Author Topic: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?  (Read 59797 times)

CanuckExpat

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #250 on: August 24, 2017, 11:22:35 AM »
Maybe you can start a sticky with "the original meaning of mustachianism" or something. Or an "I will tell you if you are a bad*ss" thread. I'm not being facetious and actually think something like that would be sort of fun.

Just take everything in this this thread and remove the sarcasm.

I miss that discussion.  Especially the folks who couldn't comprehend the entire thing was tongue in cheek.

Resurrected it, just for you, and this thread :)
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GuitarStv

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #251 on: August 24, 2017, 11:25:53 AM »
But what if "my values" tell me that my regular Wednesday Applebee's run really adds happiness and joy to my life?  Don't I deserve it?

No!  No one's happiness should ever by tied to Applebee's.

Words to live by.

Wait, are you telling me that my personal value system for how to spend my money shouldn't be the sole determining factor of whether or not I am making financially prudent decisions?  That's become hearsay around these parts.  It wasn't that long ago that I had 30 people from this forum tell me to buy a $600 blender because it would radically change my life for the better.


As a quick reminder to everyone, approximately one billion human beings on planet earth currently live on less than one dollar per day.  That's a total annual income of less than what this forum recommends you spend on a fucking blender.  Screw all of you who think like that, right in the ear.  Your wasteful consumer spending is a disgrace to every moral principle humanity is supposed to embody, and I have no reservations about calling you out for it. 

I'm pretty disgusted by what this place has become.

How's the new blender working out though?  Life changing?  :P

SoundFuture

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #252 on: August 24, 2017, 11:44:41 AM »


Wait, are you telling me that my personal value system for how to spend my money shouldn't be the sole determining factor of whether or not I am making financially prudent decisions?  That's become hearsay around these parts.  It wasn't that long ago that I had 30 people from this forum tell me to buy a $600 blender because it would radically change my life for the better.


As a quick reminder to everyone, approximately one billion human beings on planet earth currently live on less than one dollar per day.  That's a total annual income of less than what this forum recommends you spend on a fucking blender.  Screw all of you who think like that, right in the ear.  Your wasteful consumer spending is a disgrace to every moral principle humanity is supposed to embody, and I have no reservations about calling you out for it. 

I'm pretty disgusted by what this place has become.

I giggled into my ~$0.75 homemade lunch.

GenXbiker

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #253 on: August 24, 2017, 11:45:10 AM »
I was that poster. I assumed as mustachians that we'd be maxing out tax saving vehicles. And I did mention the reduced taxable income as clarification in a subsequent post.

Are you saying that those deductions do not exist in the States? Or that the maximums for tax savings vehicles are lower? Honest question b/c I do not know the answer.

It would be unmustachian for me to do so.

At my age, the maximum contribution is $24,000 through my company retirement plan (401k, 403b, etc).   But the problem is that any tax savings can be eaten up quickly over a several years when your company retirement plan has high fees.  Ours used to have a 1.5% management fee on top of the fund expense ratios, which are high as well.  The management fee is half that much now, but within 5 years, a post-tax investment comes out ahead.  So I invest $6000 in the company pre-tax retirement plan to take advantage of the company match to that level, I am not qualified for a standard IRA because of my income, but I am under the threshold that allows me to invest in a Roth, so I max out $6500 there, but since it's post-tax, the contributions don't lower my tax bill.  Due to my high savings rate, most of my savings still goes to non-retirement savings in my Vanguard account.

So, for a single earner in the U.S., I'm paying about $26,000 in taxes on $103,000 adjusted gross income (before subtracting about $10,000 in additional deductions).  Then $3700 property tax, 8% to 10% sales tax, gas taxes, etc.  Health insurance is extra - I'm actually getting a great deal there with a very low deductible.

Oh, that's interesting. Is the States, are the only tax-advantaged vehicles the company provided plans? In Canada, we can use Vangaard or whatever we like.

No.  If it wasn't for my income level and having a retirement plan through work, I would be able to put $6500 into a traditional IRA pre-tax.   Here is the rule for a traditional IRA that I copied / pasted:

"If you have a workplace retirement plan, the deduction for your traditional IRA contribution is phased out completely if your AGI is $118,000 or more (married couple filing jointly) or $71,000 or more (individual), or $10,000 for a married person filing separately."

Since my AGI is well over $71,000, I can't take advantage of it, which is why I do the Roth instead.


StarBright

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #254 on: August 24, 2017, 11:47:50 AM »
Maybe you can start a sticky with "the original meaning of mustachianism" or something. Or an "I will tell you if you are a bad*ss" thread. I'm not being facetious and actually think something like that would be sort of fun.

Just take everything in this this thread and remove the sarcasm.

that was fun :)

Dabnasty

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #255 on: August 24, 2017, 11:52:57 AM »


Wait, are you telling me that my personal value system for how to spend my money shouldn't be the sole determining factor of whether or not I am making financially prudent decisions?  That's become hearsay around these parts.  It wasn't that long ago that I had 30 people from this forum tell me to buy a $600 blender because it would radically change my life for the better.


As a quick reminder to everyone, approximately one billion human beings on planet earth currently live on less than one dollar per day.  That's a total annual income of less than what this forum recommends you spend on a fucking blender.  Screw all of you who think like that, right in the ear.  Your wasteful consumer spending is a disgrace to every moral principle humanity is supposed to embody, and I have no reservations about calling you out for it. 

I'm pretty disgusted by what this place has become.

I giggled into my ~$0.75 homemade lunch.
Dang. I thought I could beat that but my gumbo & rice came out to $1.23. It's also 1100 calories though, so I don't feel too bad.

Canadian Ben

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #256 on: August 24, 2017, 12:13:02 PM »
Ha Kraft dinner wins again. 49c per box.

Two boxes makes three meals! 33c a meal!

Healthy is for other people. I need to FI.

Optimiser

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #257 on: August 24, 2017, 12:16:12 PM »


Wait, are you telling me that my personal value system for how to spend my money shouldn't be the sole determining factor of whether or not I am making financially prudent decisions?  That's become hearsay around these parts.  It wasn't that long ago that I had 30 people from this forum tell me to buy a $600 blender because it would radically change my life for the better.


As a quick reminder to everyone, approximately one billion human beings on planet earth currently live on less than one dollar per day.  That's a total annual income of less than what this forum recommends you spend on a fucking blender.  Screw all of you who think like that, right in the ear.  Your wasteful consumer spending is a disgrace to every moral principle humanity is supposed to embody, and I have no reservations about calling you out for it. 

I'm pretty disgusted by what this place has become.

I giggled into my ~$0.75 homemade lunch.
Dang. I thought I could beat that but my gumbo & rice came out to $1.23. It's also 1100 calories though, so I don't feel too bad.

You are both consumer suckas. I'm not eating lunch today.

Dabnasty

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #258 on: August 24, 2017, 12:20:24 PM »
Ha Kraft dinner wins again. 49c per box.

Two boxes makes three meals! 33c a meal!

Healthy is for other people. I need to FI.
Hmm, that's hard to beat. I can do healthy for around $2/day with rice/beans/cheap vegetables but that would be a 100% increase in food budget for you! AND your in Quebec City. Good luck.

Travis

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #259 on: August 24, 2017, 12:24:34 PM »


Wait, are you telling me that my personal value system for how to spend my money shouldn't be the sole determining factor of whether or not I am making financially prudent decisions?  That's become hearsay around these parts.  It wasn't that long ago that I had 30 people from this forum tell me to buy a $600 blender because it would radically change my life for the better.


As a quick reminder to everyone, approximately one billion human beings on planet earth currently live on less than one dollar per day.  That's a total annual income of less than what this forum recommends you spend on a fucking blender.  Screw all of you who think like that, right in the ear.  Your wasteful consumer spending is a disgrace to every moral principle humanity is supposed to embody, and I have no reservations about calling you out for it. 

I'm pretty disgusted by what this place has become.

I giggled into my ~$0.75 homemade lunch.
Dang. I thought I could beat that but my gumbo & rice came out to $1.23. It's also 1100 calories though, so I don't feel too bad.

You are both consumer suckas. I'm not eating lunch today.

I skipped breakfast and ate my $1 lunch early. Bad idea.
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caracarn

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #260 on: August 24, 2017, 12:26:30 PM »


Wait, are you telling me that my personal value system for how to spend my money shouldn't be the sole determining factor of whether or not I am making financially prudent decisions?  That's become hearsay around these parts.  It wasn't that long ago that I had 30 people from this forum tell me to buy a $600 blender because it would radically change my life for the better.


As a quick reminder to everyone, approximately one billion human beings on planet earth currently live on less than one dollar per day.  That's a total annual income of less than what this forum recommends you spend on a fucking blender.  Screw all of you who think like that, right in the ear.  Your wasteful consumer spending is a disgrace to every moral principle humanity is supposed to embody, and I have no reservations about calling you out for it. 

I'm pretty disgusted by what this place has become.

I giggled into my ~$0.75 homemade lunch.
I hope that's your only meal of the day or that you live in a tent in the woods and have no other bills ever because at that rate you are far exceeding the $1/day Sol left us.

GuitarStv

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #261 on: August 24, 2017, 12:27:09 PM »


Wait, are you telling me that my personal value system for how to spend my money shouldn't be the sole determining factor of whether or not I am making financially prudent decisions?  That's become hearsay around these parts.  It wasn't that long ago that I had 30 people from this forum tell me to buy a $600 blender because it would radically change my life for the better.


As a quick reminder to everyone, approximately one billion human beings on planet earth currently live on less than one dollar per day.  That's a total annual income of less than what this forum recommends you spend on a fucking blender.  Screw all of you who think like that, right in the ear.  Your wasteful consumer spending is a disgrace to every moral principle humanity is supposed to embody, and I have no reservations about calling you out for it. 

I'm pretty disgusted by what this place has become.

I giggled into my ~$0.75 homemade lunch.
Dang. I thought I could beat that but my gumbo & rice came out to $1.23. It's also 1100 calories though, so I don't feel too bad.

You are both consumer suckas. I'm not eating lunch today.

I killed both my hunger and solved our ant problem simultaneously at lunch today.  Mmmm crunchy high protein.

StarBright

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #262 on: August 24, 2017, 12:28:46 PM »
Ha Kraft dinner wins again. 49c per box.

Two boxes makes three meals! 33c a meal!

Healthy is for other people. I need to FI.

Um I don't know if you want to have children some day but . . .

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/12/well/eat/the-chemicals-in-your-mac-and-cheese.html?mcubz=0&_r=0

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/07/25/new_study_shows_sperm_count_among_western_men_has_shrunk_by_half_since_the.html

might want to rethink that Mac and Cheese.

Or not . . but . . The More You Know!

caracarn

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #263 on: August 24, 2017, 12:29:35 PM »


Wait, are you telling me that my personal value system for how to spend my money shouldn't be the sole determining factor of whether or not I am making financially prudent decisions?  That's become hearsay around these parts.  It wasn't that long ago that I had 30 people from this forum tell me to buy a $600 blender because it would radically change my life for the better.


As a quick reminder to everyone, approximately one billion human beings on planet earth currently live on less than one dollar per day.  That's a total annual income of less than what this forum recommends you spend on a fucking blender.  Screw all of you who think like that, right in the ear.  Your wasteful consumer spending is a disgrace to every moral principle humanity is supposed to embody, and I have no reservations about calling you out for it. 

I'm pretty disgusted by what this place has become.

I giggled into my ~$0.75 homemade lunch.
Dang. I thought I could beat that but my gumbo & rice came out to $1.23. It's also 1100 calories though, so I don't feel too bad.

You are both consumer suckas. I'm not eating lunch today.

I killed both my hunger and solved our ant problem simultaneously at lunch today.  Mmmm crunchy high protein.
If you are talented enough to have eliminated every single ant and eliminated the ant problem so that not a single one emerges again by consuming them, you can make some real money.

Optimiser

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #264 on: August 24, 2017, 12:31:03 PM »


Wait, are you telling me that my personal value system for how to spend my money shouldn't be the sole determining factor of whether or not I am making financially prudent decisions?  That's become hearsay around these parts.  It wasn't that long ago that I had 30 people from this forum tell me to buy a $600 blender because it would radically change my life for the better.


As a quick reminder to everyone, approximately one billion human beings on planet earth currently live on less than one dollar per day.  That's a total annual income of less than what this forum recommends you spend on a fucking blender.  Screw all of you who think like that, right in the ear.  Your wasteful consumer spending is a disgrace to every moral principle humanity is supposed to embody, and I have no reservations about calling you out for it. 

I'm pretty disgusted by what this place has become.

I giggled into my ~$0.75 homemade lunch.
Dang. I thought I could beat that but my gumbo & rice came out to $1.23. It's also 1100 calories though, so I don't feel too bad.

You are both consumer suckas. I'm not eating lunch today.

I killed both my hunger and solved our ant problem simultaneously at lunch today.  Mmmm crunchy high protein.
If you are talented enough to have eliminated every single ant and eliminated the ant problem so that not a single one emerges again by consuming them, you can make some real money.
But then he would have to start bringing lunch to work again.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 12:35:24 PM by Optimiser »

caracarn

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #265 on: August 24, 2017, 12:32:15 PM »
Ha Kraft dinner wins again. 49c per box.

Two boxes makes three meals! 33c a meal!

Healthy is for other people. I need to FI.

Um I don't know if you want to have children some day but . . .

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/12/well/eat/the-chemicals-in-your-mac-and-cheese.html?mcubz=0&_r=0

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/07/25/new_study_shows_sperm_count_among_western_men_has_shrunk_by_half_since_the.html

might want to rethink that Mac and Cheese.

Or not . . but . . The More You Know!
I can say that is patently false.  I ate almost exclusively mac and cheese for years and when my wife and I were trying to get pregnant all three happened on the first try. 

Canadian Ben

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #266 on: August 24, 2017, 12:34:15 PM »
I think he's saying that he could work in de-infesting area of ants as his job. So his lunch would always be present on location where he's working!

SoundFuture

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #267 on: August 24, 2017, 12:39:01 PM »

Dang. I thought I could beat that but my gumbo & rice came out to $1.23. It's also 1100 calories though, so I don't feel too bad.

Gumbo and rice sounds good though.  Though Canadian Ben has us both beat rather soundly though.

Dabnasty

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #268 on: August 24, 2017, 12:40:34 PM »
Wait, are you telling me that my personal value system for how to spend my money shouldn't be the sole determining factor of whether or not I am making financially prudent decisions?  That's become hearsay around these parts.  It wasn't that long ago that I had 30 people from this forum tell me to buy a $600 blender because it would radically change my life for the better.

As a quick reminder to everyone, approximately one billion human beings on planet earth currently live on less than one dollar per day.  That's a total annual income of less than what this forum recommends you spend on a fucking blender.  Screw all of you who think like that, right in the ear.  Your wasteful consumer spending is a disgrace to every moral principle humanity is supposed to embody, and I have no reservations about calling you out for it. 

I'm pretty disgusted by what this place has become.
I was one of the people who argued that in theory an expensive blender could be worthwhile if it somehow delivered a value greater than the cost. But I also pointed out that a $600 ($800/$400 whatever) blender is extremely unlikely to actually provide that value. Chances are someone is trying to make justifications for their bad decisions. The only scenario I can imagine would be if the durability exceeded that of a $50 blender by 12 times AND you couldn't buy it used. And of course consider the opportunity cost of the upfront purchase vs. $50 every however often it dies...

Point is, I sometimes engage in these analytical conversations because I enjoy considering all of the possibilities and want to be open minded. However, I can see where other less dedicated frugalites might read this as justification for foolish purchases even though they don't meet the specific criteria.

And regarding the forums getting soft, I agree that sometimes it goes too far but I also agree that being more strict will scare some people off.


shelivesthedream

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #269 on: August 24, 2017, 12:47:36 PM »
You mean the stickied thread in the "Forum information & FAQs" section of the forum?

Just like that, but with stupid questions. "Isn't it actually a great deal to lease a car? There's no maintenance!" "Isn't it impossible to mow your own lawn?" "I earn $100/hr. Isn't it a better use of my time to pay someone minimum wage to cook my meals and deliver them?"

FINate

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #270 on: August 24, 2017, 01:00:15 PM »
Healthy is for other people. I need to FI.

You may get away with this when you're 27 (according to your profile) but watch out, health issues can creep up on you and middle age is just around the corner .

Optimiser

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #271 on: August 24, 2017, 01:06:42 PM »
You mean the stickied thread in the "Forum information & FAQs" section of the forum?

Just like that, but with stupid questions. "Isn't it actually a great deal to lease a car? There's no maintenance!" "Isn't it impossible to mow your own lawn?" "I earn $100/hr. Isn't it a better use of my time to pay someone minimum wage to cook my meals and deliver them?"

I'd be happy to point people in the direction of such a sticky if someone were willing to create one. Are you volunteering?

Dabnasty

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #272 on: August 24, 2017, 01:10:03 PM »
I guess we have to assume some people don't read the blog before asking questions in the forum?

Oh bother

dycker1978

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #273 on: August 24, 2017, 01:13:25 PM »
I guess we have to assume some people don't read the blog before asking questions in the forum?

Oh bother

Its not even the questions.  I get someone new asking about dollar cost averaging, etc.  But the responses are what is getting me.

It is not ok to buy a brand new car unless you are a multi millionaire. 

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #274 on: August 24, 2017, 01:14:12 PM »
Quote
I can say that is patently false.  I ate almost exclusively mac and cheese for years and when my wife and I were trying to get pregnant all three happened on the first try. 

Sperm counts are honestly overrated. The article even mentions this:
Quote
The good news is that 47.1 million sperm per milliliter is still pretty healthy. A person’s sperm count is considered “low” when he has fewer than 15 million sperm per milliliter of semen, and plenty of men with low sperm counts are still able to conceive children. 

Male infertility is poorly studied and poorly understood, though. Doing some quick reading right now: in more than 50% of male infertility cases, the cause is unknown.

PoutineLover

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #275 on: August 24, 2017, 01:22:25 PM »
Quote
I can say that is patently false.  I ate almost exclusively mac and cheese for years and when my wife and I were trying to get pregnant all three happened on the first try. 

Sperm counts are honestly overrated. The article even mentions this:
Quote
The good news is that 47.1 million sperm per milliliter is still pretty healthy. A person’s sperm count is considered “low” when he has fewer than 15 million sperm per milliliter of semen, and plenty of men with low sperm counts are still able to conceive children. 

Male infertility is poorly studied and poorly understood, though. Doing some quick reading right now: in more than 50% of male infertility cases, the cause is unknown.
Username checks out

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #276 on: August 24, 2017, 01:26:13 PM »
Quote
I can say that is patently false.  I ate almost exclusively mac and cheese for years and when my wife and I were trying to get pregnant all three happened on the first try. 

Sperm counts are honestly overrated. The article even mentions this:
Quote
The good news is that 47.1 million sperm per milliliter is still pretty healthy. A person’s sperm count is considered “low” when he has fewer than 15 million sperm per milliliter of semen, and plenty of men with low sperm counts are still able to conceive children. 

Male infertility is poorly studied and poorly understood, though. Doing some quick reading right now: in more than 50% of male infertility cases, the cause is unknown.
Username checks out

Roflmao, well I can appreciate the joke.

Dabnasty

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #277 on: August 24, 2017, 01:27:23 PM »
I guess we have to assume some people don't read the blog before asking questions in the forum?

Oh bother

Its not even the questions.  I get someone new asking about dollar cost averaging, etc.  But the responses are what is getting me.

It is not ok to buy a brand new car unless you are a multi millionaire.
Good point. Bad questions can be directed to articles and past threads. Bad responses make people feel justified in their bad decisions.

Dicey

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #278 on: August 24, 2017, 01:27:34 PM »
A woman started a "gauntlet" thread about trying to see if she could lay off buying clothes for one month. I suggested she might have a shopping addiction and was scolded by a high-post-count regular (who often wants green lights for her own shopping addiction)
Whoa, I think I missed that one. I totally would have backed you up on that one, calimom!
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shelivesthedream

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #279 on: August 24, 2017, 02:21:16 PM »
You mean the stickied thread in the "Forum information & FAQs" section of the forum?

Just like that, but with stupid questions. "Isn't it actually a great deal to lease a car? There's no maintenance!" "Isn't it impossible to mow your own lawn?" "I earn $100/hr. Isn't it a better use of my time to pay someone minimum wage to cook my meals and deliver them?"

I'd be happy to point people in the direction of such a sticky if someone were willing to create one. Are you volunteering?

I'd probably be willing to take on creating answers to maybe the dozen most common stupid questions if other people could collate the questions. I've got a bit of time on my hands coming up, and I am pretty good at collating information.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #280 on: August 24, 2017, 02:29:20 PM »
Lentils. Let's get back on track with this conversation, folks.

caracarn

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #281 on: August 24, 2017, 02:41:37 PM »
Lentils. Let's get back on track with this conversation, folks.
What!?  Are you saying the the MMM community makes soft lentils?

calimom

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #282 on: August 24, 2017, 03:03:14 PM »
A woman started a "gauntlet" thread about trying to see if she could lay off buying clothes for one month. I suggested she might have a shopping addiction and was scolded by a high-post-count regular (who often wants green lights for her own shopping addiction)
Whoa, I think I missed that one. I totally would have backed you up on that one, calimom!

Thanks, Dicey! I'm pretty sure most of us can (and do) go a year or more without buying clothes. Ya know, shop the closet and all that. Or do a clothing exchange where everyone throws a bunch of stuff on the floor and then you grab what you want. For free.

And can we add Olive Garden to the no-no list along with Applebee's? People shouldn't eat there, either. It's gross!

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #283 on: August 24, 2017, 03:19:08 PM »
Just stumbled onto this thread today.

As one who is coming upon two years in the MMM community, what I have noticed and I think was summed up well by RetiredAt63 is a shift as we get older.  I'm one of the old people here (though not terrible at 47) sitting on the long tail.  It seems to me that the vast, vast majority of regular contributors are in their 20s and 30s.  But I am just entering the phase of life that I'd prefer not to, but that is giving me a hearty middle finger and telling me very clearly "too bad sucker, you're here" and that is what makes it hard to fit the MMM mold.  I used to have no problem doing all my yard work, going to the home improvement store, buying 120 bags of mulch and doing it all in one day over my whole yard.  Now I've spent the better part of two months getting 80 bags of top soil into my backyard because all I have energy for is 20 bags at a time and that takes me two hours and then my knees hurt and I have learned if I don't stop I'll be unable to do the next batch next weekend, but will instead need to wait a month before my back or knees, of muscles can deal with it.  It sucks.  I also have this new problem of getting effected or just having poison ivy new in my yard.  So now I'm fighting with the prospect of can I even work in my yard at all without having a three week rash that is irritating as all get out.  So now I contemplate is it worth the cost to pay someone to come trim my tree, because all I did for two hours last Sunday was trim a tree and then I break out in a freakin' rash even though I swear nothing was around.  Tried to deal with it at home but after a week the rash looked so bad my wife said I looked like a leper and I finally gave in and went to urgent care to get the stupid steroids I had to do last time when it was terrible.  I'd love tell my body to not do these things, but even with a strong MMM desire, there are just some things we cannot overcome.  So I think this ends up being a bit of the softening that seems to be the point of this thread.  I think as more people join the community that are older, more kids and those challenges we definitely bring the "we do the best we can to maximize but there are limits" that Ra63 pointed out.
This is the reason to save like mad and get to FIRE when you're young. It's so much easier when your body will do whatever you wish. As we get older, it's damn nice to have enough money that to DIY or not to DIY isn't a budget-breaking dilemma.


Yes, but since I've yet to find someone who can teach me how to build or can sell me a time machine, I believe it's one of the most valid reasons for the perception that the community has gone soft.   It's not totally helpful to indicate it's great to save early, when for those of us who are older, that time has passed.  What am I supposed to do with that suggestion in my effort to "harden up" the community?

Us oldsters can't bike as far, walk as far, lift as much.  As you indicated, we're past the point when our bodies will do whatever we wish (although as a kid I always wanted to fly, and no matter how much I wished, I never found a way to make it do that).  So now we spend, and get face punched because we're spending, which created the "soft" perception.  I think perhaps adding that understanding into Mustachianism (and this may be part of what we are seeing with MMM as well) might help to alleviate some of the feeling that the hardcore pushing has gone away.  I think as we age, it naturally has to back off.  Either that or one of the marks of a Mustachian will be early death from heart attack after over exerting ourselves to save $20.
Dude you're 47 not 87! You are in the prime of life and there's no reason you shouldn't be able to do most everything physical at your age (assuming no disability, illness or injuries). Lots of people on this forum didn't even discover fitness until their 40s or 50s and are now stronger, faster, more flexible, better endurance and healthier then many young 'uns half their age. Don't use age an excuse.

Now having said that, I don't think the OP was talking about physical softness but mental softness on the forums now - and I agree it has changed a lot. However I attribute that to younger higher earning people. They are saving 50% of their incomes but have so much left over that dropping $800 for a blender and $500 for a toaster so they can make avocado toast is no biggie. Throw in a shiny new car too because "I can afford it and Im worth it". They are still in love with their jobs and have no interest in RE and so can put off FI. They haven't experienced the strong desire for freedom (financial and physical) that comes for most people once in their upper 30s or 40s. They haven't experienced any big economic downturns where they might they might lose theur jobs or have to do things they hate and wish they had saved more and could retire younger if they wanted rather than having a shiny new SUV.  Or at least had more options if they had saved more money. You rarely see people here who make a median income of $50k who save 50% wondering if they should buy new cars or $800 blenders, especially if they are over 35 and saw what that 2007 crash did to many people. But you do see that with an under 30 year old who makes $200k and has only invested in the last 5 - 10 years.  That income will only go up. That job will always be there and they'll always love it. Those current investments will always grow and so they can live a luxurious lifestyle and have all the things.

TL:DR: I see a shift here from a more ERE crowd who were lower earners but saved a ton in order to reachbFI and possibly RE asap to a younger higher earning crowd that saves a lot but also spends a lot.

Now 'scuze me as my maid has finished whipping up my avocado toast lunch in my $800 blender I bought to match my $500 toaster to match the curtains in my mcmansion. Maybe I'll eat it in my new BMW SUV. Nah... don't want to mess up the leather seats ;-)
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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #284 on: August 24, 2017, 03:36:50 PM »
Now 'scuze me as my maid has finished whipping up my avocado toast lunch in my $800 blender I bought to match my $500 toaster to match the curtains in my mcmansion. Maybe I'll eat it in my new BMW SUV. Nah... don't want to mess up the leather seats ;-)

Sounds perfectly reasonable as long as this makes you happy and aligns with your values. You work hard and you deserve it.

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #285 on: August 24, 2017, 03:40:37 PM »
Now 'scuze me as my maid has finished whipping up my avocado toast lunch in my $800 blender I bought to match my $500 toaster to match the curtains in my mcmansion. Maybe I'll eat it in my new BMW SUV. Nah... don't want to mess up the leather seats ;-)

Sounds perfectly reasonable as long as this makes you happy and aligns with your values. You work hard and you deserve it.
Hey, I have my concubine make avocado toast using a $100 blender and $200 toaster in my 1900sqft house I share with a cat, and *my* BMW SUV with leather seats is 5 years old.  So it doesn't have to be too expensive.  And totally worth it.

calimom

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #286 on: August 24, 2017, 03:44:52 PM »
Now 'scuze me as my maid has finished whipping up my avocado toast lunch in my $800 blender I bought to match my $500 toaster to match the curtains in my mcmansion. Maybe I'll eat it in my new BMW SUV. Nah... don't want to mess up the leather seats ;-)

Sounds perfectly reasonable as long as this makes you happy and aligns with your values. You work hard and you deserve it.
Hey, I have my concubine make avocado toast using a $100 blender and $200 toaster in my 1900sqft house I share with a cat, and *my* BMW SUV with leather seats is 5 years old.  So it doesn't have to be too expensive.  And totally worth it.

Why not just make avocado toast on the heated leather seats of the Beamer while you mindless drive around? Optimize, people, optimize?

dycker1978

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #287 on: August 24, 2017, 03:47:22 PM »
Now 'scuze me as my maid has finished whipping up my avocado toast lunch in my $800 blender I bought to match my $500 toaster to match the curtains in my mcmansion. Maybe I'll eat it in my new BMW SUV. Nah... don't want to mess up the leather seats ;-)

Sounds perfectly reasonable as long as this makes you happy and aligns with your values. You work hard and you deserve it.
Hey, I have my concubine make avocado toast using a $100 blender and $200 toaster in my 1900sqft house I share with a cat, and *my* BMW SUV with leather seats is 5 years old.  So it doesn't have to be too expensive.  And totally worth it.

Why not just make avocado toast on the heated leather seats of the Beamer while you mindless drive around? Optimize, people, optimize?

If you get black seats and live in the south it will speed up the process...

spartana

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #288 on: August 24, 2017, 03:58:15 PM »
Now 'scuze me as my maid has finished whipping up my avocado toast lunch in my $800 blender I bought to match my $500 toaster to match the curtains in my mcmansion. Maybe I'll eat it in my new BMW SUV. Nah... don't want to mess up the leather seats ;-)

Sounds perfectly reasonable as long as this makes you happy and aligns with your values. You work hard and you deserve it.
Hey, I have my concubine make avocado toast using a $100 blender and $200 toaster in my 1900sqft house I share with a cat, and *my* BMW SUV with leather seats is 5 years old.  So it doesn't have to be too expensive.  And totally worth it.

Why not just make avocado toast on the heated leather seats of the Beamer while you mindless drive around? Optimize, people, optimize?
That's what I suggested to my chauffer but he said that's the cooks job.
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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone sof
« Reply #289 on: August 25, 2017, 03:22:14 AM »
I killed both my hunger and solved our ant problem simultaneously at lunch today.  Mmmm crunchy high protein.

Ants are high in formic acid and not really edible to humans. I have however grabbed a flying termite and popped in my mouth before, and lived to post about. Problem is, I don't want to dig them out of the woodwork whenever I'm hungry, so I only got them occasionally when they swarm.

Glad the tread is back on track, I too have seen the threads about blenders and cars. Yet I agree with the sentiment of looking for alternatives and treading gently on the newer crowd--facepunching is the part where I never aligned with full-on mustachianism.

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #290 on: August 25, 2017, 03:39:06 AM »
I always try to be kind and not dole out facepunches right, left and centre, and I do think that everyone not in debt should get a free pass on one thing. My husband buys a stupid amount of books that he could totally get from the library. Mine used to be clothes but I think it might now be food/the garden (intertwined because I grow many vegetables, but we also buy fancypants cheeses etc). But we don't spend unnecessary amounts of money on everything. I pack lunches. I cycle again now. We buy rice and dried beans. We're not big on travel. Also, I bought a huge bag of topsoil and moved the whole damn lot through to the back myself. I grow things from seed mostly rather than plug plants. My garden is not an unending stream of leaking money, I just recognise it as a want, not a need. So we've picked what really makes us happy and spend on that, and are frugal everywhere else.

If blending things is your one extravagance and you don't have any debt and have an emergency fund, whatever. Buy the multiple-hundred-dollar blender. But that is your one extravagance. Don't come crying about how you NEED a pumped-up SUV for safeteeeey, or a huge wardrobe for wooooork, or takeaway for nutritiiiiiooon. No, you picked blending things. Go and cycle, thrift shop and soak your beans.

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #291 on: August 25, 2017, 05:15:16 AM »
I always try to be kind and not dole out facepunches right, left and centre, and I do think that everyone not in debt should get a free pass on one thing.
...
If blending things is your one extravagance and you don't have any debt and have an emergency fund, whatever. Buy the multiple-hundred-dollar blender. But that is your one extravagance. Don't come crying about how you NEED a pumped-up SUV for safeteeeey, or a huge wardrobe for wooooork, or takeaway for nutritiiiiiooon. No, you picked blending things. Go and cycle, thrift shop and soak your beans.

I'm even softer than you SLTD. I agree that once you are out of debt you get one thing, and would add that when you are FI you can get two things. If you are Warren Buffett, I might even permit three things, but one of them had better benefitting a whole lotta people in the wider world (NB Elon Musk, Mars doesn't count).

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #292 on: August 25, 2017, 08:24:22 AM »
Quote
If blending things is your one extravagance and you don't have any debt and have an emergency fund, whatever. Buy the multiple-hundred-dollar blender. But that is your one extravagance. Don't come crying about how you NEED a pumped-up SUV for safeteeeey, or a huge wardrobe for wooooork, or takeaway for nutritiiiiiooon. No, you picked blending things. Go and cycle, thrift shop and soak your beans.
I see your point but buying that blender is still unmustachian, IMO. It is not environmentally responsible. Buying a used blender reduces fossil fuels that were used to make all the plastic and glass of a new blender. It also prevents the used blender from ending up in a landfill.

Dicey

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #293 on: August 25, 2017, 09:04:17 AM »
Quote
If blending things is your one extravagance and you don't have any debt and have an emergency fund, whatever. Buy the multiple-hundred-dollar blender. But that is your one extravagance. Don't come crying about how you NEED a pumped-up SUV for safeteeeey, or a huge wardrobe for wooooork, or takeaway for nutritiiiiiooon. No, you picked blending things. Go and cycle, thrift shop and soak your beans.
I see your point but buying that blender is still unmustachian, IMO. It is not environmentally responsible. Buying a used blender reduces fossil fuels that were used to make all the plastic and glass of a new blender. It also prevents the used blender from ending up in a landfill.
I bought a used blender for $15 at a virtual garage sale. It's the same glass jar as my current blender, which I am diligently attempting to burn out. Wait! What? You say I didn't need that $15 blender because the first one (a gift, twenty years ago from an ex-bf*) still works? Huh? How does this mustachian thing work again? I'm so confused!

* Ex bf, because, blender for Christmas and no, I didn't ask for one.
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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #294 on: August 25, 2017, 09:07:55 AM »
Quote
If blending things is your one extravagance and you don't have any debt and have an emergency fund, whatever. Buy the multiple-hundred-dollar blender. But that is your one extravagance. Don't come crying about how you NEED a pumped-up SUV for safeteeeey, or a huge wardrobe for wooooork, or takeaway for nutritiiiiiooon. No, you picked blending things. Go and cycle, thrift shop and soak your beans.
I see your point but buying that blender is still unmustachian, IMO. It is not environmentally responsible. Buying a used blender reduces fossil fuels that were used to make all the plastic and glass of a new blender. It also prevents the used blender from ending up in a landfill.

I just went on my local Kijiji and there are no second hand Vitamix blenders.  BUT, there are some very nice blenders for sale because the owners just got a Vitamix.  ;-)
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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #295 on: August 25, 2017, 09:37:34 AM »
Off topic, but seriously how do you guys find usable used blenders (aka how do you get a blender to last more than a couple of uses)? My household refuses to buy another blender as we burn out the motors every single time. We even bought a slightly more expensive blender and burned that one out as well (well, we did get the cost per use down into the cents instead of dollars but still). Food processors on the other hand can blend without burning up so they are our "blenders" of choice.

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #296 on: August 25, 2017, 09:48:22 AM »
Off topic, but seriously how do you guys find usable used blenders (aka how do you get a blender to last more than a couple of uses)? My household refuses to buy another blender as we burn out the motors every single time. We even bought a slightly more expensive blender and burned that one out as well (well, we did get the cost per use down into the cents instead of dollars but still). Food processors on the other hand can blend without burning up so they are our "blenders" of choice.

What are you doing with your blender that it doesn't last more than a couple uses?  I've used a 1970's Osterizer for literally thousands of smoothies and crushed ice party drinks.  Just throw the stuff in, pulse it until smooth.  The actual physical buttons on it are dying now, but the motor is still going strong.

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #297 on: August 25, 2017, 10:02:47 AM »
Quote
If blending things is your one extravagance and you don't have any debt and have an emergency fund, whatever. Buy the multiple-hundred-dollar blender. But that is your one extravagance. Don't come crying about how you NEED a pumped-up SUV for safeteeeey, or a huge wardrobe for wooooork, or takeaway for nutritiiiiiooon. No, you picked blending things. Go and cycle, thrift shop and soak your beans.
I see your point but buying that blender is still unmustachian, IMO. It is not environmentally responsible. Buying a used blender reduces fossil fuels that were used to make all the plastic and glass of a new blender. It also prevents the used blender from ending up in a landfill.

I mean yeah, I agree, it's not Mustachian. But I'm saying that people get a free pass to do one unmustachian thing without getting a facepunch. I absolutely get that Mustachianism is about the planet as well as money, but you're allowed to buy one new thing without having your MMM card revoked - you're just not allowed to do it for everything. Maybe they would pick blending things with their gold-plated $800 blender as their one unmustachian extravagance. (Imho, some people on this forum travel in a horrendously unmustachian (I.e. Environmental death) way, but if everything else they do is Mustachian, I'm not going to haul them over the coals for that - despite the fact that my husband and I just decided to holiday in Bath rather than Rome because we didn't want to fly and couldn't make the trains work out for us this time. #justsaying)

ETA: Actually, you know what my real unmustachian, unfrugal, unenvironmental extravagance is? Copious amounts of hot water. You would have to pry my piping hot baths (not even a shower!!!) out of my cold dead hands. A five minute cold shower would get me just as clean as an hour-long bath, and I can read on the sofa just as well as in the bath. But my nightmare apocalypse scenario would be having to choose between hot baths and toilet paper. That's the level I regard this abundant wasteful extravagance of water and electricity.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 10:06:39 AM by shelivesthedream »

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #298 on: August 25, 2017, 10:21:27 AM »
I don't disagree that one or two luxuries is probably fine if you're debt free or FI. But even if everyone gets just one unmustachian luxury and then comes on the forum to justify it you end up with one thread justifying blenders, another fancypants mattresses, another new SUVs etc.  It creates the appearance that mustachians consider all of those things as valid purchases, even if no individual mustachian indulges in more than one frivolous luxury. This might be some of the reason that it seems the forum seems to have gone soft. Then you get new users coming on here and coming to the conclusion that they are mustachian too even though they have expensive coffee/food/wine/car/blender/watch/travel habits because those things bring them value, and they don't mind working for a few extra years to pay for them.

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Re: Weird fourm coversations - has the community gone soft?
« Reply #299 on: August 25, 2017, 10:22:50 AM »
You might get one or two luxuries . . . but you should acknowledge that they're luxuries and feel shame for indulging.  SHAME!