Author Topic: United States of Russia?  (Read 200601 times)

Kris

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1450 on: March 13, 2018, 10:49:22 AM »
So what does it mean that the administration is jettisoning Tillerson and replacing him with Pompeo? There have been rumors of conflict between Tillerson and Trump for a while now, but the timing is interesting considering the recent diplomacy talks announced between the U.S. and North Korea.

My guess is/was - and Trump mentioned it - the Iran deal, and probable trade deals are on the chopping block. Tillerson was more "establishment," if you want to use that term. Pompeo seems a bit more "extreme" aka more in line with what Trump thinks - cut trade deals, cut the Iran deal, etc. Obviously Pompeo needs to be confirmed, but I don't see why he wouldn't be, unfortunately.

Dems will certainly use this as a way of highlighting Pomeo's connection with torture and extreme interrogation techniques.  They wil do this to further paint this administration as one which violates common decency (even though Pompeo's been through multiple administrations). The hearings will be in the headlines for a while and make a bunch of people squeemish about this man leading the bureau which deals with all foreign nations... but yeah, in the end he'll most likely get confirmed unless he withdraws his name and/or DJT falls out of favor with him (either of which is possible with this administration).

Yeah. Because Trump's base actively thinks it's GOOD that with Trump we're tending toward authoritarianism and have no problems using torture ourselves and condoning it in other authoritarian regimes. And Democrats will yell about it, but ultimately they won't be able to do anything about it. And frankly, I'm not even sure they have backbone to stop his confirmation even if they controlled both houses.

GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1451 on: March 13, 2018, 11:27:46 AM »
So what does it mean that the administration is jettisoning Tillerson and replacing him with Pompeo? There have been rumors of conflict between Tillerson and Trump for a while now, but the timing is interesting considering the recent diplomacy talks announced between the U.S. and North Korea.

My guess is/was - and Trump mentioned it - the Iran deal, and probable trade deals are on the chopping block. Tillerson was more "establishment," if you want to use that term. Pompeo seems a bit more "extreme" aka more in line with what Trump thinks - cut trade deals, cut the Iran deal, etc. Obviously Pompeo needs to be confirmed, but I don't see why he wouldn't be, unfortunately.

Dems will certainly use this as a way of highlighting Pomeo's connection with torture and extreme interrogation techniques.  They wil do this to further paint this administration as one which violates common decency (even though Pompeo's been through multiple administrations). The hearings will be in the headlines for a while and make a bunch of people squeemish about this man leading the bureau which deals with all foreign nations... but yeah, in the end he'll most likely get confirmed unless he withdraws his name and/or DJT falls out of favor with him (either of which is possible with this administration).

Yeah. Because Trump's base actively thinks it's GOOD that with Trump we're tending toward authoritarianism and have no problems using torture ourselves and condoning it in other authoritarian regimes. And Democrats will yell about it, but ultimately they won't be able to do anything about it. And frankly, I'm not even sure they have backbone to stop his confirmation even if they controlled both houses.

To be fair, Americans in general don't really seem to care about torture or other war crimes perpetrated on brown people with foreign sounding names.  There has been no serious push to close Guantanamo bay or halt extrajudicial drone strikes from either party because there's little outrage at what's happening.

Kris

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1452 on: March 13, 2018, 12:20:13 PM »
So what does it mean that the administration is jettisoning Tillerson and replacing him with Pompeo? There have been rumors of conflict between Tillerson and Trump for a while now, but the timing is interesting considering the recent diplomacy talks announced between the U.S. and North Korea.

My guess is/was - and Trump mentioned it - the Iran deal, and probable trade deals are on the chopping block. Tillerson was more "establishment," if you want to use that term. Pompeo seems a bit more "extreme" aka more in line with what Trump thinks - cut trade deals, cut the Iran deal, etc. Obviously Pompeo needs to be confirmed, but I don't see why he wouldn't be, unfortunately.

Dems will certainly use this as a way of highlighting Pomeo's connection with torture and extreme interrogation techniques.  They wil do this to further paint this administration as one which violates common decency (even though Pompeo's been through multiple administrations). The hearings will be in the headlines for a while and make a bunch of people squeemish about this man leading the bureau which deals with all foreign nations... but yeah, in the end he'll most likely get confirmed unless he withdraws his name and/or DJT falls out of favor with him (either of which is possible with this administration).

Yeah. Because Trump's base actively thinks it's GOOD that with Trump we're tending toward authoritarianism and have no problems using torture ourselves and condoning it in other authoritarian regimes. And Democrats will yell about it, but ultimately they won't be able to do anything about it. And frankly, I'm not even sure they have backbone to stop his confirmation even if they controlled both houses.

To be fair, Americans in general don't really seem to care about torture or other war crimes perpetrated on brown people with foreign sounding names.  There has been no serious push to close Guantanamo bay or halt extrajudicial drone strikes from either party because there's little outrage at what's happening.

Quite true.

Malaysia41

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1453 on: March 13, 2018, 12:37:14 PM »
To be fair, Americans in general don't really seem to care about torture or other war crimes perpetrated on brown people with foreign sounding names.  There has been no serious push to close Guantanamo bay or halt extrajudicial drone strikes from either party because there's little outrage at what's happening.

Hey!  Over here!  ... I'm outraged!

I'm also outraged by, for example, our policy of looking the other way as young boys are raped by pedophiles in the Afghan army, and our electoral system, that corruption is legal, and that we're doing zip on global warming. 

But I already cast light on way too many "look at these horrible realities" issues - and very few people in my circle of family or friends wants to look closer. They'd rather watch a football game.  Well, now, half of them won't even do that since a few football players took a knee during the regularly scheduled holy nationalisitic anthem solute, trying to cast a light on another 'look at this horrible reality" issue. 

Huh - they should have plenty of free time to consider war crimes against brown people with foreign sounding names. Time to make some calls.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 01:25:12 PM by Malaysia41 »

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1454 on: March 18, 2018, 09:18:16 AM »
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the investigations (plural) have reached a political boiling point over the last 72 hours.

Let's recap:
  • GOP members on the House investigation committee contradicts US intelligence agencies by stating Russia did not attempt to influence the election
  • ...then DEMs and a few GOP members refuted the GOP's conclusion in the media
  • UK concludes Russia assasinated a double-agent on UK Soil
  • US then joins UK in condemning Russia
  • Trump asks Kelly to find a replacement for HR McMaster, who publicly stated Russian interference in 2016 was 'incontrovertible'
  • FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe was fired hours before he would collect his full pension
  • McCabe released a statement calling his firing politically motivated and punitive
  • McCabe supposedly kept contemporaneous notes of his interactions with Trump
  • Trump counsil Dowd publicly called for an end to the Russia probe
  • Trump criticized Mueller by name (rare until now), called McCabe's note's "Fake Memos" and claimed nothing had come from the investigation
  • Putin wins re-election in a landslide

This - all in about three days.  And this is excluding non-Russia news, like porn stars and gun laws and the Pennsylvania special election.
That's a lot to unpack.

megaschnauzer

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1455 on: March 19, 2018, 06:34:00 AM »
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the investigations (plural) have reached a political boiling point over the last 72 hours.

Let's recap:
  • GOP members on the House investigation committee contradicts US intelligence agencies by stating Russia did not attempt to influence the election
  • ...then DEMs and a few GOP members refuted the GOP's conclusion in the media
  • UK concludes Russia assasinated a double-agent on UK Soil
  • US then joins UK in condemning Russia
  • Trump asks Kelly to find a replacement for HR McMaster, who publicly stated Russian interference in 2016 was 'incontrovertible'
  • FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe was fired hours before he would collect his full pension
  • McCabe released a statement calling his firing politically motivated and punitive
  • McCabe supposedly kept contemporaneous notes of his interactions with Trump
  • Trump counsil Dowd publicly called for an end to the Russia probe
  • Trump criticized Mueller by name (rare until now), called McCabe's note's "Fake Memos" and claimed nothing had come from the investigation
  • Putin wins re-election in a landslide

This - all in about three days.  And this is excluding non-Russia news, like porn stars and gun laws and the Pennsylvania special election.
That's a lot to unpack.

almost like it's scripted.

GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1456 on: March 19, 2018, 07:20:10 AM »
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the investigations (plural) have reached a political boiling point over the last 72 hours.

Let's recap:
  • GOP members on the House investigation committee contradicts US intelligence agencies by stating Russia did not attempt to influence the election
  • ...then DEMs and a few GOP members refuted the GOP's conclusion in the media
  • UK concludes Russia assasinated a double-agent on UK Soil
  • US then joins UK in condemning Russia
  • Trump asks Kelly to find a replacement for HR McMaster, who publicly stated Russian interference in 2016 was 'incontrovertible'
  • FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe was fired hours before he would collect his full pension
  • McCabe released a statement calling his firing politically motivated and punitive
  • McCabe supposedly kept contemporaneous notes of his interactions with Trump
  • Trump counsil Dowd publicly called for an end to the Russia probe
  • Trump criticized Mueller by name (rare until now), called McCabe's note's "Fake Memos" and claimed nothing had come from the investigation
  • Putin wins re-election in a landslide

This - all in about three days.  And this is excluding non-Russia news, like porn stars and gun laws and the Pennsylvania special election.
That's a lot to unpack.

almost like it's scripted.

Trump's actions are stupid.  They are in line with decades of stupidity from him that he has never tried to hide.  If this was scripted, it would be more believable if there was a little subtlety and something to humanize the bad guy.  Unfortunately, it's reality . . . so we just get unfiltered Trump all the time.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1457 on: March 20, 2018, 07:10:54 AM »
DJT has hired Joe diGenova, a US attorney, TV pundit and 'deep-state' conspiracy theorist.

It's getting really hard to keep track of his legal team.  Cobb & McGahn (both employed by the WH, aka taxpayers), Dowd, Sekulow, diGenova...

This is a LOT of high-paid legal aid... and this ins just for DJT; practically everyone else in the WH has lawyer-ed up with their own private council as well.

Just Joe

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1458 on: March 20, 2018, 07:47:53 AM »
Who pays for all these lawyers? Us the taxpayers?

Just Joe

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1459 on: March 20, 2018, 08:05:04 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/595145615/questions-mount-about-if-and-when-robert-mueller-will-interview-trump

Thought this was an interesting interview. The Representative simply refuses to have a straight conversation. Talks about how the FBI is untrustworthy and how all these people were fired but fails to mention it was Trump who fired them. 

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1460 on: March 20, 2018, 08:48:29 AM »
Talks about how the FBI is untrustworthy and how all these people were fired but fails to mention it was Trump who fired them.

Is this somehow different from anything else this administration has done?

They blame democrats for not passing a DACA fix, but it was Trump who ended DACA in the first place.

They blame mental health laws for gun violence, but it was Trump who recently removed the restrictions on gun purchases by the mentally ill.

They think the healthcare subsidy system is broken, but they're the ones who tried to remove the subsidies in the first place.

They think our China has too much power in trade negotiations, but Trump is the one who withdrew from the Trans Pacific Partnership.

You can add to this list yourself, I'm sure.  On every single issue thus far, Trump has complained and vilified and blamed everyone but himself for the very problems that he himself has created or amplified.

It's all part of his "turn your weaknesses into strengths" strategy.  Just like he's the oldest President ever, so he labelled Hillary as too old and frail to be President.  Just like the Trump foundation was fined for fraud, so he made a big deal about the Clinton Foundation.  Just like he's financially backed by the Russians so he went after Clinton for giving a speech in Russia.  He knows his weaknesses, and he uses them to attack his opponents.  This thing with the FBI is no different.

Next week I expect him to come down hard on democrats for not supporting the Me Too movement more forcefully.  He'll find some example of a liberal politician sleeping with a staffer, and he'll act all outraged that anyone could be so improper.  Maybe he'll call that person a pussy grabber?  Or suggest that an improper hush money NDA was involved?

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1461 on: March 20, 2018, 09:21:33 AM »
Who pays for all these lawyers? Us the taxpayers?
Cobb & McGahn are both paid for and are under the purview of the White House. They are paid out of the federal budget. Every administration has a WH legal council, but I think its new to have two (someone correct me if I"m wrong).  What's interesting with both of them is that, because of their position as official WH counsil, the normal rules of lawyer-client privilege aren't as iron-clad. For example, Mueller or the Senate investigative committee could subpoena all of Cobb's notes. Much of what they do will be discoverable under freedom of information acts (though much is likely protected until after DJT leaves office).

The others are his own personal lawyers, and as such can stonewall and evoke client privilege whenever they want. They were being paid by the RNC - around the holidays Trump announced that he would now pay for his own legal costs... though we've seen how flexible he is with statements like "out of my own pocket" before (e.g. his charitable giving, the Trump foundation, promises made at rallies and on his show...). Last year the NYT reported that DJT was spending about $350,000/month on legal fees; with the addition of diGenova and the intensification of his legal battles on multiple fronts it's hard to imagine that this cost had done anything but increase exponentially.

ETA: Looks like DJT is adding yet another lawyer to his stable: Theodore B Olsen.  The same guy who represented George W. Bush in Bush v. Gore. Whoops.  Apparently Olsen has gone on record saying he didn't accept the job.  Looks like DJT's still shopping around for yet more advocats.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 01:57:51 PM by nereo »

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1462 on: March 20, 2018, 01:35:57 PM »
Who pays for all these lawyers? Us the taxpayers?
There's at least some reason to suspect the DiGenova was hired more to keep him silent about his role with the rogue NY FBI and NYPD agents who pretended to find new dirt on Weiner's laptop right before the election, forcing Comey to "reopen" and then quickly reclose the Secretary of State server investigation. Oh, and he and his wife provide legal representation for several other players in this whole conspiracy. I smell some convoluted attempt to block investigations from interviewing many key witnesses, including DiGenova himself. Trump seems to think he can wave his had and make anything he's done, even pre-inauguration and pre-election, go away by claiming executive privilege and attorney-client privilege. We are assured by many experts that this is not the case, and yet many in any position of power to oppose this remain quiet (and in my view complicit).

Just Joe

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1463 on: March 20, 2018, 02:23:15 PM »
I'd like to pass the hat here to buy a one way ticket to Russia for DJT and family... I'll start it off with $150... ;)

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1464 on: March 20, 2018, 02:52:52 PM »
Olsen has gone on record saying he didn't accept the job.  Looks like DJT's still shopping around for yet more advocats.

Why does DJT need lawyers?  He should fire his entire legal team and represent himself, because no one knows more about the constitution and the law than Trump, believe me.  He's the very best, very best. 

And after he builds the very best legal defense in the world, democrats are going to pay for it.

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1465 on: March 20, 2018, 02:53:37 PM »
I suspect that what DJT needs most right now is a lawyer who specializes in plea bargains.  He needs damage control, not defense.  That ship appears to have sailed, and is now sinking, and lawyers are fleeing like rats.

Alternately, I hear there's a former judge from Alabama who is looking for work these days.  Roy something or other, seems like Trump's kind of guy.  I bet he'd do a good job.

...

Jokes, people, they're jokes.  You have to have a sense of humor in these trying times.  Does anyone have any good lines about constitutional crises?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 05:13:11 PM by sol »

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1466 on: March 20, 2018, 03:14:03 PM »
Olsen has gone on record saying he didn't accept the job.  Looks like DJT's still shopping around for yet more advocats.

Why does DJT need lawyers?  He should fire his entire legal team and represent himself, because no one knows more about the constitution and the law than Trump, believe me.  He's the very best, very best. 

And after he builds the very best legal defense in the world, democrats are going to pay for it.

Yup, the best National Security Advisor (2...?), the best campaign manager, the best press secretary (4), the best Chief of Staff, the best Secretary of State, the best Chief EConomic Advisor, the best Communications Director (3), the best Health and Human Services Sec., the best chief strategist, the best FBI director, the best deputy Chief of Staff (2), the best senior advisor, the best Staff Secretary...

gee, why don't "the best" ever stick around for very long?

Alternating, I hear there's a former judge from Alabama who is looking for work these days.  Roy something or other, seems like Trump's kind of guy.  I bet he'd do a good job.
Yeah, a real "law-and-order candidate" - 'cept he gets to decide to enforce laws that aren't on the books and ignore ones that are based on his own personal opinions.

Glenstache

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1467 on: March 20, 2018, 05:42:59 PM »
Clearly, he is a president who listens to all of these great people. I mean, why else even have them there right?
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/379428-trump-congratulated-putin-after-his-national-security-team-told-him


nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1468 on: April 09, 2018, 05:47:42 PM »
Mark Zuckerberg's statement to congress is worth a read.
Assuming it is true, the extent of Russian propaganda is eye-opening.
https://www.axios.com/read-mark-zuckerberg-testimony-for-congress-1523288674-4ec25015-b37c-4c9e-b367-fd55f9e227f4.html

[excepts - emphasis added]
Quote
III. RUSSIAN ELECTION INTERFERENCE
...
A. What Happened
...
Our security team has been aware of traditional Russian cyber threats — like hacking and malware — for years. Leading up to Election Day in November 2016, we detected and dealt with several threats with ties to Russia. This included activity by a group called APT28, that the U.S. government has publicly linked to Russian military intelligence services.
...
After the election, we continued to investigate and learn more about these new threats. What we found was that bad actors had used coordinated networks of fake accounts to interfere in the election: promoting or attacking specific candidates and causes, creating distrust in political institutions, or simply spreading confusion. Some of these bad actors also used our ads tools.

We also learned about a disinformation campaign run by the Internet Research Agency (IRA) — a Russian agency that has repeatedly acted deceptively and tried to manipulate people in the US, Europe, and Russia. We found about 470 accounts and pages linked to the IRA, which generated around 80,000 Facebook posts over about a two-year period.

Our best estimate is that approximately 126 million people may have been served content from a Facebook Page associated with the IRA at some point during that period. On Instagram, where our data on reach is not as complete, we found about 120,000 pieces of content, and estimate that an additional 20 million people were likely served it.

Over the same period, the IRA also spent approximately $100,000 on more than 3,000 ads on Facebook and Instagram, which were seen by an estimated 11 million people in the United States. We shut down these IRA accounts in August 2017.

Middlesbrough

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1469 on: May 01, 2018, 07:15:36 AM »

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nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1471 on: May 01, 2018, 10:41:58 AM »
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/385602-muellers-former-assistant-says-grammatical-errors-prove-leaked-questions-came

An interesting possibility...

So this theory is that the WH intentionally leaked the questions while simultaneously blasting the leak as 'disgraceful'?  Interesting indeed.
I'm still left wondering how this strategy could benefit DJT.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1472 on: May 01, 2018, 12:03:50 PM »
I'm still left wondering how this strategy could benefit DJT.

Muddy water helps him

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1473 on: May 09, 2018, 05:52:03 AM »
Trump's lawyer/"fixer" was on retainer to a firm owned by a Russian billionaire with close ties to Putin during the 2016 election and well into Trump's first year.  He allegedly received $500k during the first half of 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-attorney-michael-cohen-was-hired-by-us-affiliate-of-russian-company/2018/05/08/12a218c8-52f6-11e8-abd8-265bd07a9859_story.html?utm_term=.511133422acb


former player

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1474 on: May 09, 2018, 07:08:14 AM »
Trump's lawyer/"fixer" was on retainer to a firm owned by a Russian billionaire with close ties to Putin during the 2016 election and well into Trump's first year.  He allegedly received $500k during the first half of 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-attorney-michael-cohen-was-hired-by-us-affiliate-of-russian-company/2018/05/08/12a218c8-52f6-11e8-abd8-265bd07a9859_story.html?utm_term=.511133422acb
Not so much draining the swamp, more peeing into it.

It will be interesting to see what contortions the Trump supporters in Congress come up with to justify this $4 million slush fund started during the transition and continuing throughout the first year of the Trump Presidency.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1475 on: May 09, 2018, 07:48:59 AM »

"The senators found that the Russians targeted at least 18 states, and said that there is evidence that they also went after three others, scanning them for vulnerabilities. In six states, they went further, trying to gain access to voting websites, and in “a small number of states” actually breached election computer defenses.
In those instances the intruders had the ability to change registration data but appeared unable to change votes, the report stated. The senators cautioned that other Russian attacks and breaches could have gone undetected."

"The senators also sounded concerns on Tuesday about the shrinking number of voting-machine makers. The three largest vendors of voting equipment dominate the industry, and both the companies and their subcontractors that serve local election agencies are largely unregulated. That makes them and other vendors “an enticing target for malicious cyberactors,” the Intelligence Committee wrote.
A National Security Agency analysis leaked last June concluded that Russian military intelligence launched a cyberattack on at least one maker of electronic voting equipment during the 2016 campaign, and sent so-called spear-phishing emails days before the general election to 122 local government officials, apparently customers of the manufacturer. The emails concealed a computer script that, when clicked on, “very likely” downloaded a program from an external server that gave the intruders prolonged access to election computers or allowed them to search for valuable data."

"Russia Tried to Undermine Confidence in Voting Systems, Senators Say"
https://nyti.ms/2KMUn4U

Malaysia41

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1476 on: May 09, 2018, 08:05:31 AM »
Trump's lawyer/"fixer" was on retainer to a firm owned by a Russian billionaire with close ties to Putin during the 2016 election and well into Trump's first year.  He allegedly received $500k during the first half of 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-attorney-michael-cohen-was-hired-by-us-affiliate-of-russian-company/2018/05/08/12a218c8-52f6-11e8-abd8-265bd07a9859_story.html?utm_term=.511133422acb
Not so much draining the swamp, more peeing into it.

It will be interesting gross me out to see what contortions the Trump supporters in Congress come up with to justify this $4 million slush fund started during the transition and continuing throughout the first year of the Trump Presidency.

FTFY.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1477 on: May 10, 2018, 08:44:43 PM »

"The senators found that the Russians targeted at least 18 states, and said that there is evidence that they also went after three others, scanning them for vulnerabilities. In six states, they went further, trying to gain access to voting websites, and in “a small number of states” actually breached election computer defenses.
In those instances the intruders had the ability to change registration data but appeared unable to change votes, the report stated. The senators cautioned that other Russian attacks and breaches could have gone undetected."

"The senators also sounded concerns on Tuesday about the shrinking number of voting-machine makers. The three largest vendors of voting equipment dominate the industry, and both the companies and their subcontractors that serve local election agencies are largely unregulated. That makes them and other vendors “an enticing target for malicious cyberactors,” the Intelligence Committee wrote.
A National Security Agency analysis leaked last June concluded that Russian military intelligence launched a cyberattack on at least one maker of electronic voting equipment during the 2016 campaign, and sent so-called spear-phishing emails days before the general election to 122 local government officials, apparently customers of the manufacturer. The emails concealed a computer script that, when clicked on, “very likely” downloaded a program from an external server that gave the intruders prolonged access to election computers or allowed them to search for valuable data."

"Russia Tried to Undermine Confidence in Voting Systems, Senators Say"
https://nyti.ms/2KMUn4U

I feel like as a country that we should be FREAKIN' THE HELL OUT over this stuff. I don't think most people realize how important it is that our elections are trustworthy and valid.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1478 on: May 11, 2018, 05:59:13 AM »

"The senators found that the Russians targeted at least 18 states, and said that there is evidence that they also went after three others, scanning them for vulnerabilities. In six states, they went further, trying to gain access to voting websites, and in “a small number of states” actually breached election computer defenses.
In those instances the intruders had the ability to change registration data but appeared unable to change votes, the report stated. The senators cautioned that other Russian attacks and breaches could have gone undetected."

"The senators also sounded concerns on Tuesday about the shrinking number of voting-machine makers. The three largest vendors of voting equipment dominate the industry, and both the companies and their subcontractors that serve local election agencies are largely unregulated. That makes them and other vendors “an enticing target for malicious cyberactors,” the Intelligence Committee wrote.
A National Security Agency analysis leaked last June concluded that Russian military intelligence launched a cyberattack on at least one maker of electronic voting equipment during the 2016 campaign, and sent so-called spear-phishing emails days before the general election to 122 local government officials, apparently customers of the manufacturer. The emails concealed a computer script that, when clicked on, “very likely” downloaded a program from an external server that gave the intruders prolonged access to election computers or allowed them to search for valuable data."

"Russia Tried to Undermine Confidence in Voting Systems, Senators Say"
https://nyti.ms/2KMUn4U

I feel like as a country that we should be FREAKIN' THE HELL OUT over this stuff. I don't think most people realize how important it is that our elections are trustworthy and valid.

I agree, but I think it's been part of a progression.  Citizens are disillusioned with politics and the two party system., and feel a change in candidates doesn't do much.  Then they live in increasingly polarized districts, so they feel their vote doesn't matter. Each new administration offers superficially similar promises (Hope, Greatness, etc) but not much seems to change, which breed cynicism about real change actually happening.

So by the time the Russians come around putting their bear-paws on the scale a lot of people think: "hey, its always the same, my vote doesn't matter, and all these promises wind up being for nought, so what difference does it make it some silly foreigners are sitting in a building somewhere screwing with our computers?"

I think the overwhelming desire of most US citizens is to not have to think about government at all - to have it just be in the background chugging along relatively efficiently. But scandal after scandal and constant attacks by certain factions highlighting waste and arguing that zero-is-always-better in terms of government forces people to think about government, and they just get turned off by it.


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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1480 on: May 11, 2018, 09:51:24 AM »

"The senators found that the Russians targeted at least 18 states, and said that there is evidence that they also went after three others, scanning them for vulnerabilities. In six states, they went further, trying to gain access to voting websites, and in “a small number of states” actually breached election computer defenses.
In those instances the intruders had the ability to change registration data but appeared unable to change votes, the report stated. The senators cautioned that other Russian attacks and breaches could have gone undetected."

"The senators also sounded concerns on Tuesday about the shrinking number of voting-machine makers. The three largest vendors of voting equipment dominate the industry, and both the companies and their subcontractors that serve local election agencies are largely unregulated. That makes them and other vendors “an enticing target for malicious cyberactors,” the Intelligence Committee wrote.
A National Security Agency analysis leaked last June concluded that Russian military intelligence launched a cyberattack on at least one maker of electronic voting equipment during the 2016 campaign, and sent so-called spear-phishing emails days before the general election to 122 local government officials, apparently customers of the manufacturer. The emails concealed a computer script that, when clicked on, “very likely” downloaded a program from an external server that gave the intruders prolonged access to election computers or allowed them to search for valuable data."

"Russia Tried to Undermine Confidence in Voting Systems, Senators Say"
https://nyti.ms/2KMUn4U

I feel like as a country that we should be FREAKIN' THE HELL OUT over this stuff. I don't think most people realize how important it is that our elections are trustworthy and valid.

Well our country is full of hypocrites. Integrity is merely a catch phrase.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1481 on: May 11, 2018, 08:32:17 PM »
"We read every one of the 3,517 Facebook ads bought by Russians. Their dominant strategy: Sowing racial discord"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/11/what-we-found-facebook-ads-russians-accused-election-meddling/602319002/

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The most prominent ad — with 1.3 million impressions and 73,000 clicks — illustrates how the influence campaign was executed.

A Facebook page called “Back the Badge,” landed on Oct. 19, 2016, following a summer that saw more than 100 Black Lives Matter protests, NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick’s national anthem protests in August and protests over the police shootings of Terence Crutcher in Tulsa, Oklahoma and Keith Lamont Scott in North Carolina.

The information analyzed by the USA TODAY Network shows the Internet Research Agency paid 110,058 rubles, or $1,785, for the Facebook spot. It targeted 20 to 65-year-olds interested in law enforcement who had already liked pages such as “The Thin Blue,” “Police Wives Unite” and the “Officer Down Memorial Page.”

The very next day, the influence operation paid for an ad depicting two black brothers handcuffed in Colorado for “driving while black.” That ad targeted people interested in Martin Luther King Jr., Malcom X and black history. Within minutes, the Russian company targeted the same group with an ad that said “police brutality has been the most recurring issue over the last several years.”

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1483 on: May 16, 2018, 10:14:49 AM »
Remember a simpler time when the Trump defense was, "No contact with Russia?"

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1484 on: May 16, 2018, 10:31:26 AM »
in "News that's only surprising to some Fox News bubble-dwellers": The US Senate Intelligence Committee publicly declared today that Russia favored DJT in the 2016 election, and actively interfered in the US election with the coordinated goal of supporting DJT and undermining HRC.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/16/russia-favored-trump-in-2016-election-senate-intelligence-committee-says-breaking-with-house-gop/?utm_term=.a8380bdbcf00

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1485 on: May 16, 2018, 10:53:31 AM »
I know one person the news will be surprising to.

I'm not sure that GDP is the issue so much as that Putin has a long track record of doing exactly what his is accused of in other countries. Marie LePen comes to mind if we need something else more recent and openly acknowledged. A great way to improve your standing in the world is to shift the stance of other nations to be more favorable, especially when one of those countries has the leverage to impose economically significant sanctions. Just to bring that point home, some of those sanctions were put in place (along with the sending-home of some 30 diplomats) were  put in place in direct response to evidence that Russia directly attempted to influence our election (and no, not by changing vote tallies directly).

If this were McCarthy, the question would be: Do you love America enough to stand up to foreign fellow travelers and conspirators? A love of Russia is fine and protected speech, even for the president and I have no problem with that in a legal sense even if I disagree with it personally. If the Trump campaign played dirty with Russia to help win, or in a quid-pro-quo then it is starting to smell a lot like treason. It is not currently conclusive (just as the FBI investigation of Clinton did not lead to a trial or conviction), but there is enough smoke to wonder if there is a fire, so to speak.

Bold mine

But where is the logic? There is none. There would be only downside for Russia to engage in such risky behavior.
All the hoopla is inane hysteria; trying to create smoke.
Trump as Hitler meme has failed; now it's Trump as Putin. Whatever.
Russia as 'enemy #1' is 'tilting at windmills'. Russia is a convenient way to try to smear Trump.
Just more 'crying Wolf'

Obama+Clinton worked deals with Russia. Facts. If anything, if I was Putin, i'd be pulling for Clinton. A known, flexible candidate. Not the crazy Trump, no one knows what he's going to do.



Sorry ya'll if you actually trust the MSM, you're in a small and shrinking minority... 
MSM and Dems seem to be locked in a suicide pact.

-Who actually had Russia ties? Hillary via Clinton Foundation
-Where did the 'Trump/Russia' story come from? Hillary, via Podesta
-Where is proof, actual verifiable facts (not just 'anonymous sources') of Trump/Russia connection? nowhere



So after a year of investigations: Who did what colluding?

Samp-creature establishment Dems+Repubs (they are not so different, it would seem) and national security agencies, with their 4th estate MSM buddies turning a blind eye.

- James Comey prepared to exonerate Hillary Clinton before interviewing her.
- Fusion GPS executives invoking the Fifth Amendment.
- The Podesta Group coming under the scrutiny of Mueller.
- New revelations about Uranium One.
- Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee paid for the Trump dossier.
- O Administration possible knowledge/complicity in some of the above....

Dirty!!

At least one promise was kept: that of O. to the Russians, to 'be more flexible' following the 2012 re-election :)

And so the worm turns....



wow, does anyone believe the trump/Russia fabrication any more? closing in on 2 years ... nothing? If yes, it's an act of faith and hope, one small step removed from religion.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/how-we-can-be-certain-that-mueller-wont-prove-trump-russia-collusion-595db7f1401b

The only collusion we can factually verify are various swamp creatures colluding to 1) sink Bernie 2) smear Trump the candidate 3) smear Trump the president elect 4) smear Trump the president.

https://disobedientmedia.com/2018/01/a-year-in-review-democracy-betrayed-by-democrats-not-russia/



Take a moment to review the genesis of all this 'Russia' hysteria: The DNC claiming they were hacked, screaming about Russia, while not allowing the FBI to investigate, at the same time rigging the primaries for HRC, in cahoots with their MSM cheerleaders. These are known facts, not speculations.

https://disobedientmedia.com/2018/01/a-year-in-review-democracy-betrayed-by-democrats-not-russia/
Even Jill Stein points it out. Julian Assange has been poking holes in the establishment story this whole time. The Dems+MSM screaming not to release the memo, then claiming it was a dud, I mean c'mon. It reeks of swamp creature desperation.

Yes the election was rigged. Trump won anyway. Russiagate is a political smokeshow. Time to get on with life.



Life Happiness Tip: stop watching MSM, they teach the arts of bias, personal insults and snark, not things to be proud of. Learn how to read and determine facts from opinion - the two are so easily confused.

Russia investigation facts to date:
4 people charged with either/or 1) doing illegal things before the campaign 2) lying
0 charges of anyone doing anything connecting Trump to Russia

*crickets*

Correct me if I missed any relevant facts.
As far as I can see the 'rest' of Russiagate is easily-spun conjecture, largely spun by triggered, hateful MSM. You'll see what you want to see. "Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." That's what I'm trying to do here, and I'll probably fail, people seem pretty invested in their opinion.

In the meantime, this is rapidly turning into Obamagate. Who knew and did what when in the O admin? Why are the swamp creatures suddenly so worried about facts coming to light? The same swamp creatures who claimed there was 'no scenario' Trump could win, his chance of winning is 'the Easter Bunny, doesn't exist' etc etc. And then he won, and 'their world ended'. Seldom have they been more wrong and never has it felt so good.

I'm glad O is gone and richer too. May the trend continue!
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/367972-the-link-between-obamas-departure-and-your-increasing-wealth

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1486 on: May 16, 2018, 11:00:07 AM »
ah, the internet - where comments live on forever!

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1487 on: May 16, 2018, 11:06:12 AM »
ah, the internet - where comments live on forever!

I think you're both missing the point.  People like acroy live in such a bubble that your facts don't matter.  He'll call everything a lie if it doesn't align with his views.  Donald Trump himself could say "I colluded with Russia" on live television and 30 million Americans still wouldn't believe it.

The whole point of the Russian interference in the election was to further divide us.  Not just to support one candidate over another, but to make everyone ignore facts and retreat into the most extreme viewpoints possible.  They promoted gun rights AND gun control, with the most inflammatory language and imagery possible, to make sure there could be no compromise.  They want Americans to hate each other, because that's how you undermine our democracy.

With that in mind, maybe we shouldn't be making fun of acroy.  He's also a victim here.  Russian propaganda, often repeated on Fox News, has taught him to despise you and all of your supposedly pro-democracy ideas.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 11:25:46 AM by sol »

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1488 on: May 16, 2018, 11:27:55 AM »
what frustrates me is that in his defense, DJT has framed the entire issue about whether or not he colluded with Russia.  As long as people view the investigation only through that lens , any failure to convict or impeach DJT can be used to say the entire investigation was a 'witch hunt'.

Of course the problem with using DJT as the only measure is that it ignores everything else and at great peril to our democracy. Nevermind Flynn, Gates, Papadopoulos, Cohen or Manafort. Nevermind Pinedo and van der Zwann. Nevermind conclusions by the FBI, CIA & Senate Intelligence committee that Russia actively undermined our election. Comey, Sessions, McCabe and Rosenstein all get professional wounded in the maelstrom. 

In making this all about and only about what is prosecutable against DJT we do a disservice to everything else that has occurred, and turn a blind eye to how easily hostile nations can influence our democracy.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1489 on: May 16, 2018, 12:12:35 PM »
^Don't worry, The Cheeto is on it for 2018!

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/15/white-house-eliminates-cyber-adviser-post-542916

Quote
The Trump administration has eliminated the White House’s top cyber policy role, jettisoning a key position created during the Obama presidency to harmonize the government's overall approach to cybersecurity policy and digital warfare.

Dammit.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1490 on: May 17, 2018, 05:59:41 AM »
Happy Mueller Investigation Anniversary everyone...
what will year 2 bring?

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1491 on: May 17, 2018, 07:12:29 AM »
Happy Mueller Investigation Anniversary everyone...
what will year 2 bring?

More indictments.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1492 on: May 17, 2018, 08:25:02 AM »

But no indictment against President Trump if you believe Giuliani

Mueller Won’t Indict Trump if He Finds Wrongdoing, Giuliani Says
https://nyti.ms/2GoLH0Y

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1493 on: May 17, 2018, 09:22:26 AM »
Neato.  So, the president of the USA is above the law then.

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1494 on: May 17, 2018, 10:06:25 AM »
Neato.  So, the president of the USA is above the law then.

Only if you believe Giuliani, which....

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1495 on: May 17, 2018, 10:15:10 AM »
Neato.  So, the president of the USA is above the law then.

Only if you believe Giuliani, which....

Fair enough.  I'm always impressed when he manages to complete a whole sentence without saying 9/11.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1496 on: May 17, 2018, 10:41:43 AM »
Neato.  So, the president of the USA is above the law then.

Only if you believe Giuliani, which....

Fair enough.  I'm always impressed when he manages to complete a whole sentence without saying 9/11.
Ah, Giuliana - rarely has a person been supported by so many, only to throw it all away to appeal to so very few.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1497 on: May 17, 2018, 06:07:41 PM »


In making this all about and only about what is prosecutable against DJT we do a disservice to everything else that has occurred, and turn a blind eye to how easily hostile nations can influence our democracy.

We have a global information network in a society that values free choice in all its forms. People get to read what they want regardless who it is published by. The problem here is human nature, not the tools.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1498 on: May 17, 2018, 09:11:50 PM »


In making this all about and only about what is prosecutable against DJT we do a disservice to everything else that has occurred, and turn a blind eye to how easily hostile nations can influence our democracy.

We have a global information network in a society that values free choice in all its forms. People get to read what they want regardless who it is published by. The problem here is human nature, not the tools.
So what's easier to effect, human nature or the tools. My guess is that it's impossible to change human nature so we go for the next best thing.

Also I don't understand how your comment is a response to the nereo quote.

gentmach

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1499 on: May 17, 2018, 10:07:44 PM »


In making this all about and only about what is prosecutable against DJT we do a disservice to everything else that has occurred, and turn a blind eye to how easily hostile nations can influence our democracy.

We have a global information network in a society that values free choice in all its forms. People get to read what they want regardless who it is published by. The problem here is human nature, not the tools.
So what's easier to effect, human nature or the tools. My guess is that it's impossible to change human nature so we go for the next best thing.

Also I don't understand how your comment is a response to the nereo quote.

We will always have foreign interference in our elections. We always have had interference. (Has context been provided for how much other nations spent on ads? And also compare it to 2012?)

Social media just cuts out the middle man (newspaper editors, television editors.) Technology has disrupted every industry. Why wouldn't it disrupt our politics? If a foreign adversary decides to use social media as an attack vector, can we actually stop it? Can you effectively filter the "bad" news? Who gets to decide what is or isn't newsworthy?

If you say "power to the people!", You may have to accept the people won't agree with you.

Of course they will make it all about Trump. That way people don't have to analyze what actually led to Trump being elected. That once Trump is out of office, everything will return to normal.