Author Topic: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?  (Read 95259 times)

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #350 on: August 27, 2017, 12:04:38 PM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.

Dicey

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #351 on: August 27, 2017, 12:49:04 PM »
No, the MOST annoying thing is people paying down mortgages who should be killing other debt first or contributing more to their retirement and investment accounts.
There. FTFY.

ender

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #352 on: August 27, 2017, 01:14:38 PM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.

I actually think that one of the reasons the forums have "gone soft" is that the majority of regulars pretty much exclusively post in journals now.


StarBright

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #353 on: August 27, 2017, 02:38:18 PM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.

Excellent point. I never used to respond because I lacked post-cred and then I didn't post because I don't do face punches. But I can do non-face punch gentle course corrections. Especially if no one else responds to the case studies.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 02:44:57 PM by StarBright »

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #354 on: August 27, 2017, 02:42:45 PM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.

Excellent point. I never used to respond because I lacked post-cred and then I didn't post because I don't do face punches. But I can't do non-face punch gentle course corrections. Especially if no one else responds to the case studies.

Mine are pretty damn gentle. And I personally would argue against the "softening" of the forums being a bad thing. Change psychology and all that, if some people at least approach a little more gently and with more understanding, we're way more likely to maximize how many people are helped. Personally, I care way more about saving people from the angst of unstable financial lives than I do feeling like my club is extra cool and small. I *do* think there's a place for some face punches, don't get me wrong, but we need many voices in the chorus. And if it's just a couple of us, it ends up weighted too far one way or another, by virtue of small sample size!

And hey, no shame in a low post count. The quality of your response should be your own credentials, not how much time you've wasted around here (like me, haha).

I mean, look at Sol. He doesn't have a crazy high post count, but anything he posts, people pause to read in depth. His quality content:post number ratio is exceptional. Half the "best thing I read on the forum today" thread is posts by him, with good reason.

sol

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #355 on: August 27, 2017, 02:47:02 PM »
Half the "best thing I read on the forum today" thread is posts by him, with good reason.

Thanks for the love.

Wait, I meant to say "posting to follow" like fifty times in a row.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #356 on: August 27, 2017, 03:07:40 PM »
Half the "best thing I read on the forum today" thread is posts by him, with good reason.

Thanks for the love.

Wait, I meant to say "posting to follow" like fifty times in a row.

Although now I see you have way more posts than I remember! Ha. Point stands though. =)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #357 on: August 27, 2017, 03:55:08 PM »
Dude you're 47 not 87! You are in the prime of life and there's no reason you shouldn't be able to do most everything physical at your age (assuming no disability, illness or injuries). Lots of people on this forum didn't even discover fitness until their 40s or 50s and are now stronger, faster, more flexible, better endurance and healthier then many young 'uns half their age. Don't use age an excuse.

Going all the way back to this one...  I was feeling pretty rough by my late 30's.  I can personally vouch for adopting the way of the mustache to be very effective at getting me in better shape.  Things I struggled to do in my 30's I can now do barely breaking a sweat in my 40's!  I'd thought I was on my way to a knee replacement due to how much it hurt all the time.  Now it's perfectly fine.  My problem was lounging around in luxury.  Don't do that.  It's bad for the body!

+1. Similar experience here.

Despite my crappy knees I lasted longer doing yard work yesterday than my DD did.  Office jobs do not build arm muscles.  ;-)

Lews Therin

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #358 on: August 27, 2017, 04:15:05 PM »
Half the "best thing I read on the forum today" thread is posts by him, with good reason.

Thanks for the love.

Wait, I meant to say "posting to follow" like fifty times in a row.

I'd estimate 5% is him trying to make people be rational about blenders.

Pretty sure he loves Vitamix.

... Or was it the other way round? He seems so undecided.

slappy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #359 on: August 27, 2017, 04:49:16 PM »
Half the "best thing I read on the forum today" thread is posts by him, with good reason.

Thanks for the love.

Wait, I meant to say "posting to follow" like fifty times in a row.

Haha. That moment when you get an email notification that a response has been posted to a thread you are following, and it turns out to be "posting to follow". :/

CanuckExpat

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #360 on: August 27, 2017, 04:56:54 PM »
No the MOST annoying thing is people paying down mortgages.  And a whole thread dedicated to it.

Just to annoy you, I posted about a tax reason for possibly paying off your motgage: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/taxes/earned-income-tax-credit/msg1672304/#msg1672304

(Ok, it was a hypothetical corner case, and even then not fully compelling)

Travis

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #361 on: August 27, 2017, 08:23:34 PM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.

I'll be on a case study on occasion, but my advice tends to be limited to the basic "here's how to fix your spending" stuff that gets answered in the first 6 posts. I don't own real estate, don't pay for my own healthcare, and I know squat about taxes so there's only so much I can do to help.  I look at the case studies every day, but if I missed the OP by the first couple hours the conversation leaves me behind.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #362 on: August 28, 2017, 06:01:11 AM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.
I'll be on a case study on occasion, but my advice tends to be limited to the basic "here's how to fix your spending" stuff that gets answered in the first 6 posts. I don't own real estate, don't pay for my own healthcare, and I know squat about taxes so there's only so much I can do to help.  I look at the case studies every day, but if I missed the OP by the first couple hours the conversation leaves me behind.

I got pretty much burned out during the beatles case study and have not felt up to posting in case studies since.  Plus Americans - situations are too different.


boarder42

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #363 on: August 28, 2017, 06:21:23 AM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.
I'll be on a case study on occasion, but my advice tends to be limited to the basic "here's how to fix your spending" stuff that gets answered in the first 6 posts. I don't own real estate, don't pay for my own healthcare, and I know squat about taxes so there's only so much I can do to help.  I look at the case studies every day, but if I missed the OP by the first couple hours the conversation leaves me behind.

I got pretty much burned out during the beatles case study and have not felt up to posting in case studies since.  Plus Americans - situations are too different.

creating a section for case studies has hurt them the most i think.  when they were in ask a mustachian i would see them and comment on a few every now and then.  but with them in their own section i never really venture to they have been hurt in their value.

wenchsenior

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #364 on: August 28, 2017, 09:01:22 AM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.
I'll be on a case study on occasion, but my advice tends to be limited to the basic "here's how to fix your spending" stuff that gets answered in the first 6 posts. I don't own real estate, don't pay for my own healthcare, and I know squat about taxes so there's only so much I can do to help.  I look at the case studies every day, but if I missed the OP by the first couple hours the conversation leaves me behind.

I got pretty much burned out during the beatles case study and have not felt up to posting in case studies since.  Plus Americans - situations are too different.

creating a section for case studies has hurt them the most i think.  when they were in ask a mustachian i would see them and comment on a few every now and then.  but with them in their own section i never really venture to they have been hurt in their value.

Yeah, I never even go into that section of the forum.   It's weird...it's like when we first moved to this city, and the 'small' Barnes and Noble was on 'our side' of the highway loop in a small strip mall. We used to stop in every week.  Then it moved to become a 'huge' Barnes and Noble in the mall, which was approximately 1 km further up the same street on the other side of the highway loop.  And all of a sudden, we just stopped going there.  I can't figure out if it was the mental hurdle of 'going to the mall' to go there, or if it was purely not wanting to drive through that extra couple of lights. Brains are strange.

FINate

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #365 on: August 28, 2017, 09:40:34 AM »
Dude you're 47 not 87! You are in the prime of life and there's no reason you shouldn't be able to do most everything physical at your age (assuming no disability, illness or injuries). Lots of people on this forum didn't even discover fitness until their 40s or 50s and are now stronger, faster, more flexible, better endurance and healthier then many young 'uns half their age. Don't use age an excuse.

Going all the way back to this one...  I was feeling pretty rough by my late 30's.  I can personally vouch for adopting the way of the mustache to be very effective at getting me in better shape.  Things I struggled to do in my 30's I can now do barely breaking a sweat in my 40's!  I'd thought I was on my way to a knee replacement due to how much it hurt all the time.  Now it's perfectly fine.  My problem was lounging around in luxury.  Don't do that.  It's bad for the body!

+1. Similar experience here.

Despite my crappy knees I lasted longer doing yard work yesterday than my DD did.  Office jobs do not build arm muscles.  ;-)
I guess I was  little harsh in my response (I've gone soft!)  and am a bit overly sensitive to the "people over 40 are too old to do physical stuff" I see around here often. In my real life I see so many people who are extremely fit and healthy in their upper 40s, 50s, and beyond - and this forum is littered with them too - that I hate it when people make generalizations about how older people are less capable of physical DIY things just because they are over 40. Although we may be a bit creakier after our 100 mile bike rides, our 20 mile hikes just to get to a place to climb, our 50 mile ocean kayaks, or our ultra marathons than the young uns but we can still now our own damn lawns with our push/reel mowers ourselfs ;-)!

Preach it!

infogoon

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #366 on: August 28, 2017, 09:44:18 AM »
Thanks, Dicey! I'm pretty sure most of us can (and do) go a year or more without buying clothes.

Wait, you can buy clothes? Mine all come from IT conferences and bike races.

Kris

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #367 on: August 28, 2017, 09:44:42 AM »
Dude you're 47 not 87! You are in the prime of life and there's no reason you shouldn't be able to do most everything physical at your age (assuming no disability, illness or injuries). Lots of people on this forum didn't even discover fitness until their 40s or 50s and are now stronger, faster, more flexible, better endurance and healthier then many young 'uns half their age. Don't use age an excuse.

Going all the way back to this one...  I was feeling pretty rough by my late 30's.  I can personally vouch for adopting the way of the mustache to be very effective at getting me in better shape.  Things I struggled to do in my 30's I can now do barely breaking a sweat in my 40's!  I'd thought I was on my way to a knee replacement due to how much it hurt all the time.  Now it's perfectly fine.  My problem was lounging around in luxury.  Don't do that.  It's bad for the body!

+1. Similar experience here.

Despite my crappy knees I lasted longer doing yard work yesterday than my DD did.  Office jobs do not build arm muscles.  ;-)
I guess I was  little harsh in my response (I've gone soft!)  and am a bit overly sensitive to the "people over 40 are too old to do physical stuff" I see around here often. In my real life I see so many people who are extremely fit and healthy in their upper 40s, 50s, and beyond - and this forum is littered with them too - that I hate it when people make generalizations about how older people are less capable of physical DIY things just because they are over 40. Although we may be a bit creakier after our 100 mile bike rides, our 20 mile hikes just to get to a place to climb, our 50 mile ocean kayaks, or our ultra marathons than the young uns but we can still mow our own damn lawns (and yell at you to get off them) with our push/reel mowers ourselfs ;-)!

I agree. An otherwise reasonably healthy 30-70 (at least) year-old person's stamina and ability to do physical stuff is pretty damn dependent on their level of activity versus sedentary-ness. It's amazing how little physical activity it takes to make a huge difference. If you're feeling old and creaky, get off the couch and start doing the stuff you don't think you can do. You'll soon find out that you can.

Caoineag

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #368 on: August 28, 2017, 09:45:56 AM »
I have seen 80 year olds who make me ashamed of my fitness level so while aging does happen, a lot of people could do more to preserve their health. When I found myself starting to get lazy, I upped my exercise and it makes a huge difference to your long term abilities.

Kris

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #369 on: August 28, 2017, 09:54:14 AM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.
I'll be on a case study on occasion, but my advice tends to be limited to the basic "here's how to fix your spending" stuff that gets answered in the first 6 posts. I don't own real estate, don't pay for my own healthcare, and I know squat about taxes so there's only so much I can do to help.  I look at the case studies every day, but if I missed the OP by the first couple hours the conversation leaves me behind.

I got pretty much burned out during the beatles case study and have not felt up to posting in case studies since.  Plus Americans - situations are too different.
The Beatles case study ended my desire to offer advise too. That one was such a train wreck. Just too much "NO! I don't wanna give up buying $800 blenders even though I'm $500k in debt! I neeeeeeeddddd them" going on in the case studies it gets frustrating after awhile.

Dammit, now I'm curious. Can someone link to that case study, or PM me?

FINate

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #370 on: August 28, 2017, 10:07:39 AM »
Thanks, Dicey! I'm pretty sure most of us can (and do) go a year or more without buying clothes.

Wait, you can buy clothes? Mine all come from IT conferences and bike races.

I get my short sleeve shirts from second hand stores. But I'm 6'6" with 36" inseam and have never found a pair of used pants that fit so, unfortunately, I must buy these new from online stores that carry tall sizes.

infogoon

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #371 on: August 28, 2017, 10:30:28 AM »
I get my short sleeve shirts from second hand stores. But I'm 6'6" with 36" inseam and have never found a pair of used pants that fit so, unfortunately, I must buy these new from online stores that carry tall sizes.

I wear 38x38 trousers. Solidarity, brother.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #372 on: August 28, 2017, 10:58:27 AM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.
I'll be on a case study on occasion, but my advice tends to be limited to the basic "here's how to fix your spending" stuff that gets answered in the first 6 posts. I don't own real estate, don't pay for my own healthcare, and I know squat about taxes so there's only so much I can do to help.  I look at the case studies every day, but if I missed the OP by the first couple hours the conversation leaves me behind.

I got pretty much burned out during the beatles case study and have not felt up to posting in case studies since.  Plus Americans - situations are too different.
The Beatles case study ended my desire to offer advise too. That one was such a train wreck. Just too much "NO! I don't wanna give up buying $800 blenders even though I'm $500k in debt! I neeeeeeeddddd them" going on in the case studies it gets frustrating after awhile.

I've largely given up on case studies too, because there are far too many newbies coming in who want to know how to become wealthy without changing any of their behavior at all. The truth is that they don't really want to become wealthy. They want to get more material goods.

Kris

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #373 on: August 28, 2017, 11:12:07 AM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.
I'll be on a case study on occasion, but my advice tends to be limited to the basic "here's how to fix your spending" stuff that gets answered in the first 6 posts. I don't own real estate, don't pay for my own healthcare, and I know squat about taxes so there's only so much I can do to help.  I look at the case studies every day, but if I missed the OP by the first couple hours the conversation leaves me behind.

I got pretty much burned out during the beatles case study and have not felt up to posting in case studies since.  Plus Americans - situations are too different.
The Beatles case study ended my desire to offer advise too. That one was such a train wreck. Just too much "NO! I don't wanna give up buying $800 blenders even though I'm $500k in debt! I neeeeeeeddddd them" going on in the case studies it gets frustrating after awhile.

I've largely given up on case studies too, because there are far too many newbies coming in who want to know how to become wealthy without changing any of their behavior at all. The truth is that they don't really want to become wealthy. They want to get more material goods.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

boarder42

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #374 on: August 28, 2017, 11:32:32 AM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.
I'll be on a case study on occasion, but my advice tends to be limited to the basic "here's how to fix your spending" stuff that gets answered in the first 6 posts. I don't own real estate, don't pay for my own healthcare, and I know squat about taxes so there's only so much I can do to help.  I look at the case studies every day, but if I missed the OP by the first couple hours the conversation leaves me behind.

I got pretty much burned out during the beatles case study and have not felt up to posting in case studies since.  Plus Americans - situations are too different.
The Beatles case study ended my desire to offer advise too. That one was such a train wreck. Just too much "NO! I don't wanna give up buying $800 blenders even though I'm $500k in debt! I neeeeeeeddddd them" going on in the case studies it gets frustrating after awhile.

I've largely given up on case studies too, because there are far too many newbies coming in who want to know how to become wealthy without changing any of their behavior at all. The truth is that they don't really want to become wealthy. They want to get more material goods.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

there are ways to have both. 
1. earn a lot but save alot
2. spend your money very wisely <- this needs a lot more work done on it the FIRE community does not nearly delve deeep enough into how to intelligently spend money and stretch a dollar
3. side hustle in the areas of your extra spending.

Kris

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #375 on: August 28, 2017, 11:34:49 AM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.
I'll be on a case study on occasion, but my advice tends to be limited to the basic "here's how to fix your spending" stuff that gets answered in the first 6 posts. I don't own real estate, don't pay for my own healthcare, and I know squat about taxes so there's only so much I can do to help.  I look at the case studies every day, but if I missed the OP by the first couple hours the conversation leaves me behind.

I got pretty much burned out during the beatles case study and have not felt up to posting in case studies since.  Plus Americans - situations are too different.
The Beatles case study ended my desire to offer advise too. That one was such a train wreck. Just too much "NO! I don't wanna give up buying $800 blenders even though I'm $500k in debt! I neeeeeeeddddd them" going on in the case studies it gets frustrating after awhile.

I've largely given up on case studies too, because there are far too many newbies coming in who want to know how to become wealthy without changing any of their behavior at all. The truth is that they don't really want to become wealthy. They want to get more material goods.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

there are ways to have both. 
1. earn a lot but save alot
2. spend your money very wisely <- this needs a lot more work done on it the FIRE community does not nearly delve deeep enough into how to intelligently spend money and stretch a dollar
3. side hustle in the areas of your extra spending.

Yes. But the second desire is antithetical to mustachianism.

jambongris

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #376 on: August 28, 2017, 11:47:03 AM »
I will say, those who think the whole forum has gone soft- help on the damn case studies then. There's like 3 of us that reply. I literally keep a file of useful links for them. Do I always love answering questions about  the same like 4 scenarios that get posted? No. But people always feel like their numbers are unique, and their situation is unique, and want unique answers. Even if it's the same links I give everyone else, it's on their thread, and so they're more likely to pay attention.

If you think the forums have gone soft, then don't isolate yourself on the threads that are purely theoretical in nature or later in the "saving cycle", and venture out into the posts by newcomers. Aka, don't complain about it if you aren't going to do anything to change it and shape it.
I'll be on a case study on occasion, but my advice tends to be limited to the basic "here's how to fix your spending" stuff that gets answered in the first 6 posts. I don't own real estate, don't pay for my own healthcare, and I know squat about taxes so there's only so much I can do to help.  I look at the case studies every day, but if I missed the OP by the first couple hours the conversation leaves me behind.

I got pretty much burned out during the beatles case study and have not felt up to posting in case studies since.  Plus Americans - situations are too different.
The Beatles case study ended my desire to offer advise too. That one was such a train wreck. Just too much "NO! I don't wanna give up buying $800 blenders even though I'm $500k in debt! I neeeeeeeddddd them" going on in the case studies it gets frustrating after awhile.

Dammit, now I'm curious. Can someone link to that case study, or PM me?

Possibly this one: The beatles Case Study

Khaetra

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #377 on: August 28, 2017, 01:56:43 PM »
The original beatles thread (some edited but after the first page you'll get the idea):

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/help-please/msg1368640/#msg1368640

tralfamadorian

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #378 on: August 28, 2017, 04:42:37 PM »
Despite the frustrating back and forth, those who contributed to the beatles' threads seemed to make a real impact (last post on their blog):
https://stackingpennies.org/tens-thousands-debt-tens-thousands-savings-2/

tl:dr; They sold the rental and paid off their loan shark loans.  Whether the changes in spending habits are long lasting is another question.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #379 on: August 28, 2017, 04:45:09 PM »
OMFG. I was not previously familiar with the beatles threads. There's 30 minutes I'll never get back...and I didn't even attempt the actual case study thread novel, other than perusing a few posts on the last couple of pages. Train. Wreck. (Or troll? Wait...never mind...don't answer that.)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #380 on: August 28, 2017, 05:06:22 PM »

there are ways to have both. 
1. earn a lot but save alot
2. spend your money very wisely <- this needs a lot more work done on it the FIRE community does not nearly delve deeep enough into how to intelligently spend money and stretch a dollar
3. side hustle in the areas of your extra spending.

There are threads on this.  And it shows up all over the place - i.e. all the Craig`s List/Kijiji/thrift shop shopping, the sales purchases, the shift from eating out to eating in to really good food spending, etc.  Basically the MMM way of budgeting - i.e. examine every purchase for real value, only buy what is of true value - when you go that route you can trim all the low-hanging fruit and lots of less obvious stupid spending.  And t e joy of it is that each time a spending area is examined, more "needs" turn into "wants" and are eliminated.  --> no cable, no car, no whatever was realized to be irrelevant for a joyful life.

lhamo

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #381 on: August 28, 2017, 06:06:05 PM »
Despite the frustrating back and forth, those who contributed to the beatles' threads seemed to make a real impact (last post on their blog):
https://stackingpennies.org/tens-thousands-debt-tens-thousands-savings-2/

tl:dr; They sold the rental and paid off their loan shark loans.  Whether the changes in spending habits are long lasting is another question.

Wow -- I'm pleasantly surprised they turned things around so quickly.   Sometimes the facepunches do work, I guess!

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #382 on: August 28, 2017, 06:11:47 PM »
Despite the frustrating back and forth, those who contributed to the beatles' threads seemed to make a real impact (last post on their blog):
https://stackingpennies.org/tens-thousands-debt-tens-thousands-savings-2/

tl:dr; They sold the rental and paid off their loan shark loans.  Whether the changes in spending habits are long lasting is another question.

Wow -- I'm pleasantly surprised they turned things around so quickly.   Sometimes the facepunches do work, I guess!

Sometimes it felt a little more like a hostage negotiation than facepunches ;) Haha. But yeah, always amazing to see when you start to get through to people!

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #383 on: August 29, 2017, 12:29:52 AM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

With the infrequent blog posts and increasing media coverage, it seems like there are more people who wander in and don't realise that spending less and saving more are key tenets to what we do here. It would be good if we could direct people to a sticky to see if they are lost. Like if you checked into a budget motel and started asking where is the pool and what time is turndown; you'd want to be gently redirected someplace else.

I'm thinking particularly of I Want My Lifestyle Inflation, there are others. I'm not sure that there have been many people that start off with "tell me the magic secret so that I can buy more stuff" and then stick around long term, so it wouldn't be a massive loss to the community. Unless Beatles has a new handle, they kinda gathered up the guidance and then used it as a springboard to their blog; it didn't make me feel good for all the people here who put time into helping Beatles out.

infogoon

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #384 on: August 29, 2017, 07:53:14 AM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work.

Dabnasty

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #385 on: August 29, 2017, 09:07:17 AM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work.
I don't think the blog necessarily makes that assumption. He says on several occasions that high earners who spend too much were the reason he started the blog, but there are principles that apply to most people. It's a matter of knowing what does and doesn't apply to you. Articles like Hedonic Adaptation apply to everyone and to me the principle based articles are the most important. I am not a high earner but once I started reading articles I remember feeling like I had written some of it myself. I hadn't really thought about ER per se but I did think I could save enough to choose jobs based on what I wanted to do rather than the pay.

I do get your point though. If a new reader sees the awesome possibility that some people have, they want a piece too. For those people I think we can help by pointing them to the right articles and to temper their expectations.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/29/reader-case-study-how-can-i-climb-out-of-the-gutter/


rdaneel0

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #386 on: August 29, 2017, 09:20:30 AM »
Yep, I think it has to an extent. That case study on wanting lifestyle inflation (if not a straight up troll) was pretty gross. I joined to comment (long time reader and MMM weirdo) partially because it seemed like a lot of the conversations were going the way of "you deserve that" and "here's why a brand new car makes sense for me".

The softness here is actually probably a good sign, it means MMM has gone more mainstream and more people are getting involved. Yes, we will eventually probably lose the hardcore ERE vibe completely, but if it means lots of people who were otherwise in debt start saving even 30% of their incomes and paying off debt...maybe it's worth it? If that happens, we're all resourceful enough that I'm sure we'll find a new place to congregate and talk about our crazy public transit/bike commutes and 20+ year old shoes :)

Also, I second that lots of the more serious folks are still here in the Journals section, and I'm going to make more of an effort to do case studies in the future based on what a pp wrote here.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #387 on: August 29, 2017, 09:24:27 AM »
Guys, I've definitely already noticed an uptick in people replying to case studies. THANK YOU =) The message from many voices with carry way more weight! Consider it a weird digital version of community service. That mindset always helps me reply to the "meh" ones, that haven't gotten any answers after a day or more!

Dabnasty

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #388 on: August 29, 2017, 09:36:01 AM »
Yup. I haven't looked at case studies in a while but this thread served as a reminder. I guess we all need a little poke in the ribs every once in a while.

And even though I don't always have much to add due to lack of experience (never transitioned, always been cheap :) I can rehash the same old responses for newbies, sometimes that's what people need. Make them feel like their case is unique even when it's not.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #389 on: August 29, 2017, 09:41:56 AM »
Yup. I haven't looked at case studies in a while but this thread served as a reminder. I guess we all need a little poke in the ribs every once in a while.

And even though I don't always have much to add due to lack of experience (never transitioned, always been cheap :) I can rehash the same old responses for newbies, sometimes that's what people need. Make them feel like their case is unique even when it's not.

Exactly. Most of it is NOT anything you need expertise for. It's just like: track your expenses. No, you don't get to have a "misc" category, what does that mean? Don't assume renting is throwing money away. There's a thing called an IRA, it's neat, you should learn about that.

Basically, anyone that's been around a bit is definitely "qualified" to help =)

Paul der Krake

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #390 on: August 29, 2017, 09:46:15 AM »
I don't get the whole "well I'm not high income and my life is hard therefore I deserve a break on this or that". On the contrary, the more precarious your situation, the more on top of your shit you need to be. This is not a value statement or social commentary on the issue of the day- just the fastest path to resolution.

Look, there's a not insignificant number of people here who can set a $100 bill on fire every morning when they go to work, and still retire 30 years before normal retirement age. Fair or not, that's the math.

Looking for exculpatory ways to justify bad choices you cannot afford to make is silly.

Case studies: I still read them but it's rare to find one with interesting circumstances. There's only so many times you can point to MDM's investment order thread and tell people to stop doing silly things they already know they shouldn't be doing.

Dabnasty

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #391 on: August 29, 2017, 10:03:15 AM »
I don't get the whole "well I'm not high income and my life is hard therefore I deserve a break on this or that". On the contrary, the more precarious your situation, the more on top of your shit you need to be. This is not a value statement or social commentary on the issue of the day- just the fastest path to resolution.
This is one of those mystical elements of money based in emotion and not reason. It's been discussed to death in the blog and forums both but the idea of "I deserve it" still escapes my grasp. I have trouble comprehending this line of thinking since I've always recognized that it's MY money and it doesn't matter what I deserve. If I'm the one who pays then deserving it has nothing to do with the decision. If some other person is buying it for me then sure but... I just don't know what to say to people with this mentality. I can explain it as I have here but I don't think it really gets through to most people.

Any ideas on how to explain this concept to someone who has a fundamentally different view of money? Tall order, I know

slappy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #392 on: August 29, 2017, 10:03:31 AM »
I don't get the whole "well I'm not high income and my life is hard therefore I deserve a break on this or that". On the contrary, the more precarious your situation, the more on top of your shit you need to be. This is not a value statement or social commentary on the issue of the day- just the fastest path to resolution.

Look, there's a not insignificant number of people here who can set a $100 bill on fire every morning when they go to work, and still retire 30 years before normal retirement age. Fair or not, that's the math.

Looking for exculpatory ways to justify bad choices you cannot afford to make is silly.

Case studies: I still read them but it's rare to find one with interesting circumstances. There's only so many times you can point to MDM's investment order thread and tell people to stop doing silly things they already know they shouldn't be doing.

Re:Case studies-this is why I haven't posted one yet. I've read enough of them to know what I'm doing wrong. I'm working on changing a few things and then I will probably post one. I know where I deserve facepunhes. :)

Dicey

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #393 on: August 29, 2017, 10:23:20 AM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

I think one thing that needs to be emphasized is that MMM assumes that readers are in a relatively high income household, preferably one with dual incomes and no or few children. The basic core of the message is "make a lot of money, but live as if you don't, and invest the surplus". Sometimes people show up with three kids and a household income of $30k and expect advice that will enable them to retire in five years. The math doesn't work.
I politely call BS. The math DOES work, it just takes a little or (even a lot) longer. The five years won't happen, but FIRE can still be reached eventually. Earn more, spend less, invest the difference is solid advice, no matter what your situation.

dycker1978

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #394 on: August 29, 2017, 10:26:13 AM »
WOW, I was just reading a new thread.  Someone is looking for an alternative to having a TV in their living room for when guests come over, for entertainment.  Some one says "the frame by Samsung" which is a fancy pant TV designed to look like a picture frame, starting at 2000...

What has this forum come to?

Goldielocks

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #395 on: August 29, 2017, 10:31:31 AM »
Would it be inappropriate to have a sticky titled "10 signs MMM may not be for you" or similar?

With the infrequent blog posts and increasing media coverage, it seems like there are more people who wander in and don't realise that spending less and saving more are key tenets to what we do here. It would be good if we could direct people to a sticky to see if they are lost. Like if you checked into a budget motel and started asking where is the pool and what time is turndown; you'd want to be gently redirected someplace else.

I'm thinking particularly of I Want My Lifestyle Inflation, there are others. I'm not sure that there have been many people that start off with "tell me the magic secret so that I can buy more stuff" and then stick around long term, so it wouldn't be a massive loss to the community. Unless Beatles has a new handle, they kinda gathered up the guidance and then used it as a springboard to their blog; it didn't make me feel good for all the people here who put time into helping Beatles out.

Oh, the Beatles thread was outrageously fun, in retrospect.  I did try, too....

The stickies is a neat idea... but we all fall into the trap of wanting stuff, from time to time, and most of us belong here, so I would not be too harsh about it...

Goldielocks

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #396 on: August 29, 2017, 10:37:31 AM »
Guys, I've definitely already noticed an uptick in people replying to case studies. THANK YOU =) The message from many voices with carry way more weight! Consider it a weird digital version of community service. That mindset always helps me reply to the "meh" ones, that haven't gotten any answers after a day or more!

B_J

Truthfully,   sometimes there are just so many numbers in the case studies.   I used to love doing all the analysis, but then got tired of so many case studies and the numbers, it makes my head swim to do more than one if I focus on the numbers, and then the questions start about backdoor Roths (and I am not american so never bothered to review that concept in detail).   

I don't mind posting general feedback comments on line items that seem to be out of whack, though, or entirely missing budget line items...  will do more....

PoutineLover

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #397 on: August 29, 2017, 10:44:26 AM »
Wait, do we think we should give up on helping people with case studies just because they are still at the beginning of their journey or don't have the same circumstances to contend with? All of us had to unlearn bad habits at some point, and this forum shouldn't be limited to people who already know everything. I'm on a middle of the road path to FIRE (not extreme frugality, but also very conscious of my spending) and there's a lot I can learn here. I did a case study a while back and found it pretty helpful actually, so thanks if you responded there.
Everyone has a different number, timeline and circumstances to deal with, and I don't think this forum should be a cult of WWMMMD. He had the high income, early savings, paid off house, DIY skills, no disability path to FIRE. I have the average income, early savings, renting, limited DIY, no disability path. These will look different. There are other variables. We should be using our skills to help those who ask for it, facepunch them when needed, but with actual options not just "thats stupid why would you ever do that". My personal goal is to live a life centered around my values, with minimum environmental impact, and reach financial independence so I can choose how to spend my time and money. Let's not become the ERpolice around here, even MMM doesn't like them.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #398 on: August 29, 2017, 10:46:58 AM »
Guys, I've definitely already noticed an uptick in people replying to case studies. THANK YOU =) The message from many voices with carry way more weight! Consider it a weird digital version of community service. That mindset always helps me reply to the "meh" ones, that haven't gotten any answers after a day or more!

B_J

Truthfully,   sometimes there are just so many numbers in the case studies.   I used to love doing all the analysis, but then got tired of so many case studies and the numbers, it makes my head swim to do more than one if I focus on the numbers, and then the questions start about backdoor Roths (and I am not american so never bothered to review that concept in detail).   

I don't mind posting general feedback comments on line items that seem to be out of whack, though, or entirely missing budget line items...  will do more....

Honestly, stuff like "wait, where is your fuel and electric?" helps a TON. 75% of the time I miss that that stuff is missing, haha. So when someone mentions it I'm like "OH!" And that's why having more people in helps.

But yes, the wash of numbers and tax code can get tedious. That's why a lot of times I just offer links on that stuff, rather than addressing it directly. I am DEFINITELY not the ideal person to be replying to case studies. But if the alternative is no one? Well, then I guess me, my links, and my inattentiveness will have to do ;) haha.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #399 on: August 29, 2017, 11:49:57 AM »
I also hereby pledge to put at least a token amount of effort into finding and responding to the UK case studies if I would like to continue complaining about how it's not like it was in my day.