicer tells the truth and that 2) he offers a greater level of transparency than other WH press secretaries.

There are numerous instances when Spicer has pushed a narrative that directly contradicts easily obtainable facts.  A few instances include his insistence that DJT's inaugeration was the most attended in history, that he received the most electoral votes of any candidate since Reagan and that Paul Manafort played a very limited role in the campaign.  All of those statements are demonstrably false, yet he stood by each (and other claims) even after others brought up evidence contradicting him.
In regards to transparency, in his role as WH press secretary he's prohibited many of the largest media organizations from attending certain functions (nicknamed "gaggles") and has most recently denied requests for white house visitor logs - something his predecessors have provided.

I don't doubt that Spicer has been told to push these positions by his boss, but that doesn't make what he says truthful or transparent.

Calling their own actions "truthful" and "transparent" is also part of the narrative.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3003 on: April 19, 2017, 09:15:31 AM »


All I'm saying is that, until people genuinely understand why conservatives truly elected Trump, the right will continue to become bigger and bigger every day.

We already know why conservatives truly elected Trump, because they are anti-abortion, want the freedom to discriminate against minorities, and prevent gay people from gaining the right to employment non-discrimination.

A lot of people who voted for Trump are not conservative, they have been misled by populist rhetoric, and when they realize they have been conned, like when they lose health insurance, or grasp that the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back for them, they won't be voting for him in 2020.
But what you don't realize is that by insulting conservatives and boiling down many of their well-thought-out reasons to what YOU incorrectly identify as the actual ones, you're only turning them away.

I always think it's funny when people (not saying you) try to tell me why I voted for Trump. They'll say stuff like, "you homophobic Christian", not realizing that I'm both pro-gay marriage, and also an atheist. But even after I say that, they'll just find other names to call me.

Nothing will change unless people stop slandering each other. Neither people on the left or the right are big, bad boogeymen. Maybe, just maybe, people voted for Trump because they believe in his policies.

NoStacheOhio

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Location: Cleveland
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3004 on: April 19, 2017, 09:29:17 AM »

Nothing will change unless people stop slandering each other. Neither people on the left or the right are big, bad boogeymen. Maybe, just maybe, people voted for Trump because they believe in his policies.

Does that extend to not saying things like?

He's not afraid to confront the media when they tell lies and make up controversies.

And this? There were numerous photos taken from a variety of vantage points throughout the day, all telling the same story.

I mean, Spicer really started getting attacked when he made the comment about the crowd size at Trump's inauguration. Then CNN and all these other media outlets started calling him a liar, and turning people against him. I don't quite remember the exact time, but the photos taken as "proof" the crowds were small was taken at something like 6am. Well before masses started showing up. That's fake news. And Spicer is the bad guy for calling them out?

Or does it only apply to people who disagree with (thus "slandering") the tribe?
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3005 on: April 19, 2017, 09:38:57 AM »

And this? There were numerous photos taken from a variety of vantage points throughout the day, all telling the same story.


No, the ones taken later in the day, while obviously not showing the biggest attendance in history, shows the media's attempt to suggest that he's so unpopular that only a few people came is simply not true. Or what about the rape allegations. Or people claiming that Trump's list (not his list) purposely didn't include countries he does business with. Or the Russian hacking allegations. Or the claim that he said that immigrants are rapists. Or the claim that he broke tax laws. Or that he's a sexual predator. All lies or unsubstantiated claims. All perpetuated by the left.

Unique User

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3006 on: April 19, 2017, 09:39:47 AM »


All I'm saying is that, until people genuinely understand why conservatives truly elected Trump, the right will continue to become bigger and bigger every day.

We already know why conservatives truly elected Trump, because they are anti-abortion, want the freedom to discriminate against minorities, and prevent gay people from gaining the right to employment non-discrimination.

A lot of people who voted for Trump are not conservative, they have been misled by populist rhetoric, and when they realize they have been conned, like when they lose health insurance, or grasp that the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back for them, they won't be voting for him in 2020.
But what you don't realize is that by insulting conservatives and boiling down many of their well-thought-out reasons to what YOU incorrectly identify as the actual ones, you're only turning them away.

I always think it's funny when people (not saying you) try to tell me why I voted for Trump. They'll say stuff like, "you homophobic Christian", not realizing that I'm both pro-gay marriage, and also an atheist. But even after I say that, they'll just find other names to call me.

Nothing will change unless people stop slandering each other. Neither people on the left or the right are big, bad boogeymen. Maybe, just maybe, people voted for Trump because they believe in his policies.

What policies?  Jobs, bringing manufacturing back?  Deporting illegals so that Americans can have the jobs picking crops?  Just because you voted for him for a certain reason does not mean everyone did for the same reasons you did.  Many people voted because they believed his lies. I know one person that voted for him because they assumed he would be impeached and didn't want the Clintons back in the White House.  But assuming that everyone voted for him for the same reason you did just proves the right wing echo chamber theory.  Both the left and the right have their share of hypocrites, but unfortunately the GOP has a much higher percentage.  Someone else posted earlier about partisan support of Obama action on Syria and Trump action on Syria and the Dem support was about the same for both.  GOP, not so much. 

I do think it is interesting to hear Trump supporters continually claim that the conservative right is getting bigger and bigger and 2018 will result in more GOP wins in the House and Senate.  This is only anecdotal, but I've spoken with many people since the election and many Independents voted for Republican House and Senate candidates since they thought Hilary was going to win and they are horrified at Trump. 

Spicer truthful and transparent?  That does not even deserve a response.  My Independent self and my Republican husband had a bet going right now whether Trump will be forced out by impeachment or RICO.  I find it incredibly hard to believe that due to his greed, vengeful nature and disrespect for the rule of law that he will even finish his term, much less a second term. 

DavidAnnArbor

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 603
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3007 on: April 19, 2017, 09:40:36 AM »
Maybe, just maybe, people voted for Trump because they believe in his policies.

Trump is not a policy driven person, he's driven by his narcissistic need for adulation and praise. Trump doesn't understand policy, his policy thoughts are self-contradictory. Trump understands publicity, press coverage, ratings, and the art of the con. Trump likes gilded rooms, authoritarian leaders, showing off wealth, and obeisance from those around him. 

Retire-Canada

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3608
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3008 on: April 19, 2017, 09:41:42 AM »
Trump is not a policy driven person, he's driven by his narcissistic need for adulation and praise. Trump doesn't understand policy, his policy thoughts are self-contradictory. Trump understands publicity, press coverage, ratings, and the art of the con. Trump likes gilded rooms, authoritarian leaders, showing off wealth, and obeisance from those around him.

Policy documents tend to be more than 1 page long so there is no way Trump could ever be a policy person. ;)

Unique User

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3009 on: April 19, 2017, 09:43:01 AM »

And this? There were numerous photos taken from a variety of vantage points throughout the day, all telling the same story.


No, the ones taken later in the day, while obviously not showing the biggest attendance in history, shows the media's attempt to suggest that he's so unpopular that only a few people came is simply not true. Or what about the rape allegations. Or people claiming that Trump's list (not his list) purposely didn't include countries he does business with. Or the Russian hacking allegations. Or the claim that he said that immigrants are rapists. Or the claim that he broke tax laws. Or that he's a sexual predator. All lies or unsubstantiated claims. All perpetuated by the left.

Are you so sure these are all lies or unsubstantiated claims?  But of course Obama wiretapped, Susan Rice committed a felony, Bill Clinton should have gone to jail for rape, etc, etc.

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3010 on: April 19, 2017, 09:43:26 AM »

I do think it is interesting to hear Trump supporters continually claim that the conservative right is getting bigger and bigger and 2018 will result in more GOP wins in the House and Senate.  This is only anecdotal, but I've spoken with many people since the election and many Independents voted for Republican House and Senate candidates since they thought Hilary was going to win and they are horrified at Trump. 


Well, I don't think any here on opposite sides of the spectrum will agree, so I'll leave with this: the same people that think Republicans will lose in '18 and '20 are the same ones that were absolutely certain that Clinton and the Democrats were going to demolish the elections. But they forget about the leaners. The people that lean in and whisper that they're voting for Trump, but won't say it in fear of backlash. But that fear goes away in the privacy of polling booths. And it showed on election night all across the country. It wasn't just Trump, it was every election that was held. Lots of closet conservatives.

Unique User

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3011 on: April 19, 2017, 09:50:50 AM »

I do think it is interesting to hear Trump supporters continually claim that the conservative right is getting bigger and bigger and 2018 will result in more GOP wins in the House and Senate.  This is only anecdotal, but I've spoken with many people since the election and many Independents voted for Republican House and Senate candidates since they thought Hilary was going to win and they are horrified at Trump. 


Well, I don't think any here on opposite sides of the spectrum will agree, so I'll leave with this: the same people that think Republicans will lose in '18 and '20 are the same ones that were absolutely certain that Clinton and the Democrats were going to demolish the elections. But they forget about the leaners. The people that lean in and whisper that they're voting for Trump, but won't say it in fear of backlash. But that fear goes away in the privacy of polling booths. And it showed on election night all across the country. It wasn't just Trump, it was every election that was held. Lots of closet conservatives.

Maybe, but many conservatives have forgotten about 2006.  And that the pendulum always swings back.  Always. 

NoStacheOhio

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Location: Cleveland
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3012 on: April 19, 2017, 09:54:50 AM »

And this? There were numerous photos taken from a variety of vantage points throughout the day, all telling the same story.


No, the ones taken later in the day, while obviously not showing the biggest attendance in history, shows the media's attempt to suggest that he's so unpopular that only a few people came is simply not true. Or what about the rape allegations. Or people claiming that Trump's list (not his list) purposely didn't include countries he does business with. Or the Russian hacking allegations. Or the claim that he said that immigrants are rapists. Or the claim that he broke tax laws. Or that he's a sexual predator. All lies or unsubstantiated claims. All perpetuated by the left.

This is rhetorical whack-a-mole. You're just throwing up a laundry list of crap that may or may not hold water, and then attributing it to a leftist conspiracy while being utterly un-critical of the administration's story.

I haven't seen anyone claim he broke tax law. I've seen plenty of claims that he's exploited tax law in bad faith and treats his vendors poorly.

Personally, I don't discount rape allegations out of hand, and I understand the reasons why it's so hard to get a conviction. Just going to lump this in with "sexual predator."

I've seen full clip of the rapists/immigrants thing, and I understand the nuance of what he said. I still think it's a deceptive statement.

I can't really make heads or tails of your "lists" comment.

The Russian hacking allegations are serious, and have been made by serious people with bona fides. I think we should look at them apolitically, which hasn't happened.

Well, I don't think any here on opposite sides of the spectrum will agree, so I'll leave with this: the same people that think Republicans will lose in '18 and '20 are the same ones that were absolutely certain that Clinton and the Democrats were going to demolish the elections. But they forget about the leaners. The people that lean in and whisper that they're voting for Trump, but won't say it in fear of backlash. But that fear goes away in the privacy of polling booths. And it showed on election night all across the country. It wasn't just Trump, it was every election that was held. Lots of closet conservatives.

FiveThirtyEight had a whole series dissecting the 2016 election results versus polls, and the number of closeted Trump supporters was pretty insignificant compared to other factors.

If there were so many closet conservatives, then why did so many increased minimum wage laws pass? Marijuana legalization?
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

BuffaloStache

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Location: Colorado
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3013 on: April 19, 2017, 10:05:40 AM »
Interjection with a lighthearted take on a serious issue. This website is awesome:

https://istrumpatmaralago.org
My Log

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5646
  • Location: la belle province
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3014 on: April 19, 2017, 10:57:02 AM »

And this? There were numerous photos taken from a variety of vantage points throughout the day, all telling the same story.

No, the ones taken later in the day, while obviously not showing the biggest attendance in history, shows the media's attempt to suggest that he's so unpopular that only a few people came is simply not true. Or what about the rape allegations. Or people claiming that Trump's list (not his list) purposely didn't include countries he does business with. Or the Russian hacking allegations. Or the claim that he said that immigrants are rapists. Or the claim that he broke tax laws. Or that he's a sexual predator. All lies or unsubstantiated claims. All perpetuated by the left.
Color me baffled why you would consider many of your examples "lies or unsubstantiated claims" that are "all perpetuated by the left".
There are three FBI probes into Russian hacking, and both the CIA and FBI have said publicly that Russia attempted to interfere with the election (source)

I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.

Like NoStacheOhio said I haven't it said that he's cheated on his taxes, but his utter lack of transparency doesn't help things.  A bigger concern to me is potential conflicts of interest, which he also won't disclose.

I share your frustration that some left-leaning individuals label republicans as being racist bigots and how that can be counterproductive, but it certainly isn't everyone, or even a majority (unless you'd like to provide a source showing how I"m wrong).

"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

Malaysia41

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2786
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Half Way Around The World
    • My mmm journal
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3015 on: April 19, 2017, 11:33:24 AM »


I share your frustration that some left-leaning individuals label republicans as being racist bigots and how that can be counterproductive, but it certainly isn't everyone, or even a majority (unless you'd like to provide a source showing how I"m wrong).

I don't understand why so many Republicans all of a sudden need the approval/acceptance of the 'left'  - approval from the very people they've demonized for decades. If you've been calling me 'bleeding heart' /  Chairman Mao / evil liberal elite / idiot leftist for 20 years, I'm not exactly going to embrace you when you gleefully support a lecherous egotist of such low character as Trump.

Why am I expected to shrug that name-calling off, but a Republican can't take being called racist? (Not that I've personally called anyone racist - but IMO if you don't understand the legacy of the post-reconstruction prison-lease system you have no standing to have any sort of a claim that the US is 'post racial' or color blind or that somehow racism isn't endemic in our justice system).

Why would a Republican need my acceptance after calling me so many derisive names for so long? Not that I identify as any particular label. I was registered GOP for 20 years for goodness sakes. But I'll take science and humanity over plutocracy and darwinianism every time, so I if I had to pick a label I'd currently identify as progressive liberal. I'm a big fan of government protecting all of our rights, unlike Trump's AG Jeff Sessions who not only supports Civil Asset Forfeiture ( a clear violation of 4th and 5th amendments), but also supports the war on drugs - a clear violation of my personal liberties as well. But those laws won't apply to the elite classes of wealth so Sessions and Trump don't see what the hullabaloo's about.

Anyone who supports the GOP at this point clearly craves plutocracy and darwinian winner-takes-all society.  And guess what - you've got it. You won. You don't get hugs and loves and acceptance from me too.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 11:40:48 AM by Malaysia41 »
Last one to panic wins!

My Rohingya Refugee Charity (now Tax Exempt!)

I'm an enemy of POTUS, VPOTUS, and the privately funded political system that inflicted them upon us.

Kris

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2199
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3016 on: April 19, 2017, 11:57:11 AM »


I share your frustration that some left-leaning individuals label republicans as being racist bigots and how that can be counterproductive, but it certainly isn't everyone, or even a majority (unless you'd like to provide a source showing how I"m wrong).

I don't understand why so many Republicans all of a sudden need the approval/acceptance of the 'left'  - approval from the very people they've demonized for decades. If you've been calling me 'bleeding heart' /  Chairman Mao / evil liberal elite / idiot leftist for 20 years, I'm not exactly going to embrace you when you gleefully support a lecherous egotist of such low character as Trump.

Why am I expected to shrug that name-calling off, but a Republican can't take being called racist? (Not that I've personally called anyone racist - but IMO if you don't understand the legacy of the post-reconstruction prison-lease system you have no standing to have any sort of a claim that the US is 'post racial' or color blind or that somehow racism isn't endemic in our justice system).

Why would a Republican need my acceptance after calling me so many derisive names for so long? Not that I identify as any particular label. I was registered GOP for 20 years for goodness sakes. But I'll take science and humanity over plutocracy and darwinianism every time, so I if I had to pick a label I'd currently identify as progressive liberal. I'm a big fan of government protecting all of our rights, unlike Trump's AG Jeff Sessions who not only supports Civil Asset Forfeiture ( a clear violation of 4th and 5th amendments), but also supports the war on drugs - a clear violation of my personal liberties as well. But those laws won't apply to the elite classes of wealth so Sessions and Trump don't see what the hullabaloo's about.

Anyone who supports the GOP at this point clearly craves plutocracy and darwinian winner-takes-all society.  And guess what - you've got it. You won. You don't get hugs and loves and acceptance from me too.

On a related note, I find it interesting and kind of infuriating when people say that the Democratic Party lost because their policies don't help the working class that voted Trump. As though the GOP, or any of the policies that Trump will enact, will actually end up helping them. Trump won because he exploited the fears and frustrations of his base for his own political gain and financial gain. End of story. Any non-billionaire supporter of his will get nothing in exchange for their support. In fact, it’s reasonable to assume Trump supporters as a whole will be worse off at the end of his presidency, as a direct result of the things he does. And they will likely still be crowing about how he won, like it was some sort of personal victory for them, instead of just a money-making opportunity for him. They’ve been duped, and they think they’ve actually won something more than just a hollow victory to throw in the face of their hated “libtard” bogeymen. And that is very, very sad.

On an also-related note, I think maybe Trae Crowder should be appointed to take over leadership of the DNC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CnayKa3EKs
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 11:59:16 AM by Kris »
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

DoubleDown

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3017 on: April 19, 2017, 12:50:43 PM »
Klaus Von Klausowitz, Bavarian pipe fitter from Germany's Rust Belt, supporter of Adolf Hitler, one of the "forgotten Germans," speaking on Hitler's recent election victory in 1932:

"What the left doesn't get is that Adolf Hitler won because he tells it like it is, and for his policies. He's making Germany Great Again. German working people were getting tired of being vilified by the left, and the country being mistreated after The Great War to End All Wars. If you disagree with the liberals here, your chocolate shop or pretzel factory gets burned down by liberal anarchists. We're tired of getting yelled at just because of our conservative views. That's why Mr. Hitler won 99.9% of the popular vote and has such large turnouts at his rallies (Joseph Goebells has verified those figures).

Adolf Hitler is going to bring back jobs to Germany. There will be so many manufacturing jobs. And he's strong on the military -- I like that. Liberals keep screaming about how Hitler is a fascist, and saying all his supporters are fascists and racists. The European press keeps putting out "fake news" about how Hitler wants to get rid of Jews and gypsies and homosexuals and invade Poland. They don't even give him a chance. They don't realize how many of us like what Hitler says, we just don't go around saying it out loud, otherwise we get attacked for our views. Keep it up, and you'll all be surprised when he's re-elected in '36 and '40 and '44 and '48 and '52..."

<satire>
"Not all quotes on the internet are accurate" -- Abraham Lincoln

bacchi

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1844
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3018 on: April 19, 2017, 12:54:16 PM »
In fact, it’s reasonable to assume Trump supporters as a whole will be worse off at the end of his presidency, as a direct result of the things he does. And they will likely still be crowing about how he won, like it was some sort of personal victory for them, instead of just a money-making opportunity for him. They’ve been duped, and they think they’ve actually won something more than just a hollow victory to throw in the face of their hated “libtard” bogeymen. And that is very, very sad.

I think some are realizing that they've been duped, given the recent Kansas and Georgia elections in strongly conservative districts. Ossof almost won outright (it's now a runoff) in a district that went 62% in 2016 for Tom Price. There's a shift happening and it's not looking good for the GOP.

Quote from: 538
The Republican +2 aggregate margin in Georgia 6 implies a national environment in which Democrats are competitive in a bunch of GOP-held House seats in 2018.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/5-takeaways-from-the-georgia-6-special-election-results/

Quote from: 538
The Georgia 6 Democrats outperformed the weighted average by 7.5 percentage points. In Kansas 4, Democrat James Thompson beat it by 22 points.

Kris

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2199
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3019 on: April 19, 2017, 01:07:11 PM »
In fact, it’s reasonable to assume Trump supporters as a whole will be worse off at the end of his presidency, as a direct result of the things he does. And they will likely still be crowing about how he won, like it was some sort of personal victory for them, instead of just a money-making opportunity for him. They’ve been duped, and they think they’ve actually won something more than just a hollow victory to throw in the face of their hated “libtard” bogeymen. And that is very, very sad.

I think some are realizing that they've been duped, given the recent Kansas and Georgia elections in strongly conservative districts. Ossof almost won outright (it's now a runoff) in a district that went 62% in 2016 for Tom Price. There's a shift happening and it's not looking good for the GOP.

Quote from: 538
The Republican +2 aggregate margin in Georgia 6 implies a national environment in which Democrats are competitive in a bunch of GOP-held House seats in 2018.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/5-takeaways-from-the-georgia-6-special-election-results/

Quote from: 538
The Georgia 6 Democrats outperformed the weighted average by 7.5 percentage points. In Kansas 4, Democrat James Thompson beat it by 22 points.

There will be some who figure it out. How many, we'll have to see.

But there will be a good number of them who will never see it.
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

bacchi

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1844
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3020 on: April 19, 2017, 01:13:50 PM »
There will be some who figure it out. How many, we'll have to see.

But there will be a good number of them who will never see it.

True enough. Hey, almost 25% think Nixon didn't do anything wrong. Can't help those people.

In more good news, Bill O'Reilly was cut from Fox News. The settlement costs must be mounting. Also, Alex Jones might be on the list of has-beens depending on his custody trial. Tough decision for him -- act like an ass, keep his show but (probably) lose his children; act like a rational adult, keep his children but (probably) lose serious viewer numbers.

NoStacheOhio

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Location: Cleveland
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3021 on: April 19, 2017, 01:16:11 PM »

In more good news, Bill O'Reilly was cut from Fox News. The settlement costs must be mounting. Also, Alex Jones might be on the list of has-beens depending on his custody trial. Tough decision for him -- act like an ass, keep his show but (probably) lose his children; act like a rational adult, keep his children but (probably) lose serious viewer numbers.

If he were mustachian, he could choose #2 and call it "retirement."
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

MDM

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3022 on: April 19, 2017, 02:01:36 PM »
As has been mentioned, Canada has a history of doing bad stuff in the name of eugenics too.  I'm trying to point out that the (apparently commonly held by Americans) belief in the moral superiority of the United States comes more from jingoism than reality.
All countries have skeletons in their closets, some worse than others - no disagreement there. 

Here in the US, you can get ~50% of the population to agree we are on a morally bankrupt highway to hell every time we switch presidents.  Of course, it's a different 50% depending on who won. 

Short of murder (and the all too high number of that example: Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc.), the forced sterilization of ~100 million women is at least in contention for the absolute worst governmental action, and I would hope all agree that it was "a very bad thing" without the need to lessen that fact by saying "but _____ did [something bad] also."


acroy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1146
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Dallas TX
    • SWAMI
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3023 on: April 19, 2017, 03:02:26 PM »
So far I think he's doing fine.

Good stuff:
- Small business confidence WAY up. This is a big deal; growth and innovation come from small businesses, not the SP500 group-think gorillas.
http://www.nfib.com/surveys/small-business-economic-trends/
- N Korea recast as a China problem. Total negotiating badassity shown here.
- Strong message to world's minor dictatorships with Syria and MOAB strikes.
- Stopped some of the most egregious regulatory attacks on business; specifically energy
- Gorsuch. GORSUUUCH!!
- Defunded some federal abortion subsidies
- Law and Order. Trying to enforce immigration law. Illegal immigration way down.
- Badass heads for VA, Dept of Education, State Dept. Current VA is a disgrace; our education system maybe worse.
- Leading from the Front, domestically and internationally, torpedoes be damned
- Calling out Mainstream media. Great entertainment. Forcing the 4th estate into desperate hysterics. Media approval rating at all time lows.
- EO in support of 2nd Amendment
- Federal hiring freeze
- General panic and unrest in the Swamp. Excellent. He sure has the right enemies.
- Fast learner. He's never been a politician before. He's a quick study.
- Tax reform. we know it's coming, just not when or how much.

Concerning:
- Flips on foreign policy. This could be good: showing adaptability. He has more information now as Commander in Chief than as a private citizen. Or this could be bad: Converted by the military industrial complex?
- 'rushed' O-care vote. May be good: quickly identified the 'lay of the land' in the House. 'Know thy enemies' and all that. May be bad: too willing to compromise? Overall, I think the vote, pass or fail was a political win for Trump.

Bad
- Pettiness. Grow up. Then again, he warned us....

By the way, the Russian thing:
https://spectator.org/confirmed-john-brennan-colluded-with-foreign-spies-to-defeat-trump/
"One side did collude with foreign powers to tip the election — Hillary’s."
MSM pays this no mind. This kind of shennanigans is why we have a Trump in the WH, not a Cruz, or another Bush, or another Clinton....
semi-SWAMI (Satisfied Working Advanced Mustachian Individual) 1 ‘stash, 1 DW, 7 Mini Money Mustaches...
Don't take life too seriously. You'll never get out of it alive.

scottish

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 702
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3024 on: April 19, 2017, 05:26:09 PM »
Hey Acroy, what do you mean by this?

Quote
N Korea recast as a China problem. Total negotiating badassity shown here.

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1227
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2024 (maybe?)
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3025 on: April 19, 2017, 06:17:25 PM »
A medium length essay worth a read to the end.
http://www.stonekettle.com/2017/04/the-hubris-of-ignorance.html

bacchi

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1844
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3026 on: April 19, 2017, 06:32:40 PM »
- 'rushed' O-care vote. May be good: quickly identified the 'lay of the land' in the House. 'Know thy enemies' and all that. May be bad: too willing to compromise? Overall, I think the vote, pass or fail was a political win for Trump.

You do realize that Day 1 has come and gone, right? The objective was to Repeal and Replace. That actually hasn't happened.

http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2017/03/24/fact-check-trump-promise-repeal-replace-obamacare-day-one-video/

I think your statement above belongs in the "OP is the only one who doesn't see it" thread.

Quote from: Trump
"Nobody knew health care could be this complicated."
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 06:35:35 PM by bacchi »

dividendman

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 711
  • Age: 34
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3027 on: April 19, 2017, 07:52:44 PM »
- Tax reform. we know it's coming, just not when or how much.

Not sure how something that hasn't happened can fall in the "good stuff so far" bucket.

But anyway, this is what it all comes down to. Republicans are in charge of EVERYTHING. If they can't get a significant tax reform package done then they are just a useless party. Do nothing in opposition, do nothing in government. Republicans have been crying about high taxes for as long as I can remember, way longer than repealing the ACA.

Hopefully they simplify the tax code and get rid of all of these deductions and loopholes.  Especially the big ones like the mortgage deduction, the deductions for kids, etc. Then they can lower the rates for everyone.

I can hope, but I don't think they'll be able to agree on anything just like health care. They don't like the current system sure, but can't agree on a different one, so the status quo will prevail.

scottish

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 702
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3028 on: April 19, 2017, 08:17:38 PM »
Hey, I like the stonekettle website.   I just read this article, and I'm going to give it a try.   http://www.stonekettle.com/2012/09/unreasonable-people.html   Time to cut back on Canadian politeness and accomodation!

Republicans are like the Canadian conservative party.   They tell a good story about fiscal responsibility, and self determination and so on.   But when it comes to actions, they seem fundamentally incapable of follow-through.   Like that fellow who told his constituents they don't have to use the internet if they don't like the lack of privacy.   Or the other fellow who told his constituents they should spend their money on health care instead of iPhones.   Who do those f***kers think they work for anyway?


lost_in_the_endless_aisle

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 263
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3029 on: April 19, 2017, 09:57:06 PM »
A medium length essay worth a read to the end.
http://www.stonekettle.com/2017/04/the-hubris-of-ignorance.html
It's funny to me that the above essay proclaims "The world is a dangerous and complicated place" and yet is framed by a Bobcat Goldthwait quote where the comedian is declaring the boneheaded simplicity of air accident investigations: Reagan fired air traffic controllers in 1981 so naturally inexperienced replacement air traffic controllers are the cause of subsequent accidents (which isn't true, and the only example within 6 years of 1981 which was only partially attributed to air traffic guidance problems in the US was mostly pilot error where two private craft simultaneously breached the terminal control area without permission).

It's obvious to the author of the essay that Trump needs expert judgement in his administration, but it's apparently not obvious that we should consult the NTSB judgements rather than comedians when trying to make a rhetorical point (because, you know, reality has this habit of being complicated, much to the annoyance of all political creeds).

I agree with much of the essay otherwise, though I hate how it is written.

NoStacheOhio

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Location: Cleveland
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3030 on: April 20, 2017, 05:54:40 AM »
Who do those f***kers think they work for anyway?

In the U.S., the answer is generally Lockheed-Martin or Pfizer.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5646
  • Location: la belle province
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3031 on: April 20, 2017, 06:01:15 AM »
A medium length essay worth a read to the end.
http://www.stonekettle.com/2017/04/the-hubris-of-ignorance.html

A thought exercise...
Ask yourself -
Under what conditions would you expect management to be ineffective?  (1)
What conditions would make corruption/theft/embezzlement most likely? (2)
When would catastrophic failures be most likely? (3)

(my incomplete answers)*
1: lack of experience, poor communication, no clear vision or concise plan, no agreed upon quantitative measurements for success
2: lack of transparency, financial conflicts of interest, positions awarded based on loyalty and kinship and not productivity or experience, no accountability
3: poor or no oversight, no clearly defined management plan, short term goals prioritized over long term viability.

* I pulled these from a book on effective management I've been reading.
"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

Dabnasty

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Age: 27
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3032 on: April 20, 2017, 09:56:31 AM »
A medium length essay worth a read to the end.
http://www.stonekettle.com/2017/04/the-hubris-of-ignorance.html
It's funny to me that the above essay proclaims "The world is a dangerous and complicated place" and yet is framed by a Bobcat Goldthwait quote where the comedian is declaring the boneheaded simplicity of air accident investigations: Reagan fired air traffic controllers in 1981 so naturally inexperienced replacement air traffic controllers are the cause of subsequent accidents (which isn't true, and the only example within 6 years of 1981 which was only partially attributed to air traffic guidance problems in the US was mostly pilot error where two private craft simultaneously breached the terminal control area without permission).

It's obvious to the author of the essay that Trump needs expert judgement in his administration, but it's apparently not obvious that we should consult the NTSB judgements rather than comedians when trying to make a rhetorical point (because, you know, reality has this habit of being complicated, much to the annoyance of all political creeds).

I agree with much of the essay otherwise, though I hate how it is written.

I can't speak for the author but I'm pretty confident Goldthwait's comments on the simplicity of the situation was not why he used this quote. The point was to use the last line for comedic effect - "I dunno, maybe Walt the janitor isn’t qualified to land a Boeing 707!” - and he used the entire quote to give it context.

It's just a bit of a coincidence that the first part contradicts the idea that things are often more complicated than they seem. But I'd also venture a guess that not even Goldthwait believes it's that simple... he's a comedian, they're generally not being too serious.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 11:21:21 AM by Dabnasty »
“If you could learn to cater to the king you wouldn’t have to live on rice and beans”…”If you could learn to live on rice and beans you wouldn’t have to cater to the king”

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3033 on: April 20, 2017, 04:25:27 PM »

Color me baffled why you would consider many of your examples "lies or unsubstantiated claims" that are "all perpetuated by the left".
Because none of these claims have been PROVEN, except some that have been proven to be FALSE.

Quote
There are three FBI probes into Russian hacking, and both the CIA and FBI have said publicly that Russia attempted to interfere with the election (source)
And that ties Trump to it, how?

Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.

Quote
Like NoStacheOhio said I haven't it said that he's cheated on his taxes, but his utter lack of transparency doesn't help things.  A bigger concern to me is potential conflicts of interest, which he also won't disclose.
POTENTIAL conflicts. So nothing is proven, meaning it's pointless to bring up and hold it against him.

Quote
I share your frustration that some left-leaning individuals label republicans as being racist bigots and how that can be counterproductive, but it certainly isn't everyone, or even a majority (unless you'd like to provide a source showing how I"m wrong).
I won't say it's the majority of people, but certainly the majority of the mainstream media. Trump could say, "hi, how are you doing", and people would find some way to link that to Hitler.

scottish

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 702
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3034 on: April 20, 2017, 07:27:30 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3035 on: April 20, 2017, 07:30:16 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

DavidAnnArbor

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 603
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3036 on: April 20, 2017, 07:53:01 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

Oh that's a relief that you know that, I thought all these women claimed he harassed them.

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3037 on: April 20, 2017, 07:58:08 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

Oh that's a relief that you know that, I thought all these women claimed he harassed them.
Anyone can make a claim. Where's the evident? Guess that whole innocent until proven guilty thing doesn't apply to Trump?

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3448
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3038 on: April 20, 2017, 08:05:48 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

Oh that's a relief that you know that, I thought all these women claimed he harassed them.
Anyone can make a claim. Where's the evident? Guess that whole innocent until proven guilty thing doesn't apply to Trump?

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the justice system, not to public opinion. In short, it means that the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove guilt, not on the defense to prove innocence.

You have specifically claimed that "Trump didn't sexually harass anyone."  That is highly suspect.

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3039 on: April 20, 2017, 08:09:33 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

Oh that's a relief that you know that, I thought all these women claimed he harassed them.
Anyone can make a claim. Where's the evident? Guess that whole innocent until proven guilty thing doesn't apply to Trump?

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the justice system, not to public opinion. You yourself have specifically claimed that "Trump didn't sexually harass anyone."  That is highly suspect.

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct
Again, accusations don't mean anything at all. Obviously courts don't deal with public opinion, but saying or even implying someone is a sexual predator with ZERO evidence is ridiculous.

What if I and four others accuse you of sexual harassment right now? Would it be okay for all of America to then  hold that over your head?

It's just pretty ridiculous to use accusations as a point against Trump. Accusations are not proof.

DavidAnnArbor

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 603
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3040 on: April 20, 2017, 08:12:54 PM »
It's not just the accusations by several women, it's also his own words of how he will just sexually assault a woman when he feels like it, because he can get away with it.  So Trump's message: if you can get away with it, go for it.

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3448
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3041 on: April 20, 2017, 08:14:00 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

Oh that's a relief that you know that, I thought all these women claimed he harassed them.
Anyone can make a claim. Where's the evident? Guess that whole innocent until proven guilty thing doesn't apply to Trump?

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the justice system, not to public opinion. You yourself have specifically claimed that "Trump didn't sexually harass anyone."  That is highly suspect.

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct
Again, accusations don't mean anything at all. Obviously courts don't deal with public opinion, but saying or even implying someone is a sexual predator with ZERO evidence is ridiculous.

What if I and four others accuse you of sexual harassment right now? Would it be okay for all of America to then  hold that over your head?

It's just pretty ridiculous to use accusations as a point against Trump. Accusations are not proof.

It is equally ridiculous to dismiss a pattern of accusations because the alleged offender denies them. Are you aware that Trump has had multiple lawsuits claiming assault and/or sexual harassment beginning more than 20 years ago?

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3042 on: April 20, 2017, 08:14:56 PM »
It's not just the accusations by several women, it's also his own words of how he will just sexually assault a woman when he feels like it, because he can get away with it.  So Trump's message: if you can get away with it, go for it.
That's not what he said at all, and you know it. He wasn't saying he sexually assaults anyone, he was saying that gold digging women let rich guys do anything they want. And they do. They LET them.

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3043 on: April 20, 2017, 08:16:09 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

Oh that's a relief that you know that, I thought all these women claimed he harassed them.
Anyone can make a claim. Where's the evident? Guess that whole innocent until proven guilty thing doesn't apply to Trump?

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the justice system, not to public opinion. You yourself have specifically claimed that "Trump didn't sexually harass anyone."  That is highly suspect.

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct
Again, accusations don't mean anything at all. Obviously courts don't deal with public opinion, but saying or even implying someone is a sexual predator with ZERO evidence is ridiculous.

What if I and four others accuse you of sexual harassment right now? Would it be okay for all of America to then  hold that over your head?

It's just pretty ridiculous to use accusations as a point against Trump. Accusations are not proof.

It is equally ridiculous to dismiss a pattern of accusations because the alleged offender denies them. Are you aware that Trump has had multiple lawsuits claiming assault and/or sexual harassment beginning more than 20 years ago?
So as long as multiple people accuse you, it suddenly means it's somehow more valid?

Lagom

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1091
  • Age: 33
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3044 on: April 20, 2017, 08:16:51 PM »
It's not just the accusations by several women, it's also his own words of how he will just sexually assault a woman when he feels like it, because he can get away with it.  So Trump's message: if you can get away with it, go for it.
That's not what he said at all, and you know it. He wasn't saying he sexually assaults anyone, he was saying that gold digging women let rich guys do anything they want. And they do. They LET them.

Wow. Just wow. Let me guess, you're a MRA?

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3045 on: April 20, 2017, 08:19:52 PM »
It's not just the accusations by several women, it's also his own words of how he will just sexually assault a woman when he feels like it, because he can get away with it.  So Trump's message: if you can get away with it, go for it.
That's not what he said at all, and you know it. He wasn't saying he sexually assaults anyone, he was saying that gold digging women let rich guys do anything they want. And they do. They LET them.
Or...I simply listened to what he said. If you think he was saying that he'd touch women against their will, we listened to two very different tapes. What specifically did he say that makes you think he did so without consent?

Wow. Just wow. Let me guess, you're a MRA?

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3448
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3046 on: April 20, 2017, 08:21:36 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

Oh that's a relief that you know that, I thought all these women claimed he harassed them.
Anyone can make a claim. Where's the evident? Guess that whole innocent until proven guilty thing doesn't apply to Trump?

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the justice system, not to public opinion. You yourself have specifically claimed that "Trump didn't sexually harass anyone."  That is highly suspect.

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct
Again, accusations don't mean anything at all. Obviously courts don't deal with public opinion, but saying or even implying someone is a sexual predator with ZERO evidence is ridiculous.

What if I and four others accuse you of sexual harassment right now? Would it be okay for all of America to then  hold that over your head?

It's just pretty ridiculous to use accusations as a point against Trump. Accusations are not proof.

It is equally ridiculous to dismiss a pattern of accusations because the alleged offender denies them. Are you aware that Trump has had multiple lawsuits claiming assault and/or sexual harassment beginning more than 20 years ago?
So as long as multiple people accuse you, it suddenly means it's somehow more valid?

Are you claiming that there has been a pattern of people working together for the last 28 years in an attempt to falsely discredit Donald Trump?

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3047 on: April 20, 2017, 08:25:04 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

Oh that's a relief that you know that, I thought all these women claimed he harassed them.
Anyone can make a claim. Where's the evident? Guess that whole innocent until proven guilty thing doesn't apply to Trump?

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the justice system, not to public opinion. You yourself have specifically claimed that "Trump didn't sexually harass anyone."  That is highly suspect.

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct
Again, accusations don't mean anything at all. Obviously courts don't deal with public opinion, but saying or even implying someone is a sexual predator with ZERO evidence is ridiculous.

What if I and four others accuse you of sexual harassment right now? Would it be okay for all of America to then  hold that over your head?

It's just pretty ridiculous to use accusations as a point against Trump. Accusations are not proof.

It is equally ridiculous to dismiss a pattern of accusations because the alleged offender denies them. Are you aware that Trump has had multiple lawsuits claiming assault and/or sexual harassment beginning more than 20 years ago?
So as long as multiple people accuse you, it suddenly means it's somehow more valid?

Are you claiming that there has been a pattern of people working together for the last 28 years in an attempt to falsely discredit Donald Trump?
No, I'm saying that regardless of how many accusers there are, he hasn't been found guilty of anything. So holding it over his head is ridiculous at best.

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3448
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3048 on: April 20, 2017, 08:26:01 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

Oh that's a relief that you know that, I thought all these women claimed he harassed them.
Anyone can make a claim. Where's the evident? Guess that whole innocent until proven guilty thing doesn't apply to Trump?

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the justice system, not to public opinion. You yourself have specifically claimed that "Trump didn't sexually harass anyone."  That is highly suspect.

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct
Again, accusations don't mean anything at all. Obviously courts don't deal with public opinion, but saying or even implying someone is a sexual predator with ZERO evidence is ridiculous.

What if I and four others accuse you of sexual harassment right now? Would it be okay for all of America to then  hold that over your head?

It's just pretty ridiculous to use accusations as a point against Trump. Accusations are not proof.

It is equally ridiculous to dismiss a pattern of accusations because the alleged offender denies them. Are you aware that Trump has had multiple lawsuits claiming assault and/or sexual harassment beginning more than 20 years ago?
So as long as multiple people accuse you, it suddenly means it's somehow more valid?

Are you claiming that there has been a pattern of people working together for the last 28 years in an attempt to falsely discredit Donald Trump?
No, I'm saying that regardless of how many accusers there are, he hasn't been found guilty of anything. So holding it over his head is ridiculous at best.

He hasn't been criminally charged, so it's impossible for him to have been found guilty OR INNOCENT.

Wrap your head around that one.

MrMonkeyMoustache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3049 on: April 20, 2017, 08:28:30 PM »


Quote
I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a rapist, but his sexual improprieties have been extensively documented, not just by the lewd comments on the 'hot-mic' Hollywood Access video, but on air with Howard Stern, covered in the tabloids during his last two divorces, and on the set of The Apprentice.
So why dispute the point if you're not calling him a rapist? Many ARE calling him a rapist and predator, when he's not.


The point is that he's setting a terrible role model.   Now everyone sees that it's ok to sexually harass women because you can do this and still be the POTUS.
Trump didn't sexually harass anyone. He made a comment about golddiggers.

Oh that's a relief that you know that, I thought all these women claimed he harassed them.
Anyone can make a claim. Where's the evident? Guess that whole innocent until proven guilty thing doesn't apply to Trump?

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the justice system, not to public opinion. You yourself have specifically claimed that "Trump didn't sexually harass anyone."  That is highly suspect.

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct
Again, accusations don't mean anything at all. Obviously courts don't deal with public opinion, but saying or even implying someone is a sexual predator with ZERO evidence is ridiculous.

What if I and four others accuse you of sexual harassment right now? Would it be okay for all of America to then  hold that over your head?

It's just pretty ridiculous to use accusations as a point against Trump. Accusations are not proof.

It is equally ridiculous to dismiss a pattern of accusations because the alleged offender denies them. Are you aware that Trump has had multiple lawsuits claiming assault and/or sexual harassment beginning more than 20 years ago?
So as long as multiple people accuse you, it suddenly means it's somehow more valid?

Are you claiming that there has been a pattern of people working together for the last 28 years in an attempt to falsely discredit Donald Trump?
No, I'm saying that regardless of how many accusers there are, he hasn't been found guilty of anything. So holding it over his head is ridiculous at best.

He hasn't been criminally charged, so it's impossible for him to have been found guilty OR INNOCENT.

Wrap your head around that one.
I'm not even sure what to say about that. Are you kidding me? Again, innocent until proven guilty. You sexually assaulted me. You haven't been found innocent yet, therefore you're guilty.