Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 196246 times)

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1550 on: January 29, 2017, 04:58:31 PM »
I'm truly terrified, but I have nowhere I think my husband and I can go. We don't exactly have STEM jobs so moving to Canada seems like a dream.

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Merlion

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1551 on: January 29, 2017, 11:41:55 PM »
I'm truly terrified, but I have nowhere I think my husband and I can go. We don't exactly have STEM jobs so moving to Canada seems like a dream.

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Not sure of your backgrounds and ages, but if you haven't done so do check out the immigration points calculators for countries like Canada.

The order from this weekend has made 2 things clear to me: 1. Things can change suddenly overnight on the whim of one person, even when you're out of the country on vacation - destroying your life. 2. Even green card holders are not safe. My wife is a green card holder from China. She's not impacted by by this order now, but who knows what could happen (Say, conflict in South China Sea leading to a similar ban and maybe registry for Chinese citizens? Far-fetched, I would hope, but not unimaginable like it had been before 46% of American voters decided Trump was what we needed).

We are seriously talking about beginning the immigration process to Canada even though it would really mess up our finances since job opportunities for both of us are much better in NYC, where we are now. A job hunt could be difficult, but ultimately we'd be fine, and our total points for immigration even without a job offer should be around the minimum required for Canada.

When we moved back to the US last year, we thought it would be a semi-permanent move. Now? The writing looks to be on the wall, and we don't want to still be here when stuff really hits the fan...
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 07:34:49 AM by Merlion »

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1552 on: January 30, 2017, 05:49:29 AM »
Speaking of stuff hitting the fan, this piece in Medium is worth a read.

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.iiwh1udux
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1553 on: January 30, 2017, 07:54:35 AM »
I'm truly terrified, but I have nowhere I think my husband and I can go. We don't exactly have STEM jobs so moving to Canada seems like a dream.

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Not sure of your backgrounds and ages, but if you haven't done so do check out the immigration points calculators for countries like Canada.

Add to this - in the face of these new restrictions by DJT's executive order, Canada has upped its affirmation of taking in refugees.  From PM Trudeau:To those fleeing persecution, terror & war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength #WelcomeToCanada

If you have reason to believe you will be persecuted in the US you might want to contact CIC - STEM fields or not.
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oldtoyota

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1554 on: January 30, 2017, 07:59:54 AM »
Will Canada take American refugees?

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1555 on: January 30, 2017, 08:03:44 AM »
Another facet of what is so alarming about Trump is not so much that he is crashing through all of the delicate foreign relations that previous administrations have tended to over decades, bringing us to Pax Americana and some of the best times this Superpower has ever known, but that he has insulated himself inside of his bubble.  He has to be right and now only listens to the people that agree with his world view.

People like Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway:

Quote
Appearing on "Squawk Box," Conway said President Donald Trump needs to tweet to get the real information out. "This total misinformation and what I would say information 'underload' about the facts and figures ... are astonishing."

Trump tweeted this morning:

"Only 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning. Big problems at airports were caused by Delta computer outage,.....

"protesters and the tears of Senator Schumer. Secretary Kelly said that all is going well with very few problems. MAKE AMERICA SAFE AGAIN!

"There is nothing nice about searching for terrorists before they can enter our country. This was a big part of my campaign. Study the world!

"If the ban were announced with a one week notice, the "bad" would rush into our country during that week. A lot of bad "dudes" out there!"

And let's not overlook Trump kicking opposing, experienced viewpoints out of his National Security Coucil so that Steve Bannon can whisper in Trump's ear:
Quote
It started with the doom-hued inauguration homily to “American carnage” in United States cities co-written by Mr. Bannon, followed a few days later by his “shut up” message to the news media. The week culminated with a blizzard of executive orders, mostly hatched by Mr. Bannon’s team and the White House policy adviser, Stephen Miller, aimed at disorienting the “enemy,” fulfilling campaign promises and distracting attention from Mr. Trump’s less than flawless debut.

But the defining moment for Mr. Bannon came Saturday night in the form of an executive order giving the rumpled right-wing agitator a full seat on the “principals committee” of the National Security Council — while downgrading the roles of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the director of national intelligence, who will now attend only when the council is considering issues in their direct areas of responsibilities. It is a startling elevation of a political adviser, to a status alongside the secretaries of state and defense, and over the president’s top military and intelligence advisers.

Fortunately Jared Kushner, Trump's son-on-law, is also in there to help tend to the interests of the Trump empire. 

I wonder if Trump realizes that he is already lowering the quality of life for all Americans (some more than others)?  Nah, he seems so detached from reality that all it takes is a handfull of people telling him he is doing a good job and that America will eventually thrive once he goes 'just a little further' and creates 'just a little more pain'....
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nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1556 on: January 30, 2017, 08:09:35 AM »
Will Canada take American refugees?
Like many countries, Canada makes distinctions between refugees and 'ordinary' immigrants. If you fear persecution within your own country, you can apply for refugee status.  Otherwise, Canada has a points system for evaluating potential immigrants.  Having an in-demand job, being young, and having money all help your score.  Having a job offer (or acceptance letter from a Canadian university) is one of the best ways of gaining a temporary permit.
If you are older, deeply in debt and don't have a college education you will find it far harder.
Once you have a temporary permit (be in a student permit or temporary work permit) you can begin the process of applying for permanent residency. Once you have permanent residency you can apply for full citizenship.
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madgeylou

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1559 on: January 30, 2017, 08:13:27 AM »


Freedom2016

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1561 on: January 30, 2017, 08:24:17 AM »
Read this. Good summation.


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.tml9ikepu

Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?

What can any of us do except stand by and watch this unfold? It really feels like protests, phone calls, petitions, donations to ACLU, etc. aren't going to be enough.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1562 on: January 30, 2017, 08:28:18 AM »
Read this. Good summation.


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.tml9ikepu

Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?

What can any of us do except stand by and watch this unfold? It really feels like protests, phone calls, petitions, donations to ACLU, etc. aren't going to be enough.

Act. You have to act. And you have to get your friends and family to act, as well. Work on your circle of influence. Do not back down. Don't get complacent. Don't let those episodes of (insert binge-watched show) call to you and keep you on the couch instead of going to a rally.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Freedom2016

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1563 on: January 30, 2017, 08:44:58 AM »
Read this. Good summation.


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.tml9ikepu

Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?

What can any of us do except stand by and watch this unfold? It really feels like protests, phone calls, petitions, donations to ACLU, etc. aren't going to be enough.

Act. You have to act. And you have to get your friends and family to act, as well. Work on your circle of influence. Do not back down. Don't get complacent. Don't let those episodes of (insert binge-watched show) call to you and keep you on the couch instead of going to a rally.

I am doing those things--and will keep at it-- but it feels like it won't be enough. :(

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1564 on: January 30, 2017, 08:45:33 AM »
Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?

What can any of us do except stand by and watch this unfold? It really feels like protests, phone calls, petitions, donations to ACLU, etc. aren't going to be enough.

My SO and I have been talking about this extensively.  Executive actions aside, changes aren't going to be immediate. The Framers made sure that enactment of new laws took time (particualrly through the Senate) exactly because they didn't want a single President (and by procedurals the majority party) to have unfettered rule.

One thing I think is very important is to keep contacting your Congressional representatives.  If they are GOP even better. The best immediate resistance to the executive branch is the legislature. If those folks feel their re-election is in danger in 22 months they'll (eventually) find their balls and start standing up.

If your representative isn't actively speaking out, give money to the opposing candidate(s). If he/she does speak out, support them (they are going to need it)

This goes for your state governor too. State governors and state governments are responsible for handling voter registration and voting procedures.

Stay active, stay outraged. One of the factors that got us here is that too few people payed any attention, and too few people actually voted. This may be the hardest thing to do for the American public, and at the heart of DJT's strategy is most likely the bet that the country won't be able to stay tuned for very long.

Participate in voter registration drives NOW. DJT (and to a lesser extent the GOP) is already making noise about tightening up voter laws.
<60% of voting-age citizens turned out in November, and the number of registered voters has been in decline for decades. But most accounts if >60% of eligible voters turned out on election day this result would not have happened.

In two years DJT's powers will either be curtailed or expanded.  In four years we'll either have a new president or a re-affirmation of everything he has done and will do between then and now.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 08:48:21 AM by nereo »
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1565 on: January 30, 2017, 08:48:44 AM »
Read this. Good summation.


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.tml9ikepu

Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?

What can any of us do except stand by and watch this unfold? It really feels like protests, phone calls, petitions, donations to ACLU, etc. aren't going to be enough.

Act. You have to act. And you have to get your friends and family to act, as well. Work on your circle of influence. Do not back down. Don't get complacent. Don't let those episodes of (insert binge-watched show) call to you and keep you on the couch instead of going to a rally.

The only thing that will stop Trump is the law, by which I mean administrative, civil and criminal cases brought before the courts to enforce the rule of law and the upholding of the constitution.  The constitution itself is not enough, it needs to be enforced by people bringing cases before the courts and the judges upholding them.

Of course, that only works for what Trump is doing inside the USA.  Outside it, Putin is already on the move in the Ukraine and 10 people are dead - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38794679

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radram

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1566 on: January 30, 2017, 09:35:59 AM »

Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?


How about this?

If our country can allow itself to be turned into something it does not want to be, then maybe we are not as great as everybody thinks. There will be many changes. Many of them I will disagree with. I believe changes that "the people" disagree with will not stand once subjected to our system of checks and balances. Our nation is so much stronger than 1 man that tries to divide succeeds in dividing capitalizes on what divide us. (I just decided to edit immediately)

I am firmly against the Muslim ban in any form. I believe it can do nothing other than enrage a fringe group and make them stronger, as well as bring the US down a few pegs in the international community. Quite frankly, we could use that anyway (the later, not the former).

Does that make you feel any better? Honestly, no sarcasm intended.

Freedom2016

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1567 on: January 30, 2017, 10:48:39 AM »
I'm in a fairly reliably liberal state so it feels a bit like protesting and contacting my reps is shouting in the wind. (Yes, I know it's good to call reps anyway, at least to thank them.) Lately I've been wondering if we should move back to the midwest, where I grew up, to feel like I have a chance to break up the more extreme "red" ideologies there. But my stomach turns at the thought; I don't actually WANT to, and I doubt DH would go for it.

Radram thanks for trying but that doesn't exactly warm the cockles of my heart. :\ For awhile I've felt that the US isn't as "great" as everybody thinks, going strictly by numbers like maternal health, life expectancy, gini coefficient, education metrics, etc.

former player, I have a friend who used to work for DHS who on Sunday reactivated his license to practice law in light of the EO. I do believe the law is what we have to rely on...which makes me wish I was a lawyer. And makes me terribly concerned that the white house page has removed links and information about the Judicial Branch. It's almost as though they (Bannon) know that the law is the thing that could bring them down, and they don't want to remind people about its existence. Barf.
 


seattlecyclone

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1568 on: January 30, 2017, 12:12:15 PM »
Now I know we live in bizzaro-world...
The Koch Bros are the organized resistance against Trump and his policies.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/koch-network-poised-for-new-role--as-the-conservative-resistance-to-trump/2017/01/30/7750ef02-e67c-11e6-bf6f-301b6b443624_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_kochnetwork-635a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a93f2401180e

The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

I don't find this all that surprising, honestly. The Kochs seem to really, truly believe in libertarianism. Fascism is basically the opposite.
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nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1569 on: January 30, 2017, 12:50:15 PM »
Now I know we live in bizzaro-world...
The Koch Bros are the organized resistance against Trump and his policies.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/koch-network-poised-for-new-role--as-the-conservative-resistance-to-trump/2017/01/30/7750ef02-e67c-11e6-bf6f-301b6b443624_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_kochnetwork-635a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a93f2401180e

The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

I don't find this all that surprising, honestly. The Kochs seem to really, truly believe in libertarianism. Fascism is basically the opposite.

In a way I'm not surprised that the Kochs have maintained their positions. Argue for or against it, they've been very steadfast to their ideals for the last couple decades.

Its more surprising to me that so many GOPers are finding themselves on the wrong end of that large stick. The Kochs committment to increase spending on 2018 races to $350-400MM adds a new dimension. Presumably they will support conservative candidates who challenge those who've dropped in line with the Trumpian world view of tarrifs, trade-wars and military posturing, but will they support a moderate democrat over a Trumpian?
I'm certain it will boil down to a their assessment of who the 'better' choice is for each individual race.  In that regard they are extremely pragmatic.
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MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1570 on: January 30, 2017, 01:37:31 PM »

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1571 on: January 30, 2017, 01:45:55 PM »
Trump is smashing records and getting shit done!!

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ouch...

So is it weird that a Republican president is the one that makes me really feel like I may actually need to buy a rifle to protect my neighbors from an overly opressive government? I've never felt so tinfoily before, and am generally pretty positive, but if relocation camps are next on the list...
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bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1572 on: January 30, 2017, 01:51:48 PM »
Trump is smashing records and getting shit done!!

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ouch...

So is it weird that a Republican president is the one that makes me really feel like I may actually need to buy a rifle to protect my neighbors from an overly opressive government? I've never felt so tinfoily before, and am generally pretty positive, but if relocation camps are next on the list...

Where is that line between being tinfoily and truly being scared of an oppressive government?

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1573 on: January 30, 2017, 01:59:23 PM »
Trump is smashing records and getting shit done!!

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ouch...

So is it weird that a Republican president is the one that makes me really feel like I may actually need to buy a rifle to protect my neighbors from an overly opressive government? I've never felt so tinfoily before, and am generally pretty positive, but if relocation camps are next on the list...

Where is that line between being tinfoily and truly being scared of an oppressive government?
Tinfoily - you lock your doors, set up VPNs, take your name off your mailbox and never use grocery-store discount cards

Truly scared - stockpile bullets, build a bunker and learn how to filter your own pee.
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acroy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1574 on: January 30, 2017, 02:12:23 PM »
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345
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OurTown

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1575 on: January 30, 2017, 02:22:26 PM »
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1576 on: January 30, 2017, 02:56:53 PM »
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Other side of the pond here, but the last time dear neighbour Russia got fascist friends, it didn't turn out so good for us. I've been considering getting a hunting license for several years, maybe it is time to do that now. And hide a couple of radios around. 
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t5inside

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1577 on: January 30, 2017, 03:03:01 PM »
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

Cranberries

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1578 on: January 30, 2017, 03:04:52 PM »

I am doing those things--and will keep at it-- but it feels like it won't be enough. :(

I am finding that directly engaging is helping a lot with the despair. I just spent most of the weekend at SFO. One thing they never tell you is that activism can be really fun. The connection with others is awesome, the chants and music can sweep you along, the signs and direct actions are often hilarious. It's really, really hard for me to stay inspired and hopeful when I'm trying for the sixth time that week to get through to my senators, but much easier to do so when I am surrounded by three thousand people bouncing to a brass band, and sharing food and struggles and joys with all of the people around me.

BrightFIRE

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1579 on: January 30, 2017, 03:25:36 PM »
before 46% of American voters decided Trump was what we needed

I feel the need to correct this, mostly because it makes me feel better to know it's a smaller percentage of the country who supports hateful bigots. 27.2% of eligible voters voted for Trump. 44.37% of the population didn't even vote. He doesn't remotely have the support of "the people".

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1580 on: January 30, 2017, 03:35:54 PM »
This is just the 'establish dominance' phase.    Once he's demonstrated that he's in charge, purged the ranks of the disloyal and finished appointing his supporters you'll start to see real change!

Makes me glad you have a strong constitution down there.

MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1581 on: January 30, 2017, 03:39:35 PM »
Trump is smashing records and getting shit done!!

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ouch...

So is it weird that a Republican president is the one that makes me really feel like I may actually need to buy a rifle to protect my neighbors from an overly opressive government? I've never felt so tinfoily before, and am generally pretty positive, but if relocation camps are next on the list...

Would it at all be surprising? I mean his Muslim ban is more likely to encourage even more home grown terrorism. He just might use the next domestic terror attack to enforce interment camps or whatever. Well at least he left countries with personal business interest off the list.


RangerOne

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1582 on: January 30, 2017, 03:55:41 PM »
While removing many "federal" government business regulations would help it make it easier for some business to boost profits, blanket stating that you are going to cut X% of "federal regulations", not stating whether you mean existing or new yet to be implemented ones is an unsupportable statement.

I understand that there is truth behind the thought process that government is just a machine that pumps out shit laws and regulations made to bloat the governments size. But its a sentiment that is often taken to far and used as an excuse to give a conservative administration popular license to take a sledge hammer to good laws and regulations to help their corporate donors.

Its just the flip side of the coin of a Democratic administration allowing shitty regulations to persist or be created to help their corporate donors... So forgive me if I don't get excited when an administration makes vague statements about making new regulations or shit canning X% of existing ones.

The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have. Within 1 week Donald Trump is on course make Obama's approach seem tame. Its seems like his governing approach is targeting make everything an executive order, undermine the media's response, and then probably find a way to undermine the judicial branches response to bad orders. Definitely sounds democratic to me...

RangerOne

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1583 on: January 30, 2017, 03:59:25 PM »
This is just the 'establish dominance' phase.    Once he's demonstrated that he's in charge, purged the ranks of the disloyal and finished appointing his supporters you'll start to see real change!

Makes me glad you have a strong constitution down there.

Why would he ever leave the establish dominance phase? Trump has an endless desire to create controversy and shit on his public opponents. He is going to keep signing executive orders till he is shitting blood.

People said he would calm down after he won. Every-time he has progressed he has just doubled down and moved 10 times faster. He is trying to full fill all his promises like a bat out of hell regardless of consequences, legality or planning.

RangerOne

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1584 on: January 30, 2017, 04:02:52 PM »
Trump is smashing records and getting shit done!!

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ouch...

So is it weird that a Republican president is the one that makes me really feel like I may actually need to buy a rifle to protect my neighbors from an overly opressive government? I've never felt so tinfoily before, and am generally pretty positive, but if relocation camps are next on the list...

Would it at all be surprising? I mean his Muslim ban is more likely to encourage even more home grown terrorism. He just might use the next domestic terror attack to enforce interment camps or whatever. Well at least he left countries with personal business interest off the list.

It would be the smart thing to do. If a terrorists goal is to take our freedoms nothing would be easier than to push Trump over the edge and given him the popular support to actively attack Muslims. Right now he only has support of most of his base but those people are only scared because of fake news.

If we had another 9/11 type attack then real fear we overtake his entire base and some of those who are against him now. The sad part is such and attack would be 100% confirmation that his approach is the wrong one.

DoubleDown

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1585 on: January 30, 2017, 04:04:40 PM »
I take some solace that in just one week, the sheer magnitude of lunacy and demonstrated hostility towards facts, may end up hastening a Trump impeachment. Congressional Republicans are going to give this nut-job all kinds of latitude since he will allow them to pass their agenda and appoint Supreme Court justices that undo all the things they hate like gay marriage, Roe v. Wade, Obamacare, etc. But they may reach a limit pretty quickly if the craziness continues on this scale on a weekly basis. Not to mention that no one should be shocked if someone digs up some stuff on Trump that truly threatens his presidency. Clinton was impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, it doesn't take that much. They know that a "President Pence" would be just as agreeable to their agenda, but without the lunacy. Liberals won't like that agenda any better, but at least Pence would likely follow the rule of law and ditch the craziness and opposition to reality/facts.
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JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1586 on: January 30, 2017, 04:04:43 PM »
While removing many "federal" government business regulations would help it make it easier for some business to boost profits, blanket stating that you are going to cut X% of "federal regulations", not stating whether you mean existing or new yet to be implemented ones is an unsupportable statement.

I understand that there is truth behind the thought process that government is just a machine that pumps out shit laws and regulations made to bloat the governments size. But its a sentiment that is often taken to far and used as an excuse to give a conservative administration popular license to take a sledge hammer to good laws and regulations to help their corporate donors.

Its just the flip side of the coin of a Democratic administration allowing shitty regulations to persist or be created to help their corporate donors... So forgive me if I don't get excited when an administration makes vague statements about making new regulations or shit canning X% of existing ones.

The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have. Within 1 week Donald Trump is on course make Obama's approach seem tame. Its seems like his governing approach is targeting make everything an executive order, undermine the media's response, and then probably find a way to undermine the judicial branches response to bad orders. Definitely sounds democratic to me...

Compared to who?

Obama averaged 34.6 executive orders per year, which puts him at 23rd of all presidents -- the fewest orders per year of any president since Grover Cleveland in the 1880's.

Gondolin

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1587 on: January 30, 2017, 04:08:54 PM »
Quote
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

What the hell for? Is there some scenario where you imagine yourself revolting in armed militias? Or just dying in shootout with the Gestapo?

Please remember all this 5-10 years from now when there's another spasm of anger over lax gun laws and everyone is shrieking about how dumb 2nd amendment militiamen are.
"There cannot be two skies"

RangerOne

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1588 on: January 30, 2017, 04:10:41 PM »
While removing many "federal" government business regulations would help it make it easier for some business to boost profits, blanket stating that you are going to cut X% of "federal regulations", not stating whether you mean existing or new yet to be implemented ones is an unsupportable statement.

I understand that there is truth behind the thought process that government is just a machine that pumps out shit laws and regulations made to bloat the governments size. But its a sentiment that is often taken to far and used as an excuse to give a conservative administration popular license to take a sledge hammer to good laws and regulations to help their corporate donors.

Its just the flip side of the coin of a Democratic administration allowing shitty regulations to persist or be created to help their corporate donors... So forgive me if I don't get excited when an administration makes vague statements about making new regulations or shit canning X% of existing ones.

The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have. Within 1 week Donald Trump is on course make Obama's approach seem tame. Its seems like his governing approach is targeting make everything an executive order, undermine the media's response, and then probably find a way to undermine the judicial branches response to bad orders. Definitely sounds democratic to me...

Compared to who?

Obama averaged 34.6 executive orders per year, which puts him at 23rd of all presidents -- the fewest orders per year of any president since Grover Cleveland in the 1880's.

From conservatives and radio personalities... Not saying the criticism is historically valid. Though I admit I hadn't found time to verify how off base those statements were or are.

Gondolin

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1589 on: January 30, 2017, 04:11:08 PM »
Quote
The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have.

Compared to who?

'Alternative' news sources mostly. I hear Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya too!
"There cannot be two skies"

JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1590 on: January 30, 2017, 04:12:09 PM »
While removing many "federal" government business regulations would help it make it easier for some business to boost profits, blanket stating that you are going to cut X% of "federal regulations", not stating whether you mean existing or new yet to be implemented ones is an unsupportable statement.

I understand that there is truth behind the thought process that government is just a machine that pumps out shit laws and regulations made to bloat the governments size. But its a sentiment that is often taken to far and used as an excuse to give a conservative administration popular license to take a sledge hammer to good laws and regulations to help their corporate donors.

Its just the flip side of the coin of a Democratic administration allowing shitty regulations to persist or be created to help their corporate donors... So forgive me if I don't get excited when an administration makes vague statements about making new regulations or shit canning X% of existing ones.

The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have. Within 1 week Donald Trump is on course make Obama's approach seem tame. Its seems like his governing approach is targeting make everything an executive order, undermine the media's response, and then probably find a way to undermine the judicial branches response to bad orders. Definitely sounds democratic to me...

Compared to who?

Obama averaged 34.6 executive orders per year, which puts him at 23rd of all presidents -- the fewest orders per year of any president since Grover Cleveland in the 1880's.

From conservatives and radio personalities... Not saying the criticism is historically valid. Though I admit I hadn't found time to verify how off base those statements were or are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders

The answer is "very."

Quote
The major complaint about the Obama administration was that he use too many executive orders and was fucking up the normal balance of what influence the executive branch is meant to have.

Compared to who?

'Alternative' news sources mostly. I hear Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya too!

Ha. Pretty much!

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1591 on: January 30, 2017, 04:18:13 PM »
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!
Oooh! Do let us know what you're looking at.  Either here or in the "Firearms in the home" thread.
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Gin1984

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1592 on: January 30, 2017, 04:34:11 PM »
I take some solace that in just one week, the sheer magnitude of lunacy and demonstrated hostility towards facts, may end up hastening a Trump impeachment. Congressional Republicans are going to give this nut-job all kinds of latitude since he will allow them to pass their agenda and appoint Supreme Court justices that undo all the things they hate like gay marriage, Roe v. Wade, Obamacare, etc. But they may reach a limit pretty quickly if the craziness continues on this scale on a weekly basis. Not to mention that no one should be shocked if someone digs up some stuff on Trump that truly threatens his presidency. Clinton was impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, it doesn't take that much. They know that a "President Pence" would be just as agreeable to their agenda, but without the lunacy. Liberals won't like that agenda any better, but at least Pence would likely follow the rule of law and ditch the craziness and opposition to reality/facts.
That is not true.  The GOP has been anti-fact and science for decades.  They spent over twenty years lying about the Clintons and other issues.  Trump is their logical conclusion.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1593 on: January 30, 2017, 04:40:03 PM »
Quote
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

What the hell for? Is there some scenario where you imagine yourself revolting in armed militias? Or just dying in shootout with the Gestapo?

Please remember all this 5-10 years from now when there's another spasm of anger over lax gun laws and everyone is shrieking about how dumb 2nd amendment militiamen are.

The gun owners on the left I've talked to aren't imagining defending themselves against the military. They are imagining defending themselves from angry Trump supporters with guns. (Before the election, it was that they were afraid that a Clinton victory would bring out crazed anti-Clinton people who would descend in the streets and go "liberal hunting." Now, it's that they feel emboldened and empowered by the idea that a Trump presidency basically encourages violence against people who don't agree with it. Which... isn't that far off.)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 04:45:00 PM by Kris »
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Gin1984

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1594 on: January 30, 2017, 04:42:24 PM »
Quote
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

What the hell for? Is there some scenario where you imagine yourself revolting in armed militias? Or just dying in shootout with the Gestapo?

Please remember all this 5-10 years from now when there's another spasm of anger over lax gun laws and everyone is shrieking about how dumb 2nd amendment militiamen are.
No, it because people are afraid of being attacked by other citizens and not getting help from the police.

DoubleDown

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1595 on: January 30, 2017, 04:52:58 PM »
I take some solace that in just one week, the sheer magnitude of lunacy and demonstrated hostility towards facts, may end up hastening a Trump impeachment. Congressional Republicans are going to give this nut-job all kinds of latitude since he will allow them to pass their agenda and appoint Supreme Court justices that undo all the things they hate like gay marriage, Roe v. Wade, Obamacare, etc. But they may reach a limit pretty quickly if the craziness continues on this scale on a weekly basis. Not to mention that no one should be shocked if someone digs up some stuff on Trump that truly threatens his presidency. Clinton was impeached for lying about getting a blowjob, it doesn't take that much. They know that a "President Pence" would be just as agreeable to their agenda, but without the lunacy. Liberals won't like that agenda any better, but at least Pence would likely follow the rule of law and ditch the craziness and opposition to reality/facts.
That is not true.  The GOP has been anti-fact and science for decades.  They spent over twenty years lying about the Clintons and other issues.  Trump is their logical conclusion.

I get what you're saying, but the magnitudes of lying aren't even close. We're talking mountain vs. molehill. Sure, plenty of politicians bend truth or interpret facts differently, choose to disbelieve scientific theories, or even sometimes outright lie when expedient. But there's no comparison between "regular" politician lies and the batshit craziness of Trump who spews out lies and wild conspiracy theories by the day that are demonstrably false (like from pictures at an inauguration). That's in a whole other league than objecting to climate science, IMO.
"Not all quotes on the internet are accurate" -- Abraham Lincoln

t5inside

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1596 on: January 30, 2017, 04:58:24 PM »
Quote
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.

Yep same here. I already picked out what I'm ordering and just need to call the local FFL. I didn't expect MMM to be my reminder!

What the hell for? Is there some scenario where you imagine yourself revolting in armed militias? Or just dying in shootout with the Gestapo?

Please remember all this 5-10 years from now when there's another spasm of anger over lax gun laws and everyone is shrieking about how dumb 2nd amendment militiamen are.
No, it because people are afraid of being attacked by other citizens and not getting help from the police.

Exactly. No need for personal attacks... I spent 6 years in the Air Force and didn't vote for this guy, I'm not a "militiaman" by any stretch, rather a concerned citizen who this administration has already shown open hostility towards. God forbid we ever have a need to use them, but prices are low after the Clinton loss (buy low sell high!) and it's better to have one and not need it than the opposite.

Do some research on Bannon and Flynn, they're openly calling for a "bloody war" against Islam (Bannon wants a "Christian militia", his own words) and are the closest advisors to this president to whom the ends justify the means. I have little doubt our institutions and people are strong enough that we will not let things reach that point, but at the same time I'm not going to be naive.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 08:22:27 AM by t5inside »

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1597 on: January 30, 2017, 05:13:27 PM »
A war would help to cement Trump's authority and provide more justification for increased homeland security and reduced freedoms for those who aren't members of the club.   It doesn't even have to be victorious, just drag on to justify whatever actions he wants to take.

I can see that.

Poundwise

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1598 on: January 30, 2017, 09:41:45 PM »
What happens if most of the civil servant and Cabinet positions go unfilled? Can Trump  continue to function as he has, emitting executive orders? Are there any rules that he has to use the Secret Service, CIA, etc? Can he simply just hire his own private army and information service, and what regulations would they be subject to?


teen persuasion

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1599 on: January 30, 2017, 09:44:38 PM »
Local news was discussing how things are tightening up at the bridges (US - Canada border).  Things like increased scrutiny coming AND going, slower crossing times, biometric controls...  we like cross-border traffic here, it's an important part of the economy.  Slow things down, and people just won't choose to visit because it's too inconvenient.

Then there's all the students and faculty at local colleges and universities affected by the travel ban.  DS4's classes just resumed today, so not everyone may have made it back in time - if you had a semester break of more than 5 weeks, wouldn't you travel home for the holidays? Especially when you are expected to leave the dorms, and meal service doesn't resume until 1/29.  If home is too far away, might you take the opportunity to travel to Canada between semesters?  The news mentioned the economic effect here - universities encourage foreign students, since they pay up to 3.3 times what locals pay.  Scare them away, and the schools are underfunded.