Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 180526 times)

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5313
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2150 on: February 16, 2017, 11:32:25 PM »
Let us not forget the more run of the mill greed and fiscal irresponsibility the Trump family is indulging in weekly at taxpayer expense (total coincidence that Trump's businesses are benefitting from the expense, of course):

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-family%E2%80%99s-elaborate-lifestyle-is-a-%E2%80%98logistical-nightmare%E2%80%99-%E2%80%94-at-taxpayer-expense/ar-AAn1H4A?li=BBnb7Kz
While I can see the greed, I don't see the fiscal irresponsibility. I mean, even if he quadruples the expense of protecting a president to 200 million over his 4 year term, that's not even a rounding error in terms of the U.S. budget.

Please.
Color me unimpressed with outrage over .0001 percent of the federal budget.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

Lagom

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1201
  • Age: 34
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2151 on: February 16, 2017, 11:51:43 PM »
Let us not forget the more run of the mill greed and fiscal irresponsibility the Trump family is indulging in weekly at taxpayer expense (total coincidence that Trump's businesses are benefitting from the expense, of course):

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-family%E2%80%99s-elaborate-lifestyle-is-a-%E2%80%98logistical-nightmare%E2%80%99-%E2%80%94-at-taxpayer-expense/ar-AAn1H4A?li=BBnb7Kz
While I can see the greed, I don't see the fiscal irresponsibility. I mean, even if he quadruples the expense of protecting a president to 200 million over his 4 year term, that's not even a rounding error in terms of the U.S. budget.

Please.
Color me unimpressed with outrage over .0001 percent of the federal budget.

Not comparable situations and you know it.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7021
  • Registered member
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2152 on: February 16, 2017, 11:55:49 PM »
That doesn't say it's ill advisable, and carrying a non-primary phone is likely just as suspicious (since it will look like a wiped phone)
Ok. I guess we have different understanding of whether looking suspicious at the boarder is ill-advisable or not. No problem.

If, worse case scenario, a back-up phone is just as suspicious, I guess I would prefer to let the CBP keep my back-up phone for several months while they dig through it, as opposed to my primary phone.

It's advisable to do whichever creates the least trouble.  If you bring your regular phone and they spend 12 hours reading all your emails vs. a "suspicious" wiped phone but they release you after 2 hours because there's nothing to search, which is advisable?  If they take your phone for a few weeks that changes the equation.  I don't think we have enough info to "advise" on the best course of action

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5313
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2153 on: February 16, 2017, 11:58:33 PM »
Not comparable situations and you know it.
Would you care to elaborate? I see money as fungible and don't hold one dollar as particularly more valuable than another.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

Lagom

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1201
  • Age: 34
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2154 on: February 17, 2017, 12:06:53 AM »
Not comparable situations and you know it.
Would you care to elaborate? I see money as fungible and don't hold one dollar as particularly more valuable than another.

I find it hard to believe you don't see my point, but fine. Let us consider that I work in a job in which I have a certain level of discretionary funds I can spend. For example, if I take someone out on a business dinner, while there is a cap on my allowed spending, it is comfortably high enough for me to pay for fancy meals with copious libations. Nevertheless, I never come close to that cap because I know it would be irresponsible of me to do so when the necessary ends can be achieved for far less. If I ignore this, I would be taking advantage of my position to fulfill personal whims, and if I did it often, I would be fired and justifiably so, most especially if it came to light that all of those dinners were being held at my family's restaurant.

This is a "rounding error" of a part of the budget that is 100% in control of the President and his family, and they are using it like a never-ending piggy bank (that conveniently returns some of the money back to their personal ban accounts) in a way that is grossly unprecedented. Do you mean to tell me you believe that is nevertheless no different than overspending on any other line in the federal budget? Or maybe it is all OK as long as a similar level of money is cut from somewhere else? PBS maybe?

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5313
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2155 on: February 17, 2017, 12:13:58 AM »
Not comparable situations and you know it.
Would you care to elaborate? I see money as fungible and don't hold one dollar as particularly more valuable than another.

I find it hard to believe you don't see my point, but fine. Let us consider that I work in a job in which I have a certain level of discretionary funds I can spend. For example, if I take someone out on a business dinner, while there is a cap on my allowed spending, it is comfortably high enough for me to pay for fancy meals with copious libations. Nevertheless, I never come close to that cap because I know it would be irresponsible of me to do so when the necessary ends can be achieved for far less. If I ignore this, I would be taking advantage of my position to fulfill personal whims, and if I did it often, I would be fired and justifiably so, most especially if it came to light that all of those dinners were being held at my family's restaurant.

This is a "rounding error" of a part of the budget that is 100% in control of the President and his family, and they are using it like a never-ending piggy bank (that conveniently returns some of the money back to their personal ban accounts) in a way that is grossly unprecedented. Do you mean to tell me you believe that is nevertheless no different than overspending on any other line in the federal budget? Or maybe it is all OK as long as a similar level of money is cut from somewhere else? PBS maybe?
Maybe we could save that much money on something really silly, like a military program that is already far over budget?

I guess I see it as such a small number that it's hardly newsworthy. To put it in perspective, the allowed spending cap on said fancy meals would be $200 out of the $1,000,000 budget. The person uses $100. Sure they could have  went to mcdonalds for all of their meetings and spent $50, but when working through the budget on the project I find it hard to believe they're going to fire anyone for spending such a small percentage more when it is so clearly within in the bounds of the cap.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

Lagom

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1201
  • Age: 34
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2156 on: February 17, 2017, 12:19:00 AM »
You seriously don't see how unethical this is? If I take one measly dollar from a $10,000 charity drive I was in charge of to buy myself a coffee, I have still committed a serious breach of ethics, regardless of how tiny my impact was on the bottom line.

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5313
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2157 on: February 17, 2017, 12:22:27 AM »
You seriously don't see how unethical this is? If I take one measly dollar from a $10,000 charity drive I was in charge of to buy myself a coffee, I have still committed a serious breach of ethics, regardless of how tiny my impact was on the bottom line.
The article was focused on the increase in cost to protect Trump and his family due to their 'jet-setting lifestyle'. Are you arguing something else? Because then we would not be discussing the same things.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

Lagom

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1201
  • Age: 34
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2158 on: February 17, 2017, 12:28:05 AM »
You seriously don't see how unethical this is? If I take one measly dollar from a $10,000 charity drive I was in charge of to buy myself a coffee, I have still committed a serious breach of ethics, regardless of how tiny my impact was on the bottom line.
The article was focused on the increase in cost to protect Trump and his family due to their 'jet-setting lifestyle'. Are you arguing something else? Because then we would not be discussing the same things.

So you are saying you are fine with our president and his family adopting a jet-setting lifestyle the likes of which the office has never seen just because it doesn't represent a meaningful % of a $4 trillion budget? We shouldn't hold our president to any standards whatsoever of being personally responsible for his discretionary use of taxpayer funds for entirely personal gains? It doesn't matter that in addition to getting tons of free vacations that come with mega expensive private security, he is simultaneously profiting from both? And I suppose you would be cool with him stealing from the church collection plate while he's at it? Jesus man.

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5313
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2159 on: February 17, 2017, 12:37:50 AM »
You seriously don't see how unethical this is? If I take one measly dollar from a $10,000 charity drive I was in charge of to buy myself a coffee, I have still committed a serious breach of ethics, regardless of how tiny my impact was on the bottom line.
The article was focused on the increase in cost to protect Trump and his family due to their 'jet-setting lifestyle'. Are you arguing something else? Because then we would not be discussing the same things.

So you are saying you are fine with our president and his family adopting a jet-setting lifestyle the likes of which the office has never seen just because it doesn't represent a meaningful % of a $4 trillion budget? We shouldn't hold our president to any standards whatsoever of being personally responsible for his discretionary use of taxpayer funds for entirely personal gains? It doesn't matter that in addition to getting tons of free vacations that come with mega expensive private security, he is simultaneously profiting from both? And I suppose you would be cool with him stealing from the church collection plate while he's at it? Jesus man.
Meh. This is several different arguments wrapped up in one. I'm fine with some of them, such as the 'jet setting lifestyle.' This has been his lifestyle literally his entire life. I don't expect him to change significantly because he is the president - that I think would be unfair. I didn't expect Bush to not spend time in Texas or Obama to not go golfing in Hawaii, even though it would have not doubt been cheaper if they had stayed in Washington watching TV on the weekends.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

EscapeVelocity2020

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1339
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2160 on: February 17, 2017, 01:40:48 AM »
You seriously don't see how unethical this is? If I take one measly dollar from a $10,000 charity drive I was in charge of to buy myself a coffee, I have still committed a serious breach of ethics, regardless of how tiny my impact was on the bottom line.
The article was focused on the increase in cost to protect Trump and his family due to their 'jet-setting lifestyle'. Are you arguing something else? Because then we would not be discussing the same things.

So you are saying you are fine with our president and his family adopting a jet-setting lifestyle the likes of which the office has never seen just because it doesn't represent a meaningful % of a $4 trillion budget? We shouldn't hold our president to any standards whatsoever of being personally responsible for his discretionary use of taxpayer funds for entirely personal gains? It doesn't matter that in addition to getting tons of free vacations that come with mega expensive private security, he is simultaneously profiting from both? And I suppose you would be cool with him stealing from the church collection plate while he's at it? Jesus man.
Meh. This is several different arguments wrapped up in one. I'm fine with some of them, such as the 'jet setting lifestyle.' This has been his lifestyle literally his entire life. I don't expect him to change significantly because he is the president - that I think would be unfair. I didn't expect Bush to not spend time in Texas or Obama to not go golfing in Hawaii, even though it would have not doubt been cheaper if they had stayed in Washington watching TV on the weekends.

Wow Mouse, you are getting to be just about as good at this as POTUS :)
Transitioning to FIRE'd albeit somewhat cautiously...

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5313
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2161 on: February 17, 2017, 01:46:27 AM »
You seriously don't see how unethical this is? If I take one measly dollar from a $10,000 charity drive I was in charge of to buy myself a coffee, I have still committed a serious breach of ethics, regardless of how tiny my impact was on the bottom line.
The article was focused on the increase in cost to protect Trump and his family due to their 'jet-setting lifestyle'. Are you arguing something else? Because then we would not be discussing the same things.

So you are saying you are fine with our president and his family adopting a jet-setting lifestyle the likes of which the office has never seen just because it doesn't represent a meaningful % of a $4 trillion budget? We shouldn't hold our president to any standards whatsoever of being personally responsible for his discretionary use of taxpayer funds for entirely personal gains? It doesn't matter that in addition to getting tons of free vacations that come with mega expensive private security, he is simultaneously profiting from both? And I suppose you would be cool with him stealing from the church collection plate while he's at it? Jesus man.
Meh. This is several different arguments wrapped up in one. I'm fine with some of them, such as the 'jet setting lifestyle.' This has been his lifestyle literally his entire life. I don't expect him to change significantly because he is the president - that I think would be unfair. I didn't expect Bush to not spend time in Texas or Obama to not go golfing in Hawaii, even though it would have not doubt been cheaper if they had stayed in Washington watching TV on the weekends.

Wow Mouse, you are getting to be just about as good at this as POTUS :)
Well if one wishes to discuss greed and graft and stealing from the government, that is fine, but this was not how the question was phrased, nor the main point of the article covered. I don't find paying for protection of the POTUS to be a great burden upon the country.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

EscapeVelocity2020

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1339
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2162 on: February 17, 2017, 01:58:15 AM »
Just my own personal comment on this (extravagant expenditure of a President).  For a guy that 'represents the middle class', Trump sure seems to play lots of golf on his own properties and enjoy luxuries most middle class will never, ever know.  As a Mustachian, we all know that when you're exposed to a spigot of wealth, there is either a choice to live a mindful life and control your own destiny, or shower oneself in wealth and deal with the obligations tied to the income.  I get the impression Trump continues to want it all, more income and not having to work for it.  Only now, he also can re-write the rules.
Transitioning to FIRE'd albeit somewhat cautiously...

EscapeVelocity2020

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1339
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2163 on: February 17, 2017, 02:03:22 AM »
And I'm also not afraid to add that I'm not happy about my taxes (money taken out of my paycheck) going toward 'protecting' Tiffany Trump and Eric Trump 'gallivanting freely as socialities', as opposed to paying for my own son and daughter's needs.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 02:06:02 AM by EscapeVelocity2020 »
Transitioning to FIRE'd albeit somewhat cautiously...

accolay

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2164 on: February 17, 2017, 02:15:06 AM »

It makes me think a dual boot phone could be useful here. Just boot into "clean" mode and give them that password.

This has been covered. It is considered ill advisable, as when you boot up your sanitized device the agents will likely view this as suspicious.

I think I missed it -- covered where?  I'm leaving the country soon and am considering wiping my phone before re-entering (I don't have anything incriminating, but my phone has access to decades of emails that they can go through)

 Nathan Freed Wessler, a staff attorney with the ACLU:
Quote
Wessler's advice is similar: "The best advice may be to be really careful on how many devices and what kind of data you're carrying with you," he says. "In terms of devices, government can't search what you don't have."

People who are concerned should leave their primary phone or laptop at home and travel with another device, he says.

Or, you could back up your data to a secure server, wipe it from your phone and then restore the data after you pass through customs, Wessler says. But this also could raise suspicions at the border.

That doesn't say it's ill advisable, and carrying a non-primary phone is likely just as suspicious (since it will look like a wiped phone)

Ditch the "smart" phone for a dumb one. Problem solved.

EscapeVelocity2020

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1339
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2165 on: February 17, 2017, 02:22:59 AM »
Sheesh, this thread is getting so 'Trumped' by distractionary comments with all the nesting and whatnot.  It's no wonder modern democracy is sliding down to being barely on par with or less effective than socialism.

Sincerely, democracy means that my comments would be heard just as loudly as yours.  But socialism means that you include a wall of nested text that probably means most people won't see what I posted earlier.
Transitioning to FIRE'd albeit somewhat cautiously...

EscapeVelocity2020

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1339
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2166 on: February 17, 2017, 02:26:26 AM »
Not picking on you Accolay, but you could've been more efficient in your reply, by targeting or paraphrasing what you were replying to.
Transitioning to FIRE'd albeit somewhat cautiously...

accolay

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2167 on: February 17, 2017, 02:48:54 AM »
Not picking on you Accolay, but you could've been more efficient in your reply, by targeting or paraphrasing what you were replying to.

No offense taken. However, I'm not bothered with the inefficiency of my reply. Thought the sentiment was pretty easy to figure out though.

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 570
  • Location: Southern California
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2168 on: February 17, 2017, 03:06:51 AM »
Doesn't bother me much, but it is expected "netiquite" to not "double post" or multi-post in a row.

The annoyance of scrolling through multiple nested quotes saying the same thing over and over and over again has me erasing all but the actual post I want to quote when I reply to a quote.

Just chiming in, because I'm sure others feel the same way and simply stop reading when scrolling through redundancy becomes a hassle.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 03:09:07 AM by Johnez »

Malaysia41

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2822
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Half Way Around The World
    • My mmm journal
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2169 on: February 17, 2017, 06:52:36 AM »
From the press conference:

Quote
Obamacare is a disaster, folks. It it's disaster. I know you can say, oh, Obamacare.I mean, they fill up our alleys with people that you wonder how they get there, but they are not the Republican people that our representatives are representing.

The fuck does that mean???

I'm thinking it's something along the lines of  this: "only lazy liberal indigents are using the ACA, and when done with their freebie medical care, the low-lifes head back out to the alley - where they live. Upstanding, self-reliant, self-righteous registered republicans who might use ACA - I'm not complaining about you."

Why am I even attempting to translate that?  IDK - because it and so many other statements are baffling beyond belief.

Jeez - on almost everything - ACA, DACA, Immigrants etc.  - all he sees is good guys and bad guys. He's such a fucking simpleton. This constant parsing of people into good/ bad buckets is exhausting.

Quote
"I do get good ratings you have to admit this."

He's POTUS. Has he no shame? ...  and these are only tiny snippets from that train-wreck of a press conference. There's so much more.

Sorry this is a rant - but we are living the impacts of the Trump Presidency. This is reality now.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 07:06:08 AM by Malaysia41 »
Last one to panic wins!

My Rohingya Refugee Charity (now Tax Exempt!)

I'm an enemy of POTUS, VPOTUS, and the privately funded political system that inflicted them upon us.

former player

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2223
  • Location: Avalon
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2170 on: February 17, 2017, 07:10:55 AM »
Elected representatives are there to represent everyone in their constituency.  Not just the people who voted for them.  Has anyone ever tried to tell Trump that?  That he is doing his job for everyone in the US, not just the ones who voted for him?

Gah.
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

NoStacheOhio

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1513
  • Location: Cleveland
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2171 on: February 17, 2017, 07:14:25 AM »
Elected representatives are there to represent everyone in their constituency.  Not just the people who voted for them.  Has anyone ever tried to tell Trump that?  That he is doing his job for everyone in the US, not just the ones who voted for him?

Gah.

To me, it's on par with all of the people in Congress constantly making statements about the "outsiders" coming into their district/state to cause trouble. The Rep from NY24 did it yesterday, it was this whole big thing about how people from NY Indivisible were just interlopers trying to get between him and his constituents. A bunch of people did it during the DeVos hearings, "Oh, people from out of state are jamming up my phone lines." Bullshit.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

Malaysia41

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2822
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Half Way Around The World
    • My mmm journal
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2172 on: February 17, 2017, 07:24:20 AM »
These 'outsiders' are the constituents who've been woken up from their apolitical slumber.

I hate the two party system - but if the progressives don't start getting out the right messaging and framing NOW to attract all the middle-of-the-road Trump supporters, I don't see how they'll ever be able to get those people back.

Progressive values:

The government's job is to protect the constitutional rights of all American citizens, to empower people to become healthy, prosperous, and to pursue their own happiness. Basic healthcare, world class education. Cooperation.

If they keep speaking in GOP-ese this shit show will just result in another republican taking the helm.

It's those sleeping constituents who need to speak up and make a difference. It's like what the guy from Venezuela advised - you have to go have a beer with the people who've identified with the other team. Explain - using your own language - why your values make sense. Stop with this Ayn Rand supply-side Jesus speak and discuss what it is to be fucking human.

Again - it's a rant - but I'm one of those sleeping constituents. And I'm wide awake. I've been writing blog posts on 'Issues That Unite Us' and reaching out to the Trumpsters in my family to get common ground on some issues.
Last one to panic wins!

My Rohingya Refugee Charity (now Tax Exempt!)

I'm an enemy of POTUS, VPOTUS, and the privately funded political system that inflicted them upon us.

Tasty Pinecones

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2173 on: February 17, 2017, 08:34:59 AM »
By the way, if you want a quick sense of how "the right" is casting this (with a typical "tu quoque" bullshit argument, of course):

I should be receiving this by email from various family and friends any day now... -eye roller-

What if you check your phone in your luggage? Or ditch the iPhone / Samsung S-series for a $10-ish phone for the trip? Still have the web, still have GPS, still have texting. I carry a phone like this all the time. If I wanted to travel out of the country all I'd have to do is remove the microSD card and leave it at home. Not much else on the phone after that. I'd carry a separate camera anyhow as I don't do social media for reasons of privacy.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 08:43:13 AM by Tasty Pinecones »

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3608
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2174 on: February 17, 2017, 09:46:05 AM »
Let us not forget the more run of the mill greed and fiscal irresponsibility the Trump family is indulging in weekly at taxpayer expense (total coincidence that Trump's businesses are benefitting from the expense, of course):

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-family%E2%80%99s-elaborate-lifestyle-is-a-%E2%80%98logistical-nightmare%E2%80%99-%E2%80%94-at-taxpayer-expense/ar-AAn1H4A?li=BBnb7Kz
While I can see the greed, I don't see the fiscal irresponsibility. I mean, even if he quadruples the expense of protecting a president to 200 million over his 4 year term, that's not even a rounding error in terms of the U.S. budget.

Please.
Color me unimpressed with outrage over .0001 percent of the federal budget.

0.0001% of the 2015 federal budget is $3.8 million.  Are you using alternative math?

accolay

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2175 on: February 17, 2017, 11:31:42 AM »
These 'outsiders' are the constituents who've been woken up from their apolitical slumber.

I hate the two party system - but if the progressives don't start getting out the right messaging and framing NOW to attract all the middle-of-the-road Trump supporters, I don't see how they'll ever be able to get those people back.

I agree with your rant...but none of it matters unless the sleepy outsiders get fired up enough to vote. People can march in the streets, have their rants, yell at the television and radio, if the Left can't win elections (which Republicans do well with their machine, Federal, state and local elections, which has built us up to where we are today) then we're never going to hear the end of this ridiculous bullshit. We wont be able to have an effective government of reasonable people, with reasonable compromise.

Pathetic really since the nation's memory and attention span is so short. Midterms are less than two years away, but we'll see if that's long enough for forgetfulness complacency.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7021
  • Registered member
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2176 on: February 17, 2017, 11:45:29 AM »
By the way, if you want a quick sense of how "the right" is casting this (with a typical "tu quoque" bullshit argument, of course):

I should be receiving this by email from various family and friends any day now... -eye roller-

What if you check your phone in your luggage? Or ditch the iPhone / Samsung S-series for a $10-ish phone for the trip? Still have the web, still have GPS, still have texting. I carry a phone like this all the time. If I wanted to travel out of the country all I'd have to do is remove the microSD card and leave it at home. Not much else on the phone after that. I'd carry a separate camera anyhow as I don't do social media for reasons of privacy.

They can still search your luggage (and probably will if you reach this point).  I could buy a dumb phone but I don't really see the point in spending more money... I don't make phone calls so there's really no point.  How suspicious is it to travel without a phone?  More directly, what does it matter if you are suspicious?  Has anyone been detained for traveling with a wiped phone or no phone and how lon was that detention compared to someone traveling with full contacts (but no wrongdoing)?

dividendman

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
  • Age: 34
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2177 on: February 17, 2017, 12:21:22 PM »
Just mail the phone to yourself. That way when the package gets to customs, they won't have anyone to interrogate even if they do want access.

RangerOne

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2178 on: February 17, 2017, 04:11:00 PM »
You seriously don't see how unethical this is? If I take one measly dollar from a $10,000 charity drive I was in charge of to buy myself a coffee, I have still committed a serious breach of ethics, regardless of how tiny my impact was on the bottom line.
The article was focused on the increase in cost to protect Trump and his family due to their 'jet-setting lifestyle'. Are you arguing something else? Because then we would not be discussing the same things.

So you are saying you are fine with our president and his family adopting a jet-setting lifestyle the likes of which the office has never seen just because it doesn't represent a meaningful % of a $4 trillion budget? We shouldn't hold our president to any standards whatsoever of being personally responsible for his discretionary use of taxpayer funds for entirely personal gains? It doesn't matter that in addition to getting tons of free vacations that come with mega expensive private security, he is simultaneously profiting from both? And I suppose you would be cool with him stealing from the church collection plate while he's at it? Jesus man.
Meh. This is several different arguments wrapped up in one. I'm fine with some of them, such as the 'jet setting lifestyle.' This has been his lifestyle literally his entire life. I don't expect him to change significantly because he is the president - that I think would be unfair. I didn't expect Bush to not spend time in Texas or Obama to not go golfing in Hawaii, even though it would have not doubt been cheaper if they had stayed in Washington watching TV on the weekends.

Wow Mouse, you are getting to be just about as good at this as POTUS :)
Well if one wishes to discuss greed and graft and stealing from the government, that is fine, but this was not how the question was phrased, nor the main point of the article covered. I don't find paying for protection of the POTUS to be a great burden upon the country.

The sad truth of the matter is that Trump has a much larger family than our previous two presidents and they all have ample reason to travel. He also is in the unique position of having a young son attending better schools at he would likely get for him as president and probably having a wife who isn't too into the political scene and enjoys some space from him....

And at the end of the day they are not prisoners and we cover security. There is pretty much no getting around it costs a hell of a lot more to pay for security of the Trump family because they can afford to travel a whole hell of a lot and are generally going to expensive areas surrounded by people.

I would be pissed if it came out that he is using tax payer money to pay for huge portions of travel totally unrelated to security and were purely for personal business or entertainment. But it would be more of a general your a piece of shit feeling but there are much more important grievances to worry about.

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6025
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2179 on: February 17, 2017, 04:33:32 PM »

The sad truth of the matter is that Trump has a much larger family than our previous two presidents and they all have ample reason to travel. He also is in the unique position of having a young son attending better schools at he would likely get for him as president and probably having a wife who isn't too into the political scene and enjoys some space from him....

And at the end of the day they are not prisoners and we cover security. There is pretty much no getting around it costs a hell of a lot more to pay for security of the Trump family because they can afford to travel a whole hell of a lot and are generally going to expensive areas surrounded by people.

I would be pissed if it came out that he is using tax payer money to pay for huge portions of travel totally unrelated to security and were purely for personal business or entertainment. But it would be more of a general your a piece of shit feeling but there are much more important grievances to worry about.

Interesting article in WaPo in case you haven't seen it:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-familys-elaborate-lifestyle-a-logistical-nightmare--at-taxpayer-expense/2017/02/16/763cce8e-f2ce-11e6-a9b0-ecee7ce475fc_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumptravel-530pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.22f3962f7de2

I get the reasons why protecting Trump will cost 8-15x more to protect Trump and his family more than it cost to protect Obama.* 
what irritates the hell out of me is that Trump *is* profiting from this.  He owns most of the businesses where he travels, and the added personnel rent rooms at whatever rate he charges them (and he just increased fees at Maralargo).
Just another conflict of interest that's becoming so routine these days.

*estimates put Obama's security detail at ~$97MM over all eight years.  NYC is spending $183MM alone to secure Trump Tower each year.
"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

Lagom

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1201
  • Age: 34
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2180 on: February 17, 2017, 04:39:19 PM »
The sad truth of the matter is that Trump has a much larger family than our previous two presidents and they all have ample reason to travel. He also is in the unique position of having a young son attending better schools at he would likely get for him as president and probably having a wife who isn't too into the political scene and enjoys some space from him....

And at the end of the day they are not prisoners and we cover security. There is pretty much no getting around it costs a hell of a lot more to pay for security of the Trump family because they can afford to travel a whole hell of a lot and are generally going to expensive areas surrounded by people.

I would be pissed if it came out that he is using tax payer money to pay for huge portions of travel totally unrelated to security and were purely for personal business or entertainment. But it would be more of a general your a piece of shit feeling but there are much more important grievances to worry about.

Meh. I don't even really disagree. It's not like I was claiming THIS, of all things, is the reason to impeach or whatever. I do object to them personally profiting from these forays, however, and related things like having the DOD rent out space in Trump tower, etc. Also, he has gone on three vacations in three weeks, which is intrinsically excessive and hypocritical, given his past comments on Obama. I don't think any of the above is necessarily illegal, just highly unethical.

Kris

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2318
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2181 on: February 17, 2017, 04:47:41 PM »
The sad truth of the matter is that Trump has a much larger family than our previous two presidents and they all have ample reason to travel. He also is in the unique position of having a young son attending better schools at he would likely get for him as president and probably having a wife who isn't too into the political scene and enjoys some space from him....

And at the end of the day they are not prisoners and we cover security. There is pretty much no getting around it costs a hell of a lot more to pay for security of the Trump family because they can afford to travel a whole hell of a lot and are generally going to expensive areas surrounded by people.

I would be pissed if it came out that he is using tax payer money to pay for huge portions of travel totally unrelated to security and were purely for personal business or entertainment. But it would be more of a general your a piece of shit feeling but there are much more important grievances to worry about.

Meh. I don't even really disagree. It's not like I was claiming THIS, of all things, is the reason to impeach or whatever. I do object to them personally profiting from these forays, however, and related things like having the DOD rent out space in Trump tower, etc. Also, he has gone on three vacations in three weeks, which is intrinsically excessive and hypocritical, given his past comments on Obama. I don't think any of the above is necessarily illegal, just highly unethical.

I agree.

Unfortunately, these are such small issues next to the MASSIVE issues in his presidency that this is just an infuriating irritant, much like a family of rich, entitled mosquitoes buzzing around our ears.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Cressida

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1776
  • Location: Sunset Zone 5
  • gender is a hierarchy
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2182 on: February 17, 2017, 09:23:45 PM »
I'm sure some of you are familiar with the story of the Vox reporter who went to Kentucky and found many people who rely on Obamacare and voted for Trump. I was listening to a short podcast about it today. Here's an exact quote from one of these people:

"All Obamacare was, was, everybody's giving Obama our money, our hard-earned money, just so that way he can take a five-million-dollar vacation to the Bahamas instead of giving our military the weapons and the stuff they needed."

This is why someone invented the phrase "I don't know where to start."

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5313
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2183 on: February 17, 2017, 09:25:30 PM »

The sad truth of the matter is that Trump has a much larger family than our previous two presidents and they all have ample reason to travel. He also is in the unique position of having a young son attending better schools at he would likely get for him as president and probably having a wife who isn't too into the political scene and enjoys some space from him....

And at the end of the day they are not prisoners and we cover security. There is pretty much no getting around it costs a hell of a lot more to pay for security of the Trump family because they can afford to travel a whole hell of a lot and are generally going to expensive areas surrounded by people.

I would be pissed if it came out that he is using tax payer money to pay for huge portions of travel totally unrelated to security and were purely for personal business or entertainment. But it would be more of a general your a piece of shit feeling but there are much more
right?
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2184 on: February 17, 2017, 09:31:56 PM »
I'm sure some of you are familiar with the story of the Vox reporter who went to Kentucky and found many people who rely on Obamacare and voted for Trump. I was listening to a short podcast about it today. Here's an exact quote from one of these people:

"All Obamacare was, was, everybody's giving Obama our money, our hard-earned money, just so that way he can take a five-million-dollar vacation to the Bahamas instead of giving our military the weapons and the stuff they needed."

This is why someone invented the phrase "I don't know where to start."
Also, the phrase "Not even wrong", as popularized by (I think) Wolfgang Pauli

calimom

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
  • Location: Northern California
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2185 on: February 17, 2017, 10:29:08 PM »
You seriously don't see how unethical this is? If I take one measly dollar from a $10,000 charity drive I was in charge of to buy myself a coffee, I have still committed a serious breach of ethics, regardless of how tiny my impact was on the bottom line.
The article was focused on the increase in cost to protect Trump and his family due to their 'jet-setting lifestyle'. Are you arguing something else? Because then we would not be discussing the same things.

So you are saying you are fine with our president and his family adopting a jet-setting lifestyle the likes of which the office has never seen just because it doesn't represent a meaningful % of a $4 trillion budget? We shouldn't hold our president to any standards whatsoever of being personally responsible for his discretionary use of taxpayer funds for entirely personal gains? It doesn't matter that in addition to getting tons of free vacations that come with mega expensive private security, he is simultaneously profiting from both? And I suppose you would be cool with him stealing from the church collection plate while he's at it? Jesus man.
Meh. This is several different arguments wrapped up in one. I'm fine with some of them, such as the 'jet setting lifestyle.' This has been his lifestyle literally his entire life. I don't expect him to change significantly because he is the president - that I think would be unfair. I didn't expect Bush to not spend time in Texas or Obama to not go golfing in Hawaii, even though it would have not doubt been cheaper if they had stayed in Washington watching TV on the weekends.

Wow Mouse, you are getting to be just about as good at this as POTUS :)
Well if one wishes to discuss greed and graft and stealing from the government, that is fine, but this was not how the question was phrased, nor the main point of the article covered. I don't find paying for protection of the POTUS to be a great burden upon the country.

The sad truth of the matter is that Trump has a much larger family than our previous two presidents and they all have ample reason to travel. He also is in the unique position of having a young son attending better schools at he would likely get for him as president and probably having a wife who isn't too into the political scene and enjoys some space from him....

And at the end of the day they are not prisoners and we cover security. There is pretty much no getting around it costs a hell of a lot more to pay for security of the Trump family because they can afford to travel a whole hell of a lot and are generally going to expensive areas surrounded by people.

I would be pissed if it came out that he is using tax payer money to pay for huge portions of travel totally unrelated to security and were purely for personal business or entertainment. But it would be more of a general your a piece of shit feeling but there are much more important grievances to worry about.

Does anyone remember the uproar that Michelle Obama's trip created in 2010? When Republican "taxpayers" fainted over the less then $500,000 cost of travel and security? When they felt it would bankrupt the country? When she and her family were received as goodwill ambassadors?

Conversely, does anyone remember the interview DJT had with Leslie Stahl of "60 Minutes" a week or so after the election? When said DJT claimed to only take a dollar per year as salary because of you, fiscal responsibility and all.

So, we (as taxpayers) pay enormous amounts to fly around and protect the Trump purse-selleing and hotel-promoting brand about the planet, and this is perfectly acceptable, yes/

KBecks

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 721
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2186 on: February 18, 2017, 06:33:42 AM »
It's normal that each side complains about the other sides vacations and travel.  This has been going on for decades.  Republicans will say that Obama spent a hell of a lot of time playing golf in Hawaii, and Democrats will complain about the Trump family's travel.   There's nothing new here. 


gaja

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2187 on: February 18, 2017, 07:02:08 AM »
Travelling southern Norway, Iceland and the Faroes in an electric car: http://travelelectric.blogspot.no/

scottish

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2188 on: February 18, 2017, 07:54:26 AM »
In other news, Trump claims that the media are the enemy of the people.    Echos of communism!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39015559

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7021
  • Registered member
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2189 on: February 18, 2017, 08:35:16 AM »
It's normal that each side complains about the other sides vacations and travel.  This has been going on for decades.  Republicans will say that Obama spent a hell of a lot of time playing golf in Hawaii, and Democrats will complain about the Trump family's travel.   There's nothing new here.

Yeah, remember when Obama criticized the amount of vacation Bush took and then proceeded to take more?  That was fantastically hypocritically.  Literally, as in fantasy.

Trump, on the other hand...

dividendman

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
  • Age: 34
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2190 on: February 18, 2017, 09:52:25 AM »
So... republicans have the Congress and the Presidency... shouldn't one impact of this be some fuckin' tax cuts? Where are my tax cuts. They always talk about tax cuts. Can we have some tax cuts?

I'm fine with corporate tax cuts too.

And no, Trump saying he is going to do something "great" on taxes doesn't count. Legislation proposed and passed counts though. Hopefully retroactive to to this year.

If the republicans were smart they'd make the tax cuts retroactive to this year so everyone gets a nice rebate cheque next year in time for the mid-terms.

Lagom

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1201
  • Age: 34
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2191 on: February 18, 2017, 11:50:43 AM »
It's normal that each side complains about the other sides vacations and travel.  This has been going on for decades.  Republicans will say that Obama spent a hell of a lot of time playing golf in Hawaii, and Democrats will complain about the Trump family's travel.   There's nothing new here.

Yeah, remember when Obama criticized the amount of vacation Bush took and then proceeded to take more?  That was fantastically hypocritically.  Literally, as in fantasy.

Trump, on the other hand...

See now this is my problem with those who support Trump, and also a good example of the (apparent) fact that you have to lie to yourself to find it acceptable to continue that support. I get it, this is far from the biggest scandal ever (even within his own month-old administration!), but the linked article clearly shows that his level of spending (relative only to the movements of himself and his family) is massively unprecedented, as is the fact that his family is personally profiting to the tune of millions of dollars off of that spending.

An honest supporter would say something like "yeah, I don't like that he does that, it's pretty shady, probably unethical, and admittedly worse than even Obama was acting with his vacations, but it's also not that important in the grand scheme of all of the good he's doing." I mean, I obviously disagree with that statement as well, but at least it shows some willingness to accept that the Orange one has some flaws that his predecessors did not. Instead we just get more "bla bla bla Obama/Hillary were just as bad, bla bla bla." This, Trump supporters, is why the rest of us have a hard time taking you seriously.

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6025
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2192 on: February 18, 2017, 12:53:06 PM »
So... republicans have the Congress and the Presidency... shouldn't one impact of this be some fuckin' tax cuts? Where are my tax cuts. They always talk about tax cuts. Can we have some tax cuts?

I'm fine with corporate tax cuts too.

And no, Trump saying he is going to do something "great" on taxes doesn't count. Legislation proposed and passed counts though. Hopefully retroactive to to this year.

If the republicans were smart they'd make the tax cuts retroactive to this year so everyone gets a nice rebate cheque next year in time for the mid-terms.
It will be interesting to see what the GOP proposes with their first budget under DJT. He's obviously pushing hard for a combination of massive tax cuts with a huge infrastructure bill, but there are enough fiscal hawks within the party that this could become a giant intraparty poo-fight.

Personally I expect to see both tax cuts and a big jump in infrastructure and military spending. My big question is how long the party will be able to hold these massive deficits up without fracturing the party.
"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

Abe

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 756
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2193 on: February 18, 2017, 02:03:59 PM »
It seems the game plan is:
Step 1: yuuge tax cuts
Step 2: increase defense spending to defeat ISIS, ICE funding to defeat illegal immigrants
Step 3: blame sad democrats (and lying media) for deficits that libertarians point out
Step 4: defund government agencies that regulate stuff
Step 5: win mid-terms because now we are safe

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6025
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2194 on: February 18, 2017, 02:19:27 PM »
It seems the game plan is:
Step 1: yuuge tax cuts
Step 2: increase defense spending to defeat ISIS, ICE funding to defeat illegal immigrants
Step 3: blame sad democrats (and lying media) for deficits that libertarians point out
Step 4: defund government agencies that regulate stuff
Step 5: win mid-terms because now we are safe
Probably not far off, but you forgot:
Step 6: suffer countless strings of environmental disasters because no one was regulating
Step 7: economy tanks when super-bubble pops from financial sector taking ridiculous risks while no one was watching
Step 8: enter new quagmire because super-beefed up military needs to be used, right?
Step 9: corruption on a new scale for America result from undisclosed conflict of interests.

Actually, i'm not sure the exact order of 6, 7, 8, & 9 but I"m pretty sure all will come to pass in one form or another over the next 4 years.
"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5313
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2195 on: February 18, 2017, 02:40:41 PM »
It's normal that each side complains about the other sides vacations and travel.  This has been going on for decades.  Republicans will say that Obama spent a hell of a lot of time playing golf in Hawaii, and Democrats will complain about the Trump family's travel.   There's nothing new here.

Yeah, remember when Obama criticized the amount of vacation Bush took and then proceeded to take more?  That was fantastically hypocritically.  Literally, as in fantasy.

Trump, on the other hand...

See now this is my problem with those who support Trump, and also a good example of the (apparent) fact that you have to lie to yourself to find it acceptable to continue that support. I get it, this is far from the biggest scandal ever (even within his own month-old administration!), but the linked article clearly shows that his level of spending (relative only to the movements of himself and his family) is massively unprecedented, as is the fact that his family is personally profiting to the tune of millions of dollars off of that spending.

An honest supporter would say something like "yeah, I don't like that he does that, it's pretty shady, probably unethical, and admittedly worse than even Obama was acting with his vacations, but it's also not that important in the grand scheme of all of the good he's doing." I mean, I obviously disagree with that statement as well, but at least it shows some willingness to accept that the Orange one has some flaws that his predecessors did not. Instead we just get more "bla bla bla Obama/Hillary were just as bad, bla bla bla." This, Trump supporters, is why the rest of us have a hard time taking you seriously.
Has anybody on this thread said "blah blah blah, Obama was worse?" Because I literally have not seen anyone making that argument about this spending. Straw man? Again?
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5313
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2196 on: February 18, 2017, 02:43:40 PM »
It seems the game plan is:
Step 1: yuuge tax cuts
Step 2: increase defense spending to defeat ISIS, ICE funding to defeat illegal immigrants
Step 3: blame sad democrats (and lying media) for deficits that libertarians point out
Step 4: defund government agencies that regulate stuff
Step 5: win mid-terms because now we are safe
Probably not far off, but you forgot:
Step 6: suffer countless strings of environmental disasters because no one was regulating
Step 7: economy tanks when super-bubble pops from financial sector taking ridiculous risks while no one was watching
Step 8: enter new quagmire because super-beefed up military needs to be used, right?
Step 9: corruption on a new scale for America result from undisclosed conflict of interests.

Actually, i'm not sure the exact order of 6, 7, 8, & 9 but I"m pretty sure all will come to pass in one form or another over the next 4 years.
I'd take a few bucks on that bet. I honestly don't see them all happening for only the reasons you propose in the next four years.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

nereo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6025
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2197 on: February 18, 2017, 02:50:52 PM »
It seems the game plan is:
Step 1: yuuge tax cuts
Step 2: increase defense spending to defeat ISIS, ICE funding to defeat illegal immigrants
Step 3: blame sad democrats (and lying media) for deficits that libertarians point out
Step 4: defund government agencies that regulate stuff
Step 5: win mid-terms because now we are safe
Probably not far off, but you forgot:
Step 6: suffer countless strings of environmental disasters because no one was regulating
Step 7: economy tanks when super-bubble pops from financial sector taking ridiculous risks while no one was watching
Step 8: enter new quagmire because super-beefed up military needs to be used, right?
Step 9: corruption on a new scale for America result from undisclosed conflict of interests.

Actually, i'm not sure the exact order of 6, 7, 8, & 9 but I"m pretty sure all will come to pass in one form or another over the next 4 years.
I'd take a few bucks on that bet. I honestly don't see them all happening for only the reasons you propose in the next four years.

I honestly don't evne know how one would judge that bet.  Causes in this case would be particularly difficult to determine - for example if there's some large environmental disaster one could suggest (but never prove) that it would have been avoided had regulation been in place.  or: if no major corruption comes out, is it because there was none, or because there's a complete and utter lack of transparency to allow for discovery?
I was also speaking a bit hyperbolicaly.  I still think at least 2 of the 4 will occur over the next 4 years.
::shrug::  I hope it doesn't, but I suspect it will.
"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

Lagom

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1201
  • Age: 34
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2198 on: February 18, 2017, 03:01:39 PM »
Has anybody on this thread said "blah blah blah, Obama was worse?" Because I literally have not seen anyone making that argument about this spending. Straw man? Again?

Not even I said that. I said others are calling him "just as bad," of which there are many many examples, including (by inference) the very post I quoted ("nothing new here"). Not sure why you're picking these nits so aggressively with me lately but again you're off base. No straw man here. Just a clearly stated observation that is easily verifiable.

You claim to be objective and dislike things about Trump, but not even you will concede this extremely minor and pretty much irrefutable point about his fiscal irresponsibility (or at a minimum hypocrisy). Strange, really.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 03:03:52 PM by Lagom »

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5313
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2199 on: February 18, 2017, 03:07:58 PM »

I honestly don't evne know how one would judge that bet.  Causes in this case would be particularly difficult to determine - for example if there's some large environmental disaster one could suggest (but never prove) that it would have been avoided had regulation been in place.  or: if no major corruption comes out, is it because there was none, or because there's a complete and utter lack of transparency to allow for discovery?
I was also speaking a bit hyperbolicaly.  I still think at least 2 of the 4 will occur over the next 4 years.
::shrug::  I hope it doesn't, but I suspect it will.
That was why I felt fairly safe taking this bet. :)
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM