Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 205521 times)

dividendman

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2450 on: February 28, 2017, 03:24:13 PM »
Damn you Sol, how did you get that comment in before mine.

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2451 on: February 28, 2017, 03:26:14 PM »
And today, on February 27, 2017, the President of the United States of America, Donald J Trump said:
"Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."
I choked on my bourbon when I read this...

Who knew being president would be so complicated...

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2452 on: February 28, 2017, 03:28:12 PM »
And today, on February 27, 2017, the President of the United States of America, Donald J Trump said:
"Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."
I choked on my bourbon when I read this...

Who knew being president would be so complicated...
...or be this much work?
"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2453 on: February 28, 2017, 03:34:09 PM »
I wish Trump would pull a Sarah Palin and just suddenly quit. By the way - Palin got quiet... Maybe the news doesn't have enough room for two politicians to spout out goofy shit about random things.

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2454 on: February 28, 2017, 03:36:12 PM »
I've never heard the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings described as being unlawful before.   Anyone have a reference?

Midwest

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2455 on: February 28, 2017, 03:39:19 PM »
I've never heard the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings described as being unlawful before.   Anyone have a reference?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki



nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2456 on: February 28, 2017, 03:44:30 PM »
I've never heard the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings described as being unlawful before.   Anyone have a reference?
Retroactively it would violate the fourth Geneva convention ratified in 1949.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention

Before 1949 there was precious-little to protect civilians during declared wars (though there were protections for wounding, sick and shipwrecked soldiers & sailors, as well as protection for aid groups and POWs).  So if we blew up any POWs, aid groups or wounded, and knew that we were doing so when we dropped the bomb it could qualify.  Then again I'm just armchairing here.
"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

ncornilsen

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2457 on: February 28, 2017, 04:14:44 PM »
I've never heard the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings described as being unlawful before.   Anyone have a reference?
Retroactively it would violate the fourth Geneva convention ratified in 1949.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention

Before 1949 there was precious-little to protect civilians during declared wars (though there were protections for wounding, sick and shipwrecked soldiers & sailors, as well as protection for aid groups and POWs).  So if we blew up any POWs, aid groups or wounded, and knew that we were doing so when we dropped the bomb it could qualify.  Then again I'm just armchairing here.

It was certainly unprecedented.

I do believe, however, the US using one of those bombs, when nobody else could retaliate with a similar weapon, is the only reason humanity still exists. Had an enemy of the US had one at that time, or any significant stockpile of them been created before one was used, the retaliatory attacks may have wiped out our planet before we had a chance to really see the consequences.

Poundwise

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2458 on: March 01, 2017, 05:21:02 AM »
Husband came home very depressed yesterday. His double grant renewal from the NIH, which got a very good score that would have been a shoo-in for funding last year, has been downgraded to "probably not."  He had to give up the chance for a single renewal last year in order to apply for the double. Now he has two weeks to finish another single renewal application under a harsher funding climate. If he doesn't get it, he will have to write grants all year instead of doing research, and likely lay off some lab members in December.

Thanks, Trump and the GOP!

MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2459 on: March 01, 2017, 05:39:03 AM »
I think you have a stronger argument if you want to consider whether excessive collateral damage is breading the next wave of terrorism. But it is still collateral damage as long as we are not intentionally seeking to kill civilians and actively trying to avoid doing so.

I understand your argument, but the recent raid is a good example of what our leaders determine a "success." A Navy Seal killed, 3 wounded and a number of women and children killed. The administration doesn't count success/failure in lives lost but in information gained. To me that kind of rhetoric sets a precedent that killing innocent civilians is not only acceptable but is just the nature of successful missions. It's a complete breakdown in human decency.

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2460 on: March 01, 2017, 06:18:50 AM »
Last night confirmed for me that talk is cheap. Trump is the same messed up person he was during the campaign but he gave a good speech written by someone else utilizing the right words. His words are still worth less than two cents each. All last night proved was that he can agree to read a teleprompter and stay on message.

I know other presidents read their speeches and these speeches were prepared by a professional speech writer. At least there was a chance they believe in their own message.

iris lily

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2461 on: March 01, 2017, 06:55:20 AM »
I guess paid FMLA is a realistic impact of the Trump Presidency.

Cant see how that is friendly to business. Take away the ACA mandate, but slap them with payment ng for FMLA?
What fun this Democrat is having in The White House.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 07:43:33 AM by iris lily »

jrhampt

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2462 on: March 01, 2017, 07:01:17 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-groan-as-trump-promotes-new-immigration-crime-office/ar-AAnEES7?li=BBnb7Kz

I don't like the sound of this.  Perhaps if we also focused on crimes committed against immigrants , like Srinivas in Kansas...

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2463 on: March 01, 2017, 07:15:09 AM »
I guess paid FMLA is arwalistic impact of the Trump Presidency.

Cant see how that is friendly to business. Take away the ACA mandate, but slap them with payment ng for FMLA?
What fun this Democrat is having in The White House.

Wait, what? Source?
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

SomedayStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2464 on: March 01, 2017, 07:20:40 AM »
Maybe she refers to this comment from the speech:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/03/01/2017-womens-history-month/98247518/
In Trump's first address to a joint session of Congress Tuesday night, the president said: "My administration wants to work with members in both parties to make childcare accessible and affordable, to help ensure new parents have paid family leave, to invest in women's health."


I find Iris Lily's comments (here and on numerous other posts) regarding employees taking leave and her scorn for paid leave extremely interesting.  It's a viewpoint that I don't understand but I appreciate getting a glimpse into a different perspective.

GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2465 on: March 01, 2017, 07:27:34 AM »
But seriously, the US military, the us navy particularly, has brought unprecedented levels of world peace to the planet over the past 7 decades.

I agree with you on the US navy.  Generally speaking, they've been a powerful force for good in the world over the past seventy years.  Trade tends to benefit peace, as Sol pointed out.

It's very hard to agree with you regarding the US Air Force and the US Army.  The US Air Force is regularly engaged in acts of terror (the only real difference between be-headings and drone strikes is that one side openly televises their cruelty, the other side hides it out of shame - they both kill a lot of innocent people, they both operate outside of any real legal system).  The US Army openly operates kidnapping and torture facilities that are completely outside of the rule of law and in contravention of international law.

Neither of these actions are responsible for world peace (and a fair amount of evidence points to them being a cause of destabilization and radicalization in the world).

There is another difference between our drone strikes and terrorist attacks and that is simple intent. The US military and our policy in general has very different mind set and intent behind it than terrorist attacks. You may not agree with our use of force outside the bounds of or country to attempt stabilize or reshape foreign power balance but the innocents we kill as collateral are a far cry different than intentionally targeting innocent people for execution to send a message.

If you don't acknowledge that difference you are doing a great disservice to those who are trying to keep us safe and make the world safer in general even if it means we chose to take human lives to achieve that goal.

That's certainly what the people doing the illegal executions have been telling you.  While I'd like to believe that the people in the US Air Force aren't intentionally targeting innocent Muslims for death and to send a message, I would seriously challenge you to prove it.

This is a program without much transparency, theoretically overseen by congress but run by many of the same people who were exposed for lying to congress about torture programs they previously oversaw (http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/cia-drone-killings-get-scant-congressional-oversight/).  Much of the decision making surrounding these murders also resides in the hands of the president . . . and the current president of America has advocated murdering innocent people to send a message:

"The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families".

Trump is a special kind of idiot who does uncharacteristically support torture and acts of retribution against innocent people. This is not a quote I would attribute to any other recent President....

I did not attribute that quote to any other recent President.  Just the current commander in chief of your military.


The burden of proof goes both ways. Show me declassified reports where we intentionally are targeting innocent family members for execution to send a message. Show me instances were we intentionally go after entirely non-military targets to scare a countries people into submission.

The US Air Force is currently executing foreign civilians on a regular basis without trial and with secret evidence - we are at least agreed on this.  I will agree that I can't prove the intent of the US military.  I've never argued that I could, you did.

The only information available about these murders comes from the United States military, who are the perpetrators of these acts.  It is not possible for me (or you) to prove anything about intent because access to information is not available.  In light of that, it's not valid for you to claim that they have a different intent than any other terrorist organization . . . because you simply don't know.


How far does calling our military strikes terrorism go? We dropped nukes on two Japanese cities filled with innocent people. Are those terrorist attacks?

Yes.  The purpose of the nuclear bombings were not to damage military targets but to terrify the Japanese populace.  They were very successful terrorist attacks, but I don't see how you could argue they were anything but acts of terror.


If we are a state of perpetual conflict with countries who can't control terrorist activities then what level of retaliation is okay to not be considers terrorists ourselves?

Should we attempt to kill known terrorists with bombs or should we send in a band of middle American 19 year old boys trained as killers to hunt them down and bring them in alive to stand trial risking all their lives? What level of decorum is fitting for people who would behead civilians on live broadcast and send young men into a crowded location wearing suicide vests?

I think that the golden rule is a good way of approaching this question.

Let's say a person lived in the United States and planned and executed a terror attack with several friends on a large office building in North Korea because he didn't believe that the rule of Kim Jong Un.  There's little to no communication or sharing of military and security information between North Korea and the United States, so North Korea does several things:

- They bribe people in the US with a 100,000$ reward to report on any neighbour who might harbour ill-will towards North Korea.  Then special North Korean forces infiltrate the country and kidnap many of the reported people.  They are taken to a North Korean held military base and tortured / held indefinitely.

- North Korea uses information that they receive from unknown sources to bomb what they claim are terrorists living in US cities with drones.  Many civilians (and plenty of children) are killed, but North Korea assures the US that they are doing everything they can to minimize casualties.  Nearly everyone you know has lost someone to a drone strike . . . and you don't believe that any of them were terrorists.

Now, for you to answer:
1.  Do you think that this behaviour by North Korea is OK?
2.  Are you comfortable with unknown death from above based on decisions that you know nothing about, on information that may or may not be faulty, and with no oversight that you're aware of?
3.  Do you believe that North Korea is acting fairly with the abducted prisoners they're torturing and holding without trial?

Doing the right thing is often hard.  It's sometimes dangerous.  Is fear and laziness an acceptable excuse for doing the wrong thing?


if you can't or chose not distinguish, between a country using its military to go after individuals we feel are mortal threats to our people and extremists who's only goal is to maim and kill civilians to send a message then I think you are making a false equivalence between our actions and the actions of terrorists.

You are yet again claiming to know the intent of the US military without any basis for your belief other than propaganda.


I think you have a stronger argument if you want to consider whether excessive collateral damage is breading the next wave of terrorism. But it is still collateral damage as long as we are not intentionally seeking to kill civilians and actively trying to avoid doing so.

Again, you are claiming to know the intent of the US military without any basis for your belief other than propaganda.

iris lily

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2466 on: March 01, 2017, 07:47:08 AM »
I guess paid FMLA is arwalistic impact of the Trump Presidency.

Cant see how that is friendly to business. Take away the ACA mandate, but slap them with payment ng for FMLA?
What fun this Democrat is having in The White House.

Wait, what? Source?
Dude, are you unable to google? I dont ask that you watch the entire speech, I didnt.

But to help you out

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-paid-family-leave-child-care_us_58b630dee4b0a8a9b7871b12

iris lily

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2467 on: March 01, 2017, 07:49:33 AM »
Maybe she refers to this comment from the speech:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/03/01/2017-womens-history-month/98247518/
In Trump's first address to a joint session of Congress Tuesday night, the president said: "My administration wants to work with members in both parties to make childcare accessible and affordable, to help ensure new parents have paid family leave, to invest in women's health."


I find Iris Lily's comments (here and on numerous other postsd) regarding employees taking leave and her scorn for paid leave extremely interesting.  It's a viewpoint that I don't understand but I appreciate getting a glimpse into a different perspective.
You are nice. Paid leave is a benefit. It costs somethIng, thats all. Every increment of government mandated benefits costs something.  To pretend it does not is to live in a world I
 Dont understand.

that doesnt mean benefits should never  be afforded employees. But it is nice when a business itself decides to grant benefits that are above and beynd a government standard.  Let  the business decide the value of its employees.

One year I had 1/3 of my employees on the federally mandated FMLA. That was The Year From
Hell.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 07:57:06 AM by iris lily »

Blueskies123

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2468 on: March 01, 2017, 08:04:45 AM »
I guess we just have to disagree but I do not consider dropping the Atomic bomb a terrorist act.  It is an act of War.  If any of you recall we were losing the war for a while.  Using your definition of a terrorist act you could label almost anything in a time of war as terrorist act.  How would you describe what the Japanese did to Koreans and Chinese in the war?  How would you describe how our prisoners were treated or how the Philippines were treated?  How you describe what they did in Pearl Harbor?  we did not start any of these wars but we had to end them.

As for what our Air force is going today, I have one question.  If they do not defeat the Extremists what will be the likely outcome to Israel, to Europe, and then America?

golden1

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2469 on: March 01, 2017, 08:09:47 AM »
Quote
You are nice. Paid leave is a benefit. It costs somethIng, thats all. Every increment of government mandated benefits costs something.  To pretend it does not is to live in a world I
 Dont understand.

that doesnt mean benefits should never  be afforded employees. But it is nice when a business itself decides to grant benefits that are above and beynd a government standard.  Let  the business decide the value of its employees.

One year I had 1/3 of my employees on the federally mandated FMLA. That was The Year From
Hell.

I am sure it was the year from hell from some of those employees too, especially knowing that their employer would have rather had them working sick or neglecting family. 

JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2470 on: March 01, 2017, 08:15:41 AM »
Maybe she refers to this comment from the speech:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/03/01/2017-womens-history-month/98247518/
In Trump's first address to a joint session of Congress Tuesday night, the president said: "My administration wants to work with members in both parties to make childcare accessible and affordable, to help ensure new parents have paid family leave, to invest in women's health."


I find Iris Lily's comments (here and on numerous other postsd) regarding employees taking leave and her scorn for paid leave extremely interesting.  It's a viewpoint that I don't understand but I appreciate getting a glimpse into a different perspective.
You are nice. Paid leave is a benefit. It costs somethIng, thats all. Every increment of government mandated benefits costs something.  To pretend it does not is to live in a world I
 Dont understand.

that doesnt mean benefits should never  be afforded employees. But it is nice when a business itself decides to grant benefits that are above and beynd a government standard.  Let  the business decide the value of its employees.

One year I had 1/3 of my employees on the federally mandated FMLA. That was The Year From
Hell.

Government minimum standards exist because generally speaking, businesses will happily screw over employees for profit.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2471 on: March 01, 2017, 08:17:22 AM »
I guess we just have to disagree but I do not consider dropping the Atomic bomb a terrorist act.  It is an act of War.  If any of you recall we were losing the war for a while.  Using your definition of a terrorist act you could label almost anything in a time of war as terrorist act.  How would you describe what the Japanese did to Koreans and Chinese in the war?  How would you describe how our prisoners were treated or how the Philippines were treated?  How you describe what they did in Pearl Harbor?  we did not start any of these wars but we had to end them.

As for what our Air force is going today, I have one question.  If they do not defeat the Extremists what will be the likely outcome to Israel, to Europe, and then America?
Is executing civilians, bombing hopitals and assassinating u.s. citizens without trial really the only way defeat extremism?
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2472 on: March 01, 2017, 08:19:35 AM »
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/01/investing/dow-21000-trump-speech/index.html?category=investing

On the bright side, even though many things are worse, Trump's speech has lead to record stock market highs, which come close on the heels of other rcord stock market highs.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2473 on: March 01, 2017, 08:20:04 AM »

that doesnt mean benefits should never  be afforded employees. But it is nice when a business itself decides to grant benefits that are above and beynd a government standard.  Let  the business decide the value of its employees.

One year I had 1/3 of my employees on the federally mandated FMLA. That was The Year From
Hell.

Speaking as an employee, I greatly resent this sort of employer attitude, and it definitely affects output. Giving people family time makes your employees not hate you, so they're more productive when they come back. Clearly, most employers either don't realize this, or don't care.

Why do my reproductive decisions have to be based on winning the employer lottery? The whole thing is stupid. Businesses don't decide the value of their employees, they pay people as little as possible, and try to maximize profit. That's their whole function, and that's fine. As a society, we've (sort of) decided that we need to balance that with an individual's quality of life, so we tweak the rules a little bit.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

v8rx7guy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2474 on: March 01, 2017, 08:57:32 AM »
I thought his speech was well done last night... nice to see the markets react this morning.

dividendman

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2475 on: March 01, 2017, 09:02:41 AM »
I guess we just have to disagree but I do not consider dropping the Atomic bomb a terrorist act.  It is an act of War.  If any of you recall we were losing the war for a while.  Using your definition of a terrorist act you could label almost anything in a time of war as terrorist act.  How would you describe what the Japanese did to Koreans and Chinese in the war?  How would you describe how our prisoners were treated or how the Philippines were treated?  How you describe what they did in Pearl Harbor?  we did not start any of these wars but we had to end them.

As for what our Air force is going today, I have one question.  If they do not defeat the Extremists what will be the likely outcome to Israel, to Europe, and then America?

No, you can't label anything in wartime a terrorist act.

The Japanese raid on Pearl Harbor was definitely not a terrorist act. It was clear that they were going after the military target of the pacific fleet. They didn't go and bomb cities on Hawaii but the warships in the port.

The Japanese treatment of prisoners was also not a terrorist act. It was a war crime. Just like slaughtering Jews and others in Europe wasn't terrorism, it was a war crime. They weren't mass executing prisoners/Jews/others to terrify the general populace or government to achieve a political outcome.

The atomic bombs were meant, with a clear political purpose, to indiscriminately kill civilians to terrorize the Japanese government and people into capitulating. This is, as referenced above, the definition of terrorism.

deadlymonkey

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2476 on: March 01, 2017, 09:03:45 AM »
I thought his speech was well done last night... nice to see the markets react this morning.

Would be nicer if absolutely any of his actions actually backed up his words. 

iris lily

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2477 on: March 01, 2017, 09:04:19 AM »
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/01/investing/dow-21000-trump-speech/index.html?category=investing

On the bright side, even though many things are worse, Trump's speech has lead to record stock market highs, which come close on the heels of other rcord stock market highs.
This website doesnt like to celebrate that. Stop it!

Haha.

Feeling rich, I will be staying in a 5 star hotel next summer when we go to Prague. Well, it IS Prague, so it is cheap. We are not normally 5 star  hotel people.

v8rx7guy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2478 on: March 01, 2017, 09:22:55 AM »
I thought his speech was well done last night... nice to see the markets react this morning.

Would be nicer if absolutely any of his actions actually backed up his words.

What is the most important thing to you that he could do (action) that would make you feel as if he is backing up his words?

jim555

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2479 on: March 01, 2017, 09:24:59 AM »
Trump is a master BS artist.  A lot of talk but no details.  Let's see the details and ignore the talk.  Don't be conned!

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2480 on: March 01, 2017, 09:25:33 AM »
I thought his speech was well done last night... nice to see the markets react this morning.

Would be nicer if absolutely any of his actions actually backed up his words.

What is the most important thing to you that he could do (action) that would make you feel as if he is backing up his words?

He could provide any tiny little inkling of a sketch of his awesome healthcare plan that's going to cover more people for less money with better care.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

golden1

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2481 on: March 01, 2017, 09:29:12 AM »
The bar is so low that even a hint of competence is enough to make people feel relieved.  Don't worry, he will return to form soon enough. 

jim555

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2482 on: March 01, 2017, 09:33:10 AM »
Wow, he was able to read from a teleprompter for an hour with words he didn't write.  Not impressed.

GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2483 on: March 01, 2017, 09:36:54 AM »
I guess we just have to disagree but I do not consider dropping the Atomic bomb a terrorist act.  It is an act of War.  If any of you recall we were losing the war for a while.  Using your definition of a terrorist act you could label almost anything in a time of war as terrorist act.

Al-Qaeda declared a holy war against the United States before the 9/11 attacks.  Since they were at war with the US when the attacks took place, under your definition 9/11 was an act of war, not a terrorist attack.  They were targeting civilians as an act of war, a war that they were losing.


How would you describe what the Japanese did to Koreans and Chinese in the war?  How would you describe how our prisoners were treated or how the Philippines were treated?  How you describe what they did in Pearl Harbor? 

I'd describe the actions of the Japanese to military prisoners during the war as war crimes, and their actions towards civilians as terror.  The attack on Pearl Harbor was a military action targeting the military of a foreign nation.  Is your argument that two wrongs make a right?


we did not start any of these wars but we had to end them.

In World War II, it's true that the US did not start the war.  US policies have certainly been responsible for wars and conflict in Nicaragua, Guatemala, the Dominican Republic, Grenada, Panama, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan though.


As for what our Air force is going today, I have one question.  If they do not defeat the Extremists what will be the likely outcome to Israel, to Europe, and then America?

US drone strikes have been going on since 2004.  That's thirteen years, no defeat in sight yet.  When exactly do you anticipate that extremists will be defeated by these strikes?

People become radicalized and extreme in their viewpoints as a reaction to something.  That something might be poor living conditions in their country, it might be in reaction to an injustice perpetrated by another, it might be due to fear.  Bombing the hell out of another country will never address these problems.  You might be able to kill a few extremists, but I don't think you will ever be able to defeat extremism.

FXF

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2484 on: March 01, 2017, 09:55:50 AM »
Wow, he was able to read from a teleprompter for an hour with words he didn't write.  Not impressed.
I tend to agree this is how far the bar has lowered.

Trump gives one speech off a teleprompter ("I don't use teleprompters", Trump says in 2016 while criticizing Hillary Clinton for using them. "They make everything easy."), manages to stay on-message and stay composed, doesn't rant and rave like a lunatic, doesn't talk about his hotels, doesn't drool all over himself or insult the handicapped/POWs/minorities, and... suddenly... he's "presidential".



This is the future standard of the president of the United States. This is where it's at. This is all you need to do.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2485 on: March 01, 2017, 09:56:51 AM »
If everyone is going to give credit to Trump for the stock market rising, just remember to blame him when there is a downturn.  I personally don't think anything he has done has increased the overall fundamental value of the companies within the stock market.

So much this.

To be fair though, I generally view the market as divorced from reality on a short- to medium-term basis.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

v8rx7guy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2486 on: March 01, 2017, 09:58:53 AM »
I thought his speech was well done last night... nice to see the markets react this morning.

I watched the speech for 5 minutes and he was in his canned reading a teleprompter voice, similar to when he explained the tasks that each team need to do on an episode of the Apprentice, while the republicans overcheered him every 20 seconds, and the democrats looked disgusted, and the women democrats resembled a Miami Heat white-out playoff game.  I realized this was a complete waste of time and turned it off.

If everyone is going to give credit to Trump for the stock market rising, just remember to blame him when there is a downturn.  I personally don't think anything he has done has increased the overall fundamental value of the companies within the stock market.

No... you get to blame Obama for the downturn.  That's how it goes, right?  That's at least what I've heard we do.

iris lily

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2487 on: March 01, 2017, 10:02:43 AM »
If everyone is going to give credit to Trump for the stock market rising, just remember to blame him when there is a downturn.  I personally don't think anything he has done has increased the overall fundamental value of the companies within the stock market.

So much this.

To be fair though, I generally view the market as divorced from reality on a short- to medium-term basis.

Hmmm, show me where I said the Trump Bump on Wall Street is rational. You wont find my words saying that.

And sure, the market will go down. i dont even like it being this ridiculously high,other than for a little temporary giddiness. It feels like 2005 when every week when our friends met for coffee we talked about how much our houses were going up in value, or how much one of them pulled out  of their equity. Fun times that crashed.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 10:06:41 AM by iris lily »

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2488 on: March 01, 2017, 10:15:22 AM »
Hmmm, show me where I said the Trump Bump on Wall Street is rational. You wont find my words saying that.


What the hell?
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2489 on: March 01, 2017, 10:19:20 AM »
I totally struck out last night with my trump speech bingo card.  I started out with the "he's orange" free square in the middle and then felt good about my chances when I hit "lies about crime stats" and "mentions the bible" and "promises to take away health-care from millions of Americans", but I needed "insults Rosie O'Donnell", "mocks the disabled" or "pussy" to win it, and he never delivered.

Maybe next week?

Roland of Gilead

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2490 on: March 01, 2017, 11:01:41 AM »
I've never heard the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings described as being unlawful before.   Anyone have a reference?

I think pretty much everyone was being unlawful in WWII, not that that makes it right.

Japan was using Chinese girls to pleasure its troops, which has to violate some sort of convention

Germany was just gassing civilians by the millions

USA used atomic bombs on civilians

It was a fucked up time.

Working Mama

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2491 on: March 01, 2017, 11:04:24 AM »
"Who knew being president would be so complicated..."
This is hilarious! 



Just want to know how it will impact little people like me.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2492 on: March 01, 2017, 11:05:44 AM »
There were other acts of terrorism in WWII also.   I think we used flaming bats to set fire indiscriminately to Japanese homes.

Working Mama

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2493 on: March 01, 2017, 11:08:50 AM »
Ya, think Sheldon Adelson will re-consider his support for Trump?


former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2494 on: March 01, 2017, 12:42:23 PM »
I've never heard the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings described as being unlawful before.   Anyone have a reference?

I think pretty much everyone was being unlawful in WWII, not that that makes it right.

Japan was using Chinese girls to pleasure its troops, which has to violate some sort of convention

Germany was just gassing civilians by the millions

USA used atomic bombs on civilians

It was a fucked up time.
Can I ask what alternative strategy you had for ending the war with Japan?

Perhaps the Allies should have just let the USSR invade and occupy instead?
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2495 on: March 01, 2017, 12:52:56 PM »
If everyone is going to give credit to Trump for the stock market rising, just remember to blame him when there is a downturn.  I personally don't think anything he has done has increased the overall fundamental value of the companies within the stock market.

So much this.

To be fair though, I generally view the market as divorced from reality on a short- to medium-term basis.
Of course he hasn't improved fundamentals; doesn't mean that the market reaction isn't attributable to him.

My favorite part is that he can act crazy, get the market to rise, and when he finally acts normal for a moment, its even better for the markets. Will be fascinating to see how long this trend continues and what, if anything, will reverse it.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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jrhampt

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2496 on: March 01, 2017, 12:53:49 PM »
This is my reaction to the speech:

Last week, Srinivas Khuchibhotla was murdered by a man who told him to "get out of my country". 

Last night, Trump promoted his plan to create a new homeland security office focused on immigrants committing crimes.  He also wants DHS to publish a weekly list of immigrants who have committed crimes, despite statistics showing that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the rest of the population, and in fact are disproportionately responsible for starting many of our small businesses in this country.

Over the course of my life, I have known, worked with, lived with, and loved many people who also happen to be immigrants.  They deserve better than this from us.  May more of us be like Ian Grillot than like Adam Purinton and those who incite people like him to commit crimes against our immigrant neighbors, co-workers, family, and loved ones.

v8rx7guy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2497 on: March 01, 2017, 12:59:40 PM »
Last night, Trump promoted his plan to create a new homeland security office focused on immigrants committing crimes.  He also wants DHS to publish a weekly list of immigrants who have committed crimes, despite statistics showing that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the rest of the population, and in fact are disproportionately responsible for starting many of our small businesses in this country.

Where did he say that?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/28/politics/donald-trump-speech-transcript-full-text/

jrhampt

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2498 on: March 01, 2017, 01:08:38 PM »
Last night, Trump promoted his plan to create a new homeland security office focused on immigrants committing crimes.  He also wants DHS to publish a weekly list of immigrants who have committed crimes, despite statistics showing that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the rest of the population, and in fact are disproportionately responsible for starting many of our small businesses in this country.

Where did he say that?



http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/28/politics/donald-trump-speech-transcript-full-text/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/02/28/politics/donald-trump-voice-victim-reporting/index.html

jim555

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2499 on: March 01, 2017, 01:15:06 PM »
Are you tired of winning yet?