Author Topic: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?  (Read 61906 times)

slappy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #500 on: September 15, 2017, 09:26:53 AM »
Anyone have a link to the posts discussed above with Lhamo & Frankiesgirl?

I think this has the all caps Lhamo response. It also has the image of a facepunch from one poster.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/case-studies/case-study-$800-000-in-debt-and-where-to-start/

Basenji

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« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 09:31:31 AM by Basenji »

Goldielocks

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #502 on: September 15, 2017, 09:52:50 AM »
I've noticed a few good facepunches recently. Llamo gave one in all caps about car payments in a case study. Gave me a warm fuzzy.

I've always refrained from diving into giving advice here, like someone said upthread, because I don't feel like I'm an expert. But maybe I'll chime in on the case studies more to encourage/punch newbies.

I've noticed some lately as well. Frankiesgirl has had some great posts. Another person actually posted a picture of a facepunch.
That's funny. During the same time, I gave a whiny newb a suggestion of a facepunch and she complained to the mods. Several weeks later, she's all but disappeared. When I saw lhamo's CAPS, read FG's pithy responses, and saw the facepunch meme, I cheered.

Don't call the coroner just yet. The collective mind is far from life support.

:-)

I too, get my knickers in a knot when someone tells me to put on my big girl pants..... especially if deserved!
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Check2400

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #503 on: September 15, 2017, 12:01:48 PM »
I have been following this post, and explicitly because Bracken_joy called us all out on not helping on case studies I made a point to try and give advice to the poster of the $800,000 referenced below.

The facepunch pic in that thread was great, needed, and done for a purpose.  Lhamo's post was not.  IMO Facepunch is a term used to say the harsh truth in order to teach.  Calling someone unbelievably stupid or insane isn't a facepunch, it is a personal attack that is itself insane or unbelievably stupid. 

Worse, the criticism was off mark, and reflects that lhamo responded with an admitted lack of patience instead of an actual attempt to help.  In two weeks time, this person has paid off massive CC debt, begun selling an investment property to pay off massive personal loans, and is wrapping his head around how to best get out of two terrible car loans.  He is on fire, but in the grand breakdown of his debts, the cars and any cost he may have to spend to get out of those loans is best served addressing his 10%+ personal loan fire, not the car loan.  Once again-this is in two weeks time. 

I'll be the first to admit the gung ho blog/facebook/twitter etc. of that OP is extremely odd (I dunno, maybe he needs to social affirmation to keep going?) but he isn't Beatles, and his sig line explicitly states: Please don't mistake my ignorance for arrogance. 

I think there is a fine line between facepunching someone along the path, and knocking them out.  Indoctrination takes more than a day---blenders not included :)

Lastly, lhamo, I am not trying to pick an internet fight, you're almost exclusively super great and positive, I just think for this particular person's path that Super Saiyan facepunch was premature, but we can agree to disagree!


4alpacas

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #504 on: September 15, 2017, 12:40:07 PM »
The facepunch pic in that thread was great, needed, and done for a purpose.  Lhamo's post was not.  IMO Facepunch is a term used to say the harsh truth in order to teach.  Calling someone unbelievably stupid or insane isn't a facepunch, it is a personal attack that is itself insane or unbelievably stupid. 

Worse, the criticism was off mark, and reflects that lhamo responded with an admitted lack of patience instead of an actual attempt to help.  In two weeks time, this person has paid off massive CC debt, begun selling an investment property to pay off massive personal loans, and is wrapping his head around how to best get out of two terrible car loans.  He is on fire, but in the grand breakdown of his debts, the cars and any cost he may have to spend to get out of those loans is best served addressing his 10%+ personal loan fire, not the car loan.  Once again-this is in two weeks time. 
lhamo's reaction wasn't in response to the original post, but the continued excuses made by the OP.  Also, the rationalization of the expenses was a bit off the wall. I also think the OP took the criticism well (and it appears to have sunk in).

I can't even comment...

And, this is SO non mustachian, but I only did Botox today instead of Botox and filler. Saved several hundred dollars. <ducks the face punches>
[/url]

spartana

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #505 on: September 15, 2017, 01:37:44 PM »
Yeah, I've been losing my patience a lot lately.....
To be honest I can't blame you. You guys are a lot more patient then me (and doesn't help much that I'm a low expenses FIREee so get extra "WTF?"ish with high expenses people). I tryed to her Bracken Joys request to help with the case studies but couldn't do it. A
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4alpacas

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #506 on: September 15, 2017, 01:44:23 PM »
Yeah, I've been losing my patience a lot lately.....
To be honest I can't blame you. You guys are a lot more patient then me (and doesn't help much that I'm a low expenses FIREee so get extra "WTF?"ish with high expenses people). I tryed to her Bracken Joys request to help with the case studies but couldn't do it. A
Feel free to follow me around the forum and facepunch me.  I <3 low expense people reminding me that I'm burning money.

spartana

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #507 on: September 15, 2017, 02:11:33 PM »
Yeah, I've been losing my patience a lot lately.....
To be honest I can't blame you. You guys are a lot more patient then me (and doesn't help much that I'm a low expenses FIREee so get extra "WTF?"ish with high expenses people). I tryed to her Bracken Joys request to help with the case studies but couldn't do it. A
Feel free to follow me around the forum and facepunch me.  I <3 low expense people reminding me that I'm burning money.
I'd be happy too. But only because your avatar is my favorite of all the avatars on.this forum ;-)
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honeybbq

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #508 on: September 15, 2017, 02:18:46 PM »
Blenders,  Gah...  No one that posted about a vitamix was doing so because they were caring for a person that could not chew...

Actually, that's not true. But you had to make it to the end of the thread.

lhamo

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #509 on: September 15, 2017, 02:43:33 PM »
I have been following this post, and explicitly because Bracken_joy called us all out on not helping on case studies I made a point to try and give advice to the poster of the $800,000 referenced below.

The facepunch pic in that thread was great, needed, and done for a purpose.  Lhamo's post was not.  IMO Facepunch is a term used to say the harsh truth in order to teach.  Calling someone unbelievably stupid or insane isn't a facepunch, it is a personal attack that is itself insane or unbelievably stupid. 

Worse, the criticism was off mark, and reflects that lhamo responded with an admitted lack of patience instead of an actual attempt to help.  In two weeks time, this person has paid off massive CC debt, begun selling an investment property to pay off massive personal loans, and is wrapping his head around how to best get out of two terrible car loans.  He is on fire, but in the grand breakdown of his debts, the cars and any cost he may have to spend to get out of those loans is best served addressing his 10%+ personal loan fire, not the car loan.  Once again-this is in two weeks time. 

I'll be the first to admit the gung ho blog/facebook/twitter etc. of that OP is extremely odd (I dunno, maybe he needs to social affirmation to keep going?) but he isn't Beatles, and his sig line explicitly states: Please don't mistake my ignorance for arrogance. 

I think there is a fine line between facepunching someone along the path, and knocking them out.  Indoctrination takes more than a day---blenders not included :)

Lastly, lhamo, I am not trying to pick an internet fight, you're almost exclusively super great and positive, I just think for this particular person's path that Super Saiyan facepunch was premature, but we can agree to disagree!

You're right -- my post was inappropriate/unhelpful and I have apologized and tried to explain what made me go crazy.  The guy is totally stuck in a sunk cost fallacy.  He didn't want to take the immediate hit on the cars because somehow he doesn't realize that that money is gone, gone gone.  He put off the pain of dealing with the upsidedown lease four years ago, got into an even worse loan, and now somehow thinks that letting that situation drag out for four more years is going to make it ok. 
Wherever you go, there you are

ubermom4

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #510 on: September 15, 2017, 03:39:29 PM »
OP -- thanks for posing the question. I haven't read all of the posts (am still dragging through the blender insanity). Have been here a long time, post seldom but used to learn a lot and enjoy the 'vibe'. Many of the old posters are not as active -- they have moved on (FIRE or something else). I agree with the softening/tolerating complainy pants of the forums. We are surrounded by wimps -- that is why we fled the real world to MMM. To me the issue is best summed up in the diminution of profanity. I believe that MMM had a posting about the importance of profanity. Hey, complaining sheeple/consumer suckas, STFU!

Cali Nonya

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #511 on: September 15, 2017, 03:51:52 PM »
https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll/intelligent-people-more-likely-to-use-cuss-words-study/1134317

"Scientifically" proven that more intelligent people cuss more.  So maybe we do need a bit more cussing on this forum.
Personally I prefer the stat included in the above article that also imply more intelligent people are more likely to wander around their house naked, though I am not too how that would apply to a forum.

Goldielocks

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #512 on: September 15, 2017, 04:08:45 PM »

And, this is SO non mustachian, but I only did Botox today instead of Botox and filler. Saved several hundred dollars. <ducks the face punches>
[/url]

I had to look up hadilly,  when I saw this.... many typical posts, about batch cooking veggies and Goodwill.. and then a suggestion to buy Eileen Fischer pants, because they wear like iron.   (These are $US168 to $US248, sometimes on sale for $US89)...   me thinks that blowing a few hundred dollars here and there throughout the year is not an issue.... 

Oh,  and I had to check how often Botox needs to repeat -- something like 2-3x per year..$500+ per time without fillers.

Dicey

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #513 on: September 15, 2017, 04:37:12 PM »
https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll/intelligent-people-more-likely-to-use-cuss-words-study/1134317

"Scientifically" proven that more intelligent people cuss more.  So maybe we do need a bit more cussing on this forum.
Personally I prefer the stat included in the above article that also imply more intelligent people are more likely to wander around their house naked, though I am not too how that would apply to a forum.
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Bracken_Joy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #514 on: September 15, 2017, 05:27:24 PM »
I am soooo happy to know I guilted encouraged so many of you to participate in case studies ;)

I actually HAVE noticed a massive increase in replies! And have you noticed- a big corresponding increase in more UNIQUE case studies being posted as a result? Pretty cool. It's like when the case studies sub was introduced, all over again.

Thanks you guys! Lets keep it up. I think the nice balance of some face-punchy/some softer/all good'n'MMM indoctrinating really helps get people moving in the right direction =D
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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #515 on: September 15, 2017, 05:37:34 PM »
https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll/intelligent-people-more-likely-to-use-cuss-words-study/1134317

"Scientifically" proven that more intelligent people cuss more.  So maybe we do need a bit more cussing on this forum.
Personally I prefer the stat included in the above article that also imply more intelligent people are more likely to wander around their house naked, though I am not too how that would apply to a forum.
I'm guessing quite a few members are already posting naked on this forum.
Just food for thought...
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GuitarStv

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #516 on: September 15, 2017, 05:42:19 PM »
The real question is . . . why would you wear clothes to post?

marty998

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #517 on: September 15, 2017, 05:43:47 PM »
I have posted a few times naked on the forum.

Several times in combination with being drunk as well...

Travis

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #518 on: September 15, 2017, 06:31:48 PM »
I have been following this post, and explicitly because Bracken_joy called us all out on not helping on case studies I made a point to try and give advice to the poster of the $800,000 referenced below.

The facepunch pic in that thread was great, needed, and done for a purpose.  Lhamo's post was not.  IMO Facepunch is a term used to say the harsh truth in order to teach.  Calling someone unbelievably stupid or insane isn't a facepunch, it is a personal attack that is itself insane or unbelievably stupid. 

Worse, the criticism was off mark, and reflects that lhamo responded with an admitted lack of patience instead of an actual attempt to help.  In two weeks time, this person has paid off massive CC debt, begun selling an investment property to pay off massive personal loans, and is wrapping his head around how to best get out of two terrible car loans.  He is on fire, but in the grand breakdown of his debts, the cars and any cost he may have to spend to get out of those loans is best served addressing his 10%+ personal loan fire, not the car loan.  Once again-this is in two weeks time. 

I'll be the first to admit the gung ho blog/facebook/twitter etc. of that OP is extremely odd (I dunno, maybe he needs to social affirmation to keep going?) but he isn't Beatles, and his sig line explicitly states: Please don't mistake my ignorance for arrogance. 

I think there is a fine line between facepunching someone along the path, and knocking them out.  Indoctrination takes more than a day---blenders not included :)

Lastly, lhamo, I am not trying to pick an internet fight, you're almost exclusively super great and positive, I just think for this particular person's path that Super Saiyan facepunch was premature, but we can agree to disagree!

You're right -- my post was inappropriate/unhelpful and I have apologized and tried to explain what made me go crazy.  The guy is totally stuck in a sunk cost fallacy.  He didn't want to take the immediate hit on the cars because somehow he doesn't realize that that money is gone, gone gone.  He put off the pain of dealing with the upsidedown lease four years ago, got into an even worse loan, and now somehow thinks that letting that situation drag out for four more years is going to make it ok.

I'm enjoying that thread because 1) I had something useful to say at the beginning and 2) he has to be one of the most appreciative and cooperative case study posters in a while.  It floored me when he came back the next day and said "credit cards are done, now what?"  He still has a lot to learn and is stuck in some financial and psychological traps, but he's enthusiastic about identifying and fixing them.
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RetiredAt63

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #519 on: September 16, 2017, 08:29:28 AM »
I just wish posters would put their country in the title - I am not going to be of more than general use in case studies, except for Canadians.  But I will happily discuss RRSPs versus TFSAs, and point out that you can't compare yourself to Americans when you are Canadian, because our % of expenses differs and so do our tax rules.
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Kriegsspiel

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #520 on: September 16, 2017, 09:45:41 AM »
I have posted a few times naked on the forum.

Several times in combination with being drunk as well...

I'm posting naked and drunk right now, and loving it!

ubermom4

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #521 on: September 16, 2017, 12:39:27 PM »
I don't want to distract from the naked and/or drunken areas but wanted to add that I think we are getting too many 'regular' people to the forums rather than engineers who are interested in optimizing everything.  The sheer volume of postings and their repetitive nature can be a turn off (especially if you are drunk or naked). I do think that these forums are helping neophytes and lurkers -- patience testers for mustachians. OP -- thanks for letting us vent here!

4alpacas

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #522 on: September 16, 2017, 11:01:35 PM »

And, this is SO non mustachian, but I only did Botox today instead of Botox and filler. Saved several hundred dollars. <ducks the face punches>
[/url]

I had to look up hadilly,  when I saw this.... many typical posts, about batch cooking veggies and Goodwill.. and then a suggestion to buy Eileen Fischer pants, because they wear like iron.   (These are $US168 to $US248, sometimes on sale for $US89)...   me thinks that blowing a few hundred dollars here and there throughout the year is not an issue.... 
But maybe hadilly buys used Eileen Fischer pants.  I know I purchase expensive brands used on eBay for about 10% of the new price. 
Quote
Oh,  and I had to check how often Botox needs to repeat -- something like 2-3x per year..$500+ per time without fillers.
WHAT?! I guess I thought it would stick for a few years.  No way would I want to get vanity shots 2-3x/year.  And spend over $1k/year to have a forehead that doesn't move. 

To everyone posting without clothing, where do you set your laptop? Do you sit in a chair with no pants?  I have too many questions. 

yakamashii

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #523 on: September 16, 2017, 11:14:54 PM »

And, this is SO non mustachian, but I only did Botox today instead of Botox and filler. Saved several hundred dollars. <ducks the face punches>
[/url]

I had to look up hadilly,  when I saw this.... many typical posts, about batch cooking veggies and Goodwill.. and then a suggestion to buy Eileen Fischer pants, because they wear like iron.   (These are $US168 to $US248, sometimes on sale for $US89)...   me thinks that blowing a few hundred dollars here and there throughout the year is not an issue.... 
But maybe hadilly buys used Eileen Fischer pants.  I know I purchase expensive brands used on eBay for about 10% of the new price. 
Quote
Oh,  and I had to check how often Botox needs to repeat -- something like 2-3x per year..$500+ per time without fillers.
WHAT?! I guess I thought it would stick for a few years.  No way would I want to get vanity shots 2-3x/year.  And spend over $1k/year to have a forehead that doesn't move. 

To everyone posting without clothing, where do you set your laptop? Do you sit in a chair with no pants?  I have too many questions. 

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englishteacheralex

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #524 on: September 17, 2017, 12:48:47 AM »
On MMM today:

I just saw a post to OP asking where to buy essential oils (for less).
One poster suggested buying them while on vacation in Bali because they are so cheap there.  !!!
---------------------

To be fair that post was from super frugal Jo-Jo and she didn't say you should go to Bali to get oils but that you should look for them if you are on vacation somewhere as they might be much cheaper. She merely mentioned that she happened to pick some up cheap in Bali while travelling (which she does frugally).

I know, but without the backstory, the post could have been read by the general guest as an endorsement for Bali travel, too, as a way to save money...  espeicially as the OP was simply looking for an answer like "here is a link to make your own"... "go to walmart"... etc.
That's true. Lots of new members here that could take her Bali post wrong. Personally I think she should have paid $12k to get her private pilots license, then $100k to buy a small plane, then a few thousand for fuel to fly herself to Bali to but discounted oils. DIY MMM style! Or maybe hit a local Head shop (do they still have those) and but some Patchouli oil cheap ;-).

I was the OP on the essential oils thread. About halfway done with earning my pilot's license. Those cheap essential oils will be mine...

Actually I just lost interest and never bothered with them. Which is what I do with almost all of my consumer wishes. After posting about them in the MMM forums.
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dragoncar

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #525 on: September 17, 2017, 04:58:11 PM »
I didn't read the thread, but I do feel like essential oils are one of those things that are produced industrially very cheaply and marked up like crazy.  So there's nothing inherently wrong with buying some cheap essential oils if you can find them. 

marty998

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #526 on: September 18, 2017, 02:41:57 AM »
What, prey tell, are the oils essential for?

(I am fully clothed on a public train posting this time FWIW).

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #527 on: September 18, 2017, 03:19:05 AM »
(I am fully clothed on a public train posting this time FWIW).

Who's a clever boy. :P

englishteacheralex

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #528 on: September 18, 2017, 06:05:00 AM »
My husband asked the same question enough times that I gave up on getting the essential oils, even on the cheap. He said they should be called optional oils.

They just make a room smell nice if you put them in the cute little diffusers all my friends have. They're just nice, ok? Optional, but nice oils.
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frugalparagon

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #529 on: September 18, 2017, 08:05:54 AM »
I didn't read the thread, but I do feel like essential oils are one of those things that are produced industrially very cheaply and marked up like crazy.  So there's nothing inherently wrong with buying some cheap essential oils if you can find them.

IME some brands do not smell as strong as others. And smelling is the whole point.

My husband asked the same question enough times that I gave up on getting the essential oils, even on the cheap. He said they should be called optional oils.

They just make a room smell nice if you put them in the cute little diffusers all my friends have. They're just nice, ok? Optional, but nice oils.

Luxury oils, maybe? :-)

I am not one of those people who thinks that essential oils do anything. I just like to add them to my bath with coconut oil because I try to avoid artificial fragrance.
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shelivesthedream

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #530 on: September 18, 2017, 08:15:34 AM »
Y'all do know that essential oils aren't called essential because you can't live without them, right? It's because they contain the 'essence' of whatever plant it is. (Please excuse me if my sense of humour just failed. To atone, have some 'essential' humour: https://www.buzzfeed.com/floperry/sesame-and-poppy-seed-thins?utm_term=.kpX52wnPK#.xn8QoV9Zd)

Kris

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #531 on: September 18, 2017, 08:16:52 AM »
I don't "believe" in any essential oils' properties.

However: Eucalyptus oil is freaking fantastic for freshening up a room with a cat box in it. I always have that stuff on hand. I sprinkle a little bit around and it smells clean and amazing.
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sol

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #532 on: September 18, 2017, 08:22:02 AM »
I don't "believe" in any essential oils' properties.

I believe essential oils have LOTS of properties.  Specific gravity, viscosity, compressibility, temperature...

I am not one of those people who thinks that essential oils do anything. I just like to add them to my bath with coconut oil because I try to avoid artificial fragrance.

You try to avoid artificial fragrance?  By buying artificial fragrance?  What do we think essential oils are, if not artificial?  Any time you extract a chemical from a substance using an industrial process, you have created an artificial product. 

Like just because there is ammonia in guano doesn't make ammonia a natural product.  Essential oils are NOT natural. 

Canadian Ben

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #533 on: September 18, 2017, 08:42:10 AM »
Throw Basil from your garden directly into the bathwater.

100% natural.

dragoncar

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #534 on: September 18, 2017, 09:32:17 AM »
  Any time you extract a chemical from a substance using an industrial process, you have created an artificial product. 


I don't really agree with this.  I'm not saying extracted chemicals are healthier by virtue of their natural occurrence, but there is a difference between naturally occurring chemicals (physically extracted) and a synthetic substance (created through chemistry).

I mean, we industrially extract milk from cows, process and redistribute the fat content, etc.  That doesn't make milk "artificial" IMO

... unless you are another "one of those" I've been running into so much recently :-P

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #535 on: September 18, 2017, 10:38:36 AM »
  Any time you extract a chemical from a substance using an industrial process, you have created an artificial product. 


I don't really agree with this.  I'm not saying extracted chemicals are healthier by virtue of their natural occurrence, but there is a difference between naturally occurring chemicals (physically extracted) and a synthetic substance (created through chemistry).

This isn't strictly true. I'm sure some essential oils fall into each category, and a lot of fragrances can be pinpointed to a single or very few molecules. In such a case, there is absolutely no chemical difference between the molecule extracted from its natural source and the same molecule synthesized in a lab. As long as it's purified reasonably well, there's no difference whatsoever.

Milk is a different story because it's a very complicated substance. "Synthesizing" it would mean creating a huge variety of proteins and fats and getting them mixed together in the right ratios. If it's not impossible it's certainly not cost-effective.

4alpacas

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #536 on: September 18, 2017, 11:08:59 AM »
Throw Basil from your garden directly into the bathwater.
I use rose petals from my garden in my sugar scrub (sugar, rose petals, and coconut oil).  I'm also thinking of trying out rosemary and lavender (both in my garden). 

I use lavender oils to scent my vinegar cleaning spray.  I like the scent.  It's frivolous and ridiculous, but I love it.  Face punch away!  I received a small container of lavender oil about 5 years ago, and I have used about half the bottle.  I don't know how much essential oils cost, but I will probably buy another container in about 5 years. 

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #537 on: September 18, 2017, 11:18:21 AM »
I don't "believe" in any essential oils' properties.

I believe essential oils have LOTS of properties.  Specific gravity, viscosity, compressibility, temperature...

I am not one of those people who thinks that essential oils do anything. I just like to add them to my bath with coconut oil because I try to avoid artificial fragrance.

You try to avoid artificial fragrance?  By buying artificial fragrance?  What do we think essential oils are, if not artificial?  Any time you extract a chemical from a substance using an industrial process, you have created an artificial product. 

Like just because there is ammonia in guano doesn't make ammonia a natural product.  Essential oils are NOT natural.

My wording was imprecise. I do not care for petroleum-based (ie, synthetic) fragrances. You may agree or disagree. It is a personal preference. I prefer the smell and feel of an EV coconut oil/essential oil bath to other methods and it is one of my relatively low-cost little luxuries.

Nope, the community has not gone soft...

Throw Basil from your garden directly into the bathwater.

100% natural.

Sigh. I live in a 565-square foot apartment (with my kids) and my balcony does not get much sun. I didn't even get enough basil for my caprese.
I blog about Mustachianism during the child-raising years at frugalparagon.com.

And I tell the real story in my journal, https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/still-living-well-in-the-living-room-but-what's-my-next-move/

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #538 on: September 18, 2017, 12:36:59 PM »
I don't "believe" in any essential oils' properties.

However: Eucalyptus oil is freaking fantastic for freshening up a room with a cat box in it. I always have that stuff on hand. I sprinkle a little bit around and it smells clean and amazing.

Thanks!!!  I have studiouly avoided all "essential oil" woo-woo (really NOT a new-agey person).  But we are now having serious problems with the cat litter (new rescue cat is missing a front leg, which means she can't cover up effectively -- something that seems so obvious in retrospect but that never occurred to me before we took her home).  I have just picked up some eucalyptus oil and will give it a shot -- if it works, that may be the best $6 I've ever spent. :-)
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

caracarn

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #539 on: September 18, 2017, 12:50:53 PM »
Anyone have a link to the posts discussed above with Lhamo & Frankiesgirl?

Gladly. https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/case-studies/case-study-$800-000-in-debt-and-where-to-start/msg1696431/#msg1696431

I'm forgetting which one had the actual facepunch picture though, but it also was pretty fantastic.
The picture was posted by me.  It was also in that same case study.  He is listening, yet not, so it remains to be seen what steps he'll take.  He's got a lot of complexity to dig through to no way he can do this quickly but still a lot more push back than someone who's just going to dig in and figure it out.

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #540 on: September 18, 2017, 12:52:24 PM »
I don't "believe" in any essential oils' properties.

However: Eucalyptus oil is freaking fantastic for freshening up a room with a cat box in it. I always have that stuff on hand. I sprinkle a little bit around and it smells clean and amazing.

Thanks!!!  I have studiouly avoided all "essential oil" woo-woo (really NOT a new-agey person).  But we are now having serious problems with the cat litter (new rescue cat is missing a front leg, which means she can't cover up effectively -- something that seems so obvious in retrospect but that never occurred to me before we took her home).  I have just picked up some eucalyptus oil and will give it a shot -- if it works, that may be the best $6 I've ever spent. :-)

I hope it works for you. I found out about it because we have a cat that used to pee outside the box somewhat frequently, due in part to an undiagnosed kidney issue. I read that cats do not like the smell of eucalyptus, and so decided to get some in an attempt to get the cat to stop peeing in a particular area. But the bonus was the instantly-fresh smell, and now I sprinkle it around our laundry room (which is also where the cat boxes are) whenever I start to think things are beginning to smell a bit less than fresh. (By the way, I wouldn't sprinkle it in the cat box, due to the cat-repelling qualities I mentioned above...)
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

slappy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #541 on: September 18, 2017, 12:58:15 PM »
I don't "believe" in any essential oils' properties.

However: Eucalyptus oil is freaking fantastic for freshening up a room with a cat box in it. I always have that stuff on hand. I sprinkle a little bit around and it smells clean and amazing.

Thanks!!!  I have studiouly avoided all "essential oil" woo-woo (really NOT a new-agey person).  But we are now having serious problems with the cat litter (new rescue cat is missing a front leg, which means she can't cover up effectively -- something that seems so obvious in retrospect but that never occurred to me before we took her home).  I have just picked up some eucalyptus oil and will give it a shot -- if it works, that may be the best $6 I've ever spent. :-)

I hope it works for you. I found out about it because we have a cat that used to pee outside the box somewhat frequently, due in part to an undiagnosed kidney issue. I read that cats do not like the smell of eucalyptus, and so decided to get some in an attempt to get the cat to stop peeing in a particular area. But the bonus was the instantly-fresh smell, and now I sprinkle it around our laundry room (which is also where the cat boxes are) whenever I start to think things are beginning to smell a bit less than fresh. (By the way, I wouldn't sprinkle it in the cat box, due to the cat-repelling qualities I mentioned above...)

So my cat poops directly outside of the litter box. If I put the oil around the box, will that compel to look for somewhere else in the house to poop?

Kris

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #542 on: September 18, 2017, 01:30:10 PM »
I don't "believe" in any essential oils' properties.

However: Eucalyptus oil is freaking fantastic for freshening up a room with a cat box in it. I always have that stuff on hand. I sprinkle a little bit around and it smells clean and amazing.

Thanks!!!  I have studiouly avoided all "essential oil" woo-woo (really NOT a new-agey person).  But we are now having serious problems with the cat litter (new rescue cat is missing a front leg, which means she can't cover up effectively -- something that seems so obvious in retrospect but that never occurred to me before we took her home).  I have just picked up some eucalyptus oil and will give it a shot -- if it works, that may be the best $6 I've ever spent. :-)

I hope it works for you. I found out about it because we have a cat that used to pee outside the box somewhat frequently, due in part to an undiagnosed kidney issue. I read that cats do not like the smell of eucalyptus, and so decided to get some in an attempt to get the cat to stop peeing in a particular area. But the bonus was the instantly-fresh smell, and now I sprinkle it around our laundry room (which is also where the cat boxes are) whenever I start to think things are beginning to smell a bit less than fresh. (By the way, I wouldn't sprinkle it in the cat box, due to the cat-repelling qualities I mentioned above...)

So my cat poops directly outside of the litter box. If I put the oil around the box, will that compel to look for somewhere else in the house to poop?

It has not had that effect on our cat -- and I worried about that, too. He also sometimes poops directly outside the litter box. I sprinkle the oil on the spot where he has pooped after cleanup, it seems to coax him back into the litter box -- or at least, he doesn't poop "on" the spot with the eucalyptus oil, nor does he go elsewhere in the house.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

solon

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #543 on: September 18, 2017, 01:37:45 PM »
I don't know if the community has gone soft, but now it's gone to (cat) crap.

Laura33

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #544 on: September 18, 2017, 01:53:17 PM »
I don't know if the community has gone soft, but now it's gone to (cat) crap.

True. 

Isn't it great that the "let's kvetch about how spendy everyone is getting" thread helped me find a potentially awesome new luxury good that I had never realized I needed before?
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

GuitarStv

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #545 on: September 18, 2017, 03:06:51 PM »
Apparently cat tastes a lot like rabbit.  I'm just sayin' . . . you could solve your kitty litter problem AND save on meat next week.

slappy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #546 on: September 18, 2017, 03:26:01 PM »
Apparently cat tastes a lot like rabbit.  I'm just sayin' . . . you could solve your kitty litter problem AND save on meat next week.

Ha. You sound like my husband.

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #547 on: September 18, 2017, 07:25:40 PM »
However: Eucalyptus oil is freaking fantastic for freshening up a room with a cat box in it. I always have that stuff on hand. I sprinkle a little bit around and it smells clean and amazing.

Eucalyptus oil is also great at removing sticky labels/residue.

dragoncar

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #548 on: September 18, 2017, 11:33:36 PM »
  Any time you extract a chemical from a substance using an industrial process, you have created an artificial product. 


I don't really agree with this.  I'm not saying extracted chemicals are healthier by virtue of their natural occurrence, but there is a difference between naturally occurring chemicals (physically extracted) and a synthetic substance (created through chemistry).

This isn't strictly true. I'm sure some essential oils fall into each category, and a lot of fragrances can be pinpointed to a single or very few molecules. In such a case, there is absolutely no chemical difference between the molecule extracted from its natural source and the same molecule synthesized in a lab. As long as it's purified reasonably well, there's no difference whatsoever.

Milk is a different story because it's a very complicated substance. "Synthesizing" it would mean creating a huge variety of proteins and fats and getting them mixed together in the right ratios. If it's not impossible it's certainly not cost-effective.

Yeah sorry I wasn't saying you can't synthetically reproduce an otherwise naturally occurring substance (intersection on the venn diagram).  I was saying that the sets of chemicals obtained by each process are distinguishable (non-zero set difference).

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #549 on: September 19, 2017, 05:30:17 AM »
I don't know if the community has gone soft, but now it's gone to (cat) crap.

True. 

Isn't it great that the "let's kvetch about how spendy everyone is getting" thread helped me find a potentially awesome new luxury good that I had never realized I needed before?

:)  Sometimes I think there should be a "seen on the forum" section in the anti-mustachian wall of shame and comedy