Author Topic: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?  (Read 143911 times)

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #400 on: August 29, 2017, 02:27:00 PM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work.
I politely call BS. The math DOES work, it just takes a little or (even a lot) longer. The five years won't happen, but FIRE can still be reached eventually. Earn more, spend less, invest the difference is solid advice, no matter what your situation.

The people who have an easy time reaching FIRE are people who have high income and suddenly realize that they spend $3000 a month on Starbucks. That is true. (I love hyperbole.) But lower income people can also FIRE. A lot of lower income people are convinced that there is no possible way to increase their income, but really it's a lot of mental blockage and unwillingness to take risks, because they have learned throughout their lives that the only way to survive is to play it safe, even when that "safety" is really a cage.

My advice with the lower income folks on the forum is to explain what's possible and give them some facepunches, because sometimes people need to get some sense knocked into them. Either they will accept the criticism and make some changes in their lives or they will get huffy and leave. Either way, it's their choice.

rdaneel0

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #401 on: August 29, 2017, 03:17:26 PM »

Someone wrote, "I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work."


I strongly disagree, and I don't think people making $30k or less are typically that delusional. When I started reading MMM I made minimum wage, and I knew immediately that there was no way I'd be able to retire in 5 years. Many of the articles on cutting back (and many forum threads) didn't even apply to me: I already wasn't eating out, I already didn't have a car, I already didn't go on vacations. I was already working 7 days a week and picking up doubles. My problem wasn't keeping up with the joneses, it was buying food without relying on credit cards.

I stayed out of debt by living like a rat, but I tracked nothing and had no plan. Because of MMM I switched jobs, my husband went back to school (community college then state school, graduated with $6k debt which we paid off before interest kicked in), I learned that investing isn't scary, I learned to think about spending differently. I went from feeling depressed about not having what others had to realizing I was kind of a badass! I'm all about stoicism!

Now we're making more money and on track to retire by our early 40s, yeah that's way later than MMM and his lady, but for a couple that started at minimum wage it's pretty fucking awesome.


(sorry for weird formatting, when i tried to do a quote it was all wonky looking)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 03:19:10 PM by rdaneel0 »

Tass

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #402 on: August 29, 2017, 03:44:25 PM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work.
I politely call BS. The math DOES work, it just takes a little or (even a lot) longer. The five years won't happen, but FIRE can still be reached eventually. Earn more, spend less, invest the difference is solid advice, no matter what your situation.

Agreed with Dicey. I make a grad student stipend in an extremely HCOL area. "The math doesn't work" in terms of, no, 80% savings isn't accessible to me - but the attitude is what I'm looking for. The day-to-day tips, the community support, learning to be satisfied with what I can afford, and the confidence that I can hit the ground running when I do start making more than 30K. I'm already learning to metaphorically jog!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 03:47:21 PM by Tass »

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #403 on: August 29, 2017, 06:04:12 PM »

Someone wrote, "I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work."


I strongly disagree, and I don't think people making $30k or less are typically that delusional. When I started reading MMM I made minimum wage, and I knew immediately that there was no way I'd be able to retire in 5 years. Many of the articles on cutting back (and many forum threads) didn't even apply to me: I already wasn't eating out, I already didn't have a car, I already didn't go on vacations. I was already working 7 days a week and picking up doubles. My problem wasn't keeping up with the joneses, it was buying food without relying on credit cards.

I stayed out of debt by living like a rat, but I tracked nothing and had no plan. Because of MMM I switched jobs, my husband went back to school (community college then state school, graduated with $6k debt which we paid off before interest kicked in), I learned that investing isn't scary, I learned to think about spending differently. I went from feeling depressed about not having what others had to realizing I was kind of a badass! I'm all about stoicism!

Now we're making more money and on track to retire by our early 40s, yeah that's way later than MMM and his lady, but for a couple that started at minimum wage it's pretty fucking awesome.


(sorry for weird formatting, when i tried to do a quote it was all wonky looking)

As a fellow former minimum wage worker, I salute you. Well done. I wish MMM had existed earlier in my life because it's made a huge difference for people like us.

CanuckExpat

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #404 on: August 29, 2017, 07:53:41 PM »
Look, there's a not insignificant number of people here who can set a $100 bill on fire every morning when they go to work, and still retire 30 years before normal retirement age. Fair or not, that's the math.

Looking for exculpatory ways to justify bad choices you cannot afford to make is silly.

You are right, too many people probably are still car commuting. I'll go to case studies and tell a few people to go get a bike ;)
Thanks for the reminder!

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #405 on: August 29, 2017, 11:56:21 PM »
There is a choice with the lower earning folks to accept that it will take longer or to investigate higher paying work.

There is a parallel between people who are reluctant to look for higher paying work and people who are reluctant to cut their costs. It isn't the same thing, but some of the reasoning sounds similar.

I'm in awe of the long-haul lower earning people on the board; I learn more from them than someone who cut their lattes down.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #406 on: August 30, 2017, 12:31:40 AM »
The maths does work for lower earners. The savings rate table goes from 0% to 100%. You decide where on the table you are. Our household income is fairly low and I am considering taking a break from work soon. My priorities are saving for emergencies, saving for old age retirement, and downshifting right now. But I have learnt that: I can cut expenses and still live well; I can invest in a non-scary way; it's my choice what I do with my life.

caracarn

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #407 on: August 30, 2017, 08:28:10 AM »
I too salute those starting out and working to find better income streams.  I think it is still a huge step to progress from the consumer focused mentality we are culturally taught to embrace of "I can't wait to make more so I can buy X" to "I don't need or want X and my life is just fine".  It's a lesson I try and succeed or fail at to various degrees imparting into my kids as they are heading out on their own.  Some of them cannot accumulate two pennies to rub together and others can save but still have the consumer itch way to hard. 

calimom

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #408 on: August 30, 2017, 10:21:36 PM »
There is a choice with the lower earning folks to accept that it will take longer or to investigate higher paying work.

There is a parallel between people who are reluctant to look for higher paying work and people who are reluctant to cut their costs. It isn't the same thing, but some of the reasoning sounds similar.

I'm in awe of the long-haul lower earning people on the board; I learn more from them than someone who cut their lattes down.

Absolutely, especially those who are open to change and interested in suggestions to make more income, spend down debt, and learn saving technique. The willfully ignorant are puzzling. The ones with low income, student loans, 'non-negotiable- tithing to a church and a SAHM with an expensive unpaid-for degree who refuses to look at any suggestion for improvement to their situation. Some think that just by signing up here, some magic dust might wear off on them.

rdaneel0

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #409 on: August 30, 2017, 10:54:27 PM »

Someone wrote, "I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work."


I strongly disagree, and I don't think people making $30k or less are typically that delusional. When I started reading MMM I made minimum wage, and I knew immediately that there was no way I'd be able to retire in 5 years. Many of the articles on cutting back (and many forum threads) didn't even apply to me: I already wasn't eating out, I already didn't have a car, I already didn't go on vacations. I was already working 7 days a week and picking up doubles. My problem wasn't keeping up with the joneses, it was buying food without relying on credit cards.

I stayed out of debt by living like a rat, but I tracked nothing and had no plan. Because of MMM I switched jobs, my husband went back to school (community college then state school, graduated with $6k debt which we paid off before interest kicked in), I learned that investing isn't scary, I learned to think about spending differently. I went from feeling depressed about not having what others had to realizing I was kind of a badass! I'm all about stoicism!

Now we're making more money and on track to retire by our early 40s, yeah that's way later than MMM and his lady, but for a couple that started at minimum wage it's pretty fucking awesome.


(sorry for weird formatting, when i tried to do a quote it was all wonky looking)

As a fellow former minimum wage worker, I salute you. Well done. I wish MMM had existed earlier in my life because it's made a huge difference for people like us.


Thanks, agreed. MMM is for everyone! In his blog posts, MMM does show his background a bit, but the general advice here is still applicable to low earners, plus it's a nice place for motivation.

Raenia

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #410 on: August 31, 2017, 06:16:49 AM »
This thread has inspired me to start posting on case studies.  Into the breach!

matchewed

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #411 on: August 31, 2017, 06:42:39 AM »
This thread has inspired me to start posting on case studies.  Into the breach!

caracarn

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #412 on: August 31, 2017, 07:51:48 AM »
This thread has inspired me to start posting on case studies.  Into the breach!
Yes, I've made comments on my first one this week based on the push from this thread as well.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #413 on: August 31, 2017, 08:13:36 AM »
This thread has inspired me to start posting on case studies.  Into the breach!
Yes, I've made comments on my first one this week based on the push from this thread as well.

Yay!!!!



I actually am seriously grateful people are participating more. And honestly, when a case study gets "into the weeds" is often when I learn the most about things I don't know much about (ie, deciding if investments are a good deal, specific tax situations, so on). So honestly- thanks all!

BlueHouse

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #414 on: August 31, 2017, 10:38:59 AM »
Going soft...
Thanks for asking this question, because it's definitely got me thinking a bit more about myself.   I am soft and have been since day one.  My case study helped me identify some things that I didn't know about and make positive changes, but I didn't focus on things that I, myself, had to change.   Lifestyle changes -- those are the hardest, aren't they?  so I've decided to identify some of the things that have always been soft and still are and the changes I'll make for the next month. 

 
1.  Groceries -- need to focus on less waste and better choices.  Grocery store is 2 blocks from my home.  I need to only buy enough produce for one or two days and then buy more. 
2.  Less prepared food purchases.  To attack my dependence on prepared and processed foods, I'm going to ONLY shop in the first two aisles of the supermarket for one month. (produce and meat). 
3.  Transportation -- I've started depending on my car more.  No more local trips in car.  Get the bike muscles going again.
4.  Outsourcing -- was planning to hire someone to plant a few bushes.  I'm putting it on my list to plant the bushes myself.  Also paint and possibly even build a new platform bed by myself. 

That's enough for now.  Groceries are my biggest waste and I really want to fix that! 

Raenia

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #415 on: August 31, 2017, 11:19:05 AM »
Going soft...
Thanks for asking this question, because it's definitely got me thinking a bit more about myself.   I am soft and have been since day one.  My case study helped me identify some things that I didn't know about and make positive changes, but I didn't focus on things that I, myself, had to change.   Lifestyle changes -- those are the hardest, aren't they?  so I've decided to identify some of the things that have always been soft and still are and the changes I'll make for the next month. 

 
1.  Groceries -- need to focus on less waste and better choices.  Grocery store is 2 blocks from my home.  I need to only buy enough produce for one or two days and then buy more. 
2.  Less prepared food purchases.  To attack my dependence on prepared and processed foods, I'm going to ONLY shop in the first two aisles of the supermarket for one month. (produce and meat). 
3.  Transportation -- I've started depending on my car more.  No more local trips in car.  Get the bike muscles going again.
4.  Outsourcing -- was planning to hire someone to plant a few bushes.  I'm putting it on my list to plant the bushes myself.  Also paint and possibly even build a new platform bed by myself. 

That's enough for now.  Groceries are my biggest waste and I really want to fix that!

Don't neglect the spices aisle, that makes a big difference!

BlueHouse

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #416 on: August 31, 2017, 11:53:42 AM »
Going soft...
Thanks for asking this question, because it's definitely got me thinking a bit more about myself.   I am soft and have been since day one.  My case study helped me identify some things that I didn't know about and make positive changes, but I didn't focus on things that I, myself, had to change.   Lifestyle changes -- those are the hardest, aren't they?  so I've decided to identify some of the things that have always been soft and still are and the changes I'll make for the next month. 

 
1.  Groceries -- need to focus on less waste and better choices.  Grocery store is 2 blocks from my home.  I need to only buy enough produce for one or two days and then buy more. 
2.  Less prepared food purchases.  To attack my dependence on prepared and processed foods, I'm going to ONLY shop in the first two aisles of the supermarket for one month. (produce and meat). 
3.  Transportation -- I've started depending on my car more.  No more local trips in car.  Get the bike muscles going again.
4.  Outsourcing -- was planning to hire someone to plant a few bushes.  I'm putting it on my list to plant the bushes myself.  Also paint and possibly even build a new platform bed by myself. 

That's enough for now.  Groceries are my biggest waste and I really want to fix that!

Don't neglect the spices aisle, that makes a big difference!

No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging. 

Uturn

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #417 on: August 31, 2017, 12:24:26 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

I also pick up something in the produce section that I don't know how to cook, then go home and jump on Google.  Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it right.  In the last 3 years I have discovered that I really like Brussels sprouts, kale, parsnips, and butternut squash.  None of those were ever in my diet before.  I have found various ways to make each and have enjoyed the process.

Cali Nonya

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #418 on: August 31, 2017, 12:39:49 PM »
P2F
(but not wanting to really get into the fray on this one)

caracarn

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #419 on: August 31, 2017, 12:41:57 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.
I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one. 

Instant Pot.  Put in what you want.  Go enjoy yourself for a while.  Eat it up 20 minutes later. 

Goldielocks

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #420 on: August 31, 2017, 12:49:54 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

Yogurt -- yogurt is a meal for one....   (?!)

Raenia

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #421 on: August 31, 2017, 01:15:29 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

Yogurt -- yogurt is a meal for one....   (?!)

Have you ever tried to cook a single serving of yogurt?  Totally not worth the effort - I make at least a half gallon at a time ;)

boarder42

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #422 on: August 31, 2017, 01:19:05 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

Yogurt -- yogurt is a meal for one....   (?!)

Have you ever tried to cook a single serving of yogurt?  Totally not worth the effort - I make at least a half gallon at a time ;)

i do it by the gallon and get about a quart of greek yogurt per time maybe a little bit more.

lentil

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #423 on: August 31, 2017, 01:22:16 PM »
Quote
I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I'm cooking for 2, so YMMV, but some things that help us:

-- Cook just a few large meals each week (I do use an Instant Pot!). Freeze leftovers into individual portions - I use lidded glass bowls. It was a lot of work the first few times, and got easier as I streamlined my "batch" meals...like I'll sort some ingredients ahead of time, and other corner-cutting.

-- Most produce can be frozen and used later. If I buy spinach, for instance, and don't eat it in the first few days, I freeze the rest. Next time I make a stew/soup/curry/chili, the frozen spinach goes in. Same with a lot of veggies. Or I just chop & freeze them as soon as I get home, when I find an especially good deal on one of our staples.

-- some veggies can just be bought frozen. Uturn mentions Brussels sprouts; where I live, they're cheaper frozen than fresh. So I have a bag in the freezer, and can take out as much as I need at any point, rather than worrying about wasting fresh produce.

-- try to eat the food we have before buying more (this is an ongoing challenge for me!).

I'm working on trimming groceries (better meal planning seems to be the skill I need to exercise most), eating out less, riding my bike more, and building some necessary household improvements too! Seems like there is always something to work on. Maybe we need a September food costs challenge, get us back on track after a lazy summer ;-)

Raenia

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #424 on: August 31, 2017, 01:27:23 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

Yogurt -- yogurt is a meal for one....   (?!)

Have you ever tried to cook a single serving of yogurt?  Totally not worth the effort - I make at least a half gallon at a time ;)

i do it by the gallon and get about a quart of greek yogurt per time maybe a little bit more.

I'm not making greek yogurt, but for a gallon of milk I get 3 quarts of yogurt and almost 2 quarts of whey.  Since greek is thicker, makes sense it would produce less, though I'm surprised it's that big a difference - maybe I'll have to try it out :)

NeonPegasus

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #425 on: August 31, 2017, 06:46:52 PM »
i do it by the gallon and get about a quart of greek yogurt per time maybe a little bit more.

LOL. You make greek yogurt the way I do - keep straining, keep straining, keep straining - until it's nearly cheese.

You must be using non-fat milk. I can't strain nearly as much whey out when I'm making greek yogurt from whole milk as when I make it for me from skim milk.

Every so often, I buy a quart of yogurt for fresh starter and am reminded what the actual consistency is supposed to be.

Goldielocks

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #426 on: August 31, 2017, 11:00:30 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

Yogurt -- yogurt is a meal for one....   (?!)

Have you ever tried to cook a single serving of yogurt?  Totally not worth the effort - I make at least a half gallon at a time ;)

Haha..   I make about a half gallon  to a gallon at a time, and add homemade jam and finish it off over several servings...  So with the homemade jam it likely takes longer in total....

dragoncar

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #427 on: September 01, 2017, 01:24:30 AM »
Some of us have definitely gotten softer as a result of moving up the food chain in terms of wealth/income.

I just spent $100 on cheese and I'm not even sorry.

I've definitely loosened the purse strings a bit.  Never claimed to be one of those "I'd spend the same amount even if I had a billion dollars" people. 

4alpacas

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #428 on: September 01, 2017, 02:15:28 PM »
Some of us have definitely gotten softer as a result of moving up the food chain in terms of wealth/income.

I just spent $100 on cheese and I'm not even sorry.

I've definitely loosened the purse strings a bit.  Never claimed to be one of those "I'd spend the same amount even if I had a billion dollars" people.
If I had a billion dollars, I definitely donate more money to charity.  However, I can't think of anything that I want and didn't buy because of money reasons. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #429 on: September 01, 2017, 02:20:33 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle

wenchsenior

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #430 on: September 01, 2017, 03:55:22 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle

I totally would do this also, except with a chunk of land just outside a medium sized city.  Oh, and if it were available, I'd add an invisible barrier that prevents humans and all  of their human-caused noise from entering without permission, but allows natural noise and all non human living creatures to pass (with the exception of dogs, which bark...they are only allowed in with permission also).  Except apparently this hasn't been invented yet, DAMMIT.

GuitarStv

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #431 on: September 01, 2017, 05:20:45 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle

I totally would do this also, except with a chunk of land just outside a medium sized city.  Oh, and if it were available, I'd add an invisible barrier that prevents humans and all  of their human-caused noise from entering without permission, but allows natural noise and all non human living creatures to pass (with the exception of dogs, which bark...they are only allowed in with permission also).  Except apparently this hasn't been invented yet, DAMMIT.

I call them earplugs.  :P

GuitarStv

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #432 on: September 01, 2017, 05:22:42 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle
Good news!  You can afford to do that in Detroit for about $20k!

Busy urban area != deserted post apocalyptic hell hole.

Kriegsspiel

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #433 on: September 01, 2017, 05:41:14 PM »
The city would probably be delighted to sell you a park in one of the inhabited zones. You wouldn't even need to bulldoze buildings! Although I guess you could do that in any city, if money weren't an obstacle... Detroit even fails in imagination-land.

plainjane

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #434 on: September 01, 2017, 07:47:27 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle
Good news!  You can afford to do that in Detroit for about $20k!
Busy urban area != deserted post apocalyptic hell hole.

More importantly, if you put a big walled area in a busy urban city, you actually reduce the busy urbanness of it because there are few reasons for anyone to walk by. You end up contributing to a blight.

Goldielocks

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #435 on: September 03, 2017, 08:32:21 PM »
On MMM today:

I just saw a post to OP asking where to buy essential oils (for less).
One poster suggested buying them while on vacation in Bali because they are so cheap there.  !!!
---------------------
Another OP looking for cooking and meal planing tips as they don't really cook much now and want to get rid of $20k in cc debt...   
Posters suggesting all sorts of good ideas, but most involving a need to first purchase an instaPot, crockpots, special to go mugs with lids, etc... 

I don't think the way to save $300 off your food bill because you used to have a spending problem is to first buy an InstaPot $100+.

GenXbiker

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #436 on: September 03, 2017, 10:37:29 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle

I totally would do this also, except with a chunk of land just outside a medium sized city.  Oh, and if it were available, I'd add an invisible barrier that prevents humans and all  of their human-caused noise from entering without permission, but allows natural noise and all non human living creatures to pass (with the exception of dogs, which bark...they are only allowed in with permission also).  Except apparently this hasn't been invented yet, DAMMIT.

I call them earplugs.  :P

I wish.  I try to use earplugs from time to time, but I get even more annoyed with them than I do by unwelcome noise.  The best ones are still poor at blocking low frequency noises.  At least, it's not too bad where I live now - a lawnmower from time to time is about as bad as it gets.

marty998

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #437 on: September 04, 2017, 03:44:07 AM »
On MMM today:

I just saw a post to OP asking where to buy essential oils (for less).
One poster suggested buying them while on vacation in Bali because they are so cheap there.  !!!
---------------------
Another OP looking for cooking and meal planing tips as they don't really cook much now and want to get rid of $20k in cc debt...   
Posters suggesting all sorts of good ideas, but most involving a need to first purchase an instaPot, crockpots, special to go mugs with lids, etc... 

I don't think the way to save $300 off your food bill because you used to have a spending problem is to first buy an InstaPot $100+.

Especially when it is being bought using credit card funds at high interest rates.

$5 saucepan from target and a stove top. There. Sorted.

deborah

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #438 on: September 04, 2017, 04:01:55 AM »
Why pay even $5? When I visited Canada, I got an RV relocation very cheaply, but it didn't include bedding or kitchen stuff (they would have been $160 extra). I went to the local thrift, and got everything I needed (cutlery, plates, knife, wooden spoon, saucepan, fryingpan, microwave big bowl, cutting board, towels, sheets, eiderdown... ) for less than $10. I have gone camping before and bought similar stuff at a local thrift - they all have quite a variety. Of course, if you want a matching set, you need to go elsewhere.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #439 on: September 04, 2017, 05:39:05 AM »
Why pay even $5? When I visited Canada, I got an RV relocation very cheaply, but it didn't include bedding or kitchen stuff (they would have been $160 extra). I went to the local thrift, and got everything I needed (cutlery, plates, knife, wooden spoon, saucepan, fryingpan, microwave big bowl, cutting board, towels, sheets, eiderdown... ) for less than $10. I have gone camping before and bought similar stuff at a local thrift - they all have quite a variety. Of course, if you want a matching set, you need to go elsewhere. pay down your sodding debt and then think about such wildly indulgent fanciness.

FTFY ;-)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #440 on: September 04, 2017, 06:09:18 AM »
Why pay even $5? When I visited Canada, I got an RV relocation very cheaply, but it didn't include bedding or kitchen stuff (they would have been $160 extra). I went to the local thrift, and got everything I needed (cutlery, plates, knife, wooden spoon, saucepan, frying pan, microwave big bowl, cutting board, towels, sheets, eiderdown... ) for less than $10. I have gone camping before and bought similar stuff at a local thrift - they all have quite a variety. Of course, if you want a matching set, you need to go elsewhere.

Depends on the thrift store, depends on the day - I have had amazing luck, and also walked out empty-handed.  I think I paid $5 for my crock-pot, but that took more than one visit.  $3 for my Melitta carafe and cone filter holder.  $10 for a super stock pot (originally from Ikea, $40).  These were Montreal and Ottawa, where were you shopping?  But yes, no need to buy new and fancy.

slappy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #441 on: September 04, 2017, 06:19:55 AM »
On MMM today:

I just saw a post to OP asking where to buy essential oils (for less).
One poster suggested buying them while on vacation in Bali because they are so cheap there.  !!!
---------------------
Another OP looking for cooking and meal planing tips as they don't really cook much now and want to get rid of $20k in cc debt...   
Posters suggesting all sorts of good ideas, but most involving a need to first purchase an instaPot, crockpots, special to go mugs with lids, etc... 

I don't think the way to save $300 off your food bill because you used to have a spending problem is to first buy an InstaPot $100+.

Especially when it is being bought using credit card funds at high interest rates.

$5 saucepan from target and a stove top. There. Sorted.

To be fair, one person did call them out on not be able to "buy their way out of debt". 

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #442 on: September 04, 2017, 08:56:12 AM »
Why pay even $5? When I visited Canada, I got an RV relocation very cheaply, but it didn't include bedding or kitchen stuff (they would have been $160 extra). I went to the local thrift, and got everything I needed (cutlery, plates, knife, wooden spoon, saucepan, fryingpan, microwave big bowl, cutting board, towels, sheets, eiderdown... ) for less than $10. I have gone camping before and bought similar stuff at a local thrift - they all have quite a variety. Of course, if you want a matching set, you need to go elsewhere.

When I moved to the Flatlands, I had two ceramic plates, two sets of cheap eating utensils, one mug, two ceramic bowls, and two wooden bowls. I purposefully rented a room from Craigslist that came with a shared kitchen with pots and pans included (and a microwave) and when I moved in, I scrubbed and sanitized every pot and pan and surface in the entire kitchen and I was easily able to prepare all my meals for cheap. All for only $525/month. The sharing economy is wonderful. I saved so much money.

It's helpful to have things like crockpots, bread machines, deep fryers, etc., but they aren't really necessary. Those are really for when you own your own house with a kitchen and you want to reduce meal prep time so you can work a side hustle (which is what I do). I never understand the people who say to buy expensive kitchen appliances at retail, because there is absolutely no need for it. This is why Craigslist, eBay, Amazon, yard sales, etc. exist. So you can get super-cheap stuff for far below retail price (and often tax-free if your state doesn't have a use tax.) I got a bread machine for $30 when it retailed for $120 brand new and a deep fryer for $17 when it retailed for $25 brand new.

FINate

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #443 on: September 04, 2017, 09:21:47 AM »
It's helpful to have things like crockpots, bread machines, deep fryers, etc., but they aren't really necessary. Those are really for when you own your own house with a kitchen and you want to reduce meal prep time so you can work a side hustle (which is what I do). I never understand the people who say to buy expensive kitchen appliances at retail, because there is absolutely no need for it. This is why Craigslist, eBay, Amazon, yard sales, etc. exist. So you can get super-cheap stuff for far below retail price (and often tax-free if your state doesn't have a use tax.) I got a bread machine for $30 when it retailed for $120 brand new and a deep fryer for $17 when it retailed for $25 brand new.

Agree, not necessary. Crockpots are nice for starting a meal before work that's ready on return. But these days I prefer to braise and stew using a dutch oven, which means I can brown proteins and build up a really nice flavor on the stovetop and finish in the oven for 3-4 hours. IMO the flavor is way better than the crockpot meals. Also use the dutch oven for baking sourdough loaves, made by hand and way more delicious than any machine produces. Admittedly this only works for us because we are FIRE and have the time/flexibility to start and/or attend to dishes in the middle of the day when most people are at work.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #444 on: September 04, 2017, 09:28:49 AM »
Ah, yard sales - when I left Ex I was basically starting my kitchen from nothing.  I have 4 Henckel steak knives, $5 at a yard sale.  Auctions/estate sales are good too, since it is a whole household being sold.

elaine amj

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #445 on: September 04, 2017, 09:59:51 AM »
Yard sales are the best! Dangerous for me though as I am a bit of a shopaholic/pack rat and have a hard time resisting a killer deal. So I limit the number of yard sales I go to :) Still, hitting up yard sales and thrift stores are amongst our favourite date activities!


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RetiredAt63

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #446 on: September 04, 2017, 10:46:44 AM »
Right now yard sales/thrift stores are off limits.  I am trying to cut down on stuff,not accumulate more. But when you need them they are great (think Tony the Tiger GRREEAAATTTT!)

dragoncar

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #447 on: September 04, 2017, 06:35:26 PM »
On MMM today:

I just saw a post to OP asking where to buy essential oils (for less).
One poster suggested buying them while on vacation in Bali because they are so cheap there.  !!!
---------------------
Another OP looking for cooking and meal planing tips as they don't really cook much now and want to get rid of $20k in cc debt...   
Posters suggesting all sorts of good ideas, but most involving a need to first purchase an instaPot, crockpots, special to go mugs with lids, etc... 

I don't think the way to save $300 off your food bill because you used to have a spending problem is to first buy an InstaPot $100+.

Especially when it is being bought using credit card funds at high interest rates.

$5 saucepan from target and a stove top. There. Sorted.

To be fair, one person did call them out on not be able to "buy their way out of debt".

There was a time when I read literally every post on this message board.  That was years ago. Now I can barely keep up with my "unreadreplies" threads.  I guess I'm really missing out on new ways to buy essential oils

Goldielocks

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #448 on: September 04, 2017, 07:05:36 PM »
On MMM today:

I just saw a post to OP asking where to buy essential oils (for less).
One poster suggested buying them while on vacation in Bali because they are so cheap there.  !!!
---------------------

To be fair that post was from super frugal Jo-Jo and she didn't say you should go to Bali to get oils but that you should look for them if you are on vacation somewhere as they might be much cheaper. She merely mentioned that she happened to pick some up cheap in Bali while travelling (which she does frugally).

I know, but without the backstory, the post could have been read by the general guest as an endorsement for Bali travel, too, as a way to save money...  espeicially as the OP was simply looking for an answer like "here is a link to make your own"... "go to walmart"... etc.

calimom

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #449 on: September 04, 2017, 10:04:12 PM »
On MMM today:

I just saw a post to OP asking where to buy essential oils (for less).
One poster suggested buying them while on vacation in Bali because they are so cheap there.  !!!
---------------------

To be fair that post was from super frugal Jo-Jo and she didn't say you should go to Bali to get oils but that you should look for them if you are on vacation somewhere as they might be much cheaper. She merely mentioned that she happened to pick some up cheap in Bali while travelling (which she does frugally).

I know, but without the backstory, the post could have been read by the general guest as an endorsement for Bali travel, too, as a way to save money...  espeicially as the OP was simply looking for an answer like "here is a link to make your own"... "go to walmart"... etc.
That's true. Lots of new members here that could take her Bali post wrong. Personally I think she should have paid $12k to get her private pilots license, then $100k to buy a small plane, then a few thousand for fuel to fly herself to Bali to but discounted oils. DIY MMM style! Or maybe hit a local Head shop (do they still have those) and but some Patchouli oil cheap ;-).

LOL! Now that's the way to optimize that $12K pilot's license expense! Fly to Bali for some essential oils! (they were thinking of going there anyhow)

Certainly better than the poster who thought a $15K Disney vacation for the family was "a pretty good deal". There are no words.