Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 131023 times)

marty998

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1400 on: January 25, 2017, 01:53:17 AM »
If the democrats were smart and/or had any balls they would simply accuse Trump of something every other day on the house or senate floor (or some other way that gets good news coverage) that gets him mad like:
1) he's a sexual predator
2) he got less votes than Clinton
3) he has small hands, or penis, fuckit
4) say how he had sexual relations with putin
5) etc.

It doesn't have to be true, just say it. Then he'll spend four years (or less) just being mad and fighting with folks via twitter/press conferences and won't do much.
Trump spent years tweeting about Obama being born in Kenya.

We only have "a Trump spokesperson"'s word that Trump has sold his stakes in Energy Transfer Partners (the company overseeing construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline).  So why not spend the next four years demanding Trump prove that he has no financial interest in any of the companies involved in the pipeline?

Still haven't seen Trump's birth certificate.

Just saying.

Lagom

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1401 on: January 25, 2017, 10:10:14 AM »
And approving infrastructure projects and repealing mortgage fee cuts, etc. Again, not commenting on whether these are great or poor policies, but clearly he's not afraid to get things rolling. Looks like quite a few people were caught off-guard by some of his actions; I can see why they would become defensive that he has surprised them yet again.

And yes, his inauguration day name was dumb. But he's not the first to name his inauguration day something dumb. He's not even the first to name it "National Day of Patriotic Devotion", so I guess I won't personally get my panties in a bunch over this.

Still curious what your source is concluding that he is accomplishing anything noteworthy in record time. I would wager a lot of this stuff, like reviving the Mexico City Policy, are par for the course when a new party comes into office, as is getting the ball rolling on various top priorities.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1402 on: January 25, 2017, 10:39:47 AM »
Every president in recent memory has undergone a "first 100 day" blitz of new appointments, executive orders and budget proposals.
I've seen no evidence that DJT has accomplished more in his first 5 days in office vs. other Presidents.

in fact, he is behind Obama, Reagan and Bush Sr. so far in getting cabinet positions confirmed.  So that's one area where he's lagging behind.

That said, I deeply disapprove of the things he has done so far.
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Gin1984

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1403 on: January 25, 2017, 10:44:05 AM »
From the above-linked WaPo article: ARS spokesman Christopher Bentley said the ban would not include scientific publications released through peer-reviewed professional journals.
That's good, but a valid criticism of science and scientists is that what's published in peer reviewed journals is not seen or even very comprehensible to the average layperson.  A lot of effort has been made in the past few decades for scientists to share their research more directly with teh public by writing blogs, using social media, talking to journalists and giving community-level talks open to the public.  This seems to put a stop (at least temporarily) to all of those.

When there was a similar ban here in Canada, scientists couldn't even confirm their findings to journalists when they published important studies. Everything had to go through a government spokesperson, and it was a comlpete black=box regarding what was shared and what wasn't (as well as the reasons why some communications were blocked).
So fix education so people actually can understand.  Don't stop people from doing the research.  Most people don't understand coronary artery bypass and level of difficulty etc.  They could if they chose, but they don't.  We don't stop learning and improving because some people don't understand.
You can go to the library and read most journal articles.  It's not that hard.  But yes, it also requires education.  I don't see THAT coming from the GOP.


From the above-linked WaPo article: ARS spokesman Christopher Bentley said the ban would not include scientific publications released through peer-reviewed professional journals.
That's good, but a valid criticism of science and scientists is that what's published in peer reviewed journals is not seen or even very comprehensible to the average layperson.  A lot of effort has been made in the past few decades for scientists to share their research more directly with teh public by writing blogs, using social media, talking to journalists and giving community-level talks open to the public.  This seems to put a stop (at least temporarily) to all of those.

When there was a similar ban here in Canada, scientists couldn't even confirm their findings to journalists when they published important studies. Everything had to go through a government spokesperson, and it was a comlpete black=box regarding what was shared and what wasn't (as well as the reasons why some communications were blocked).


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EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1404 on: January 25, 2017, 11:44:14 AM »
getting shit done in fucking record time.

Personally, I don't consider the hiring freeze, pay freeze, media blackout, and press conferences full of "alternative facts" to be the kinds of shit that count as getting shit done.  Those are all the opposite of getting shit done.  Those are preventing shit from getting done.

But he did do SOME stuff, like name his inauguration day "National Day of Patriotic Devotion" like we're the DPRK.  That's some straight up Kim Jong Il style bullshit right there.

And approving infrastructure projects and repealing mortgage fee cuts, etc. Again, not commenting on whether these are great or poor policies, but clearly he's not afraid to get things rolling. Looks like quite a few people were caught off-guard by some of his actions; I can see why they would become defensive that he has surprised them yet again.

And yes, his inauguration day name was dumb. But he's not the first to name his inauguration day something dumb. He's not even the first to name it "National Day of Patriotic Devotion", so I guess I won't personally get my panties in a bunch over this.

And let's not forget that we'll finally get to the bottom of all of this rampant voter fraud and finally prove that Trump won the popular vote!  It will be such a relief to know that Trump actually is the best, most popular President.  Period.
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Lagom

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1405 on: January 25, 2017, 12:00:50 PM »
Two More:

The big one as we all know is the call for a voter fraud investigation. Utterly ridiculous, of course.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-seeks-%E2%80%98major-investigation%E2%80%99-into-unsupported-claims-of-voter-fraud/ar-AAmejnl?li=BBnb7Kz

Also, he wants to reopen/expand black site CIA torture prisons:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-poised-to-lift-ban-on-cia-%E2%80%98black-site%E2%80%99-prisons/ar-AAmenXv?li=BBnb7Kz

Interested to see how those who cited Guantanamo as a strike against Obama (even though that one is demonstrably not on him) respond to this one.

As an aside, I also am amazed at how quickly the Trumpists have co-opted the orange-one's Newspeak. If you look at the comments on those articles (I deliberately chose the right-leaning MSN for these links), you'll see quite a few Trump supporters accusing the liberal posters of using "fake news" and "alternative facts" to back up their views. Fascinating.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 12:07:35 PM by Lagom »

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1406 on: January 25, 2017, 12:05:03 PM »
As an aside, I also am amazed at how quickly the Trumpists have co-opted the orange-one's Newspeak. If you look at the comments on those articles (I deliberately chose the right-leaning MSN for these links), you'll see quite a few Trump supporters accusing the liberal posters of using "fake news" and "alternative facts" to back up their views. Fascinating.

This reminds me of elementary school ... [bully grabs your hand and hits you] "DUR! Why are you hitting yourself?"

I can feel the rage building ...
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Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1407 on: January 25, 2017, 12:07:48 PM »
And approving infrastructure projects and repealing mortgage fee cuts, etc. Again, not commenting on whether these are great or poor policies, but clearly he's not afraid to get things rolling. Looks like quite a few people were caught off-guard by some of his actions; I can see why they would become defensive that he has surprised them yet again.

And yes, his inauguration day name was dumb. But he's not the first to name his inauguration day something dumb. He's not even the first to name it "National Day of Patriotic Devotion", so I guess I won't personally get my panties in a bunch over this.

Still curious what your source is concluding that he is accomplishing anything noteworthy in record time. I would wager a lot of this stuff, like reviving the Mexico City Policy, are par for the course when a new party comes into office, as is getting the ball rolling on various top priorities.
Oh absolutely.  My point is that while the media and most of Trump's detractors are focusing on inaugural crowd sizes and personal spats, Trump is clearly working at a pace at least on Par with Obama, and actually faster than GW bush or Clinton.  One source It is clear that  to claim that he is spending all of his time arguing with reporters or tweeting or pouting about news coverage is clearly incorrect.
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deadlymonkey

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1408 on: January 25, 2017, 12:13:31 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-epa-climatechange-idUSKBN15906G?

Lets wipe out our climate change data so there won't be any proof.

Lagom

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BeginnerStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1410 on: January 25, 2017, 01:10:19 PM »
And expand Trump's business empire even though he totally isn't one bit trying to cash in on being elected president:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-25/trump-hotels-to-triple-locations-in-u-s-expansion-ceo-says?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Trumps is a businessman. That's just Trump getting shit done, for himself you know.

Lagom

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1411 on: January 25, 2017, 01:18:08 PM »
And expand Trump's business empire even though he totally isn't one bit trying to cash in on being elected president:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-25/trump-hotels-to-triple-locations-in-u-s-expansion-ceo-says?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Trumps is a businessman. That's just Trump getting shit done, for himself you know.

Indeed. I suppose we should be glad that he's keeping his focus domestic thus far. Wouldn't want to run afoul of the emoluments clause, at least not until doublethink has fully permeated the voting base.


EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1412 on: January 25, 2017, 02:49:03 PM »
Apparently there has already been one case of 'voter fraud' discovered - Steve Bannon

Quote
Bannon, whose registration lists a rented apartment in Manhattan as his address, cast his ballot for Trump in New York, according to a source familiar with his arrangements, who was not authorized to speak to the media.

Bannon, however, also remains registered to vote in Florida, according to state records. His registration lists as his address the home of Andy Badolato, a friend of Bannon’s who has worked on some of his political documentary films and written for Breitbart News, the far-right website that Bannon controlled before entering the White House as chief strategist and senior counselor to the president.

His registration in Florida was moved to Badolato’s home shortly after the publication of the Guardian report in August. Bannon has not cast a ballot in Florida, according to state records. Badolato, who was also registered to vote at the home with his adult sons, declined at the time to answer questions on whether Bannon actually lived at the property, which is required under the registration rules of the Florida division of elections.

In a pair of tweets early on Wednesday morning, Trump said that arrangements such as Bannon’s were unacceptable as he appeared to threaten a crackdown on access to the ballot box.

“I will be asking for a major investigation into VOTER FRAUD, including those registered to vote in two states...

Like many other crazy aspects of this conspiracy theory, Trump assumes that everyone registered in two states committed fraud AND voted that extra time for Hillary...
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Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1413 on: January 25, 2017, 03:13:46 PM »
Apparently there has already been one case of 'voter fraud' discovered - Steve Bannon

Quote
Bannon, whose registration lists a rented apartment in Manhattan as his address, cast his ballot for Trump in New York, according to a source familiar with his arrangements, who was not authorized to speak to the media.

Bannon, however, also remains registered to vote in Florida, according to state records. His registration lists as his address the home of Andy Badolato, a friend of Bannon’s who has worked on some of his political documentary films and written for Breitbart News, the far-right website that Bannon controlled before entering the White House as chief strategist and senior counselor to the president.

His registration in Florida was moved to Badolato’s home shortly after the publication of the Guardian report in August. Bannon has not cast a ballot in Florida, according to state records. Badolato, who was also registered to vote at the home with his adult sons, declined at the time to answer questions on whether Bannon actually lived at the property, which is required under the registration rules of the Florida division of elections.

In a pair of tweets early on Wednesday morning, Trump said that arrangements such as Bannon’s were unacceptable as he appeared to threaten a crackdown on access to the ballot box.

“I will be asking for a major investigation into VOTER FRAUD, including those registered to vote in two states...

Like many other crazy aspects of this conspiracy theory, Trump assumes that everyone registered in two states committed fraud AND voted that extra time for Hillary...

I wonder if that's true of Tiffany?

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/316146-tiffany-trump-is-registered-to-vote-in-two-states-report

I'm guessing Bannon definitely used his two votes for Trump, out of self-interest anyway.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/01/25/report-steve-bannon-registered-vote-2-states-amid-trumps-voter-fraud-complaints
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Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1414 on: January 25, 2017, 03:17:48 PM »
Looks like Trump is kinda leaving Georgia and Florida swinging in the wake of these tornadoes.

http://www.salon.com/2017/01/25/im-begging-fema-for-boots-on-the-ground-donald-trump-leaves-gop-leaders-begging-for-aid-after-deadly-storms-in-the-south/

In other news, a conservative opposition group led by Evan McMullin is rising:

https://standuprepublic.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGk3Q2znF5g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18i6uS536c

EDIT: Seriously, Mnuchin too?!

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/25/1625143/-Trump-s-Voter-Fraud-Tiffany-Trump-Bannon-Mnuchin-all-Registered-to-Vote-in-Two-States?detail=facebook

Good lord, people. The irony is pretty freaking rich here. Too bad Trump voters will just excuse this, like they excuse everything else.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 05:03:48 PM by Kris »
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Inaya

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1415 on: January 25, 2017, 03:33:15 PM »
Looks like Trump is kinda leaving Georgia and Florida swinging in the wake of these tornadoes.
Sounds like they need to get those bootstraps out.
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Lagom

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1416 on: January 25, 2017, 04:08:47 PM »
https://twitter.com/AP/status/824374557893083146

AP reports - Trump administration to require all EPA scientific studies be run by political staff before being published. Weeeeeee!

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1417 on: January 25, 2017, 04:58:18 PM »
https://twitter.com/AP/status/824374557893083146

AP reports - Trump administration to require all EPA scientific studies be run by political staff before being published. Weeeeeee!

Gotta make sure to take the REAL facts out and put those alternative ones in.
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BeginnerStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1418 on: January 25, 2017, 05:12:43 PM »
Looks like Trump is kinda leaving Georgia and Florida swinging in the wake of these tornadoes.

Trump ain't got time for weather disasters. He's busy getting shit done for the po white folk. Buildi'n walls and stuff.

dividendman

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1419 on: January 25, 2017, 06:09:46 PM »
On the bright side, the market is up. :)

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1420 on: January 25, 2017, 08:24:39 PM »
Looks like Trump is kinda leaving Georgia and Florida swinging in the wake of these tornadoes.

http://www.salon.com/2017/01/25/im-begging-fema-for-boots-on-the-ground-donald-trump-leaves-gop-leaders-begging-for-aid-after-deadly-storms-in-the-south/

In other news, a conservative opposition group led by Evan McMullin is rising:

https://standuprepublic.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGk3Q2znF5g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18i6uS536c

EDIT: Seriously, Mnuchin too?!

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/25/1625143/-Trump-s-Voter-Fraud-Tiffany-Trump-Bannon-Mnuchin-all-Registered-to-Vote-in-Two-States?detail=facebook

Good lord, people. The irony is pretty freaking rich here. Too bad Trump voters will just excuse this, like they excuse everything else.
Umm... the studies show voter fraud is a non issue, despite what Trump would have you believe. Though I'm sure Trump haters will ignore these studies.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1421 on: January 25, 2017, 08:26:01 PM »
On the bright side, the market is up. :)
I'll take the good with the bad!
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ysette9

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1422 on: January 25, 2017, 08:28:53 PM »
I realize that the conversation has moved on from this by now, but I wanted to add something because it relates so perfectly to something I was reading just last night.

Quote
Correct, if I thought sex was purely for procreation. But I don't. I think it's primary purpose is procreation.

This quote is thoroughly wrong but illustrates nicely what I just learned in the book The Third Chimpanzee by Jared Diamond, author of Collapse and Guns, Germs, and Steel (you may have heard of him; MacArthur Fellow, awarded National Medal of Science, professor, etc.).

From the chapter titled "The Evolution of Human Sexuality"

Quote
Whatever the main biological function of human copulation, it isn't conception, which is just an occasional by-product. ... In no species besides humans has the purpose of copulation become so unrelated to conception, or the rhythm method so unsuited for contraception."

Quote
Most mammals are sexually inactive most of the time. They copulate only when the female is in estrus - i.e., when she is ovulating and capable of being fertilized. Female mammals apparently "know" when they are ovulating, for they solicit copulation then by presenting their genitals towards males. Lest a male miss the point, many female primates go further: the area around the vagina, plus in some species the buttocks and breasts, swells up an turns red, pink, or blue....

Quote
Human sexual cycles are quite different. The human female maintains her sexual receptivity more or less constantly, instead of having it sharply confined to a short estrus phase. Indeed, despite numerous studies aimed at settling whether a woman's receptivity varies at all through her cycle, there is still no agreement about the answer - nor about the cycle phase when receptivity is maximal if it does vary.

Quote
Our concealed ovulation, constant receptivity, and brief fertile period in each menstrual cycle ensure that most copulation by humans are at the wrong time for conception.

Summary: if the main purpose of human copulation were indeed reproduction, we would only mate when the female is fertile and it would be damn obvious to both females and males when that fertile window is. As someone who has purposefully studied my cycle in order to become pregnant, I can tell you that I can only now, after 5 years, be certain when I have ovulated, and that is often with the aid of tools such as ovulation predictor kits. Furthermore, from a purely biological point of view, copulation comes at a price, both in time and energy spent having sex rather than looking for food, making yourself distracted and vulnerable to predators, and for the male, making and ejecting sperm also takes energy. In most other animals whose sole purpose is procreation, all of this energy expenditure is carefully regulated to get the most bang for the buck, so to speak. We humans are clear outliers in this trend because we do not mate primarily for reproductive purposes.
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EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1423 on: January 25, 2017, 08:33:10 PM »
Not even through his first week as the leader of the free world, a Nation that once was a shining beacon of hope, and our President is being trolled on Twitter by the former Mexican president.  Let's hope Trump can hold his thumbs back for a day or two, although the opposition to all of his 'progress' is really starting to pile on at this point.  Environmentalists, fact checking media, big city mayors, Seth Meyers... 
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1424 on: January 25, 2017, 08:37:39 PM »
Quote
although the opposition to all of his 'progress' is really starting to pile on at this point.  Environmentalists, fact checking media, big city mayors, Seth Meyers...

and the national parks service! Let's not forget them. It must be really bad when the gentle, smiling people in big hats and green and khaki uniforms are trolling you on twitter.
#AltUSNatParkService
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Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1425 on: January 25, 2017, 09:06:49 PM »
On the bright side, the market is up. :)
have to take good with the terrible, i guess.
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Poundwise

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1426 on: January 25, 2017, 09:28:21 PM »
Not even through his first week as the leader of the free world, a Nation that once was a shining beacon of hope, and our President is being trolled on Twitter by the former Mexican president.  Let's hope Trump can hold his thumbs back for a day or two, although the opposition to all of his 'progress' is really starting to pile on at this point.  Environmentalists, fact checking media, big city mayors, Seth Meyers...

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« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 09:34:12 PM by Poundwise »

ysette9

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1427 on: January 25, 2017, 09:30:40 PM »
That was such a good video. A family friend sent us a link to a Finnish parody of him that aired recently as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Ymr9E7u1Y&feature=youtu.be
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1428 on: January 26, 2017, 05:16:19 AM »
Also, he wants to reopen/expand black site CIA torture prisons:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-poised-to-lift-ban-on-cia-%E2%80%98black-site%E2%80%99-prisons/ar-AAmenXv?li=BBnb7Kz

Interested to see how those who cited Guantanamo as a strike against Obama (even though that one is demonstrably not on him) respond to this one.

Obama attempted to close Guantanamo and failed.  Although much of the failure was due to the republican held congress, I suppose that he does shoulder some responsibility for that.  Trump though, has indicated that his top people are telling him that torture works and that's why it's necessary . . . so, we have (yet more) evidence that his top people don't know what they're talking about.


"(Torture) is a poor technique that yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say what he thinks the interrogator wants to hear." - US Army FM 34-52 on Intelligence Interrogation

“(Torture is) not an effective means of obtaining accurate information or gaining detainee cooperation.”   and
“I personally remain firm in my belief that enhanced interrogation techniques are not an appropriate method obtain intelligence and that their use impairs our ability to continue to play a leadership role in the world.”
- CIA Director John Brennan

http://www.cgu.edu/pdffiles/sbos/costanzo_effects_of_interrogation.pdf

http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1196&context=ilj

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0022343313520023

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233006674_Erroneous_Assumptions_Popular_Belief_in_the_Effectiveness_of_Torture_Interrogation

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/an_fbi_interrogator_on_the_effectiveness_of_torture/

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/tortureandrendition/p/is_torture_just.htm

http://www.livescience.com/9209-study-torture-techniques-unethical-ineffective.html

etc. etc. etc.

deadlymonkey

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1429 on: January 26, 2017, 05:47:36 AM »
I think his "top people" who told him it works is some talking head on Fox.  Most if not all of the major IC heads and military leaders have publically said it does not work and they would resign rather than order it.

teen persuasion

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1430 on: January 26, 2017, 05:58:55 AM »
Also, he wants to reopen/expand black site CIA torture prisons:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-poised-to-lift-ban-on-cia-%E2%80%98black-site%E2%80%99-prisons/ar-AAmenXv?li=BBnb7Kz

Interested to see how those who cited Guantanamo as a strike against Obama (even though that one is demonstrably not on him) respond to this one.

Obama attempted to close Guantanamo and failed.  Although much of the failure was due to the republican held congress, I suppose that he does shoulder some responsibility for that.  Trump though, has indicated that his top people are telling him that torture works and that's why it's necessary . . . so, we have (yet more) evidence that his top people don't know what they're talking about.


"(Torture) is a poor technique that yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say what he thinks the interrogator wants to hear." - US Army FM 34-52 on Intelligence Interrogation

“(Torture is) not an effective means of obtaining accurate information or gaining detainee cooperation.”   and
“I personally remain firm in my belief that enhanced interrogation techniques are not an appropriate method obtain intelligence and that their use impairs our ability to continue to play a leadership role in the world.”
- CIA Director John Brennan

http://www.cgu.edu/pdffiles/sbos/costanzo_effects_of_interrogation.pdf

http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1196&context=ilj

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0022343313520023

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233006674_Erroneous_Assumptions_Popular_Belief_in_the_Effectiveness_of_Torture_Interrogation

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/an_fbi_interrogator_on_the_effectiveness_of_torture/

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/tortureandrendition/p/is_torture_just.htm

http://www.livescience.com/9209-study-torture-techniques-unethical-ineffective.html

etc. etc. etc.

Bolding added by me.

Last night on the national news they played a clip from David Muir's interview with Trump where David asked about this issue.  Trump claimed his people said torture worked.  Then in real time David asked another reporter what he thought of this clip - "Simply FASCINATING, because those same people have told me that they don't want torture, it doesn't work".

Just because Trump claims someone told him something doesn't make it true.  I've decided that, at least as far as truth goes, Trump is a five year old.  When asked for the truth, 5 year olds tell you what they wish was the truth.  Actual truth is a slippery concept at that age.

BeginnerStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1431 on: January 26, 2017, 06:03:10 AM »
Also, he wants to reopen/expand black site CIA torture prisons:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-poised-to-lift-ban-on-cia-%E2%80%98black-site%E2%80%99-prisons/ar-AAmenXv?li=BBnb7Kz

Interested to see how those who cited Guantanamo as a strike against Obama (even though that one is demonstrably not on him) respond to this one.

 so, we have (yet more) evidence that his top people don't know what they're talking about.


To be fair they are probably just relying in alternative truths. You know those non-truth truths?

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1432 on: January 26, 2017, 06:20:22 AM »
Looks like Trump is kinda leaving Georgia and Florida swinging in the wake of these tornadoes.

http://www.salon.com/2017/01/25/im-begging-fema-for-boots-on-the-ground-donald-trump-leaves-gop-leaders-begging-for-aid-after-deadly-storms-in-the-south/

In other news, a conservative opposition group led by Evan McMullin is rising:

https://standuprepublic.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGk3Q2znF5g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18i6uS536c

EDIT: Seriously, Mnuchin too?!

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/25/1625143/-Trump-s-Voter-Fraud-Tiffany-Trump-Bannon-Mnuchin-all-Registered-to-Vote-in-Two-States?detail=facebook

Good lord, people. The irony is pretty freaking rich here. Too bad Trump voters will just excuse this, like they excuse everything else.
Umm... the studies show voter fraud is a non issue, despite what Trump would have you believe. Though I'm sure Trump haters will ignore these studies.

I'm apt to write off the two-state registration as a non-issue. First, there are bigger problems. Second, there's no indication any of them voted twice (or even attempted to). Third, I wouldn't even know how to cancel old voter registration after moving to a new state, and I'm sure most people don't even think about it in the first place. We should really have an automated system that can just transfer the record to the new state, showing that this unique voter went from state A to state B, and is duly registered in their new place. You could even do it under the auspices of preventing fraud, while making it easier to vote. Everyone wins. Too bad it would cost 0.0002% of the federal budget or whatever.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1433 on: January 26, 2017, 06:27:34 AM »
Looks like Trump is kinda leaving Georgia and Florida swinging in the wake of these tornadoes.

http://www.salon.com/2017/01/25/im-begging-fema-for-boots-on-the-ground-donald-trump-leaves-gop-leaders-begging-for-aid-after-deadly-storms-in-the-south/

In other news, a conservative opposition group led by Evan McMullin is rising:

https://standuprepublic.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGk3Q2znF5g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18i6uS536c

EDIT: Seriously, Mnuchin too?!

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/25/1625143/-Trump-s-Voter-Fraud-Tiffany-Trump-Bannon-Mnuchin-all-Registered-to-Vote-in-Two-States?detail=facebook

Good lord, people. The irony is pretty freaking rich here. Too bad Trump voters will just excuse this, like they excuse everything else.
Umm... the studies show voter fraud is a non issue, despite what Trump would have you believe. Though I'm sure Trump haters will ignore these studies.

I'm apt to write off the two-state registration as a non-issue. First, there are bigger problems. Second, there's no indication any of them voted twice (or even attempted to). Third, I wouldn't even know how to cancel old voter registration after moving to a new state, and I'm sure most people don't even think about it in the first place. We should really have an automated system that can just transfer the record to the new state, showing that this unique voter went from state A to state B, and is duly registered in their new place. You could even do it under the auspices of preventing fraud, while making it easier to vote. Everyone wins. Too bad it would cost 0.0002% of the federal budget or whatever.

Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1434 on: January 26, 2017, 06:28:45 AM »
Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

I guess it's just frustrating to see people on the left take that bait.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1435 on: January 26, 2017, 06:49:12 AM »
Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

I guess it's just frustrating to see people on the left take that bait.
What bait?  And what left?

All we have here is someone correctly pointing out yet another indication that Trump is bat shit crazy, in this case about the fact that he got less of the popular vote than Hilary.
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1436 on: January 26, 2017, 06:50:47 AM »
Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

I guess it's just frustrating to see people on the left take that bait.
What bait?  And what left?

All we have here is someone correctly pointing out yet another indication that Trump is bat shit crazy, in this case about the fact that he got less of the popular vote than Hilary.

There were a bunch of articles going around shouting about how Bannon, et al are fraudsters. Mostly pearl clutching.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1437 on: January 26, 2017, 08:00:31 AM »
Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

I guess it's just frustrating to see people on the left take that bait.
What bait?  And what left?

All we have here is someone correctly pointing out yet another indication that Trump is bat shit crazy, in this case about the fact that he got less of the popular vote than Hilary.
No. It's detractors making a logically fallacy in their attacks on their opponent. That's the bait; and people are falling for it left, right and center. There's so much to counter Trump on that seeing people distracted by things like voter registration of his family and inauguration crowd sizes is frustrating to those in the country that would like to see discussion and progress on actual issues.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1438 on: January 26, 2017, 08:03:34 AM »
People need to stop hedging their bets and flat out say "Trump, you are lying and wrong".
"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1439 on: January 26, 2017, 08:10:02 AM »
Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

I guess it's just frustrating to see people on the left take that bait.
What bait?  And what left?

All we have here is someone correctly pointing out yet another indication that Trump is bat shit crazy, in this case about the fact that he got less of the popular vote than Hilary.
No. It's detractors making a logically fallacy in their attacks on their opponent. That's the bait; and people are falling for it left, right and center. There's so much to counter Trump on that seeing people distracted by things like voter registration of his family and inauguration crowd sizes is frustrating to those in the country that would like to see discussion and progress on actual issues.
I thought that Trump was saying that there were 3 million illegal votes for Hillary, and one of the ways that he could prove this was by the number of double registrations?  So pointing out that double registrations are common even among his closest followers (who presumably voted for him, lawfully, once) nicely points out the absurdity of Trump's position.

And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1440 on: January 26, 2017, 08:43:47 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1441 on: January 26, 2017, 08:45:37 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.

What policy discussions? I've seen a string of executive orders...not so much discussion.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1442 on: January 26, 2017, 08:53:21 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.

What policy discussions? I've seen a string of executive orders...not so much discussion.

That's my point. We need to be having actual discussions. Cabinet confirmations need to be discussions. We need to discuss the new legislation Congress is introducing.

We aren't. We're talking about imaginary voter fraud and Melania's dress.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

Ottawa

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1443 on: January 26, 2017, 09:01:41 AM »
Could it be that Trump is exercising 'Outrage Dilution'?

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156399716951/outrage-dilution
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Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1444 on: January 26, 2017, 09:01:46 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.

What policy discussions? I've seen a string of executive orders...not so much discussion.

That's my point. We need to be having actual discussions. Cabinet confirmations need to be discussions. We need to discuss the new legislation Congress is introducing.

We aren't. We're talking about imaginary voter fraud and Melania's dress.

Since I'm the one you were originally policing here...

I can send you the log of the phone calls I've made in the past few weeks to my congresspeople about the cabinet nominees and legislation the Republicans are proposing to Congress.

Can I also talk about how batshit crazy Trump is now?
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

Rimu05

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1445 on: January 26, 2017, 09:06:32 AM »
I was willing to give Trump a chance and thought he wouldn't follow up on campaign promises but now he's talking about the wall yet again and I'm losing respect here that I never had.

The wall is such a stupid idea I can't believe it is still up for discussion. The wall thing is so embarrassing on just about every front. I can understand wanting to keep illegal immigration down, but a wall? Is there going to be a night's watch patrolling around that wall.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1446 on: January 26, 2017, 09:11:59 AM »
Could it be that Trump is exercising 'Outrage Dilution'?

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156399716951/outrage-dilution
Likely. And it's working, in my opinon. Dat guy got trolling skills.
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Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1447 on: January 26, 2017, 09:13:43 AM »
Could it be that Trump is exercising 'Outrage Dilution'?

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156399716951/outrage-dilution
Likely. And it's working, in my opinon. Dat guy got trolling skills.

I really don't think so. The guy is way too unhinged to be that skilled. He's just nuts, and can't help himself.

Not to say the effect isn't the same.
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1448 on: January 26, 2017, 09:19:26 AM »
Since I'm the one you were originally policing here...

I can send you the log of the phone calls I've made in the past few weeks to my congresspeople about the cabinet nominees and legislation the Republicans are proposing to Congress.

Can I also talk about how batshit crazy Trump is now?

I'm not trying to be the thought police. I'm just expressing frustration that nonsense gets more media and public attention than substance.
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1449 on: January 26, 2017, 09:24:17 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.

What policy discussions? I've seen a string of executive orders...not so much discussion.

That's my point. We need to be having actual discussions. Cabinet confirmations need to be discussions. We need to discuss the new legislation Congress is introducing.

We aren't. We're talking about imaginary voter fraud and Melania's dress.

Trump is talking about imaginary voter fraud.  My social circle is far more concerned with the assault on science and communication from other government agencies.

I've heard nothing about Melania's dress. Not sure if that was a red herring or something that's actually happening.