Author Topic: Weight Loss Voodoo  (Read 5775 times)

kaizen soze

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2018, 06:03:22 PM »
Go on a thru hike, eat as much as you want.

Obviously not everyone can do this. But there were some weight loss takeaways. First off, hunger is ok. You can go to sleep hungry and be just fine the next day. I used to think hunger meant it was imperative that I eat. But it mostly means I'm in a calorie deficit, which is what you want.  Hunger means you're doing it right. Just don't overdo it. You want to be a little hungry, not a lot hungry. Second, limiting the available food is a good way to lose weight. You hit the trailhead with X food and you have no options to get more for the next four days. But anything in your pack will be eaten. So just don't keep extra food in your house. It's ok to have extra staples because no one ever got fat because they were too tempted to cook up a pot of rice at midnight. But don't keep extra prepared foods in your house. Whatever is your kryptonite, get rid of it already. Third, a small snack can cut hunger pangs before bed time. I might feel like eating a pan of brownies in the evening, but half an orange makes me feel sufficiently satisfied before I go to bed.

okits

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2018, 09:40:17 PM »
@Roadrunner53 - what is your starting point?

I am losing a little weight just by eliminating 80-90% of the desserts, junk food, and alcohol from my diet.  If you have that kind of low-hanging fruit within reach, try that and see what it does for you.

Barbaebigode

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2018, 06:20:34 AM »
I have a very structured meal routine. I always eat more or less at the same time, have breakfast in the same bowl, pack my lunch in the same food container, etc. That way if I want to lose/gain weight It's easy to control how much food I'm consuming. But that also means that I usually don't snack between meals, nor have cheat days and don't take part in the eating part of office parties.

Just as an observation, people more often than not don't realise how easy it is to waste a week of calorific deficit with just a few bad joices.

mjb

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2018, 07:59:56 AM »
Potato diet: https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/health/diet-nutrition/news/a39697/penn-jillette-weight-loss-potato-diet/

This sounds incredibly fun!

Unfortunately,
Quote
Despite the crazy restrictions, Jillette stuck to it, losing 75 pounds in just 83 days without exercising

As others have noted, rapid weight loss like this is actually not a good thing.  Nearly everyone who does a "crash diet" gains all the weight they lost back.

To clarify this a bit: the point of a temporarily restricted diet (from a whole foods/plant-based doctor's point-of-view) is to fix bad habits and change your relationship with food -- the weight loss is a side effect. Once you've reset your behavior and taste buds, the plan is to bring back in a wider variety of health-promoting plant foods.

Dr. John McDougall talks about this here: https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2006nl/june/marys.htm

GuitarStv

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2018, 08:10:40 AM »
Go on a thru hike, eat as much as you want.

Obviously not everyone can do this. But there were some weight loss takeaways. First off, hunger is ok. You can go to sleep hungry and be just fine the next day. I used to think hunger meant it was imperative that I eat. But it mostly means I'm in a calorie deficit, which is what you want.  Hunger means you're doing it right. Just don't overdo it. You want to be a little hungry, not a lot hungry. Second, limiting the available food is a good way to lose weight. You hit the trailhead with X food and you have no options to get more for the next four days. But anything in your pack will be eaten. So just don't keep extra food in your house. It's ok to have extra staples because no one ever got fat because they were too tempted to cook up a pot of rice at midnight. But don't keep extra prepared foods in your house. Whatever is your kryptonite, get rid of it already. Third, a small snack can cut hunger pangs before bed time. I might feel like eating a pan of brownies in the evening, but half an orange makes me feel sufficiently satisfied before I go to bed.

+1

Any kind of distance exercise is good for losing weight.  I did an 85 km bike ride two Saturdays ago, and a 110 km ride last Saturday.  I had a big pancake breakfast before the first and brought four large bananas to eat on the way . . . and then ate a large pizza later that evening.  I had a big breakfast of oatmeal, peanut butter, and chocolate chips before the second, and brought 12 large dates, a bottle of Gatorade, and three bananas . . . and then ate two huge plates of fish and chips when I got back.  I'm down 5 lbs over the past two weeks, with no other change to my regular exercise habits/diet.

Vive le carbs and exercise.  :P
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OccamsPhaco

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2018, 08:11:10 AM »
I have a very structured meal routine. I always eat more or less at the same time, have breakfast in the same bowl, pack my lunch in the same food container, etc. That way if I want to lose/gain weight It's easy to control how much food I'm consuming. But that also means that I usually don't snack between meals, nor have cheat days and don't take part in the eating part of office parties.

Just as an observation, people more often than not don't realise how easy it is to waste a week of calorific deficit with just a few bad joices.

I've long maintained that if I worked 7 days a week, I'd be in absolutely amazing shape. I can typically eat perfectly for five working days and then blow it on the weekend because I don't have that structure, and left to my own devices I'll make some bad moves. So come Monday morning, it's time to play catch up again.

I suppose I'll need an entirely different mindset as I scale back work days in the future and eventually don't have any work days at all.

NorthernBlitz

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2018, 08:49:06 AM »
So do any of you have real weight loss techniques to help weight loss?

There are so many claims that:

Apple Cider Vinegar helps burn fat
Coconut oil helps weight loss
Green Tea helps weight loss
Olive oil helps weight loss
Metamucil helps weight loss
Over the counter weight loss pills help weight loss
The Keto diet
High fat diet
Low fat diet
Low carb diet
Nutrisystem
Jenny Craig
Weight Watchers
There are a thousand books on weight loss! Does anything really work besides starvation?

I lost maybe 40 lbs doing Tim Ferriss's slow carb diet (from 4 hour body). But, then I stopped eating that way and gained most of it back over 5 years or so.

I currently have been using the sauna 5 days a week. I don't think it's changing my weight much, but it seems to be lowering my blood pressure.

Started doing this after learning about benefits of longevity re: sauna from Dr. Rhonda Patrick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKBsh7YTXQ

Not sure how much it will end up helping, but the reported reduction in all cause mortality was pretty significant in the study she references (published in JAMA I think?)

Roadrunner53

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2018, 08:56:03 AM »
Is green tea voodoo or does it help weight loss?

GuitarStv

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2018, 09:06:15 AM »
Is green tea voodoo or does it help weight loss?

Caffeine is a stimulant, and as such helps to increase your metabolism.
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Samuel

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2018, 09:34:28 AM »
First off, hunger is ok. You can go to sleep hungry and be just fine the next day. I used to think hunger meant it was imperative that I eat. But it mostly means I'm in a calorie deficit, which is what you want.  Hunger means you're doing it right. Just don't overdo it. You want to be a little hungry, not a lot hungry.

Yep, learning that being hungry isn't a crisis has been huge for me. This was a fairly recent discovery, found via playing around with intermittent fasting.

Resetting expectations around when I need and how much food constitutes a reasonable portion has been all I've needed to do to drop about 10 pounds and keep it off (not looking to lose any more).

I don't think I could survive on any diet that cuts out too many specific foods, I love variety too much. Portion control and avoiding unconscious or obligatory eating is the key for me.

I exercise a good amount for mental health and because I feel better overall when I do, but weight control happens on the plate.

Dabnasty

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2018, 09:53:48 AM »
Is green tea voodoo or does it help weight loss?

Caffeine is a stimulant, and as such helps to increase your metabolism.

I've read suggestions that caffeine aids in weight loss due to increased metabolism and also that it causes weight gain due to increased stress hormones but from the evidence I've seen it doesn't have any major effects on it's own. Maybe a slight and inconsistent increase to metabolism is more plausible.

The real effect may come from how it influences your behavior which of course will vary greatly person to person, by how much you use, and by how you use it. If some morning caffeine gets you to the gym or helps regulate sleep pattern then it will probably help with weight loss. If it increases your hunger or disrupts your ability to fall asleep it could do quite the opposite.

In regards to green tea specifically:

"Green tea preparations appear to induce a small, statistically non-significant weight loss in overweight or obese adults. Because the amount of weight loss is small, it is not likely to be clinically important. Green tea had no significant effect on the maintenance of weight loss."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233909068_Green_tea_for_weight_loss_and_weight_maintenance_in_overweight_or_obese_adults


Samuel

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2018, 10:03:20 AM »
Is green tea voodoo or does it help weight loss?

If it displaces high calorie beverages, sure.

brute

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #62 on: May 15, 2018, 10:14:24 AM »
I dropped 150 pounds in a year on keto, so don't tell me it doesn't work. I consumed, on average, 3500 calories a day. During that time, I eliminated my need for blood pressure meds, cholesterol meds, diabetes meds, GERD meds, anxiety meds and allergy meds. Keto is a godsend for those who are insulin resistant. If you aren't insulin resistant, then even I don't see much need for it.

It comes down to what is easiest to follow long term. If one method lets you self regulate without constant calorie counting and gives good results, thats the way to go. No plan will help if you force too many calories down yourself, but some make it easier than others to feel full and satisfied. Nothing is true.

Saturated fat is not the enemy
Carbohydrates aren't either
Too much protein isn't going to hurt you unless you have a very rare genetic disorder
Exercise drastically increases your ability to lose fat if you use it correctly, but more importantly, it improves your cardiovascular system so you can live long enough to enjoy it
Lifting weights won't make women bulky
It's damn hard to get bulky (and stay lean) as a man without drugs
If you think people who binge and overeat are just weak, you aren't one of those with a food addiction. Give them some slack without supporting the behavior
Skinny people aren't necessarily healthier than (moderately) overweight people. But don't kid yourself, morbid obesity is a death sentence.
Get strong. It's useful.
The first 5-10 pounds coming off is water and poop. Don't be disappointed when it slows down
Your weight gain on vacation is the reverse. 80% isn't fat, so get back on plan and get rid of it
Your body loves homeostasis. Give it a year at your goal weight before you consider drastically changing anything
Get more protein that the FDA recommends. That number is the minimum, not the optimum.


So there's my soap box. I've been competing in strongman and powerlifting for years now. Using Keto, I'm able to keep my cholesterol and blood sugar right where they need to be while fueling my performance.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #63 on: May 15, 2018, 10:31:18 AM »
I dropped 150 pounds in a year on keto, so don't tell me it doesn't work.

One case does not equate to universal success.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089

Of the available science and data we have, the keto diet does help reduce the number of seizures, if you experience those.  And yes, there is a short-term weight loss component that many experience as well as the lowering of blood sugar level as you mention.

But in the long-term, the data available shows that it's not very effective with keep weight off.

I'm not sure if people here are doing the "carnivore" diet - essentially keto on steroids, it looks to me.  But these people eat basically no carbs, no vegetables, no fruit.  The most prominent is Dr. Shawn Baker (his license has been revoked).

https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/8be58q/did_joe_ever_acknowledge_shawn_bakers_shitish/

He has has diabetes, less testosterone than a woman, dangerous levels of cholesterol, and multiple vitamin deficiencies.  He has been practicing his "carnivore" diet for a long time.
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DarkandStormy

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #64 on: May 15, 2018, 10:35:46 AM »
So there's my soap box. I've been competing in strongman and powerlifting for years now. Using Keto, I'm able to keep my cholesterol and blood sugar right where they need to be while fueling my performance.

Just to go off what someone said above about no one diet being the magic fix for the entire population - https://www.mensjournal.com/food-drink/vegan-diet-american-olympic-weightlifter-kendrick-farris/

The strongest weightlifter in America in 2016 was a plant-based athlete.
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brute

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #65 on: May 15, 2018, 10:40:42 AM »
I dropped 150 pounds in a year on keto, so don't tell me it doesn't work.

One case does not equate to universal success.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089

Of the available science and data we have, the keto diet does help reduce the number of seizures, if you experience those.  And yes, there is a short-term weight loss component that many experience as well as the lowering of blood sugar level as you mention.

But in the long-term, the data available shows that it's not very effective with keep weight off.

I'm not sure if people here are doing the "carnivore" diet - essentially keto on steroids, it looks to me.  But these people eat basically no carbs, no vegetables, no fruit.  The most prominent is Dr. Shawn Baker (his license has been revoked).

https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/8be58q/did_joe_ever_acknowledge_shawn_bakers_shitish/

He has has diabetes, less testosterone than a woman, dangerous levels of cholesterol, and multiple vitamin deficiencies.  He has been practicing his "carnivore" diet for a long time.

You seem like you must be a researcher in the arena. Carnivore diet is obviously foolish. No argument on that from me. We're talking two different diets, no reason to conflate them.

Our friend who is following a different diet than I mentioned certainly seems to have some health issues. What has been done to show that the diet caused this and not some other condition or that his abuse of anabolic androgenic steriods isn't to blame for his low T, given that he likely damaged his HPTA with idiotic cycles?

Again, Keto,not carnivore. Humans are omnivores. Even what we consider true carnivores eat leaves/grass at times. We're being intelligent with our food consumption, not dogmatic.


mm1970

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #66 on: May 15, 2018, 10:43:42 AM »
Go on a thru hike, eat as much as you want.

Obviously not everyone can do this. But there were some weight loss takeaways. First off, hunger is ok. You can go to sleep hungry and be just fine the next day. I used to think hunger meant it was imperative that I eat. But it mostly means I'm in a calorie deficit, which is what you want.  Hunger means you're doing it right. Just don't overdo it. You want to be a little hungry, not a lot hungry. Second, limiting the available food is a good way to lose weight. You hit the trailhead with X food and you have no options to get more for the next four days. But anything in your pack will be eaten. So just don't keep extra food in your house. It's ok to have extra staples because no one ever got fat because they were too tempted to cook up a pot of rice at midnight. But don't keep extra prepared foods in your house. Whatever is your kryptonite, get rid of it already. Third, a small snack can cut hunger pangs before bed time. I might feel like eating a pan of brownies in the evening, but half an orange makes me feel sufficiently satisfied before I go to bed.

+1

Any kind of distance exercise is good for losing weight.  I did an 85 km bike ride two Saturdays ago, and a 110 km ride last Saturday.  I had a big pancake breakfast before the first and brought four large bananas to eat on the way . . . and then ate a large pizza later that evening.  I had a big breakfast of oatmeal, peanut butter, and chocolate chips before the second, and brought 12 large dates, a bottle of Gatorade, and three bananas . . . and then ate two huge plates of fish and chips when I got back.  I'm down 5 lbs over the past two weeks, with no other change to my regular exercise habits/diet.

Vive le carbs and exercise.  :P
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MarciaB

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #67 on: May 15, 2018, 11:39:31 AM »
I'll put in another high-five for intensity bursts. HIIT is the actual term. But it's simply a matter of getting your heart rate up high for a spell (10 seconds, 10 minutes, whatever) and then back down. Then up, then down...etc. I use a Tabata app on my phone outside on the grass and it's great.

Because for me, what that intensity seems to do is turn up the "I'm full!" signal in my brain to a high volume. When I am not really exercising much that signal is really faint and can be easily ignored. But exercise, and in particular the intense bursts, really helps with stopping eating when my body's had enough (because the signal is persistent and loud).

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DarkandStormy

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2018, 01:16:21 PM »
You seem like you must be a researcher in the arena. Carnivore diet is obviously foolish. No argument on that from me. We're talking two different diets, no reason to conflate them.

No, but I do enjoy reading the research, though it's scarcely available.

Everyone who has a success is convinced theirs is "right" or the "best" - keto, WFPB, paleo, etc.  So it's very interesting to read that there is basically not a lot of difference over the long-term.  Which I think goes to OP's point about "voo doo" out there.
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Johnez

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2018, 03:30:34 PM »
The diabetes diet. My girlfriend had gestational diabetes, could only eat between 15-30 g carbs a meal, had to have decent protein and fat in every meal and zero added sugar, and a bunch of healthy snacks. I quit energy drinks doing this, lost 15 pounds right away, this was about 3 months ago. I have strayed from the diet in massive ways recently, I've only gained 2-3 lbs and can get back on track within a week. I've plateaued a bit, but cutting excess sugar and caffeine has helped in other ways beside weightloss, mainly in getting better sleep, but also feeling better throughout the day. Getting physical work in definitely helps. Most "blue zones" around the world have built in physical work in their lifestyles, not some regiment of 30 minutes HIIT every day after sitting in a cubicle, but actually walking places, going up and down stairs and generally avoiding convenience. Ok, all over the place here, but good weight and health is about simplification. Pills, diet, exercise aren't gonna be cure-alls, its about the lifestyle.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 03:32:41 PM by Johnez »

golden1

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2018, 03:13:30 PM »
I have stayed at the same weight for most of my life, a normal weight, and my body really, really likes this setpoint.  The few times I have lost significant weight have been either due to situational depression (zero appetite), severe morning sickness, or a 500 calorie a day deficit.  Basically when I am on a deficit, I am getting quite hungry between meals.  There are calorie deficits that are easy to sustain and deficits that are hard.  I find that keeping fiber and protein in my diet is very helpful for feeling full, and reserving enough calories for a small treat at the end of the day is psychologically helpful.

MarciaB

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2018, 05:17:36 PM »
I've been trying something for the past week and I think it's making a difference. Mind you, there's nothing new here. Nothing you and I haven't heard from lots of others, I'm just actually incorporating it.

In thinking about weight and eating I think there are two major issues:

     Food quality - what you eat (and I'm not having issues with this part)
   
     Food quantity - how much you eat (yup, this one seems to be the problem for me)

And then there are other things surrounding that - and that's habits. My thinking (and you can add to this please) is that there are a couple of biggies:

     Frequency - how often you eat

     Velocity - the speed at which you eat

     Emotional/psychological - hooboy, this is a huge can of worms

So for me, looking at these issues, I identified velocity as the one I was going to tackle and see if that could manage a few of the others for me. If I just slowed down...would that make a difference?

And again, every weight loss/diet plan in the whole world tells you to eat slowly and chew thoroughly. But somehow I'm "hearing" the message this time around and taking it seriously. I'm slow that way.

What I'm finding is that if I look at my watch and decide that I'm going to spend no fewer than 30 minutes eating a breakfast portion (let's say that's a cup of yogurt and a half a banana) I would eat about a bite per minute. Take a bite, put the spoon down, enjoy the bite...wait and wait...then repeat.

At the end of the first week of what I'm calling the "slow food plan" I'm seeing some ease in my clothing and a little less on the scale. And somehow taking a long time to eat a reasonable portion (I don't seem to want seconds) I find that I'm full longer and am not tempted to snack, or randomly eat things on the counter or whatever. I also don't feel a pull to reward or comfort myself with food. I guess the act of taking time to nourish myself fills that somehow?? Who knew?

So, changing my habits around velocity had the effect of decreasing both the frequency and the quantity of food...which (wait for it) means I'm consuming fewer calories.

And the best part about this is that I'm still socializing, cooking for others, enjoying eating out, etc. I'm just doing it more smartly. I've changed nothing but velocity. I hope to slowly drop the 8-10 pounds I've "picked up" over the past handful of years. So far so good.
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Roadrunner53

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2018, 09:03:12 PM »
I used to work with a guy and several of us ate together at lunch time. No matter what he ate, he ate like a starved animal! He was a late in life vegetarian and whether or not he had to warm up something in the microwave or not, he would scarf up his meal in just minutes. Then the rest of the time he would stare at us carnivores eating meat based lunches. He was totally annoying! He would tell us tales of years previously eating steak every day. But now eats vegetarian. He looked as if he wanted to lunge on our food. He may have been a vegetarian, but he was in need of meat if you ask me! LOL!

DarkandStormy

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2018, 07:26:08 AM »
I used to work with a guy and several of us ate together at lunch time. No matter what he ate, he ate like a starved animal! He was a late in life vegetarian and whether or not he had to warm up something in the microwave or not, he would scarf up his meal in just minutes. Then the rest of the time he would stare at us carnivores eating meat based lunches. He was totally annoying! He would tell us tales of years previously eating steak every day. But now eats vegetarian. He looked as if he wanted to lunge on our food. He may have been a vegetarian, but he was in need of meat if you ask me! LOL!

This contributes nothing to this thread.  Any studies?  Any evidence?
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HiddenSp0t

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2018, 07:48:12 AM »
Well I don;t believe in magical weight loss so I just hired a personal trainer for motivation

iris lily

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #75 on: June 05, 2018, 09:11:31 AM »
In referance to the original post, placing “Weight Watchers” at the same level as some of the other voodo diets and diet-supplements is silly.

Weight  Watchers teaches a system of healthy eating. It is about portion control, choosing nealthy foods, exercise.

As such, it doesnt appeal to the “give me something to drink that makes me thin” crowd.

OP, your mindset shows you are not ready to lose weight if you equate a reducing diet as “starvation.”Dont go forth on that journey yet, you will not be successful.

GuitarStv

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #76 on: June 05, 2018, 11:37:02 AM »
There exists a drink that will cause you to lose weight (typically quite quickly).  It's called prune juice.



 . . . but you pay a price.
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golden1

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2018, 12:34:07 PM »
What do people here think of this article?

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/fat-officially-incurable-according-to-science/

I think the real takeaway is that once you are obese (or at any weight) for a certain length of time, it becomes harder and harder to lose and maintain without an extreme amount of discipline.  You basically have to face being hungry most of the time.  Some people can do it, but the data shows that most people cannot maintain weight loss. 




Roadrunner53

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2018, 01:05:33 PM »
Interesting article.

You'd think with all the scientific discoveries someone would have invented a wafer that when ingested with water it would fill the person up for 8 hours so the insane urges to eat could be curbed. It seems like a simple solution but where is this magic wafer? I know they tell you to eat fiber, protein, salads. Even when you do that no weight loss occurs unless you are down right starving.

Russ

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #79 on: June 07, 2018, 01:11:33 PM »
Go on a thru hike, eat as much as you want.

Obviously not everyone can do this. But there were some weight loss takeaways. First off, hunger is ok. You can go to sleep hungry and be just fine the next day. I used to think hunger meant it was imperative that I eat. But it mostly means I'm in a calorie deficit, which is what you want.  Hunger means you're doing it right. Just don't overdo it. You want to be a little hungry, not a lot hungry. Second, limiting the available food is a good way to lose weight. You hit the trailhead with X food and you have no options to get more for the next four days. But anything in your pack will be eaten. So just don't keep extra food in your house. It's ok to have extra staples because no one ever got fat because they were too tempted to cook up a pot of rice at midnight. But don't keep extra prepared foods in your house. Whatever is your kryptonite, get rid of it already. Third, a small snack can cut hunger pangs before bed time. I might feel like eating a pan of brownies in the evening, but half an orange makes me feel sufficiently satisfied before I go to bed.

heh, I gained 5 lbs on my last thru\
lost a bunch on the first one though, and it definitely gives you a different perspective on food

mm1970

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #80 on: June 07, 2018, 02:15:25 PM »
What do people here think of this article?

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/fat-officially-incurable-according-to-science/

I think the real takeaway is that once you are obese (or at any weight) for a certain length of time, it becomes harder and harder to lose and maintain without an extreme amount of discipline.  You basically have to face being hungry most of the time.  Some people can do it, but the data shows that most people cannot maintain weight loss.

That was very interesting, though I guess I'm one of the 2 in 1000?  I used to be part of the National Weight Control Registry.  They kicked me out (I think) because I didn't lose the 2nd baby weight fast enough - took me 2.5 years, and one of their annual followup questions was "have you given birth in the last year?"

Of course it doesn't say how long you have to keep it off.  I first lost the weight in 2002, then went on to have two babies. 

The finding does not surprise me.  I read a lot of books about health and weight and such.  Dr. Barbara Berkeley is an obesity doctor.  I read one of her books - basically, anyone who is "formerly overweight" has a body that performs differently than someone who was "never overweight", even if they are the same size.  When you gained the weight matters too - adolescents and teenagers create a lot of body fat, and if you are obese as a teen you create a lot of new fat cells.

wenchsenior

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #81 on: June 07, 2018, 02:25:58 PM »
Interesting article.

You'd think with all the scientific discoveries someone would have invented a wafer that when ingested with water it would fill the person up for 8 hours so the insane urges to eat could be curbed. It seems like a simple solution but where is this magic wafer? I know they tell you to eat fiber, protein, salads. Even when you do that no weight loss occurs unless you are down right starving.

I'm too lazy to look up links, but I think there is a fair amount of research into the hormones that control hunger with a goal toward maybe manipulating those eventually. 

Whatever mechanisms control appetite have a huge effect on me.  My weight hasn't fluctuated all that much during  my lifetime, and my diet has been basically the same since I was in my mid-20s, but my appetite has fluctuated to an insane degree.  It was what I would consider 'normal' up to about age 20, but then increased radically to where I was actively hungry (like, gurgling stomach and hunger pangs) within an hour or so after eating a full meal. All. Day. Long. And waking me up at night so that I couldn't sleep without a middle of night snack.  But then it started to diminish in my late 30s and almost entirely vanished when I turned 40.  For many years now, I have to remember to eat (and rarely get hunger pangs) and often I won't have any appetite until I've forced myself to eat for 5 minutes, at which point my desire to eat will finally kick in.

However, I would also point out that my wildly varying interest in eating/frequency of eating over the years didn't seem to affect my weight as much as you might expect, i.e., just b/c I was constantly hungry and  eating frequently didn't necessarily correlate with weight gain and vice versa.

Bodies are so weird.

toganet

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2018, 11:44:04 AM »
Interesting article.

You'd think with all the scientific discoveries someone would have invented a wafer that when ingested with water it would fill the person up for 8 hours so the insane urges to eat could be curbed. It seems like a simple solution but where is this magic wafer? I know they tell you to eat fiber, protein, salads. Even when you do that no weight loss occurs unless you are down right starving.

I tried some of these several years ago, no impact on my weight but at least they tasted bad, so I didn't want to eat more than one.

Malkynn

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2018, 04:30:32 AM »
Interesting article.

You'd think with all the scientific discoveries someone would have invented a wafer that when ingested with water it would fill the person up for 8 hours so the insane urges to eat could be curbed. It seems like a simple solution but where is this magic wafer? I know they tell you to eat fiber, protein, salads. Even when you do that no weight loss occurs unless you are down right starving.

From my experience, the urge to over eat has very little to do with actual hunger and almost everything to do with stress and stress-based habits/neural patterns.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2018, 06:21:49 AM »
Not exactly taking about over eating but let's say you have eaten lunch and now it is 4 pm and you are hungry and an apple isn't going to cut it and dinner is another hour away. This is where something would be nice to take the edge off.

lexde

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2018, 07:31:20 AM »
Keto.
Calories in vs. calories out.
Exercise.

cube.37

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2018, 07:33:12 AM »
Losing weight in theory is simple. Just eat under your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE).

1. Calculate your TDEE (this is approximate, so you might need to adjust through trial and error). (here's a website that I used: https://www.iifym.com/tdee-calculator/)
2. When cutting / losing weight, eat less than your TDEE. I do 75-80% of my TDEE when trying to lose weight. Approximately 2500 net calories (500 under yesterday, then 500 above today means 0 net calories) beneath TDEE will be one pound lost.


In order to accomplish this, I've personally done the following:

- Track your food on an app/website like myfitnesspal.com religiously. Even if you dont want to do this, do it for a week or so to give you a better understanding of the nutritional breakdown of the food you eat and how much they each cost in calories. People severely underestimate calories they put in their mouth, so this is a great learning experience.

- Eat X grams of protein, where X is your lean body mass. Estimate your body fat percentage (5-10% ripped male, 15% fit male, 20% bigger male; 15% ripped female, 20% fit female, 25%+ bigger female), then multiply the inverse with your body weight. E.g. If I'm 15% body fat, then my lean body mass = 85% x 150 (my weight). Eat this amount in protein daily.

- I like to enjoy food, so nothing is off limits. There are just tradeoffs. If I eat something I enjoy, like pizza which is much less satiating than chicken breast, it just means I'll be hungrier throughout the day and I need to mentally be prepared for this. Eating satiating foods and lots of fiber will help you endure the cut, so focus on these.

- Expect fluctuations on your scale. It'll take time as this is a long term game, anything short-term will not stick.

- Go to the gym and lift some weights to maintain your lean body mass while you're cutting. And do some cardio - it's good for your heart!

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2018, 10:07:53 AM »
Exercise will not help you to lose weight, for the most part. The number of calories burned in even a serious HIIT workout will not ordinarily equal the number of calories in a bagel.
But, most people trying to "lose weight" are actually trying to decrease body fat percentage. If you aren't an athlete, and you aren't very tall, you probably wouldn't care if you weighted exactly the same, but 1/10th your weight in fat became muscle. The only reason I have (6'6") to decrease my actual, on the scale, weight, is that I go over the weight restrictions on some things.

Dabnasty

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #88 on: June 15, 2018, 10:24:07 AM »
Exercise will not help you to lose weight, for the most part. The number of calories burned in even a serious HIIT workout will not ordinarily equal the number of calories in a bagel.
But, most people trying to "lose weight" are actually trying to decrease body fat percentage. If you aren't an athlete, and you aren't very tall, you probably wouldn't care if you weighted exactly the same, but 1/10th your weight in fat became muscle. The only reason I have (6'6") to decrease my actual, on the scale, weight, is that I go over the weight restrictions on some things.

I agree that exercise is less of a component than people often assume, however I would add to your explanation that building muscle mass increases calories burned even when you are sedentary. Somewhat like investing money, it keeps working for you after you earned it. Cardio is more like working for minimum wage and keeping it in cash :)

OurTown

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #89 on: June 18, 2018, 02:00:08 PM »
Go read "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung.  The spoiler alert version is you need to lower your insulin.  The way to do this is 1) keto / low carb and 2) intermittent fasting.

brute

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #90 on: July 02, 2018, 07:29:21 AM »
Exercise will not help you to lose weight, for the most part. The number of calories burned in even a serious HIIT workout will not ordinarily equal the number of calories in a bagel.
But, most people trying to "lose weight" are actually trying to decrease body fat percentage. If you aren't an athlete, and you aren't very tall, you probably wouldn't care if you weighted exactly the same, but 1/10th your weight in fat became muscle. The only reason I have (6'6") to decrease my actual, on the scale, weight, is that I go over the weight restrictions on some things.

I'm a little confused on how people are burning this few calories. One of my training sessions burns in the range of 1100-1600 calories. Hell, even a decent weekend hike takes care of at least 1000. There's also the piece where exercise keeps the metabolism elevated for hours afterwards.

So, obviously, you can't out train a lousy diet, but if people actually train, there's a ton of calories to be burned. It's why guys like me have to eat 5000-8000 calories a day during heavy training seasons to maintain weight.

GuitarStv

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #91 on: July 02, 2018, 11:05:22 AM »
There's a wide range of what's considered a 'workout'.  For many sedentary people, 20 minutes of moderate intensity exercise, or an hour of extremely low intensity exercise will feel tough . . . but neither will let them eat large quantities.  If you're in poor shape, you may not be able to sustain the duration or reach the intensity necessary to significantly benefit from exercise calorie burning.  If you're in good shape, the argument about not burning enough calories during exercise seems patently crazy though.  People looking for a 'lose weight quick' scheme are more likely to be in the former than the latter camp.
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Nicholas Carter

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #92 on: July 06, 2018, 09:00:17 AM »
I don't know, but for example: Running a 5k only burned about as many calories when I did it as are in a cinnabon cinnamon roll. (Conversely, a cinnabon cinnamon roll has enough calories in it to fuel a 5k run.)

GuitarStv

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #93 on: July 06, 2018, 09:33:13 AM »
I don't know, but for example: Running a 5k only burned about as many calories when I did it as are in a cinnabon cinnamon roll. (Conversely, a cinnabon cinnamon roll has enough calories in it to fuel a 5k run.)

The first link that I came to says that a Cinnabon cinnamon roll is 880 calories.  That's a shit ton of garbage.

1.  What kind of miracles are you expecting from 20-30 minutes of exercise?  You should be getting this level of exercise every day as a bare minimum, and significantly increasing it if you want to use exercise to lose weight or eat anything you want.

2.  If you are running the 5k at a faster pace, you're going to continue to burn calories for several hours after you stop running because of the way your metabolism stays sped up - calories burned during the run don't tell the whole story.

3.  If you're carrying a lot of muscle mass around, you're going to burn more calories during the run and after the run.  That's why a mix of strength training and cardio is generally a good idea to lose weight.
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dividendman

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #94 on: July 06, 2018, 09:53:49 AM »
Go read "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung.  The spoiler alert version is you need to lower your insulin.  The way to do this is 1) keto / low carb and 2) intermittent fasting.

Yeah, this worked for me. I basically just don't eat for a couple of days in the week - sometimes up to 3 days (72+ hours) in a row but usually just one or two ~36 hour periods of fasting. On days I do heavy lifts/working out I eat. I lost 40 lbs. I'm kinda not doing it right now but will get back into it.

I find on any day whenever I start eating I just keep eating. If I don't start eating it's easy not to eat! It's weird.

Not eating makes you lose weight. Who woulda thunk it?

hoping2retire35

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #95 on: July 06, 2018, 10:51:27 AM »
I've lost 25 lbs in the last two months, two years ago I lost 40 lbs without exercising but got a little skinny fat, this time I have been working out too.

What worked both times for nutrition/diet

Delay breakfast, really high protein, low carb does not matter really so long as;
1. No breads or refined sugars(a tiny bit of honey or a sip of juice is ok)
2. You can eat about as many carbs as protein IF you are running and working out.

So long as I portion out my protein and some fiber throughout the day I am not hungry in the evenings. Stay consistent. STAY CONSISTENT.

When I am working out a good bit; 5am wake up, run and workout out for 1hr in garage, sweat a ton, etc. then I; take a protein shake shortly afterward then keep with my usual diet of later breakfast and the rest of my calories.

I also think cycling water through intense exercise then re-hydrating in the day helps pull weight away. Really high fiber (35-40g/day for me(male currently 190lb+) pretty sure helps too. By the time I get that much fiber it is difficult to not get 150g+ of carbs, so I am not worried about it. Just avoid eating a bunch of apple or oranges for fiber, too much sugar, I usually have one big fruit per day.

Ok for the second important part, price.

I'll precook and eat ~5lb of chicken breast per week <$10.
A bag of lentils <$2.
One large piece of fruit a day(or the leftover pricey berries the wife or kids have not eaten) ~$5
4 cans of chunk lite tuna <$2.5
Various nuts on occasion <$1.5
Some oatmeal ~$1
Some greek yogurt~$2
Pea Protein powder~$5

So that is roughly $27 per week. Not a perfect meal plan for MMPete but not bad for a good weight loss diet. To lower cost I could cut out most of the greek yogurt and protein powder and up the chicken breast(it by far the best bang for your buck for lean protein) but then it could mess up my intermittent fasting in the mornings that seems to help so much with cutting.

If I were just maintaining I would do what I mentioned above with the pea protein and yogurt but then supplement with home smoked BBQ. A little more fat to the diet and some variety. Not to mention it is fun to smoke meat.



EDITSo, if you are just starting out or trying to restart, I would do these things in this order(pick up where you are in the list if you have been trying).

1.Track calories, watch what you eat(not even necessarily change just pay attention)
2.Start walking/ running, playing soccer, what ever you have done in the past that you enjoyed
3.Watch some videos, listen to others, read articles, get ideas
3. Cut breads, alcohol, sugar etc down.
4. Begin to choose higher protein options
5. Pick something to meal prep for the next week. It doesn't have to be for everyone, or even for the whole week, just lunch for a few days is good. If you don't enjoy it and don't do it again, that is fine, pick something else. Ideas; chicken breast, beans/peas/lentils, oatmeal-steel cut, traditional rolled, quick cooking(good to acceptable), baked fish, even hamburger precooked aren't that bad.
6. Try to start each day with exercise, even if it just a short run before work. The more you will do it the more you will enjoy it. Now I get up at 5 am everyday b/c I want to.
7.By now you are getting serious, what are your goals? Low BMI, low body fat %, being able to pick up 2 10yo and carry them to safety. What happens once you reach that goal, are you going to eat a bunch of fast food hamburgers; have a transition plan work out(work past your 'goal').
8a. Now that you are motivated it is time to get serious. Get up 1hr before you need to, sweat it out.
8b. You know what food works; meal prep virtually everything. You can add a little spontaneity, but keep it reasonable.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 11:07:11 AM by hoping2retire35 »

GreenSheep

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #96 on: July 06, 2018, 02:55:59 PM »
Calorie density:

http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/Photo2_files/CD%20Chart.jpg

The vertical axis is calories per pound of food.
UnProcCC = unprocessed carbs, like potatoes, brown rice, etc.
ProcCC = processed carbs like white rice, white pasta, etc.

Eating lower-calorie-density foods makes me feel full without consuming as many calories. I started eating with this chart in mind because the lower-calorie-density foods also happen to be higher in nutrition and less processed, generally (with nuts being an exception), and I lost 7 pounds I didn't know I had.

Also... cutting up my salad greens (and everything else in the salad) into tiny pieces. I thought I was eating large salads until I started cutting them so small that it's easier to eat them with a spoon. Now I can actually feel that I've eaten something rather substantial after I start my meal with a salad, and I tend to eat less of whatever comes after the salad.

golden1

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #97 on: July 08, 2018, 06:51:23 PM »
I like the idea of intermittent fasting, and it might be as close to a hack as anything. 

I am working up to longer periods right now, and I find that the practice has a lot of benefits that most mustacians would be drawn to.

1) It simplifies your life - one less meal to worry about.

2) It helps you appreciate the food you do eat, because eating less often makes food taste better (for me).

3) It helps me make better choices, since I have less opportunities for eating healthy throughout the day.  The first time I tried IF, I would eat a giant post fast meal, and pay for it later in reduced energy levels and sluggishness.  Now I start eating with a small snack, with either a lot of fiber or protein, and then eat a slightly larger meal a few hours later. 

4) You don’t constantly feel deprived, because you can eat more filling meals when you do eat.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 08:21:13 AM by golden1 »

toganet

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #98 on: July 09, 2018, 08:48:07 AM »
I like the idea of intermittent fasting, and it might be as close to a hack as anything. 

I am working up to longer periods right now, and I find that the practice has a lot of benefits that most mustacians would be drawn to.

1) It simplifies your life - one less meal to worry about.

2) It helps you appreciate the food you do eat, because eating less often makes food taste better (for me).

3) It helps me make better choices, since I have less opportunities for eating healthy throughout the day.  The first time I tried IF, I would eat a giant post fast meal, and pay for it later in reduced energy levels and sluggishness.  Now I start eating with a small snack, with either a lot of fiber or protein, and then eat a slightly larger meal a few hours later. 

4) You don’t constantly feel deprived, because you can eat more filling meals when you do eat.

I've been doing IF + Keto for a while, and find they work well together.  Since my body is keto-adapted, it's easier to go long(er) periods without eating.  Then, when I do eat I am not eating things that induce "food coma" so I feel satisfied and feel like my energy supply is more constant.

I tried to do 5+2 fasting but couldn't stick with it.  I may try again as I feel like it would be good for me.

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #99 on: July 09, 2018, 11:38:52 AM »
The first link that I came to says that a Cinnabon cinnamon roll is 880 calories.  That's a shit ton of garbage.

1.  What kind of miracles are you expecting from 20-30 minutes of exercise?  You should be getting this level of exercise every day as a bare minimum, and significantly increasing it if you want to use exercise to lose weight or eat anything you want.
I feel like I'm maybe failing to communicate my point, which is that if you want to lose weight, you have to start by not eating a shit ton of garbage. I was exercising a lot at the time, and it made me look good. But if I actually wanted to weigh less, I had to put the cinnamon rolls down.