Well I hope the Dems are proud of themselves

[Ron Scott]

All these clowns needed to do is beat a dangerous criminal nutcase from New York City who says nothing of substance. But…that seems to be a problem for these geniuses.

[partgypsy]

I watched. It was -ouch. Is it too late for Pete buttigieg to run?

[waltworks]

Looks like RBG all over again. Hopefully he’ll have the
Sense to step out of the race, but I’m not holding my breath

[Cawl]

What a time to be alive.

[Captain Cactus]

I’m voting for Kennedy.

[partgypsy]

Looks like RBG all over again. Hopefully he’ll have the
Sense to step out of the race, but I’m not holding my breath

does make me think the US is in the twilight years.

[ChpBstrd]

Overall it gave me a shudder, because it was worse than the Nixon-Kennedy debate footage I've seen. Biden looked pale and anemic, with bulging eyes, transparent hair, and a dying-breath voice one could barely hear. Of course he responded to topics more coherently than Trump but we should all know by now that doesn't matter. Debates are about appearances, not substance, and the post-debate media pile-on did the real damage here.

When Trump dodged the question about whether he would disavow political violence, Biden somehow failed to pounce, just like Clinton failed to pounce on a number of Trump's issues back in 2016. It's eerie.

Looks like RBG all over again.

Yes it does. The Democratic party has been whittled down to a handful of elderly lawyers from the Northeast and California, after purging the Southern Blue Dogs in the 90s and early 00s, neglecting state-level races and organization in the Midwest and South, failing to produce a profitable counterpoint to Fox News, talk radio, or conservative social media over the past 3 decades that would get them out of paying for every communication, failing to make election day a national holiday, and failing to effectively counter gerrymandering because it was working in favor of a few candidates in stronghold states. Biden himself was one of the people who made or let all this happen, and now there's no back bench of competitive candidates. Guess that means it worked for Biden because he got the nomination by default?

I’m voting for Kennedy.

Why would anybody do that? Trump's crackpot conspiracy theories are the wrong flavor? Kennedy is a spoiler paid for by Republican donors.

does make me think the US is in the twilight years.

I could only stand to watch a few minutes, but when Biden defended the United States against Trump's claim that everything is in decline, I got flashbacks from 2016 when Clinton's obtuse positivity and hopefulness collided with GenX cynicism and the realities of economic and social dissatisfaction. Sentiment is even worse now, and Biden is running the same tonedeaf play that failed Clinton against the same candidate. And he's doing so after a massive increase in the cost of living, with low consumer sentiment, and beggers on most streetcorners in US cities. It's a SMH moment.

If there is a 2028 election, it might look something like Gavin Newsom versus DeSantis, Cruz, or Taylor-Greene. Hopefully Newsom gets the memo that glossing over people's concerns is not endearing, but recent history is not encouraging on this point. The rally-round-the-flag, rah-rah-for-us effect is dying with Biden's and Clinton's generation.

I'll still be voting my values, but this whole situation is pathetic.

[GuitarStv]

Biden and his performance were both exactly what I expected.  He's a very frail older man.  Where is the shock and surprise coming from?

[reeshau]

While not exactly the same thing, comparing this vs. the State of the Union speech draws a bad trajectory.  One reporter said he had a cold today, which affected his voice.  But regardless of talking point mixup or what have you, there was no strength left.

When he went off-prompter at the SotU to engage the Republicans in the crowd, I had some hope he had fight left in him.

[Cawl]

Biden and his performance were both exactly what I expected.  He's a very frail older man.  Where is the shock and surprise coming from?

Because Biden's flubs and gaffes were supposed to be the result of a "stutter". Not because he's a dementia addled muppet.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Biden and his performance were both exactly what I expected.  He's a very frail older man.  Where is the shock and surprise coming from?

What I see is disappointment and regret.  Questions of Biden's cognitive ability aren't new, but they are much harder to hide without a teleprompter.

[Captain Cactus]

Biden and his performance were both exactly what I expected.  He's a very frail older man.  Where is the shock and surprise coming from?

What I see is disappointment and regret.  Questions of Biden's cognitive ability aren't new, but they are much harder to hide without a teleprompter.

Maybe this was the plan all along... soon Michelle will be introduced as the anointed one. 

[SunnyDays]

Maybe it's possible for Biden to start dropping hints about Harris and what a good President she would be.  He might get votes with the hope of her taking the reins from him.

[MrGreen]

Biden and his performance were both exactly what I expected.  He's a very frail older man.  Where is the shock and surprise coming from?

What I see is disappointment and regret.  Questions of Biden's cognitive ability aren't new, but they are much harder to hide without a teleprompter.

Maybe this was the plan all along... soon Michelle will be introduced as the anointed one.

I doubt we'll ever see Michelle Obama in official politics. She's made it pretty clear in her books and in interviews that the Obama family has sacrificed enough to public service and other people can fill that role.

[reeshau]

Biden and his performance were both exactly what I expected.  He's a very frail older man.  Where is the shock and surprise coming from?

What I see is disappointment and regret.  Questions of Biden's cognitive ability aren't new, but they are much harder to hide without a teleprompter.

Maybe this was the plan all along... soon Michelle will be introduced as the anointed one.

I doubt we'll ever see Michelle Obama in official politics. She's made it pretty clear in her books and in interviews that the Obama family has sacrificed enough to public service and other people can fill that role.

Yeah, Michelle was the one who pushed Barack into an "up or out" strategy, some didn't sit in the Senate for his whole career.

[ChpBstrd]

Biden and his performance were both exactly what I expected.  He's a very frail older man.  Where is the shock and surprise coming from?

What I see is disappointment and regret.  Questions of Biden's cognitive ability aren't new, but they are much harder to hide without a teleprompter.

Maybe this was the plan all along... soon Michelle will be introduced as the anointed one.

I doubt we'll ever see Michelle Obama in official politics. She's made it pretty clear in her books and in interviews that the Obama family has sacrificed enough to public service and other people can fill that role.

Yeah, Michelle was the one who pushed Barack into an "up or out" strategy, some didn't sit in the Senate for his whole career.

Yea Michelle is a very, very unlikely scenario because she is not a politician, has said before she is not interested in becoming a politician, lacks political skills (although Hillary also lacked political skill), and lacks political infrastructure. She's as retired as one could possibly be, has never won or even campaigned for a political office, and yet people keep bringing her up along with Chelsea Clinton.

A more likely scenario might be a role swap, where Harris swaps places with Biden by mutual agreement. Harris checks all the above boxes, but has all the charisma of Hillary Clinton (which of course has never stopped the Dems from nominating anyone - see Al Gore, Bob Dole). Such a bold decision would shake up a race that Biden is set to lose, would negate years of Republican focus on discrediting Biden, and may be the only path to victory at this point. But of course, 1) egos get in the way, 2) it is not clear Harris would do any better on a debate stage or at campaign rallies than Biden did, and 3) it would be an admission that might raise concerns about Biden being really bad off, which might be off-putting to voters even though the 25th amendment should cover concerns about VP succession.

[Cawl]

I think to get rid of Biden it would require dismantling the system that Democrats built for their party and how people advance in it.
I was passively listening to some pundits and not completely sure on the details.

[Cawl]

Biden and his performance were both exactly what I expected.  He's a very frail older man.  Where is the shock and surprise coming from?

What I see is disappointment and regret.  Questions of Biden's cognitive ability aren't new, but they are much harder to hide without a teleprompter.

Maybe this was the plan all along... soon Michelle will be introduced as the anointed one.

I doubt we'll ever see Michelle Obama in official politics. She's made it pretty clear in her books and in interviews that the Obama family has sacrificed enough to public service and other people can fill that role.

Yeah, Michelle was the one who pushed Barack into an "up or out" strategy, some didn't sit in the Senate for his whole career.

Yea Michelle is a very, very unlikely scenario because she is not a politician, has said before she is not interested in becoming a politician, lacks political skills (although Hillary also lacked political skill), and lacks political infrastructure. She's as retired as one could possibly be, has never won or even campaigned for a political office, and yet people keep bringing her up along with Chelsea Clinton.

A more likely scenario might be a role swap, where Harris swaps places with Biden by mutual agreement. Harris checks all the above boxes, but has all the charisma of Hillary Clinton (which of course has never stopped the Dems from nominating anyone - see Al Gore, Bob Dole). Such a bold decision would shake up a race that Biden is set to lose, would negate years of Republican focus on discrediting Biden, and may be the only path to victory at this point. But of course, 1) egos get in the way, 2) it is not clear Harris would do any better on a debate stage or at campaign rallies than Biden did, and 3) it would be an admission that might raise concerns about Biden being really bad off, which might be off-putting to voters even though the 25th amendment should cover concerns about VP succession.

This seems relevant.

[reeshau]

(which of course has never stopped the Dems from nominating anyone - see Al Gore, Bob Dole).

Er...Bob Dole was a Republican. Have we moved so far right that he seems Democrat-ish?   Or, has the charisma requirement has fallen off both sides' lists: see Mitt Romney, Mitchell McConnell...

[Telecaster]

This is my best guess of how things could play out.   By rule, convention delegates are committed to vote for their local winner who is Biden.   In theory, Biden could release them and then we'd have an open convention where the nominee is selected in dark, smoke-filled rooms just like the old days.   But maybe there would be honest debate and a good candidate could rise to the top. 

The nominee does not have to be Harris.   In fact, I think Harris is unlikely.  The Democrats have a number of potentially quite good candidates, but many of them don't have much name recognition and time is running short.   On the other hand, does anyone disagree that the presidential campaign season goes on for far too long?   Maybe quicker and dirtier is an improvement.   

This debate just confirmed what everyone already knew:  Biden is too old to be president and he is not getting any younger.   The Democrats should replace him.  The Republicans should replace Trump too, but the Trump/MAGA movement's intense, visceral hatred of our democratic institutions over rides any kind of rational though on the part of Republicans. 

[Cawl]

This is the greatest fucking event ever.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/i-let-my-9-year-old-watch-the-debate-it-was-a-mistake.html

[Sibley]

So, you'd rather have Trump?

Let's be honest. Both Biden and Trump are too old to be president. But right now, one of the 2 is going to win the election. Pick.

I hope Republicans are proud of themselves.

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

[Cawl]

So, you'd rather have Trump?

Let's be honest. Both Biden and Trump are too old to be president. But right now, one of the 2 is going to win the election. Pick.

I hope Republicans are proud of themselves.

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

I am tempted to vote for Biden. Really looking forward to dying in a trench in Iran or Ukraine because God fucking forbid we not escalate a war.

Edit: I'm just enjoying how many people have to do 180's to say "Biden isn't mentally fit." He hasn't been mentally fit.. ever actually.

[Sibley]

So, you'd rather have Trump?

Let's be honest. Both Biden and Trump are too old to be president. But right now, one of the 2 is going to win the election. Pick.

I hope Republicans are proud of themselves.

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

I am tempted to vote for Biden. Really looking forward to dying in a trench in Iran or Ukraine because God fucking forbid we not escalate a war.

Edit: I'm just enjoying how many people have to do 180's to say "Biden isn't mentally fit." He hasn't been mentally fit.. ever actually.

The man is in his 80s. Of course he's not mentally fit to be president. Neither is Trump. Their mental fitness 30 years ago is not relevant to the discussion today. Neither are physically fit enough to be president. Also not relevant at this point. Do I wish that we had completely different people on the ballot? Yes. But we are stuck.

The only thing that is relevant is what's going to happen if they become president. We know what will happen with Trump, because he was president. We know what will happen with Biden, because he is president. Same themes, different times. Pick your poison.

Edit:
Randomly saw this online, and it is perfectly phrased:
"They were both absolutely atrocious last night but at this point you're voting for a cabinet + administration."

[partgypsy]

The question is, are we stuck? Is it remotely possible that the people closest to Biden will tell him, remember how you said you were going to be  one term president? You did your job, time to pass the baton. And let the Dems do, which they USED to be good at, back room deal of picking who is on the ticket for the best chances for re election. My pics. Biden with Buttigieg as VP. I also like Booker, Warren and Klobuchar. I don't really care about hurting Biden or Kamala's "feelings" at this point. They need to do the right thing, and the right thing is to have a better margin of victory up and down the ticket. I would also be up for, Biden stepping down, as long as it seems like a unified front with the party such that infighting doesn't make dems in a worse position.

[MrGreen]

An interesting data point. Prior to Regan, no President had been older than 70 when they LEFT office.

And something else I read that really makes your eyes open. Bill Clinton was President 30 years ago and he's younger than both Biden and Trump. Ugh.

[Cawl]

So, you'd rather have Trump?

Let's be honest. Both Biden and Trump are too old to be president. But right now, one of the 2 is going to win the election. Pick.

I hope Republicans are proud of themselves.

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

I am tempted to vote for Biden. Really looking forward to dying in a trench in Iran or Ukraine because God fucking forbid we not escalate a war.

Edit: I'm just enjoying how many people have to do 180's to say "Biden isn't mentally fit." He hasn't been mentally fit.. ever actually.

The man is in his 80s. Of course he's not mentally fit to be president. Neither is Trump. Their mental fitness 30 years ago is not relevant to the discussion today. Neither are physically fit enough to be president. Also not relevant at this point. Do I wish that we had completely different people on the ballot? Yes. But we are stuck.

The only thing that is relevant is what's going to happen if they become president. We know what will happen with Trump, because he was president. We know what will happen with Biden, because he is president. Same themes, different times. Pick your poison.

Edit:
Randomly saw this online, and it is perfectly phrased:
"They were both absolutely atrocious last night but at this point you're voting for a cabinet + administration."

It's not about the men at this point. It is about every person who excused this by saying "Biden used to stutter" getting nuked from orbit so hard that the tectonic plates upon which they stood cracked from the onslaught. It is about ridiculous partisans who hid from reality based on lies the media told them getting a cold splash of reality.

And I am laughing so hard about it.

[Cawl]

The question is, are we stuck? Is it remotely possible that the people closest to Biden will tell him, remember how you said you were going to be  one term president? You did your job, time to pass the mantle.  And let the Dems do, which they USED to be good at, back room deal of picking who is on the ticket for the best chances for re election. My pics. Biden with Buttigieg as VP. I also like Booker, Warren and Klobuchar. I don't really care about hurting Biden or Kamala's "feelings" at this point. They need to do the right thing, and the right thing is to have a better margin of victory up and down the ticket.

Yes. You are stuck. Welcome to nightmarish dystopia you elected.

[partgypsy]

So, you'd rather have Trump?

Let's be honest. Both Biden and Trump are too old to be president. But right now, one of the 2 is going to win the election. Pick.

I hope Republicans are proud of themselves.

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

I am tempted to vote for Biden. Really looking forward to dying in a trench in Iran or Ukraine because God fucking forbid we not escalate a war.

Edit: I'm just enjoying how many people have to do 180's to say "Biden isn't mentally fit." He hasn't been mentally fit.. ever actually.

The man is in his 80s. Of course he's not mentally fit to be president. Neither is Trump. Their mental fitness 30 years ago is not relevant to the discussion today. Neither are physically fit enough to be president. Also not relevant at this point. Do I wish that we had completely different people on the ballot? Yes. But we are stuck.

The only thing that is relevant is what's going to happen if they become president. We know what will happen with Trump, because he was president. We know what will happen with Biden, because he is president. Same themes, different times. Pick your poison.

Edit:
Randomly saw this online, and it is perfectly phrased:
"They were both absolutely atrocious last night but at this point you're voting for a cabinet + administration."

true. it is more about voting for a cabinet + administration. One that is barely holding the line of what we know of as a democracy, and another trying as hard as they can to dig out the underpinnings.
 
All the same I don't agree just because he is 80 makes him unfit. When my Dad was Biden's age he was very vital. My father could have, verbally wiped the floor with Trump (although he would have probably ended up calling him an asshole). And whether his age, a cold, whatever, Biden could not. 

[ATtiny85]

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The US is not what is seen in the media, on social media, or on boards like this. The US is in no danger of becoming unrecognizable from those who actually understand what we are.

[iris lily]

I watched. It was -ouch. Is it too late for Pete buttigieg to run?

That would be nice.

[MDM]

Biden and his performance were both exactly what I expected.  He's a very frail older man.  Where is the shock and surprise coming from?

Perhaps from people who believed Karine Jean-Pierre claiming Biden videos are deepfakes, and got to see a live, uncut version for themselves.

[GuitarStv]

So, you'd rather have Trump?

Let's be honest. Both Biden and Trump are too old to be president. But right now, one of the 2 is going to win the election. Pick.

I hope Republicans are proud of themselves.

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The Republicans have been off the deep end and swimming out to sea for so long that nobody expects them to field a non-insane contender any more.

Biden's a reasonable guy, he has good advisers around him to help him out, he hasn't had a terrible presidency.  He's way the fuck too old though, and has been seeming to lose his shit for some time now.  FFS, Biden said he was going to be a one term president - I just thought it was going to be a voluntary decision, he wasn't going to wait until his age lost him the election that otherwise the Democrats should win handily.

[Sibley]

All the same I don't agree just because he is 80 makes him unfit. When my Dad was Biden's age he was very vital. My father could have, verbally wiped the floor with Trump (although he would have probably ended up calling him an asshole). And whether his age, a cold, whatever, Biden could not.

In other areas of life, he may be perfectly fit. As the President of the United States, no 80 year old has the physical or mental stamina to do the job as it needs to be done. Look at the before and after pictures of Obama, Clinton, etc - they are aged far more than you'd expect in 4 years. If the job has that effect on a healthy 30/40 year old, imagine how much worse it is on for a 80 year old. I don't want even a 70 year old in that job. 60 is pushing it. I'm quite certain that at some point, it's going to come out how much the cabinet, staff, VP, etc have taken on because Biden just can't do it. And I'm not ok with that.

[Sibley]

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The US is not what is seen in the media, on social media, or on boards like this. The US is in no danger of becoming unrecognizable from those who actually understand what we are.

Are you sure?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

[Ron Scott]

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The US is not what is seen in the media, on social media, or on boards like this. The US is in no danger of becoming unrecognizable from those who actually understand what we are.

I got the same feeling when Trump famously said “I love the uneducated.”

[GuitarStv]

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The US is not what is seen in the media, on social media, or on boards like this. The US is in no danger of becoming unrecognizable from those who actually understand what we are.

Are you sure?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

I find project 2025 to be much more terrifying than just another Trump presidency on it's own.  It really is a plan to radically re-shape the fabric of the US.  Given the tremendous success that the extreme right has already had in stacking the Supreme Court I think that it would be a mistake to take the danger lightly.

[Sailor Sam]

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The US is not what is seen in the media, on social media, or on boards like this. The US is in no danger of becoming unrecognizable from those who actually understand what we are.

I am genuinely interested in your view of what we are, if you’re willing to elaborate.

[partgypsy]

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The US is not what is seen in the media, on social media, or on boards like this. The US is in no danger of becoming unrecognizable from those who actually understand what we are.

Are you sure?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

It is happening already. The supreme court justices appointed to the court, and the string of decisions that have reshaped the guardrails of much of what we take for granted.

roe vs Wade. Yes, it did away for protections for abortion for woman. Very common sense protections that are graduated based on the trimester and the viability of the fetus. But, by overturning Roe vs Wade it also did away with: the ability for women to have right to privacy of their medical, health and reproductive decisions. As many subsequent rulings granting rights of privacy to private individuals (including marriages between white and blacks) were based on Roe, it also throws those rights to privacy into doubt.

Citizens United. It states that corporations are "people" and their version of freedom of speech is money.

Overturning Exxon. The original ruling stated that when there are rules and laws and corporations sue such as to be able to pollute, that the definitions used will be that of the regulatory agency. Now it states that the supreme or other courts can decide what those rulings and definitions are instead. It seems minor but it gives a huge amount of power now to the supreme court. It encourages corporations ignore regulations and if caught, go to court and bankrupt or ride out clocks rather than abide by decades-long agreed upon rules, legislations and laws.

Limiting scope of anti corruption laws. Cavanagh et all, with a strong opposing and condemming rebuke from Kagan, weakened corruption laws, in particular stating that gifts after the fact are perfectly legal. That is, you can't bribe the politican/judge ahead of time. But you can let them know how you want them to vote or rule, and then after they do so, reward them.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-limits-scope-of-anti-bribery-law/

Trump pointed out that supreme court didn't outlaw contraception or the day after pill. Not exactly, they declined to hear the case. Which means at any point they can decide to hear or revisit this case, such as after the election. They have given themselves the power to outlaw the pill based on states arguments. And given how contraceptive pills may be used to induce abortion it may be extended to oral contraceptives as well.

As you can imagine, the landscape of US is vastly different than it was even 10 years ago.


This is going to be a nightmarish situation for the foreseeable future. A possible, but remote correction to the republican packing of the Supreme Court would be to expand the court. The only way to accomplish this however would be to have democrats control both the house, senate and presidency at the same time... obviously unlikely.

https://time.com/6074707/republicans-courts-congress-mcconnell/
 

[Sibley]

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The US is not what is seen in the media, on social media, or on boards like this. The US is in no danger of becoming unrecognizable from those who actually understand what we are.

Are you sure?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

It is happening already. The supreme court justices appointed to the court, and the string of decisions that have reshaped the guardrails of much of what we take for granted.

roe vs Wade. Yes, it did away for protections for abortion for woman. Very common sense protections that are graduated based on the trimester and the viability of the fetus. But, by overturning Roe vs Wade it also did away with: the ability for women to have right to privacy of their medical, health and reproductive decisions. As many subsequent rulings granting rights of privacy to private individuals (including marriages between white and blacks) were based on Roe, it also throws those rights to privacy into doubt.

Citizens United. It states that corporations are "people" and their version of freedom of speech is money.

Overturning Exxon. The original ruling stated that when there are rules and laws and corporations sue such as to be able to pollute, that the definitions used will be that of the regulatory agency. Now it states that the supreme or other courts can decide what those rulings and definitions are instead. It seems minor but it gives a huge amount of power now to the supreme court. It encourages corporations ignore regulations and if caught, go to court and bankrupt or ride out clocks rather than abide by decades-long agreed upon rules, legislations and laws.

Limiting scope of anti corruption laws. Cavanagh et all, with a strong opposing and condemming rebuke from Kagan, weakened corruption laws, in particular stating that gifts after the fact are perfectly legal. That is, you can't bribe the politican/judge ahead of time. But you can let them know how you want them to vote or rule, and then after they do so, reward them.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-limits-scope-of-anti-bribery-law/

Trump pointed out that supreme court didn't outlaw contraception or the day after pill. Not exactly, they declined to hear the case. Which means at any point they can decide to hear or revisit this case, such as after the election. They have given themselves the power to outlaw the pill based on states arguments. And given how contraceptive pills may be used to induce abortion it may be extended to oral contraceptives as well.

As you can imagine, the landscape of US is vastly different than it was even 10 years ago.


This is going to be a nightmarish situation for the foreseeable future. A possible, but remote correction to the republican packing of the Supreme Court would be to expand the court. The only way to accomplish this however would be to have democrats control both the house, senate and presidency at the same time... obviously unlikely.

https://time.com/6074707/republicans-courts-congress-mcconnell/

I don't think a lot of people have quite realized exactly how fucked the US is right now, even if Biden wins in November.

We're headed back to the times before regulation - when rivers caught on fire due to the pollution in the rivers, when people got sick and died from the food and medicine because of bad ingredients. Like sausage or hamburger? Your days of eating it may be numbered because it's simply too easy to put sawdust and other non-edible things into ground meat. Child labor, the company store. Not a fan of unions? You may find out exactly why they became so powerful and essential.

Yes, we can avert it. But it won't be easy.

[ATtiny85]

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The US is not what is seen in the media, on social media, or on boards like this. The US is in no danger of becoming unrecognizable from those who actually understand what we are.

I am genuinely interested in your view of what we are, if you’re willing to elaborate.

Ehh, I am not articulate enough to explain my thoughts with the typed word (and yelling from a pulpit likely not much better.) Plus, this is not the place for it anyway since it would be met with the normal feedback that I see here that is not constructive and thus not interesting to me.

However, it does start with the Declaration of Independence. Not the text specifically, though it does an decent job of portraying the idea, but rather the entire situation and methods that were used.

The USA is a weird beast with roots that are difficult to understand, especially when viewed with today's lenses. Fighting through the noise factors and considering the how, what, and why of the nation's successful formation, provides me with a lot of confidence for our future. Of course, backing up to "unrecognizable statement", one has to first define what that means, and no way any group would really come to agreement, so any discussion would go in circles. We certainly have gone in the wrong directions with a number of things. That has happened many times in the past, and it will take some vision and dedication to "correct", but the system works, just needs time sometimes. Unfortunately, in the meantime, it will be uncomfortable for some.

[EvenSteven]

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The US is not what is seen in the media, on social media, or on boards like this. The US is in no danger of becoming unrecognizable from those who actually understand what we are.

I am genuinely interested in your view of what we are, if you’re willing to elaborate.

Ehh, I am not articulate enough to explain my thoughts with the typed word (and yelling from a pulpit likely not much better.) Plus, this is not the place for it anyway since it would be met with the normal feedback that I see here that is not constructive and thus not interesting to me.

However, it does start with the Declaration of Independence. Not the text specifically, though it does an decent job of portraying the idea, but rather the entire situation and methods that were used.

The USA is a weird beast with roots that are difficult to understand, especially when viewed with today's lenses. Fighting through the noise factors and considering the how, what, and why of the nation's successful formation, provides me with a lot of confidence for our future. Of course, backing up to "unrecognizable statement", one has to first define what that means, and no way any group would really come to agreement, so any discussion would go in circles. We certainly have gone in the wrong directions with a number of things. That has happened many times in the past, and it will take some vision and dedication to "correct", but the system works, just needs time sometimes. Unfortunately, in the meantime, it will be uncomfortable for some.

Your confidence in France's ability to step in and save us in 2025 is admirable.

[StarBright]

The question is, are we stuck? Is it remotely possible that the people closest to Biden will tell him, remember how you said you were going to be  one term president? You did your job, time to pass the mantle.  And let the Dems do, which they USED to be good at, back room deal of picking who is on the ticket for the best chances for re election. My pics. Biden with Buttigieg as VP. I also like Booker, Warren and Klobuchar. I don't really care about hurting Biden or Kamala's "feelings" at this point. They need to do the right thing, and the right thing is to have a better margin of victory up and down the ticket.

Yes. You are stuck. Welcome to nightmarish dystopia you elected.

The Dems didn't really want to run Biden again- everyone knows he is older than is optimal. Newsome and Gretch would not have been out there making so much noise early in the process if the party was all-in on Biden. They are 100% party players so the fact that they were out there taking interviews and drumming up speculation last fall tells you they had the blessing of the party. If someone else other than Trump would have won the nomination the Dems would have run someone else. (Kamala or Newsome most likely depending on if the Repubs ran Haley or ?)

Unfortunately, Biden was the only option who was actually competitive with Trump (and I believe still is the only candidate who polls with Trump). I do wonder if Trump's convictions might change the calculus there now, but hard to put too much weight on that 6 months ago.

[partgypsy]

We have had 15+ years of Republicans packing the court all the way down the line, with the federalist society vetted choices. Republican presidents choose based on ideology, not on fitness to serve. I really have no confidence in the current supreme Court. Which means, checks and balance as formed by our founders, no longer is operating. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/07/01/donald-trump-immunity-supreme-court-ruling.html. I mean eyes are watching so hopefully they will not be so blatant and show they are completely bought and paid for. But democracy is on the freaking ropes.

[Cawl]

https://youtu.be/1kKUye23KBQ?si=RrXKYgw4_I2hBT3_

Amazing video by Orf.

[Sailor Sam]

Really, I hope that the US exists in some recognizable way in 30 years.

The US is not what is seen in the media, on social media, or on boards like this. The US is in no danger of becoming unrecognizable from those who actually understand what we are.

I am genuinely interested in your view of what we are, if you’re willing to elaborate.

Ehh, I am not articulate enough to explain my thoughts with the typed word (and yelling from a pulpit likely not much better.) Plus, this is not the place for it anyway since it would be met with the normal feedback that I see here that is not constructive and thus not interesting to me.

However, it does start with the Declaration of Independence. Not the text specifically, though it does an decent job of portraying the idea, but rather the entire situation and methods that were used.

The USA is a weird beast with roots that are difficult to understand, especially when viewed with today's lenses. Fighting through the noise factors and considering the how, what, and why of the nation's successful formation, provides me with a lot of confidence for our future. Of course, backing up to "unrecognizable statement", one has to first define what that means, and no way any group would really come to agreement, so any discussion would go in circles. We certainly have gone in the wrong directions with a number of things. That has happened many times in the past, and it will take some vision and dedication to "correct", but the system works, just needs time sometimes. Unfortunately, in the meantime, it will be uncomfortable for some.

Cool, thanks for answering.

[jrhampt]

My thoughts on this is that the Dems are making a dumpster fire out of nothing, completely undermining Biden's candidacy by panicking and that is all that they will ultimately accomplish.  Is Biden old?  Yeah.  We already knew that.  Is Trump also old?  Yes.  He's also a ***convicted felon***, asshole, liar, rapist, traitor etc., and you don't see the Republicans running around in a panic trying to replace him.  The entire editorial board of the NY Times collectively shit themselves the morning following the debate, and I will be canceling my subscription since they are repeating the mistakes of 2016, when they helped get Trump elected the first time.  Pull your shit together people and stop living in a fantasy.  The SC decision this morning should have a focusing effect.  Focus.

[OzzieandHarriet]

@jrhampt - yes!

I also canceled my NYT subscription today.

[nereo]

My thoughts on this is that the Dems are making a dumpster fire out of nothing, completely undermining Biden's candidacy by panicking and that is all that they will ultimately accomplish.  Is Biden old?  Yeah.  We already knew that.  Is Trump also old?  Yes.  He's also a ***convicted felon***, asshole, liar, rapist, traitor etc., and you don't see the Republicans running around in a panic trying to replace him.  The entire editorial board of the NY Times collectively shit themselves the morning following the debate, and I will be canceling my subscription since they are repeating the mistakes of 2016, when they helped get Trump elected the first time.  Pull your shit together people and stop living in a fantasy.  The SC decision this morning should have a focusing effect.  Focus.

I'm looking at it this way:  'What's Changed following the debate'?

In sum: not much.  I don't wonder what a Biden presidency would look like because we've been living it for the past 3.5 years.  Broadly speaking it's about what I expected, and fairly traditional and centrist as US administrations go.  We also don't really need to wonder about what a Trump presidency would be like, because we lived through that too.  Even more importantly, both candidates are largely promising to follow their same path. 

Biden came off looking feeble and very off balance. Not a great look, but again we've already seen how a Biden administration might function.  I'm frankly a bit surprised at how little focus there has been on Trump's debate performance. Whereas the main consensus of Biden was that he looked and acted really old, Trump seemed completely unhinged from reality at times. The moderators took flak for not fact-checking him in real time, but somehow Trump gets a pass on saying a whole bunch of  truly off-the-wall, demonstrably untrue things.

I guess it was a successful strategy on Trump's part:  Spend months talking about how old your opponent is, and then we have a debate and everyone goes - hey, he's right... Biden really is old!  The amount of attention that's been paid to the actual views and proposed policies has been negligible.

[Samuel]

If the last couple responses are where Democrat opinion settles post debate we are so screwed.