Waiting To Get To Know My Wife (Once Again)

[JustPlainBill]

Not bitching, just saying:

Ever since my firstborn (love him to death) landed on this planet 23 years ago, the wife's focus has been 99.99% on the needs/wishes of my crotchfruit.  And the two that followed.  Seems like when we and the Mrs go out on our own, if we don't talk about the kids, we have a lot of dead air.

I know that Moms worry about their spawn forever, I'm 50+ and my mother still treats me like I'm still 13YO.

Any advice from Elder Mustachians on how to re-connect to their wives after two decades of just being the guy that kept the money coming in?

[arebelspy]

Relevant Lifehacker article from yesterday:
http://lifehacker.com/your-partners-likes-and-dislikes-change-over-time-so-k-1673316389

Linking to:
http://www.yourtango.com/experts/drs-chuck-and-jo-ann-bird/dating-tips-married-couples-dos-and-don-ts

[swick]

I can't speak to it personally, but I have seen this situation play our quite a few times. I was just speaking to my cousin (who I haven't seen in person 20 years) and I asked her about her hobbies and interests and she flat out said she didn't know, she didn't have any. She was in a bad relationship and then was a single mom for quite a few years of three children, one autistic. She said she didn't really know herself anymore.

My suggestion would be to choose an activity as a couple to do together that will give you something to talk about (Go take a class on massage for partners?) and have a regular date time scheduled where you do different things together.

Also, give your wife the opportunity to rediscover and get in touch with her passions. The biggest thing here is carving out time. Do some father bonding activities with the kids and tell your wife to go enjoy herself - she may try and resist :) but get her to go (regularly!) and she will come back refreshed and have new ideas and experiences to talk with you about.

[Gray Matter]

DH and were married for 8 years before we had kids, and were really close.  And I didn't realize how much had changed until recently, when we each wrote down our vision for our lives in five years, and mine included things like, "cultivate couple friend" and "cook with  DH" and "develop shared hobbies."  In our case, it wasn't so much that I was 99.99% focused on the kids (because I'm not), but it was more with three kids, three dogs, both of us working full-time, and his being gone a lot for work (international travel), we just do a lot of "divide and conquer."

For us, doing every day things together now that the kids don't require such constant supervision is helpful, things like grocery shopping together, cooking together, gardening/yardwork together, rather than having your own "domains" all the time (not saying you do, but it's easy to fall into that as long-term couples).  Recently, we started going to the gym together before work, and though we go our separate ways while there, just getting there and back together is a few minutes of togetherness at the beginning of our day that is nice.

I don't have a lot of other advice, since we're just finding our way as well.

[ShortInSeattle]

Have you told her you'd like to reconnect? I wonder if she is feeling the same way. :)

[BlueMR2]

Yeah, people's interests definitely change.

I don't spend nearly as much time doing stuff with my wife as I did 5 years ago.  There were several activities we liked to do that brought us together.  Seems like the ones I still like, she doesn't and the ones she likes, I don't anymore.  :-)  We still support each other in those pursuits, it's just we don't do them together anymore...

[EDSMedS]

Have you told her you'd like to reconnect? I wonder if she is feeling the same way. :)

As DW LITERALLY just told me when I hit reply "DO MORE THINGS WITH ME."

I'm not experienced with this exact issue, cause I'm young and have yet to generate CROTCHFRUIT (!), but communication is #1 to a strong relationship.  Tell her, bro, but write it down first and read it out loud to yourself so you can hear if you are being an asshole, which would prevent her from hearing the true message (you LIKE her and want to connect!).

Best of luck.  I'd love to hear how things go.

[Bob W]

Google Willard Harley,  his needs her needs.  You'll find all the answers there.

[jordanread]

Google Willard Harley,  his needs her needs.  You'll find all the answers there.

Excellent book. Basic premise is determine what activities you each value, and focus on those. The Five Love Languages is another one that helps. The questionnaires are very helpful on their own, too.

The 5 Love Languages (PDF)
His Needs, Her Needs - Emotional Needs Questionnaire

P.S. The subtitle of His Needs, Her Needs is "Building an affair proof marriage". This can sometimes turn people off and/or make them defensive. Use caution (or a sharpie)

[JustPlainBill]

Thanks for the good advice and feedback.  Looks like I've got some work to do!

[jordanread]

Thanks for the good advice and feedback.  Looks like I've got some work to do!

It's not work if you make it fun. That would be my other recommendation. Turn these discussions into a date night style of things. No pressure, just getting to know one another.

Also, if you are nervous, or pretend to be, it's always a good way to lighten the mood.

[Spondulix]

I've never heard the term crotchfruit, but it is pure brilliance!

[MrsK]

As someone with older kids, (21 and 15) I can tell you many moms (myself included) get way too wrapped up in their children.  I think it is perhaps instinct and if you are not mindful about it, the kids take over every part of your life.  I have been working quite hard over the past year to let go and start focusing on myself and my wonderful husband.  Your spouse is with you for the whole journey; the kids (if you do it right) should leave the nest and live their own lives. 

The biggest mistake I think I made is just being too involved in every aspect of my kids's lives.  We are sort of marketed to do this.  Being a "good parent" now means playing with your kids when they are little--and by this I mean acting like a playmate.  My parents never sat on the floor and played house or legos with me--they were around and were wonderful, but parenting didn't mean acting like a friend back then.  And then I became my kid's social director and chauffeur, which is crazy!!

My wake up call was helping my oldest apply for college.  It finally dawned on me that unless I let this kid do things for herself (and all by herself) she was going to turn out helpless. 

MMM has helped me to see that less is more when it comes to parenting.  I wish I had done this when they were younger as it has been a very hard year for my oldest as I have changed the dynamic of our relationship. 

[RootofGood]

DH and were married for 8 years before we had kids, and were really close.  And I didn't realize how much had changed until recently, when we each wrote down our vision for our lives in five years, and mine included things like, "cultivate couple friend" and "cook with  DH" and "develop shared hobbies."  In our case, it wasn't so much that I was 99.99% focused on the kids (because I'm not), but it was more with three kids, three dogs, both of us working full-time, and his being gone a lot for work (international travel), we just do a lot of "divide and conquer."

For us, doing every day things together now that the kids don't require such constant supervision is helpful, things like grocery shopping together, cooking together, gardening/yardwork together, rather than having your own "domains" all the time (not saying you do, but it's easy to fall into that as long-term couples).  Recently, we started going to the gym together before work, and though we go our separate ways while there, just getting there and back together is a few minutes of togetherness at the beginning of our day that is nice.

I don't have a lot of other advice, since we're just finding our way as well.

Good tips, thanks.  Mrs. RoG is about to join me in ER and the writing down our visions of life 5 years from now sounds like a good exercise.  I'm all about intentional living and lifestyle design (and have plenty of free time to navel gaze about those topics).  Mrs. RoG has been absorbed in work and raising 3 kids, so not as much introspection. 

It's almost like you have to be schizophrenic to a certain extent.  There's the you you, you as part of a couple with shared interests, and you, the parent, caretaker of the kids.  And you have to nurture each one of those personalities a bit or you go crazy. 

[southern granny]

We have been empty nesters for several years now.  We often have a lot of dead air between us also, but I don't see that as necessarily a bad thing, as long as we are together. It doesn't feel awkward, just comfortable. , We just spent a long weekend at a cabin, with 4 television channels and no Wi-Fi.  We even had to go out into the yard to use the cell phone.  We enjoyed ourselves.  We ate out several times and visited some museums and antique shops.  Try to reconnect as much as you can now,  because when the grandchildren come you are going to have competition again.  Good luck to you.

[greaper007]

What other hobbies and interests do you share?    Could you pursue those things a little more?   

Also, as a non-working spouse I'd get really perturbed if my wife described herself as the one that just keeps the money rolling in.   When I get down on being a stay at home dad she's the first one to point out the difficulties of this job, and the fact that she wouldn't be able to do everything she does in her job if I wasn't holding down the household responsibilities.   We see all of our money as a shared resource earned by both parties.

Beyond that, I've found that couples counseling is extremely helpful.   We went to deal with some extended family issues last year.   We found that we quickly moved into other deep seated issues we hadn't addressed for years.   It was rocky for a few months but we're closer than we've ever been now.   Fights aren't nearly as bad and they're resolved much quicker. 

I think everyone can benefit from occasional therapy.

[greaper007]

Also, don't negate sex.   I consider 3 times a week to be the absolute minimum.   

[Peacefulwarrior]

You knew each other before the children came into this world, and you should be more important to her than your children, given that their most obvious needs like food, shelter and love are being taken care of. Everything else is poison to both the relationship and your childrens upbringing. They need strong united parents. It's no good for them to feel they are the most important thing in the household. The current situation is unacceptable and you need to work it out immediately. Dead air while finally alone is not a good sign. Do you feel deep down that there's still hope you will connect on a spiritual level with her?

[Cassie]

Start taking a daily walk together. There is something about walking that makes it easier to talk about issues.

[Allen]

I feel like your opening paragraph.  My daughter is seven and if I'm honest I have a growing resentment of her because my needs never seem to become important to my wife but every little need she has my wife is all over.  I feel like I come home from work and get yelled at by my daughter, ignored by my wife, and then go to work again. 

It's not healthy to resent a seven year old.  I feel lonely and like I don't belong anywhere.  I *hate* my job but I actually look forward to going there by Sunday evening.

Neither my wife or daughter are bad people or don't love me or anything, I'm just tired of always being unimportant.

[pbkmaine]

Allen, they need to know this. Tell them, as gently as you can.

[Allen]

I have. We go through a cycle every 6-9 months or so, things are better for a few days, and then back to the old patterns.  I don't see much point now.

I will just keep bringing them money.

[JustPlainBill]

Thanks again for the great suggestions.  Some terrific advice that I'll try to put into practice.

Let me clarify -- in my feeble mind, it's my job as a man to keep the dollars coming in, whether or not the rest of the family appreciates the toll that it takes on me.  One day, after I've been long-planted in the ground, maybe they will.  If not, I'll come back and haunt them every night.

In a way, I envy my wife, and yet am proud that I can make it happen.  Kids grow up so damn quick, they're lucky that Mom has been able to be there almost every day to do what Moms are supposed to do.  Once those days are gone, they're gone forever, there's only one time to embrace it, and I made it happen for Her and Them.  But I regret that I haven't had the same opportunity.

I used to think that my Dad was an absolute idiot.  As I grow older (older than he was), I've come to understand and appreciate the day-to-day sacrifice he made to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table.

[Cassie]

Allen, it sounds life your wife is being  "helicopter parent" which is unhealthy for parents & child.  The parents should be the strong family unit that the child orbits around not the other way around.  YOu will be with your spouse forever but kids grow up & leave.  It might be time to explore family counseling to work on some of these issues before they become permanently ingrained.  Good luck:))

[Allen]

Allen, it sounds life your wife is being  "helicopter parent" which is unhealthy for parents & child.  The parents should be the strong family unit that the child orbits around not the other way around.  YOu will be with your spouse forever but kids grow up & leave.  It might be time to explore family counseling to work on some of these issues before they become permanently ingrained.  Good luck:))

I don't want to hijack this thread with my whining but it just feels too late and hopeless. They are happy I'm the miserable one. I'll just keep being the provider, not have the life I want and do my time until I die. I'm pretty sure that is the definition of "a good man".

[greaper007]

Allen, it sounds life your wife is being  "helicopter parent" which is unhealthy for parents & child.  The parents should be the strong family unit that the child orbits around not the other way around.  YOu will be with your spouse forever but kids grow up & leave.  It might be time to explore family counseling to work on some of these issues before they become permanently ingrained.  Good luck:))

I don't want to hijack this thread with my whining but it just feels too late and hopeless. They are happy I'm the miserable one. I'll just keep being the provider, not have the life I want and do my time until I die. I'm pretty sure that is the definition of "a good man".

First, you have to get out of victim mode and into solution mode.    It sounds like there's a breakdown of communication.    I'd really look into therapy, my wife and I did therapy for the second time this past year and it was fantastic.    The key is to have a good therapist that matches the two of you.     My wife is a psychologist and she's the first to say that there has to be a good fit between therapist and client.    Don't be afraid to shop around.

Second, as a stay at home parent I'd resent a partner who thought it was their job to bring home the money.   A household is like any business and everyone plays different roles.   Just because one parent has their name on the check, that doesn't mean the other parent isn't contributing to that income.   Taking care of kids and a house is just as difficult as going to work.    More so in some ways.    I used to be an airline captain, and in many ways it was an easier job than being a stay at home parent.

[lizzie]

Allen, it sounds life your wife is being  "helicopter parent" which is unhealthy for parents & child.  The parents should be the strong family unit that the child orbits around not the other way around.  YOu will be with your spouse forever but kids grow up & leave.  It might be time to explore family counseling to work on some of these issues before they become permanently ingrained.  Good luck:))

I don't want to hijack this thread with my whining but it just feels too late and hopeless. They are happy I'm the miserable one. I'll just keep being the provider, not have the life I want and do my time until I die. I'm pretty sure that is the definition of "a good man".

This is very sad and I'm very sorry you feel this way. It sounds like the two of them have a very tight relationship and you feel like a third wheel. Have you thought about setting aside daddy/daughter time, so that you can cultivate more of a relationship with your child? Besides the obvious benefits, it might also help you feel more like an equal parent with an equal say in raising her, which might help your dynamic with your wife.

[JustPlainBill]

Allen,

I empathize.  I really hope that you can find a way to salvage your relationship with your family.  Although it may seem corny, these two YouTube clips are a source of comfort for me when I'm feeling unappreciated:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7ZHLppS5_w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wOxuFrMP1E

[jordanread]

Allen,

I empathize.  I really hope that you can find a way to salvage your relationship with your family.  Although it may seem corny, these two YouTube clips are a source of comfort for me when I'm feeling unappreciated:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7ZHLppS5_w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wOxuFrMP1E

I didn't watch the videos, but my thoughts are that if one needs to salvage something, it's already at a bad place. Once you accept that, there is no going back, so even if it wasn't at a bad place, it is now.

[Goldielocks]

Allen, it sounds life your wife is being  "helicopter parent" which is unhealthy for parents & child.  The parents should be the strong family unit that the child orbits around not the other way around.  YOu will be with your spouse forever but kids grow up & leave.  It might be time to explore family counseling to work on some of these issues before they become permanently ingrained.  Good luck:))

I don't want to hijack this thread with my whining but it just feels too late and hopeless. They are happy I'm the miserable one. I'll just keep being the provider, not have the life I want and do my time until I die. I'm pretty sure that is the definition of "a good man".

Allen,

Have you tried getting rid of cable?  Turning off the WIFI between 7pm and 9pm?   Just cutting cable has helped my family come closer with no particular effort or obligation on anyone's part.   Add to that I am bored in the evenings, so now I cook (with them), or take them to the library / on errands, sometimes we even play board games... just doing life  stuff.

If your kids have afterschool activities, go with your wife to drop them off / run grocery errands together / pick up daughter, etc.   again.  Just life.

...and it all started with no cable...  hmmm  I wonder what no car would look like...?