Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 205458 times)

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2950 on: April 13, 2017, 11:49:52 AM »
"The strike on Tuesday was the third time in a month that American-led airstrikes may have killed civilians or allies. The military called the episode 'tragic.'"

Trump's engagement in Syria is making Obama's policies look more and more prescient.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2951 on: April 13, 2017, 01:00:39 PM »
What the heck is going on? Why is the US military suddenly so interested in dropping bombs? The first attack in Syria seemed to do very little damage for 50 bombs. I was a little confused why we would do minor damage, but was thinking it was Trumps plan to distance himself from the Russia story. The dialogue from Team Trump over the days following the Syria bombing seem to support that theory. Yesterday he said relations with Russia are at an all time low. Unless you have rose colored glasses and have drunk the cool aid, I think most of us see right through this spinning of truth and games.

But what's with the current bombing? I know some of the voices online suggested after Trump couldn't get many of his executive orders & bills through congress passed he would turn to wartime efforts. Urgh..... I'm not against using force in the world to conquer evil, but I definitely think diplomacy and unity with our allies is the way to go for most problems. Trump doesn't seem to have a foreign policy plan right now. His team constantly sends out conflicting and confusing messages. Right now it feels like the Trump is using war toys for distraction from the Russia issue. Will it work?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/afghanistan-isis-moab-bomb/index.html

He's coming up on 100 days with a crapload of nothing to show for it and wants to look forceful and like he's accomplishing things.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2952 on: April 13, 2017, 01:10:12 PM »
What the heck is going on? Why is the US military suddenly so interested in dropping bombs? The first attack in Syria seemed to do very little damage for 50 bombs. I was a little confused why we would do minor damage, but was thinking it was Trumps plan to distance himself from the Russia story. The dialogue from Team Trump over the days following the Syria bombing seem to support that theory. Yesterday he said relations with Russia are at an all time low. Unless you have rose colored glasses and have drunk the cool aid, I think most of us see right through this spinning of truth and games.

But what's with the current bombing? I know some of the voices online suggested after Trump couldn't get many of his executive orders & bills through congress passed he would turn to wartime efforts. Urgh..... I'm not against using force in the world to conquer evil, but I definitely think diplomacy and unity with our allies is the way to go for most problems. Trump doesn't seem to have a foreign policy plan right now. His team constantly sends out conflicting and confusing messages. Right now it feels like the Trump is using war toys for distraction from the Russia issue. Will it work?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/afghanistan-isis-moab-bomb/index.html

He's coming up on 100 days with a crapload of nothing to show for it and wants to look forceful and like he's accomplishing things.

Sadly, bombing brown people remains as popular as ever here in the good old USA.

Retire-Canada

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2953 on: April 13, 2017, 01:14:08 PM »
Sadly, bombing brown people remains as popular as ever here in the good old USA.

Indeed. You can only shoot so many in the US before it becomes a problem at least temporarily. OTOH bombing the crap out of them on the other side of the world doesn't cause as many problems.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2954 on: April 13, 2017, 06:10:30 PM »
Well, the Syria bombing being viewed as a break-up letter to Putin is charming but I suspect it's still more about swiping left on NK. This article is too kind to Trump (Hillary likely would have led us to the same place we're at now) so I think Trump has merely passed from aimlessness to adequacy:

Something interesting is happening in China and perhaps President Trump deserves some credit.

For the first time, the Chinese government appears to have laid down a bottom-line with North Korea and is threatening Pyongyang with a response of “unprecedented ferocity” if the government of Kim Jong Un goes ahead with a test of either an intercontinental ballistic missile or a nuclear device. North Korea will celebrate the 105th anniversary of the birth of its founder, Kim Il Sung, on Saturday, and some type of military show of force is expected.

In an editorial in the semi-official Global Times on April 12, Pyongyang was put on notice that it must reign in its nuclear ambitions, or else China’s oil shipments to North Korea could be “severely limited.” It is extraordinary for China to make this kind of threat. For more than a decade, as part of its strategy to prop up one of its only allies, China refused to allow the U.N. Security Council to even consider cutting oil shipments to the north. Beijing’s calculus was that the maintenance of the North Korean regime took precedence over everything. Now Beijing seems to be reconsidering its position.



EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2955 on: April 14, 2017, 09:21:40 PM »
It's actually more terrifying hearing other countries have to tell Trump that nuclear war is dumb than the cold war was.  At least back then there was some acknowledgement that the two best countries on the planet were going to reduce their land to toxic swamps.  People are just more distracted nowadays (and apparently ignorant to the significance of things) and so nuclear war is starting to become more of a real threat than it ever was in the 80's. 

So that, currently, is the most significant impact of Trump - that the US has a giant target on its back and the rest of the world  thinks they're better off with a little less America...  But you know, Trump is a great deal maker.  I'm sure we'll be fine.  Especially if there is an attack, I'm sure we will experience a measured, considerate response - nothing like the ongoing quagmire of Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2956 on: April 14, 2017, 09:52:04 PM »
But you know, Trump is a great deal maker.  I'm sure we'll be fine. 

I hope your right cuz I'm a little bit terrified right now...
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EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2957 on: April 14, 2017, 10:15:24 PM »
Wouldn't it be nice if 'great responsibility' actually was a pre-requisite for great power?  Instead, Americans live in a world where school shootings don't change anything.  Occasionally there are discussions on the second amendment, that get perverted into referendums on  hunting and freedom - when the actual discussion started (and should've ended) on how Columbine and Sandy Hook shooters were overly-well armed.  Obviously there is something wrong when kids can murder tens or hundreds of helpless classmates.

Yeah, America is terrifying.  I have no idea how long it will remain a world leader, but choosing the successor correctly will make or break your future.
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lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2958 on: April 15, 2017, 01:42:55 AM »
It's actually more terrifying hearing other countries have to tell Trump that nuclear war is dumb than the cold war was.  At least back then there was some acknowledgement that the two best countries on the planet were going to reduce their land to toxic swamps.  People are just more distracted nowadays (and apparently ignorant to the significance of things) and so nuclear war is starting to become more of a real threat than it ever was in the 80's. 

So that, currently, is the most significant impact of Trump - that the US has a giant target on its back and the rest of the world  thinks they're better off with a little less America...  But you know, Trump is a great deal maker.  I'm sure we'll be fine.  Especially if there is an attack, I'm sure we will experience a measured, considerate response - nothing like the ongoing quagmire of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Russia/USSR was never remotely close to being "one of the two best countries." Also there was this incident in the 80s and this incident in the 90s, though both were the result of Russia/USSR being a really shitty country.

Apparently, the general strategy of the Trump administration on NK was leaked recently:

The Trump administration has settled on its North Korea strategy after a two-month review: "Maximum pressure and engagement."

U.S. officials said Friday the president's advisers weighed a range of ideas for how to get North Korea to abandon its nuclear program, including military options and trying to overthrow the isolated communist dictatorship's leadership. At the other end of the spectrum, they looked at the notion of accepting North Korea as a nuclear state.

In the end, however, they settled on a policy that appears to represent continuity.

The administration's emphasis, the officials said, will be on increasing pressure on Pyongyang with the help of China, North Korea's dominant trade partner. The officials weren't authorized to speak publicly on the results of the policy review and requested anonymity....
But a U.S. military official, who requested anonymity to discuss planning, said the U.S. doesn't intend to use military force against North Korea in response to either a nuclear test or a missile launch. The official said plans could change in the unlikely event a North Korean missile targets South Korea, Japan or U.S. territory.



China and the US have now both warned NK to refrain from resuming missile or nuclear testing. The NYTimes has an interesting set of satellite imagery showing the extensive earth-works undertaken to prepare for what is presumed to be NK's imminent nuclear test, possibly of a much stronger boosted warhead. It will be interesting to see if the expensive preparation for this test is a bluff, or if not, if NK will proceed with it desptie the added pressure. A lack of a test soon out of NK would suggest progress, possibly brought about by US brinksmanship and increased Chinese diplomatic cooperation (if China wants to post funny pictures of Trump in exchange for cooperation, that's not a bad trade).



lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2959 on: April 15, 2017, 07:52:18 PM »
Bad news that NK attempted a launch but good news it failed. Now China and/or the US will have to respond somehow for ignoring the warnings against ongoing tests. If China doesn't step up, the US will either need to move more military assets into the area until China folds or apply secondary sanctions to Chinese companies doing business with NK, up to and including freezing Chinese banks engaged in business with NK out of the dollar exchange system. Both parties could ignore the attempted launch but that would look far too weak in light of the vigorous warnings, despite the test's failure.

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2960 on: April 16, 2017, 10:52:16 AM »
As long as nobody accidentally blows an American warship out of the water everything will be ok.

I'm trying to imagine the American reaction if China sent a task force into the Caribbean as a show of force.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2961 on: April 16, 2017, 01:00:25 PM »
^I'm not sure if that's some impossibly contorted effort to suggest an unfair disparity in moral equivalence between China and the US in pursuit of geopolitical aims. That would be a fair comparison...if only Cuba and the Dominican Republic were China's allies and Haiti had nuclear bombs and was threatening to use them on Cuba, the Dominican Republic, and Shanghai.

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2962 on: April 16, 2017, 07:26:06 PM »
I don't think US has the moral high ground these days.  China's geopolitical aims are no more obnoxious than America's.

The similarities to the Cuban missile crisis in the 60's are interesting though.    The US had stationed ballistic missiles in Turkey and Italy, close to the USSR.   In response, the USSR stationed missiles in Cuba.   The US escalated further with a blockade of Cuba.   In the end both the USSR and the US agreed to dismantle their 'strategic' weapons in these locations.   source  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

Today we have the US retaliating to North Korean threats by moving military forces into the sea of Japan.   How would you respond if you were the Chinese government?

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2963 on: April 16, 2017, 08:45:54 PM »
Russia/USSR was never remotely close to being "one of the two best countries." Also there was this incident in the 80s and this incident in the 90s, though both were the result of Russia/USSR being a really shitty country.

Apparently, the general strategy of the Trump administration on NK was leaked recently (snip)

Thanks for the interesting links LostITEA.  Is it a bad thing I'm on edge going in to another week where literally anything geo-politically is possible?  Maybe Trump sends a Tweet that finally pushes the Far East over the edge and they just decide it's best to cut their losses and instead work together against an unpredictable, unaccommodating, and generally bullying West.  Maybe it was better not knowing when the world was balanced on a knife edge at one point?  But then again, past that one point I had assumed that at least there were professionals making life or death decisions for the general populace, but that is out the window.  Trump spends way too much time at Mar-a-Lago for anyone to think he is taking his job or the future of America seriously.  And apparently we are complacent that wars get started by people that have no concept of history or compromise.  Bombing places that he isn't even conversationally aware of their location or significance - terrifying. 
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Lagom

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2964 on: April 17, 2017, 12:11:19 AM »
^^ Indeed, I will be glad if Trump's terrifying unpredictability somehow leads to increased peace and security, but from what we know now, it's pretty clear such an outcome will be mostly a result of blind luck, especially since he is already giddily warmongering as much as any of his predecessors regarding the Middle East.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 12:19:56 AM by Lagom »

GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2965 on: April 17, 2017, 06:08:25 AM »
^I'm not sure if that's some impossibly contorted effort to suggest an unfair disparity in moral equivalence between China and the US in pursuit of geopolitical aims. That would be a fair comparison...if only Cuba and the Dominican Republic were China's allies and Haiti had nuclear bombs and was threatening to use them on Cuba, the Dominican Republic, and Shanghai.

Could you list all the immoral stuff you think that the government of China commits that hasn't also been committed by the United States in the past 30 years?

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2966 on: April 17, 2017, 09:57:02 AM »
As long as nobody accidentally blows an American warship out of the water everything will be ok.

I'm trying to imagine the American reaction if China sent a task force into the Caribbean as a show of force.

This is what I keep thinking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

Let's tease the crazy dictator of NK until he does something? Is that really a good idea?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 02:39:34 PM by Tasty Pinecones »

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2967 on: April 17, 2017, 11:13:11 AM »
John Oliver did a piece on Nuclear Weapons in 2014 -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y1ya-yF35g.  Interesting history on America almost nuking itself in 1961 (the Goldsboro Incident),  He'd probably be a little embarassed to see the final comment hoping that the US intentionally deploys a nuke as opposed to humanity's final word being 'oops'.  Really hope Trump doesn't see this episode on re-run...
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MDM

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2968 on: April 17, 2017, 05:03:35 PM »
Could you list all the immoral stuff you think that the government of China commits that hasn't also been committed by the United States in the past 30 years?

Perhaps China's One-child policy?  E.g.,
Quote
As part of the policy, women were required to have a contraceptive intrauterine device (IUD) surgically installed after having a first child, and to be sterilized by tubal ligation after having a second child. From 1980 to 2014, 324 million Chinese women were fitted with IUDs in this way and 107 million were sterilized. Women who refused these procedures – which many resented – could lose their government employment and their children could lose access to education or health services. The IUDs installed in this way were modified such that they could not be removed manually, but only through surgery.

JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2969 on: April 17, 2017, 06:19:53 PM »
^^ Indeed, I will be glad if Trump's terrifying unpredictability somehow leads to increased peace and security, but from what we know now, it's pretty clear such an outcome will be mostly a result of blind luck, especially since he is already giddily warmongering as much as any of his predecessors regarding the Middle East.

I wonder how excited he was to use the biggest bomb ever.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2970 on: April 17, 2017, 06:44:09 PM »
Russia/USSR was never remotely close to being "one of the two best countries." Also there was this incident in the 80s and this incident in the 90s, though both were the result of Russia/USSR being a really shitty country.

Apparently, the general strategy of the Trump administration on NK was leaked recently (snip)

Thanks for the interesting links LostITEA.  Is it a bad thing I'm on edge going in to another week where literally anything geo-politically is possible?  Maybe Trump sends a Tweet that finally pushes the Far East over the edge and they just decide it's best to cut their losses and instead work together against an unpredictable, unaccommodating, and generally bullying West.  Maybe it was better not knowing when the world was balanced on a knife edge at one point?  But then again, past that one point I had assumed that at least there were professionals making life or death decisions for the general populace, but that is out the window.  Trump spends way too much time at Mar-a-Lago for anyone to think he is taking his job or the future of America seriously.  And apparently we are complacent that wars get started by people that have no concept of history or compromise.  Bombing places that he isn't even conversationally aware of their location or significance - terrifying.
Recent events have reassured me rather than terrified me. Assuming the story on the administration's leaked NK policy is true, it is the result of 2 months of deliberation over a wide range of available options. Rather than live up to his reputation for impulsiveness, such a review process suggests the emergence of a carefully considered policy from Trump's administration (yes, it's bad that Trump is so daft but fortunately he has some good people advising him). As mentioned before, even Obama was running out of hope for strategic patience, with the current facts on the ground constraining plausible courses of action on NK such that they transcend standard ideological divides.

^I'm not sure if that's some impossibly contorted effort to suggest an unfair disparity in moral equivalence between China and the US in pursuit of geopolitical aims. That would be a fair comparison...if only Cuba and the Dominican Republic were China's allies and Haiti had nuclear bombs and was threatening to use them on Cuba, the Dominican Republic, and Shanghai.

Could you list all the immoral stuff you think that the government of China commits that hasn't also been committed by the United States in the past 30 years?
My point was the scenario described by scottish was not a fair comparison because none of the salient conditions that exist in northeast Asia exist in the Caribbean. Even if we assume moral equivalence between China and the US (which I don't think is true, but I'm being generous to China), the analogy fails on the basis of the difference between the present and historical differences between those two regions.


Hey, what happened to the Trump supporters that used to post on this thread--did y'all chase them out? It would be interesting to get a different perspective on Trump's foreign policy pivot towards one that is diametrically opposed to his campaign promises. Meanwhile, the reactions of some on the left exhibit a fair amount cognitive dissonance (adherence to ideological purity shaves at least 20 IQ points off of a person).

GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2971 on: April 17, 2017, 07:36:33 PM »
Could you list all the immoral stuff you think that the government of China commits that hasn't also been committed by the United States in the past 30 years?

Perhaps China's One-child policy?  E.g.,
Quote
As part of the policy, women were required to have a contraceptive intrauterine device (IUD) surgically installed after having a first child, and to be sterilized by tubal ligation after having a second child. From 1980 to 2014, 324 million Chinese women were fitted with IUDs in this way and 107 million were sterilized. Women who refused these procedures – which many resented – could lose their government employment and their children could lose access to education or health services. The IUDs installed in this way were modified such that they could not be removed manually, but only through surgery.

The Chinese government doesn't follow the one child policy any more.

That said, it doesn't sound significantly worse than the United States program of coerced sterilization that went on in the 50's in Puerto Rico.  Or the routine sterilizations of poor black women that went on in the late 60's.  Or the forced sterilization of native women in the 1970s (http://muse.jhu.edu/article/200).

Remember how influential American ideas and enactment of eugenics policies were to the Nazis?  (http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Eugenics-and-the-Nazis-the-California-2549771.php)

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2972 on: April 17, 2017, 07:39:47 PM »
The US seems to be slowly deteriorating as a progressive society whilst China is slowly improving.    I still prefer the US, but the gap seems to get smaller every year.

Could you list all the immoral stuff you think that the government of China commits that hasn't also been committed by the United States in the past 30 years?

Perhaps China's One-child policy?  E.g.,
Quote
As part of the policy, women were required to have a contraceptive intrauterine device (IUD) surgically installed after having a first child, and to be sterilized by tubal ligation after having a second child. From 1980 to 2014, 324 million Chinese women were fitted with IUDs in this way and 107 million were sterilized. Women who refused these procedures – which many resented – could lose their government employment and their children could lose access to education or health services. The IUDs installed in this way were modified such that they could not be removed manually, but only through surgery.

While China was pursuing a one child policy, certain states seem to be pursuing a multiple child policy by restricting access to family planning and abortion.     I think we see a little bit of this in the maritimes in Canada as well.    I find the contrasts stark.

And Canada also had forced sterilization programs after WW2.   It was not just the US.

MDM

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2973 on: April 17, 2017, 08:41:34 PM »
The Chinese government doesn't follow the one child policy any more.
So that makes it all better, eh?  Just say "we're sorry" and everything is all better?

Quote
That said, it doesn't sound significantly worse than the United States program of coerced sterilization that went on in the 50's in Puerto Rico.  Or the routine sterilizations of poor black women that went on in the late 60's.  Or the forced sterilization of native women in the 1970s (http://muse.jhu.edu/article/200).
So A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic?  Just my opinion, but hundreds of millions women affected seems pretty tragic.

Quote
Remember how influential American ideas and enactment of eugenics policies were to the Nazis?  (http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Eugenics-and-the-Nazis-the-California-2549771.php)
Appreciate your opinion that a few Americans were so influential, but I suspect Hitler and his merry men would have done their deeds regardless.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2974 on: April 18, 2017, 07:32:55 AM »
The one child policy helped to lift China out of exploding population growth and enable hundreds of millions of Chinese to be lifted up out of poverty.

MDM

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2975 on: April 18, 2017, 08:30:41 AM »
The one child policy helped to lift China out of exploding population growth and enable hundreds of millions of Chinese to be lifted up out of poverty.
Would you support Trump if he were to propose a similar policy here?

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2976 on: April 18, 2017, 09:04:42 AM »
The one child policy helped to lift China out of exploding population growth and enable hundreds of millions of Chinese to be lifted up out of poverty.
Would you support Trump if he were to propose a similar policy here?
The One Child policy obviously had major problems. But, I would support it if the GOP, say, didn't actively work against sex education and family planning services so that Americans can make informed decisions about when and how many children they have. The level of understanding on this in many populations in our country is pretty scary and leads to a lot of unwanted/unplanned/extra pregnancies. IMO the sweet spot on this is in the middle. It is not a false choice as you have framed it.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2977 on: April 18, 2017, 02:11:52 PM »
My staunchly republican grandfather pointed this out over Easter:

Right now Trump and Kim Jong-un are locked in some high stakes political theatre.  Of the two, Jong-un has several times more military and political experience. That's frightening.
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JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2978 on: April 18, 2017, 09:53:37 PM »
The one child policy helped to lift China out of exploding population growth and enable hundreds of millions of Chinese to be lifted up out of poverty.
Would you support Trump if he were to propose a similar policy here?
The One Child policy obviously had major problems. But, I would support it if the GOP, say, didn't actively work against sex education and family planning services so that Americans can make informed decisions about when and how many children they have. The level of understanding on this in many populations in our country is pretty scary and leads to a lot of unwanted/unplanned/extra pregnancies. IMO the sweet spot on this is in the middle. It is not a false choice as you have framed it.

Like Colorado: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/science/colorados-push-against-teenage-pregnancies-is-a-startling-success.html

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2979 on: April 18, 2017, 11:24:18 PM »
In a way, the Trump family (Donald Jr, Eric, Ivanka, and Melania) are very much like a parody on the fabled Kennedy family.  Kinda' like how Duck Dynasty became a thing.  The majority is in the minority, and pumping them full of optimism in the middle class rising again, well it's been a formula for success so far....
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2980 on: April 19, 2017, 05:59:38 AM »
The Chinese government doesn't follow the one child policy any more.
So that makes it all better, eh?  Just say "we're sorry" and everything is all better?

No, it doesn't make it better.  I didn't say that it did.  It does demonstrate my point, which is that the US and China have disturbing similarities (they both decided to enforce large scale breeding programs in the past).  China did it in hopes of controlling population, the US did it for racial superiority reasons.

Quote
That said, it doesn't sound significantly worse than the United States program of coerced sterilization that went on in the 50's in Puerto Rico.  Or the routine sterilizations of poor black women that went on in the late 60's.  Or the forced sterilization of native women in the 1970s (http://muse.jhu.edu/article/200).
So A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic?  Just my opinion, but hundreds of millions women affected seems pretty tragic.

Any women affected are pretty tragic.  I'm not apologizing for China, I'm demonstrating for the apparently ignorant Americans in this thread that the country they are claiming has moral superiority has a history of doing the things they're condemning China for.

Quote
Remember how influential American ideas and enactment of eugenics policies were to the Nazis?  (http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Eugenics-and-the-Nazis-the-California-2549771.php)
Appreciate your opinion that a few Americans were so influential, but I suspect Hitler and his merry men would have done their deeds regardless.
[/quote]

Yeah, Hitler probably would have.  But again, it doesn't change the fact that Hitler's ideas were quite popular in the United States prior to WWII.


As has been mentioned, Canada has a history of doing bad stuff in the name of eugenics too.  I'm trying to point out that the (apparently commonly held by Americans) belief in the moral superiority of the United States comes more from jingoism than reality.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2981 on: April 19, 2017, 07:21:06 AM »
As a Trump supporter, I definitely disagree with his recent bombings. With that said, I think he gets far too much criticism than he deserves. I mean, c'mon, people were calling for his impeachment before he even took office. A little ridiculous.

As Sean Spicer (who I think is awesome) said, "if the president puts Russian salad dressing on his salad tonight, somehow that's a Russian connection."

And the thing that the left doesn't seem to get is that the CONSTANT barrage of pretty ridiculous, petty claims about anyone right of Elizabeth Warren is the reason Trump was elected. Not racism, not misogyny, not white privilege. It's because people are sick of being told that they're racist, homophobes, xenophobes, misogynistic, and that they owe the world because they're not a minority.

Instead of realizing the reality of the situation, people (particularly antifa) are starting to get violent towards conservatives. It will only recruit more people to the right, and further make this a Republican nation. The same people who think they're fighting against Trump are the reason he was elected.

I wanted Rand Paul, for what it's worth.

kellyincville

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2982 on: April 19, 2017, 08:09:46 AM »
Sean Spicer (who I think is awesome)

I am truly speechless.  I think you may be the only person in America who thinks that man is "awesome".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ9vt1Kbrp4

sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2983 on: April 19, 2017, 08:20:32 AM »
Instead of realizing the reality of the situation, people (particularly antifa) are starting to get violent towards conservatives.

Can you please explain the term "antifa" to me, as you understand it?

Because to me, that word means "anti-fascists" and is basically synonymous with "good people who believe in equality and thus oppose the type of fascism that was so popular during WWII".  Fascists hate democracy.  Fascists thought WWI was awesome, and wanted a repeat performance.  Fascists used violence against their fellow citizens to coerce support for their authoritarian dictators.  Fascists suck.  Being anti-fascist is awesome.  By this definition, we should ALL be anti-fascists.

And yet some folks, like you apparently, use the term "antifa" in a derogatory manner to belittle and demean people who oppose fascism.  So that means you support fascism?  Usually, I hear that word from people like Richard Spencer, who makes a living going on television and saying outrageous things about what a great guy Hitler was.  I find it almost shocking to hear that word in any other context outside of blatantly inflammatory bigotry designed to offend people.  Is that your intent here, too?

I won't even address the rest of your post until this issue is cleared up first, because if you're just here to troll people (as your use of the word "antifa" suggests) then there's little point in arguing with your content.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2984 on: April 19, 2017, 08:22:41 AM »
The one child policy helped to lift China out of exploding population growth and enable hundreds of millions of Chinese to be lifted up out of poverty.
Would you support Trump if he were to propose a similar policy here?
The One Child policy obviously had major problems. But, I would support it if the GOP, say, didn't actively work against sex education and family planning services so that Americans can make informed decisions about when and how many children they have. The level of understanding on this in many populations in our country is pretty scary and leads to a lot of unwanted/unplanned/extra pregnancies. IMO the sweet spot on this is in the middle. It is not a false choice as you have framed it.

Like Colorado: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/science/colorados-push-against-teenage-pregnancies-is-a-startling-success.html

Wow excellent article !!   This statistic jumped out at me, "half of the 6.6 million pregnancies a year in the United States are unintended"

Overall implants and IUD's helped to lift women out of poverty.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2985 on: April 19, 2017, 08:24:30 AM »
Sean Spicer (who I think is awesome)

I am truly speechless.  I think you may be the only person in America who thinks that man is "awesome".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ9vt1Kbrp4
He misspoke. He said Hitler was despicable. Stating that he's endorsing Hitler or denying the Holocaust is ridiculous. Just a not-well-thought-out comment. Nothing more, nothing less.

I like him because he's not afraid to tel the truth. He's not afraid to confront the media when they tell lies and make up controversies. Instead of being a lifeless drone, he tries to be as transparent as possible, and say what him and Trump's voters truly believe in.

But instead of listening to the right, people on the left just want to make mountains out of every little mole hill they see, only pushing more people away from their cause.

Rather than learning from this election (which was a big f u from the working class in this country), people are becoming more ridiculous and more violent.

I mean, Spicer really started getting attacked when he made the comment about the crowd size at Trump's inauguration. Then CNN and all these other media outlets started calling him a liar, and turning people against him. I don't quite remember the exact time, but the photos taken as "proof" the crowds were small was taken at something like 6am. Well before masses started showing up. That's fake news. And Spicer is the bad guy for calling them out?

But, I'm sure that you'll just brush it off, and not listen to me in saying why it is that I, and many other Trump supporters, like guys like Spicer. And because of that, not seeing it from our perspective, you, like many others, will fall into the same trap again. And Trump will be reelected. The 2018 elections will be a blowout in favor of the right.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2986 on: April 19, 2017, 08:26:51 AM »
It's because people are sick of being told that they're racist, homophobes, xenophobes, misogynistic, and that they owe the world because they're not a minority.

It's because they want a good story, and to feel good about themselves. It's the one thing Trump might be good at. His narrative unified enough people in the right places to win the Electoral College, but no more than that.

It doesn't matter that the things he says aren't true, or that he's advocating policies harmful to people outside his tribe. At least not to him and his tribe.

It's literally the worst of human nature exploited to consolidate political power.

Sean Spicer (who I think is awesome)

I am truly speechless.  I think you may be the only person in America who thinks that man is "awesome".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ9vt1Kbrp4
He misspoke. He said Hitler was despicable. Stating that he's endorsing Hitler or denying the Holocaust is ridiculous. Just a not-well-thought-out comment. Nothing more, nothing less.

I like him because he's not afraid to tel the truth. He's not afraid to confront the media when they tell lies and make up controversies. Instead of being a lifeless drone, he tries to be as transparent as possible, and say what him and Trump's voters truly believe in.

See above. Spicer isn't being particularly truthful in the objective sense. He's being true to the narrative.

Someone who was objectively truthful would've simply apologized for misspeaking and left it at that. Spicer floundered for at least 60 seconds trying to justify what he said. It was painful to watch.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2987 on: April 19, 2017, 08:28:14 AM »
Instead of realizing the reality of the situation, people (particularly antifa) are starting to get violent towards conservatives.

Can you please explain the term "antifa" to me, as you understand it?

Because to me, that word means "anti-fascists" and is basically synonymous with "good people who believe in equality and thus oppose the type of fascism that was so popular during WWII".  Fascists hate democracy.  Fascists thought WWI was awesome, and wanted a repeat performance.  Fascists used violence against their fellow citizens to coerce support for their authoritarian dictators.  Fascists suck.  Being anti-fascist is awesome.  By this definition, we should ALL be anti-fascists.

And yet some folks, like you apparently, use the term "antifa" in a derogatory manner to belittle and demean people who oppose fascism.  So that means you support fascism?  Usually, I hear that word from people like Richard Spencer, who makes a living going on television and saying outrageous things about what a great guy Hitler was.  I find it almost shocking to hear that word in any other context outside of blatantly inflammatory bigotry designed to offend people.  Is that your intent here, too?

I won't even address the rest of your post until this issue is cleared up first, because if you're just here to troll people (as your use of the word "antifa" suggests) then there's little point in arguing with your content.
Sorry, I forgot to capitalize. I meant Antifa, the group. The ones that are destroying Berkley, and any other place a conservative dare step into to speak.

But I'm sure you'll tell me that throwing M-80's at people, hitting them with bats, breaking windows, and burning down cars and even businesses is "peaceful", or that it's fake news. It's not. The videos don't lie.

Don't even get me started on their political ideology. They're not against fascists, they're against anyone that doesn't subscribe to every little tenant of their beliefs. There is absolutely nothing about the Trump administration that screams fascist any more than any other President we've had over the last 200 years.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2988 on: April 19, 2017, 08:31:54 AM »
Sean Spicer (who I think is awesome)

I am truly speechless.  I think you may be the only person in America who thinks that man is "awesome".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ9vt1Kbrp4
He misspoke. He said Hitler was despicable. Stating that he's endorsing Hitler or denying the Holocaust is ridiculous. Just a not-well-thought-out comment. Nothing more, nothing less.

I like him because he's not afraid to tel the truth. He's not afraid to confront the media when they tell lies and make up controversies. Instead of being a lifeless drone, he tries to be as transparent as possible, and say what him and Trump's voters truly believe in.

But instead of listening to the right, people on the left just want to make mountains out of every little mole hill they see, only pushing more people away from their cause.

Rather than learning from this election (which was a big f u from the working class in this country), people are becoming more ridiculous and more violent.

I mean, Spicer really started getting attacked when he made the comment about the crowd size at Trump's inauguration. Then CNN and all these other media outlets started calling him a liar, and turning people against him. I don't quite remember the exact time, but the photos taken as "proof" the crowds were small was taken at something like 6am. Well before masses started showing up. That's fake news. And Spicer is the bad guy for calling them out?

But, I'm sure that you'll just brush it off, and not listen to me in saying why it is that I, and many other Trump supporters, like guys like Spicer. And because of that, not seeing it from our perspective, you, like many others, will fall into the same trap again. And Trump will be reelected. The 2018 elections will be a blowout in favor of the right.

Oh, man. This is just so sad.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2989 on: April 19, 2017, 08:34:35 AM »

It's because they want a good story, and to feel good about themselves. It's the one thing Trump might be good at. His narrative unified enough people in the right places to win the Electoral College, but no more than that.

It doesn't matter that the things he says aren't true, or that he's advocating policies harmful to people outside his tribe. At least not to him and his tribe.

It's literally the worst of human nature exploited to consolidate political power.

And that's what the left believes. They think the right is full of uneducated sheep that are always so susceptible to being exploited and lied to.

But the left fails to realize that that kind of insulting rhetoric is exactly why Trump was elected. The left would rather shame and name-call than discuss the issues. They'd rather shut down rallies than respectfully disagree. Whether it's Trump, Milo, Shapiro, or any number of people, the left chooses to silence and be violent, and then they wonder why people voted against them.

All I'm saying is that, until people genuinely understand why conservatives truly elected Trump, the right will continue to become bigger and bigger every day.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2990 on: April 19, 2017, 08:40:09 AM »
Sean Spicer (who I think is awesome)

I am truly speechless.  I think you may be the only person in America who thinks that man is "awesome".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ9vt1Kbrp4
He misspoke. He said Hitler was despicable. Stating that he's endorsing Hitler or denying the Holocaust is ridiculous. Just a not-well-thought-out comment. Nothing more, nothing less.

I like him because he's not afraid to tel the truth. He's not afraid to confront the media when they tell lies and make up controversies. Instead of being a lifeless drone, he tries to be as transparent as possible, and say what him and Trump's voters truly believe in.

But instead of listening to the right, people on the left just want to make mountains out of every little mole hill they see, only pushing more people away from their cause.

Rather than learning from this election (which was a big f u from the working class in this country), people are becoming more ridiculous and more violent.

I mean, Spicer really started getting attacked when he made the comment about the crowd size at Trump's inauguration. Then CNN and all these other media outlets started calling him a liar, and turning people against him. I don't quite remember the exact time, but the photos taken as "proof" the crowds were small was taken at something like 6am. Well before masses started showing up. That's fake news. And Spicer is the bad guy for calling them out?

But, I'm sure that you'll just brush it off, and not listen to me in saying why it is that I, and many other Trump supporters, like guys like Spicer. And because of that, not seeing it from our perspective, you, like many others, will fall into the same trap again. And Trump will be reelected. The 2018 elections will be a blowout in favor of the right.

Oh, man. This is just so sad.
Why is that? People always wonder just how Trump got elected, and why people voted for him. I'm trying to explain why I did, but I'm just met with people either not addressing my points, or calling me names almost every time I do.

But then people wonder why Trump won. It's precisely because conservatives were thrown to the curb to be discarded. Only to be picked up and cleaned off by Trump. It's why he won the rust belt. Why his message resonated so greatly with the trade-heavy liberal states.

Trump didn't win because of conservatives, he won because liberals pushed conservatives too far. Rather than understand that, people are just becoming more and more ridiculous. How do liberals expect conservatives to see the light of their ideology if all we see if women pouring period blood on themselves, masked thugs smashing windows, and people calling us names?

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2991 on: April 19, 2017, 08:44:23 AM »


All I'm saying is that, until people genuinely understand why conservatives truly elected Trump, the right will continue to become bigger and bigger every day.

We already know why conservatives truly elected Trump, because they are anti-abortion, want the freedom to discriminate against minorities, and prevent gay people from gaining the right to employment non-discrimination.

A lot of people who voted for Trump are not conservative, they have been misled by populist rhetoric, and when they realize they have been conned, like when they lose health insurance, or grasp that the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back for them, they won't be voting for him in 2020.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2992 on: April 19, 2017, 08:49:42 AM »

It's because they want a good story, and to feel good about themselves. It's the one thing Trump might be good at. His narrative unified enough people in the right places to win the Electoral College, but no more than that.

It doesn't matter that the things he says aren't true, or that he's advocating policies harmful to people outside his tribe. At least not to him and his tribe.

It's literally the worst of human nature exploited to consolidate political power.

And that's what the left believes. They think the right is full of uneducated sheep that are always so susceptible to being exploited and lied to.

But the left fails to realize that that kind of insulting rhetoric is exactly why Trump was elected. The left would rather shame and name-call than discuss the issues. They'd rather shut down rallies than respectfully disagree. Whether it's Trump, Milo, Shapiro, or any number of people, the left chooses to silence and be violent, and then they wonder why people voted against them.

All I'm saying is that, until people genuinely understand why conservatives truly elected Trump, the right will continue to become bigger and bigger every day.

Are you misinterpreting what I said on purpose? Or is it unintentional?

I never said anything about the people who voted for him being uneducated sheep. You did.

The fact remains, the Trump narrative is carefully crafted and chooses its facts.

The inauguration crowd count is a perfect microcosm of the narrative in action. You're even doing it here, "the right will continue to become bigger and bigger" presumes that there are more people in "the right" than there were before, and that it's growing. It doesn't matter if it's true, keep shouting it to rally the troops. It's myth in the traditional sense (think Rome).
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2993 on: April 19, 2017, 08:58:45 AM »
Sean Spicer (who I think is awesome)

I am truly speechless.  I think you may be the only person in America who thinks that man is "awesome".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ9vt1Kbrp4
He misspoke. He said Hitler was despicable. Stating that he's endorsing Hitler or denying the Holocaust is ridiculous. Just a not-well-thought-out comment. Nothing more, nothing less.

I like him because he's not afraid to tel the truth. He's not afraid to confront the media when they tell lies and make up controversies. Instead of being a lifeless drone, he tries to be as transparent as possible, and say what him and Trump's voters truly believe in.

There are two things here that I stronlgy disagree with: 1) that Sean Spicer tells the truth and that 2) he offers a greater level of transparency than other WH press secretaries.

There are numerous instances when Spicer has pushed a narrative that directly contradicts easily obtainable facts.  A few instances include his insistence that DJT's inaugeration was the most attended in history, that he received the most electoral votes of any candidate since Reagan and that Paul Manafort played a very limited role in the campaign.  All of those statements are demonstrably false, yet he stood by each (and other claims) even after others brought up evidence contradicting him.
In regards to transparency, in his role as WH press secretary he's prohibited many of the largest media organizations from attending certain functions (nicknamed "gaggles") and has most recently denied requests for white house visitor logs - something his predecessors have provided.

I don't doubt that Spicer has been told to push these positions by his boss, but that doesn't make what he says truthful or transparent.

"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2994 on: April 19, 2017, 09:03:38 AM »
Sean Spicer (who I think is awesome)

I am truly speechless.  I think you may be the only person in America who thinks that man is "awesome".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ9vt1Kbrp4
He misspoke. He said Hitler was despicable. Stating that he's endorsing Hitler or denying the Holocaust is ridiculous. Just a not-well-thought-out comment. Nothing more, nothing less.

I like him because he's not afraid to tel the truth. He's not afraid to confront the media when they tell lies and make up controversies. Instead of being a lifeless drone, he tries to be as transparent as possible, and say what him and Trump's voters truly believe in.

There are two things here that I stronlgy disagree with: 1) that Sean Spicer tells the truth and that 2) he offers a greater level of transparency than other WH press secretaries.

There are numerous instances when Spicer has pushed a narrative that directly contradicts easily obtainable facts.  A few instances include his insistence that DJT's inaugeration was the most attended in history, that he received the most electoral votes of any candidate since Reagan and that Paul Manafort played a very limited role in the campaign.  All of those statements are demonstrably false, yet he stood by each (and other claims) even after others brought up evidence contradicting him.
In regards to transparency, in his role as WH press secretary he's prohibited many of the largest media organizations from attending certain functions (nicknamed "gaggles") and has most recently denied requests for white house visitor logs - something his predecessors have provided.

I don't doubt that Spicer has been told to push these positions by his boss, but that doesn't make what he says truthful or transparent.

Calling their own actions "truthful" and "transparent" is also part of the narrative.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2995 on: April 19, 2017, 09:15:31 AM »


All I'm saying is that, until people genuinely understand why conservatives truly elected Trump, the right will continue to become bigger and bigger every day.

We already know why conservatives truly elected Trump, because they are anti-abortion, want the freedom to discriminate against minorities, and prevent gay people from gaining the right to employment non-discrimination.

A lot of people who voted for Trump are not conservative, they have been misled by populist rhetoric, and when they realize they have been conned, like when they lose health insurance, or grasp that the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back for them, they won't be voting for him in 2020.
But what you don't realize is that by insulting conservatives and boiling down many of their well-thought-out reasons to what YOU incorrectly identify as the actual ones, you're only turning them away.

I always think it's funny when people (not saying you) try to tell me why I voted for Trump. They'll say stuff like, "you homophobic Christian", not realizing that I'm both pro-gay marriage, and also an atheist. But even after I say that, they'll just find other names to call me.

Nothing will change unless people stop slandering each other. Neither people on the left or the right are big, bad boogeymen. Maybe, just maybe, people voted for Trump because they believe in his policies.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2996 on: April 19, 2017, 09:29:17 AM »

Nothing will change unless people stop slandering each other. Neither people on the left or the right are big, bad boogeymen. Maybe, just maybe, people voted for Trump because they believe in his policies.

Does that extend to not saying things like?

He's not afraid to confront the media when they tell lies and make up controversies.

And this? There were numerous photos taken from a variety of vantage points throughout the day, all telling the same story.

I mean, Spicer really started getting attacked when he made the comment about the crowd size at Trump's inauguration. Then CNN and all these other media outlets started calling him a liar, and turning people against him. I don't quite remember the exact time, but the photos taken as "proof" the crowds were small was taken at something like 6am. Well before masses started showing up. That's fake news. And Spicer is the bad guy for calling them out?

Or does it only apply to people who disagree with (thus "slandering") the tribe?
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2997 on: April 19, 2017, 09:38:57 AM »

And this? There were numerous photos taken from a variety of vantage points throughout the day, all telling the same story.


No, the ones taken later in the day, while obviously not showing the biggest attendance in history, shows the media's attempt to suggest that he's so unpopular that only a few people came is simply not true. Or what about the rape allegations. Or people claiming that Trump's list (not his list) purposely didn't include countries he does business with. Or the Russian hacking allegations. Or the claim that he said that immigrants are rapists. Or the claim that he broke tax laws. Or that he's a sexual predator. All lies or unsubstantiated claims. All perpetuated by the left.

Unique User

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2998 on: April 19, 2017, 09:39:47 AM »


All I'm saying is that, until people genuinely understand why conservatives truly elected Trump, the right will continue to become bigger and bigger every day.

We already know why conservatives truly elected Trump, because they are anti-abortion, want the freedom to discriminate against minorities, and prevent gay people from gaining the right to employment non-discrimination.

A lot of people who voted for Trump are not conservative, they have been misled by populist rhetoric, and when they realize they have been conned, like when they lose health insurance, or grasp that the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back for them, they won't be voting for him in 2020.
But what you don't realize is that by insulting conservatives and boiling down many of their well-thought-out reasons to what YOU incorrectly identify as the actual ones, you're only turning them away.

I always think it's funny when people (not saying you) try to tell me why I voted for Trump. They'll say stuff like, "you homophobic Christian", not realizing that I'm both pro-gay marriage, and also an atheist. But even after I say that, they'll just find other names to call me.

Nothing will change unless people stop slandering each other. Neither people on the left or the right are big, bad boogeymen. Maybe, just maybe, people voted for Trump because they believe in his policies.

What policies?  Jobs, bringing manufacturing back?  Deporting illegals so that Americans can have the jobs picking crops?  Just because you voted for him for a certain reason does not mean everyone did for the same reasons you did.  Many people voted because they believed his lies. I know one person that voted for him because they assumed he would be impeached and didn't want the Clintons back in the White House.  But assuming that everyone voted for him for the same reason you did just proves the right wing echo chamber theory.  Both the left and the right have their share of hypocrites, but unfortunately the GOP has a much higher percentage.  Someone else posted earlier about partisan support of Obama action on Syria and Trump action on Syria and the Dem support was about the same for both.  GOP, not so much. 

I do think it is interesting to hear Trump supporters continually claim that the conservative right is getting bigger and bigger and 2018 will result in more GOP wins in the House and Senate.  This is only anecdotal, but I've spoken with many people since the election and many Independents voted for Republican House and Senate candidates since they thought Hilary was going to win and they are horrified at Trump. 

Spicer truthful and transparent?  That does not even deserve a response.  My Independent self and my Republican husband had a bet going right now whether Trump will be forced out by impeachment or RICO.  I find it incredibly hard to believe that due to his greed, vengeful nature and disrespect for the rule of law that he will even finish his term, much less a second term. 

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2999 on: April 19, 2017, 09:40:36 AM »
Maybe, just maybe, people voted for Trump because they believe in his policies.

Trump is not a policy driven person, he's driven by his narcissistic need for adulation and praise. Trump doesn't understand policy, his policy thoughts are self-contradictory. Trump understands publicity, press coverage, ratings, and the art of the con. Trump likes gilded rooms, authoritarian leaders, showing off wealth, and obeisance from those around him.