Author Topic: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?  (Read 1800 times)

sol

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2018, 12:17:25 PM »
I think republicans are shooting themselves in the face by attacking Pelosi.  By all means, please try to convince the democratic caucus to nominate a new leader, maybe someone who is not 70+ years old, and has decades of experience finding congressional compromises.

Every single person who might conceivably replace Pelosi is MORE liberal than she is.  Every democrat in congress who has said they will support a different person for speaker is trying to move the party left, towards more progressive values.  Pelosi, the ever-practical centrist, may be the only thing keeping the democrats from going full blown crazy extremist the way the republicans already have.

You know who is even more unpopular than Nancy Pelosi (29% approval)?  Mitch McConnell (24% approval).

So go ahead, republicans.  Convince the dems to let Pelosi finally retire.  You're not going to like whoever takes her place any better.

Wait a second, maybe that's the point?  Maybe the whole goal of the anti-Pelosi movement is to deliberately sow further polarization, to divide the nation even further?  Down with the centrist, long live partisan bickering?  Maybe we should be checking for Russian fingerprints on those anti-Pelosi ads, because this strategy would fall right in line with the rest of their efforts in US politics these days.

J Boogie

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2018, 12:17:39 PM »
When progressives would rather attribute political unpopularity to misogyny instead of acknowledging or at least considering flaws in the candidate, it shows bad faith and intellectual laziness. I think Nancy Pelosi is bad for the US and it's not because she's a woman.

I acknowledge misogyny might be a factor for some, but there's a better case to be made that it's because she's an out of touch limousine liberal who, at best, was mistaken about what the ACA would do to premiums but argued with complete confidence that she knew it would lower rates. Then when it was found that many would pay higher premiums, she said she didn't remember saying it would lower rates and that people are actually getting a better value with the ACA. That comes off as pretty condescending to the millions of Americans whose rates went up who could care less about the new things they've covered for now.

She has a net worth of 30 million and a cushy healthcare program. The ACA didn't negatively impact her budget one bit, but tons of working class Americans felt it very hard. Across the board, premium increases averaged about 60% from 2013 to 2017. And yet with complete confidence she told Americans how good it would be for them so they just have to pass it to see what's in it. It's a cider house rules situation - the rules have been written against their will and by someone who does not live there and deal with the same issues.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2017/03/22/yes-it-was-the-affordable-care-act-that-increased-premiums/#72afc4bb11d2

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/health/health-insurance-premiums-employer.html


TrudgingAlong

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2018, 12:38:10 PM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

Same reason why Dems didn't like Palin in 2008, being all female in our face, how dare her.

In all honestly, jumping right the ::whatever group:: card is just a cop out.  I can't disagree with or dislike Pelosi just because she's a female and I have some sort of subconscious resentment to that?  That's the bullshit.

Or Betsy DeVos or Sarah Huckabee or the first female to ever run a successful Presidential campaign (didn't hear much about that one in the press did we??), Kellyanne Conway.

While there is a tiny bit of truth in this, all of these women do shitty things, so Iíd say there are very legitimate reasons to dislike them. Sarah Huckabee in particular is vilified equally as much as her male predecessor was for her position of basically lying for the POTUS. Letís not turn every dislike about women into: ďItís because they are women.Ē

Ah, right, only the Left gets to pull that card, sorry, I'll shut up and color.

If thatís what youíd prefer /shrug

So you don't see any double standard here?  No empathy for "the other side"?

No, I donít see a double standard. I did say he had a tiny point, but really only because he included  Kellyanne Conway. He had to include a bunch of women who have done really shitty things people are opposed to. Kellyanne was disliked and I suspect mostly because she was a female supporting Trump. So, yes, it happens on both sides.

Iím a female and well aware of bias against us, but just like people donít like being called racist all the time for things that arenít, I donít think we should be including examples of people disliking women when there is a valid reason for it. I do understand if you like what these women do, you may not understand the other sideís issues with it, though.

Exactly!  Someone on the right feels exactly the same you do! They way they see it Nancy has done some "really shitty things" and they have valid reasons for disliking her, in their point of view.  Just as you do with the women being discussed.  Empathy!

Except I didnít even address the Pelosi issue, but okay.

Cromacster

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2018, 01:04:44 PM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

Same reason why Dems didn't like Palin in 2008, being all female in our face, how dare her.

In all honestly, jumping right the ::whatever group:: card is just a cop out.  I can't disagree with or dislike Pelosi just because she's a female and I have some sort of subconscious resentment to that?  That's the bullshit.

Or Betsy DeVos or Sarah Huckabee or the first female to ever run a successful Presidential campaign (didn't hear much about that one in the press did we??), Kellyanne Conway.

While there is a tiny bit of truth in this, all of these women do shitty things, so Iíd say there are very legitimate reasons to dislike them. Sarah Huckabee in particular is vilified equally as much as her male predecessor was for her position of basically lying for the POTUS. Letís not turn every dislike about women into: ďItís because they are women.Ē

Ah, right, only the Left gets to pull that card, sorry, I'll shut up and color.

If thatís what youíd prefer /shrug

So you don't see any double standard here?  No empathy for "the other side"?

No, I donít see a double standard. I did say he had a tiny point, but really only because he included  Kellyanne Conway. He had to include a bunch of women who have done really shitty things people are opposed to. Kellyanne was disliked and I suspect mostly because she was a female supporting Trump. So, yes, it happens on both sides.

Iím a female and well aware of bias against us, but just like people donít like being called racist all the time for things that arenít, I donít think we should be including examples of people disliking women when there is a valid reason for it. I do understand if you like what these women do, you may not understand the other sideís issues with it, though.

Exactly!  Someone on the right feels exactly the same you do! They way they see it Nancy has done some "really shitty things" and they have valid reasons for disliking her, in their point of view.  Just as you do with the women being discussed.  Empathy!

Except I didnít even address the Pelosi issue, but okay.

I was assuming in the context of the conversation you were defending Pelosi.  You know what happens when you assume?

I've reread our back and forth and I think we have been in agreement all along, I think I misunderstood your original comments.  Carry on.


J Boogie

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2018, 01:11:05 PM »
Glad you guys got to the bottom of that lol seemed like you were both making the same point but were still mad at each other. Pretty rare to see that from a non-married couple ;)

GuitarStv

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2018, 01:35:22 PM »
The twists and turns you take to try and make your point are absurd.  Nancy Pelosi is in favor of regular citizens not having the right to defend themselves, which enjoying protection that is unavailable to regular citizens.  I find that offensive.[/quote]

Citizens have the right to defend themselves across the United States Chris, and Nancy Pelosi has never attempted to prevent them from doing so.  It's completely possible to defend ones self without an M4, a magazine with 20 bullets, and a concealed carry license.

Ms. Pelosi does have a security detail because of her position.  This type of protection is available to regular citizens.  If you want to buy a few mercenaries to look after you you're perfectly free to do so, right?  If you feel that there is danger to your life, you're free to contact the police for protection.

You're free to find Ms. Pelosi offensive if you want.  You're free to hate her because she doesn't share your 2nd amendment viewpoint.  When you call her a hypocrite without any evidence of your claims, you don't make a very convincing argument.


Have a shitty weekend.

It looks like sun and mild temperatures here for the weekend.  I hope you have a good weekend too.

px4shooter

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2018, 01:50:30 PM »
Her insider trading deals are enough to make anyone cringe. Granted, they added the Pelosi provision to the laws to stop the Congress critters from doing more of it.

She was never alone in these acts and something had to be done, as it was very common with both parties.

Career politicians are the problem. Their sex doesn't matter. Unlike Hitlary that could not control her emotions, Pelosi has been very consistent.

She has been a promoter of illegal aliens and against the laws of our nation. That is enough.

nereo

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2018, 02:45:47 PM »
Her insider trading deals are enough to make anyone cringe. Granted, they added the Pelosi provision to the laws to stop the Congress critters from doing more of it.

She was never alone in these acts and something had to be done, as it was very common with both parties.

Career politicians are the problem. Their sex doesn't matter. Unlike Hitlary that could not control her emotions, Pelosi has been very consistent.

She has been a promoter of illegal aliens and against the laws of our nation. That is enough.

I can kinda (sorta) see how one could view her as a 'promoter' of illegal aliens when compared with the proposed policies of immigration-hawks, but what "laws of our nation" has she been against?

TrudgingAlong

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2018, 03:06:15 PM »
Glad you guys got to the bottom of that lol seemed like you were both making the same point but were still mad at each other. Pretty rare to see that from a non-married couple ;)

Heh, I wasnít mad, but internet speak always sounds like that, ay? It does seem if you say anything that might possibly considered ďrightĒ or ďleftĒ, the taglines come out, though. Annoying as Iím an Independent who floats both sides, depending on the issue.

CindyBS

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2018, 03:47:41 PM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

They may also disagree with her on issues, but they disagree with lots of people on issues and yet don't build entire campaigns around hatred for those people.  There are other high profile powerful democrats they don't like, who still don't rise to the same level of vitriol.  The only distinguishing feature of Pelosi, and the reason she is a useful crowbar during campaign seasons, is that lots and lots of Americans still think it is immoral for a woman to have power over men.  If she had a penis, we'd have an entirety different narrative.


Exibit A of this was the special election in OH-12 this past Tuesday.  Ads for Troy Balderson showed O'Conner as a puppet of Pelosi and showed him with photos of Nancy Pelosi, Elizabeth Warren, and Hillary Clinton.   Hillary Clinton is a private citizen and Elizabeth Warren is in a totally different chamber of the Congress.   I notice they did not tie him to liberal men like Ted Lieu, Cory Booker, Sherrod Brown, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, etc. 

https://youtu.be/WQi2flVVzFU

I only saw a handful of ads since I am not anywhere near the district so I don't know how typical this was of the messaging, but this sexist narrative obviously resonates on some level for Republican voters. 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 04:02:53 PM by CindyBS »

robartsd

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2018, 04:18:19 PM »
Citizens have the right to defend themselves across the United States Chris, and Nancy Pelosi has never attempted to prevent them from doing so.  It's completely possible to defend ones self without an M4, a magazine with 20 bullets, and a concealed carry license.
If you feel that you need to carry a gun for self defense, you can't do that in Pelosi's home state unless you are a resident of the state and can convince your sheriff or police chief to issue a concealed carry permit. Although California provides no other legal way to bear arms, according to the 9th circuit the requirements for getting a concealed weapon permit is not a 2nd amendment issue. Many on the right believe Pelosi is really completely anti-gun and her statements are merely politically calculated to move in that direction as practically as possible.

EricL

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2018, 05:08:58 PM »
Iím not a fan of Pelosiís 2nd Amendment position. Iíd love to see someone younger in her position (and younger across the board in both parties).  But for me, neither is a deal breaker. 

Iíd like to see a serious issue about her raised if such exists. Republicans hating her isnít enough. If she dropped out tomorrow theyíd jump at digging/making up dirt on her replacement ASAP.  And no, having a penis wouldnít help in the least.  The Democratic Partyís anti gun posturing is such that no replacement chosen will have a different position. 

sol

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2018, 05:25:20 PM »
no replacement chosen will have a different position.

As I stated above, whoever replaces Pelosi some day is going to be more liberal, not less.  Republicans should be campaigning to keep her (and every other septuagenarian in congress) around as long as possible.  Old people have old policies.  Conservatives love old policies.

scottish

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2018, 05:28:11 PM »
The twists and turns you take to try and make your point are absurd.  Nancy Pelosi is in favor of regular citizens not having the right to defend themselves, which enjoying protection that is unavailable to regular citizens.  I find that offensive. 

Have a shitty weekend.

That's pretty normal in all of the other G8 countries.    Senior government officials are protected by armed security and their citizens aren't allowed to carry concealed weapons around.   (Not sure about the UK though, they may be protected by unarmed security...)

Kris

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2018, 05:30:06 PM »
The twists and turns you take to try and make your point are absurd.  Nancy Pelosi is in favor of regular citizens not having the right to defend themselves, which enjoying protection that is unavailable to regular citizens.  I find that offensive. 

Have a shitty weekend.

That's pretty normal in all of the other G8 countries.    Senior government officials are protected by armed security and their citizens aren't allowed to carry concealed weapons around.   (Not sure about the UK though, they may be protected by unarmed security...)

Yeah... I can never figure out why people say it's hypocritical for government officials to have actual protection. It's just... kinda ridiculous to compare armed security for public figures who put themselves out there and are at risk as a result, with some dude who wants to open carry an AR.

tralfamadorian

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2018, 06:18:00 PM »
Unlike Hitlary that could not control her emotions...

Name calling- check!
Bad grammar- check!
Sexism- check!


px4shooter

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2018, 08:20:27 PM »
Unlike Hitlary that could not control her emotions...

Name calling- check!
Bad grammar- check!
Sexism- check!

How is it sexist?

Because I don't like a person that happens to be a woman, that is sexist? Why not make it racist too?

And my personal dealings with that buffoon makes it even worse!! Oh wait, did I just call her another name?

Kris

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2018, 08:28:33 PM »
Unlike Hitlary that could not control her emotions...

Name calling- check!
Bad grammar- check!
Sexism- check!

How is it sexist?

Because I don't like a person that happens to be a woman, that is sexist? Why not make it racist too?

And my personal dealings with that buffoon makes it even worse!! Oh wait, did I just call her another name?

I get that you donít know.

That doesnít make it less so.


PizzaSteve

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2018, 08:57:19 PM »
I havent read the whole thread, just OP, so sorry if old ground, but it seems to me that much of the rhetoric is a thinly disguised sexist reaction to a woman with power, similar to Hillary hate, IMHO. 

As men with power age they become 'distiguished', while women with power who sustain an effort to hold it tend to be called 'old, tired, sour.'  We want a 'fresh face.'

If people are sick of Pelosi it may be worth considering if it is her policies or your reaction to the media narrative around her. It is a well worn game to disenfranchise women with power who advocate for the women's perspective (e.g. safe world for children, anti aggressive warlike stances, violence metaphors, aid to suffering people vs self-reliance/tough it out attitude toward poverty, etc.).  Just my opinion, but words I am reading sound just like how my suffregette great grandmother faced less than a few generations ago.  They were uppity B***ches for daring to want a vote.

PS. Lived in Japan, and nothing nicer than a society without guns, even police dont carry.  Felt so much safer.  BLM movement would be complaining about injuries from agressive arrests, not deaths.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 09:04:54 PM by PizzaSteve »

Paul der Krake

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2018, 09:01:50 PM »
He advocates that only cops should have [most] guns, which is really easy to do when you always have a cop with a gun with you.  The rest of us great unwashed have no cop with us all the time, so we might find it convenient to have a gun.  "You don't need a gun for security" is pretty hollow from guys who are always followed around by guys with guns for security.
Do you not understand that despite what our mommies told us, we are in fact not all equal in how much we matter, and it's totally reasonable for high profile politicians to have significantly superior protection than complete nobodies like you and I?

sol

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2018, 09:24:57 PM »
it's totally reasonable for high profile politicians to have significantly superior protection than complete nobodies like you and I?

For many Americans, it's is precisely the ability to purchase efficient murder machines that soothes their insecurity over being a complete nobody.  They need guns to feel powerful, to feel like they matter, to give them purchase in a world where they otherwise have none. 

Especially in cases where they feel that their demographic is losing social status over time as minorities and women become less oppressed, the desire to reassert that authority by wielding firearms only grows.  See:  George Zimmerman (vigilante who shot a black kid), Stephen Paddock (Trump fanatic and anti-government conspiracy theorist behind Las Vegas shooting), Jared Lee Loughner (shot Gabbie Giffords because she was a woman), etc.  These people used guns to fight back against liberalizing American values.

These were crazy people, I grant, and they arguably did horrible things for complex reasons beyond the one I've highlighted here.  But I still think Americans have way too much of a raging hard-on for guns, as part of our twisted sense of moral superiority and toxic masculinity.  Guns are not powerful!  You cannot win a battle of force with the US government, no matter what guns you own.  Democracy is the only way to exert power, but it's collective power shared by everyone and aging middle class white voters without a college education are pretty damn unhappy with that.  They're not used to sharing.