Author Topic: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?  (Read 31134 times)

Dicey

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5792
  • Age: 59
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #400 on: August 29, 2017, 10:23:20 AM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work.
I politely call BS. The math DOES work, it just takes a little or (even a lot) longer. The five years won't happen, but FIRE can still be reached eventually. Earn more, spend less, invest the difference is solid advice, no matter what your situation.
I did it! I have a journal!
A Lot Like This
And hell yes, I am still moving confidently in the direction of my dreams...

dycker1978

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 699
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #401 on: August 29, 2017, 10:26:13 AM »
WOW, I was just reading a new thread.  Someone is looking for an alternative to having a TV in their living room for when guests come over, for entertainment.  Some one says "the frame by Samsung" which is a fancy pant TV designed to look like a picture frame, starting at 2000...

What has this forum come to?

Goldielocks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
  • Location: BC
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #402 on: August 29, 2017, 10:31:31 AM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

With the infrequent blog posts and increasing media coverage, it seems like there are more people who wander in and don't realise that spending less and saving more are key tenets to what we do here. It would be good if we could direct people to a sticky to see if they are lost. Like if you checked into a budget motel and started asking where is the pool and what time is turndown; you'd want to be gently redirected someplace else.

I'm thinking particularly of I Want My Lifestyle Inflation, there are others. I'm not sure that there have been many people that start off with "tell me the magic secret so that I can buy more stuff" and then stick around long term, so it wouldn't be a massive loss to the community. Unless Beatles has a new handle, they kinda gathered up the guidance and then used it as a springboard to their blog; it didn't make me feel good for all the people here who put time into helping Beatles out.

Oh, the Beatles thread was outrageously fun, in retrospect.  I did try, too....

The stickies is a neat idea... but we all fall into the trap of wanting stuff, from time to time, and most of us belong here, so I would not be too harsh about it...

Goldielocks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
  • Location: BC
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #403 on: August 29, 2017, 10:37:31 AM »
Guys, I've definitely already noticed an uptick in people replying to case studies. THANK YOU =) The message from many voices with carry way more weight! Consider it a weird digital version of community service. That mindset always helps me reply to the "meh" ones, that haven't gotten any answers after a day or more!

B_J

Truthfully,   sometimes there are just so many numbers in the case studies.   I used to love doing all the analysis, but then got tired of so many case studies and the numbers, it makes my head swim to do more than one if I focus on the numbers, and then the questions start about backdoor Roths (and I am not american so never bothered to review that concept in detail).   

I don't mind posting general feedback comments on line items that seem to be out of whack, though, or entirely missing budget line items...  will do more....

PoutineLover

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #404 on: August 29, 2017, 10:44:26 AM »
Wait, do we think we should give up on helping people with case studies just because they are still at the beginning of their journey or don't have the same circumstances to contend with? All of us had to unlearn bad habits at some point, and this forum shouldn't be limited to people who already know everything. I'm on a middle of the road path to FIRE (not extreme frugality, but also very conscious of my spending) and there's a lot I can learn here. I did a case study a while back and found it pretty helpful actually, so thanks if you responded there.
Everyone has a different number, timeline and circumstances to deal with, and I don't think this forum should be a cult of WWMMMD. He had the high income, early savings, paid off house, DIY skills, no disability path to FIRE. I have the average income, early savings, renting, limited DIY, no disability path. These will look different. There are other variables. We should be using our skills to help those who ask for it, facepunch them when needed, but with actual options not just "thats stupid why would you ever do that". My personal goal is to live a life centered around my values, with minimum environmental impact, and reach financial independence so I can choose how to spend my time and money. Let's not become the ERpolice around here, even MMM doesn't like them.

Bracken_Joy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6879
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #405 on: August 29, 2017, 10:46:58 AM »
Guys, I've definitely already noticed an uptick in people replying to case studies. THANK YOU =) The message from many voices with carry way more weight! Consider it a weird digital version of community service. That mindset always helps me reply to the "meh" ones, that haven't gotten any answers after a day or more!

B_J

Truthfully,   sometimes there are just so many numbers in the case studies.   I used to love doing all the analysis, but then got tired of so many case studies and the numbers, it makes my head swim to do more than one if I focus on the numbers, and then the questions start about backdoor Roths (and I am not american so never bothered to review that concept in detail).   

I don't mind posting general feedback comments on line items that seem to be out of whack, though, or entirely missing budget line items...  will do more....

Honestly, stuff like "wait, where is your fuel and electric?" helps a TON. 75% of the time I miss that that stuff is missing, haha. So when someone mentions it I'm like "OH!" And that's why having more people in helps.

But yes, the wash of numbers and tax code can get tedious. That's why a lot of times I just offer links on that stuff, rather than addressing it directly. I am DEFINITELY not the ideal person to be replying to case studies. But if the alternative is no one? Well, then I guess me, my links, and my inattentiveness will have to do ;) haha.
My journal: Hiding in the Ferns
Like babies? Have kids? Want to chat about Babies and Pregnancy/Infertility? Group Journal Here.

shelivesthedream

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
  • Location: UK
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #406 on: August 29, 2017, 11:49:57 AM »
I also hereby pledge to put at least a token amount of effort into finding and responding to the UK case studies if I would like to continue complaining about how it's not like it was in my day.

Dicey

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5792
  • Age: 59
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #407 on: August 29, 2017, 02:02:21 PM »
True confession time: I never crunch the numbers in the Case Studies. I look at where the money is going, read the words, listen for tone, and then decide to engage, if I spot anything that might be useful, or move along. There are people to whom I know I've been able to provide helpful insight and advice, and then there are cases like the "beatles". Sigh, such a fucking train wreck. Happily it seems there's been some progress on that front, but the update was posted by the OP's wife, so who really knows? Still hate to see "beatles" instead of "Beatles", but that's the least of that story. There's another guy who had a rocky start, but hung in there and eventually started to turn his ship around. He changed his user name, but he's still here. It tickles me every time I see his user name initials pop up. He's getting there, with everyone's help.

I did it! I have a journal!
A Lot Like This
And hell yes, I am still moving confidently in the direction of my dreams...

Playing with Fire UK

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1726
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #408 on: August 29, 2017, 02:15:31 PM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

With the infrequent blog posts and increasing media coverage, it seems like there are more people who wander in and don't realise that spending less and saving more are key tenets to what we do here. It would be good if we could direct people to a sticky to see if they are lost. Like if you checked into a budget motel and started asking where is the pool and what time is turndown; you'd want to be gently redirected someplace else.

I'm thinking particularly of I Want My Lifestyle Inflation, there are others. I'm not sure that there have been many people that start off with "tell me the magic secret so that I can buy more stuff" and then stick around long term, so it wouldn't be a massive loss to the community. Unless Beatles has a new handle, they kinda gathered up the guidance and then used it as a springboard to their blog; it didn't make me feel good for all the people here who put time into helping Beatles out.

Oh, the Beatles thread was outrageously fun, in retrospect.  I did try, too....

The stickies is a neat idea... but we all fall into the trap of wanting stuff, from time to time, and most of us belong here, so I would not be too harsh about it...

Oh sure, I'm not trying to be mean to people who are looking to end up in an MMM-place, no matter how long it takes to turn the ship around. Just some ships are pointed in the opposite direction and calling for more steam.

We all want stuff now and then, some of us want lots of stuff all the time, but if someone plans to buy ALL the stuff ALL the time, maybe this forum isn't their place (yet?).

Playing with Fire UK

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1726
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #409 on: August 29, 2017, 02:18:46 PM »
I also hereby pledge to put at least a token amount of effort into finding and responding to the UK case studies if I would like to continue complaining about how it's not like it was in my day.

Please encourage them to add a [UK] tag to it, so that we can reduce the hunting time.

WhiteTrashCash

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 647
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #410 on: August 29, 2017, 02:27:00 PM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work.
I politely call BS. The math DOES work, it just takes a little or (even a lot) longer. The five years won't happen, but FIRE can still be reached eventually. Earn more, spend less, invest the difference is solid advice, no matter what your situation.

The people who have an easy time reaching FIRE are people who have high income and suddenly realize that they spend $3000 a month on Starbucks. That is true. (I love hyperbole.) But lower income people can also FIRE. A lot of lower income people are convinced that there is no possible way to increase their income, but really it's a lot of mental blockage and unwillingness to take risks, because they have learned throughout their lives that the only way to survive is to play it safe, even when that "safety" is really a cage.

My advice with the lower income folks on the forum is to explain what's possible and give them some facepunches, because sometimes people need to get some sense knocked into them. Either they will accept the criticism and make some changes in their lives or they will get huffy and leave. Either way, it's their choice.

rdaneel0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 128
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #411 on: August 29, 2017, 03:17:26 PM »

Someone wrote, "I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work."


I strongly disagree, and I don't think people making $30k or less are typically that delusional. When I started reading MMM I made minimum wage, and I knew immediately that there was no way I'd be able to retire in 5 years. Many of the articles on cutting back (and many forum threads) didn't even apply to me: I already wasn't eating out, I already didn't have a car, I already didn't go on vacations. I was already working 7 days a week and picking up doubles. My problem wasn't keeping up with the joneses, it was buying food without relying on credit cards.

I stayed out of debt by living like a rat, but I tracked nothing and had no plan. Because of MMM I switched jobs, my husband went back to school (community college then state school, graduated with $6k debt which we paid off before interest kicked in), I learned that investing isn't scary, I learned to think about spending differently. I went from feeling depressed about not having what others had to realizing I was kind of a badass! I'm all about stoicism!

Now we're making more money and on track to retire by our early 40s, yeah that's way later than MMM and his lady, but for a couple that started at minimum wage it's pretty fucking awesome.


(sorry for weird formatting, when i tried to do a quote it was all wonky looking)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 03:19:10 PM by rdaneel0 »

Tass

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 89
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Southern California
  • Working on a PhD and saving what I can!
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #412 on: August 29, 2017, 03:44:25 PM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work.
I politely call BS. The math DOES work, it just takes a little or (even a lot) longer. The five years won't happen, but FIRE can still be reached eventually. Earn more, spend less, invest the difference is solid advice, no matter what your situation.

Agreed with Dicey. I make a grad student stipend in an extremely HCOL area. "The math doesn't work" in terms of, no, 80% savings isn't accessible to me - but the attitude is what I'm looking for. The day-to-day tips, the community support, learning to be satisfied with what I can afford, and the confidence that I can hit the ground running when I do start making more than 30K. I'm already learning to metaphorically jog!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 03:47:21 PM by Tass »

WhiteTrashCash

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 647
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #413 on: August 29, 2017, 06:04:12 PM »

Someone wrote, "I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work."


I strongly disagree, and I don't think people making $30k or less are typically that delusional. When I started reading MMM I made minimum wage, and I knew immediately that there was no way I'd be able to retire in 5 years. Many of the articles on cutting back (and many forum threads) didn't even apply to me: I already wasn't eating out, I already didn't have a car, I already didn't go on vacations. I was already working 7 days a week and picking up doubles. My problem wasn't keeping up with the joneses, it was buying food without relying on credit cards.

I stayed out of debt by living like a rat, but I tracked nothing and had no plan. Because of MMM I switched jobs, my husband went back to school (community college then state school, graduated with $6k debt which we paid off before interest kicked in), I learned that investing isn't scary, I learned to think about spending differently. I went from feeling depressed about not having what others had to realizing I was kind of a badass! I'm all about stoicism!

Now we're making more money and on track to retire by our early 40s, yeah that's way later than MMM and his lady, but for a couple that started at minimum wage it's pretty fucking awesome.


(sorry for weird formatting, when i tried to do a quote it was all wonky looking)

As a fellow former minimum wage worker, I salute you. Well done. I wish MMM had existed earlier in my life because it's made a huge difference for people like us.

CanuckExpat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2319
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Buffalo for the Summer
    • Freedom35
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #414 on: August 29, 2017, 07:53:41 PM »
Look, there's a not insignificant number of people here who can set a $100 bill on fire every morning when they go to work, and still retire 30 years before normal retirement age. Fair or not, that's the math.

Looking for exculpatory ways to justify bad choices you cannot afford to make is silly.

You are right, too many people probably are still car commuting. I'll go to case studies and tell a few people to go get a bike ;)
Thanks for the reminder!
Was targetting Freedom35 but ended up retiring a couple years early. Currently Based in Buffalo for the summer.

Playing with Fire UK

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1726
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #415 on: August 29, 2017, 11:56:21 PM »
There is a choice with the lower earning folks to accept that it will take longer or to investigate higher paying work.

There is a parallel between people who are reluctant to look for higher paying work and people who are reluctant to cut their costs. It isn't the same thing, but some of the reasoning sounds similar.

I'm in awe of the long-haul lower earning people on the board; I learn more from them than someone who cut their lattes down.

shelivesthedream

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
  • Location: UK
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #416 on: August 30, 2017, 12:31:40 AM »
The maths does work for lower earners. The savings rate table goes from 0% to 100%. You decide where on the table you are. Our household income is fairly low and I am considering taking a break from work soon. My priorities are saving for emergencies, saving for old age retirement, and downshifting right now. But I have learnt that: I can cut expenses and still live well; I can invest in a non-scary way; it's my choice what I do with my life.

caracarn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 744
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Ohio
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #417 on: August 30, 2017, 08:28:10 AM »
I too salute those starting out and working to find better income streams.  I think it is still a huge step to progress from the consumer focused mentality we are culturally taught to embrace of "I can't wait to make more so I can buy X" to "I don't need or want X and my life is just fine".  It's a lesson I try and succeed or fail at to various degrees imparting into my kids as they are heading out on their own.  Some of them cannot accumulate two pennies to rub together and others can save but still have the consumer itch way to hard. 

calimom

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #418 on: August 30, 2017, 10:21:36 PM »
There is a choice with the lower earning folks to accept that it will take longer or to investigate higher paying work.

There is a parallel between people who are reluctant to look for higher paying work and people who are reluctant to cut their costs. It isn't the same thing, but some of the reasoning sounds similar.

I'm in awe of the long-haul lower earning people on the board; I learn more from them than someone who cut their lattes down.

Absolutely, especially those who are open to change and interested in suggestions to make more income, spend down debt, and learn saving technique. The willfully ignorant are puzzling. The ones with low income, student loans, 'non-negotiable- tithing to a church and a SAHM with an expensive unpaid-for degree who refuses to look at any suggestion for improvement to their situation. Some think that just by signing up here, some magic dust might wear off on them.

rdaneel0

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 128
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #419 on: August 30, 2017, 10:54:27 PM »

Someone wrote, "I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work."


I strongly disagree, and I don't think people making $30k or less are typically that delusional. When I started reading MMM I made minimum wage, and I knew immediately that there was no way I'd be able to retire in 5 years. Many of the articles on cutting back (and many forum threads) didn't even apply to me: I already wasn't eating out, I already didn't have a car, I already didn't go on vacations. I was already working 7 days a week and picking up doubles. My problem wasn't keeping up with the joneses, it was buying food without relying on credit cards.

I stayed out of debt by living like a rat, but I tracked nothing and had no plan. Because of MMM I switched jobs, my husband went back to school (community college then state school, graduated with $6k debt which we paid off before interest kicked in), I learned that investing isn't scary, I learned to think about spending differently. I went from feeling depressed about not having what others had to realizing I was kind of a badass! I'm all about stoicism!

Now we're making more money and on track to retire by our early 40s, yeah that's way later than MMM and his lady, but for a couple that started at minimum wage it's pretty fucking awesome.


(sorry for weird formatting, when i tried to do a quote it was all wonky looking)

As a fellow former minimum wage worker, I salute you. Well done. I wish MMM had existed earlier in my life because it's made a huge difference for people like us.


Thanks, agreed. MMM is for everyone! In his blog posts, MMM does show his background a bit, but the general advice here is still applicable to low earners, plus it's a nice place for motivation.

Raenia

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #420 on: August 31, 2017, 06:16:49 AM »
This thread has inspired me to start posting on case studies.  Into the breach!

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4060
  • Location: CT
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #421 on: August 31, 2017, 06:42:39 AM »
This thread has inspired me to start posting on case studies.  Into the breach!

caracarn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 744
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Ohio
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #422 on: August 31, 2017, 07:51:48 AM »
This thread has inspired me to start posting on case studies.  Into the breach!
Yes, I've made comments on my first one this week based on the push from this thread as well.

Bracken_Joy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6879
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #423 on: August 31, 2017, 08:13:36 AM »
This thread has inspired me to start posting on case studies.  Into the breach!
Yes, I've made comments on my first one this week based on the push from this thread as well.

Yay!!!!



I actually am seriously grateful people are participating more. And honestly, when a case study gets "into the weeds" is often when I learn the most about things I don't know much about (ie, deciding if investments are a good deal, specific tax situations, so on). So honestly- thanks all!
My journal: Hiding in the Ferns
Like babies? Have kids? Want to chat about Babies and Pregnancy/Infertility? Group Journal Here.

BlueHouse

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2493
  • Location: WDC
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #424 on: August 31, 2017, 10:38:59 AM »
Going soft...
Thanks for asking this question, because it's definitely got me thinking a bit more about myself.   I am soft and have been since day one.  My case study helped me identify some things that I didn't know about and make positive changes, but I didn't focus on things that I, myself, had to change.   Lifestyle changes -- those are the hardest, aren't they?  so I've decided to identify some of the things that have always been soft and still are and the changes I'll make for the next month. 

 
1.  Groceries -- need to focus on less waste and better choices.  Grocery store is 2 blocks from my home.  I need to only buy enough produce for one or two days and then buy more. 
2.  Less prepared food purchases.  To attack my dependence on prepared and processed foods, I'm going to ONLY shop in the first two aisles of the supermarket for one month. (produce and meat). 
3.  Transportation -- I've started depending on my car more.  No more local trips in car.  Get the bike muscles going again.
4.  Outsourcing -- was planning to hire someone to plant a few bushes.  I'm putting it on my list to plant the bushes myself.  Also paint and possibly even build a new platform bed by myself. 

That's enough for now.  Groceries are my biggest waste and I really want to fix that! 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

Raenia

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #425 on: August 31, 2017, 11:19:05 AM »
Going soft...
Thanks for asking this question, because it's definitely got me thinking a bit more about myself.   I am soft and have been since day one.  My case study helped me identify some things that I didn't know about and make positive changes, but I didn't focus on things that I, myself, had to change.   Lifestyle changes -- those are the hardest, aren't they?  so I've decided to identify some of the things that have always been soft and still are and the changes I'll make for the next month. 

 
1.  Groceries -- need to focus on less waste and better choices.  Grocery store is 2 blocks from my home.  I need to only buy enough produce for one or two days and then buy more. 
2.  Less prepared food purchases.  To attack my dependence on prepared and processed foods, I'm going to ONLY shop in the first two aisles of the supermarket for one month. (produce and meat). 
3.  Transportation -- I've started depending on my car more.  No more local trips in car.  Get the bike muscles going again.
4.  Outsourcing -- was planning to hire someone to plant a few bushes.  I'm putting it on my list to plant the bushes myself.  Also paint and possibly even build a new platform bed by myself. 

That's enough for now.  Groceries are my biggest waste and I really want to fix that!

Don't neglect the spices aisle, that makes a big difference!

BlueHouse

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2493
  • Location: WDC
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #426 on: August 31, 2017, 11:53:42 AM »
Going soft...
Thanks for asking this question, because it's definitely got me thinking a bit more about myself.   I am soft and have been since day one.  My case study helped me identify some things that I didn't know about and make positive changes, but I didn't focus on things that I, myself, had to change.   Lifestyle changes -- those are the hardest, aren't they?  so I've decided to identify some of the things that have always been soft and still are and the changes I'll make for the next month. 

 
1.  Groceries -- need to focus on less waste and better choices.  Grocery store is 2 blocks from my home.  I need to only buy enough produce for one or two days and then buy more. 
2.  Less prepared food purchases.  To attack my dependence on prepared and processed foods, I'm going to ONLY shop in the first two aisles of the supermarket for one month. (produce and meat). 
3.  Transportation -- I've started depending on my car more.  No more local trips in car.  Get the bike muscles going again.
4.  Outsourcing -- was planning to hire someone to plant a few bushes.  I'm putting it on my list to plant the bushes myself.  Also paint and possibly even build a new platform bed by myself. 

That's enough for now.  Groceries are my biggest waste and I really want to fix that!

Don't neglect the spices aisle, that makes a big difference!

No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging. 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

Uturn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Fort Worth, TX
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #427 on: August 31, 2017, 12:24:26 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

I also pick up something in the produce section that I don't know how to cook, then go home and jump on Google.  Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it right.  In the last 3 years I have discovered that I really like Brussels sprouts, kale, parsnips, and butternut squash.  None of those were ever in my diet before.  I have found various ways to make each and have enjoyed the process.
It's not about money, it's about mindset

Cali Nonya

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • Location: California
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #428 on: August 31, 2017, 12:39:49 PM »
P2F
(but not wanting to really get into the fray on this one)

caracarn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 744
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Ohio
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #429 on: August 31, 2017, 12:41:57 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.
I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one. 

Instant Pot.  Put in what you want.  Go enjoy yourself for a while.  Eat it up 20 minutes later. 

Goldielocks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
  • Location: BC
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #430 on: August 31, 2017, 12:49:54 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

Yogurt -- yogurt is a meal for one....   (?!)

Raenia

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #431 on: August 31, 2017, 01:15:29 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

Yogurt -- yogurt is a meal for one....   (?!)

Have you ever tried to cook a single serving of yogurt?  Totally not worth the effort - I make at least a half gallon at a time ;)

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5375
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #432 on: August 31, 2017, 01:19:05 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

Yogurt -- yogurt is a meal for one....   (?!)

Have you ever tried to cook a single serving of yogurt?  Totally not worth the effort - I make at least a half gallon at a time ;)

i do it by the gallon and get about a quart of greek yogurt per time maybe a little bit more.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

lentil

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #433 on: August 31, 2017, 01:22:16 PM »
Quote
I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I'm cooking for 2, so YMMV, but some things that help us:

-- Cook just a few large meals each week (I do use an Instant Pot!). Freeze leftovers into individual portions - I use lidded glass bowls. It was a lot of work the first few times, and got easier as I streamlined my "batch" meals...like I'll sort some ingredients ahead of time, and other corner-cutting.

-- Most produce can be frozen and used later. If I buy spinach, for instance, and don't eat it in the first few days, I freeze the rest. Next time I make a stew/soup/curry/chili, the frozen spinach goes in. Same with a lot of veggies. Or I just chop & freeze them as soon as I get home, when I find an especially good deal on one of our staples.

-- some veggies can just be bought frozen. Uturn mentions Brussels sprouts; where I live, they're cheaper frozen than fresh. So I have a bag in the freezer, and can take out as much as I need at any point, rather than worrying about wasting fresh produce.

-- try to eat the food we have before buying more (this is an ongoing challenge for me!).

I'm working on trimming groceries (better meal planning seems to be the skill I need to exercise most), eating out less, riding my bike more, and building some necessary household improvements too! Seems like there is always something to work on. Maybe we need a September food costs challenge, get us back on track after a lazy summer ;-)

Raenia

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #434 on: August 31, 2017, 01:27:23 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

Yogurt -- yogurt is a meal for one....   (?!)

Have you ever tried to cook a single serving of yogurt?  Totally not worth the effort - I make at least a half gallon at a time ;)

i do it by the gallon and get about a quart of greek yogurt per time maybe a little bit more.

I'm not making greek yogurt, but for a gallon of milk I get 3 quarts of yogurt and almost 2 quarts of whey.  Since greek is thicker, makes sense it would produce less, though I'm surprised it's that big a difference - maybe I'll have to try it out :)

NeonPegasus

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
  • Location: Metro Atlanta, GA
    • Neon Pegasus
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #435 on: August 31, 2017, 06:46:52 PM »
i do it by the gallon and get about a quart of greek yogurt per time maybe a little bit more.

LOL. You make greek yogurt the way I do - keep straining, keep straining, keep straining - until it's nearly cheese.

You must be using non-fat milk. I can't strain nearly as much whey out when I'm making greek yogurt from whole milk as when I make it for me from skim milk.

Every so often, I buy a quart of yogurt for fresh starter and am reminded what the actual consistency is supposed to be.

Goldielocks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
  • Location: BC
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #436 on: August 31, 2017, 11:00:30 PM »
No doubt...but I think I have enough spices, enough rice and beans, enough everything to feed an army!  I need a reset on how to purchase for one person without wasting food.  :(  And also want to reduce packaging.

I have found it almost impossible to cook a meal for one.  So I cook enough for 2-4, and have leftovers.   I cook the vast majority of my own meals, but only cook about 3 times a week. 

Yogurt -- yogurt is a meal for one....   (?!)

Have you ever tried to cook a single serving of yogurt?  Totally not worth the effort - I make at least a half gallon at a time ;)

Haha..   I make about a half gallon  to a gallon at a time, and add homemade jam and finish it off over several servings...  So with the homemade jam it likely takes longer in total....

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7249
  • Registered member
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #437 on: September 01, 2017, 01:24:30 AM »
Some of us have definitely gotten softer as a result of moving up the food chain in terms of wealth/income.

I just spent $100 on cheese and I'm not even sorry.

I've definitely loosened the purse strings a bit.  Never claimed to be one of those "I'd spend the same amount even if I had a billion dollars" people. 

4alpacas

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1715
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #438 on: September 01, 2017, 02:15:28 PM »
Some of us have definitely gotten softer as a result of moving up the food chain in terms of wealth/income.

I just spent $100 on cheese and I'm not even sorry.

I've definitely loosened the purse strings a bit.  Never claimed to be one of those "I'd spend the same amount even if I had a billion dollars" people.
If I had a billion dollars, I definitely donate more money to charity.  However, I can't think of anything that I want and didn't buy because of money reasons. 

GuitarStv

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8792
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #439 on: September 01, 2017, 02:20:33 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle

4alpacas

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1715
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #440 on: September 01, 2017, 02:49:27 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle
Good news!  You can afford to do that in Detroit for about $20k!

I should mention that I am a bit spendier than a lot of mustachians, so my spending doesn't result in any stress.  My DH didn't totally buy into MMM, so I reduced our spending by laziness. By increasing our spending, I would have to spend more time thinking about and executing a spending strategy. 

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1152
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #441 on: September 01, 2017, 03:55:22 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle

I totally would do this also, except with a chunk of land just outside a medium sized city.  Oh, and if it were available, I'd add an invisible barrier that prevents humans and all  of their human-caused noise from entering without permission, but allows natural noise and all non human living creatures to pass (with the exception of dogs, which bark...they are only allowed in with permission also).  Except apparently this hasn't been invented yet, DAMMIT.

GuitarStv

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8792
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #442 on: September 01, 2017, 05:20:45 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle

I totally would do this also, except with a chunk of land just outside a medium sized city.  Oh, and if it were available, I'd add an invisible barrier that prevents humans and all  of their human-caused noise from entering without permission, but allows natural noise and all non human living creatures to pass (with the exception of dogs, which bark...they are only allowed in with permission also).  Except apparently this hasn't been invented yet, DAMMIT.

I call them earplugs.  :P

GuitarStv

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8792
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #443 on: September 01, 2017, 05:22:42 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle
Good news!  You can afford to do that in Detroit for about $20k!

Busy urban area != deserted post apocalyptic hell hole.

Kriegsspiel

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1051
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #444 on: September 01, 2017, 05:41:14 PM »
The city would probably be delighted to sell you a park in one of the inhabited zones. You wouldn't even need to bulldoze buildings! Although I guess you could do that in any city, if money weren't an obstacle... Detroit even fails in imagination-land.

plainjane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #445 on: September 01, 2017, 07:47:27 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle
Good news!  You can afford to do that in Detroit for about $20k!
Busy urban area != deserted post apocalyptic hell hole.

More importantly, if you put a big walled area in a busy urban city, you actually reduce the busy urbanness of it because there are few reasons for anyone to walk by. You end up contributing to a blight.
Using procrastination to my advantage since 2001.

Goldielocks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
  • Location: BC
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #446 on: September 03, 2017, 08:32:21 PM »
On MMM today:

I just saw a post to OP asking where to buy essential oils (for less).
One poster suggested buying them while on vacation in Bali because they are so cheap there.  !!!
---------------------
Another OP looking for cooking and meal planing tips as they don't really cook much now and want to get rid of $20k in cc debt...   
Posters suggesting all sorts of good ideas, but most involving a need to first purchase an instaPot, crockpots, special to go mugs with lids, etc... 

I don't think the way to save $300 off your food bill because you used to have a spending problem is to first buy an InstaPot $100+.

GenXbiker

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 330
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #447 on: September 03, 2017, 10:37:29 PM »
A childhood fantasy of mine that I would indulge in were money no option:
- buy a couple very large city blocks in a busy urban area
- bulldoze all the buildings
- build a large wall around there area
- plant myself a forest where the buildings used to be
- live in a small hut in the middle

I totally would do this also, except with a chunk of land just outside a medium sized city.  Oh, and if it were available, I'd add an invisible barrier that prevents humans and all  of their human-caused noise from entering without permission, but allows natural noise and all non human living creatures to pass (with the exception of dogs, which bark...they are only allowed in with permission also).  Except apparently this hasn't been invented yet, DAMMIT.

I call them earplugs.  :P

I wish.  I try to use earplugs from time to time, but I get even more annoyed with them than I do by unwelcome noise.  The best ones are still poor at blocking low frequency noises.  At least, it's not too bad where I live now - a lawnmower from time to time is about as bad as it gets.

marty998

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4703
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #448 on: September 04, 2017, 03:44:07 AM »
On MMM today:

I just saw a post to OP asking where to buy essential oils (for less).
One poster suggested buying them while on vacation in Bali because they are so cheap there.  !!!
---------------------
Another OP looking for cooking and meal planing tips as they don't really cook much now and want to get rid of $20k in cc debt...   
Posters suggesting all sorts of good ideas, but most involving a need to first purchase an instaPot, crockpots, special to go mugs with lids, etc... 

I don't think the way to save $300 off your food bill because you used to have a spending problem is to first buy an InstaPot $100+.

Especially when it is being bought using credit card funds at high interest rates.

$5 saucepan from target and a stove top. There. Sorted.

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5737
  • Location: Travelling
Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #449 on: September 04, 2017, 04:01:55 AM »
Why pay even $5? When I visited Canada, I got an RV relocation very cheaply, but it didn't include bedding or kitchen stuff (they would have been $160 extra). I went to the local thrift, and got everything I needed (cutlery, plates, knife, wooden spoon, saucepan, fryingpan, microwave big bowl, cutting board, towels, sheets, eiderdown... ) for less than $10. I have gone camping before and bought similar stuff at a local thrift - they all have quite a variety. Of course, if you want a matching set, you need to go elsewhere.