Author Topic: United States of Russia?  (Read 18143 times)

Lagom

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #250 on: February 14, 2017, 05:20:04 PM »
I'm not sure I understand the seriousness of the situation.

Flynn, a civilian at the time spoke to Russian ambassador about sanctions.

Apparently it is illegal to do so as a civilian. As prepping for the job, isn't this understandable though?

The conversation led to Putin ultimately not expelling diplomats, and kinda preserved decent diplomatic ties. Is this not desirable?

Apparently he lies to Pence, leading to Pence telling press nothing was discussed regarding sanctions.

What difference does it make really?

Am I missing something? Is there some sort of lynchpin that ties it all together?  Perhaps I'm used to public officials getting away with at worse, but this seems pretty minor.

You think negotiating away a policy stance of the sitting government while you are a private citizen is minor? Yes, I think you are missing something.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #251 on: February 14, 2017, 05:40:34 PM »
I think Paul Manafort was the first case of confirmed collusion.

Remember back when republicans pretended to be outraged by perceived mishandling of classified information?  Trump just had a top secret diplomatic meeting in a public place, and his national security advisor committed treason and then lied to the administration about it.

This whole thing shades of Watergate and Iran-Contra.  What is it about republican administrations that causes them to so flagrantly break the law in pursuit of more executive power?  Why do people who profess patriotism so actively undermine American ideals?

Just to add a little fuel to the fire, here's a quote from Rand Paul, basically saying that investigations are only useful if they don't involve Republicans, or get in the way of getting rid of Obamacare.
Quote
And while several other Republican senators have called for investigation of the incident, Paul said it would not make sense to have more investigations, especially of fellow Republicans.
"I just don't think it's useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party. We'll never even get started with doing the things we need to do, like repealing Obamacare, if we're spending our whole time having Republicans investigate Republicans. I think it makes no sense."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/14/politics/kfile-rand-paul-republican-investigations/index.html

FFS, how can anybody take the GOP seriously at this point?

Johnez

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #252 on: February 15, 2017, 03:46:40 AM »

You think negotiating away a policy stance of the sitting government while you are a private citizen is minor? Yes, I think you are missing something.

What do you know of Flynn's conversation and what he gave away. Go share your info with the press.

***

Surprised this didn't make it in the thread, this is pretty "holy freaking shit, Trump and our adversary Russian actually were in cahoots." This is disturbing. This needs to be broadcast through every television screen and radio:

Quote
WASHINGTON — Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election, according to four current and former American officials

Quote
The call logs and intercepted communications are part of a larger trove of information that the F.B.I. is sifting through as it investigates the links between Mr. Trump’s associates and the Russian government, as well as the hacking of the D.N.C., according to federal law enforcement officials. As part of its inquiry, the F.B.I. has obtained banking and travel records and conducted interviews, the officials said.

Quote
The White House also declined to comment Tuesday night, but earlier in the day, the press secretary, Sean Spicer, stood by Mr. Trump’s previous comments that nobody from his campaign had contact with Russian officials before the election.

In other words, "in our alternate fact based universe, nothing happened."

Bonus quote from Manafort:

Quote
“It’s not like these people wear badges that say, ‘I’m a Russian intelligence officer.’”


Kris

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #253 on: February 15, 2017, 06:00:43 AM »
That last Manafort quote was absolutely infuriating. Translation: We can't be expected to consider the possibility that not everyone from Russia is telling us the complete truth when they talk to us.

Holy fucking shit, dude.
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BeginnerStache

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #254 on: February 15, 2017, 07:08:33 AM »
Well, it's confirmed that Russia has tested a missile they previously denied building and is against the Cold War treaty they signed with the US. Now they have confirmed spy ships off the east coast of the US.

They are testing Trump big time. Wonder if he'll ignore it and play it off out of fear of Russia spilling the beans on him. Is it too early to start thanking Trump voters for this mess? I mean it's not like the writing was on the wall or anything.

Make America Russia Great Again!

Kris

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #255 on: February 15, 2017, 08:09:48 AM »
Well, it's confirmed that Russia has tested a missile they previously denied building and is against the Cold War treaty they signed with the US. Now they have confirmed spy ships off the east coast of the US.

They are testing Trump big time. Wonder if he'll ignore it and play it off out of fear of Russia spilling the beans on him. Is it too early to start thanking Trump voters for this mess? I mean it's not like the writing was on the wall or anything.

Make America Russia Great Again!

He'll ignore it. I'd bet money.
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GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #256 on: February 15, 2017, 08:10:17 AM »
They are testing Trump big time. Wonder if he'll ignore it and play it off out of fear of Russia spilling the beans on him.

I appreciate the optimism inherent in your assumption that this wasn't part of Trump's plan all along.

Kris

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #257 on: February 15, 2017, 09:16:08 AM »
By the way, here's a timeline that the NYT put together, of what we know right now.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/14/us/politics/flynn-call-russia-timeline.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur
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Lagom

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #258 on: February 15, 2017, 09:57:21 AM »

You think negotiating away a policy stance of the sitting government while you are a private citizen is minor? Yes, I think you are missing something.

What do you know of Flynn's conversation and what he gave away. Go share your info with the press.

OK you're right I overstated what we definitively know. Doesn't change the fact that it's most certainly a big deal for a citizen with a different agenda than the sitting government, and without any approval whatsoever from them, to officially discuss policy with foreign governments, especially when it's something like sanctions. But as you say, it's merely the tip of the iceberg.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #259 on: February 15, 2017, 12:53:00 PM »
Well, it's confirmed that Russia has tested a missile they previously denied building and is against the Cold War treaty they signed with the US. Now they have confirmed spy ships off the east coast of the US.

They are testing Trump big time. Wonder if he'll ignore it and play it off out of fear of Russia spilling the beans on him. Is it too early to start thanking Trump voters for this mess? I mean it's not like the writing was on the wall or anything.

Make America Russia Great Again!

He'll ignore it. I'd bet money.

I'd bet money also.  Wondering how long it will take for a story will break on the $19B Rosneft deal and how Trump has his hands all over it. 

Moustaches

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #260 on: February 15, 2017, 01:04:10 PM »
Well, it's confirmed that Russia has tested a missile they previously denied building and is against the Cold War treaty they signed with the US. Now they have confirmed spy ships off the east coast of the US.

They are testing Trump big time. Wonder if he'll ignore it and play it off out of fear of Russia spilling the beans on him. Is it too early to start thanking Trump voters for this mess? I mean it's not like the writing was on the wall or anything.

Make America Russia Great Again!

He'll ignore it. I'd bet money.

I'd bet money also.  Wondering how long it will take for a story will break on the $19B Rosneft deal and how Trump has his hands all over it.

The Rosneft deal is explicitly mentioned in the Steele Dossier.  As is the Flynn conversation.  In addition, the Russian source of the dossier is dead.  And Steele is still in hiding.  It was widely panned as "fake news" at the time, due to incredible cognitive dissonance of Trump voters at the time.  When will the Trump voters stand up and realize that they elected someone who conspired with Russia to win the Presidency?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-fates-of-5-men-connected-to-the-trump-russia-dossier_us_589f5472e4b080bf74f03cd6

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BeginnerStache

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #261 on: February 15, 2017, 01:16:01 PM »
Well, it's confirmed that Russia has tested a missile they previously denied building and is against the Cold War treaty they signed with the US. Now they have confirmed spy ships off the east coast of the US.

They are testing Trump big time. Wonder if he'll ignore it and play it off out of fear of Russia spilling the beans on him. Is it too early to start thanking Trump voters for this mess? I mean it's not like the writing was on the wall or anything.

Make America Russia Great Again!

He'll ignore it. I'd bet money.

I'd bet money also.  Wondering how long it will take for a story will break on the $19B Rosneft deal and how Trump has his hands all over it.

The Rosneft deal is explicitly mentioned in the Steele Dossier.  As is the Flynn conversation.  In addition, the Russian source of the dossier is dead.  And Steele is still in hiding.  It was widely panned as "fake news" at the time, due to incredible cognitive dissonance of Trump voters at the time.  When will the Trump voters stand up and realize that they elected someone who conspired with Russia to win the Presidency?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-fates-of-5-men-connected-to-the-trump-russia-dossier_us_589f5472e4b080bf74f03cd6

Never. I still see folks saying "Well at least we don't have Hillary...." The idiot could start a nuclear war with millions dying and they would still be clinging to the "At least it's not Hillary...."

Chris22

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #262 on: February 15, 2017, 01:26:29 PM »
I don't know too much about all this since I haven't been following it, but it would seem that nuclear war is sort of the OPPOSITE potential outcome, no?  Isn't the problem that Trump's administration has gotten too cozy with Russia, not antagonistic?
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Kris

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #263 on: February 15, 2017, 01:33:41 PM »
Well, it's confirmed that Russia has tested a missile they previously denied building and is against the Cold War treaty they signed with the US. Now they have confirmed spy ships off the east coast of the US.

They are testing Trump big time. Wonder if he'll ignore it and play it off out of fear of Russia spilling the beans on him. Is it too early to start thanking Trump voters for this mess? I mean it's not like the writing was on the wall or anything.

Make America Russia Great Again!

He'll ignore it. I'd bet money.

I'd bet money also.  Wondering how long it will take for a story will break on the $19B Rosneft deal and how Trump has his hands all over it.

The Rosneft deal is explicitly mentioned in the Steele Dossier.  As is the Flynn conversation.  In addition, the Russian source of the dossier is dead.  And Steele is still in hiding.  It was widely panned as "fake news" at the time, due to incredible cognitive dissonance of Trump voters at the time.  When will the Trump voters stand up and realize that they elected someone who conspired with Russia to win the Presidency?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-fates-of-5-men-connected-to-the-trump-russia-dossier_us_589f5472e4b080bf74f03cd6

They will not. The "news" sources they consume will never tell them this -- or else, will couch it as a liberal conspiracy. They will not hear it and understand how absolutely mind-boggling this is. They've been conditioned not to.
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Moustaches

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #264 on: February 15, 2017, 01:38:53 PM »
Well, it's confirmed that Russia has tested a missile they previously denied building and is against the Cold War treaty they signed with the US. Now they have confirmed spy ships off the east coast of the US.

They are testing Trump big time. Wonder if he'll ignore it and play it off out of fear of Russia spilling the beans on him. Is it too early to start thanking Trump voters for this mess? I mean it's not like the writing was on the wall or anything.

Make America Russia Great Again!

He'll ignore it. I'd bet money.

I'd bet money also.  Wondering how long it will take for a story will break on the $19B Rosneft deal and how Trump has his hands all over it.

The Rosneft deal is explicitly mentioned in the Steele Dossier.  As is the Flynn conversation.  In addition, the Russian source of the dossier is dead.  And Steele is still in hiding.  It was widely panned as "fake news" at the time, due to incredible cognitive dissonance of Trump voters at the time.  When will the Trump voters stand up and realize that they elected someone who conspired with Russia to win the Presidency?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-fates-of-5-men-connected-to-the-trump-russia-dossier_us_589f5472e4b080bf74f03cd6

They will not. The "news" sources they consume will never tell them this -- or else, will couch it as a liberal conspiracy. They will not hear it and understand how absolutely mind-boggling this is. They've been conditioned not to.

Also, the probability that the golden shower story is true increases with every claim in the Steele Dossier that is backed up by evidence.  Aside from the hilarious nature of that, it is truly disturbing that the Russians could be threatening the release of this tape to Trump at any time, so they are now free to invade Eastern Europe.  Oh yeah, they ended the Ukraine ceasefire.

All facts are slowly materializing...
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Moustaches

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #265 on: February 15, 2017, 01:43:04 PM »
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Unique User

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #266 on: February 15, 2017, 02:12:39 PM »
Another claim in the Steele Dossier comes true.  I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Dossier is true folks:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/02/15/mattis-trumps-defense-secretary-issues-ultimatum-to-nato-allies-on-defense-spending/?utm_term=.604ebf6b3dea

Is there anywhere that summarizes the key points in the Dossier?  I want to be able to call my senators and rep on this, one of my senators is on the Senate Intelligence Committee. 

Moustaches

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #267 on: February 15, 2017, 02:52:43 PM »
Another claim in the Steele Dossier comes true.  I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Dossier is true folks:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/02/15/mattis-trumps-defense-secretary-issues-ultimatum-to-nato-allies-on-defense-spending/?utm_term=.604ebf6b3dea

Is there anywhere that summarizes the key points in the Dossier?  I want to be able to call my senators and rep on this, one of my senators is on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

This one is pretty good:

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-russia-ties-michael-flynn-dossier-2017-2

I would tell your senator that they should investigate whether a quid pro quo was developed between the Trump campaign to end the Russian sanctions and to weaken Nato commitments in order for Russia to help Trump win the election.

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Lagom

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #268 on: February 15, 2017, 03:02:52 PM »
I find it interesting at how well Pence has been shielded from all of this thus far. By all accounts he has been highly involved in most major decisions, and yet somehow the narrative we are to believe is that he has been kept in the dark on anything related to the Russia situation? I'm open to him truly being innocent here, but I would hope he is investigated as thoroughly as the rest. Not that I think this would happen (nor is this really a great outcome either), but President Paul Ryan, anyone? The RNC would be thrilled, at the least.

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #269 on: February 15, 2017, 03:12:20 PM »
I find it interesting at how well Pence has been shielded from all of this thus far. By all accounts he has been highly involved in most major decisions, and yet somehow the narrative we are to believe is that he has been kept in the dark on anything related to the Russia situation? I'm open to him truly being innocent here, but I would hope he is investigated as thoroughly as the rest. Not that I think this would happen (nor is this really a great outcome either), but President Paul Ryan, anyone? The RNC would be thrilled, at the least.

It makes sense for the GOP to shield Pence as much as possible, in case they do have to remove Trump.  Pence himself is of course fantasizing about this outcome.

It's an interesting narrative, being the mirror image of what happened with Nixon and Agnew in 1973, where Agnew went down to protect the president.

Kris

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #270 on: February 15, 2017, 03:16:55 PM »
I find it interesting at how well Pence has been shielded from all of this thus far. By all accounts he has been highly involved in most major decisions, and yet somehow the narrative we are to believe is that he has been kept in the dark on anything related to the Russia situation? I'm open to him truly being innocent here, but I would hope he is investigated as thoroughly as the rest. Not that I think this would happen (nor is this really a great outcome either), but President Paul Ryan, anyone? The RNC would be thrilled, at the least.

It makes sense for the GOP to shield Pence as much as possible, in case they do have to remove Trump.  Pence himself is of course fantasizing about this outcome.

It's an interesting narrative, being the mirror image of what happened with Nixon and Agnew in 1973, where Agnew went down to protect the president.

Yup. I have this constant image of Mike Pence riding a roller-coaster, white-knuckling the whole thing, just waiting for it to stop and hoping he'll still be in the car when it does.
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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #271 on: February 15, 2017, 11:34:37 PM »
I don't know too much about all this since I haven't been following it, but it would seem that nuclear war is sort of the OPPOSITE potential outcome, no?  Isn't the problem that Trump's administration has gotten too cozy with Russia, not antagonistic?
This was my thought. Somehow Trump ignoring Russia will lead the US to nuclear war? Doesn't connect - which is why all the persons who hyperventilated about nuclear war ignored your question.

I think the more likely scenario (assuming this whole mess plays out with Trump ignoring Russia because they are blackmailing/bribing him) is that Russia is free to walk all over smaller European states and flout other international rules, which while not nuclear war, is still quite serious.
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Lagom

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #272 on: February 15, 2017, 11:54:04 PM »
I don't know too much about all this since I haven't been following it, but it would seem that nuclear war is sort of the OPPOSITE potential outcome, no?  Isn't the problem that Trump's administration has gotten too cozy with Russia, not antagonistic?
This was my thought. Somehow Trump ignoring Russia will lead the US to nuclear war? Doesn't connect - which is why all the persons who hyperventilated about nuclear war ignored your question.

I think the more likely scenario (assuming this whole mess plays out with Trump ignoring Russia because they are blackmailing/bribing him) is that Russia is free to walk all over smaller European states and flout other international rules, which while not nuclear war, is still quite serious.

I don't think anyone worrying about nuclear war is worrying about it happening with Russia. Trump loves Russia, why would he go to war with them? I also think most would agree with your latter supposition.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #273 on: February 16, 2017, 05:12:30 AM »
I don't know too much about all this since I haven't been following it, but it would seem that nuclear war is sort of the OPPOSITE potential outcome, no?  Isn't the problem that Trump's administration has gotten too cozy with Russia, not antagonistic?
This was my thought. Somehow Trump ignoring Russia will lead the US to nuclear war? Doesn't connect - which is why all the persons who hyperventilated about nuclear war ignored your question.

I think the more likely scenario (assuming this whole mess plays out with Trump ignoring Russia because they are blackmailing/bribing him) is that Russia is free to walk all over smaller European states and flout other international rules, which while not nuclear war, is still quite serious.

Umm nuclear was brought up as an example of the willingness of how far Trump's die hard supporters would go to continue deflecting to Hillary. I don't think there was a question anywhere about starting nuclear war or a suggestion Trump was going to start a nuclear war.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #274 on: February 16, 2017, 07:03:18 AM »
I don't know too much about all this since I haven't been following it, but it would seem that nuclear war is sort of the OPPOSITE potential outcome, no?  Isn't the problem that Trump's administration has gotten too cozy with Russia, not antagonistic?
This was my thought. Somehow Trump ignoring Russia will lead the US to nuclear war? Doesn't connect - which is why all the persons who hyperventilated about nuclear war ignored your question.

I think the more likely scenario (assuming this whole mess plays out with Trump ignoring Russia because they are blackmailing/bribing him) is that Russia is free to walk all over smaller European states and flout other international rules, which while not nuclear war, is still quite serious.

Umm nuclear was brought up as an example of the willingness of how far Trump's die hard supporters would go to continue deflecting to Hillary. I don't think there was a question anywhere about starting nuclear war or a suggestion Trump was going to start a nuclear war.

I do see Trump's policy as a nuclear threat, albeit a delayed one.

Capitulating over and over will keep Russia happy, absolutely.  The threat happens if they get used to America doing this, and then either this or a different administration at some point decides to stand up to them.  The greater that Russia's reach and power becomes, the greater the chance that the US will feel the need to stand up to them . . . and the greater the risk of nuclear conflict in my opinion.

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #275 on: February 16, 2017, 08:37:36 AM »
Does anyone here think that Russia would have a warship off the coast of Connecticut today if Hillary Clinton were President?

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #276 on: February 16, 2017, 09:50:30 AM »
I don't know too much about all this since I haven't been following it, but it would seem that nuclear war is sort of the OPPOSITE potential outcome, no?  Isn't the problem that Trump's administration has gotten too cozy with Russia, not antagonistic?

But Trump could nuke Iran. I doubt we'd ever go to war directly with Russia especially with Trump's connections there. I could see a proxy war though anywhere on the globe.

How many proxy wars has the Americans and Russians participated in at odd with each other. Meanwhile alot of people die and both super powers come away with lots of new military toys at great expense and justification to buy more war toys.

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #277 on: February 16, 2017, 09:52:27 AM »
I find it interesting at how well Pence has been shielded from all of this thus far. By all accounts he has been highly involved in most major decisions, and yet somehow the narrative we are to believe is that he has been kept in the dark on anything related to the Russia situation? I'm open to him truly being innocent here, but I would hope he is investigated as thoroughly as the rest. Not that I think this would happen (nor is this really a great outcome either), but President Paul Ryan, anyone? The RNC would be thrilled, at the least.

Th ways things are going - I might be thrilled with a President paul Ryan. (I have not voted Republican for a long, long time).

BeginnerStache

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #278 on: February 16, 2017, 09:54:49 AM »
Does anyone here think that Russia would have a warship off the coast of Connecticut today if Hillary Clinton were President?

Maybe it's positioning itself to get ready to take Trump back to his homeland. We can only hope.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #279 on: February 16, 2017, 10:06:31 AM »
Does anyone here think that Russia would have a warship off the coast of Connecticut today if Hillary Clinton were President?

Maybe it's positioning itself to get ready to take Trump back to his homeland. We can only hope.

They were just stopping by to drop off a check for Manafort (or was it Flynn? or was it Tillerman? or was it Flynn, or was it....?

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #280 on: February 16, 2017, 07:45:56 PM »
Does anyone here think that Russia would have a warship off the coast of Connecticut today if Hillary Clinton were President?

They had them off the coast while Obama was president. The last time this ship was off the coast was in 2015... So yes, people who study these things think that there would be a spy ship off the coast if Clinton were president.  People who don't know anything about international affairs with Russia may think differently. But the truth is, the Russians aren't coming.

Ignore that spy ship off the coast

« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 07:48:17 PM by Metric Mouse »
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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #281 on: February 16, 2017, 07:56:55 PM »
Does anyone here think that Russia would have a warship off the coast of Connecticut today if Hillary Clinton were President?

Maybe it's positioning itself to get ready to take Trump back to his homeland. We can only hope.
Ha. I think to get Trump back to where he fits in will take something with a lot more range than a ship...
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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #282 on: February 17, 2017, 07:34:53 AM »
Does anyone here think that Russia would have a warship off the coast of Connecticut today if Hillary Clinton were President?
Yes. Countries with the capability to have ISR assets active all the time. Russia has always collected on the US and will continue to regardless of who the president is. The same is true for the US. The US has had ISR assets active literally 24/7 365 for the past 50+ years. 

GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #283 on: February 19, 2017, 03:35:09 PM »
Does anyone here think that Russia would have a warship off the coast of Connecticut today if Hillary Clinton were President?
Yes. Countries with the capability to have ISR assets active all the time. Russia has always collected on the US and will continue to regardless of who the president is. The same is true for the US. The US has had ISR assets active literally 24/7 365 for the past 50+ years.

I'd posit that a warship would be more likely with Clinton as president than now.  There's less urgency associated with spying on the US when you've already bought and paid for the president.

DoubleDown

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #284 on: February 20, 2017, 08:57:14 AM »
U.S. President Donald J. Trump's statement during his press conference on the Russian ship off the U.S. coast:

    "The greatest thing I could do is shoot that ship that’s 30 miles off shore right out of the water. Everyone in this country’s going to say, ‘Oh, it’s so great.’ That’s not great. That’s not great."

F'ing moron, literally NO ONE with half a brain would say that.
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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #285 on: February 20, 2017, 09:09:46 AM »
U.S. President Donald J. Trump's statement during his press conference on the Russian ship off the U.S. coast:

    "The greatest thing I could do is shoot that ship that’s 30 miles off shore right out of the water. Everyone in this country’s going to say, ‘Oh, it’s so great.’ That’s not great. That’s not great."

F'ing moron, literally NO ONE with half a brain would say that.

Well, to be fair, a lot of his supporters probably would say that, if he told them it was great.
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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #286 on: February 20, 2017, 03:16:51 PM »
The only other naval situations I recall reading about regularly have commonly been between China and the US in the South China sea. 30 miles out is still international waters. Being so close to the US cost is certainly provocative, but I don't believe it is uncommon for China and Russia to test our military response with each new administration to determine temperament and gauge possible responses if they were to go further.

Do military drills and flybys of our naval vessels are also a typical form of posturing which we typically respond to in kind. I am very poorly versed in the recent history of such behaviors but I would imagine this is in line with our current adversarial situation with countries like Russia. And that while we may still be far from at war with them we are in a cold war like state with them.

I would be somewhat surprised if Trump doesn't simply defer to Republicans and the generals on their responses to such encounters. If he overrules standard procedure in favor of a softer stance it could easily ratchet up the calls for investigation and impeachment over dealings between his campaign and Russia. Republicans are generally not soft when it comes to Putin's Russia our our commitment to maintaining the current world order.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #287 on: February 20, 2017, 08:41:22 PM »
Russia is apparently compiling a psychological dossier on Trump and I presume they will test him bigly. The latest Foreign Policy article on Trump/Russia was pessimistic on the notion any great improvement could be achieved by the new administration given the antagonistic nature of each country's objectives and current facts on the ground.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #288 on: February 21, 2017, 04:24:04 PM »
I am confident the Russian's more than most size up every incoming President to the highest degree possible. The Russian media campaign to pit themselves against Western powers as hero's struggling to preserve their great people is a non stop propaganda machine.

Trump playing into their propaganda is just icing on the cake and we should investigate the shit out of him as anyone who so casually flirts with their rhetoric is at best a security risks with regards to maintaining a strong opposition stance to Russia's absurd leadership.

Why any leader would be stupid enough to compare US to Russia, where literally all of their television and media are 100% state controlled is beyond me.

The only saving grace is that I know the majority of the Republican leadership and all the old generals he is appointing don't have a soft spot for Russian leadership unless a handful of them are legitimately corrupted by the Kremlin.

I make sure to say opposition to the Russian leadership, because in general even given the dire state of Russian media. Russia still has a middle class and its citizens are still often good, live well, are worldly and well informed. Though at the same time, somewhat paradoxically and mostly due to decades of propaganda, Putin is remains popular.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #289 on: February 22, 2017, 01:06:14 PM »
U.S. President Donald J. Trump's statement during his press conference on the Russian ship off the U.S. coast:

    "The greatest thing I could do is shoot that ship that’s 30 miles off shore right out of the water. Everyone in this country’s going to say, ‘Oh, it’s so great.’ That’s not great. That’s not great."

F'ing moron, literally NO ONE with half a brain would say that.

Well, to be fair, a lot of his supporters probably would say that, if he told them it was great.

Yes, that's why I put in the "with half a brain" caveat ;-)
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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #290 on: February 24, 2017, 10:51:22 PM »
Trump playing into their propaganda is just icing on the cake and we should investigate the shit out of him as anyone who so casually flirts with their rhetoric is at best a security risks with regards to maintaining a strong opposition stance to Russia's absurd leadership.
Yes, thank god Trump hasn't done something that would truly play into their propaganda like "resetting their relationship with the U.S." Could you imagine how something as silly as that would appear when filtered through their media! A complete security nightmare for the entire country!
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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #291 on: March 02, 2017, 05:12:17 AM »
So it appears Session's Russian connection is a bust. NY Times and WaPo have both picked the story up and ran with the angle that he "denied" Russian contact, yet the questions asked were pretty specific:

Quote
In January, Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) asked Sessions for answers to written questions. “Several of the President-elect’s nominees or senior advisers have Russian ties. Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?” Leahy wrote.

Sessions responded with one word: “No.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sessions-spoke-twice-with-russian-ambassador-during-trumps-presidential-campaign-justice-officials-say/2017/03/01/77205eda-feac-11e6-99b4-9e613afeb09f_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_no-name%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.c83bd09547ed

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #292 on: March 02, 2017, 05:35:23 AM »
So it appears Session's Russian connection is a bust. NY Times and WaPo have both picked the story up and ran with the angle that he "denied" Russian contact, yet the questions asked were pretty specific:

Quote
In January, Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) asked Sessions for answers to written questions. “Several of the President-elect’s nominees or senior advisers have Russian ties. Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?” Leahy wrote.

Sessions responded with one word: “No.”
Sessions' response in the oral hearings did not contain that qualification.  He specifically said "I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians and I am unable to comment."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sessions-spoke-twice-with-russian-ambassador-during-trumps-presidential-campaign-justice-officials-say/2017/03/01/77205eda-feac-11e6-99b4-9e613afeb09f_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_no-name%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.c83bd09547ed
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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #293 on: March 02, 2017, 09:39:51 AM »
So it appears Session's Russian connection is a bust. NY Times and WaPo have both picked the story up and ran with the angle that he "denied" Russian contact, yet the questions asked were pretty specific:

Quote
In January, Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) asked Sessions for answers to written questions. “Several of the President-elect’s nominees or senior advisers have Russian ties. Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?” Leahy wrote.

Sessions responded with one word: “No.”
Sessions' response in the oral hearings did not contain that qualification.  He specifically said "I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians and I am unable to comment."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sessions-spoke-twice-with-russian-ambassador-during-trumps-presidential-campaign-justice-officials-say/2017/03/01/77205eda-feac-11e6-99b4-9e613afeb09f_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_no-name%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.c83bd09547ed

This is correct. Sessions clearly lied to congress, even though he didn't actually have to within the confines of the question.

dogboyslim

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #294 on: March 02, 2017, 04:06:46 PM »
So it appears Session's Russian connection is a bust. NY Times and WaPo have both picked the story up and ran with the angle that he "denied" Russian contact, yet the questions asked were pretty specific:

Quote
In January, Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) asked Sessions for answers to written questions. “Several of the President-elect’s nominees or senior advisers have Russian ties. Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?” Leahy wrote.

Sessions responded with one word: “No.”

Sessions' response in the oral hearings did not contain that qualification.  He specifically said "I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians and I am unable to comment."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sessions-spoke-twice-with-russian-ambassador-during-trumps-presidential-campaign-justice-officials-say/2017/03/01/77205eda-feac-11e6-99b4-9e613afeb09f_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_no-name%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.c83bd09547ed

This is correct. Sessions clearly lied to congress, even though he didn't actually have to within the confines of the question.
I don't think you can say he clearly lied.  The question was related to the campaign, so the context of the question still has the qualifier of being related to the campaign.  Maybe he lied, maybe he didn't.  Its not clear to me.  At any rate, this story is now dead thanks to our friendly MO senator.

Johnez

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #295 on: March 02, 2017, 05:24:34 PM »
Maybe you can sympathize with another situation:

After getting groceries-
Did you go to the store to buy booze?
No.

A loaded question like this is likely to bring a perfectly truthful answer-and a reticent attitude about offering more info than asked. Did they ask the same question regarding the other 20 or 30 countries he met with as a part of his current assignment that requires interaction with foreign countries?

It feels like a gotcha situation and is totally worthless except to score a point. He's since recused himself, smart.

Just FYI, I voted against Trump. I just recognize a weak position when I see it. If I can see the way this is playing out, the way the elites are using underhanded tactics to undermine our leader, how do ya think the rest of the country feels-ya know the ones who voted for him. It's time to let go of worthless angles and stick to the important issues. Yes, this Russia thing is serious, but can you truthfully say the administration has acted treacherously so far? It is all supposition, WEAK and will backfire.




Lagom

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #296 on: March 02, 2017, 05:27:27 PM »
I don't think you can say he clearly lied.  The question was related to the campaign, so the context of the question still has the qualifier of being related to the campaign.  Maybe he lied, maybe he didn't.  Its not clear to me.  At any rate, this story is now dead thanks to our friendly MO senator.

Yes, the question was related to the campaign, but this is the direct quote: "I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians.

Since he did have communications with the Russians, he was unequivocally lying. It doesn't matter what the context of the question was.

If it was a "gotcha" situation, he could easily have clarified long before now.

Metric Mouse

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #297 on: March 02, 2017, 07:31:30 PM »
Well Sessions recused himself from any investigations into Russian election interference.  If there ever is such an investigation.
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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #298 on: March 03, 2017, 04:04:37 AM »
According to this (segment starting at 24.40) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J4FfVJnAuM

1.  The FBI knew before Sessions was confirmed that he had lied on oath to Congress - because they had been investigating his contacts with Russia from before his confirmation hearings - and did not tell Congress.

2.  FBI Director Comey is refusing to co-operate with the Congress investigation into Trump's ties with Russia, and Congress are contemplating subpoenaing him.

Jesus Christ, what the fuck is going on?  Has the FBI been compromised by the Russians?
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BeginnerStache

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #299 on: March 03, 2017, 05:44:13 AM »
According to this (segment starting at 24.40) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J4FfVJnAuM

1.  The FBI knew before Sessions was confirmed that he had lied on oath to Congress - because they had been investigating his contacts with Russia from before his confirmation hearings - and did not tell Congress.

2.  FBI Director Comey is refusing to co-operate with the Congress investigation into Trump's ties with Russia, and Congress are contemplating subpoenaing him.

Jesus Christ, what the fuck is going on?  Has the FBI been compromised by the Russians?

Trump's administration is a gigantic shit sandwich.