Author Topic: Weight Loss Voodoo  (Read 5774 times)

Roadrunner53

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Weight Loss Voodoo
« on: April 29, 2018, 09:42:18 AM »
So do any of you have real weight loss techniques to help weight loss?

There are so many claims that:

Apple Cider Vinegar helps burn fat
Coconut oil helps weight loss
Green Tea helps weight loss
Olive oil helps weight loss
Metamucil helps weight loss
Over the counter weight loss pills help weight loss
The Keto diet
High fat diet
Low fat diet
Low carb diet
Nutrisystem
Jenny Craig
Weight Watchers
There are a thousand books on weight loss! Does anything really work besides starvation?

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2018, 09:58:39 AM »
I asked my doctor this question a few years back.  The peer reviewed science shows that what is most effective is making small but tolerable permanent lifestyle changes.  You want to lose no more than .75 pounds per week in most cases.  Slow and steady wins the race.  I peaked at 250 and weighed in at 200.4 this morning.  I average about .3 pounds per week.

I find it helps tremendously to:

- always get a good night's sleep (can't over-emphasize this)
- eat multiple small meals
- drink plenty of water (no liquid calories - ever!)
- eat slower, it takes fifteen minutes or so for your satiation hormones to start working
- increase your movement

Latest trick is I've found a midmeal hunger pang can usually be silenced with a snack of 4 baby carrots and big glass of water.  You have to wait 15-30 minutes though for the appropriate hormones to kick in.  I cheat a little by dipping mine in hummus for added flavor.
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Roadrunner53

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2018, 10:14:34 AM »
There is another trick, not sure if it really helps or not but it is a plastic thing you put over your plate, then spoon your food into the slots to portion out food 'correctly'. There are other products that are similar:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_8_12?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=food+portion+plates+for+weight+loss&sprefix=food+portion%2Caps%2C159&crid=301MS3R5AEY85


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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2018, 12:27:31 PM »
I lost 40 kg over 7 years and I have kept the weight off for the last 13 years (with a diet loosely inspired by the WW method in the 80s).
I would imagine that I am onto something on the subject if I have been so successful. Please bear in mind I am a lambda omnivore.

So my medley of suggestions:
- stop listening to anyone who does not know what they're talking about. No, your diet to lose 5 kg will not work on me if I have 50 kg to lose!
- weight pasta and rice. a portion is 75g for pasta, 65g for rice. I still do that to this day.
- it is a marathon not a race.
- eat less but please, eat what you like. Pick up any vegetable you like, pair it with any reasonably lean meat you like, that's already a perfect lunch! Cut sugar and eat less but better fats (nuts for example - and weight them!). WW had 6 categories in the 80s: fat, carbs, proteins, fruit, vegetables and dairy, but I don't remember exactly how they worked out the portions in each category.
- no crap stored at home!
- life is all about choices; you can choose not to eat this or that, but then if you indulge, choose something for which the calories are "worthwhile" (your favorite dessert for example).
- weight yourself everyday (I know, I know, peeps say don't do it, I don't care, it worked for me and I still weight myself everyday!). The scale is not the enemy!

I hope something in the above will be of some help to you.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 12:31:50 PM by Polaria »

MasterStache

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2018, 04:12:04 PM »
Cutting carbs. Simply phasing out bread, pasta and reducing other carbs helps me shed some pounds if I need to. Nothing magical to it really.

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2018, 04:34:51 PM »
You don't want to hear this, but ...

Exercise.  Combination of (1) weight/resistance training - even body-weight exercises such as squats, push-ups, lunges, crunches, triceps dips; and (2) cardio.  2 sessions a week each.  Start with 15-20 minutes per session and space them out over the week.  Cardio on Mon-Thurs and weight/resistance training on Tues-Fri.  Or whatever.  Build up to 3-4 hours per week total.  It's really not much to ask of yourself out of your available 112 waking hours per week, and it's the kindest thing you can ever do for yourself, even if it doesn't feel like it at the time.

And, eat clean.  Avoid processed foods of all kinds.

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2018, 05:51:21 PM »
1.  Go for a brisk (as fast as you can manage: you will get faster) 10 minute walk before each meal.

2.  Control your portions by eating one only large plate of food and two small plates or bowls of food a day.

3.  Eat at least 5 portions of veg a day.  Potatoes and sweetcorn don't count, nor does anything cooked with oil.  Start each meal by eating veg.

4.  No snacks that aren't fresh veg.

5.  No drinks with sugar in them, including fruit juice.

Any weight loss method that requires you to spend more time and effort thinking about food will be self-defeating, so don't add any fancy ingredients, don't take away any ingredients, don't start on special new recipes.  Same with exercise: get the basics right (30 minutes brisk walking a day puts you in the top half of the population for exercise), don't bother with fancy regimens and fancy equipment at the gym.  Settle into a regular eating pattern, move your body more and get on with your life.

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wenchsenior

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2018, 07:29:00 PM »
I firmly believe everyone's body responds slightly differently to different weight loss strategies, so what works for most people might not work for all.

Also, my understanding is that current evidence shows some changes in metabolism caused by both gaining weight and by calorie restriction, which causes it to be harder to lose weight once you have gained it. 

Still, here is what has always worked for me (losing only about 25 lbs per attempt, which is a lot on my tiny frame, but admittedly might not be what you are looking for here).

First of all, weight maintenance has for me been a matter of eating habits, not exercise (which has fluctuated wildly over the years). 

1. I never forbid myself any foods, but I put limits on how often or how much I can eat of unhealthy items. 

2. I think in terms of 'nutrition bang/calorie buck'.  So if I am in my normal routine, I usually first make sure I've eaten a sufficient amount of healthy food every day before I eat any unhealthy food (e.g., multiple servings of fresh fruit and veggies, a serving or two of healthy fats...mainly olive oil, nuts, and avocado, and 1 serving of lean protein (fish/white meat poultry).  Grains, non-fruit sugars, fatty deserts, red meat, dairy, etc., are all 'add ons' that make it into my diet in small amounts 'around the edges' of my daily eating, much like condiments. 

3. Similarly, I don't 'waste' empty calories on stuff that I don't love.  I don't eat candy just b/c 'it's there'.  For the most part, I like candy but don't love it. So I'll go years without eating any candy, no matter how much I encounter it, but I will regularly buy Ben and Jerry's full-fat ice cream (which I LOVE) and eat only 2-3 spoonfuls per day.  Or a couple of squares of expensive dark chocolate.  If I'm going to waste those calories, I better REALLY enjoy the experience.   Or, e.g., I don't love cheese.  It's fine, and I will eat it occasionally at parties.  But I would never buy it for myself. ETA: Ok, I lied.  I love goat cheese in certain circumstances and will buy it occasionally LOL.

4.  I routinize my eating a lot, so that I don't spend a lot of time thinking about food.  However, I am fortunate in that I love healthy foods just as much as unhealthy, and am totally happy eating e.g. big complex salads every day of the week for at least one meal. Likewise, I'm not terribly prone to 'food boredom'.  Your mileage might vary.

5.  When changing eating habits, make one small change at a time until it sticks (usually at least 3 weeks), and then make the next change until you have accumulated new eating habits.  I know for sure this can be done, b/c I radically revamped my shitty youthful eating habits when I was about 30, and it has stuck for 17 years.   

That's about it for food and maintaining my weight. 

As to actually losing weight, there is no question what works for my body: Cutting carbs/sugar, and combining that with light strength training and short bursts of high intensity aerobic exercise.  Essentially, low-carb w/interval training.  I can eat incredible amounts of additional fat or protein calories in this situation, and my body tears through them like a wildfire.  It is almost scary.

I found this out by accident when I used to do field work on a topographically challenging Caribbean island.  Every day I'd be hiking steep trails in short bursts (hike steep incline as fast as possible for 5 minutes, stop to do surveys for 3 minutes) for hours every day.  We had access to TONS of food at this field site, where we were supplied with 3 squares involving multiple courses, and desserts with both lunch and dinner.  Plus alcohol in the evening.  To sum up: I regularly ate ~3x as much food, and higher calorie food, at this field site as I normally would at home.  Unless I made an active effort to eat carbs/dessert every single day, I would drop close to 5 lbs per week at that job.  One year I decided maybe I'd skip all the sugary desserts and most of the simple carbs, for health reasons.  Result was I went home 3 weeks later brutally thin, with no boobs, and my pants tied around my waist with a bungee cord to keep them from falling off.

Again, this has consistently worked for me throughout my life, including the several occasions I gained 20+ lbs.  Your body might function differently in the particulars, though.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 07:34:37 PM by wenchsenior »

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 08:28:46 PM »
I've never had weight problems, I also don't eat super healthy or exercise as much as I should. I am however fidgety and I like to go on walks. I probably walk outside for 1.5-2 hours a day, I pace at work during phone meetings, and after sitting too long I have a very strong impulse to get up and move around.

Quote
Coconut oil helps weight loss
Olive oil helps weight loss

Most oils are heavy in calories so I don't see how either would help with weight loss. However, what I've read about olive oil is that it helps your ratio of good VS bad cholesterol.

Step37

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2018, 08:42:24 PM »
Iíve followed Weight Watchers for nearly 20 years; the program is always being tweaked, and I think the current version is fantastic. What I like about it:
- teaches you how and how much to eat (encourages good, healthy choices)
- itís not a diet, but a lifestyle (okay, you quite likely will be eating less than what youíre used to, but it is rare for me to feel hungry if Iím following the program properly
- group support (for me, the accountability is key)
- itís real food
- there is room for splurges (giving up all favourite treats can be a recipe for binging/disaster)

I donít think thereís any special secret or trick or magic to weight loss (assuming no medical condition, of course). Consume fewer and healthier calories, eat real food (with a focus on lean protein, veggies, fruit and cutting back some [to a lot] on carbs/sugar), stay on track far more than you donít... exercise is great for the health benefits, but you simply cannot outexercise a poor diet. In my experience, the most important thing is mindset. Once you are determined to do it, it gets a lot easier; once youíve seen some results, you want to keep it going. Quite a lot like getting control of oneís finances.
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Fireball

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2018, 09:09:48 PM »
you simply cannot outexercise a poor diet.

Oh, you can, but running 60-70 miles a week is hell. Bleh.

NorCal

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 09:46:13 PM »
I can share what's worked for my family.  It's no cure all, and it's not a diet for everyone. 

We started the Paleo diet last August.  Don't read too much into the name.  It's essentially a diet where we eat similar to what our grandparents ate.

Short simple version.  Cut out everything listed below.  Beyond that, eat as much as you want.  In order for this diet to work, you need to be 70-80% compliant with it.  Otherwise, you won't get much benefit at all.

Have close to zero:
-Sugars
-Grains
-Dairy
-Legumes (I don't know why this one is in there).
-Soy
-Processed additives like partially hydrogenated anything or oils.

Pick up a book if you're truly interested.  There are some nuances.  We both lost about 20 pounds in the first two months while eating as much as we want.  My wife has continued to lose weight since then, although I've mostly leveled off 25-30lbs below my peak.  We also feel much healthier.  My wife's high blood pressure entirely disappeared since starting the diet.

Down sides to the diet:
-I hate being one of those people on a fad diet.  I have to roll my eyes at myself when I talk about it.
-A lot of "convenient" foods are not allowed.  You have to think more about meals and do more meal planning.  No more breakfast cereals or yogurts.
-It will cost more money.  While any mustachian can optimize and avoid crazy expenses, you are eliminating some of the cheapest foods from your diet (simple grains) and adding more expensive stuff (proteins).
-It is not a kid friendly diet, at least for us.  Our eldest has no interest in the compliant foods, so we typically make her a separate dish.  Yes, we are suckers.



Travis

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2018, 10:23:03 PM »
The meal planning and being educated about what you're putting in your body is an essential first step. Ignoring this is like a Case Study that doesn't start off with "well what the hell is your income and budget?"  Losing weight is at its heart a math problem.  Your calories out have to exceed your calories in.  The rate at which you do this is in some part dependent on the source of those calories.  Your energy to get through your day, commitment to the plan, and overall health are also impacted by the type of food you eat.  There's a big difference between 1000 calories of beans and apples and 1000 calories of candy.  Also, use smaller plates for your meals. Portions are easier to control and you don't feel obligated to fill your plate to capacity.

Steady and regular exercise.  This is the other half of the math problem.  Don't go nuts trying to sprint off that cheat meal.  You'll just hurt yourself.  Your eating and exercise habits are a mix of biological and psychological which take weeks to form.  It sounds like a fad, but people who walk around with Fitbits are taking important steps (literal and metaphorical).  It's a system that reminds you to get up and move around.  The number of steps you take throughout the day can be translated into a mathematical calorie burn.  I'm not saying get a Fitbit, but rather form these habits of getting up and moving around. As exercise stops becoming new and becomes a habit, slowly increase your activity. 

Avoid fad diets like you should be avoiding high fructose corn syrup.  Crash diets and fad diets (if they work at all) are temporary and often detrimental to your health. Slow and steady wins this race (see habits comment above).
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gooki

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2018, 04:58:27 AM »
The two methods that Iíve seen to be effective are.

1. Healthy eating and regular exercise.

2. Two hours heavy exercise five days a week and eat whatever the fuck you want.
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Roadrunner53

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2018, 05:08:14 AM »
I've never had weight problems, I also don't eat super healthy or exercise as much as I should. I am however fidgety and I like to go on walks. I probably walk outside for 1.5-2 hours a day, I pace at work during phone meetings, and after sitting too long I have a very strong impulse to get up and move around.

Quote
Coconut oil helps weight loss
Olive oil helps weight loss

Most oils are heavy in calories so I don't see how either would help with weight loss. However, what I've read about olive oil is that it helps your ratio of good VS bad cholesterol.

Coconut diet: http://coconutdiet.com/
Olive oil diet: http://slism.com/diet/olive-oil-diet.html#ConsumptionForTheOliveOilDiet

No idea if these diets work.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2018, 06:49:44 AM »
My take on weight loss is that long term success needs two elements.

1. Brute force. Drop your caloric intake below your total daily energy expenditure. Common advice is to reduce by 500 calories, which will make your body catabolize 1 lbs of tissue each week.

2. Finesse. Explore different ways of eating, to figure out the best way to cause the deficit. Keto, low carb, vegan, plant based, nutritional density, weight watchers. There are lots of different paths.

There seems to be growing evidence that the actual act of exercise doesn't help weigh loss. Burning extra calories just makes you hungrier, and taxes your willpower. Stop with the pitchforks, m'kay. Exercise is certainly better for overall health, and higher muscle mass means you get to eat more (score!) but is neutral towards successful weight loss.

Short answer - you DO have to experience hunger, but there are lots of ways to strategically to minimize suffering.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2018, 06:58:48 AM »

GuitarStv

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2018, 07:11:32 AM »
Eat a large raw beet before each meal.  Beets are good for you (bonus), they taste terrible (appetite suppression), they take a while to crunch through and eat (forces slower eating - appetite suppression), there's a lot of fiber in them (makes you feel full for a long time - appetite suppression), and the calories in them are less bio-available when eaten raw (calorie sparse).  It's part of what I used to do when cutting weight for wrestling tournaments.
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Roadrunner53

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2018, 07:16:41 AM »
Eat a large raw beet before each meal.  Beets are good for you (bonus), they taste terrible (appetite suppression), they take a while to crunch through and eat (forces slower eating - appetite suppression), there's a lot of fiber in them (makes you feel full for a long time - appetite suppression), and the calories in them are less bio-available when eaten raw (calorie sparse).  It's part of what I used to do when cutting weight for wrestling tournaments.


Is there no way you could make them taste better? My mom used to make pickled beets and used vinegar, cloves and sugar. I know sugar is no good but maybe some alternative sweetener. They tasted marvelous!

wenchsenior

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2018, 07:27:21 AM »
Several other people have pointed this out already, but I want to re-emphasize it. 

Most diets don't work long term b/c by their very nature they are temporary.  I.e., "I'm on a diet to lose 20 lbs by swimsuit season".  But if you are constantly adopting a 'diet' mindset in that way, it means that you view dieting as a deprivation and a constant assertion of willpower.  And of course, almost everyone trying to maintain that into perpetuity will eventually fail.  The whole time you are dieting, in the back of your mind is the assumption that someday you can 'go off' the diet.  But of course, if you go off the diet and resume something close to your old relationship with food, then you gain the weight back. 

Personally, I think the whole traditional American 'dieting' approach is designed to not only fail, but to warp peoples' psychological relationship with food (which in many people isn't very healthy to begin with) and make them constantly resentful and depressed.  Which, needless to say, helps with marketing more diet gimmicks.

IMO the key is to change to new, permanent, healthy eating habits where you never have to 'diet' again.

GuitarStv

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2018, 07:41:53 AM »
Eat a large raw beet before each meal.  Beets are good for you (bonus), they taste terrible (appetite suppression), they take a while to crunch through and eat (forces slower eating - appetite suppression), there's a lot of fiber in them (makes you feel full for a long time - appetite suppression), and the calories in them are less bio-available when eaten raw (calorie sparse).  It's part of what I used to do when cutting weight for wrestling tournaments.


Is there no way you could make them taste better? My mom used to make pickled beets and used vinegar, cloves and sugar. I know sugar is no good but maybe some alternative sweetener. They tasted marvelous!

You don't want them to taste better.  Crappy taste is one of the benefits from a weight loss perspective.



Several other people have pointed this out already, but I want to re-emphasize it. 

Most diets don't work long term b/c by their very nature they are temporary.  I.e., "I'm on a diet to lose 20 lbs by swimsuit season".  But if you are constantly adopting a 'diet' mindset in that way, it means that you view dieting as a deprivation and a constant assertion of willpower.  And of course, almost everyone trying to maintain that into perpetuity will eventually fail.  The whole time you are dieting, in the back of your mind is the assumption that someday you can 'go off' the diet.  But of course, if you go off the diet and resume something close to your old relationship with food, then you gain the weight back. 

Personally, I think the whole traditional American 'dieting' approach is designed to not only fail, but to warp peoples' psychological relationship with food (which in many people isn't very healthy to begin with) and make them constantly resentful and depressed.  Which, needless to say, helps with marketing more diet gimmicks.

IMO the key is to change to new, permanent, healthy eating habits where you never have to 'diet' again.

Dieting is always short term.  By it's nature it can't work long term.  When you're dieting, you're consuming fewer calories than required for weight maintenance.  That's never, ever going to something you can do for an extended period without starving.  If someone doesn't realize this, yeah, they're definitely going to fail.

Once you're at your target weight though, then you stop dieting and go into regular healthy body weight maintenance.  You figure out how many calories a day you need to eat to maintain your weight, and come up with ways to be happy eating that amount.  You will need to increase your caloric intake from the dieting phase as you're no longer aiming for a calorie deficit.
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ministashy

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2018, 08:42:45 AM »
Dieting is always short term.  By it's nature it can't work long term.  When you're dieting, you're consuming fewer calories than required for weight maintenance.  That's never, ever going to something you can do for an extended period without starving.  If someone doesn't realize this, yeah, they're definitely going to fail.

Once you're at your target weight though, then you stop dieting and go into regular healthy body weight maintenance.  You figure out how many calories a day you need to eat to maintain your weight, and come up with ways to be happy eating that amount.  You will need to increase your caloric intake from the dieting phase as you're no longer aiming for a calorie deficit.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, since there are more than a few people on this board that equate fat=lazy slob, but there are a fair amount of studies out there that show that 'maintenance' of a certain body weight is not as easy as all that either.  Your body seems to have a certain set point that it wants to settle at for weight (and its different for everyone), and trying to maintain either a smaller or larger size long-term (+five years) just results in your body's metabolic processes doing all sorts of weird things to circumvent you and get back to that weight.

Honestly, your best best is to focus on habits proven to improve health outcomes (smoking, drinking, exercise, sleep and amount of fiber in diet) and accept your weight wherever it settles at.  Dieting itself, with all the weight cycling that comes with it, is another health risk.  Check out HAES (Health At Every Size)--they list a fair amount of research studies that support this, and more has come out since the book came out.  This article is one example of a study about the health risks of obesity, and how they don't really stand up to scrutiny:  http://www.neverdietagain.co.uk/enjoy-your-haes-while-it-lasts-or-is-metabolically-healthy-obesity-a-myth/

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2018, 09:01:50 AM »
So do any of you have real weight loss techniques to help weight loss?
Does anything really work besides starvation?
There are several diet and metabolism hacks used by fitness competitors during show prep. Green tea extract pills, fasted walks in the morning, sitting in cold baths and drinking lots of ice water, etc. Those things do help, but they are the 1% on top of the 99% that is a good diet and exercise regimen. Get the diet in place first, the fitness second and worry about the little boosters last.

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2018, 09:18:31 AM »
Weigh yourself every day.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4380831/

According that neat little study (small n)
"Daily weighers lost significantly more weight compared to those weighing less than daily (mean difference, −6.1kg)"

I've been doing this for 13 months now and have lost 14 pounds, making no other real changes. I've always exercised somewhere around a moderate amount, but knowing that the scale is waiting every morning and seeing hundreds of data points on a weight tracking app has a way of forcing you to be accountable. It's like tracking your net worth - there will be up and downs and tiny fluctuations (day to day and week to week), but that trend line had damn well better be going the right way. If you don't measure it, you can't fix it. You won't even know it needs fixing.

BookLoverL

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2018, 09:22:51 AM »
I'm in the healthy BMI range, but I read a lot of health and fitness stuff online over the years (from various camps), and here's my 2 cents:

1) CICO, including a) not eating giant portion sizes or eating large quantities of snacks, and b) moving/fidgeting/exercising regularly. You can track this by the week instead of by the day, which allows more room for the occasional party or fancy dinner out or whatever, because you can eat less on a different day of the week to make up for it.

2) Avoid junk food for the most part, because it's scientifically made by the companies so that it will have just the right combination of seasoning that you crave more of it, and it's generally a very high amount of calories for the amount of fullness it gives you. You don't have to stick to this rule rigidly, but a good rule of thumb is whether your (or somebody else's, if it's a different culture's food) great-grandmother would have immediately recognised it as food.

3) Pick foods that are more naturally filling and nutrient-dense. It's much harder to gorge on, say, roast chicken than it is to gorge on fries. If you want to build muscle (or retain more muscle as you lose weight), you want plenty of protein, and don't forget your fruit and veggies for your vitamins and minerals. There are advocates on both the low-fat/high-carb and low-carb/high-fat sides of the debate, so regarding that just pick whichever works for you, or just don't worry about carb vs fat and stick with the "no junk food" thing.

4) Set up your environment so that it's harder for you to access the food you're trying to avoid. If you have any junk food left in your house because of relatives stopping you from throwing it away or whatever, hide it at the back of a cupboard so you at least can't see it. And keep your exercise kit either by your bed (so you can put it on first thing in the morning) or by your front door (so you can pick it up super-easily to go to the gym). If you don't do anything to make it easier for yourself, and you try to rely entirely on willpower, you will fall off the bandwagon. Though it's worth pointing out that if you do fall off, it's not the end of the world - just start your plan again in time for the next meal.

The most important thing to remember, in order to avoid yo-yo dieting and other unsustainable changes, is that you are NOT ON A DIET, you are CHANGING YOUR ATTITUDES TOWARDS FOOD. You can't just do a quick diet for a couple of months, go back to your old habits as soon as you reach your goal weight, and expect to keep it off. You need to have an overall mindset of eating healthily and appropriately, first in a range of a few hundred calories deficit a day for weight loss, and then with roughly no deficit or gain once you reach your goal weight. This means that you need to be eating the same types (i.e., still avoiding junk food) and the same smaller portion sizes of food indefinitely. So make sure whatever eating style you picked is sustainable for you in the long term, and not overly restrictive for you.

There are some hacks that might help get a faster metabolism or whatever, but to be honest I think most of them are just fiddling round the edges and therefore are probably only applicable to serious athletes or something. It's better to sort out the big picture of your relationship with food first, rather than worry about things like what time of day to eat at or whatever.
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OccamsPhaco

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2018, 10:00:00 AM »
Oh and an addendum to my previous post. 14 pounds in a year doesn't sound like much and isn't encouraging for most people to hear. But I've been the same weight for about a decade and started out just a little overweight when I began weighing in. I'm now not in the overweight BMI for the first time in my adult life. And I can still eat stuff I like and drink beer - just a tiny bit less. Shave 300 calories a day somewhere (one less beer and 5 more minutes on a bike, skip a second helping, run a few miles, take the bread off a hamburger), and you'll lose over 2 pounds a month. Again I think it's like a saving a few bucks here and there. It adds up without impacting happiness and before you know it, you've got new habits ingrained and have managed to lose weight.

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2018, 10:38:10 AM »
I used many of the same discipline techniques for staying fit as I do for saving money!

1. Set goals! Any realistic fitness program has to be enduring and sustainable. Diets are about as effective as temporary saving.
2. Quantify progress so you can see what new processes have the best effect. Different diets and exercise programs work differently for each person.
3. Enjoy the new life change. Don't buy a treadmill if it does not look like something fun. Create new hobbies that you want to add to your life style. Hiking, biking, think of some things you enjoy and modify them to burn calories if possible.

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2018, 02:27:18 PM »
There's something called the satiety index. It tells you how full you will feel if you eat a certain number of calories. Generally speaking, foods higher in water, fiber, and protein will make you feel fuller for a given number of calories. I find that eating these foods really does help me feel full, and avoid snacking. Its not a magic cure but it is helpful as part of an overall strategy of counting calories and regular exercise.

ketchup

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2018, 03:54:33 PM »
GF lost about 60lbs between last September and this March (~2.3lb/week).

Constant calorie deficit with some intermittent fasting.  Not always calorie counting, but reasonable portion control with an intuition for how calorically-dense common meals of ours are.
Nutrient-dense food.  No/very limited (maybe once a month) junk food.  Minimal sugar/starch.  95% of food prepared at home (she travels a lot for work so this isn't always easy).
No snacking.  Only meals.  Only water or coffee to drink.
10,000 steps per day minimum (Fitbit tracked), mostly outdoors supplemented with treadmill walking in the winter.  I think she missed two total days (when she was sick) since September.
Barbell weight training 3x/week.
HIIT sprinting 2x/week.

She did a few other little things but those six are (presumably) where the bulk of her results came from.  Some were things she was already doing.  I'm not saying it's easy, but it doesn't have to be super complicated.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 03:59:03 PM by ketchup »

mm1970

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2018, 05:34:28 PM »
This story is amazing! This couple lost all this weight in 18 months!

https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/couple-loses-400-pounds-inspirational-weight-loss-journey/story?id=51653532
I just started following her on IG a couple of weeks ago.

mm1970

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2018, 05:43:44 PM »
I firmly believe everyone's body responds slightly differently to different weight loss strategies, so what works for most people might not work for all.

*snip*

Again, this has consistently worked for me throughout my life, including the several occasions I gained 20+ lbs.  Your body might function differently in the particulars, though.

I swear we were separated at birth.

I've lost weight several times over the years.  First in my early 30's because I was fat.  Later in my latter 30's and early 40's because that's when I had babies.

First couple of times it was Weight Watchers, but I found that calorie restriction was a bit too much because when I hit goal and ate more I dropped weight faster.

Eventually, around age 40, WW stopped working.

I had to do a lot of experimenting because - what works for person A might not work for person B.  And what works for person A when they are 20 might not work when they are 30 or 40 or 50.

"You can't out exercise a bad diet" is good advice - thing is you can to some point.  Some people can do it until their 60s before the body breaks down - for me it was my 20s.

Right now I'm training for a half marathon, and contrary to the idea that you can eat a lot - my calorie intake doesn't really change with the increased training.


In any event, what works for me *NOW* as a late 40's woman is:
- Fewer carbs.  Ideally 2 servings a day, but as I'm not a huge fan of meat, usually I get more like 4.  Our bodies read beans as a carb, for example - and I tend to use them as my "protein".
- Repeat foods.  I have 2-3 different breakfasts that I rotate through.  I eat salad for lunch every.single.day.  I have two snacks, and they are reliably fruit and nuts, sometimes veggies and hummus.   I make two dinners on the weekends and we eat them all week, and I keep my portion sizes the same.
- I aim for 4-6 cups of fruit and vegetables a day, mostly veg.
- I don't drink much, maybe a glass of wine a week, because it interferes with my sleep.
- Really really try to get a lot of sleep.  But I'm an insomniac.
- Exercise wise, right now I'm on the run 3x a week, swim once, walk twice, do some body weight training 1-2x a week.
- No wheat.  I started having digestive issues a year ago, and in July identified wheat as a possible culprit.  That or cheese.  Didn't want it to be cheese.  So I gave up wheat (not gluten), just subbed different carbs, and I lost 8 pounds.  I was already at a healthy weight.
- I tend to eat a higher fat diet - olive oil, olives, cheese, nuts, butter - my salads and my veggies are delicious and they are filling. 
- I don't eat much meat.  The 2 meals I eat a week, that cover 6 dinners - one is vegetarian or vegan and the other has meat.

Polaria

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2018, 11:34:41 PM »
Weigh yourself every day.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4380831/

According that neat little study (small n)
"Daily weighers lost significantly more weight compared to those weighing less than daily (mean difference, −6.1kg)"

I've been doing this for 13 months now and have lost 14 pounds, making no other real changes. I've always exercised somewhere around a moderate amount, but knowing that the scale is waiting every morning and seeing hundreds of data points on a weight tracking app has a way of forcing you to be accountable. It's like tracking your net worth - there will be up and downs and tiny fluctuations (day to day and week to week), but that trend line had damn well better be going the right way. If you don't measure it, you can't fix it. You won't even know it needs fixing.

Ah, glad to see there is some indication that "weight yourself every day" is a worthwhile advice. I think that's the biggest thing that's keeping me from gaining back the weight. I totally agree with you!

Steve Ainslie

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2018, 04:52:24 AM »
I follow mostly what Norcal does above and echo his/her comments.

Primal/Paleo kept me around 170-175.

Then when I learned sbout keto (from a Joe Rogan podcast), I really cut back on starches and fruit. No more potatos. No bread. Limited fruit. No starchy vegetables.

I have to go zero tolerance on nuts, chips and chocolate. If I eat one, I eat the entire bag.

I was shocked. I dropped to 160. I almost have a 2 pack for the first time in my life at 50 years old.

If I get to 152-155 ish I'll match my weight when I was a 19year old lifeguard !

My energy is better than ever. I'm rarely hungry as opposed to all my other diets where I was usually hungry.

Iíve done high carb/low fat, 6 meals a day bodybuilder plan, high protein, standard american diet, and vegan/vegetarian. All with lots of exercise. In most cases, I never got under 180.

The only other one that produced similar weight loss was vegetarian. But after 5 years, I was always tired and felt suicidal every morning. As soon as I added meat back into my diet, I improved.



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accolay

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2018, 06:38:56 AM »
Salmonella diet hands down. Works overnight!

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2018, 08:05:28 AM »
Salmonella diet hands down. Works overnight!

The divorce diet is a good one, too. Doesn't work overnight, but the results are lasting!
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LifeHappens

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2018, 08:16:47 AM »
Salmonella diet hands down. Works overnight!

The divorce diet is a good one, too. Doesn't work overnight, but the results are lasting!
A good bout of noroviris this Christmas took care of the holiday weight gain. I don't recommend it.

GuitarStv

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2018, 08:22:32 AM »
Salmonella diet hands down. Works overnight!

I lost 20 lbs in two weeks when I had blood poisoning.  :P
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mm1970

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2018, 12:57:23 PM »
Salmonella diet hands down. Works overnight!

The divorce diet is a good one, too. Doesn't work overnight, but the results are lasting!
A good bout of noroviris this Christmas took care of the holiday weight gain. I don't recommend it.
That was our Thanksgiving a couple of years ago.  crackers and applesauce for Thanksgiving dinner.  I lost so much weight that my husband said I looked like a skeleton with melting drooping skin. 

Then the kids got it again at Christmas.

Leisured

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2018, 06:26:43 AM »
Read the book 'French Women don't get fat.' I am sure some do, but the book recommends that you eat what you like, but in small portions. Enjoy what you eat.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_13?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=french+women+don%27t+get+fat&sprefix=french+women+%2Cdigital-text%2C393&crid=Y77QJ2O77OFV

I use Hermestas as an artificial sweetener.


wienerdog

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2018, 08:12:53 PM »

furrychickens

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2018, 06:21:23 AM »
Cutting carbs, specifically grains, starchy veg, and concentrated sugar (both real and fake) is as close to a universal weight loss tool as Iím aware of.

Some folks also need to cut dairy, high glycemic fruits, nuts, even low glycemic fruits.

Alcohol, even low/no carb forms (wine is lowish carbs, many hard liquors are zero carb), can be a factor for many. I miss it, but my body feels better without regular alcohol. I may quit it entirely, or may let myself have a drink 1/month or 1/week but probably no more.

Some folks do better on high fat to protein (e.g. keto). I started out that way but my body seems to like higher amounts of protein and not as much fat. This is great as it also lines up with our urban homestead, which can produce eggs and rabbit meat (even leaner than chicken) but not any other animals. Iím still grain, sugar, and starchy veg free and liking it. I personally can tolerate nuts, low carb dairy like cheese and plain Greek yoghurt fine.

What I like about cutting high glycemic carbs out is that, typically, you wonít  need to count calories or track portions to achieve success. Protein and fat satiate much more than other foods, so itís difficult to overeat. The changes to insulin and other related hormones also changes metabolic processes.

But nothing is truly universal. You have to see what works for you.
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BudgetSlasher

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2018, 06:55:38 AM »
I won't argue against exercise, it has health benefits in its own right. But, in terms of pure weight loss, I have found it to be less helpful than portion control. My experience would seem to be backed up by a quick google looking at what calories are burned during periods of exercise (including walking) that are reasonable for most people's schedules.

For me the key has always been portion control. Simply eating less of the same things results in weight loss. How large a reduction depends on how much over-eating is going on. Of course there are certain components that have bigger returns than others.

I've seen too many people try and loose weight by going on a diet that radically changes what they eat with the goal of losing XX pounds; I even tried one once. And the problem is the diet plan often cuts out food you like/love and people just don't find it sustainable. Even when people succeed at losing XX pounds on a more radical diet they discontinue the diet and either slowly or quickly regain the weight. I just don't find these diets plans maintainable.

Of course there are small changes/substitutions that can be permanently made to a one's diet that can help lose weight and keep it off (think leaner meats, lower fat milk, and so on). But, radical diet plans that have you avoiding foods you love, cutting out entire food groups, eating more foods you don't care for seem destine to fail.

Malkynn

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2018, 07:18:23 AM »
Oh and an addendum to my previous post. 14 pounds in a year doesn't sound like much and isn't encouraging for most people to hear. But I've been the same weight for about a decade and started out just a little overweight when I began weighing in. I'm now not in the overweight BMI for the first time in my adult life. And I can still eat stuff I like and drink beer - just a tiny bit less. Shave 300 calories a day somewhere (one less beer and 5 more minutes on a bike, skip a second helping, run a few miles, take the bread off a hamburger), and you'll lose over 2 pounds a month. Again I think it's like a saving a few bucks here and there. It adds up without impacting happiness and before you know it, you've got new habits ingrained and have managed to lose weight.

This is literally exactly how I lost over 70lbs down to a low-healthy BMI of high 19s.
At my heaviest (obese), I started eating the way I would need to to maintain a low healthy weight, and I pretty much effortlessly lost all of the weight while building permanent and sustainable habits, which makes maintaining suuuuper easy, and Iím maintaining a thinner weight now than I was in my 20s before I gained the excess weight in the first place.

I never had to adjust to maintenance because I started with maintenance. Maintenance for a low weight is significantly lower than maintenance for a heavy weight, so it produces a deficit until you get really close to the weight that the intake can maintain.

Simple math. Super easy. Just takes patience.

mjb

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2018, 09:46:06 AM »
Like others have said, you have to find what works for you.

As I am both a volume eater and a snacking machine, I focus on caloric density, meaning that I lean toward foods that have fewer calories per gram. I eat as much fruit and vegetables as I like, then whole grains, starches, and legumes to fill me up. I avoid oil and other processed foods, and limit added sugars. I only eat plants, so no meat, dairy, eggs, etc.

When I'm trying to lose weight (as I am right now), I cut back on nuts, seeds, avocados, bread/pasta, liquid calories (plant milks, smoothies), etc. Doing this, I'm able to eat large amounts of satisfying food while dropping weight pretty easily.

On a typical day while losing weight, I try to keep my meals really simple and do the same thing pretty much every day. The consistency and repetitiveness helps a lot:

  • oats with blueberries + a banana or a mango
  • big-ass salad with cucumber and tomato, dressing of vinegar, mustard, and a little maple syrup
  • ~2-3 lbs of potatoes or sweet potatoes w/ various condiments (mix of ketchup, BBQ sauce, and hot sauce; mustard & sauerkraut; soy sauce, sriracha, garlic)
  • a pile of steamed/roasted vegetables
  • more fruit for snacking if necessary

When I'm more content with my weight, I add back in a wide variety of plant foods.

Eating this way, plus weighing myself everyday, works for me.

Malaysia41

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2018, 10:27:50 AM »
Here's what's working for us:

1. Weigh self every morning.

2. Eat whole food plant based (WFPB) foods - e.g. as outlined in Dr. Greger's How Not to Die book and on his non-profit website nutrionfacts.org and/or the Forks Over Knives plan.

edit: ^ just like what mjb posted while I was typing this up :) .

Within a week of going 100% WFPB, I lost about 5 lbs and have been maintaining my weight at 113-116 lb ever since. This is a weight I feel good at.

My husband lost about 10lbs after going WFPB, but what he likes most is that his recovery time after high exertion running or biking has shrunk from 10 min to less than a minute. He's working out hours every day and loving it. I'm lazier than that though.

Examples of what we eat: potatoes, beans, veggies, fruits, small amounts of high fiber whole grain breads (>20% of the carbs from fiber), tofu, greens, nuts, etc.  Ethiopian, Indian, pizza, etc.  It's pretty much paleo minus the meat. My understanding is that meat and dairy consumption are linked to modern day chronic diseases like hardening of the arteries and T2 diabetes, among other negative effects.

At first I was worried about micronutrients, but we tracked on the cronometer app for a few weeks and get everything we need. For example with calcium, here's what I wrote up in my journal:

Quote
The U.K.ís NHS says I need 700mg Ca per day.  Dr. Greger says I need 600mg.
So, shootiní for 700mg a Day

BREAKFAST:
3/4 c oats     63 mg  Ca
1 orange       74 mg
100g tofu     30 (can be up to 680mg*, but counting only 30 here)
1 tsp turmeric  4 mg
onion slice   2 mg
5 almonds   15 mg
3 walnuts   12 mg
1/2 oz goji berries  14 mg
1/2 oz raisins 7 mg
80g soy yogurt  100 mg
coffee             2 mg
TOTAL BREAKFAST: 323 mg Ca
*(tofu Ca content depends on coagulant agent used. Nigari=30mg,calcium sulfate= ~680 )

LUNCH:
1 c Lentils      37 mg
potato             26 mg
tomatoes         10 mg
80g soy yogurt  100mg
2 large strawberries 6mg
1 oz avocado    4 mg
2 tsp chia       50mg
orange             74mg
TOTAL LUNCH: 307 mg Ca

DINNER:
1 c Lentils      37 mg
potato large   40 mg
tomatoes        10 mg
kale (30g)       42 mg
80g soy yogurt  100mg
1 tbsp chia seed  75mg
TOTAL LUNCH: 304 mg Ca

Grand Total Please Ö
323+307+304: 934 mg Calcium Ė all from eating various plants. No supplements, no nuthiní.

We take a b12 supplement 1x per week.

IMO, this is a diet that's worth trying, and once you get used to it, it's pretty easy to follow habitually.  My cheats are occasional dark chocolate (dairy free), and once in a while I have a cheese-less veggie pizza that's made from refined flour crust.  But refined flour foods don't really even seem like real food to me anymore, so even with pizza I now prefer to go with the whole grain flour crust.

That's my experience at least. YMMV
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 03:11:22 AM by Malaysia41 »
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mm1970

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2018, 09:26:04 AM »
Like others have said, you have to find what works for you.

As I am both a volume eater and a snacking machine, I focus on caloric density, meaning that I lean toward foods that have fewer calories per gram. I eat as much fruit and vegetables as I like, then whole grains, starches, and legumes to fill me up. I avoid oil and other processed foods, and limit added sugars. I only eat plants, so no meat, dairy, eggs, etc.

When I'm trying to lose weight (as I am right now), I cut back on nuts, seeds, avocados, bread/pasta, liquid calories (plant milks, smoothies), etc. Doing this, I'm able to eat large amounts of satisfying food while dropping weight pretty easily.

On a typical day while losing weight, I try to keep my meals really simple and do the same thing pretty much every day. The consistency and repetitiveness helps a lot:

  • oats with blueberries + a banana or a mango
  • big-ass salad with cucumber and tomato, dressing of vinegar, mustard, and a little maple syrup
  • ~2-3 lbs of potatoes or sweet potatoes w/ various condiments (mix of ketchup, BBQ sauce, and hot sauce; mustard & sauerkraut; soy sauce, sriracha, garlic)
  • a pile of steamed/roasted vegetables
  • more fruit for snacking if necessary

When I'm more content with my weight, I add back in a wide variety of plant foods.

Eating this way, plus weighing myself everyday, works for me.
I'm not a vegetarian or vegan, but I wanted to comment on this meal plan.

It's pretty similar to what I eat in a day, in the oatmeal, big ass salad, fruit, a pile of roasted and steamed veggies.

The difference for me is that I'm able to maintain my weight easily (I'm at a healthy weight) by eating more fat and fewer carbs.  If I'm trying to lose weight (let's just say March had a little too much chocolate), then I'll have a carb for breakfast (like oats), and a carb for dinner, but that's it for the day. 

Maintenance I might have an extra carb or two (a muffin, piece of toast, beans or lentils).  For the most part though, as long as I don't hit the chocolate too heavily, weight maintenance is easy - get rid of those 2-3 lbs of potatoes, and sub about an ounce of cheese, an ounce of nuts, an avocado, and some lovely olive-oil based salad dressing.  Basically, I don't skimp on the fat and it keeps me satisfied for hours.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2018, 10:24:48 AM »
You don't want to hear this, but ...

Exercise.  Combination of (1) weight/resistance training - even body-weight exercises such as squats, push-ups, lunges, crunches, triceps dips; and (2) cardio.  2 sessions a week each.  Start with 15-20 minutes per session and space them out over the week.  Cardio on Mon-Thurs and weight/resistance training on Tues-Fri.  Or whatever.  Build up to 3-4 hours per week total.  It's really not much to ask of yourself out of your available 112 waking hours per week, and it's the kindest thing you can ever do for yourself, even if it doesn't feel like it at the time.

This is false.

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/3/16845438/exercise-weight-loss-myth-burn-calories

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11518804/weight-loss-exercise-myth-burn-calories

Diet has a much greater impact on weight loss than exercise according to scientists.
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DarkandStormy

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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2018, 10:28:49 AM »
Some folks do better on high fat to protein (e.g. keto).

This is, as OP mentions at the top, voodoo.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/2/21/16965122/keto-diet-reset

Quote
But if youíre going keto to lose weight, buyer beware: In the long run, it looks a lot like other fad diets.
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Re: Weight Loss Voodoo
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2018, 02:38:58 PM »
Potato diet: https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/health/diet-nutrition/news/a39697/penn-jillette-weight-loss-potato-diet/

This sounds incredibly fun!

Unfortunately,
Quote
Despite the crazy restrictions, Jillette stuck to it, losing 75 pounds in just 83 days without exercising

As others have noted, rapid weight loss like this is actually not a good thing.  Nearly everyone who does a "crash diet" gains all the weight they lost back.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/438395-the-percentage-of-people-who-regain-weight-after-rapid-weight-loss-risks/

Quote
Only 5 percent of people who lose weight on a crash diet will keep the weight off

https://nypost.com/2018/04/10/crash-dieting-might-actually-make-you-gain-weight/

Quote
ďOften, people try to prevent and manage excess weight and obesity by dieting and skipping meals. In the long term, such approaches seem to actually accelerate getting fatter, rather than prevent it,Ē said Kšrkkšinen.
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