Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 131596 times)

accolay

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1200 on: January 21, 2017, 05:18:31 PM »
Well, back to answer the OP topic...

The President has already signed an executive order to start fucking up the ACA. Sorry for those that thought things were going to be better and cheaper or more affordable or whatever he said, and thought that he wouldn't be the one to undermine the law, but it's going to happen, people will lose insurance, and they only plan, if you can call it that, is to make income tax lower.

Also, at least people got out to march today. Too bad they didn't get out to vote.

KBecks

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1201 on: January 21, 2017, 05:25:41 PM »
Also, at least people got out to march today. Too bad they didn't get out to vote.

Ah, they just live in the wrong states.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1202 on: January 21, 2017, 05:39:03 PM »
Sorry, i couldn't resist taking that cliche to it's literal conclusion :-)
Apologies for the derailment.
Touche...
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Lagom

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1203 on: January 21, 2017, 07:13:23 PM »
Isn't this just the same thing he did all through the campaign?

OF COURSE he says the media is lying.  We should all just get used to listening to Trump speak with the clear understanding that he's saying what he wants to be true, not what is actually true. 

And there will be more punitive action, of course.  He's already saying that news outlets that posted any pictures of the inauguration crowd will pay a "big price" for their "dishonesty".  Is this how the erosion of the free press starts?  With retribution for posting photographs of things that actually happened?

Obviously no one here (who dislikes Trump anyway) is surprised. I just keep hammering away because I have this crazy idea that at least a few people who keep mindlessly defending him will finally admit (to themselves if not to us) that just maybe he has one or two itty bitty flaws that might be a teeny tiny bit concerning.

Many prominent conservatives agree with me. To wit, per CNN (in b4 someone calls CNN fake news!), Bill Kristol on the travesty of a press briefing following Trump's claims:

Conservative commentator Bill Kristol said "it is embarrassing, as an American, to watch this briefing by Sean Spicer from the podium at the White House. Not the RNC. The White House."

« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 07:17:16 PM by Lagom »

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1204 on: January 21, 2017, 10:02:02 PM »
Well, back to answer the OP topic...

The President has already signed an executive order to start fucking up the ACA. Sorry for those that thought things were going to be better and cheaper or more affordable or whatever he said, and thought that he wouldn't be the one to undermine the law, but it's going to happen, people will lose insurance, and they only plan, if you can call it that, is to make income tax lower.

Also, at least people got out to march today. Too bad they didn't get out to vote.

Well, there is one campaign promise kept, i guess.
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bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1205 on: January 21, 2017, 11:32:32 PM »
Isn't this just the same thing he did all through the campaign?

OF COURSE he says the media is lying.  We should all just get used to listening to Trump speak with the clear understanding that he's saying what he wants to be true, not what is actually true. 

And there will be more punitive action, of course.  He's already saying that news outlets that posted any pictures of the inauguration crowd will pay a "big price" for their "dishonesty".  Is this how the erosion of the free press starts?  With retribution for posting photographs of things that actually happened?

Obviously no one here (who dislikes Trump anyway) is surprised. I just keep hammering away because I have this crazy idea that at least a few people who keep mindlessly defending him will finally admit (to themselves if not to us) that just maybe he has one or two itty bitty flaws that might be a teeny tiny bit concerning.

Many prominent conservatives agree with me. To wit, per CNN (in b4 someone calls CNN fake news!), Bill Kristol on the travesty of a press briefing following Trump's claims:

Conservative commentator Bill Kristol said "it is embarrassing, as an American, to watch this briefing by Sean Spicer from the podium at the White House. Not the RNC. The White House."

It's getting downright surreal. Wow.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1206 on: January 22, 2017, 01:58:01 AM »
Well, there is one campaign promise kept, i guess.
But but but - Trump promised to repeal and replace simultaneously, didn't he?  So now he's signing something to do with repeal without signing something about replacement?  Without even a plan or statement about replacement?  How is that keeping a promise?

Trump has just proved his batshitcrazy levels while in office as President by trying to argue over photographs of the attendance levels at his inauguration.

Ye gods and little fishes.  The man is utterly, irredeemably, bat shit crazy.
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

packlawyer04

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1207 on: January 22, 2017, 07:19:30 AM »
Isn't this just the same thing he did all through the campaign?

OF COURSE he says the media is lying.  We should all just get used to listening to Trump speak with the clear understanding that he's saying what he wants to be true, not what is actually true. 

And there will be more punitive action, of course.  He's already saying that news outlets that posted any pictures of the inauguration crowd will pay a "big price" for their "dishonesty".  Is this how the erosion of the free press starts?  With retribution for posting photographs of things that actually happened?

Obviously no one here (who dislikes Trump anyway) is surprised. I just keep hammering away because I have this crazy idea that at least a few people who keep mindlessly defending him will finally admit (to themselves if not to us) that just maybe he has one or two itty bitty flaws that might be a teeny tiny bit concerning.

Many prominent conservatives agree with me. To wit, per CNN (in b4 someone calls CNN fake news!), Bill Kristol on the travesty of a press briefing following Trump's claims:

Conservative commentator Bill Kristol said "it is embarrassing, as an American, to watch this briefing by Sean Spicer from the podium at the White House. Not the RNC. The White House."

Why does anyone care what conservative commentators say. Trump is not a republican or democrat. He is pissing off everyone. Which is why he won. I hope he blows up the entire system.  I love the fact he called all of them out for doing nothing for decades. Good for him.

packlawyer04

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1208 on: January 22, 2017, 07:33:49 AM »
Well, there is one campaign promise kept, i guess.
But but but - Trump promised to repeal and replace simultaneously, didn't he?  So now he's signing something to do with repeal without signing something about replacement?  Without even a plan or statement about replacement?  How is that keeping a promise?

Trump has just proved his batshitcrazy levels while in office as President by trying to argue over photographs of the attendance levels at his inauguration.

Ye gods and little fishes.  The man is utterly, irredeemably, bat shit crazy.

No he is not.

Unique User

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1209 on: January 22, 2017, 08:06:44 AM »
In less than 30 minutes both the White House Climate Change webpage and Department of Labor’s report on Advancing LGBT Workplace Rights has been taken down.


https://www.whitehouse.gov/energy/climate-change

"Sound energy policy begins with the recognition that we have vast untapped domestic energy reserves right here in America. The Trump Administration will embrace the shale oil and gas revolution to bring jobs and prosperity to millions of Americans. We must take advantage of the estimated $50 trillion in untapped shale, oil, and natural gas reserves, especially those on federal lands that the American people own. We will use the revenues from energy production to rebuild our roads, schools, bridges and public infrastructure. Less expensive energy will be a big boost to American agriculture, as well."

THis on the new White House website.

so it begins, we're all screwed.

I am pretty scared about many of the predictions for our future under Trump, but am aware that much legislation can be redone over time and the people will heal. I read the full Republican Party Platform and asked anybody thinking of voting for Trump/Pence to read it before voting. The Platform was loaded with extreme Right Wing Tea Party ideas that I know most Republicans do not agree with.  Using federal land for mining was in the platform, which sounded crazy at the time. I think 90% of Americans agree that using Federal Lands for any type of mining is not in the best interest of the country. I can't even believe we are going to have to defend America's greatest treasures. It's a complete disaster! Mining the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Yosmite......... Tears!!!!!!! Many, many tears! Mining cannot be undone. There is just so much to protest.

Do you even have any idea how much federal land is leased for mining purposes currently? I mean, this is not new, or strange or nearly as disastrous as you are implying.

A lot of federal lands are open to mining, but a lot of land is not, see below.  I don't think Trump will try to open up National Monuments or Parks to mining and drilling, but there is a lot of currently protected land that could be in danger.  The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, as well as many other areas.   

• Most Bureau of Reclamation Lands
• Most Conservation Areas
• Land Otherwise Withdrawn from Public Access Such as Endangered Species Habitat
• Military Reservations
• National Monuments
• National Parks
• Some National Recreation Areas if Administered by the Park Service
• Most National Wildlife Refuges
• Wild and Scenic Rivers Within 1/4 Mile of the Bank on Each Side of River
• Wilderness

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1210 on: January 22, 2017, 08:41:03 AM »
Seems to me like drilling in our national parks and monuments and on military reservations is a really bad thing to do (not to mention lots of other places).
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Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1211 on: January 22, 2017, 08:56:47 AM »
Seems to me like drilling in our national parks and monuments and on military reservations is a really bad thing to do (not to mention lots of other places).
There are certainly pros and cons to it.
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MustacheMathTM

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1212 on: January 22, 2017, 09:09:09 AM »
"No he is not"?  That's all you've got?

Let's look at the evidence.  He is on film, in his first speech after his inauguration, saying -

"I was explaining about the numbers.  We did a thing yesterday, the speech - did everybody like the speech? You had to like it, so I've been given good reviews - but, but we had a massive field of people, you saw them.  Packed.  I get up this morning, I turn on one of the networks, and they show an empty field.  I said "wait a minute".  I made a speech.  I looked out. The field was - it looked like a million, a million and a half people.  They showed a field where there were practically nobody standing there.  And they said "Donald Trump did not draw well".  I said "It was almost raining.  The rain should have scared them away but God looked down and he said "we're not going to let it rain on your speech."" Fact is.  When I first started, "oh no", the first line, I got hit by a couple of drops, and I said "oh, this is too bad but we'll go right through it".  But the truth is that it stopped immediately, it was amazing, and then it became really sunny and then I walked off and it poured right after I left.  It poured but, you know, we have something that's amazing because we had, it looked, honestly, like a million and a half people, whatever it was, it was, but it went all the way back to the Washington Monument.  And I turn on the thing and by mistake I get this network and it showed an empty field.  And it said we drew 250,000 people.  Now that's not bad.  But it's a lie.  We had 250,000 people literally around you know in the little bowl that we constructed, that was 250,000 people.  The rest of the you know 20 block area all the way back to the Washington Monument was packed.  So we caught them, and we caught them in a beauty, and I think they're going to pay a big price."

Those are the words of a man who is so narciscistic that the preservation of his own ego is more important than the truth, and more important than his role as President of the United States.
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

packlawyer04

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1213 on: January 22, 2017, 09:32:44 AM »
"No he is not"?  That's all you've got?

Let's look at the evidence.  He is on film, in his first speech after his inauguration, saying -

"I was explaining about the numbers.  We did a thing yesterday, the speech - did everybody like the speech? You had to like it, so I've been given good reviews - but, but we had a massive field of people, you saw them.  Packed.  I get up this morning, I turn on one of the networks, and they show an empty field.  I said "wait a minute".  I made a speech.  I looked out. The field was - it looked like a million, a million and a half people.  They showed a field where there were practically nobody standing there.  And they said "Donald Trump did not draw well".  I said "It was almost raining.  The rain should have scared them away but God looked down and he said "we're not going to let it rain on your speech."" Fact is.  When I first started, "oh no", the first line, I got hit by a couple of drops, and I said "oh, this is too bad but we'll go right through it".  But the truth is that it stopped immediately, it was amazing, and then it became really sunny and then I walked off and it poured right after I left.  It poured but, you know, we have something that's amazing because we had, it looked, honestly, like a million and a half people, whatever it was, it was, but it went all the way back to the Washington Monument.  And I turn on the thing and by mistake I get this network and it showed an empty field.  And it said we drew 250,000 people.  Now that's not bad.  But it's a lie.  We had 250,000 people literally around you know in the little bowl that we constructed, that was 250,000 people.  The rest of the you know 20 block area all the way back to the Washington Monument was packed.  So we caught them, and we caught them in a beauty, and I think they're going to pay a big price."

Those are the words of a man who is so narciscistic that the preservation of his own ego is more important than the truth, and more important than his role as President of the United States.

People that are crazy don't accomplish what he has done. I guess I have different definitions of crazy.  Most crazy people can't accomplish the daily tasks of basic living like cleaning themselves, washing clothes or cooking a meal.  What is your definition of crazy.

This is simply a bunch of butthurt from liberals who thought they had this election wrapped up and the "republican party was dead." 

waltworks

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1214 on: January 22, 2017, 09:37:57 AM »
People who are born to millionaires (would be billionaires in today's dollars) can be pretty crazy and still do well.

Note that I don't think Trump is crazy. He is very rational. He has gotten where he is by ignoring the truth completely whenever it suits him and people have eaten it up. I'd be doing the same thing in his shoes - straight out of the Hugo Chavez (or Peron) playbook.

It works as long as things go your way, and since he's been handed a pretty solid economy, my guess is he'll do allright for a few years.

-W

Lagom

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1215 on: January 22, 2017, 09:42:38 AM »
packlawyer04, another low post count individual coming in not to actually engage but only to tell us that if we dislike Trump we are a obviously nothing but butthurt liberals. Lies don't matter. Misogyny doesn't matter. Corruption doesn't matter. Only winning matters.

Move along, folks, nothing more to see here.

packlawyer04

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1216 on: January 22, 2017, 10:00:43 AM »
People who are born to millionaires (would be billionaires in today's dollars) can be pretty crazy and still do well.

Note that I don't think Trump is crazy. He is very rational. He has gotten where he is by ignoring the truth completely whenever it suits him and people have eaten it up. I'd be doing the same thing in his shoes - straight out of the Hugo Chavez (or Peron) playbook.

It works as long as things go your way, and since he's been handed a pretty solid economy, my guess is he'll do allright for a few years.

-W

From a die hard liberal. I'm amazed that some of you are still just about Tump. You have much bigger problems than Trump:

The ongoing contest between the Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders wings of the Democratic Party continues to divide Democrats. It’s urgent Democrats stop squabbling and recognize seven basic truths:

The Party is on life support. Democrats are in the minority in both the House and Senate, with no end in sight. Since the start of the Obama Administration they’ve lost 1,034 state and federal seats. They hold only governorships, and face 32 state legislatures fully under GOP control. No one speaks for the party as a whole. The Party’s top leaders are aging, and the back bench is thin.

The future is bleak unless the Party radically reforms itself. If Republicans do well in the 2018 midterms, they’ll control Congress and the Supreme Court for years. If they continue to hold most statehouses, they could entrench themselves for a generation.

We are now in a populist era. The strongest and most powerful force in American politics is a rejection of the status quo, a repudiation of politics as usual, and a deep and profound distrust of elites, including the current power structure of America.

That force propelled Donald Trump into the White House. He represents the authoritarian side of populism. Bernie Sanders’s primary campaign represented the progressive side.

The question hovering over America’s future is which form of populism will ultimately prevail. At some point, hopefully, Trump voters will discover they’ve been hoodwinked. Even in its purist form, authoritarian populism doesn’t work because it destroys democracy. Democrats must offer the alternative.

The economy is not working for most Americans. The economic data show lower unemployment and higher wages than eight years ago, but the typical family is still poorer today than it was in 2000, adjusted for inflation; median weekly earning are no higher than in 2000; a large number of working-age people – mostly men – have dropped out of the labor force altogether; and job insecurity is endemic.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/22/seven_truths_for_democrats_132868.html
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 10:04:06 AM by packlawyer04 »

waltworks

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1217 on: January 22, 2017, 10:04:27 AM »
Actually median income hasn't increased since the mid 1970s, so it's even worse than that. But yes, agreed with all of that. Nobody has yet offered a realistic solution to the stagnation of the middle class (either here in the US or in Europe). And nothing that anyone has tried has made an impact, from the progressive or conservative side.

Time for a UBI, I think.

-W


nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1218 on: January 22, 2017, 10:07:33 AM »
FYI:

There's a petition on the White House website for DJT to release his tax returns.  While it's already garnered the requisite number of signatures for an official response, Kellyanne Conway had this to say yesterday:

Quote
The White House response is that he’s not going to release his tax returns,” said Kellyanne Conway, counselor to the president, during an appearance on ABC’S This Week with George Stephanopoulos. “We litigated this all through the election. People didn’t care.”

If you care, sign the petition.  The more that sign the more ridiculous the administration's line that the public doesn't care becomes.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-release-donald-trumps-full-tax-returns-all-information-needed-verify-emoluments-clause-compliance
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packlawyer04

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1219 on: January 22, 2017, 10:10:41 AM »
Actually median income hasn't increased since the mid 1970s, so it's even worse than that. But yes, agreed with all of that. Nobody has yet offered a realistic solution to the stagnation of the middle class (either here in the US or in Europe). And nothing that anyone has tried has made an impact, from the progressive or conservative side.

Time for a UBI, I think.

-W

I agree with everything you say. And frankly, I don't know if Trump really has any plan to fix it at this point. But Trump is the first person running for president quite some time that has actually talked about it. Which is why he is now living in the white house.

People keep saying the economy is great but the election proves the country does not actually agree.  Might work for some people but many are being left behind.

Democrats would be well served to actually go back and develop policies that help the middle class versus trying to show up at BLM rallies and figuring out a way to get as many immigrants across the border as possible.  They have moved so far off track that they lost their core base which is why they have basically been destroyed from the white house all the way down to the county level across the country in the last 6 years.

dividendman

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1220 on: January 22, 2017, 10:12:03 AM »
Well, there is one campaign promise kept, i guess.
But but but - Trump promised to repeal and replace simultaneously, didn't he?  So now he's signing something to do with repeal without signing something about replacement?  Without even a plan or statement about replacement?  How is that keeping a promise?

Note that Trump did not and cannot repeal the ACA. What his executive order did is to direct the agencies to give the widest possible interpretation of the law. E.g. more people are expected not to pay the penalty for not having insurance since there will be a wider definition of hardship.

An act of Congress is required to repeal the ACA.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1221 on: January 22, 2017, 10:14:03 AM »
FYI:

There's a petition on the White House website for DJT to release his tax returns.  While it's already garnered the requisite number of signatures for an official response, Kellyanne Conway had this to say yesterday:

Quote
The White House response is that he’s not going to release his tax returns,” said Kellyanne Conway, counselor to the president, during an appearance on ABC’S This Week with George Stephanopoulos. “We litigated this all through the election. People didn’t care.”

If you care, sign the petition.  The more that sign the more ridiculous the administration's line that the public doesn't care becomes.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-release-donald-trumps-full-tax-returns-all-information-needed-verify-emoluments-clause-compliance

Meh. I for one, don't care. Unless he's filing checks directly from Putin, and at that point I would hope that the IRS would have caught something that massively improper. There are clearly much larger problems with Trump than his income streams, imo.
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waltworks

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1222 on: January 22, 2017, 10:14:36 AM »
I have to (throwing up a little in my mouth) agree with Ms. Conway here. Nobody cares. I guess I would be vaguely interested, but what in his tax returns would possible convince anyone of anything at this point? He's already openly lied about all sorts of things, bragged about grabbing genitals, been an adulterer (probably many times), and almost managed to lose his shirt in business despite being born a multimillionaire in 1950's dollars.

None of that is disqualifying to be president, apparently, so why worry about tax returns? If you really dislike him, go recruit that great charismatic member of the school board to run for city council, or that city councilor you like to run for state senate, etc. Political change happens from the local level up.

-W

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1223 on: January 22, 2017, 10:15:37 AM »
packlawyer04, another low post count individual coming in not to actually engage but only to tell us that if we dislike Trump we are a obviously nothing but butthurt liberals. Lies don't matter. Misogyny doesn't matter. Corruption doesn't matter. Only winning matters.

Move along, folks, nothing more to see here.

True. I often wonder how many of the new trolls are just new iterations of previous trolls.
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GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1224 on: January 22, 2017, 10:17:00 AM »
We are now in a populist era. The strongest and most powerful force in American politics is a rejection of the status quo, a repudiation of politics as usual, and a deep and profound distrust of elites, including the current power structure of America.

If you really believe the things you're typing (that we live in a populist era), then you should believe that the strongest and most powerful force in American politics is an acceptance of the status quo.  Hillary Clinton got more votes than Trump, which is a repudiation and indication of a deep/profound distrust of crazy politics by elites like Trump.  That she didn't win is simply an example of how the system currently is set up to ignore popular will.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1225 on: January 22, 2017, 10:20:08 AM »
I have to (throwing up a little in my mouth) agree with Ms. Conway here. Nobody cares. I guess I would be vaguely interested, but what in his tax returns would possible convince anyone of anything at this point? He's already openly lied about all sorts of things, bragged about grabbing genitals, been an adulterer (probably many times), and almost managed to lose his shirt in business despite being born a multimillionaire in 1950's dollars.

None of that is disqualifying to be president, apparently, so why worry about tax returns? If you really dislike him, go recruit that great charismatic member of the school board to run for city council, or that city councilor you like to run for state senate, etc. Political change happens from the local level up.

-W

I agree with you. The cowards in the Republican congress only care that they're in power now, so they wouldn't do anything, no matter how egregious what they found in his returns was. And Trump's supporters would still support him if he shot someone in the street, as he himself has said. The press is basically AWOL. So... i think it's wasted energy. Concentrate on what he does as president. There should be more than enough stuff that is illegal or even skirting (or crossing) the line to treason, based on what he's already shown us by his actions.
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1226 on: January 22, 2017, 10:20:46 AM »
I'm attending a conference call organized by MoveOn and other Dem groups tonight at 8 pm Eastern.

Talking and posting is cathartic but it's not getting work done, so I challenge myself to take even more action.


packlawyer04

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1227 on: January 22, 2017, 10:24:37 AM »
We are now in a populist era. The strongest and most powerful force in American politics is a rejection of the status quo, a repudiation of politics as usual, and a deep and profound distrust of elites, including the current power structure of America.

If you really believe the things you're typing (that we live in a populist era), then you should believe that the strongest and most powerful force in American politics is an acceptance of the status quo.  Hillary Clinton got more votes than Trump, which is a repudiation and indication of a deep/profound distrust of crazy politics by elites like Trump.  That she didn't win is simply an example of how the system currently is set up to ignore popular will.

Maybe you should go back and read my post.  99% of my post was quoted from the article I linked which came from a hard core liberal professor (Rober Reich) from University of Cal which is on the front page of real clear politics. Reich worked for Clinton. They don't get more liberal than him. I simply pressed ctr-c, ctl-v.

He also discusses how Bernie Sanders run further cements his belief of a rejection of the status quo.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 10:27:00 AM by packlawyer04 »

former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1228 on: January 22, 2017, 10:31:31 AM »
"No he is not"?  That's all you've got?

Let's look at the evidence.  He is on film, in his first speech after his inauguration, saying -

"I was explaining about the numbers.  We did a thing yesterday, the speech - did everybody like the speech? You had to like it, so I've been given good reviews - but, but we had a massive field of people, you saw them.  Packed.  I get up this morning, I turn on one of the networks, and they show an empty field.  I said "wait a minute".  I made a speech.  I looked out. The field was - it looked like a million, a million and a half people.  They showed a field where there were practically nobody standing there.  And they said "Donald Trump did not draw well".  I said "It was almost raining.  The rain should have scared them away but God looked down and he said "we're not going to let it rain on your speech."" Fact is.  When I first started, "oh no", the first line, I got hit by a couple of drops, and I said "oh, this is too bad but we'll go right through it".  But the truth is that it stopped immediately, it was amazing, and then it became really sunny and then I walked off and it poured right after I left.  It poured but, you know, we have something that's amazing because we had, it looked, honestly, like a million and a half people, whatever it was, it was, but it went all the way back to the Washington Monument.  And I turn on the thing and by mistake I get this network and it showed an empty field.  And it said we drew 250,000 people.  Now that's not bad.  But it's a lie.  We had 250,000 people literally around you know in the little bowl that we constructed, that was 250,000 people.  The rest of the you know 20 block area all the way back to the Washington Monument was packed.  So we caught them, and we caught them in a beauty, and I think they're going to pay a big price."

Those are the words of a man who is so narciscistic that the preservation of his own ego is more important than the truth, and more important than his role as President of the United States.

People that are crazy don't accomplish what he has done. I guess I have different definitions of crazy.  Most crazy people can't accomplish the daily tasks of basic living like cleaning themselves, washing clothes or cooking a meal.  What is your definition of crazy.

"According to the DSM-5, individuals with NPD have most or all of the following symptoms, typically without commensurate qualities or accomplishments:[8][11]
1.Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from others
2.Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
3.Self-perception of being unique, superior and associated with high-status people and institutions
4.Needing constant admiration from others
5.Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others
6.Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain
7.Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs
8.Intensely envious of others and the belief that others are equally envious of them
9.Pompous and arrogant demeanor"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Let's take another bit of evidence from Trump's CIA speech -

"Time magazine - and I have been on their cover like 14 or 15 times, I think we have the all time record in the history of Time magazine.  Like if Tom Brady's on the cover it's one time because you won the Superbowl or something, right?  I've been on for 15 times this year.  I don't think that's a record, Mike, that can ever be broken, do you agree with that?  What do you think?"

That is Trump, in his first full day as President of the United States, telling the CIA how many times he has been on the cover of Time magazine.  Twice.  Donald, it's the CIA: if they cared they could find out.  And you are the President of the United States, why are you still concerned about how many times you've been on the front cover of Time magazine?  And why do you think that the number of times you've been on the front cover of Time magazine is something it's important for you to tell the CIA?

Official diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder so extreme that it is more important to him than the role of President of the United States.  Unofficial diagnosis: Bat. Shit. Crazy.



Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

accolay

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1229 on: January 22, 2017, 10:36:39 AM »
I'm attending a conference call organized by MoveOn and other Dem groups tonight at 8 pm Eastern.

Talking and posting is cathartic but it's not getting work done, so I challenge myself to take even more action.

That's the right attitude. Hopefully number the agenda includes how to
1. float a good likeable candidate and
2. how to get people to vote.

GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1230 on: January 22, 2017, 10:40:28 AM »
We are now in a populist era. The strongest and most powerful force in American politics is a rejection of the status quo, a repudiation of politics as usual, and a deep and profound distrust of elites, including the current power structure of America.

If you really believe the things you're typing (that we live in a populist era), then you should believe that the strongest and most powerful force in American politics is an acceptance of the status quo.  Hillary Clinton got more votes than Trump, which is a repudiation and indication of a deep/profound distrust of crazy politics by elites like Trump.  That she didn't win is simply an example of how the system currently is set up to ignore popular will.

Maybe you should go back and read my post.  99% of my post was quoted from the article I linked which came from a hard core liberal professor (Rober Reich) from University of Cal which is on the front page of real clear politics. Reich worked for Clinton. They don't get more liberal than him. I simply pressed ctr-c, ctl-v.

He also discusses how Bernie Sanders run further cements his belief of a rejection of the status quo.

My mistake.  I thought that you believed the things you were re-posting.  Could you point out which parts of your posts you actually agree with and which parts you already know are patently false?

Lagom

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1231 on: January 22, 2017, 10:42:43 AM »
I'm attending a conference call organized by MoveOn and other Dem groups tonight at 8 pm Eastern.

Talking and posting is cathartic but it's not getting work done, so I challenge myself to take even more action.

https://www.womensmarch.com/100/

For those looking for inspiration, here's one place to start.

Lagom

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1232 on: January 22, 2017, 10:43:43 AM »

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1233 on: January 22, 2017, 10:51:09 AM »
I have to (throwing up a little in my mouth) agree with Ms. Conway here. Nobody cares. I guess I would be vaguely interested, but what in his tax returns would possible convince anyone of anything at this point? He's already openly lied about all sorts of things, bragged about grabbing genitals, been an adulterer (probably many times), and almost managed to lose his shirt in business despite being born a multimillionaire in 1950's dollars.

None of that is disqualifying to be president, apparently, so why worry about tax returns? If you really dislike him, go recruit that great charismatic member of the school board to run for city council, or that city councilor you like to run for state senate, etc. Political change happens from the local level up.

-W

If you don't care that's your choice.  Personally I *do* still care, because I believe that the American public should be aware of all potential financial conflicts of interest among our leaders. Transparency is the only way to accomplish this, and is the very reason why most positions of power (CEOs, elected officials, federal appointees) are required to make their records available, and its why every president since Nixon has done so voluntarily.
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GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1234 on: January 22, 2017, 10:53:32 AM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38711701

Another realistic impact.

To be fair this has nothing to do with Trump, Israel was always going to approve more settlement.  My assumption is that they will eventually annex the entirety of Palestine . . . it's really the only way that the area will ever see peace.  Think about it.  You have land that Israel has steadily invaded and captured through the history.  Palestine can never be a real country because Israel controls all movement of goods and people and enforces their own policing of the area.  Having separate countries just means continued hardship and fighting until the Palestinian people are completely driven from their land or absorbed into Israel.

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nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1236 on: January 22, 2017, 10:57:48 AM »
We are now in a populist era. The strongest and most powerful force in American politics is a rejection of the status quo, a repudiation of politics as usual, and a deep and profound distrust of elites, including the current power structure of America.

If you really believe the things you're typing (that we live in a populist era), then you should believe that the strongest and most powerful force in American politics is an acceptance of the status quo.  Hillary Clinton got more votes than Trump, which is a repudiation and indication of a deep/profound distrust of crazy politics by elites like Trump.  That she didn't win is simply an example of how the system currently is set up to ignore popular will.

Maybe you should go back and read my post.  99% of my post was quoted from the article I linked which came from a hard core liberal professor (Rober Reich) from University of Cal which is on the front page of real clear politics. Reich worked for Clinton. They don't get more liberal than him.

... Robert Reich... They dont' get more liberal than him. 
That's funny (and so wrong). He's liberal but not even close to the extreme end of the spectrum.  ha!
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Lagom

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1237 on: January 22, 2017, 11:02:31 AM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38711701

Another realistic impact.

To be fair this has nothing to do with Trump, Israel was always going to approve more settlement.  My assumption is that they will eventually annex the entirety of Palestine . . . it's really the only way that the area will ever see peace.  Think about it.  You have land that Israel has steadily invaded and captured through the history.  Palestine can never be a real country because Israel controls all movement of goods and people and enforces their own policing of the area.  Having separate countries just means continued hardship and fighting until the Palestinian people are completely driven from their land or absorbed into Israel.

A pessimistic, but possibly accurate assessment. If we want to be optimistic and assume it is (was?) possible for a two state solution to work, Trump being elected will definitely impact how brazenly Israel continues to flout international law and continue down the path you predict.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1238 on: January 22, 2017, 12:52:50 PM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38711701

Another realistic impact.

To be fair this has nothing to do with Trump, Israel was always going to approve more settlement.  My assumption is that they will eventually annex the entirety of Palestine . . . it's really the only way that the area will ever see peace.  Think about it.  You have land that Israel has steadily invaded and captured through the history.  Palestine can never be a real country because Israel controls all movement of goods and people and enforces their own policing of the area.  Having separate countries just means continued hardship and fighting until the Palestinian people are completely driven from their land or absorbed into Israel.

A pessimistic, but possibly accurate assessment. If we want to be optimistic and assume it is (was?) possible for a two state solution to work, Trump being elected will definitely impact how brazenly Israel continues to flout international law and continue down the path you predict.

Eh, Israel can't annex Palestine. The Palestinians have more kids than Israelis. Unless the Palestinians are denied the right to vote (like apartheid and definitely possible with the Likud party in charge), Israel would be facing a voting demographic change they may not like.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1239 on: January 22, 2017, 01:29:33 PM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38711701

Another realistic impact.

To be fair this has nothing to do with Trump, Israel was always going to approve more settlement.  My assumption is that they will eventually annex the entirety of Palestine . . . it's really the only way that the area will ever see peace.  Think about it.  You have land that Israel has steadily invaded and captured through the history.  Palestine can never be a real country because Israel controls all movement of goods and people and enforces their own policing of the area.  Having separate countries just means continued hardship and fighting until the Palestinian people are completely driven from their land or absorbed into Israel.

A pessimistic, but possibly accurate assessment. If we want to be optimistic and assume it is (was?) possible for a two state solution to work, Trump being elected will definitely impact how brazenly Israel continues to flout international law and continue down the path you predict.

True or not, the sentiment expressed boiled down to: the only way there can be peace* is for one side to completely win.
That just depresses me.

*footnote: historically surpressed populations have often come back; peace in this sense may not last.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1240 on: January 22, 2017, 04:17:12 PM »
Trump's policy objectives are up   https://www.whitehouse.gov/law-enforcement-community

Energy
Foreign policy
Jobs and growth
Military
Law enforcement
Trade

Looks like he's going to create 25M jobs through a bold plan to reduce taxes, while at the same time asking congress for more money to rebuild the military, and removing environmental regulations that interfere with the business of business.   

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1241 on: January 22, 2017, 04:33:52 PM »
Quote
You have land that Israel has steadily invaded and captured through the history.

You know, this has always bothered me a bit.   Israel captured those territories in the 6 days war which was started by Egypt.

And pragmatically, Israeli society has a lot more in common with US or Canadian society than the various Arab states do.   You know, things like women's rights, democratic leadership, being able to industrialize and innovate and produce things.    There's a pretty good argument that the UN resolutions around this topic aren't for the best.



Fireball

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1242 on: January 22, 2017, 07:19:58 PM »
Trump's policy objectives are up   https://www.whitehouse.gov/law-enforcement-community

"We must take advantage of the estimated $50 trillion in untapped shale, oil, and natural gas reserves, especially those on federal lands that the American people own. "

Makes me want to puke. Seriously.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1243 on: January 22, 2017, 08:27:50 PM »
Trump's policy objectives are up   https://www.whitehouse.gov/law-enforcement-community

"We must take advantage of the estimated $50 trillion in untapped shale, oil, and natural gas reserves, especially those on federal lands that the American people own. "

Makes me want to puke. Seriously.
Leveraging our future for the present?
More to the point, all this talk of increasing drilling and fracking and mining will do little while the cost of fossil fuels is as low as it is. While supply has dipped and demand has increased, we still have an over-supply of oil already.  Basic economics; for each additional barrel of oil we get less for it; trying to "unlock" large chunks of fossil fuels will face the laws of diminishing returns.
Then of course there's the OPEC bloc (plus Russia) - if the US market share starts increasing they're likely to flood the market with cheap oil again to preserve market share.  US rigs are all privately owned, so they'll respond to market forces.
They did it two years ago.

The current WH energy plan sounds like it was conjured by a climate-denying elementary school kid.
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FIRE me

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1244 on: January 22, 2017, 08:28:52 PM »
Trump's policy objectives are up   https://www.whitehouse.gov/law-enforcement-community 

I notice that under the list of “Top Issues”, health care is conspicuous in its absence.
FIRE'd on January 4, 2017

waltworks

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1245 on: January 22, 2017, 08:31:48 PM »
All I can say is that if he wants to create 25 million new jobs, he's going to have to convince more people to immigrate... the whole US labor force is only 160 million people. You'd have unemployment at zero and 18 million jobs left over...at the same time that a ton of boomers are retiring out of the workforce.

Indeed interesting that health care is nowhere on the site.

-W





nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1246 on: January 22, 2017, 08:36:40 PM »
All I can say is that if he wants to create 25 million new jobs, he's going to have to convince more people to immigrate... the whole US labor force is only 160 million people. You'd have unemployment at zero and 18 million jobs left over...at the same time that a ton of boomers are retiring out of the workforce.

It would basically push the labor participation rate up to levels not seen since shortly after WWII.  There would ahve to be a sea-change of retirees and stay-at-home-spouses all rushing into the work force.  Doesn't sound probable, or even desireable to me.
That, or a crapload of immigrants, which he seems equally opposed to with his new mantra of "America First".
"Do not confuse complexity with superiority"

accolay

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1247 on: January 23, 2017, 01:38:30 AM »
Thought the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer's lies were pretty good today. So totally brazen.

Quote
This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe,”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-traditional-way-of-reporting-on-a-president-is-dead-and-trumps-press-secretary-killed-it/2017/01/22/75403a00-e0bf-11e6-a453-19ec4b3d09ba_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_sullivan-514pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f4071ee21d07


Wow.

And then Kellyann Conway's assertion that their team has "alternative facts."

I'm going to have to stop reading the news to stop being drenched with the daily deluge of stupid.

purple monkey

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1248 on: January 23, 2017, 05:16:22 AM »
.[/quote]

"According to the DSM-5, individuals with NPD have most or all of the following symptoms, typically without commensurate qualities or accomplishments:[8][11]
1.Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from others
2.Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
3.Self-perception of being unique, superior and associated with high-status people and institutions
4.Needing constant admiration from others
5.Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others
6.Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain
7.Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs
8.Intensely envious of others and the belief that others are equally envious of them
9.Pompous and arrogant demeanor"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Let's take another bit of evidence from Trump's CIA speech -

"Time magazine - and I have been on their cover like 14 or 15 times, I think we have the all time record in the history of Time magazine.  Like if Tom Brady's on the cover it's one time because you won the Superbowl or something, right?  I've been on for 15 times this year.  I don't think that's a record, Mike, that can ever be broken, do you agree with that?  What do you think?"

That is Trump, in his first full day as President of the United States, telling the CIA how many times he has been on the cover of Time magazine.  Twice.  Donald, it's the CIA: if they cared they could find out.  And you are the President of the United States, why are you still concerned about how many times you've been on the front cover of Time magazine?  And why do you think that the number of times you've been on the front cover of Time magazine is something it's important for you to tell the CIA?

Official diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder so extreme that it is more important to him than the role of President of the United States.  Unofficial diagnosis: Bat. Shit. Crazy.


+1

deadlymonkey

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1249 on: January 23, 2017, 06:14:15 AM »
Thought the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer's lies were pretty good today. So totally brazen.

Quote
This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe,”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-traditional-way-of-reporting-on-a-president-is-dead-and-trumps-press-secretary-killed-it/2017/01/22/75403a00-e0bf-11e6-a453-19ec4b3d09ba_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_sullivan-514pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f4071ee21d07


Wow.

And then Kellyann Conway's assertion that their team has "alternative facts."

I'm going to have to stop reading the news to stop being drenched with the daily deluge of stupid.

At least CNN had that balls to straight up call them lies.  Foxnews didn't go that far but admitted the crowd sizes were smaller.