Author Topic: United States of Russia?  (Read 220864 times)

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1000 on: November 07, 2017, 03:10:27 PM »
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/7/16616912/carter-page-testimony-trump-russia

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/politics/carter-page-testimony-released/index.html

Carter Page's turn is definitely coming up soon.

SO.  MUCH.  WINNING.

Here is what this U of NH professor found in Page's testimony to the House Intelligence Committee last week (where Page contradicted himself a bunch of times):

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/927999713714081799/photo/1

As he notes at the end of the tweet thread - this is what we've found out from public testimony.  You can imagine how much more Mueller knows.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 03:17:21 PM by DarkandStormy »

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1001 on: November 09, 2017, 03:16:58 PM »

bacchi

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1002 on: November 10, 2017, 10:10:57 AM »
Flynn and his son are next. Flynn Sr will have leverage applied re: his son's sentence and roll over.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/10/politics/wsj-flynn-turkey/index.html

It may never get to Trump but it'll reach high (Sessions?).


nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1003 on: November 10, 2017, 10:41:41 AM »
Flynn and his son are next. Flynn Sr will have leverage applied re: his son's sentence and roll over.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/10/politics/wsj-flynn-turkey/index.html

It may never get to Trump but it'll reach high (Sessions?).
We shall see where this goes.
As for reaching high 0 it's already ensnared his chief campaign manager (Manafort), albeit for crimes committed largely before the campaign started.
Flynn Jr & Sr, Page, Kurshner, Sessions... there's a lot of high-profile people under this microscope.  Will their conduct rise to the level of criminal charges? we shall see...

Just keep in mind that special prosecutors have all taken several years to conduct their investigations.  We are in, what, month 7?

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1004 on: November 10, 2017, 01:41:36 PM »
As for reaching high 0 it's already ensnared his chief campaign manager (Manafort),

Why is this not already the biggest story in the land? 

The President of the United States hired a literal foreign agent to run his campaign.  It's like a KGB spy becoming Speaker of the House, and nobody bats an eye.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1005 on: November 10, 2017, 01:55:20 PM »
As for reaching high 0 it's already ensnared his chief campaign manager (Manafort),

Why is this not already the biggest story in the land? 

The President of the United States hired a literal foreign agent to run his campaign.  It's like a KGB spy becoming Speaker of the House, and nobody bats an eye.

The response has been equally baffling to me. 
[quote = Trump]Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign.[/quote]
The indictment is for offenses occurring between 2010 and 2014. The subtext here is that we should be utterly unconcerned that the chief campaign manager of the sitting POTUS was both a foreign agent and an alleged criminal a few years back.

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1006 on: November 10, 2017, 01:58:27 PM »
As for reaching high 0 it's already ensnared his chief campaign manager (Manafort),

Why is this not already the biggest story in the land? 

The President of the United States hired a literal foreign agent to run his campaign.  It's like a KGB spy becoming Speaker of the House, and nobody bats an eye.

Because in Trump Land facts don't matter, only fee fees.

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1007 on: November 10, 2017, 02:04:36 PM »
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/359812-mueller-investigation-involves-member-of-congress-for-the-first

The Mueller investigation now includes a member of Congress.  You won't be surprised to learn it's a Republican Congressman.

http://www.businessinsider.com/devin-nunes-michael-flynn-turkey-russia-2017-11

Devin Nunes is also being looked at in the Michael Flynn debacle with Turkey.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1008 on: November 10, 2017, 02:26:21 PM »
"Foreign agent" in this context means "lobbyist," not "espionage." RT was just forced to register as a foreign agent today. It's not like they are stealing F-22 secrets, they are just funded by the Russian government and spread propaganda they think is favorable.

It's not even a serious crime to fail to register. DOJ rarely prosecutes for it.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1009 on: November 10, 2017, 02:31:45 PM »
The Mueller investigation now includes a member of Congress.  You won't be surprised to learn it's a Republican Congressman.

uh-oh.  I wonder how much longer a GOP controlled congress will permit this investigation to continue unimpeded when one/some of their own members are persons of interest.

Samuel

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1010 on: November 10, 2017, 02:36:26 PM »
As for reaching high 0 it's already ensnared his chief campaign manager (Manafort),

Why is this not already the biggest story in the land? 

The President of the United States hired a literal foreign agent to run his campaign.  It's like a KGB spy becoming Speaker of the House, and nobody bats an eye.

The response has been equally baffling to me. 
[quoteTrump]Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign.[/ quote]
The indictment is for offenses occurring between 2010 and 2014. The subtext here is that we should be utterly unconcerned that the chief campaign manager of the sitting POTUS was both a foreign agent and an alleged criminal a few years back.

Plus this doesn't mean Mueller doesn't also have evidence for additional charges against Manafort he could bring later. Mueller is working with the New York Attorney General as well so if Trump fights back by firing him or issuing pardons (which he almost certainly will at some point) the NY AG could still bring state charges that a Trump pardon wouldn't fix. By not hitting him with everything now they are fully clear of any potential "double jeopardy" issues should Trump pardon Manafort. I think they're pressuring Manafort really hard to flip on those higher up the chain.

Timing the Manafort charges with the announcement of Papadopoulos's guilty plea (remember, the plea happened months ago and he's been "cooperating" since) means republicans can't simply deny that the shenanigans were completely separate from the campaign.

This, Trump supporters, is what "three dimensional chess" looks like. It's not freaking out on twitter to distract from bad press.



« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 02:39:07 PM by Samuel »

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1011 on: November 11, 2017, 07:45:12 AM »
Well Trump just announced that he spoke with Putin who said Russia "absolutely did not meddle in our election".
So I guess that settles it.

Also just in:  OJ Simplson definitely did not kill his wife, Pete Rose certainly did not gamble on baseball games, Barry Bonds never took steroids and the civil war really had nothing to do with slavery. 

Glad we have that covered.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1012 on: November 13, 2017, 07:30:49 AM »
It's likely the hack on the NSA is an orchestrated effort by Russia/Putin. This hacking makes it even more treasonous to me that Trump and any Republican has any connection whatsoever to Russia.

Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A. to Its Core
https://nyti.ms/2ji4LZ0

"One passage, possibly hinting at the Shadow Brokers’ identity, underscored the close relationship of Russian intelligence to criminal hackers. “Russian security peoples,” it said, “is becoming Russian hackeres at nights, but only full moons.”
Russia is the prime suspect in a parallel hemorrhage of hacking tools and secret documents from the C.I.A.’s Center for Cyber Intelligence, posted week after week since March to the WikiLeaks website under the names Vault7 and Vault8. That breach, too, is unsolved."

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1013 on: November 13, 2017, 07:35:02 AM »
Mueller: lying
Comey: lying
Obama: lying
Clinton: lying
Federal judges: lying
His sex assault accusers: lying
Scientists about climate change: lying
Doctors about Affordable Care Act: lying
Mother of slain U.S. soldier: lying
Putin: He means it.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1014 on: November 13, 2017, 08:32:55 AM »
Mueller: lying
Comey: lying
Obama: lying
Clinton: lying
Federal judges: lying
His sex assault accusers: lying
Scientists about climate change: lying
Doctors about Affordable Care Act: lying
Mother of slain U.S. soldier: lying
Putin: He means it.
I'd be laughing if I wasn't crying inside.

You also forgot:
The media
George Papadopoulos
...

DoubleDown

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1015 on: November 13, 2017, 08:43:42 PM »
Donald Trump Jr. was communicating secretly with WikiLeaks as they were releasing hacked emails from the Clinton campaign (under the guidance of Russian Intelligence):

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/13/politics/wikileaks-donald-trump-jr-2016-election/index.html

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1016 on: November 14, 2017, 09:58:55 AM »
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/jeff-sessions-testify-house-judiciary-committee-likely-face-110304060--abc-news-topstories.html

Sessions magically remembers meeting Papadopolous after previously testifying he did not recall.

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1017 on: November 14, 2017, 07:11:01 PM »
Sessions magically remembers meeting Papadopolous after previously testifying he did not recall.

Everything about the Trump administration is conveniently unrememberable until the press does some fact checking.

Examples from the Post:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/14/a-brief-history-of-things-that-jeff-sessions-and-team-trump-could-not-recall-until-the-media-reminded-them/

sessions forgot meeting Papadopolous
trump forgot meeting with Papadopolous
trump jr forgot meeting with the russians
kushner forgot meeting with the russians
trump jr forgot seeking out dirt on clinton
sessions forgot meeting with the russians
sessions forgot discussing the campaign with the russians

And that's not even touching Manafort or Flynn.  Those are just the most recent cases where administration officials were asked direction questions and testified they "couldn't remember" the answers, only to have the media remind them days later by quoting its own reporting.  Why is it that everyone in America knows that Trump Jr met with the Russians but Trump Jr mysteriously gets amnesia every time he's asked about it?

Paul der Krake

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1018 on: November 14, 2017, 07:17:04 PM »
Yeah but what about Obama's birth certificate?

JLee

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1019 on: November 14, 2017, 07:20:21 PM »
Sessions magically remembers meeting Papadopolous after previously testifying he did not recall.

Everything about the Trump administration is conveniently unrememberable until the press does some fact checking.

Examples from the Post:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/14/a-brief-history-of-things-that-jeff-sessions-and-team-trump-could-not-recall-until-the-media-reminded-them/

sessions forgot meeting Papadopolous
trump forgot meeting with Papadopolous
trump jr forgot meeting with the russians
kushner forgot meeting with the russians
trump jr forgot seeking out dirt on clinton
sessions forgot meeting with the russians
sessions forgot discussing the campaign with the russians

And that's not even touching Manafort or Flynn.  Those are just the most recent cases where administration officials were asked direction questions and testified they "couldn't remember" the answers, only to have the media remind them days later by quoting its own reporting.  Why is it that everyone in America knows that Trump Jr met with the Russians but Trump Jr mysteriously gets amnesia every time he's asked about it?

When the situation becomes tenuous, distract! https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/us/politics/justice-department-uranium-one-special-counsel.html

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1020 on: November 14, 2017, 07:28:15 PM »
Yeah but what about Obama's birth certificate?

Roy Moore says it's a forgery.  He's pretty sure of it.

But he can't remember if he sexually assaulted a 16 year old girl on January 3rd, 1978 in his pickup truck parked behind the Olde Hickory House in Gadsen Alabama.  He doesn't deny it, he just doesn't recall.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 07:33:51 PM by sol »

GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1021 on: November 14, 2017, 08:06:43 PM »
Yeah but what about Obama's birth certificate?

Roy Moore says it's a forgery.  He's pretty sure of it.

But he can't remember if he sexually assaulted a 16 year old girl on January 3rd, 1978 in his pickup truck parked behind the Olde Hickory House in Gadsen Alabama.  He doesn't deny it, he just doesn't recall.

It makes sense.  When there you commit as many sexual assaults of minors as it appears that Moore has they probably all kinda run together and get confusing over time.

Glenstache

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DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1023 on: November 15, 2017, 08:19:56 AM »


When you've completely lost it...

NoStacheOhio

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1024 on: November 15, 2017, 08:42:28 AM »

When you've completely lost it...

Same shit, different shouting face


Glenstache

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1025 on: November 15, 2017, 10:02:11 AM »


When you've completely lost it...
They forgot the direct line between Bill and Hillary. So scandalous!

Lagom

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1026 on: November 15, 2017, 12:42:56 PM »
That kind of crap always just makes me think of Charlie in the mailroom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5Glfe6UeXQ
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 03:41:52 PM by Lagom »

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1027 on: November 15, 2017, 12:59:18 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/15/christopher-steele-trump-russia-dossier-accurate

Christopher Steele believes his dossier is "70-90% accurate."

Quote
Steele delivered a total of 16 reports to Fusion between June and early November 2016, but his sources started to go quiet from July, when Trump’s ties to Russia came under scrutiny. According to Harding’s account, he was shocked by the extent of collusion his sources were reporting.

“For anyone who reads it, this is a life-changing experience,” Steele told friends.

Steele flew to Rome in June to brief his FBI contact with whom he had shared his Fifa report, and returned in September to meet a full FBI team of investigators. He described their response as “shock and horror”, and they asked him to explain his methods and to pass on future reports.

However, as the weeks went by leading up to the 8 November election, the FBI told him it could not go public with material involving a presidential candidate, and then his FBI contacts went silent altogether. Steele told a friend it was clear he had passed on a “radioactive hot potato”.

Unless her name is Clinton, amirite?

Dabnasty

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1028 on: November 15, 2017, 02:21:58 PM »
That kind of crap always just makes me thing of Charlie in the mailroom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5Glfe6UeXQ
And our response should be just like Mac's:

"Sean, not only does none of this make any sense...All of these people have been explaining what really happened for days!"
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 06:11:21 AM by Dabnasty »

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1029 on: November 16, 2017, 12:11:32 PM »
http://www.newsweek.com/mueller-trump-hicks-713318

Mueller will interview Hope Hicks soon.

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1030 on: November 17, 2017, 09:29:10 AM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/16/robert-mueller-subpoenaed-top-trump-campaign-officials-report.html

Quote
More than a dozen top Trump campaign officials subpoenaed in Mueller probe

SO MUCH WINNING.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1031 on: November 20, 2017, 08:58:01 AM »
Mueller has directed the DOJ to release a broad array of documents and internal communications, including any emails relating to the firing of Director Comey.
This is the first (known) records request from the made to the DOJ from Mueller.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/special-counsel-sends-wide-ranging-request-documents-justice/story?id=51261366

Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1032 on: November 21, 2017, 06:28:43 PM »
Just checking in, I see that you're all desperately hoping something is found. It's little like the Obama birth certificate story

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1033 on: November 21, 2017, 06:46:56 PM »
Just checking in, I see that you're all desperately hoping something is found. It's little like the Obama birth certificate story

In what way does it bear any resemblance at all to the Obama birther conspiracy?

Was someone indicted over Obama's birth certificate?  Did any senior administration officials resign in disgrace?  Did a judge issue any no-knock warrants for Obama conspirators?

I like your chutzpah, but I think you're reaching in this case.

Kris

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1034 on: November 21, 2017, 07:40:00 PM »
Just checking in, I see that you're all desperately hoping something is found. It's little like the Obama birth certificate story

In what way does it bear any resemblance at all to the Obama birther conspiracy?

Was someone indicted over Obama's birth certificate?  Did any senior administration officials resign in disgrace?  Did a judge issue any no-knock warrants for Obama conspirators?

I like your chutzpah, but I think you're reaching in this case.

It’s like it in the sense that Trump supporters hope for some sense of moral equivalency.

Which is fucking sad. But hey.

GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1035 on: November 22, 2017, 07:13:48 AM »
Just checking in, I see that you're all desperately hoping something is found. It's little like the Obama birth certificate story

In what way does it bear any resemblance at all to the Obama birther conspiracy?

Was someone indicted over Obama's birth certificate?  Did any senior administration officials resign in disgrace?  Did a judge issue any no-knock warrants for Obama conspirators?

I like your chutzpah, but I think you're reaching in this case.

It’s like it in the sense that Trump supporters hope for some sense of moral equivalency.

Which is fucking sad. But hey.

Trumps actions caused much of the controversy for the Russian scandal and the birther commotion, so they resemble one another in that way.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1036 on: November 22, 2017, 10:25:08 AM »
just a troll, guys.  Classic false equivalency at work.  Nothing to see here....

tralfamadorian

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jrhampt

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1038 on: November 22, 2017, 07:05:25 PM »

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1039 on: November 23, 2017, 07:46:08 AM »
Interview is definitely a primer on the collusion between Trump and Putin.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1040 on: November 23, 2017, 06:16:14 PM »
Flynn's lawyer has shut down communications with the WH, possibly signalling he's now cooperating with Mueller's investigation.

It's been pretty notable that Flynn has been so silent for so long.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/flynns-lawyer-shuts-down-communications-with-trumps-team-a-sign-he-may-be-cooperating-with-mueller-probe/2017/11/23/75de75ea-d09b-11e7-81bc-c55a220c8cbe_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_flynn-625pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.3f51a54a3b20

oldtoyota

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1041 on: November 25, 2017, 02:19:00 PM »
Mueller: lying
Comey: lying
Obama: lying
Clinton: lying
Federal judges: lying
His sex assault accusers: lying
Scientists about climate change: lying
Doctors about Affordable Care Act: lying
Mother of slain U.S. soldier: lying
Putin: He means it.

Well, when you look at it that way...

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1042 on: November 28, 2017, 08:06:53 AM »
The Columnist reviews Luke Harding’s new book, “Collusion: Secret Meetings, Dirty Money, and How Russia Helped Donald Trump Win.” Odds Are, Russia Owns Trump

https://nyti.ms/2icfx2N

Interesting tidbit:

"One uncanny aspect of the investigations into Trump’s Russia connections is that instead of too little evidence there’s too much. It’s impossible to keep it straight without the kind of chaotic wall charts that Carrie Mathison of “Homeland” assembled during her manic episodes. "

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1043 on: November 28, 2017, 08:54:45 AM »
The Columnist reviews Luke Harding’s new book, “Collusion: Secret Meetings, Dirty Money, and How Russia Helped Donald Trump Win.” Odds Are, Russia Owns Trump

https://nyti.ms/2icfx2N

Interesting tidbit:

"One uncanny aspect of the investigations into Trump’s Russia connections is that instead of too little evidence there’s too much. It’s impossible to keep it straight without the kind of chaotic wall charts that Carrie Mathison of “Homeland” assembled during her manic episodes. "

My biggest fear about relying on the special prosecutor is that the evidence Mueller & his aids collects might not see the light of day.  There are two ways that could happen
i) the investigation gets shut down
ii) aspects of the investigation result in plea-bargins or no criminal charges.

The former is a constant possibility, and the wider the net gets cast the more members of congress might fear unflattering things about themselves or their party will come out, threatening their own careers or their majority.  The natural tendancy here is to eliminate the threat and shut it down.

the latter is talked about much less but equally unsettling. The only evidence that will become public will be that which is directly applicable to filed criminal charges. There may be a lot of wrong-doing uncovered by the probe which falls into the murky grey area of prosecutable.  There's a lot of unethical, immoral and even illegal crap that could have taken place but won't rise to the level of criminal charges.  Those findings are unlikely to see the light of day.  In the same vein, someone who is so screwed legally might coorporate in exchange for keeping the more sordid details out of the public record, so while we may learn that person A pleads guilty to lying on federal forms and accepting gifts from hostile powers without the proper declarations we won't learn about how he sold his country downriver to do lines of coke on a Russian hooker.

acroy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1044 on: November 28, 2017, 09:45:12 AM »
Just checking in, I see that you're all desperately hoping something is found. It's little like the Obama birth certificate story
In what way does it bear any resemblance at all to the Obama birther conspiracy?
The 'desperate hope' makes it feel quite similar. Sorry ya'll but thesvenster and I do recognize the same hysterically absurd tune being played in different venues.

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1045 on: November 28, 2017, 10:07:10 AM »
Just checking in, I see that you're all desperately hoping something is found. It's little like the Obama birth certificate story
In what way does it bear any resemblance at all to the Obama birther conspiracy?
The 'desperate hope' makes it feel quite similar. Sorry ya'll but thesvenster and I do recognize the same hysterically absurd tune being played in different venues.

Papadopolous pled guilty.
Manafort and Gates charged.
Flynn no longer communicating with Trump/White House.

Ah yes, a birther conspiracy based on fantasy vs. an actual, ongoing investigating.

Totally similar...if you don't live in a world of facts, I guess.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1046 on: November 28, 2017, 11:01:38 AM »
Just checking in, I see that you're all desperately hoping something is found. It's little like the Obama birth certificate story
In what way does it bear any resemblance at all to the Obama birther conspiracy?
The 'desperate hope' makes it feel quite similar. Sorry ya'll but thesvenster and I do recognize the same hysterically absurd tune being played in different venues.

You've brought up two things here: 1) a "desperate hope" by critics that an investigation will get rid of a sitting president and 2) an (in your words) "hysterical" attention being paid to the allegations.

I don't deny that there is a strong, perhaps desperate hope among both camps (the "birther" camp and the "Russian-conspiracy" camp) that supporting evidence will nullify a president.  However you're making a false equivalence that Obama's birth certificate is on par with the already known and agreed upon transgressions surrounding people who have worked for the Trump campaign.

Put another way, we could ask "is this level of attention appropriate for the situation?"  Unlike Obama's birth certificate, the 2016 election has generated five federal investigations (two in the senate, two in the house, plus the special council), and it has resulted in multiple criminal charges after a very short time (by special council standards).

There's no equivalency here.

Wexler

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1047 on: November 28, 2017, 11:44:29 AM »
Just checking in, I see that you're all desperately hoping something is found. It's little like the Obama birth certificate story
In what way does it bear any resemblance at all to the Obama birther conspiracy?
The 'desperate hope' makes it feel quite similar. Sorry ya'll but thesvenster and I do recognize the same hysterically absurd tune being played in different venues.

And when you recognized people making outlandish claims about Obama's birth certificate, I assume you periodically "checked in" to assure them that they were being fools?  According to you, both claims are absurd, so I can only assume that your dedication to reasoned discourse required you to chastise your own side for desperate hope.  I guessing not, because [reasons].

Btw-I'm not at all agreeing with you.  These things aren't the same, other than that the cheeto dust on some guy in his mom's basement doing "analysis" on the birth certificate will be the same orange color as Paul Manafort's prison jumpsuit.

Just Joe

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1048 on: November 30, 2017, 12:23:11 PM »
So in summary:

the Trump group plus GOP supporters are trying to muddy up the news media to distract us all while they and their friends try to derail any and all regulations so they collectively can pocket as much money as possible at the expense of the rest of our nation and possibly our allies as well.

Too simplified or inaccurate?

What would the USA look like the GOP and their supporters got everything they wanted? Feudal Europe? A dictatorship? 1953? The would-be differences are overblown by media hyperbole?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 12:29:41 PM by Just Joe »

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1049 on: November 30, 2017, 12:31:30 PM »
What would the USA look like the GOP and their supporters got everything they wanted? Feudal Europe? A dictatorship?

Russia.  The USA would look a lot more like Russia, if the GOP got everything they wanted.  A corrupt oligarchy where power and wealth are concentrated among the political allies of the defacto emperor-for-life.  Democracy treated as a farce, a public tool subverted by state corruption.  Murder of political adversaries routinely carried out in public.  Warlike expansion undertaken in the name of patriotism.  Most of the nation too deeply impoverished to care about anything but survival, while the favored political elite become the wealthiest individuals on the planet.  Bears everywhere.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 02:25:06 PM by sol »