Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 367650 times)

gaja

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1550 on: January 30, 2017, 02:56:53 PM »
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Other side of the pond here, but the last time dear neighbour Russia got fascist friends, it didn't turn out so good for us. I've been considering getting a hunting license for several years, maybe it is time to do that now. And hide a couple of radios around. 
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t5inside

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1551 on: January 30, 2017, 03:03:01 PM »
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

Cranberries

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1552 on: January 30, 2017, 03:04:52 PM »

I am doing those things--and will keep at it-- but it feels like it won't be enough. :(

I am finding that directly engaging is helping a lot with the despair. I just spent most of the weekend at SFO. One thing they never tell you is that activism can be really fun. The connection with others is awesome, the chants and music can sweep you along, the signs and direct actions are often hilarious. It's really, really hard for me to stay inspired and hopeful when I'm trying for the sixth time that week to get through to my senators, but much easier to do so when I am surrounded by three thousand people bouncing to a brass band, and sharing food and struggles and joys with all of the people around me.

BrightFIRE

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1553 on: January 30, 2017, 03:25:36 PM »
before 46% of American voters decided Trump was what we needed

I feel the need to correct this, mostly because it makes me feel better to know it's a smaller percentage of the country who supports hateful bigots. 27.2% of eligible voters voted for Trump. 44.37% of the population didn't even vote. He doesn't remotely have the support of "the people".

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1554 on: January 30, 2017, 03:35:54 PM »
This is just the 'establish dominance' phase.    Once he's demonstrated that he's in charge, purged the ranks of the disloyal and finished appointing his supporters you'll start to see real change!

Makes me glad you have a strong constitution down there.
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MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1555 on: January 30, 2017, 03:39:35 PM »
Trump is smashing records and getting shit done!!

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ouch...

So is it weird that a Republican president is the one that makes me really feel like I may actually need to buy a rifle to protect my neighbors from an overly opressive government? I've never felt so tinfoily before, and am generally pretty positive, but if relocation camps are next on the list...

Would it at all be surprising? I mean his Muslim ban is more likely to encourage even more home grown terrorism. He just might use the next domestic terror attack to enforce interment camps or whatever. Well at least he left countries with personal business interest off the list.


RangerOne

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1556 on: January 30, 2017, 03:55:41 PM »
While removing many "federal" government business regulations would help it make it easier for some business to boost profits, blanket stating that you are going to cut X% of "federal regulations", not stating whether you mean existing or new yet to be implemented ones is an unsupportable statement.

I understand that there is truth behind the thought process that government is just a machine that pumps out shit laws and regulations made to bloat the governments size. But its a sentiment that is often taken to far and used as an excuse to give a conservative administration popular license to take a sledge hammer to good laws and regulations to help their corporate donors.

Its just the flip side of the coin of a Democratic administration allowing shitty regulations to persist or be created to help their corporate donors... So forgive me if I don't get excited when an administration makes vague statements about making new regulations or shit canning X% of existing ones.

The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have. Within 1 week Donald Trump is on course make Obama's approach seem tame. Its seems like his governing approach is targeting make everything an executive order, undermine the media's response, and then probably find a way to undermine the judicial branches response to bad orders. Definitely sounds democratic to me...

RangerOne

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1557 on: January 30, 2017, 03:59:25 PM »
This is just the 'establish dominance' phase.    Once he's demonstrated that he's in charge, purged the ranks of the disloyal and finished appointing his supporters you'll start to see real change!

Makes me glad you have a strong constitution down there.

Why would he ever leave the establish dominance phase? Trump has an endless desire to create controversy and shit on his public opponents. He is going to keep signing executive orders till he is shitting blood.

People said he would calm down after he won. Every-time he has progressed he has just doubled down and moved 10 times faster. He is trying to full fill all his promises like a bat out of hell regardless of consequences, legality or planning.

RangerOne

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1558 on: January 30, 2017, 04:02:52 PM »
Trump is smashing records and getting shit done!!

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ouch...

So is it weird that a Republican president is the one that makes me really feel like I may actually need to buy a rifle to protect my neighbors from an overly opressive government? I've never felt so tinfoily before, and am generally pretty positive, but if relocation camps are next on the list...

Would it at all be surprising? I mean his Muslim ban is more likely to encourage even more home grown terrorism. He just might use the next domestic terror attack to enforce interment camps or whatever. Well at least he left countries with personal business interest off the list.

It would be the smart thing to do. If a terrorists goal is to take our freedoms nothing would be easier than to push Trump over the edge and given him the popular support to actively attack Muslims. Right now he only has support of most of his base but those people are only scared because of fake news.

If we had another 9/11 type attack then real fear we overtake his entire base and some of those who are against him now. The sad part is such and attack would be 100% confirmation that his approach is the wrong one.

DoubleDown

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1559 on: January 30, 2017, 04:04:40 PM »
I take some solace that in just one week, the sheer magnitude of lunacy and demonstrated hostility towards facts, may end up hastening a Trump impeachment. Congressional Republicans are going to give this nut-job all kinds of latitude since he will allow them to pass their agenda and appoint Supreme Court justices that undo all the things they hate like gay marriage, Roe v. Wade, Obamacare, etc. But they may reach a limit pretty quickly if the craziness continues on this scale on a weekly basis. Not to mention that no one should be shocked if someone digs up some stuff on Trump that truly threatens his presidency. Clinton was impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, it doesn't take that much. They know that a "President Pence" would be just as agreeable to their agenda, but without the lunacy. Liberals won't like that agenda any better, but at least Pence would likely follow the rule of law and ditch the craziness and opposition to reality/facts.
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JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1560 on: January 30, 2017, 04:04:43 PM »
While removing many "federal" government business regulations would help it make it easier for some business to boost profits, blanket stating that you are going to cut X% of "federal regulations", not stating whether you mean existing or new yet to be implemented ones is an unsupportable statement.

I understand that there is truth behind the thought process that government is just a machine that pumps out shit laws and regulations made to bloat the governments size. But its a sentiment that is often taken to far and used as an excuse to give a conservative administration popular license to take a sledge hammer to good laws and regulations to help their corporate donors.

Its just the flip side of the coin of a Democratic administration allowing shitty regulations to persist or be created to help their corporate donors... So forgive me if I don't get excited when an administration makes vague statements about making new regulations or shit canning X% of existing ones.

The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have. Within 1 week Donald Trump is on course make Obama's approach seem tame. Its seems like his governing approach is targeting make everything an executive order, undermine the media's response, and then probably find a way to undermine the judicial branches response to bad orders. Definitely sounds democratic to me...

Compared to who?

Obama averaged 34.6 executive orders per year, which puts him at 23rd of all presidents -- the fewest orders per year of any president since Grover Cleveland in the 1880's.

Gondolin

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1561 on: January 30, 2017, 04:08:54 PM »
Quote
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

What the hell for? Is there some scenario where you imagine yourself revolting in armed militias? Or just dying in shootout with the Gestapo?

Please remember all this 5-10 years from now when there's another spasm of anger over lax gun laws and everyone is shrieking about how dumb 2nd amendment militiamen are.
"There cannot be two skies"

RangerOne

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1562 on: January 30, 2017, 04:10:41 PM »
While removing many "federal" government business regulations would help it make it easier for some business to boost profits, blanket stating that you are going to cut X% of "federal regulations", not stating whether you mean existing or new yet to be implemented ones is an unsupportable statement.

I understand that there is truth behind the thought process that government is just a machine that pumps out shit laws and regulations made to bloat the governments size. But its a sentiment that is often taken to far and used as an excuse to give a conservative administration popular license to take a sledge hammer to good laws and regulations to help their corporate donors.

Its just the flip side of the coin of a Democratic administration allowing shitty regulations to persist or be created to help their corporate donors... So forgive me if I don't get excited when an administration makes vague statements about making new regulations or shit canning X% of existing ones.

The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have. Within 1 week Donald Trump is on course make Obama's approach seem tame. Its seems like his governing approach is targeting make everything an executive order, undermine the media's response, and then probably find a way to undermine the judicial branches response to bad orders. Definitely sounds democratic to me...

Compared to who?

Obama averaged 34.6 executive orders per year, which puts him at 23rd of all presidents -- the fewest orders per year of any president since Grover Cleveland in the 1880's.

From conservatives and radio personalities... Not saying the criticism is historically valid. Though I admit I hadn't found time to verify how off base those statements were or are.

Gondolin

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1563 on: January 30, 2017, 04:11:08 PM »
Quote
The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have.

Compared to who?

'Alternative' news sources mostly. I hear Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya too!
"There cannot be two skies"

JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1564 on: January 30, 2017, 04:12:09 PM »
While removing many "federal" government business regulations would help it make it easier for some business to boost profits, blanket stating that you are going to cut X% of "federal regulations", not stating whether you mean existing or new yet to be implemented ones is an unsupportable statement.

I understand that there is truth behind the thought process that government is just a machine that pumps out shit laws and regulations made to bloat the governments size. But its a sentiment that is often taken to far and used as an excuse to give a conservative administration popular license to take a sledge hammer to good laws and regulations to help their corporate donors.

Its just the flip side of the coin of a Democratic administration allowing shitty regulations to persist or be created to help their corporate donors... So forgive me if I don't get excited when an administration makes vague statements about making new regulations or shit canning X% of existing ones.

The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have. Within 1 week Donald Trump is on course make Obama's approach seem tame. Its seems like his governing approach is targeting make everything an executive order, undermine the media's response, and then probably find a way to undermine the judicial branches response to bad orders. Definitely sounds democratic to me...

Compared to who?

Obama averaged 34.6 executive orders per year, which puts him at 23rd of all presidents -- the fewest orders per year of any president since Grover Cleveland in the 1880's.

From conservatives and radio personalities... Not saying the criticism is historically valid. Though I admit I hadn't found time to verify how off base those statements were or are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders

The answer is "very."

Quote
The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have.

Compared to who?

'Alternative' news sources mostly. I hear Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya too!

Ha. Pretty much!

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1565 on: January 30, 2017, 04:18:13 PM »
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!
Oooh! Do let us know what you're looking at.  Either here or in the "Firearms in the home" thread.
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Gin1984

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1566 on: January 30, 2017, 04:34:11 PM »
I take some solace that in just one week, the sheer magnitude of lunacy and demonstrated hostility towards facts, may end up hastening a Trump impeachment. Congressional Republicans are going to give this nut-job all kinds of latitude since he will allow them to pass their agenda and appoint Supreme Court justices that undo all the things they hate like gay marriage, Roe v. Wade, Obamacare, etc. But they may reach a limit pretty quickly if the craziness continues on this scale on a weekly basis. Not to mention that no one should be shocked if someone digs up some stuff on Trump that truly threatens his presidency. Clinton was impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, it doesn't take that much. They know that a "President Pence" would be just as agreeable to their agenda, but without the lunacy. Liberals won't like that agenda any better, but at least Pence would likely follow the rule of law and ditch the craziness and opposition to reality/facts.
That is not true.  The GOP has been anti-fact and science for decades.  They spent over twenty years lying about the Clintons and other issues.  Trump is their logical conclusion.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1567 on: January 30, 2017, 04:40:03 PM »
Quote
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

What the hell for? Is there some scenario where you imagine yourself revolting in armed militias? Or just dying in shootout with the Gestapo?

Please remember all this 5-10 years from now when there's another spasm of anger over lax gun laws and everyone is shrieking about how dumb 2nd amendment militiamen are.

The gun owners on the left I've talked to aren't imagining defending themselves against the military. They are imagining defending themselves from angry Trump supporters with guns. (Before the election, it was that they were afraid that a Clinton victory would bring out crazed anti-Clinton people who would descend in the streets and go "liberal hunting." Now, it's that they feel emboldened and empowered by the idea that a Trump presidency basically encourages violence against people who don't agree with it. Which... isn't that far off.)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 04:45:00 PM by Kris »
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Gin1984

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1568 on: January 30, 2017, 04:42:24 PM »
Quote
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

What the hell for? Is there some scenario where you imagine yourself revolting in armed militias? Or just dying in shootout with the Gestapo?

Please remember all this 5-10 years from now when there's another spasm of anger over lax gun laws and everyone is shrieking about how dumb 2nd amendment militiamen are.
No, it because people are afraid of being attacked by other citizens and not getting help from the police.

DoubleDown

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1569 on: January 30, 2017, 04:52:58 PM »
I take some solace that in just one week, the sheer magnitude of lunacy and demonstrated hostility towards facts, may end up hastening a Trump impeachment. Congressional Republicans are going to give this nut-job all kinds of latitude since he will allow them to pass their agenda and appoint Supreme Court justices that undo all the things they hate like gay marriage, Roe v. Wade, Obamacare, etc. But they may reach a limit pretty quickly if the craziness continues on this scale on a weekly basis. Not to mention that no one should be shocked if someone digs up some stuff on Trump that truly threatens his presidency. Clinton was impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, it doesn't take that much. They know that a "President Pence" would be just as agreeable to their agenda, but without the lunacy. Liberals won't like that agenda any better, but at least Pence would likely follow the rule of law and ditch the craziness and opposition to reality/facts.
That is not true.  The GOP has been anti-fact and science for decades.  They spent over twenty years lying about the Clintons and other issues.  Trump is their logical conclusion.

I get what you're saying, but the magnitudes of lying aren't even close. We're talking mountain vs. molehill. Sure, plenty of politicians bend truth or interpret facts differently, choose to disbelieve scientific theories, or even sometimes outright lie when expedient. But there's no comparison between "regular" politician lies and the batshit craziness of Trump who spews out lies and wild conspiracy theories by the day that are demonstrably false (like from pictures at an inauguration). That's in a whole other league than objecting to climate science, IMO.
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t5inside

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1570 on: January 30, 2017, 04:58:24 PM »
Quote
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

What the hell for? Is there some scenario where you imagine yourself revolting in armed militias? Or just dying in shootout with the Gestapo?

Please remember all this 5-10 years from now when there's another spasm of anger over lax gun laws and everyone is shrieking about how dumb 2nd amendment militiamen are.
No, it because people are afraid of being attacked by other citizens and not getting help from the police.

Exactly. No need for personal attacks... I spent 6 years in the Air Force and didn't vote for this guy, I'm not a "militiaman" by any stretch, rather a concerned citizen who this administration has already shown open hostility towards. God forbid we ever have a need to use them, but prices are low after the Clinton loss (buy low sell high!) and it's better to have one and not need it than the opposite.

Do some research on Bannon and Flynn, they're openly calling for a "bloody war" against Islam (Bannon wants a "Christian militia", his own words) and are the closest advisors to this president to whom the ends justify the means. I have little doubt our institutions and people are strong enough that we will not let things reach that point, but at the same time I'm not going to be naive.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 08:22:27 AM by t5inside »

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1571 on: January 30, 2017, 05:13:27 PM »
A war would help to cement Trump's authority and provide more justification for increased homeland security and reduced freedoms for those who aren't members of the club.   It doesn't even have to be victorious, just drag on to justify whatever actions he wants to take.

I can see that.
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Poundwise

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1572 on: January 30, 2017, 09:41:45 PM »
What happens if most of the civil servant and Cabinet positions go unfilled? Can Trump  continue to function as he has, emitting executive orders? Are there any rules that he has to use the Secret Service, CIA, etc? Can he simply just hire his own private army and information service, and what regulations would they be subject to?


teen persuasion

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1573 on: January 30, 2017, 09:44:38 PM »
Local news was discussing how things are tightening up at the bridges (US - Canada border).  Things like increased scrutiny coming AND going, slower crossing times, biometric controls...  we like cross-border traffic here, it's an important part of the economy.  Slow things down, and people just won't choose to visit because it's too inconvenient.

Then there's all the students and faculty at local colleges and universities affected by the travel ban.  DS4's classes just resumed today, so not everyone may have made it back in time - if you had a semester break of more than 5 weeks, wouldn't you travel home for the holidays? Especially when you are expected to leave the dorms, and meal service doesn't resume until 1/29.  If home is too far away, might you take the opportunity to travel to Canada between semesters?  The news mentioned the economic effect here - universities encourage foreign students, since they pay up to 3.3 times what locals pay.  Scare them away, and the schools are underfunded.

bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1574 on: January 30, 2017, 10:09:09 PM »
I take some solace that in just one week, the sheer magnitude of lunacy and demonstrated hostility towards facts, may end up hastening a Trump impeachment. Congressional Republicans are going to give this nut-job all kinds of latitude since he will allow them to pass their agenda and appoint Supreme Court justices that undo all the things they hate like gay marriage, Roe v. Wade, Obamacare, etc. But they may reach a limit pretty quickly if the craziness continues on this scale on a weekly basis. Not to mention that no one should be shocked if someone digs up some stuff on Trump that truly threatens his presidency. Clinton was impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, it doesn't take that much. They know that a "President Pence" would be just as agreeable to their agenda, but without the lunacy. Liberals won't like that agenda any better, but at least Pence would likely follow the rule of law and ditch the craziness and opposition to reality/facts.
That is not true.  The GOP has been anti-fact and science for decades.  They spent over twenty years lying about the Clintons and other issues.  Trump is their logical conclusion.

I get what you're saying, but the magnitudes of lying aren't even close. We're talking mountain vs. molehill. Sure, plenty of politicians bend truth or interpret facts differently, choose to disbelieve scientific theories, or even sometimes outright lie when expedient. But there's no comparison between "regular" politician lies and the batshit craziness of Trump who spews out lies and wild conspiracy theories by the day that are demonstrably false (like from pictures at an inauguration). That's in a whole other league than objecting to climate science, IMO.

The House has to impeach. When Ryan spoke out against Trump, his ratings dropped by almost 30% in less than 2 weeks. He won't chance it.

sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1575 on: January 30, 2017, 10:44:26 PM »
What happens if most of the civil servant and Cabinet positions go unfilled?

This probably isn't coincidence.  Trump has cleaned house at the State Department, which would normally oppose something as blatantly illegal as a muslim ban, leaving it with a skeleton crew of senior executives and basically incapable of standing up for America's interests.  Trump seems to have no regard for what is best for the country.  Your concerns about "what if" are to my eyes deliberate machinations. 

He's not taking advantage of unfilled positions to remake America into a totalitarian regime, he's instituted a totalitarian regime by purging senior levels of government of anyone who's not a Trump loyalist.  Instituting illegal policy is step two in the process, not step one.
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llorona

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1576 on: January 31, 2017, 02:44:39 AM »
Trump and his posse are trampling over the Constitution. Too much is happening too fast. Information coming from the White House is opaque, convoluted, and cannot be trusted.

Republican Members of Congress need to open their eyes, start putting their country over party, and move to impeach, otherwise it's game over for the USA as we know it.

As a liberal, I will consider us lucky if we're left standing with Pence at the helm and both the ACA and Roe vs. Wade overturned.

MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1577 on: January 31, 2017, 05:22:36 AM »
What happens if most of the civil servant and Cabinet positions go unfilled?

This probably isn't coincidence.  Trump has cleaned house at the State Department, which would normally oppose something as blatantly illegal as a muslim ban, leaving it with a skeleton crew of senior executives and basically incapable of standing up for America's interests.  Trump seems to have no regard for what is best for the country.  Your concerns about "what if" are to my eyes deliberate machinations. 

He's not taking advantage of unfilled positions to remake America into a totalitarian regime, he's instituted a totalitarian regime by purging senior levels of government of anyone who's not a Trump loyalist.  Instituting illegal policy is step two in the process, not step one.

+1. One word "stategery." As batshit crazy as Trump is, he knows exactly what he is doing. It's amazing (well not really) how many of his die hard supporters are still defending him all in the name of "jobs and border security."

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1578 on: January 31, 2017, 06:36:17 AM »
Quote
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

What the hell for? Is there some scenario where you imagine yourself revolting in armed militias? Or just dying in shootout with the Gestapo?

Please remember all this 5-10 years from now when there's another spasm of anger over lax gun laws and everyone is shrieking about how dumb 2nd amendment militiamen are.
No, it because people are afraid of being attacked by other citizens and not getting help from the police.
Oddly, this is the exact same reason conservatives carry guns... perhaps they are not so different after all.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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Freedom2016

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1579 on: January 31, 2017, 06:43:46 AM »
What happens if most of the civil servant and Cabinet positions go unfilled?

This probably isn't coincidence.  Trump has cleaned house at the State Department, which would normally oppose something as blatantly illegal as a muslim ban, leaving it with a skeleton crew of senior executives and basically incapable of standing up for America's interests.  Trump seems to have no regard for what is best for the country.  Your concerns about "what if" are to my eyes deliberate machinations. 

He's not taking advantage of unfilled positions to remake America into a totalitarian regime, he's instituted a totalitarian regime by purging senior levels of government of anyone who's not a Trump loyalist.  Instituting illegal policy is step two in the process, not step one.

+1. One word "stategery." As batshit crazy as Trump is, he knows exactly what he is doing. It's amazing (well not really) how many of his die hard supporters are still defending him all in the name of "jobs and border security."

Except I don't think it's Trump who knows what he's doing....it's Bannon.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1580 on: January 31, 2017, 06:44:31 AM »
Trump and his posse are trampling over the Constitution. Too much is happening too fast. Information coming from the White House is opaque, convoluted, and cannot be trusted.

Republican Members of Congress need to open their eyes, start putting their country over party, and move to impeach, otherwise it's game over for the USA as we know it.

As a liberal, I will consider us lucky if we're left standing with Pence at the helm and both the ACA and Roe vs. Wade overturned.
Too much is happening too fast? All this was laid out long ago in his 100 day plan. I am continually surprised by people's surprise.

AS far as unconstitutional acts: Thank goodness we have checks and balances, and provisions in place to rectify bad laws.  The previous administration got slapped by the courts all the time over their actions. They took the licking and moved on.  The game will not end because of this.
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EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1581 on: January 31, 2017, 06:51:08 AM »
Trump and his posse are trampling over the Constitution. Too much is happening too fast. Information coming from the White House is opaque, convoluted, and cannot be trusted.

Republican Members of Congress need to open their eyes, start putting their country over party, and move to impeach, otherwise it's game over for the USA as we know it.

As a liberal, I will consider us lucky if we're left standing with Pence at the helm and both the ACA and Roe vs. Wade overturned.
Too much is happening too fast? All this was laid out long ago in his 100 day plan. I am continually surprised by people's surprise.

AS far as unconstitutional acts: Thank goodness we have checks and balances, and provisions in place to rectify bad laws.  The previous administration got slapped by the courts all the time over their actions. They took the licking and moved on.  The game will not end because of this.

Checks and balances like this?

Quote
WASHINGTON — Longtime federal prosecutor Dana Boente, the US Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, was named Monday by President Trump to replace Sally Yates as acting attorney general.

Yates was fired after she publicly questioned the constitutionality of his controversial refugee and immigration ban and refused to defend it in court.

Boente was sworn in privately, the White House said.

Boente promptly ordered Justice Department lawyers to ‘‘do our sworn duty and to defend the lawful orders of our President.’’
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MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1582 on: January 31, 2017, 06:55:27 AM »
Trump and his posse are trampling over the Constitution. Too much is happening too fast. Information coming from the White House is opaque, convoluted, and cannot be trusted.

Republican Members of Congress need to open their eyes, start putting their country over party, and move to impeach, otherwise it's game over for the USA as we know it.

As a liberal, I will consider us lucky if we're left standing with Pence at the helm and both the ACA and Roe vs. Wade overturned.
Too much is happening too fast? All this was laid out long ago in his 100 day plan. I am continually surprised by people's surprise.

AS far as unconstitutional acts: Thank goodness we have checks and balances, and provisions in place to rectify bad laws.  The previous administration got slapped by the courts all the time over their actions. They took the licking and moved on.  The game will not end because of this.

Yeah but when you manipulate the system of checks and balances it doesn't work very well. Again Trump et al. know what they are doing. "You're fired" isn't just a TV meme anymore.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1583 on: January 31, 2017, 06:58:11 AM »
Trump and his posse are trampling over the Constitution. Too much is happening too fast. Information coming from the White House is opaque, convoluted, and cannot be trusted.

Republican Members of Congress need to open their eyes, start putting their country over party, and move to impeach, otherwise it's game over for the USA as we know it.

As a liberal, I will consider us lucky if we're left standing with Pence at the helm and both the ACA and Roe vs. Wade overturned.
Too much is happening too fast? All this was laid out long ago in his 100 day plan. I am continually surprised by people's surprise.

AS far as unconstitutional acts: Thank goodness we have checks and balances, and provisions in place to rectify bad laws.  The previous administration got slapped by the courts all the time over their actions. They took the licking and moved on.  The game will not end because of this.

Checks and balances like this?

Quote
WASHINGTON — Longtime federal prosecutor Dana Boente, the US Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, was named Monday by President Trump to replace Sally Yates as acting attorney general.

Yates was fired after she publicly questioned the constitutionality of his controversial refugee and immigration ban and refused to defend it in court.

Boente was sworn in privately, the White House said.

Boente promptly ordered Justice Department lawyers to ‘‘do our sworn duty and to defend the lawful orders of our President.’’
Exactly like that. Court cases in which one side defends their actions while the other argues they were wrong. This is our system, as imperfect as it is.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1584 on: January 31, 2017, 06:59:06 AM »
Trump and his posse are trampling over the Constitution. Too much is happening too fast. Information coming from the White House is opaque, convoluted, and cannot be trusted.

Republican Members of Congress need to open their eyes, start putting their country over party, and move to impeach, otherwise it's game over for the USA as we know it.

As a liberal, I will consider us lucky if we're left standing with Pence at the helm and both the ACA and Roe vs. Wade overturned.
I think that is/was the GOP plan.  Let Trump go and go and go and then we will see them as moderates.  They have successfully moved us right on a lot and I think they are now going for what they lost (gay rights, what is left of women's rights).  No, that is not lucky.  We need to stop being defensive.  Keep fighting and don't stop.  We deserve a certain standard as first world country.  That means as a woman, I am still an autonomous human being.  It means we have basic care for our citizens.  I won't stop fighting because the other option is to accept us turning into a 3rd world country for many of citizenship and I love our country too much that.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1585 on: January 31, 2017, 07:01:17 AM »
Trump and his posse are trampling over the Constitution. Too much is happening too fast. Information coming from the White House is opaque, convoluted, and cannot be trusted.

Republican Members of Congress need to open their eyes, start putting their country over party, and move to impeach, otherwise it's game over for the USA as we know it.

As a liberal, I will consider us lucky if we're left standing with Pence at the helm and both the ACA and Roe vs. Wade overturned.
Too much is happening too fast? All this was laid out long ago in his 100 day plan. I am continually surprised by people's surprise.

AS far as unconstitutional acts: Thank goodness we have checks and balances, and provisions in place to rectify bad laws.  The previous administration got slapped by the courts all the time over their actions. They took the licking and moved on.  The game will not end because of this.
The Trump administration ignored the court order.  Ignoring the check and balance.  This is not acceptable and it is scary.  It sets the scene for them to ignore any check on their power.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1586 on: January 31, 2017, 07:02:22 AM »
Trump and his posse are trampling over the Constitution. Too much is happening too fast. Information coming from the White House is opaque, convoluted, and cannot be trusted.

Republican Members of Congress need to open their eyes, start putting their country over party, and move to impeach, otherwise it's game over for the USA as we know it.

As a liberal, I will consider us lucky if we're left standing with Pence at the helm and both the ACA and Roe vs. Wade overturned.
Too much is happening too fast? All this was laid out long ago in his 100 day plan. I am continually surprised by people's surprise.

AS far as unconstitutional acts: Thank goodness we have checks and balances, and provisions in place to rectify bad laws.  The previous administration got slapped by the courts all the time over their actions. They took the licking and moved on.  The game will not end because of this.

Checks and balances like this?

Quote
WASHINGTON — Longtime federal prosecutor Dana Boente, the US Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, was named Monday by President Trump to replace Sally Yates as acting attorney general.

Yates was fired after she publicly questioned the constitutionality of his controversial refugee and immigration ban and refused to defend it in court.

Boente was sworn in privately, the White House said.

Boente promptly ordered Justice Department lawyers to ‘‘do our sworn duty and to defend the lawful orders of our President.’’
Exactly like that. Court cases in which one side defends their actions while the other argues they were wrong. This is our system, as imperfect as it is.
Not when one side IGNORES the response of the court if they don't like the decision.  Are you somehow missing that?

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1587 on: January 31, 2017, 07:07:37 AM »
Not when one side IGNORES the response of the court if they don't like the decision.  Are you somehow missing that?
Are you suggesting that ignoring court rulings comes with no consequences? Or that Trump ignoring a ruling would automatically make the behavior legal, and therefore the people actually enforcing these laws side with Trump and not the court?
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1588 on: January 31, 2017, 07:09:25 AM »
Not when one side IGNORES the response of the court if they don't like the decision.  Are you somehow missing that?
Are you suggesting that ignoring court rulings comes with no consequences?
So far they have.  I very much hope the court will order a contempt of court but that should not be what I have to hope for.  The executive branch should not disobey a court order, it says something about them as a whole and it is not normal.  This is not a normal checks and balance situation.  Can you get that?  When they ignore one, they show how they plan to govern. 

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1589 on: January 31, 2017, 07:12:29 AM »
Not when one side IGNORES the response of the court if they don't like the decision.  Are you somehow missing that?
Are you suggesting that ignoring court rulings comes with no consequences?
So far they have.  I very much hope the court will order a contempt of court but that should not be what I have to hope for.  The executive branch should not disobey a court order, it says something about them as a whole and it is not normal.  This is not a normal checks and balance situation.  Can you get that?  When they ignore one, they show how they plan to govern.
Absolutely it shows how they plan to govern. But if a court is unwilling to stand behind its decision and punish those who unlawfully act, then you're right, there is no check to anything. I, however, have faith in the courts, as slow and imperfect though they are.

I would also hope that the people actually acting on the laws and enforcing said bans would obey the court as well. But that may be too optomistic to expect citizens to act according to the law.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1590 on: January 31, 2017, 07:24:14 AM »

Too much is happening too fast? All this was laid out long ago in his 100 day plan. I am continually surprised by people's surprise.


FYI everybody, the 100 day plan. Painful as it may be to read his words, we should look at them closer in order to move from the reactive to the proactive.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1591 on: January 31, 2017, 07:30:08 AM »
Not when one side IGNORES the response of the court if they don't like the decision.  Are you somehow missing that?
Are you suggesting that ignoring court rulings comes with no consequences?
So far they have.  I very much hope the court will order a contempt of court but that should not be what I have to hope for.  The executive branch should not disobey a court order, it says something about them as a whole and it is not normal.  This is not a normal checks and balance situation.  Can you get that?  When they ignore one, they show how they plan to govern.
Absolutely it shows how they plan to govern. But if a court is unwilling to stand behind its decision and punish those who unlawfully act, then you're right, there is no check to anything. I, however, have faith in the courts, as slow and imperfect though they are.

I would also hope that the people actually acting on the laws and enforcing said bans would obey the court as well. But that may be too optomistic to expect citizens to act according to the law.

It would be interesting to see how you'd react if you were affected by this Presidential Order.  I think civil disobedience and protest might just enter into your head as an acceptable way to state your opinion, as opposed to firing off smug opinions of how everyone should just fall in line and wait for things to slowly work themselves out.  I value your comments because they remind folks that there really are people out there that are happy to stand on the sidelines and watch others suffer, and explain why you think that this is OK.

I would like to know, from someone who supports the immigration ban, why they think this isn't helping ISIS recruit.  Trump is giving terrorists a giant juicy target to focus its energy on by saying we are keeping Muslims out.  Imagine if the Middle East suddenly kicked Christians out and instituted a travel ban - the extremesits would immediately interpret this as preparing for war.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1592 on: January 31, 2017, 07:54:28 AM »
Not when one side IGNORES the response of the court if they don't like the decision.  Are you somehow missing that?
Are you suggesting that ignoring court rulings comes with no consequences?
So far they have.  I very much hope the court will order a contempt of court but that should not be what I have to hope for.  The executive branch should not disobey a court order, it says something about them as a whole and it is not normal.  This is not a normal checks and balance situation.  Can you get that?  When they ignore one, they show how they plan to govern.
Absolutely it shows how they plan to govern. But if a court is unwilling to stand behind its decision and punish those who unlawfully act, then you're right, there is no check to anything. I, however, have faith in the courts, as slow and imperfect though they are.

I would also hope that the people actually acting on the laws and enforcing said bans would obey the court as well. But that may be too optomistic to expect citizens to act according to the law.

It would be interesting to see how you'd react if you were affected by this Presidential Order.  I think civil disobedience and protest might just enter into your head as an acceptable way to state your opinion, as opposed to firing off smug opinions of how everyone should just fall in line and wait for things to slowly work themselves out.  I value your comments because they remind folks that there really are people out there that are happy to stand on the sidelines and watch others suffer, and explain why you think that this is OK.

I would like to know, from someone who supports the immigration ban, why they think this isn't helping ISIS recruit.  Trump is giving terrorists a giant juicy target to focus its energy on by saying we are keeping Muslims out.  Imagine if the Middle East suddenly kicked Christians out and instituted a travel ban - the extremesits would immediately interpret this as preparing for war.

I've asked the same question. ISIL itself has continually stated it's the west vs Muslims. Trump basically said "yep it sure is, stay the hell out of our country." It's most certainly adding fuel to the fire. Domestic terrorism is far more likely than some random refugee and this continued rhetoric only encourages it. Trump may well be ISIL's best recruiter.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1593 on: January 31, 2017, 08:21:52 AM »
It would be interesting to see how you'd react if you were affected by this Presidential Order.  I think civil disobedience and protest might just enter into your head as an acceptable way to state your opinion, as opposed to firing off smug opinions of how everyone should just fall in line and wait for things to slowly work themselves out.  I value your comments because they remind folks that there really are people out there that are happy to stand on the sidelines and watch others suffer, and explain why you think that this is OK.

I would like to know, from someone who supports the immigration ban, why they think this isn't helping ISIS recruit.  Trump is giving terrorists a giant juicy target to focus its energy on by saying we are keeping Muslims out.  Imagine if the Middle East suddenly kicked Christians out and instituted a travel ban - the extremesits would immediately interpret this as preparing for war.
I'm not sure where you got the impression that I support a travel ban. (On a second reading, perhaps you were asking a supporter, and not me.) I don't think it's an effective means to the goals the administration claims they are trying to achieve. This particular instance was also rolled out very poorly, though that is a separate issue, imo.

If I were affected by this ban, I would be sure to follow the law. Protest is quite lawful. (Personally, I would not protest at an airport - the employees there are not the fuckers making the rules, and bothering them is neither effective nor helpful, but that's just me.)

If ISIS uses a travel ban from the other side of the world as an excuse to behead muslims of a slightly different faith or blow up markets or funerals in their own backyard, then that is a perfect example of how ineffective their methodolgy is at obtaining their goals. I would not use the fear of terrorism as the sole measure of a policy. Certainly drone striking ISIS or landing more soldiers in the region would cause the same effect; but the last administration thought these were effective techniques. Terrorism deaths are declining around the world, and have been for decades. Terrorism is not a threat to American citizens, statistically speaking, so if ISIS should recruit 50 persons or 500 persons this month, it will not increase the danger stateside. Sadly Trump will likely make the same mistakes as Obama, thinking that the USA can bomb ISIS out of existence. It's a complex issue, but more violence has not helped the region.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1594 on: January 31, 2017, 08:33:15 AM »
Not when one side IGNORES the response of the court if they don't like the decision.  Are you somehow missing that?
Are you suggesting that ignoring court rulings comes with no consequences?
So far they have.  I very much hope the court will order a contempt of court but that should not be what I have to hope for.  The executive branch should not disobey a court order, it says something about them as a whole and it is not normal.  This is not a normal checks and balance situation.  Can you get that?  When they ignore one, they show how they plan to govern.
Absolutely it shows how they plan to govern. But if a court is unwilling to stand behind its decision and punish those who unlawfully act, then you're right, there is no check to anything. I, however, have faith in the courts, as slow and imperfect though they are.

I would also hope that the people actually acting on the laws and enforcing said bans would obey the court as well. But that may be too optomistic to expect citizens to act according to the law.

How exactly can the courts punish the President? If the courts rule that an action by the executive is unconstitutional, and the executive ignores the court ruling, then it doesn't really serve as a check unless others act. The legislature could in theory impeach, but does anyone see that happening soon? And what happens when impeachment is ignored, combined with private security supplementing secret service protection and high levels of law enforcement and military support for the President?

Our democracy is quite fragile when you have leadership that doesn't respect democratic norms or the rule of law. What happens when there's much more draconian measures introduced after an actual terrorist attack (even a small one)? We'll be told that the courts must be ignored because of national security. What do we do then?

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1595 on: January 31, 2017, 08:48:22 AM »
It would be interesting to see how you'd react if you were affected by this Presidential Order.  I think civil disobedience and protest might just enter into your head as an acceptable way to state your opinion, as opposed to firing off smug opinions of how everyone should just fall in line and wait for things to slowly work themselves out.  I value your comments because they remind folks that there really are people out there that are happy to stand on the sidelines and watch others suffer, and explain why you think that this is OK.

I would like to know, from someone who supports the immigration ban, why they think this isn't helping ISIS recruit.  Trump is giving terrorists a giant juicy target to focus its energy on by saying we are keeping Muslims out.  Imagine if the Middle East suddenly kicked Christians out and instituted a travel ban - the extremesits would immediately interpret this as preparing for war.
I'm not sure where you got the impression that I support a travel ban. (On a second reading, perhaps you were asking a supporter, and not me.) I don't think it's an effective means to the goals the administration claims they are trying to achieve. This particular instance was also rolled out very poorly, though that is a separate issue, imo.

If I were affected by this ban, I would be sure to follow the law. Protest is quite lawful. (Personally, I would not protest at an airport - the employees there are not the fuckers making the rules, and bothering them is neither effective nor helpful, but that's just me.)

If ISIS uses a travel ban from the other side of the world as an excuse to behead muslims of a slightly different faith or blow up markets or funerals in their own backyard, then that is a perfect example of how ineffective their methodolgy is at obtaining their goals.

I would disagree. The mere fact that we elected a President who supported a Muslim ban from the get go actually shows how affective their strategies are. Killing innocent people is just the means to a bigger purpose.

Quote
Certainly drone striking ISIS or landing more soldiers in the region would cause the same effect; but the last administration thought these were effective techniques.

I agree to a point. Drone strikes certainly encourage ISIL sympathizers, but does not have the same affect as a ban on all Muslims. We had no issues with refugees before. But now we are essentially condemning them to be tortured, raped and murdered because of their faith. 

Quote
Terrorism deaths are declining around the world, and have been for decades.


That's not true at all. Note the chart showing terrorism related deaths doubled between 2013 and 2014.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/global-terrorism-declined-last-year-but-not-in-the-west/


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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1596 on: January 31, 2017, 09:06:32 AM »
How exactly can the courts punish the President? If the courts rule that an action by the executive is unconstitutional, and the executive ignores the court ruling, then it doesn't really serve as a check unless others act. The legislature could in theory impeach, but does anyone see that happening soon? And what happens when impeachment is ignored, combined with private security supplementing secret service protection and high levels of law enforcement and military support for the President?

Our democracy is quite fragile when you have leadership that doesn't respect democratic norms or the rule of law. What happens when there's much more draconian measures introduced after an actual terrorist attack (even a small one)? We'll be told that the courts must be ignored because of national security. What do we do then?
Why would the court punish the president for unlawful laws? That doesn't happen, and shouldn't happen.  The court is not there to 'punish' lawmakers - it is there to check their power. The court would act by striking down the law. If TSA agents or DHS employees or whomever continue to act under a law that was struck down, they would need to be sued in the court by the people with standing. If they continue to ignore the court, the individual actors who are causing harm would need to be punished, but not the people who legally passed the law that was legally struck down.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1597 on: January 31, 2017, 09:13:40 AM »
I agree to a point. Drone strikes certainly encourage ISIL sympathizers, but does not have the same affect as a ban on all Muslims. We had no issues with refugees before. But now we are essentially condemning them to be tortured, raped and murdered because of their faith. 

Quote
Terrorism deaths are declining around the world, and have been for decades.


That's not true at all. Note the chart showing terrorism related deaths doubled between 2013 and 2014.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/global-terrorism-declined-last-year-but-not-in-the-west/
Thanks for the chart. My info was out of date - there has been a big spike in deaths over the last decade, completely reversing the trend that had been occurring since the 70's.

But to be fair, the USA has been condemning these people to this fate for years. There has always been a 'cap' on the number of refugees from these areas allowed into the USA; everyone after the cap was condemned to the fate, plus the risk of civilian murder by drone or airstrike. The USA is an imperfect place, for sure.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1598 on: January 31, 2017, 09:16:45 AM »
How exactly can the courts punish the President? If the courts rule that an action by the executive is unconstitutional, and the executive ignores the court ruling, then it doesn't really serve as a check unless others act. The legislature could in theory impeach, but does anyone see that happening soon? And what happens when impeachment is ignored, combined with private security supplementing secret service protection and high levels of law enforcement and military support for the President?

Our democracy is quite fragile when you have leadership that doesn't respect democratic norms or the rule of law. What happens when there's much more draconian measures introduced after an actual terrorist attack (even a small one)? We'll be told that the courts must be ignored because of national security. What do we do then?
Why would the court punish the president for unlawful laws? That doesn't happen, and shouldn't happen.  The court is not there to 'punish' lawmakers - it is there to check their power. The court would act by striking down the law. If TSA agents or DHS employees or whomever continue to act under a law that was struck down, they would need to be sued in the court by the people with standing. If they continue to ignore the court, the individual actors who are causing harm would need to be punished, but not the people who legally passed the law that was legally struck down.

I think the essence of the question is that the courts still rely on the executive branch to actually do a lot of the work. In an extreme example, if the court found a high-ranking official in contempt, or a grand jury handed down a criminal indictment, and the executive branch ignored the indictment, what then? Are U.S. Marshals going to get into a shootout with Secret Service or DHS cops? Would they even attempt to carry out the court's orders, since they're under the Attorney General?
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1599 on: January 31, 2017, 09:26:48 AM »
I agree to a point. Drone strikes certainly encourage ISIL sympathizers, but does not have the same affect as a ban on all Muslims. We had no issues with refugees before. But now we are essentially condemning them to be tortured, raped and murdered because of their faith. 

Quote
Terrorism deaths are declining around the world, and have been for decades.


That's not true at all. Note the chart showing terrorism related deaths doubled between 2013 and 2014.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/global-terrorism-declined-last-year-but-not-in-the-west/
Thanks for the chart. My info was out of date - there has been a big spike in deaths over the last decade, completely reversing the trend that had been occurring since the 70's.

But to be fair, the USA has been condemning these people to this fate for years. There has always been a 'cap' on the number of refugees from these areas allowed into the USA; everyone after the cap was condemned to the fate, plus the risk of civilian murder by drone or airstrike. The USA is an imperfect place, for sure.

The Obama admin. was pushing to increase that cap to 100,000 in 2016 (not sure if it ever happened). Unfortunately the US is quite a ways away and not necessarily the most sought after place for refugees. Certainly less desirable now. I know they were grappling with how to keep raising the cap while keeping comprehensive background checks in place. I am all for that as opposed to "just stay the hell away."