Author Topic: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?  (Read 3464 times)

nereo

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What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« on: August 10, 2018, 06:09:22 AM »
As the midterms are gearing up one of the central stategies of the GOP is to make every race about preventing 'Nancy Pelosi and her liberal agenda." Even among Dems there's an open discussion about whether she's a "burden" to the party, and every Dem is being asked whether they would vote for her as speaker, should they retake the majority.

I'm having a hard time understanding why Pelosi is so vilified. What, specifically, do people hate so much about her?
I've asked similar questions of my staunch conservative family members and they just give me this look as if I had asked what was so bad about Hitler, and they toss out words like "liberal" and "California" and then involuntarily shudder at the thought.

I know she was the first female speaker, and her gender factors in some, but it seems to be more than that.
- Thoughts/Opinions?

Miss Piggy

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 07:24:25 AM »
I'm sort of a "middle of the road" voter, much less of a Republican than I used to be. I'm just kind of sick of Nancy Pelosi. I'm ready for some fresh, young "blood" in both parties. Nancy has simply been around wayyyyyyy too long for my taste. Too entrenched. Too old school. But I don't think that's why many people don't like her.

jezebel

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 07:29:18 AM »
I'm sort of a "middle of the road" voter, much less of a Republican than I used to be. I'm just kind of sick of Nancy Pelosi. I'm ready for some fresh, young "blood" in both parties. Nancy has simply been around wayyyyyyy too long for my taste. Too entrenched. Too old school. But I don't think that's why many people don't like her.

In what way is she too old school?  In trenched in what?  I am struggling to understand this as well.

jrhampt

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 08:03:34 AM »
Nothing is wrong with Nancy Pelosi, unless it’s the same thing that was wrong with Hillary.  Female, effective, ambitious, experienced politician.  I have no problem with someone who is qualified for the job, but some people label that “establishment” and prefer a novice for some reason.  I haven’t figured it out.

FIRE@50

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2018, 08:13:22 AM »
I don't have any problem with her specifically other than I don't like her personality. I don't know much about her stance on many issues.

I do support some more age discrimination as well as term limits in the federal government. She of course would get caught in that net.

Drain the swamp and stuff.

Fireball

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 08:17:18 AM »
Nothing wrong with her really. Just a face that the right has made it a point to turn into the boogeyman to get their base riled up.  If she retired tomorrow, they would leave her alone and vilify the next Dem in line.

Most Dems I know who want her gone only feel that way because they're tired of hearing the negativity from the Rs. Which is kinda sad.

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 08:26:45 AM »
Nancy Pelosi is an outspoken critic of the 2A.  She also comes across as the worst kind of limousine liberal, the "do as I say not as I do" with her "you shouldn't have 2A rights but I have armed guards at all times" and pushing heavy environmental regulations while flying around on a private jet. 

Jrr85

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 08:30:38 AM »
As the midterms are gearing up one of the central stategies of the GOP is to make every race about preventing 'Nancy Pelosi and her liberal agenda." Even among Dems there's an open discussion about whether she's a "burden" to the party, and every Dem is being asked whether they would vote for her as speaker, should they retake the majority.

I'm having a hard time understanding why Pelosi is so vilified. What, specifically, do people hate so much about her?
I've asked similar questions of my staunch conservative family members and they just give me this look as if I had asked what was so bad about Hitler, and they toss out words like "liberal" and "California" and then involuntarily shudder at the thought.

I know she was the first female speaker, and her gender factors in some, but it seems to be more than that.
- Thoughts/Opinions?

From the left, she's not left enough.  Even though she has moved left with the party, in a two party system, a speaker/minority leader is going to piss off  a good chunk of the party because they act in a way that can build a coalition within their party.  In the past, the pork process calmed a lot of that.  They might not have been happy, but they wanted their pork, so they generally didn't publicly trash their party's leadership.  Now, ear marking being greatly diminished takes away some of the oil that greased the system in the past, and also many on the far left are more worried about social justice issues and more progressive tax rates than getting their share of pork, and on the right, while while they still want their pork, it puts them in cross fire between their donors and some of their important voting blocs. 

That's why you see people on the right bitch about McConnell.  IN reality, he's been extremely good on some things (free speech in particular) and a little weak on others, but people in his party to the right of him just remember the things he's weak on and complain about him.  That's why you see the leadership role in the house as less desirable.  yes, it's still a way to amass power and influence, but it also makes you a target, and some many representatives would rather have a lesser role for longer rather than risk getting bounced because they can't keep people happy in their leadership role.

ETA:  From the right, she's just a visible, powerful politician that is much further to the left than them.  And like all the people that have to make tradeoffs to build a coalition, she is an easy target as a hypocrite.  Plus her husband getting rich (or just richer?) makes them an easy target as being corrupt.  I don't think anybody knows which members of congress/senate are getting rich legitimately versus trading on their office, but there are probably more of the latter than the former, so it's predictable that people presume the worst and don't care to find out the truth for any particular policitian, particularly from the other side of the aisle.
 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 08:35:14 AM by Jrr85 »

FIPurpose

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2018, 08:45:51 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority_in_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives

I think the number one reason is that she was highly vilified for her handling of Obamacare. She made a lot of stupid statements, and I think ended up taking on a lot more of the blame around the passage of Obamacare than Obama did.

But she's also been in the house for over 30 years. This is something that Democrats need to fix. Out of the 72 congressmen that have been there for >20 years, 42 are D's (58%).

The Senate though is a whole other ball game. Just about every senator has been around way too long. A lot won their senate seat after 10-20 years in the House or as a governor. You could say the hatred that is spewed towards Nancy Pelosi in many respects is done from the Left on Mitch McConnell. They've both played bad politics as their respective heads of Congress and both have been around since Regan.

There may be more trash cable news for the R side, but D's read a lot more online magazines where the McConnell trashing happens. (And I think there is less Pelosi bashing in R online publications).

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2018, 08:51:48 AM »
Nancy Pelosi is an outspoken critic of the 2A.  She also comes across as the worst kind of limousine liberal, the "do as I say not as I do" with her "you shouldn't have 2A rights but I have armed guards at all times" and pushing heavy environmental regulations while flying around on a private jet.

My understanding is that Pelosi's position on the 2nd amendment is that there should be better background checks for buying a firearm, and that she supports assault weapons bans.  I suspect that the people providing her security aren't using assault weapons, and have had extensive background checks . . . so I'm not sure how this is 'do as I say, not as I do'.  Could you elaborate on this point?

I think it's sort of a legitimate argument regarding flying though.  Pelosi did use the same private jet provided to all speakers of the house, and it would have been more environmentally friendly of her to teleconference into meetings.  I suspect that politically this would have serious repercussions though . . . which is why every politician in Washington regularly flies back and forth.  I'd love to see less transportation waste from the government, but am not entirely sure how that would work.  Train and automobile transportation is likely to be too slow.  Do you have any suggestions?

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2018, 08:58:54 AM »
Nancy Pelosi is an outspoken critic of the 2A.  She also comes across as the worst kind of limousine liberal, the "do as I say not as I do" with her "you shouldn't have 2A rights but I have armed guards at all times" and pushing heavy environmental regulations while flying around on a private jet.

My understanding is that Pelosi's position on the 2nd amendment is that there should be better background checks for buying a firearm, and that she supports assault weapons bans.  I suspect that the people providing her security aren't using assault weapons, and have had extensive background checks . . . so I'm not sure how this is 'do as I say, not as I do'.  Could you elaborate on this point?

Your understanding is wrong.  She is for things like suing gun makers when their guns are used illegally (trying to force them into bankruptcy, a backdoor effort to nullify 2A), she is against state reciprocity laws, and she is against "assault rifles" and high capacity magazines.  I guarantee that yes, she probably is protected by "assault rifles" (almost every police force in the country has AR-15s, guarantee they're using them to protect her home/office even if they aren't carrying them out in town) and absolutely she is protected by "high capacity magazines" (most full size 9MM pistols have a 17 round capacity). 

Quote
I think it's sort of a legitimate argument regarding flying though.  Pelosi did use the same private jet provided to all speakers of the house, and it would have been more environmentally friendly of her to teleconference into meetings.  I suspect that politically this would have serious repercussions though . . . which is why every politician in Washington regularly flies back and forth.  I'd love to see less transportation waste from the government, but am not entirely sure how that would work.  Train and automobile transportation is likely to be too slow.  Do you have any suggestions?

Fly commercial.

sol

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2018, 09:07:34 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

They may also disagree with her on issues, but they disagree with lots of people on issues and yet don't build entire campaigns around hatred for those people.  There are other high profile powerful democrats they don't like, who still don't rise to the same level of vitriol.  The only distinguishing feature of Pelosi, and the reason she is a useful crowbar during campaign seasons, is that lots and lots of Americans still think it is immoral for a woman to have power over men.  If she had a penis, we'd have an entirety different narrative.

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2018, 09:21:41 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

They may also disagree with her on issues, but they disagree with lots of people on issues and yet don't build entire campaigns around hatred for those people.  There are other high profile powerful democrats they don't like, who still don't rise to the same level of vitriol...

I agree with this.

The only distinguishing feature of Pelosi, and the reason she is a useful crowbar during campaign seasons, is that lots and lots of Americans still think it is immoral for a woman to have power over men.

You lose me here. I think the bias against powerful female politicians is subconscious for most people, not an explicit belief that "it is immoral for a woman to have power over men". I know a lot of men who despise Pelosi and Hillary, yet have happily worked for women. But, the women they worked for are actual people that they know on a personal level, not abstract caricatures of everything that's wrong with the opposing party, which is basically what Pelosi represents to many people (thanks to a decade of attacks and unsubtle persuasion).

FIPurpose

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2018, 09:29:57 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

They may also disagree with her on issues, but they disagree with lots of people on issues and yet don't build entire campaigns around hatred for those people.  There are other high profile powerful democrats they don't like, who still don't rise to the same level of vitriol.  The only distinguishing feature of Pelosi, and the reason she is a useful crowbar during campaign seasons, is that lots and lots of Americans still think it is immoral for a woman to have power over men.  If she had a penis, we'd have an entirety different narrative.

I'm going to slightly disagree because I remember Pelosi was always paired with Reid in the commercials at the time. Reid has since retired. They put a little bit on Schumer now, but he's never really been in power yet, and doesn't have the same name recognition.

Plus D's haven't signaled that she's not going to be the House leader. So it makes sense to attack her this year. Why not hand over the reigns to a no-name high ranking Dem? D's are refusing to make a counter move that would make sense and completely destroy R's messaging. It's the same mistake they made with Hillary, they think they'll be able to win with the same old Dems.

If R's have successfully made a caricature out of your leader, just choose a new leader, there are plenty of them.

GuitarStv

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2018, 09:30:30 AM »
Nancy Pelosi is an outspoken critic of the 2A.  She also comes across as the worst kind of limousine liberal, the "do as I say not as I do" with her "you shouldn't have 2A rights but I have armed guards at all times" and pushing heavy environmental regulations while flying around on a private jet.

My understanding is that Pelosi's position on the 2nd amendment is that there should be better background checks for buying a firearm, and that she supports assault weapons bans.  I suspect that the people providing her security aren't using assault weapons, and have had extensive background checks . . . so I'm not sure how this is 'do as I say, not as I do'.  Could you elaborate on this point?

Your understanding is wrong.  She is for things like suing gun makers when their guns are used illegally (trying to force them into bankruptcy, a backdoor effort to nullify 2A), she is against state reciprocity laws, and she is against "assault rifles" and high capacity magazines.  I guarantee that yes, she probably is protected by "assault rifles" (almost every police force in the country has AR-15s, guarantee they're using them to protect her home/office even if they aren't carrying them out in town) and absolutely she is protected by "high capacity magazines" (most full size 9MM pistols have a 17 round capacity). 

In what way does Nancy Pelosi 'do as I say not as I do' in regards with state reciprocity laws?

Regarding assault weapons, my understanding of Nancy Pelosi's position is that she wants to prevent private ownership of them.  I don't believe she has ever petitioned to remove them from the hands of law enforcement . . . who protect everyone equally.  That's not an inconsistent position.

Pelosi has tried unsuccessfully to prevent sales of high capacity magazines for private use.  It's possible that the security she has uses high capacity magazines, but that would make sense - there's no legislation banning them.

So far, you haven't provided anything that backs up your assertion of hypocrisy.


Quote
I think it's sort of a legitimate argument regarding flying though.  Pelosi did use the same private jet provided to all speakers of the house, and it would have been more environmentally friendly of her to teleconference into meetings.  I suspect that politically this would have serious repercussions though . . . which is why every politician in Washington regularly flies back and forth.  I'd love to see less transportation waste from the government, but am not entirely sure how that would work.  Train and automobile transportation is likely to be too slow.  Do you have any suggestions?

Fly commercial.

Wasn't that your initial complaint that Nancy Pelosi is flying around in planes, which are bad for the environment?

Flying coach is also shit for the environment.  That's why I was asking if you had any suggestions for travel that would be actionable.  If you don't, I'm not sure what the initial complaint was about.




This would seem to leave the entirety of your argument being 'She doesn't support my view of how the second amendment should be treated'.

FIPurpose

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2018, 09:33:28 AM »

Wasn't that your initial complaint that Nancy Pelosi is flying around in planes, which are bad for the environment?

Flying coach is also shit for the environment.  That's why I was asking if you had any suggestions for travel that would be actionable.  If you don't, I'm not sure what the initial complaint was about.


There is definitely an order of magnitude difference between environmental impact of private jet and commercial seats.

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2018, 09:34:46 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

They may also disagree with her on issues, but they disagree with lots of people on issues and yet don't build entire campaigns around hatred for those people.  There are other high profile powerful democrats they don't like, who still don't rise to the same level of vitriol.  The only distinguishing feature of Pelosi, and the reason she is a useful crowbar during campaign seasons, is that lots and lots of Americans still think it is immoral for a woman to have power over men.  If she had a penis, we'd have an entirety different narrative.

I wouldn't even limit this to just Republicans, I think latent sexism towards women in politics is present in most men and lots of women too. I even include myself in that statement; I try to recognize it but I'm sure I have blind spots.

On the other hand, I don't exactly love everything I've read about Pelosi, but I can say the same of a lot of other democrats in congress.

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2018, 09:39:28 AM »
Nancy Pelosi is an outspoken critic of the 2A.  She also comes across as the worst kind of limousine liberal, the "do as I say not as I do" with her "you shouldn't have 2A rights but I have armed guards at all times" and pushing heavy environmental regulations while flying around on a private jet.

My understanding is that Pelosi's position on the 2nd amendment is that there should be better background checks for buying a firearm, and that she supports assault weapons bans.  I suspect that the people providing her security aren't using assault weapons, and have had extensive background checks . . . so I'm not sure how this is 'do as I say, not as I do'.  Could you elaborate on this point?

Your understanding is wrong.  She is for things like suing gun makers when their guns are used illegally (trying to force them into bankruptcy, a backdoor effort to nullify 2A), she is against state reciprocity laws, and she is against "assault rifles" and high capacity magazines.  I guarantee that yes, she probably is protected by "assault rifles" (almost every police force in the country has AR-15s, guarantee they're using them to protect her home/office even if they aren't carrying them out in town) and absolutely she is protected by "high capacity magazines" (most full size 9MM pistols have a 17 round capacity). 

Quote
In what way does Nancy Pelosi 'do as I say not as I do' in regards with state reciprocity laws?

She thinks that private citizens do not have the right to defend themselves when traveling from state to state when she herself enjoys that protection from her security detail.

Quote
Regarding assault weapons, my understanding of Nancy Pelosi's position is that she wants to prevent private ownership of them.  I don't believe she has ever petitioned to remove them from the hands of law enforcement . . . who protect everyone equally.  That's not an inconsistent position.

So she is okay with her own little mini police force using them to protect her, but she is not okay with me using one to protect myself?  That's hypocrisy. 

Quote
Pelosi has tried unsuccessfully to prevent sales of high capacity magazines for private use.  It's possible that the security she has uses high capacity magazines, but that would make sense - there's no legislation banning them.

If she thinks they are so terrible as to be banned, why does she allow them to be used to protect her?  Isn't that like saying "well I don't think people should be allowed to use straws, but as long as they're allowed I'm going to go ahead and use them"?  You don't see any character flaw in that?

Quote
So far, you haven't provided anything that backs up your assertion of hypocrisy.

Using your twisted logic and tiny semantic arguments maybe not, but I think reasonable people can disagree with that statement.  She doesn't want other people to have the same rights she apparently has no problem exercising herself.


Quote
I think it's sort of a legitimate argument regarding flying though.  Pelosi did use the same private jet provided to all speakers of the house, and it would have been more environmentally friendly of her to teleconference into meetings.  I suspect that politically this would have serious repercussions though . . . which is why every politician in Washington regularly flies back and forth.  I'd love to see less transportation waste from the government, but am not entirely sure how that would work.  Train and automobile transportation is likely to be too slow.  Do you have any suggestions?

Fly commercial.

Wasn't that your initial complaint that Nancy Pelosi is flying around in planes, which are bad for the environment?

No.  My complaint was she flies around in PRIVATE planes and then preaches at me that I need to do better for the environment.  I'll put my tiny carbon footprint up against hers any day.  If you recall correctly, she was clamoring for an even bigger plane to fly her around.  Like I said, pure limousine liberal.

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2018, 09:42:46 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 09:44:41 AM by Chris22 »

nereo

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2018, 09:51:23 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

I'm sorry, I don't understand what is hypocritical about giving a speech against gun violence and having trained and armed capitol police there.
He was arguing for more gun controls on the general populace (e.g. background checks and a national registry), not about disarming police forces.

FWIW, Washington DC has a 1,000 foot no-firearms barrier around all planned demonstrations - only law enforcement can carry firearms, and they are required to do so.

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2018, 09:52:21 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

Same reason why Dems didn't like Palin in 2008, being all female in our face, how dare her.

In all honestly, jumping right the ::whatever group:: card is just a cop out.  I can't disagree with or dislike Pelosi just because she's a female and I have some sort of subconscious resentment to that?  That's the bullshit.

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2018, 09:56:18 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

Same reason why Dems didn't like Palin in 2008, being all female in our face, how dare her.

In all honestly, jumping right the ::whatever group:: card is just a cop out.  I can't disagree with or dislike Pelosi just because she's a female and I have some sort of subconscious resentment to that?  That's the bullshit.

Or Betsy DeVos or Sarah Huckabee or the first female to ever run a successful Presidential campaign (didn't hear much about that one in the press did we??), Kellyanne Conway.

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2018, 09:57:46 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

They may also disagree with her on issues, but they disagree with lots of people on issues and yet don't build entire campaigns around hatred for those people.  There are other high profile powerful democrats they don't like, who still don't rise to the same level of vitriol.  The only distinguishing feature of Pelosi, and the reason she is a useful crowbar during campaign seasons, is that lots and lots of Americans still think it is immoral for a woman to have power over men.  If she had a penis, we'd have an entirety different narrative.

I'm going to slightly disagree because I remember Pelosi was always paired with Reid in the commercials at the time. Reid has since retired. They put a little bit on Schumer now, but he's never really been in power yet, and doesn't have the same name recognition.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing.

Pelosi will always be remembered for saying they have to pass Obamacare to find out what's in it.

MasterStache

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2018, 09:59:11 AM »
No.  My complaint was she flies around in PRIVATE planes and then preaches at me that I need to do better for the environment.  I'll put my tiny carbon footprint up against hers any day.  If you recall correctly, she was clamoring for an even bigger plane to fly her around.  Like I said, pure limousine liberal.

But you seem to make it a point of aligning yourself with an entire political party known for dismantling environmental regulations and simply not giving a fuck about the environment. Certainly an obvious double standard. Who cares what she flies around in if you don't care about the environment? 

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2018, 09:59:31 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

I'm sorry, I don't understand what is hypocritical about giving a speech against gun violence and having trained and armed capitol police there.

Capital police weren't "there".  They came to protect him for his speech.  They follow him around and protect him.  So it's real easy to be against private gun ownership when you have your own security that follows you around everywhere you go.  The rest of us DON'T have that, so what are we supposed to do?  It is totally "four legs good, 2 legs better" when you tell everyone else that they shouldn't have the right to do something that you do because you're in charge.

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2018, 10:02:28 AM »
No.  My complaint was she flies around in PRIVATE planes and then preaches at me that I need to do better for the environment.  I'll put my tiny carbon footprint up against hers any day.  If you recall correctly, she was clamoring for an even bigger plane to fly her around.  Like I said, pure limousine liberal.

But you seem to make it a point of aligning yourself with an entire political party known for dismantling environmental regulations and simply not giving a fuck about the environment. Certainly an obvious double standard. Who cares what she flies around in if you don't care about the environment?

Because it's not about what she does, it's about what she believes OTHERS have to do while doing the opposite for herself.  Again, limousine liberal.  She wants to make rules for little people while maintaining the ability to flout those rules herself because power.  Same reason everyone gets all pissed off at Al Gore for his environmental preaching from his massive power-sucking enclave.  Oh, wait, he pays himself indulgences carbon credits, so it's all good :rolleyes:

TrudgingAlong

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2018, 10:02:55 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

Same reason why Dems didn't like Palin in 2008, being all female in our face, how dare her.

In all honestly, jumping right the ::whatever group:: card is just a cop out.  I can't disagree with or dislike Pelosi just because she's a female and I have some sort of subconscious resentment to that?  That's the bullshit.

Or Betsy DeVos or Sarah Huckabee or the first female to ever run a successful Presidential campaign (didn't hear much about that one in the press did we??), Kellyanne Conway.

While there is a tiny bit of truth in this, all of these women do shitty things, so I’d say there are very legitimate reasons to dislike them. Sarah Huckabee in particular is vilified equally as much as her male predecessor was for her position of basically lying for the POTUS. Let’s not turn every dislike about women into: “It’s because they are women.”

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2018, 10:05:02 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

Same reason why Dems didn't like Palin in 2008, being all female in our face, how dare her.

In all honestly, jumping right the ::whatever group:: card is just a cop out.  I can't disagree with or dislike Pelosi just because she's a female and I have some sort of subconscious resentment to that?  That's the bullshit.

Or Betsy DeVos or Sarah Huckabee or the first female to ever run a successful Presidential campaign (didn't hear much about that one in the press did we??), Kellyanne Conway.

While there is a tiny bit of truth in this, all of these women do shitty things, so I’d say there are very legitimate reasons to dislike them. Sarah Huckabee in particular is vilified equally as much as her male predecessor was for her position of basically lying for the POTUS. Let’s not turn every dislike about women into: “It’s because they are women.”

Ah, right, only the Left gets to pull that card, sorry, I'll shut up and color. 

GuitarStv

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2018, 10:05:53 AM »
Nancy Pelosi is an outspoken critic of the 2A.  She also comes across as the worst kind of limousine liberal, the "do as I say not as I do" with her "you shouldn't have 2A rights but I have armed guards at all times" and pushing heavy environmental regulations while flying around on a private jet.

My understanding is that Pelosi's position on the 2nd amendment is that there should be better background checks for buying a firearm, and that she supports assault weapons bans.  I suspect that the people providing her security aren't using assault weapons, and have had extensive background checks . . . so I'm not sure how this is 'do as I say, not as I do'.  Could you elaborate on this point?

Your understanding is wrong.  She is for things like suing gun makers when their guns are used illegally (trying to force them into bankruptcy, a backdoor effort to nullify 2A), she is against state reciprocity laws, and she is against "assault rifles" and high capacity magazines.  I guarantee that yes, she probably is protected by "assault rifles" (almost every police force in the country has AR-15s, guarantee they're using them to protect her home/office even if they aren't carrying them out in town) and absolutely she is protected by "high capacity magazines" (most full size 9MM pistols have a 17 round capacity). 

Quote
In what way does Nancy Pelosi 'do as I say not as I do' in regards with state reciprocity laws?

She thinks that private citizens do not have the right to defend themselves when traveling from state to state when she herself enjoys that protection from her security detail.

Can you provide evidence that she thinks this?  No state prevents citizens from defending themselves.  Are you talking about carrying a concealed weapon across state lines?


Quote
Regarding assault weapons, my understanding of Nancy Pelosi's position is that she wants to prevent private ownership of them.  I don't believe she has ever petitioned to remove them from the hands of law enforcement . . . who protect everyone equally.  That's not an inconsistent position.

So she is okay with her own little mini police force using them to protect her, but she is not okay with me using one to protect myself?  That's hypocrisy. 

You mentioned a police force.  A police force exists to defend all citizens in a country equally.  Now you're confusing government security agents with a police force.  Can you please provide evidence of your assertion that the security defending Nancy Pelosi uses assault weapons?


Quote
Pelosi has tried unsuccessfully to prevent sales of high capacity magazines for private use.  It's possible that the security she has uses high capacity magazines, but that would make sense - there's no legislation banning them.

If she thinks they are so terrible as to be banned, why does she allow them to be used to protect her?  Isn't that like saying "well I don't think people should be allowed to use straws, but as long as they're allowed I'm going to go ahead and use them"?  You don't see any character flaw in that?

Sure, that would be a bit hypocritical I guess.  Do you have evidence that high capacity magazines are used to protect her?  Where are you getting this information?





Quote
I think it's sort of a legitimate argument regarding flying though.  Pelosi did use the same private jet provided to all speakers of the house, and it would have been more environmentally friendly of her to teleconference into meetings.  I suspect that politically this would have serious repercussions though . . . which is why every politician in Washington regularly flies back and forth.  I'd love to see less transportation waste from the government, but am not entirely sure how that would work.  Train and automobile transportation is likely to be too slow.  Do you have any suggestions?

Fly commercial.

Wasn't that your initial complaint that Nancy Pelosi is flying around in planes, which are bad for the environment?[/quote]

No.  My complaint was she flies around in PRIVATE planes and then preaches at me that I need to do better for the environment.  I'll put my tiny carbon footprint up against hers any day.  If you recall correctly, she was clamoring for an even bigger plane to fly her around.  Like I said, pure limousine liberal.

That's not true at all.  There was a period where she was told to use a military plane with particular capabilities by the House Sargent At Arms, which I think is what you're talking about:
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/12/nancy-pelosis-personal-jet/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jet-set-2/
https://www.truthorfiction.com/nancy-pelosi-jet-is-gone/

She also only flew in private planes while she was speaker of the house.  Since holding that post she has in fact flown commercial:  https://www.politico.com/story/2010/11/pelosi-to-fly-commercial-045525.

Yur complaint would seem to be largely unfounded in this case.

TrudgingAlong

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2018, 10:06:07 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

I'm sorry, I don't understand what is hypocritical about giving a speech against gun violence and having trained and armed capitol police there.

Capital police weren't "there".  They came to protect him for his speech.  They follow him around and protect him.  So it's real easy to be against private gun ownership when you have your own security that follows you around everywhere you go.  The rest of us DON'T have that, so what are we supposed to do?  It is totally "four legs good, 2 legs better" when you tell everyone else that they shouldn't have the right to do something that you do because you're in charge.

The rest of us aren’t political targets. In 40 years of life, I’ve yet to feel the need to carry a weapon, although I am concerned about all the untrained yahoos who might whip theirs out in a parking lot and murder someone I love. I see nothing hypocritical about politicians needing armed security.

TrudgingAlong

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2018, 10:06:59 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

Same reason why Dems didn't like Palin in 2008, being all female in our face, how dare her.

In all honestly, jumping right the ::whatever group:: card is just a cop out.  I can't disagree with or dislike Pelosi just because she's a female and I have some sort of subconscious resentment to that?  That's the bullshit.

Or Betsy DeVos or Sarah Huckabee or the first female to ever run a successful Presidential campaign (didn't hear much about that one in the press did we??), Kellyanne Conway.

While there is a tiny bit of truth in this, all of these women do shitty things, so I’d say there are very legitimate reasons to dislike them. Sarah Huckabee in particular is vilified equally as much as her male predecessor was for her position of basically lying for the POTUS. Let’s not turn every dislike about women into: “It’s because they are women.”

Ah, right, only the Left gets to pull that card, sorry, I'll shut up and color.

If that’s what you’d prefer /shrug

MasterStache

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2018, 10:07:40 AM »
No.  My complaint was she flies around in PRIVATE planes and then preaches at me that I need to do better for the environment.  I'll put my tiny carbon footprint up against hers any day.  If you recall correctly, she was clamoring for an even bigger plane to fly her around.  Like I said, pure limousine liberal.

But you seem to make it a point of aligning yourself with an entire political party known for dismantling environmental regulations and simply not giving a fuck about the environment. Certainly an obvious double standard. Who cares what she flies around in if you don't care about the environment?

Because it's not about what she does, it's about what she believes OTHERS have to do while doing the opposite for herself.  Again, limousine liberal.  She wants to make rules for little people while maintaining the ability to flout those rules herself because power.  Same reason everyone gets all pissed off at Al Gore for his environmental preaching from his massive power-sucking enclave.  Oh, wait, he pays himself indulgences carbon credits, so it's all good :rolleyes:

Encouraging people to reduce their carbon footprint aren't rules. I mean this is stupid on it's face. Do you have kids? And do you not encourage your kids to make better choices or do/not do things you are guilty of doing/not doing? That isn't some liberal thing. Pretty sure every fucking human being does it, including yourself. 

FIPurpose

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2018, 10:08:04 AM »
No.  My complaint was she flies around in PRIVATE planes and then preaches at me that I need to do better for the environment.  I'll put my tiny carbon footprint up against hers any day.  If you recall correctly, she was clamoring for an even bigger plane to fly her around.  Like I said, pure limousine liberal.

But you seem to make it a point of aligning yourself with an entire political party known for dismantling environmental regulations and simply not giving a fuck about the environment. Certainly an obvious double standard. Who cares what she flies around in if you don't care about the environment?

Because it's not about what she does, it's about what she believes OTHERS have to do while doing the opposite for herself.  Again, limousine liberal.  She wants to make rules for little people while maintaining the ability to flout those rules herself because power.  Same reason everyone gets all pissed off at Al Gore for his environmental preaching from his massive power-sucking enclave.  Oh, wait, he pays himself indulgences carbon credits, so it's all good :rolleyes:

So your equally against Republicans who want to take away certain tax deductions but continue to claim them while they're still on the books? Saying that society needs to change the playing field is a completely different question from what do I need to do for me know with the rules the way they currently are.

Cromacster

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2018, 10:11:20 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

Same reason why Dems didn't like Palin in 2008, being all female in our face, how dare her.

In all honestly, jumping right the ::whatever group:: card is just a cop out.  I can't disagree with or dislike Pelosi just because she's a female and I have some sort of subconscious resentment to that?  That's the bullshit.

Or Betsy DeVos or Sarah Huckabee or the first female to ever run a successful Presidential campaign (didn't hear much about that one in the press did we??), Kellyanne Conway.

While there is a tiny bit of truth in this, all of these women do shitty things, so I’d say there are very legitimate reasons to dislike them. Sarah Huckabee in particular is vilified equally as much as her male predecessor was for her position of basically lying for the POTUS. Let’s not turn every dislike about women into: “It’s because they are women.”

Ah, right, only the Left gets to pull that card, sorry, I'll shut up and color.

If that’s what you’d prefer /shrug

So you don't see any double standard here?  No empathy for "the other side"?

Dabnasty

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2018, 10:11:53 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

They may also disagree with her on issues, but they disagree with lots of people on issues and yet don't build entire campaigns around hatred for those people.  There are other high profile powerful democrats they don't like, who still don't rise to the same level of vitriol.  The only distinguishing feature of Pelosi, and the reason she is a useful crowbar during campaign seasons, is that lots and lots of Americans still think it is immoral for a woman to have power over men.  If she had a penis, we'd have an entirety different narrative.

I'm going to slightly disagree because I remember Pelosi was always paired with Reid in the commercials at the time. Reid has since retired. They put a little bit on Schumer now, but he's never really been in power yet, and doesn't have the same name recognition.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing.

Pelosi will always be remembered for saying they have to pass Obamacare to find out what's in it.

Which is unfortunate considering what she actually said was
Quote
But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.

Which she further explained
Quote
“the outside groups…were saying ‘it’s about abortion,’ which it never was. ‘It’s about ‘death panels,’’ which it never was. ‘It’s about a job-killer,’ which it creates four million. ‘It’s about increasing the deficit’; well, the main reason to pass it was to decrease the deficit.” Her contention was that the Senate “didn’t have a bill.” And until the Senate produced an actual piece of legislation that could be matched up and debated against what was passed by the House, no one truly knew what would be voted on.

“So, that’s why I was saying we have to pass a bill so we can see so that we can show you what it is and what it isn’t,” Pelosi continued. “It is none of these things. It’s not going to be any of these things.”

The Affordable Care Act had been publicly available for months. Even if she had said this without the context I've provided here, it wouldn't make any sense. But her critics never acknowledged that.

TrudgingAlong

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2018, 10:18:59 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

Same reason why Dems didn't like Palin in 2008, being all female in our face, how dare her.

In all honestly, jumping right the ::whatever group:: card is just a cop out.  I can't disagree with or dislike Pelosi just because she's a female and I have some sort of subconscious resentment to that?  That's the bullshit.

Or Betsy DeVos or Sarah Huckabee or the first female to ever run a successful Presidential campaign (didn't hear much about that one in the press did we??), Kellyanne Conway.

While there is a tiny bit of truth in this, all of these women do shitty things, so I’d say there are very legitimate reasons to dislike them. Sarah Huckabee in particular is vilified equally as much as her male predecessor was for her position of basically lying for the POTUS. Let’s not turn every dislike about women into: “It’s because they are women.”

Ah, right, only the Left gets to pull that card, sorry, I'll shut up and color.

If that’s what you’d prefer /shrug

So you don't see any double standard here?  No empathy for "the other side"?

No, I don’t see a double standard. I did say he had a tiny point, but really only because he included  Kellyanne Conway. He had to include a bunch of women who have done really shitty things people are opposed to. Kellyanne was disliked and I suspect mostly because she was a female supporting Trump. So, yes, it happens on both sides.

I’m a female and well aware of bias against us, but just like people don’t like being called racist all the time for things that aren’t, I don’t think we should be including examples of people disliking women when there is a valid reason for it. I do understand if you like what these women do, you may not understand the other side’s issues with it, though.

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2018, 10:26:22 AM »
Can you provide evidence that she thinks this?  No state prevents citizens from defending themselves.  Are you talking about carrying a concealed weapon across state lines?

Yes, I am talking about carrying a concealed weapon across state lines.  There is currently a proposal to require states to recognize other states' concealed carry licenses, the same way they recognize other states' driver's licenses.  Pelosi is very much against this.  So yes, my home state in particular will not recognize any other state's CCW, so it does prevent you from defending yourself in IL unless you are an IL resident and procure an IL CCW permit. 

Quote
You mentioned a police force.  A police force exists to defend all citizens in a country equally.  Now you're confusing government security agents with a police force.  Can you please provide evidence of your assertion that the security defending Nancy Pelosi uses assault weapons?

Often times, security of dignitaries is partly or wholly farmed out to local police forces.  So if Nancy shows up to my neighborhood, and they stick three local cops out in front of her house, they are not protecting her "equally" like they protect me, because they don't sit out in front of my house.  It's security dedicated to her.  And since almost all local cops have an AR-15 in their car, yes, she is protected by assault weapons.  Can I "prove" it?  I dunno, probably not, but Google "weapons used by the Secret Service" or "weapons used by local police".  See assault weapons on there?  See automatic weapons on there? 


Quote
Sure, that would be a bit hypocritical I guess.  Do you have evidence that high capacity magazines are used to protect her?  Where are you getting this information?

Where am I getting this information?  https://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com/popular-guns-for-law-enforcement/

The most popular weapons are Glock pistols and similar pistols.  Almost any full-size semi automatic is going to have a "high capacity" magazine.  Unless she goes out of her way to ensure everyone on her detail only carries revolvers or 1911s or compact pistols, she's protected by high capacity magazines.   

Quote
I think it's sort of a legitimate argument regarding flying though.  Pelosi did use the same private jet provided to all speakers of the house, and it would have been more environmentally friendly of her to teleconference into meetings.  I suspect that politically this would have serious repercussions though . . . which is why every politician in Washington regularly flies back and forth.  I'd love to see less transportation waste from the government, but am not entirely sure how that would work.  Train and automobile transportation is likely to be too slow.  Do you have any suggestions?

Fly commercial.

Wasn't that your initial complaint that Nancy Pelosi is flying around in planes, which are bad for the environment?[/quote]

No.  My complaint was she flies around in PRIVATE planes and then preaches at me that I need to do better for the environment.  I'll put my tiny carbon footprint up against hers any day.  If you recall correctly, she was clamoring for an even bigger plane to fly her around.  Like I said, pure limousine liberal.

That's not true at all.  There was a period where she was told to use a military plane with particular capabilities by the House Sargent At Arms, which I think is what you're talking about:
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/12/nancy-pelosis-personal-jet/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jet-set-2/
https://www.truthorfiction.com/nancy-pelosi-jet-is-gone/

She also only flew in private planes while she was speaker of the house.  Since holding that post she has in fact flown commercial:  https://www.politico.com/story/2010/11/pelosi-to-fly-commercial-045525.

Yur complaint would seem to be largely unfounded in this case.
[/quote]  Okay dude, whatever. 

Cromacster

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2018, 10:27:05 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

Same reason why Dems didn't like Palin in 2008, being all female in our face, how dare her.

In all honestly, jumping right the ::whatever group:: card is just a cop out.  I can't disagree with or dislike Pelosi just because she's a female and I have some sort of subconscious resentment to that?  That's the bullshit.

Or Betsy DeVos or Sarah Huckabee or the first female to ever run a successful Presidential campaign (didn't hear much about that one in the press did we??), Kellyanne Conway.

While there is a tiny bit of truth in this, all of these women do shitty things, so I’d say there are very legitimate reasons to dislike them. Sarah Huckabee in particular is vilified equally as much as her male predecessor was for her position of basically lying for the POTUS. Let’s not turn every dislike about women into: “It’s because they are women.”

Ah, right, only the Left gets to pull that card, sorry, I'll shut up and color.

If that’s what you’d prefer /shrug

So you don't see any double standard here?  No empathy for "the other side"?

No, I don’t see a double standard. I did say he had a tiny point, but really only because he included  Kellyanne Conway. He had to include a bunch of women who have done really shitty things people are opposed to. Kellyanne was disliked and I suspect mostly because she was a female supporting Trump. So, yes, it happens on both sides.

I’m a female and well aware of bias against us, but just like people don’t like being called racist all the time for things that aren’t, I don’t think we should be including examples of people disliking women when there is a valid reason for it. I do understand if you like what these women do, you may not understand the other side’s issues with it, though.

Exactly!  Someone on the right feels exactly the same you do! They way they see it Nancy has done some "really shitty things" and they have valid reasons for disliking her, in their point of view.  Just as you do with the women being discussed.  Empathy!


Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2018, 10:27:37 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

I'm sorry, I don't understand what is hypocritical about giving a speech against gun violence and having trained and armed capitol police there.

Capital police weren't "there".  They came to protect him for his speech.  They follow him around and protect him.  So it's real easy to be against private gun ownership when you have your own security that follows you around everywhere you go.  The rest of us DON'T have that, so what are we supposed to do?  It is totally "four legs good, 2 legs better" when you tell everyone else that they shouldn't have the right to do something that you do because you're in charge.

The rest of us aren’t political targets. In 40 years of life, I’ve yet to feel the need to carry a weapon, although I am concerned about all the untrained yahoos who might whip theirs out in a parking lot and murder someone I love. I see nothing hypocritical about politicians needing armed security.

I'm not a political target, but does that mean I can't be any kind of target?  What about a battered woman who wants to carry a gun to protect herself from an abusive ex?  She doesn't get to protect herself? 

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2018, 10:28:52 AM »
No.  My complaint was she flies around in PRIVATE planes and then preaches at me that I need to do better for the environment.  I'll put my tiny carbon footprint up against hers any day.  If you recall correctly, she was clamoring for an even bigger plane to fly her around.  Like I said, pure limousine liberal.

But you seem to make it a point of aligning yourself with an entire political party known for dismantling environmental regulations and simply not giving a fuck about the environment. Certainly an obvious double standard. Who cares what she flies around in if you don't care about the environment?

Because it's not about what she does, it's about what she believes OTHERS have to do while doing the opposite for herself.  Again, limousine liberal.  She wants to make rules for little people while maintaining the ability to flout those rules herself because power.  Same reason everyone gets all pissed off at Al Gore for his environmental preaching from his massive power-sucking enclave.  Oh, wait, he pays himself indulgences carbon credits, so it's all good :rolleyes:

So your equally against Republicans who want to take away certain tax deductions but continue to claim them while they're still on the books? Saying that society needs to change the playing field is a completely different question from what do I need to do for me know with the rules the way they currently are.

Only if those tax deductions are something only available to them as a privilege of office.  Using something available to EVERYONE while being against it is different than using something only available to YOU while being against its availability to everyone else.

FIPurpose

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2018, 10:36:51 AM »

Which is unfortunate considering what she actually said was
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But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.

Which she further explained
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“the outside groups…were saying ‘it’s about abortion,’ which it never was. ‘It’s about ‘death panels,’’ which it never was. ‘It’s about a job-killer,’ which it creates four million. ‘It’s about increasing the deficit’; well, the main reason to pass it was to decrease the deficit.” Her contention was that the Senate “didn’t have a bill.” And until the Senate produced an actual piece of legislation that could be matched up and debated against what was passed by the House, no one truly knew what would be voted on.

“So, that’s why I was saying we have to pass a bill so we can see so that we can show you what it is and what it isn’t,” Pelosi continued. “It is none of these things. It’s not going to be any of these things.”

The Affordable Care Act had been publicly available for months. Even if she had said this without the context I've provided here, it wouldn't make any sense. But her critics never acknowledged that.

I've honestly never read an explanation to the statement, which does exonerate her to an extent. Politics does not usually give room for context that is longer than 30 seconds. But her statement as is, wasn't well-formed. Saying that you have to pass a bill to prove that what detractors are saying is false is still a bad way at setting policy.

GuitarStv

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2018, 10:50:09 AM »
Can you provide evidence that she thinks this?  No state prevents citizens from defending themselves.  Are you talking about carrying a concealed weapon across state lines?

Yes, I am talking about carrying a concealed weapon across state lines.  There is currently a proposal to require states to recognize other states' concealed carry licenses, the same way they recognize other states' driver's licenses.  Pelosi is very much against this.  So yes, my home state in particular will not recognize any other state's CCW, so it does prevent you from defending yourself in IL unless you are an IL resident and procure an IL CCW permit. 

OK.  Good.  Now we're getting somewhere.

You admit that nobody's right to protect him/herself is infringed upon . . . and that any private citizen has a legal path to do so regardless of reciprocity of concealed carry laws or not.  Which also means that Pelosi is not being hypocritical.

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You mentioned a police force.  A police force exists to defend all citizens in a country equally.  Now you're confusing government security agents with a police force.  Can you please provide evidence of your assertion that the security defending Nancy Pelosi uses assault weapons?

Often times, security of dignitaries is partly or wholly farmed out to local police forces.  So if Nancy shows up to my neighborhood, and they stick three local cops out in front of her house, they are not protecting her "equally" like they protect me, because they don't sit out in front of my house.  It's security dedicated to her.  And since almost all local cops have an AR-15 in their car, yes, she is protected by assault weapons.  Can I "prove" it?  I dunno, probably not, but Google "weapons used by the Secret Service" or "weapons used by local police".  See assault weapons on there?  See automatic weapons on there? 

OK.  So, we have no evidence of your claim that assault weapons are used to protect Pelosi, or that local police are used instead of dedicated government security.

But let's assume for the sake of argument that local police are used, and that the local police happen to have assault weapons . . . then so what?  They're local police.  The same police who protect you, are protecting her.  Your argument is that she's being protected in a special way?  OK.  But if you were to have a death threat against you, you could call the police station and get an officer to watch over you for a few nights too.  Where is the hypocrisy here?


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Sure, that would be a bit hypocritical I guess.  Do you have evidence that high capacity magazines are used to protect her?  Where are you getting this information?

Where am I getting this information?  https://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com/popular-guns-for-law-enforcement/

The most popular weapons are Glock pistols and similar pistols.  Almost any full-size semi automatic is going to have a "high capacity" magazine.  Unless she goes out of her way to ensure everyone on her detail only carries revolvers or 1911s or compact pistols, she's protected by high capacity magazines.

If she's being protected by police (as you've just argued), then there's no problem . . . since she has never said that law enforcement should be denied high capacity magazines.  If she's being protected by government security, then it's possible that high capacity magazines are being used for protection and this is protection that the average person wouldn't have access to at the local gun store if a measure that Pelosi supported had passed (which it didn't).

Either way, this really seems like an awful stretch to claim hypocrisy . . . but sure, if it makes you happy . . . I guess that could be viewed as hypocritical?


Quote
No.  My complaint was she flies around in PRIVATE planes and then preaches at me that I need to do better for the environment.  I'll put my tiny carbon footprint up against hers any day.  If you recall correctly, she was clamoring for an even bigger plane to fly her around.  Like I said, pure limousine liberal.

That's not true at all.  There was a period where she was told to use a military plane with particular capabilities by the House Sargent At Arms, which I think is what you're talking about:
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/12/nancy-pelosis-personal-jet/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jet-set-2/
https://www.truthorfiction.com/nancy-pelosi-jet-is-gone/

She also only flew in private planes while she was speaker of the house.  Since holding that post she has in fact flown commercial:  https://www.politico.com/story/2010/11/pelosi-to-fly-commercial-045525.

Yur complaint would seem to be largely unfounded in this case.
  Okay dude, whatever.

I'm glad that we're in agreement then.





So, again . . . to summarize your objections.  Nancy Pelosi is in support of gun control so you don't like her.  You also believe that it's hypocritical that she has a government provided security detail who may or may not use firearms that in the past Pelosi has argued should be restricted for private citizens.

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2018, 11:08:52 AM »
The twists and turns you take to try and make your point are absurd.  Nancy Pelosi is in favor of regular citizens not having the right to defend themselves, which enjoying protection that is unavailable to regular citizens.  I find that offensive. 

Have a shitty weekend.

Kris

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2018, 11:23:37 AM »
I think Pelosi has been demonized to death by the right.

The general argument I hear out of people trying to explain why she's so ultra-heinous, is basically that she's super, super Democrat-y.

And there's another thing but I won't say it because no one's gonna admit it anyway.

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2018, 11:26:35 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

I'm sorry, I don't understand what is hypocritical about giving a speech against gun violence and having trained and armed capitol police there.

Capital police weren't "there".  They came to protect him for his speech.  They follow him around and protect him.  So it's real easy to be against private gun ownership when you have your own security that follows you around everywhere you go.  The rest of us DON'T have that, so what are we supposed to do?  It is totally "four legs good, 2 legs better" when you tell everyone else that they shouldn't have the right to do something that you do because you're in charge.

But none of this is hypocritical. Sanders advocates for tighter gun restrictions, background checks, etc.  He's not advocating for disarming the police and law enforcement agencies.

A speech in a public venue where the only people who have guns are the Capitol Police fits squarely with what he advocates.

You obviously disagree with his stance, but there's no hypocrisy.

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2018, 11:32:04 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

I'm sorry, I don't understand what is hypocritical about giving a speech against gun violence and having trained and armed capitol police there.

Capital police weren't "there".  They came to protect him for his speech.  They follow him around and protect him.  So it's real easy to be against private gun ownership when you have your own security that follows you around everywhere you go.  The rest of us DON'T have that, so what are we supposed to do?  It is totally "four legs good, 2 legs better" when you tell everyone else that they shouldn't have the right to do something that you do because you're in charge.

But none of this is hypocritical. Sanders advocates for tighter gun restrictions, background checks, etc.  He's not advocating for disarming the police and law enforcement agencies.

A speech in a public venue where the only people who have guns are the Capitol Police fits squarely with what he advocates.

You obviously disagree with his stance, but there's no hypocrisy.

He advocates that only cops should have [most] guns, which is really easy to do when you always have a cop with a gun with you.  The rest of us great unwashed have no cop with us all the time, so we might find it convenient to have a gun.  "You don't need a gun for security" is pretty hollow from guys who are always followed around by guys with guns for security.

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2018, 11:39:14 AM »
You have to start from the baseline that almost no one in Congress is popular outside of their own district/state. I couldn't find more than a handful of Members of Congress that I like or would be excited to vote for. Also, the leader of the enemy will always be the main target of criticism.

This ongoing gun debate is silly. Elected leaders will always need armed protection for as long as gun activists keep fighting to make sure it is legal for homicidal people to freely own guns.

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2018, 11:39:48 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

I'm sorry, I don't understand what is hypocritical about giving a speech against gun violence and having trained and armed capitol police there.

Capital police weren't "there".  They came to protect him for his speech.  They follow him around and protect him.  So it's real easy to be against private gun ownership when you have your own security that follows you around everywhere you go.  The rest of us DON'T have that, so what are we supposed to do?  It is totally "four legs good, 2 legs better" when you tell everyone else that they shouldn't have the right to do something that you do because you're in charge.

But none of this is hypocritical. Sanders advocates for tighter gun restrictions, background checks, etc.  He's not advocating for disarming the police and law enforcement agencies.

A speech in a public venue where the only people who have guns are the Capitol Police fits squarely with what he advocates.

You obviously disagree with his stance, but there's no hypocrisy.

He advocates that only cops should have [most] guns, which is really easy to do when you always have a cop with a gun with you.  The rest of us great unwashed have no cop with us all the time, so we might find it convenient to have a gun.  "You don't need a gun for security" is pretty hollow from guys who are always followed around by guys with guns for security.

Sanders does not support the disarming of all citizens, so I'm not sure where you're getting that information

Background checks and tighter restrictions != Disarming of citizens.

It's weird that people with mental health problems are able to get guns, shoot up large crowds of people, and then their right to get guns are consistently defended by the right. The conflation of better restrictions and doing away with the second amendment is a terrible, terrible slippery slope argument.

Chris22

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2018, 11:53:50 AM »
There is one very specific thing wrong with Pelosi, in the eyes of the GOP: she doesn't have a penis.  Everything else is just an excuse or an addition to this single problem.

That's bullshit. 

Ask the same question about any number of male Dems (Schumer, Bloomberg, whomever) and I'll give you the same answer. 

I posted this (or something similar) on Bernie when he pulled the same thing:

https://truthfeednews.com/ultimate-hypocrite-bernie-delivers-speech-at-anti-gun-rally-with-heavily-armed-guards/

I'm sorry, I don't understand what is hypocritical about giving a speech against gun violence and having trained and armed capitol police there.

Capital police weren't "there".  They came to protect him for his speech.  They follow him around and protect him.  So it's real easy to be against private gun ownership when you have your own security that follows you around everywhere you go.  The rest of us DON'T have that, so what are we supposed to do?  It is totally "four legs good, 2 legs better" when you tell everyone else that they shouldn't have the right to do something that you do because you're in charge.

But none of this is hypocritical. Sanders advocates for tighter gun restrictions, background checks, etc.  He's not advocating for disarming the police and law enforcement agencies.

A speech in a public venue where the only people who have guns are the Capitol Police fits squarely with what he advocates.

You obviously disagree with his stance, but there's no hypocrisy.

He advocates that only cops should have [most] guns, which is really easy to do when you always have a cop with a gun with you.  The rest of us great unwashed have no cop with us all the time, so we might find it convenient to have a gun.  "You don't need a gun for security" is pretty hollow from guys who are always followed around by guys with guns for security.

Sanders does not support the disarming of all citizens, so I'm not sure where you're getting that information

He supports and assault weapons ban and a high capacity magazine ban, which is a de facto ban on basically all of the popular firearms people own outside of revolvers shotguns and hunting rifles.


Quote
It's weird that people with mental health problems are able to get guns, shoot up large crowds of people, and then their right to get guns are consistently defended by the right. The conflation of better restrictions and doing away with the second amendment is a terrible, terrible slippery slope argument.

It's weird that people support taking away the rights of people without due process.  No law-abiding gun owner wants a shooting to happen, but we also don't want someone to just remove our rights without a judicial process. 

Dabnasty

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Re: What's so bad about Nancy Pelosi?
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2018, 12:12:07 PM »

Sanders does not support the disarming of all citizens, so I'm not sure where you're getting that information

He supports and assault weapons ban and a high capacity magazine ban, which is a de facto ban on basically all of the popular firearms people own outside of revolvers shotguns and hunting rifles.


When you say that gun laws you disagree with "prevent you from defending yourself", no one is going to take you seriously. If you believe your ability to defend yourself is entirely predicated on the concealed carry of high capacity handguns, then I don't really know what to say.

More likely, you're being disingenuous with your wording which makes it really hard to have a serious conversation. Either way, let's move away from the gun debate unless it directly relates to Nancy Pelosi.