Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 169220 times)

former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2850 on: March 24, 2017, 02:44:53 AM »

There is a lot of truth in this.  But it ignores the elephant in the room: the concerted efforts by Russia to influence the election through the leaking of emails and the torrent of disinformation ("fake news") from Russian bots on Facebook and Twitter which drowned out the normal social media content and replaced it with Hilary hatespeech targeted at Republicans and Bernie supporters.

Hilary was not a "terrible" candidate.  She had her flaws, as do all candidates, but she was a better candidate than Trump.  The fact that even someone sympathetic can describe her as terrible without a thought just indicates how all-pervasive the Russian disinformation campaign became.

I mean, "lock her up"?  And "we couldn't possibly have a Presidential candidate who is under FBI investigation"?  Tell me now, who was really the terrible candidate?

I would have mentioned Russia too, but my post was already getting very long. Also I'm kind of waiting to see what comes from the investigations. I agree - it's clear that Russian trolls (Internet Research Agency types) were all over reddit, for example, pushing anti-HRC stuff and pro Trump BS. My sense is that Russian involvement went way beyond just chatting with /paying off Manafort and others. Hopefully the investigations to come will clarify just what went down in those deals. The Rosnef sale looks bad, along with much else. Adam Schiff summed it up well in his testimony.

I'm saying she was strategically a "terrible" candidate - not because I bought into the propaganda against her, but because I personally knew so many who had. Sure, I didn't like some of her work as Sec of State, but I think she would have been a fine president. Obviously she was a better candidate than Trump. Hell, she was a better candidate than all of the ~17 GOP candidates. I would have voted for her over all of them.

When I wrote "terrible" I meant she was "possibly unelectable."  And you don't run a possibly-unelectable candidate against a monster like Trump. I mean, early on, they actually tried to push for Trump as their pied piper candidate. Gah.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that last paragraph.
The last paragraph was things said about Hillary during the campaign which are considerably more true of Trump in office than they ever were of Hillary as a candidate.

Hillary was not "possibly unelectable" until the Russians got after her with their insidious propaganda.  They are a lot smarter about their propaganda than they used to be - a lot of it is subtle and clever as well as some of it being obvious and crude.

I think Hillary's problem was that she tried to power through the campaign on her own terms without realising (how could she) just how significant the Russian propaganda campaign against her would be.  That meant that she took the high moral ground against Trump, rather than getting down in the muck with him.  I'm not sure whether any other approach would have done better, and until Comey fell for the Russian dirty tricks over the Weiner emails two weeks before election date it was working well enough.

Edited to add: it didn't help the Hillary was a woman and that apparently sexism is even more deeply ingrained in the USA than in most developed societies.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 02:47:07 AM by former player »
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Nick_Miller

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2851 on: March 24, 2017, 06:09:06 PM »
I just skimmed a few responses but I really just needed a place to post my thoughts.

I don't even know what to think anymore. He's been in office, what, 60 days or so and I can't keep track of the blunders, potential ethical violations, and short-sighted policy decisions. I pride myself on being a reasonable, thoughtful person, and I don't engage in hyperbole or troll folks on social media or call people names, but...this is f*cking crazy.

It's like (many) Republicans are willing to totally ignore the Russia issues because....well I guess because they don't like the "liberal media?" I mean, I honestly don't understand. What sort of thoughtful person says, "Nah I don't care about knowing more about all the Russia connections. Whatever they are all saying now can't possibly be true." You have the intelligence community getting involved front and center now. I mean, what, is EVERYONE lying BUT Trump?? He's the sole honest person? Seriously?

The whole "no evidence that feeding kids helps kids perform better" thing? WTF? I taught in public schools (for a short time) and I have many family members who work in schools. Kids come to school HUNGRY! They do!  How about you go to work hungry every day and see how well you perform??

And I'll close with this. I have voted for Republican presidents before, as recently as 2008 (yes I voted for McCain). I'm not some extreme person. But this administration has collected the absolutely WORST people  they could gather. EPA, Education, State, I could go on and onu. It's gotten to the point where I don't think I could even be a friend to someone who says, "Oh yeah this is all great! MAGA!!" I mean, we would have no shared values. What's the point?

Try being in my shoes - where you've described my dad, mom, MIL, BIL, SIL, other BIL and somewhat my brother. Every day I read the news. And no - I don't get outraged at the outrage pieces - I get outraged watching congressional hearings on CSPAN and outraged watching POTUS live tweet incoherent bullshit. I don't need pundits to spin me into anger. Reality is sufficient.

When I check in with the GOP members of my family, they've nothing but total approval for this administration. Why? Cuz liberals would bring bureaucracy and that's the ultimate evil. As if we're living in the 70s.

The GOP cult members in my family are unwilling to acknowledge how effective the GOP has been at cowing government agencies into streamlined efficiency. From SS admin to IRS, modern day agencies do a pretty good job. It's not the 1970s anymore. But that's what their news feeds tell them so it must be so and I'm naive for believing scientists and peer reviewed studies.

It's a daily struggle to keep from outright hating my family. Their support of this anit-science, anti-constitution, anti-democratic bullshit could be sowing the seeds of our country's - and perhaps our species - destruction.

Like you, Nick_Miller, I pride myself on being a rational, somewhat dispassionate thinker.  And yet look at what I just wrote in the paragraph above. If you'd shown that to me a year ago I wouldn't believe I wrote that. But it's what I've come to accept.

And I blame it all on the privately funded two party system and the rise of corporate personhood. The GOP is a cult,  but the DNC ain't so great either. Combine their skewed incentives with today's surgical propaganda tools and  the defunding of public education,  and I feel like representative liberal democracy is fucked. Hello authoritarian kleptocracy.

I usually stop myself saying this stuff because I sound like a crackpot. But when my dad emails me saying civil asset forfeiture is totally cool and that trumps doing a fine job and that he's optimistic this congress is going to get some great things done ... well I think I'm seeing things quite clearly.

edit: typos.

I hope it helps (a little) to know there are others like you out there in similar situations. Misery and company, and all that jazz. I do have a sane brother, so I guess I can brag about that a little.

dividendman

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2852 on: March 24, 2017, 06:46:39 PM »
Here's an impact: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/24/deportation-drama-enters-pro-trump-household-in-northern-indiana.html

TL;DR - pro Trump woman is upset because her undocumented (illegal) immigrant husband is getting deported. She says Trump said the "good people" would not be deported.

Another gem quote from this wife of an illegal:

Quote
"We were very happy he became the president. Whatever he says, he is right.

Man, I should read Fox News more often for gems like this.

wenchsenior

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2853 on: March 24, 2017, 06:53:55 PM »
Here's an impact: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/24/deportation-drama-enters-pro-trump-household-in-northern-indiana.html

TL;DR - pro Trump woman is upset because her undocumented (illegal) immigrant husband is getting deported. She says Trump said the "good people" would not be deported.

Another gem quote from this wife of an illegal:

Quote
"We were very happy he became the president. Whatever he says, he is right.

Man, I should read Fox News more often for gems like this.

Every once in a while I am reminded: There is just no cure for stupid.

teen persuasion

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2854 on: March 24, 2017, 09:26:02 PM »
Here's an impact: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/24/deportation-drama-enters-pro-trump-household-in-northern-indiana.html

TL;DR - pro Trump woman is upset because her undocumented (illegal) immigrant husband is getting deported. She says Trump said the "good people" would not be deported.

Another gem quote from this wife of an illegal:

Quote
"We were very happy he became the president. Whatever he says, he is right.

Man, I should read Fox News more often for gems like this.

Quote
during a family trip to Niagara Falls, he inadvertently crossed the border into Canada.   

How do you inadvertently cross the border at NF?  You'd have to cross one of the three bridges on the Niagara river.  There are giant signs everywhere, and you go thru customs.  You don't just wander over the border there.

DoubleDown

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2855 on: March 25, 2017, 09:23:29 AM »
You don't just wander over the border there.



Sorry, couldn't resist!

ETA: Just wanted to add I know how to spell; our buddy Boromir famously says in the movie, "One does not simply walk into Mordor." Get it? Mordor? Bor-dor? And if you have to explain a joke, it usually means it really sucks...
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 09:26:53 AM by DoubleDown »
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Abe

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2856 on: March 25, 2017, 04:08:55 PM »
Quote from: teen persuasion link=topic=64129.msg1488943#msg1488943
How do you inadvertently cross the border at NF?  You'd have to cross one of the three bridges on the Niagara river.  There are giant signs everywhere, and you go thru customs.  You don't just wander over the border there.

Barrel. Over falls.

rosaz

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2857 on: March 27, 2017, 11:04:39 AM »
Quote from: teen persuasion link=topic=64129.msg1488943#msg1488943
How do you inadvertently cross the border at NF?  You'd have to cross one of the three bridges on the Niagara river.  There are giant signs everywhere, and you go thru customs.  You don't just wander over the border there.

Barrel. Over falls.

I hate it when I do that.

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2858 on: March 29, 2017, 03:30:59 PM »
The New York times has observed that many of Trump's policies are actually not making America great again but are in effect making America less significant.

The push back to fossil fuels and away from green energy sources will tend to push the US away from leading edge energy technologies and back to the days of coal dust and smog.

Abandoning the TPP puts China in a position where they can continue as the dominant economic player in the south Pacific.

Rescinding internet privacy regulations will tend to drive Americans away from the Internet and reduce innovation in this space.

We're already starting to see targeted ethnic groups avoiding the US.   The people who would have come to the states are the most amibitious, least complacent people in their native countries.    Even Canadian schools are cancelling US field trips.

Repealing the ACA would have reduced health care to almost 10% of the American population.

Making friends with Vladimir Putin will give Russia more influence and power in former soviet bloc countries.

Anyone have more examples?   

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/29/opinion/trump-is-a-chinese-agent.html?_r=0

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2859 on: March 29, 2017, 03:51:49 PM »


Making friends with Vladimir Putin will give Russia more influence and power in former soviet bloc countries.


He's not even making Russia great again!

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-whole-donald-trump-thing-isnt-working-out-for-russ-1793688035
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

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DavidAnnArbor

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2860 on: March 31, 2017, 08:39:04 AM »
fewer American jobs moved out of the country are bad things?

"So much winning you'll get sick of winning. Seriously, trade policy by Tweet was never going to work."   Krugman

American Jobs Are Headed to Mexico Once Again  March 31st article:
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-31/jobs-departing-u-s-for-mexico-again-as-trump-s-threats-ignored

jim555

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2861 on: April 03, 2017, 06:54:19 PM »
People are saying Trump has some cognitive problems happening now.  He went in to sign some EOs and he forgot to sign them, said a few words, and walked out of the room.  Then they took the EOs to the other room.  They all looked like WTF.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2862 on: April 04, 2017, 05:58:58 AM »
Yeah it's a train wreck that we're all witnessing.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2863 on: April 04, 2017, 06:04:17 AM »
People are saying Trump has some cognitive problems happening now.  He went in to sign some EOs and he forgot to sign them, said a few words, and walked out of the room.  Then they took the EOs to the other room.  They all looked like WTF.

Did he forget? I thought a reporter asked a question about Flynn and he got mad?
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

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Retire-Canada

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2864 on: April 04, 2017, 07:00:36 AM »
Did he forget? I thought a reporter asked a question about Flynn and he got mad?

This ^^. Although I think the 24/7 scrutiny of the presidency is wearing him down.

jim555

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2865 on: April 04, 2017, 07:54:12 AM »
Did he forget? I thought a reporter asked a question about Flynn and he got mad?

This ^^. Although I think the 24/7 scrutiny of the presidency is wearing him down.
The whole point of the meeting is to sign the EO.  So how does he (get flustered/forget) why he is even there?  Something is not right with him.

Inaya

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2866 on: April 04, 2017, 07:57:11 AM »
He's a child. He didn't forget--he threw a tantrum. So he took his ball and went home.

What bothers me is now he has a precedent of signing them in secret. So he will probably do so at every offered opportunity, since he's allergic to transparency.
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Retire-Canada

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2867 on: April 04, 2017, 08:10:24 AM »
The whole point of the meeting is to sign the EO.  So how does he (get flustered/forget) why he is even there?  Something is not right with him.

I don't think there is much "right" with Trump, but getting flustered by the press isn't a new thing for politicians.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2868 on: April 04, 2017, 02:34:08 PM »
ISIS thinks the US is being run by an idiot.

Who could possibly have predicted this?

/sarcasm

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-islamic-state-idUSKBN17625H?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social

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cerat0n1a

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2869 on: April 05, 2017, 04:16:51 AM »
I think the 24/7 scrutiny of the presidency is wearing him down.

I'd say that in Britain, we've had two recent prime ministers for whom the pressure/scrutiny has led to mental health issues while in office. I don't think anyone would say that happened to Obama or Bush, but it does take a special kind of person I imagine. I'd kind of expected that Trump, being largely oblivious to the consequences of his decisions, was not going to be plagued by self-doubts or be affected by pressure.

KBecks

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2870 on: April 05, 2017, 05:50:32 AM »
ISIS thinks the US is being run by an idiot.

Who could possibly have predicted this?

/sarcasm

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-islamic-state-idUSKBN17625H?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social

Since when do we give a shit about what ISIS thinks of us?   They want us all under Sharia law or dead.    Oooh, ISIS doesn't respect us!!  No fucking kidding. 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 05:52:04 AM by KBecks »

former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2871 on: April 05, 2017, 06:34:35 AM »
I think the 24/7 scrutiny of the presidency is wearing him down.

I'd say that in Britain, we've had two recent prime ministers for whom the pressure/scrutiny has led to mental health issues while in office. I don't think anyone would say that happened to Obama or Bush, but it does take a special kind of person I imagine. I'd kind of expected that Trump, being largely oblivious to the consequences of his decisions, was not going to be plagued by self-doubts or be affected by pressure.
I just googled "Trump Alzheimer's" and got 10,400,000 results.
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Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2872 on: April 05, 2017, 06:58:07 AM »
ISIS thinks the US is being run by an idiot.

Who could possibly have predicted this?

/sarcasm

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-islamic-state-idUSKBN17625H?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social

Since when do we give a shit about what ISIS thinks of us?   They want us all under Sharia law or dead.    Oooh, ISIS doesn't respect us!!  No fucking kidding.

Um, you do realize that the weakening of the US is an excellent recruitment tool, right?
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

Retire-Canada

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2873 on: April 05, 2017, 07:03:13 AM »
Um, you do realize that the weakening of the US is an excellent recruitment tool, right?

And the muslim travel ban.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2874 on: April 05, 2017, 08:22:08 AM »
Um, you do realize that the weakening of the US is an excellent recruitment tool, right?

And the muslim travel ban.

And the botched raid in Yemen.
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

hoping2retire35

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2875 on: April 05, 2017, 08:57:37 AM »
So, did Susan Rice do spy on the on the Trump campaign? Trying to maintain my low information diet here, but I am guessing this has something to do with the Michael Flynn thing.

Gin1984

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2876 on: April 05, 2017, 09:15:49 AM »
So, did Susan Rice do spy on the on the Trump campaign? Trying to maintain my low information diet here, but I am guessing this has something to do with the Michael Flynn thing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/us/politics/susan-rice-obama-trump-leak.html?_r=0
No it has to do with Trump's lie that he was wiretapped by Obama.

acroy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2877 on: April 05, 2017, 09:25:28 AM »
New spin on anime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyxSZhushjU&feature=youtu.be
Great time to be alive.

More seriously:
The reclusive Matt Drudge makes an interesting point Trump 'Saved the Media'
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/03/31/matt_drudge_on_savage_hillary_looks_like_shes_running_again_trump_should_disappear_for_a_while.html

Mainstream Media is actually less trusted/approved than the man they love to hate.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Trump literally threw them a lifeline by turning American politics into the worlds biggest reality TV show.

While the 'Russian Hacker' fiasco fizzles...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/31/the-russia-hacking-fiasco-no-evidence-required/

...it's morphing into Spygate
http://nypost.com/2017/04/05/susan-rices-track-record-damages-her-credibility/

Great times.
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DoubleDown

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2878 on: April 05, 2017, 09:57:13 AM »
So, did Susan Rice do spy on the on the Trump campaign? Trying to maintain my low information diet here, but I am guessing this has something to do with the Michael Flynn thing.

Susan Rice emphatically says she did not, and I'd add that there is also no evidence provided that she did. I'd say there are two possibilities here, and the one that has the most probability of being true is pretty obvious, like 99.99 to 0.001:

1. Susan Rice purposely and wittingly revealed names of Trump allies who were involved with Russians
2. Trump enablers (i.e., Drudge and Breitbart) threw out another shiny object saying, "Look over there!!" to deflect attention away from the constant drip-drip of more evidence of Trump-Russia collusion. They've never done that before... (sarcasm)
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radram

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2879 on: April 05, 2017, 09:58:20 AM »
How about his actions strengthen the opinions of those world wide that think we are incompetent fools.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bannon-removed-from-national-security-council-role-in-shakeup/ar-BBzrrR7

"Reorganize" after less than 60 days?

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2880 on: April 05, 2017, 10:02:51 AM »
How about his actions strengthen the opinions of those world wide that think we are incompetent fools.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bannon-removed-from-national-security-council-role-in-shakeup/ar-BBzrrR7

"Reorganize" after less than 60 days?

Yup.

But maybe his supporters actually believe that there's no reason to care that the rest of the world thinks our president and his administration is weak, in totally disarray, and generally incompetent?
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2881 on: April 05, 2017, 06:11:36 PM »
ISIS thinks the US is being run by an idiot.

Donald Trump . . . making ISIS seem reasonable.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2882 on: April 05, 2017, 07:30:53 PM »
How about his actions strengthen the opinions of those world wide that think we are incompetent fools.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bannon-removed-from-national-security-council-role-in-shakeup/ar-BBzrrR7

"Reorganize" after less than 60 days?

Yup.

But maybe his supporters actually believe that there's no reason to care that the rest of the world thinks our president and his administration is weak, in totally disarray, and generally incompetent?
I'm guessing McMaster has Trump's ear now on these matters and had Bannon bumped? It's a good outcome anyway.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2883 on: April 06, 2017, 06:14:54 AM »
Well, the first major foreign crises of Trump's presidency are beginning. And we are stuck with a president that has no idea what he's doing. Strap in, folks.

A good piece by Charles Blow:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/opinion/creeping-toward-crisis.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=0
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

BeginnerStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2884 on: April 06, 2017, 06:49:29 AM »
Well, the first major foreign crises of Trump's presidency are beginning. And we are stuck with a president that has no idea what he's doing. Strap in, folks.

A good piece by Charles Blow:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/opinion/creeping-toward-crisis.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Yep! "I don't show my hand" = "I don't have a fucking clue"

dividendman

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2885 on: April 06, 2017, 11:31:10 AM »
Well, I had a glimmer of hope that Trump would be less hawkish than the rest of the republican field (except Paul) and was a dove compared to Clinton... but it looks like bombs away (at least) in Syria soon. yay.

The only thing that is working in favor of not going to war with Syria is that Putin owns Trump and probably won't let him do it.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2886 on: April 06, 2017, 06:38:35 PM »
Well, the first major foreign crises of Trump's presidency are beginning. And we are stuck with a president that has no idea what he's doing. Strap in, folks.

A good piece by Charles Blow:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/opinion/creeping-toward-crisis.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=0
Perhaps a little overwritten (Trump's words and actions don't need some of Blow's editorial accoutrements to land a punch) but the part about Trump's response to the Hezbollah question is hysterical: You will see. They will have a message. You will see what the message will be, O.K..

Also of interest are these thoughts on China. Similar to Syria, the foreign policy of the US has become a drifting set of vague notions that are based on mostly misunderstood or wholly fabricated "facts," the communication of which is furthered muddled through twitter tirades in the wee hours.

Abe

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2887 on: April 06, 2017, 07:15:24 PM »
Our foreign policy has become "we don't give a damn. Oh wait...they like us? Ok, that's great. Still don't care but I'll give them a call some time!"

sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2888 on: April 06, 2017, 11:07:53 PM »
I just wanted to be the first to go on record suggesting that today's impact of a Trump Presidency is unilateral military action against a UN member state, without the approval of the UN security council, leading to world war 3.  Hooray!

Well, it could have been worse.  He could have sent in nukes, like he suggested during the campaign he would. 

former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2889 on: April 07, 2017, 01:05:05 AM »
I just wanted to be the first to go on record suggesting that today's impact of a Trump Presidency is unilateral military action against a UN member state, without the approval of the UN security council, leading to world war 3.  Hooray!

Well, it could have been worse.  He could have sent in nukes, like he suggested during the campaign he would.
I'm looking for bright spots.  At least Putin isn't getting what he paid for.
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Malaysia41

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2890 on: April 07, 2017, 02:51:26 AM »
This. The people in power now are true believers of the bullshit machine that hurled them into power.

http://fusion.net/the-long-lucrative-right-wing-grift-is-blowing-up-in-t-1793944216

The targeted suckers described in this article are my parents and most of their friends. I have witnessed this all first hand.
Last one to panic wins!

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I'm an enemy of POTUS, VPOTUS, and the privately funded political system that inflicted them upon us.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2891 on: April 07, 2017, 04:49:27 AM »
I just wanted to be the first to go on record suggesting that today's impact of a Trump Presidency is unilateral military action against a UN member state, without the approval of the UN security council, leading to world war 3.  Hooray!

Well, it could have been worse.  He could have sent in nukes, like he suggested during the campaign he would.

Unfortunately Obama set the precedent that the President can go to war unilaterally. He should have been impeached for Libya and Trump should be for this, but Congress doesn't have the guts.

hoping2retire35

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2892 on: April 07, 2017, 05:36:42 AM »
Lying, son of a bitch.

KBecks

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2893 on: April 07, 2017, 06:02:55 AM »

There is a lot of truth in this.  But it ignores the elephant in the room: the concerted efforts by Russia to influence the election through the leaking of emails and the torrent of disinformation ("fake news") from Russian bots on Facebook and Twitter which drowned out the normal social media content and replaced it with Hilary hatespeech targeted at Republicans and Bernie supporters.

Hilary was not a "terrible" candidate.  She had her flaws, as do all candidates, but she was a better candidate than Trump.  The fact that even someone sympathetic can describe her as terrible without a thought just indicates how all-pervasive the Russian disinformation campaign became.

I mean, "lock her up"?  And "we couldn't possibly have a Presidential candidate who is under FBI investigation"?  Tell me now, who was really the terrible candidate?

I would have mentioned Russia too, but my post was already getting very long. Also I'm kind of waiting to see what comes from the investigations. I agree - it's clear that Russian trolls (Internet Research Agency types) were all over reddit, for example, pushing anti-HRC stuff and pro Trump BS. My sense is that Russian involvement went way beyond just chatting with /paying off Manafort and others. Hopefully the investigations to come will clarify just what went down in those deals. The Rosnef sale looks bad, along with much else. Adam Schiff summed it up well in his testimony.

I'm saying she was strategically a "terrible" candidate - not because I bought into the propaganda against her, but because I personally knew so many who had. Sure, I didn't like some of her work as Sec of State, but I think she would have been a fine president. Obviously she was a better candidate than Trump. Hell, she was a better candidate than all of the ~17 GOP candidates. I would have voted for her over all of them.

When I wrote "terrible" I meant she was "possibly unelectable."  And you don't run a possibly-unelectable candidate against a monster like Trump. I mean, early on, they actually tried to push for Trump as their pied piper candidate. Gah.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that last paragraph.
The last paragraph was things said about Hillary during the campaign which are considerably more true of Trump in office than they ever were of Hillary as a candidate.

Hillary was not "possibly unelectable" until the Russians got after her with their insidious propaganda.  They are a lot smarter about their propaganda than they used to be - a lot of it is subtle and clever as well as some of it being obvious and crude.

I think Hillary's problem was that she tried to power through the campaign on her own terms without realising (how could she) just how significant the Russian propaganda campaign against her would be.  That meant that she took the high moral ground against Trump, rather than getting down in the muck with him.  I'm not sure whether any other approach would have done better, and until Comey fell for the Russian dirty tricks over the Weiner emails two weeks before election date it was working well enough.

Edited to add: it didn't help the Hillary was a woman and that apparently sexism is even more deeply ingrained in the USA than in most developed societies.

This concept that Russia is the reason Hillary is hated is total bullshit.  Hillary fucked up her campaign in the rust belt and took a lot of votes for granted, while Trump hustled in those states to get more votes and win.   It's very convenient for Hillary to say it was Russia's fault rather than look at her own failures.  All of this is posturing so she can be viable for some other government position or to run again  Play the victim Hillary.  It's so weak.

jrhampt

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2894 on: April 07, 2017, 06:07:33 AM »
^^^. She didn't come up with this on her own...this is what our own intelligence agencies say.  Do you think they are making up shit too?

KBecks

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2895 on: April 07, 2017, 06:12:19 AM »
Post some links to the evidence, then.  The whole thing is a clown show.  Hillary is getting two more minutes of "fame" here and there off of it and she's using it to try to re-build her political capital.   She's going to milk "Russian hacking" for as long as she can to keep her face in front of the cameras, whether there is any real evidence or not.   

Also, I was on Facebook before the election and nearly everything I saw was pro-liberal.  I didn't experience anything that smelled like fake news getting pumped into my feed to manipulate me -- *as if* I base my votes on fucking Facebook.

And you cannot deny her weak campaigning in the Rust belt.  That's all on her.



« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 06:14:01 AM by KBecks »

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2896 on: April 07, 2017, 06:23:14 AM »
I just wanted to be the first to go on record suggesting that today's impact of a Trump Presidency is unilateral military action against a UN member state, without the approval of the UN security council, leading to world war 3.  Hooray!

Well, it could have been worse.  He could have sent in nukes, like he suggested during the campaign he would.

Unfortunately Obama set the precedent that the President can go to war unilaterally. He should have been impeached for Libya and Trump should be for this, but Congress doesn't have the guts.

That precedent existed at least as far back as Bush I.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

hoping2retire35

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2897 on: April 07, 2017, 06:36:36 AM »
^^^. She didn't come up with this on her own...this is what our own intelligence agencies say.  Do you think they are making up shit too?
Yes. Next they will say that Syria's Assad is using nerve gas on his own people so our military has an excuse to go to war there.

 Wait...what?

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2898 on: April 07, 2017, 06:53:50 AM »
Hillary Clinton lost, and she will never be President. Can we shut up about her now?

(She would have attacked Syria illegally, too.)

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2899 on: April 07, 2017, 08:08:23 AM »
Realistic impacts of Trump's presidency? Well as of this morning, 59 tomahawk missiles...

I wonder what Xi thought of this attack while being hosted in FL.