Author Topic: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves  (Read 160231 times)

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #150 on: July 07, 2024, 02:52:29 PM »
Everyone, look, if you can't take Trump at his word that he's not up to any shenanigans, who can you trust?

Sailor Sam

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #151 on: July 07, 2024, 02:59:14 PM »
Everyone, look, if you can't take Trump at his word that he's not up to any shenanigans, who can you trust?

Okay, I laughed. Out loud, even.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #152 on: July 07, 2024, 05:56:54 PM »
The Project 2025 "Mandate for Leadership" states "Pornography should be outlawed." (*)

(*) You don't actually want to read the paragraph from Project 2025, but for the less trusting, I warned you:
Spoiler: show
Quote
Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender
ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot
inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual
liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its
purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product
is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime.
Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should
be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed
as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that
facilitate its spread should be shuttered.
https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf#page=38

Ron Scott

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #153 on: July 07, 2024, 06:13:19 PM »
And THIS is who Biden is going to force the Dems to lose to. Thanks Joe…that’s how history will remember you. I hope you’re proud of yourself.

partgypsy

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #154 on: July 07, 2024, 06:32:10 PM »
Everyone, look, if you can't take Trump at his word that he's not up to any shenanigans, who can you trust?

laugh cry

jrhampt

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #155 on: July 07, 2024, 07:19:35 PM »
And THIS is who Biden is going to force the Dems to lose to. Thanks Joe…that’s how history will remember you. I hope you’re proud of yourself.

Biden’s not forcing the democrats to lose.  They are doing this to themselves, just like they did in 2016. The press is helping again since they like stirring up drama, I guess.

FINate

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #156 on: July 07, 2024, 08:59:06 PM »
Biden and his allies seem to think this is just a media cycle they can ride out by offering explanations and staying the course. IMO they are badly mistaken.

For better or worse, POTUS is a 24/7 job. If China attacks Taiwan at 3am local time the commander of the world's most powerful military needs to make decisions quickly at a moments notice. All this talk of blaming international travel, a cold, or not scheduling events past 8pm is a tacit admission he's not up for the job.

What we saw at the debate shattered the illusion that Biden can serve another 4 years. This is going to be very difficult for voters to unsee, no amount of explaining is going to repair the damage. Avoiding the press, reading from a teleprompter at rallies, and radio interviews with pre-canned questions/responses won't change the equation. The status quo no longer cuts it.

I've said this before on these forums: The only way Biden puts concerns about his age to rest is by doing a lot of in-person unscripted interviews and events. Hitting the campaign trail hard with a busy schedule and lots of off-the-cuff time. Town halls with lots of q&a with voters and the press. If he can't do that he needs to withdraw.

It's very telling that Trump, despite his narcissism, has somehow found restraint and is remaining eerily quite as Team Biden implodes. And some of the chatter I'm reading from the GOP side suggests they, based on polling in key swing states, really want Biden to continue on.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2024, 09:00:53 PM by FINate »

reeshau

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #157 on: July 07, 2024, 09:43:17 PM »
Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime.
Pornography should be outlawed.

Wow.  So, they're going after Fox News?

Ron Scott

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Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #158 on: July 08, 2024, 04:20:08 AM »
America is a place where someone demands we choose for our leader either a criminal or a dotard. Everyone accepts the validity of the choice. Everyone falls in line, arguing which option is better.

The war is conceded before the battle is fought.

“Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. I am the great and powerful…Wizard of Oz.”

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #159 on: July 08, 2024, 05:44:55 AM »
Strategically, Democrats might be waiting for after the Republican National Convention to announce a change.  That way, they spend their energy hitting Biden, and then a switch makes that a waste.  I hope people other than Biden's inner circle are involved in the decision, as they're the ones who were hiding Biden's shortcomings from everyone else.

I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer.  She also has the advantage of being pre-insulted by Trump ("that woman from Michigan"), and being involved in Biden's election campaign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Kris

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #160 on: July 08, 2024, 06:27:04 AM »
Strategically, Democrats might be waiting for after the Republican National Convention to announce a change.  That way, they spend their energy hitting Biden, and then a switch makes that a waste.  I hope people other than Biden's inner circle are involved in the decision, as they're the ones who were hiding Biden's shortcomings from everyone else.

I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer.  She also has the advantage of being pre-insulted by Trump ("that woman from Michigan"), and being involved in Biden's election campaign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

That might make sense, if the Democrats had ever showed that they had a strategy. Sigh.

iris lily

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #161 on: July 08, 2024, 06:43:35 AM »
In general, there is a huge reluctance to remove or pressure to resign politicians elected by the people.

I see that at all levels of government. Our city attorney, useless beyond measure, should’ve been removed by the powers that be at the state level who had that power, but when push came to shove, they were reluctant to do so. The people elected her.

I do have some respect for that point of view. Joe Biden is President  of the United States, duly elected. The people spoke. Machinery to move him out of that office moves  slowly because it is thwarting democracy in a way.

iris lily

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #162 on: July 08, 2024, 09:08:27 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

Kris

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #163 on: July 08, 2024, 09:24:56 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

StarBright

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #164 on: July 08, 2024, 09:51:16 AM »
Strategically, Democrats might be waiting for after the Republican National Convention to announce a change.  That way, they spend their energy hitting Biden, and then a switch makes that a waste.  I hope people other than Biden's inner circle are involved in the decision, as they're the ones who were hiding Biden's shortcomings from everyone else.

I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer.  She also has the advantage of being pre-insulted by Trump ("that woman from Michigan"), and being involved in Biden's election campaign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

I love Gretch! But also Harris is truly solid, she's just a touch neo-liberal for the youngsters. Harris/Tony Evers would be an interesting ticket (but he's older). If Shapiro had been gov of PA longer I would say that Harris/Shapiro would be banger ticket. 

And if IN wasn't so red Harris/Buttigieg would be my dream ticket - but Pete gets you nothing as far as electoral votes.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2024, 09:53:21 AM by StarBright »

iris lily

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #165 on: July 08, 2024, 10:00:39 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826


« Last Edit: July 08, 2024, 10:04:56 AM by iris lily »

Kris

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #166 on: July 08, 2024, 10:22:51 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826

That doesn't mean she wasn't qualified. She had and has quite a bit of relevant experience for the job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris


ATtiny85

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #167 on: July 08, 2024, 10:36:54 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826

That doesn't mean she wasn't qualified. She had and has quite a bit of relevant experience for the job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris

Iris Lily didn’t say DEI stands for Didn’t Earn It, it was just pointed out that there was a focus on a certain group(s). Explaining a departure from that sure could a bit awkward.

Kris

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #168 on: July 08, 2024, 10:41:53 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826

That doesn't mean she wasn't qualified. She had and has quite a bit of relevant experience for the job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris

Iris Lily didn’t say DEI stands for Didn’t Earn It, it was just pointed out that there was a focus on a certain group(s). Explaining a departure from that sure could a bit awkward.

Yes, he chose from among the pool of qualified Black women instead of the pool of qualified white men. I guess I’m not seeing why that’s a problem.

GuitarStv

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #169 on: July 08, 2024, 11:54:50 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826

That doesn't mean she wasn't qualified. She had and has quite a bit of relevant experience for the job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris

Iris Lily didn’t say DEI stands for Didn’t Earn It, it was just pointed out that there was a focus on a certain group(s). Explaining a departure from that sure could a bit awkward.

Yes, he chose from among the pool of qualified Black women instead of the pool of qualified white men. I guess I’m not seeing why that’s a problem.

It is and it isn't a problem.

Narrowing candidates down for a job by their race or sex is inherently racist or sexist - by definition.  If you're picking only from a pool of white men, then you're being racist and sexist.  If you're picking only from a pool of black women then you're being racist and sexist.

I get why reasonable people would want to institute affirmative action policies that favour minorities who have been historically (and continue to be) discriminated against.  It's an attempt to right an injustice.  I'm not dead set against the practice.  But because of it's racist/sexist nature, extreme caution and very careful consideration is necessary when implementing this sort of policy.

iris lily

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #170 on: July 08, 2024, 12:05:04 PM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826

That doesn't mean she wasn't qualified. She had and has quite a bit of relevant experience for the job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris

Iris Lily didn’t say DEI stands for Didn’t Earn It, it was just pointed out that there was a focus on a certain group(s). Explaining a departure from that sure could a bit awkward.

Yes, he chose from among the pool of qualified Black women instead of the pool of qualified white men. I guess I’m not seeing why that’s a problem.

It is and it isn't a problem.

Narrowing candidates down for a job by their race or sex is inherently racist or sexist - by definition.  If you're picking only from a pool of white men, then you're being racist and sexist.  If you're picking only from a pool of black women then you're being racist and sexist.

I get why reasonable people would want to institute affirmative action policies that favour minorities who have been historically (and continue to be) discriminated against.  It's an attempt to right an injustice.  I'm not dead set against the practice.  But because of it's racist/sexist nature, extreme caution and very careful consideration is necessary when implementing this sort of policy.

Hilariously in coincidence, ,I just this moment ran across the Babylon Bee’s  front page to find this article:

“Democrats outraged over VP chosen for her race and gender being labeled DEI hire.”

Believe me, I don’t normally seek out Babylon Bee material although it crosses my feeds now and then. I like much of their stuff but a little goes a long way. The last Bee piece I remember was a visual cartoon about Jewish student at Harvard so that was a while ago.

Anyway, there is so much in the current Presidential campaign to satirize.

https://babylonbee.com/news/dems-outraged-over-vp-chosen-for-her-race-and-gender-being-labeled-dei-hire
« Last Edit: July 08, 2024, 03:40:21 PM by iris lily »

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #171 on: July 08, 2024, 12:10:36 PM »
And if IN wasn't so red Harris/Buttigieg would be my dream ticket - but Pete gets you nothing as far as electoral votes.
Indiana went for Obama in 2008 and had a democratic senator until 2019. With Buttigieg on the ticket, and Pence off, Indiana would have a decent chance of going blue in 2024 if there was a solid candidate at the top of the ticket.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2024, 12:13:17 PM by YttriumNitrate »

Just Joe

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #172 on: July 08, 2024, 12:29:20 PM »
I fear the conservatives or Russians "salted" the media to help this blow up about Biden's age and Harris (DEI) to divide voters and help assure Trump's win.

No facts to back it up. I'm voting for the Dems still come Nov 6. I don't fear Biden's leadership b/c I believe he has a good team behind him. If someone else is shifted onto the Dem ticket I'll vote for them too.

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #173 on: July 08, 2024, 01:07:23 PM »
I fear the conservatives or Russians "salted" the media to help this blow up about Biden's age and Harris (DEI) to divide voters and help assure Trump's win.

No facts to back it up. I'm voting for the Dems still come Nov 6. I don't fear Biden's leadership b/c I believe he has a good team behind him. If someone else is shifted onto the Dem ticket I'll vote for them too.

I agree with you on all points.

Ron Scott

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #174 on: July 08, 2024, 01:52:01 PM »
Indiana would have a decent chance of going blue in 2024 if there was a solid candidate at the top of the ticket.

Doesn’t look promising so far…

sixwings

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #175 on: July 08, 2024, 11:21:15 PM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826

That doesn't mean she wasn't qualified. She had and has quite a bit of relevant experience for the job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris

Iris Lily didn’t say DEI stands for Didn’t Earn It, it was just pointed out that there was a focus on a certain group(s). Explaining a departure from that sure could a bit awkward.

Yes, he chose from among the pool of qualified Black women instead of the pool of qualified white men. I guess I’m not seeing why that’s a problem.

It is and it isn't a problem.

Narrowing candidates down for a job by their race or sex is inherently racist or sexist - by definition.  If you're picking only from a pool of white men, then you're being racist and sexist.  If you're picking only from a pool of black women then you're being racist and sexist.

I get why reasonable people would want to institute affirmative action policies that favour minorities who have been historically (and continue to be) discriminated against.  It's an attempt to right an injustice.  I'm not dead set against the practice.  But because of it's racist/sexist nature, extreme caution and very careful consideration is necessary when implementing this sort of policy.

Framing it just trying to right an injustice is imo a poor reflection of the value of diversity and why companies want it. It's obv a complicated issue with righting an injustice baked in, but it's also about companies wanting different viewpoints, cultures and experiences to create a more resilient organization. I'm in an executive role and have held leadership roles for most of my career, my teams go through experiences in their lives that me, or people who think exactly like me, can't relate to and it impacts our ability to lead and create a resilient org. You wouldn't be able to create a winning hockey team with just goalies or just goal scoring centers. You need a variety of positions, and within the positions you need various roles that different people fill to create a well rounded team. 

Framing it as just hiring people because of their skin color is wrong, I often find online it's white men complaining but in reality they sucked as applicants, aren't curious, aren't hard working, and just want to blame someone else for their own failures.

Harris covered lots of issues Biden had in 2020, she's a bad pick for 2024, but it was also the easy choice and Biden is sleepwalking this one to disaster.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2024, 11:23:58 PM by sixwings »

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #176 on: July 09, 2024, 04:49:21 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826
I clicked on all the news links, including the one where candidate Biden announced he had narrowed his VP pick to "four black women".  I've seen a couple other examples, not just his Supreme Court pick, that suggest it is a theme for President Biden.

For the Left, diversity is the goal, so Kamala Harris fits the goal.  For the right, Harris is one of several examples of hiring based on race and gender.  I try to skew closer to the middle, where I think her qualifications only matter compared to the competition.  She was elected district attorney, and served in various parts of California government.  That could help her against Trump's claims of greater experience running the country (Liberal joke: I misspelled "ruining").

StarBright

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #177 on: July 09, 2024, 07:07:47 AM »
And if IN wasn't so red Harris/Buttigieg would be my dream ticket - but Pete gets you nothing as far as electoral votes.
Indiana went for Obama in 2008 and had a democratic senator until 2019. With Buttigieg on the ticket, and Pence off, Indiana would have a decent chance of going blue in 2024 if there was a solid candidate at the top of the ticket.

Good point on 2019 - I forgot about Donnelly and thought the Birch and Evan Bayh were the last two Dems to hold senate seats (in the 80s and the aughts).

I'm a born and bred Hoosier from the Indianapolis area and I just don't see it! But your words to Gods' ears my friend :)

I remember doing the weekly reader presidential poll in elementary school and when the teacher read out each of the votes I was the only kid in the class that had voted for Dukakis. The feeling of WTH is like a core memory for me :) 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2024, 07:17:04 AM by StarBright »

sonofsven

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #178 on: July 09, 2024, 07:59:50 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826
I clicked on all the news links, including the one where candidate Biden announced he had narrowed his VP pick to "four black women".  I've seen a couple other examples, not just his Supreme Court pick, that suggest it is a theme for President Biden.

For the Left, diversity is the goal, so Kamala Harris fits the goal.  For the right, Harris is one of several examples of hiring based on race and gender.  I try to skew closer to the middle, where I think her qualifications only matter compared to the competition.  She was elected district attorney, and served in various parts of California government.  That could help her against Trump's claims of greater experience running the country (Liberal joke: I misspelled "ruining").

She was also an elected US Senator. The DEI charge is bullshit.

EvenSteven

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #179 on: July 09, 2024, 08:06:24 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826
I clicked on all the news links, including the one where candidate Biden announced he had narrowed his VP pick to "four black women".  I've seen a couple other examples, not just his Supreme Court pick, that suggest it is a theme for President Biden.

For the Left, diversity is the goal, so Kamala Harris fits the goal.  For the right, Harris is one of several examples of hiring based on race and gender.  I try to skew closer to the middle, where I think her qualifications only matter compared to the competition.  She was elected district attorney, and served in various parts of California government.  That could help her against Trump's claims of greater experience running the country (Liberal joke: I misspelled "ruining").

She was also an elected US Senator. The DEI charge is bullshit.

I think people are taking the DEI comments too literally. DEI is the newest in a long line of euphemisms. Before DEI it was welfare queens, and before that it was school busing.

GuitarStv

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #180 on: July 09, 2024, 08:36:18 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826

That doesn't mean she wasn't qualified. She had and has quite a bit of relevant experience for the job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris

Iris Lily didn’t say DEI stands for Didn’t Earn It, it was just pointed out that there was a focus on a certain group(s). Explaining a departure from that sure could a bit awkward.

Yes, he chose from among the pool of qualified Black women instead of the pool of qualified white men. I guess I’m not seeing why that’s a problem.

It is and it isn't a problem.

Narrowing candidates down for a job by their race or sex is inherently racist or sexist - by definition.  If you're picking only from a pool of white men, then you're being racist and sexist.  If you're picking only from a pool of black women then you're being racist and sexist.

I get why reasonable people would want to institute affirmative action policies that favour minorities who have been historically (and continue to be) discriminated against.  It's an attempt to right an injustice.  I'm not dead set against the practice.  But because of it's racist/sexist nature, extreme caution and very careful consideration is necessary when implementing this sort of policy.

Framing it just trying to right an injustice is imo a poor reflection of the value of diversity and why companies want it. It's obv a complicated issue with righting an injustice baked in, but it's also about companies wanting different viewpoints, cultures and experiences to create a more resilient organization. I'm in an executive role and have held leadership roles for most of my career, my teams go through experiences in their lives that me, or people who think exactly like me, can't relate to and it impacts our ability to lead and create a resilient org. You wouldn't be able to create a winning hockey team with just goalies or just goal scoring centers. You need a variety of positions, and within the positions you need various roles that different people fill to create a well rounded team. 

Framing it as just hiring people because of their skin color is wrong, I often find online it's white men complaining but in reality they sucked as applicants, aren't curious, aren't hard working, and just want to blame someone else for their own failures.

Harris covered lots of issues Biden had in 2020, she's a bad pick for 2024, but it was also the easy choice and Biden is sleepwalking this one to disaster.

So, this is exactly why I mentioned the need for extreme caution when practicing this sort of hiring policy.  The argument that you need to hire people based on sex or race because otherwise your organization will not be able to lead or be resilient is bizarre and sounds like nonsense to me.  It actually makes me a little uncomfortable - effectively you're stereotyping people who are visibly different as being fundamentally different because of their observable attributes.  When you break it down to the driving thought process behind such a claim it's effectively just a form of modern day phrenology.

"He's black so he will bring some street attitude to the team."
"She's Asian and we need some of that respect for traditions and teamwork"
"We need more women on the sales team because currently our approach is too aggressive"

Yikes!  I know in reality you would never mention it out loud . . . but that's effectively the line of thinking being advocated and pushed by the policy you're describing.

Race and sex don't necessarily determine your lived experience, your culture, or your viewpoints.  My best friend was a black man who grew up in a large city in Trinidad.  I'm a white guy who grew up in a small town Northern Ontario.  Culturally, experience-wise, family-wise, in education, in careers, and on most viewpoints we were very closely matched on nearly everything - it's why we became great friends so quickly.  Hiring both of us at a job might give you a better shot at winning corporate racial bingo, but wouldn't actually do any of the things you were listing as reasons for following a racist or sexist hiring practice.

If you really care about building a diverse team, I'd argue that much more important than race and sex would be considering differing income levels and social class, differing education levels and areas of study, the different social groups and organizations someone belongs to, and differing interpersonal and family structures/relationships.  Picking different skin colours or sex is obviously much more actionable for management, but won't effectively achieve the intended result and is fundamentally and morally wrong to do.

nereo

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #181 on: July 09, 2024, 08:39:47 AM »

…I'd favor a swing state governor to replace Biden - someone more appealing to voters in the general election.  It looks like the top pick meeting that criteria is Michigan governor…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer

Tell me, how do you think the Democrats should explain away their DEI hire Kamala Harris? That has to be…awkward.

How do you figure she’s a DEI hire?

There are plenty of Biden quotes to show he focused on  women as his target group for Vice Presiden, then black women. Democraric Party operatives pressured him in it.  The group he focused on is 8% of the U.S. population. Right there, he limited his choices.

But to be fair his real stated DEI goal for black women was to place one on the Supreme Court.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/joe-biden-potential-vp-pick/index.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/joe-biden-running-mate-vice-president-black-women-harris-abrams-a9629616.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-vice-president-black-woman-running-mate/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/biden-woman-vice-president-131309


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/problem-biden-s-pledge-black-woman-justice-n1200826
I clicked on all the news links, including the one where candidate Biden announced he had narrowed his VP pick to "four black women".  I've seen a couple other examples, not just his Supreme Court pick, that suggest it is a theme for President Biden.

For the Left, diversity is the goal, so Kamala Harris fits the goal.  For the right, Harris is one of several examples of hiring based on race and gender.  I try to skew closer to the middle, where I think her qualifications only matter compared to the competition.  She was elected district attorney, and served in various parts of California government.  That could help her against Trump's claims of greater experience running the country (Liberal joke: I misspelled "ruining").

She was also an elected US Senator. The DEI charge is bullshit.

Recent previous VPs and their political experience / civil service (reverse chronological order)

Harris: US Senator (1 term), State AG (CA), DA (SF)
Pence: State Governor (IL), US House Rep (1 term)
Biden: US Senate (7 terms)
Cheney: SoD; US House (5 terms)
Gore: US Senator (2 terms); US House (4 terms)
Quayle: US Senator (2 terms); US House (2 terms)
H.W> Bush: Director of CIA (1 year); Diplomat to China (1 year); UN Ambassador (2 years); US House (2 terms)
Mondale: US Ambassador to Japan (3 years); US Senator (2 terms); State AG
Rockefeller: State Gov (NY); US Under-secretary
Ford: US House (11 terms)
Agnew: State Gov (MD)

tl;dr - Harris's experience is in line with other VPs... more than some (Agnew), roughly equivalent* to others (Pence, Rockefeller, H.W. Bush, Mondale), and less than what we could call the real "career politicians' (Biden, Ford)

*equivalence is very hard to determine.  For example, how does being the AG of the largest state and the DA of the largest cities compare with being the gov or AG of a much smaller state?  how does being in the foreign service compare with being in the US legislature?

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #182 on: July 09, 2024, 09:15:11 AM »
I fear the conservatives or Russians "salted" the media to help this blow up about Biden's age and Harris (DEI) to divide voters and help assure Trump's win.

No facts to back it up. I'm voting for the Dems still come Nov 6. I don't fear Biden's leadership b/c I believe he has a good team behind him. If someone else is shifted onto the Dem ticket I'll vote for them too.

The same media that has effectively been a wing of the Democratic party for years? Conservatives have been calling out Biden's age and declining mental state for years. The only difference now is that the media finally realized they couldn't keep telling people "Don't believe your lying eyes" after watching him on stage for 90 minutes with no teleprompter and no aides coming to shuffle him off the stage when unscripted questions are asked (since the media has been complicit in asking pre-arranged questions during many interviews and press conferences).

sixwings

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #183 on: July 09, 2024, 09:30:52 AM »
I fear the conservatives or Russians "salted" the media to help this blow up about Biden's age and Harris (DEI) to divide voters and help assure Trump's win.

No facts to back it up. I'm voting for the Dems still come Nov 6. I don't fear Biden's leadership b/c I believe he has a good team behind him. If someone else is shifted onto the Dem ticket I'll vote for them too.

The same media that has effectively been a wing of the Democratic party for years? Conservatives have been calling out Biden's age and declining mental state for years. The only difference now is that the media finally realized they couldn't keep telling people "Don't believe your lying eyes" after watching him on stage for 90 minutes with no teleprompter and no aides coming to shuffle him off the stage when unscripted questions are asked (since the media has been complicit in asking pre-arranged questions during many interviews and press conferences).

Yes, Biden is old. Trump is old. Both are incoherent. This is not new. However one of them cheated on his wife with a porn star, while his wife was at home with a new child, and then made fradulent business entries to try to cover that up, a man who cheated on all 3 of his wives, a man who is also incoherent ranting about post birth abortions and black jobs vs hispanic jobs, a man who is no longer allowed to even be on the board of a charital foundation, a man who lies constantly about the 2020 election results and did nothing to try to stop a mob from entering the capital, a man who was faced with a pandemic crisis and then decided to deny it and try to pretend it wasn't real and then embarass America with his insane press conferences and ramblings, a man whose administration was in constant chaos, the list just goes on and on and on.

It's not really that hard of a choice for anyone with morals.

achvfi

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #184 on: July 09, 2024, 10:46:35 AM »
Biden running again for president reminds me of Ginsberg. She wanted to stay on supreme court bench even when she was looking like a corpse. Look what she helped extreme right do to women's rights among other law interpretations coming from current court by sticking to the power. She could have let a democratic president find her replacement.

Biden has the look as if life is draining out of him for the last couple years now. It makes no sense to attempt to hold on to power. I guess power is hard to relinquish.

Dems need a strong candidate at this stage, someone that looks the part. Gavin Newsom is my choice. He is male, white, handsome and a proven executive. He will appeal to voters on all sides.

Trump won in 2016 because of a weak candidate, Hillary. He has the same opportunity in 2024 with Biden.


doneby35

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #185 on: July 09, 2024, 11:43:08 AM »
I fear the conservatives or Russians "salted" the media to help this blow up about Biden's age and Harris (DEI) to divide voters and help assure Trump's win.

No facts to back it up. I'm voting for the Dems still come Nov 6. I don't fear Biden's leadership b/c I believe he has a good team behind him. If someone else is shifted onto the Dem ticket I'll vote for them too.

The same media that has effectively been a wing of the Democratic party for years? Conservatives have been calling out Biden's age and declining mental state for years. The only difference now is that the media finally realized they couldn't keep telling people "Don't believe your lying eyes" after watching him on stage for 90 minutes with no teleprompter and no aides coming to shuffle him off the stage when unscripted questions are asked (since the media has been complicit in asking pre-arranged questions during many interviews and press conferences).

Yes, Biden is old. Trump is old. Both are incoherent. This is not new. However one of them cheated on his wife with a porn star, while his wife was at home with a new child, and then made fradulent business entries to try to cover that up, a man who cheated on all 3 of his wives, a man who is also incoherent ranting about post birth abortions and black jobs vs hispanic jobs, a man who is no longer allowed to even be on the board of a charital foundation, a man who lies constantly about the 2020 election results and did nothing to try to stop a mob from entering the capital, a man who was faced with a pandemic crisis and then decided to deny it and try to pretend it wasn't real and then embarass America with his insane press conferences and ramblings, a man whose administration was in constant chaos, the list just goes on and on and on.

It's not really that hard of a choice for anyone with morals.

And the other hasn’t done anything bad, does not lie, absolutely cares about the average joe and jane, and can only be described as a dedicated public servant! They both suck, let’s stop playing the game of taking the side of the one who sucks a tiny bit less.

jrhampt

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #186 on: July 09, 2024, 11:50:52 AM »
Not really.  They don't both suck and it's really not a case of "the lesser of two evils".  One is clearly the far better choice.

doneby35

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #187 on: July 09, 2024, 12:11:45 PM »
Not really.  They don't both suck and it's really not a case of "the lesser of two evils".  One is clearly the far better choice.

One thing is for certain, it is quite challenging to get most people who are so stuck on believing that their side is good and the other side is bad, to even consider looking at things just a little bit differently.

jrhampt

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #188 on: July 09, 2024, 12:16:42 PM »
I’d like to keep my reproductive rights for starters, so that alone is a differentiator between the two candidates.  They are not the same.

GuitarStv

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #189 on: July 09, 2024, 12:36:07 PM »
I’d like to keep my reproductive rights for starters, so that alone is a differentiator between the two candidates.  They are not the same.

With the current makeup of the bought and paid for activist Supreme Court the ship has kinda sailed on that, hasn't it?  Your reproductive rights are not going to be coming back until those justices are dead or retired no matter who is elected.

jrhampt

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #190 on: July 09, 2024, 12:39:36 PM »
I’m not planning on electing someone who is likely to go for a federal abortion ban since right now I live in a state that protects my reproductive rights.  I’d rather not make things even worse than they already are.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #191 on: July 09, 2024, 12:43:58 PM »
Not really.  They don't both suck and it's really not a case of "the lesser of two evils".  One is clearly the far better choice.

One thing is for certain, it is quite challenging to get most people who are so stuck on believing that their side is good and the other side is bad, to even consider looking at things just a little bit differently.

I do not like a lot of what Biden has done. They both suck to me in terms of accomplishing things I would like to get accomplished.

However....

They are in no way equally corrupt or even close. Biden is no saint, but morally there's no comparison to Trump's actions.

Beyond that, there's no reason to think Biden is going to do much more than generally respect the status quo, the same as Obama, Bush Jr., Clinton, etc.

Trump could literally strip our Republic of things that make it recognizable. This is not Bush vs Gore. It's not McCain vs Obama. This is not business as usual. It's a crisis.

doneby35

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #192 on: July 09, 2024, 12:46:33 PM »
I’d like to keep my reproductive rights for starters, so that alone is a differentiator between the two candidates.  They are not the same.

With the current makeup of the bought and paid for activist Supreme Court the ship has kinda sailed on that, hasn't it?  Your reproductive rights are not going to be coming back until those justices are dead or retired no matter who is elected.

Exactly. Also if Democrats really consider Trump to be a grave danger or worse than Hitler or whatever, not really seeing how Biden would be the best option to prevent this danger. Makes you at least think a little whether this is all just theater.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #193 on: July 09, 2024, 12:57:16 PM »
I’d like to keep my reproductive rights for starters, so that alone is a differentiator between the two candidates.  They are not the same.

With the current makeup of the bought and paid for activist Supreme Court the ship has kinda sailed on that, hasn't it?  Your reproductive rights are not going to be coming back until those justices are dead or retired no matter who is elected.

Exactly. Also if Democrats really consider Trump to be a grave danger or worse than Hitler or whatever, not really seeing how Biden would be the best option to prevent this danger. Makes you at least think a little whether this is all just theater.

You really think the Democrat's ineptitude is evidence of some sort of what... conspiracy to put words in Trump's mouth of what he wants to do or things he actually did or tried to do when president that illustrate how dangerous he is? The Democrats can and are incredibly inept. This is not new.

jrhampt

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #194 on: July 09, 2024, 12:59:54 PM »
I’d like to keep my reproductive rights for starters, so that alone is a differentiator between the two candidates.  They are not the same.

With the current makeup of the bought and paid for activist Supreme Court the ship has kinda sailed on that, hasn't it?  Your reproductive rights are not going to be coming back until those justices are dead or retired no matter who is elected.


Exactly. Also if Democrats really consider Trump to be a grave danger or worse than Hitler or whatever, not really seeing how Biden would be the best option to prevent this danger. Makes you at least think a little whether this is all just theater.

Guys.  The ship has not sailed.  The judiciary is not the only branch of government.  We have a legislative branch which makes the laws and an executive branch which can sign them into law or veto them.  Things can get a lot worse than they already are depending on who controls the other two branches. 

Ron Scott

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #195 on: July 09, 2024, 01:05:19 PM »
I’d like to keep my reproductive rights for starters, so that alone is a differentiator between the two candidates.  They are not the same.

With the current makeup of the bought and paid for activist Supreme Court the ship has kinda sailed on that, hasn't it?  Your reproductive rights are not going to be coming back until those justices are dead or retired no matter who is elected.

Exactly. Also if Democrats really consider Trump to be a grave danger or worse than Hitler or whatever, not really seeing how Biden would be the best option to prevent this danger. Makes you at least think a little whether this is all just theater.

The Dems and GOP share the goal of convincing us they are the only options. They have bought the media, and the internet creatives have fallen in line too for the most part. So even with the worst choice ever they've maintained a lock on us.

I would love Fox and CNN to collaborate on a series — Stolen America: How 2 parties have hoodwinked 350m of the richest and best educated people in the world

sixwings

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #196 on: July 09, 2024, 01:08:09 PM »
I’d like to keep my reproductive rights for starters, so that alone is a differentiator between the two candidates.  They are not the same.

With the current makeup of the bought and paid for activist Supreme Court the ship has kinda sailed on that, hasn't it?  Your reproductive rights are not going to be coming back until those justices are dead or retired no matter who is elected.

Exactly. Also if Democrats really consider Trump to be a grave danger or worse than Hitler or whatever, not really seeing how Biden would be the best option to prevent this danger. Makes you at least think a little whether this is all just theater.

No. I've lost patience for this kind of garbage. It is not just theater. Elections have very real consequences and a Trump administration is the most extreme consequence. Trump does not give a single flying F about running the government, he will let the extremists wanting to implement project 2025 run it while he goes on his petty revenge list. For instance, both Thomas and Alito could easily be replaced in the next term, sotomeyer too. This election could either flip the court, or keep it extremely conservative for another 25 years. And no, Trump is not picking judges, he is just being told what judge to pick by the etremist fed soc and he doesn't care so he does it because he's lazy and it's easy, and it will be more 45-50 year old extreme judges that lock in an extremely conservative 6-3 or 7-2 SC for the next 25 years. That has VERY real consequences. Reproductive rights, rights of minorities, the environment and the governments ability to combat climate change or hold companies accountable to following laws and not dumping toxic sludge into your water, the ability to regulate complex issues, the actual lives of trans adults (do not start a discussion on trans children there's a seperate topic for that), the rights of the LGBT community to love who they want to love, and many more issues could very easily be damaged or removed. The conservative SC has done so much damage already, like the Chevron decision is so horrendously bad it's difficult to put that into words. So no, it's not just theater, stop with that garbage it's not true and it's stupid. Trump is mostly a moron and a bad person, he's too incompetent to do much himself, however the administration below him will be absolutely horrendous and it has very real consequences. 

I think Biden does actually think he's the best person to win, and maybe he was a year ago, interviews with him were much more clear and coherent, but he's clearly going downhill fast and this is now a real mess.

sixwings

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #197 on: July 09, 2024, 01:11:10 PM »
I’d like to keep my reproductive rights for starters, so that alone is a differentiator between the two candidates.  They are not the same.

With the current makeup of the bought and paid for activist Supreme Court the ship has kinda sailed on that, hasn't it?  Your reproductive rights are not going to be coming back until those justices are dead or retired no matter who is elected.

Exactly. Also if Democrats really consider Trump to be a grave danger or worse than Hitler or whatever, not really seeing how Biden would be the best option to prevent this danger. Makes you at least think a little whether this is all just theater.

The Dems and GOP share the goal of convincing us they are the only options. They have bought the media, and the internet creatives have fallen in line too for the most part. So even with the worst choice ever they've maintained a lock on us.

I would love Fox and CNN to collaborate on a series — Stolen America: How 2 parties have hoodwinked 350m of the richest and best educated people in the world

No, you have it wrong, it should be: Stolen America: How a small number of the richest people stole the 2 american parties to serve their short term interests

See: SC rulings like Citizens United, and how Koch and conservative billionaire founded Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society control the entirety of conservative politics.

Because of rulings like CU, the parties had to bend to the whims of the billionaires or get ejected.

doneby35

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #198 on: July 09, 2024, 01:20:39 PM »
I’d like to keep my reproductive rights for starters, so that alone is a differentiator between the two candidates.  They are not the same.

With the current makeup of the bought and paid for activist Supreme Court the ship has kinda sailed on that, hasn't it?  Your reproductive rights are not going to be coming back until those justices are dead or retired no matter who is elected.

Exactly. Also if Democrats really consider Trump to be a grave danger or worse than Hitler or whatever, not really seeing how Biden would be the best option to prevent this danger. Makes you at least think a little whether this is all just theater.

No. I've lost patience for this kind of garbage. It is not just theater. Elections have very real consequences and a Trump administration is the most extreme consequence. Trump does not give a single flying F about running the government, he will let the extremists wanting to implement project 2025 run it while he goes on his petty revenge list. For instance, both Thomas and Alito could easily be replaced in the next term, sotomeyer too. This election could either flip the court, or keep it extremely conservative for another 25 years. And no, Trump is not picking judges, he is just being told what judge to pick by the etremist fed soc and he doesn't care so he does it because he's lazy and it's easy, and it will be more 45-50 year old extreme judges that lock in an extremely conservative 6-3 or 7-2 SC for the next 25 years. That has VERY real consequences. Reproductive rights, rights of minorities, the environment and the governments ability to combat climate change or hold companies accountable to following laws and not dumping toxic sludge into your water, the ability to regulate complex issues, the actual lives of trans adults (do not start a discussion on trans children there's a seperate topic for that), the rights of the LGBT community to love who they want to love, and many more issues could very easily be damaged or removed. The conservative SC has done so much damage already, like the Chevron decision is so horrendously bad it's difficult to put that into words. So no, it's not just theater, stop with that garbage it's not true and it's stupid. Trump is mostly a moron and a bad person, he's too incompetent to do much himself, however the administration below him will be absolutely horrendous and it has very real consequences. 

I think Biden does actually think he's the best person to win, and maybe he was a year ago, interviews with him were much more clear and coherent, but he's clearly going downhill fast and this is now a real mess.

Woah there, this is a conversation, no need to get all defensive. Just because you don’t think it’s theater doesn’t mean it is not, and vice versa. People have different opinions so you can lose your patience as much as you want.

Kris

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Re: Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves
« Reply #199 on: July 09, 2024, 01:24:27 PM »
Oh, lord, tone policing has entered the chat.