Author Topic: Twitter  (Read 98439 times)

LennStar

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #500 on: February 25, 2023, 12:06:45 PM »
Msuk probably thought his programmers would be slacking off too much with a tool named slack.

Psychstache

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #501 on: February 25, 2023, 12:18:09 PM »
Msuk probably thought his programmers would be slacking off too much with a tool named slack.

Fun fact: Slack was actually an acronym

Searchable library of all company knowledge.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #502 on: February 25, 2023, 02:01:47 PM »
In a bid to cut costs, Twitter cut off Slack. Or maybe the accounts payable person was fired because Jira was yanked too.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/24/23613288/twitter-slack-jira-outages-performance-degradation

Someone realized that bug and feature tracking was essential for a company developing software; Jira was restored.
Twitter management is looking less and less like the masterwork of a business genius and more like a bunch of random directives impulsively flung at people during meetings. There's zero respect for institutional knowledge, possibly talented people, processes honed over years of careful lean analysis, or even the basic tooling like Slack or Jira.

Of course, Twitter can continue being Twitter and earn ad dollars even if no one changes the software or fixes a single bug for the next 5 years. Maybe taking a Craigslist-like route to profitable obsolescence is Musk's plan, but how does one recoup $42B that way?

Actually it's looking more and more like there is no plan and decisions are being made on an emotional basis. Perhaps Musk was once a sharp CEO who could make impossible things happen, but now he's past his prime, or wallowing in the mental illness of narcissism and hubris.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #503 on: February 25, 2023, 09:14:28 PM »
Even if the erratic behavior, unpaid bills, rage firings, office supply auctions and constant drama are merely exaggerated in the news and not an entirely accurate representation of what’s going on inside Twitter*, it goes to show that Musk’s hubris has its risks. He is neither a genius nor able to control all media.

I saw that Biden praised Tesla in a tweet and thought now *that* is smart: Understanding that praising Musk is the way to immediately mollify him.

*but it certainly does seem to be a mess and is also possibly beginning to degrade technically as a service according to some users

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #504 on: February 25, 2023, 09:18:00 PM »
On the mental illness angle, I have to go back to the early days of this thread when I noted Jaron Lanier’s essay on Twitter Sickness (something like that). I’ve seen it happen so much with YouTubers too, where they seem to start out interesting and unconventional, but with fame become desperately click-baity and extremist, pandering to their worst fans.

LennStar

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #505 on: February 26, 2023, 01:35:53 AM »
On the mental illness angle, I have to go back to the early days of this thread when I noted Jaron Lanier’s essay on Twitter Sickness (something like that). I’ve seen it happen so much with YouTubers too, where they seem to start out interesting and unconventional, but with fame become desperately click-baity and extremist, pandering to their worst fans.
THat has nothing to to with twitter or youtube. That is just the medium. A preacher in the church or a newspaper writer would be the same. Or for that matter any other "public" position. Attention whores are real and have always been.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #506 on: February 26, 2023, 10:37:30 AM »
On the mental illness angle, I have to go back to the early days of this thread when I noted Jaron Lanier’s essay on Twitter Sickness (something like that). I’ve seen it happen so much with YouTubers too, where they seem to start out interesting and unconventional, but with fame become desperately click-baity and extremist, pandering to their worst fans.
THat has nothing to to with twitter or youtube. That is just the medium. A preacher in the church or a newspaper writer would be the same. Or for that matter any other "public" position. Attention whores are real and have always been.
I don't think the attention whores have ever had tools like YT or Twitter though.

Travis

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #507 on: February 26, 2023, 12:05:05 PM »
« Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 07:37:59 PM by Travis »

FireLane

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #508 on: February 27, 2023, 07:53:42 AM »
On the mental illness angle, I have to go back to the early days of this thread when I noted Jaron Lanier’s essay on Twitter Sickness (something like that). I’ve seen it happen so much with YouTubers too, where they seem to start out interesting and unconventional, but with fame become desperately click-baity and extremist, pandering to their worst fans.

That reminds me of this really good essay on "audience capture":

https://gurwinder.substack.com/p/the-perils-of-audience-capture

It's about how YouTube (and other social media) trains us to chase the high of bigger and bigger numbers. Social-media stars and influencers get addicted to it, which makes them hostage to what their audience wants. They start creating more and more of the content that gets the biggest response.

This results in them becoming more exaggerated versions of themselves, sometimes to the point of reckless or self-destructive behavior. It's very possible that this is what's happening to Elon Musk.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #509 on: February 27, 2023, 10:14:44 PM »
It’s not just the influencers and politicians. I see it in friends and acquaintances on regular old social media. It gets kind of tiresome, and I wonder if they actually believe their own BS.  (I think they do.)

Psychstache

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #510 on: February 28, 2023, 04:25:16 PM »
It’s not just the influencers and politicians. I see it in friends and acquaintances on regular old social media. It gets kind of tiresome, and I wonder if they actually believe their own BS.  (I think they do.)

I just don't care anymore. True believer or opportunist, you both suck equally in my book.

Travis

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #511 on: March 07, 2023, 04:33:27 PM »
In the latest episode of Twitter's labor relations, one of the 200 recently terminated had this experience with the boss:

https://twitter.com/mattbinder/status/1632942281362636801?s=46&t=Op3umXgaP1ZJVKqCZmKwNQ

https://twitter.com/dsquareddigest/status/1633117991880597507

https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/06/twitter-acquihires-creative-agency-ueno-to-help-design-new-products/

https://www.icelandreview.com/news/haraldur-thorleifsson-sweeps-person-of-the-year-awards/

From what I've gathered, this guy sold his company to Twitter two years ago with an agreement that he'd stay on to help out drawing down his buyout as a salary (if fired he gets the balance). I haven't been able to find the total buyout price, but it appears to be at least $8.5million.  Musk fired him in the last round that I mentioned, and the guy went public with him to discuss since he was locked out of his computer and nobody contacted him until after this Tweet discussion. It quickly turned into a flame war with Musk  trying to shame him for his disability-caused alleged lack of productivity. Lots of chatter today about just how much Musk is on the hook for as far as this guy's buyout package, potential lawsuit for disability discrimination, and if he'll try to stiff this guy like he's done with other labor disputes.

Travis

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FINate

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #513 on: March 07, 2023, 05:06:43 PM »
In the latest episode of Twitter's labor relations, one of the 200 recently terminated had this experience with the boss:

https://twitter.com/mattbinder/status/1632942281362636801?s=46&t=Op3umXgaP1ZJVKqCZmKwNQ

https://twitter.com/dsquareddigest/status/1633117991880597507

https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/06/twitter-acquihires-creative-agency-ueno-to-help-design-new-products/

https://www.icelandreview.com/news/haraldur-thorleifsson-sweeps-person-of-the-year-awards/

From what I've gathered, this guy sold his company to Twitter two years ago with an agreement that he'd stay on to help out drawing down his buyout as a salary (if fired he gets the balance). I haven't been able to find the total buyout price, but it appears to be at least $8.5million.  Musk fired him in the last round that I mentioned, and the guy went public with him to discuss since he was locked out of his computer and nobody contacted him until after this Tweet discussion. It quickly turned into a flame war with Musk  trying to shame him for his disability-caused alleged lack of productivity. Lots of chatter today about just how much Musk is on the hook for as far as this guy's buyout package, potential lawsuit for disability discrimination, and if he'll try to stiff this guy like he's done with other labor disputes.

The employee, Haraldur Thorleifsson, suffers from muscular dystrophy and he's still out there working even though he struggles to use a keyboard and mouse. And Musk is shaming him... what a complete dumpster fire. Much respect to Mr Thorleifsson, he's 10x the man Musk will ever be.

bacchi

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #514 on: March 07, 2023, 05:51:52 PM »

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #515 on: March 07, 2023, 07:15:01 PM »
Another comment noted that perhaps Musk didn’t know what Figma (legit web design tool) was and thought it was a play on Ligma (frat humor).

But yeah wow goes to show there are amounts of money that cause him to change his behavior after all. I mean makes sense considering he was auctioning office furniture.

Even in his apology he can’t take full ownership, says “he was told” stuff when clearly he was just reacting to a tweet.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 07:16:56 PM by Fru-Gal »

Travis

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #516 on: March 07, 2023, 08:29:08 PM »
Another comment noted that perhaps Musk didn’t know what Figma (legit web design tool) was and thought it was a play on Ligma (frat humor).

But yeah wow goes to show there are amounts of money that cause him to change his behavior after all. I mean makes sense considering he was auctioning office furniture.

Even in his apology he can’t take full ownership, says “he was told” stuff when clearly he was just reacting to a tweet.

Aside from the not-quite owning the mea culpa, it also implies he did a discrimination/hostile work environment/breach of contract lawsuit speed run all day long based on a rumor somebody told him.

Metalcat

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #517 on: March 07, 2023, 09:23:47 PM »
Another comment noted that perhaps Musk didn’t know what Figma (legit web design tool) was and thought it was a play on Ligma (frat humor).

But yeah wow goes to show there are amounts of money that cause him to change his behavior after all. I mean makes sense considering he was auctioning office furniture.

Even in his apology he can’t take full ownership, says “he was told” stuff when clearly he was just reacting to a tweet.

Category is: shit every employer knows not to do in response to a settlement conflict with an employee with a disability

-Reveal confidential disability information
-Say the employee has no value due to their disability
-Challenge the validity of the person's disability by claiming they can do some other, unrelated task
-Do it all publicly on social media
-Actually owe the employee 9 figures for the purchase of their business

I think that's BINGO

I mean, it couldn't be much worse than if he had kicked an employee out of a wheelchair, pointed and laughed and said "hardcore employees don't need ramps!"

Like I have faced some of the dumbfuckiest dumbfuck business owners in my consulting years, and even the worst of them would know not to do what Musk did here.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 09:26:08 PM by Metalcat »

GuitarStv

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #518 on: March 08, 2023, 07:08:51 AM »
Guess this must be another example of that genius level 12 dimensional chess game that Musk is playing and nobody else can see.  "Let's rip on the disabled philanthropist that we owe tons of money to.  To me, the illustrious Elon that totally seems like a solid plan for business growth!"

What a bumbling asshole.

FireLane

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #519 on: March 08, 2023, 07:25:17 AM »
I read a column today predicting that Twitter has about six months left to live:

https://davekarpf.substack.com/p/how-long-does-twitter-have-left

The two legal time bombs it's facing are laid-off employees who haven't been paid the severance they were promised, and Elon!Twitter's DGAF attitude about user privacy which is likely to result in huge fines from both US and EU regulators.

The column predicts that when the fines start racking up, Elon will declare bankruptcy and pivot to claiming he could have saved Twitter, if only the evil government regulators would've let him.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #520 on: March 08, 2023, 09:37:48 AM »
I wonder what the Twitter Board feels about their decision to force him to go through with the sale now?

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #521 on: March 08, 2023, 10:09:54 AM »
I imagine the board is fine with it, they had the duty to push for the sale. But I wonder about Jack, and the Saudi investors etc. Also in Musk’s texts during discovery for the trial there was that interchange with his ex-wife where she begged him to destroy it. However I don’t think there’s a plan, he’s just impulsive, erratic, and addicted to the app.

Also so many high-profile legal cases make it clear, DON’T TEXT incriminating info. Man!

OurTown

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #522 on: March 09, 2023, 10:05:53 AM »
Well I logged off permanently after Elon purchased, so someone needs to let me know when it finally crashes.

Psychstache

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #523 on: March 09, 2023, 10:46:03 AM »
I imagine the board is fine with it, they had the duty to push for the sale. But I wonder about Jack, and the Saudi investors etc. Also in Musk’s texts during discovery for the trial there was that interchange with his ex-wife where she begged him to destroy it. However I don’t think there’s a plan, he’s just impulsive, erratic, and addicted to the app.

Also so many high-profile legal cases make it clear, DON’T TEXT incriminating info. Man!

+1. The simplest explanation is most often the correct one.

LennStar

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #524 on: March 09, 2023, 11:35:22 AM »
Well I logged off permanently after Elon purchased, so someone needs to let me know when it finally crashes.
The last estimate I read is half a year until Twitter can no longer run. But that is all and everything "Kaffeesatzleserei", as we Germans would say (reading coffee grounds).

Travis

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #525 on: March 09, 2023, 01:30:38 PM »
https://archive.li/s1L15


Former managers alleging "Musk asked us to name our best employees, and then replaced us with them."
In addition to Twitter not paying rent, it's also not paying its Amazon Web Services bill ($70 million)
Corporate credit card bills not being paid, and the card holders being hounded by the bank. Supervisors and Accounting staff nonexistent to fix this.
Most of the surviving staff are H1B visa holders and likely stuck working 12 hour days
Change Management is nonexistent. Code is changed on Musk's whim, and then everyone must scramble to fix the fallout.

Villanelle

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #526 on: March 09, 2023, 01:58:16 PM »
https://archive.li/s1L15


Former managers alleging "Musk asked us to name our best employees, and then replaced us with them."
In addition to Twitter not paying rent, it's also not paying its Amazon Web Services bill ($70 million)
Corporate credit card bills not being paid, and the card holders being hounded by the bank. Supervisors and Accounting staff nonexistent to fix this.
Most of the surviving staff are H1B visa holders and likely stuck working 12 hour days
Change Management is nonexistent. Code is changed on Musk's whim, and then everyone must scramble to fix the fallout.

I am woefully ignorant about this kind of tech stuff--but does the bolded mean that somehow Amazon supplies the internet service for Twitter?  Like, if Amazon turned this off, Twitter as a web entity would just... stop? 

GuitarStv

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #527 on: March 09, 2023, 02:02:53 PM »
AWS is a cloud service that hosts and stores data for companies.  I don't know the specifics of what Amazon does for Twitter . . . but if they are hosting critical services then it could well be that if they flip the switch Twitter stops.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #528 on: March 09, 2023, 02:05:12 PM »
It means Twitter runs on Amazon Cloud (Amazon Web Services) which is hosted from data centers all around the world. Technically yes it could be shut off, though you can also run your own cloud services on your own servers. But most web companies run on Amazon AFAIK.

Sibley

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #529 on: March 09, 2023, 02:36:13 PM »
Oh, to be a fly on the wall when Bezos calls Musk and demands to know why Twitter isn't paying the Amazon bill. Because you know they know each other.

trollwithamustache

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #530 on: March 09, 2023, 02:56:42 PM »
In the latest episode of Twitter's labor relations, one of the 200 recently terminated had this experience with the boss:

https://twitter.com/mattbinder/status/1632942281362636801?s=46&t=Op3umXgaP1ZJVKqCZmKwNQ

https://twitter.com/dsquareddigest/status/1633117991880597507

https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/06/twitter-acquihires-creative-agency-ueno-to-help-design-new-products/

https://www.icelandreview.com/news/haraldur-thorleifsson-sweeps-person-of-the-year-awards/

From what I've gathered, this guy sold his company to Twitter two years ago with an agreement that he'd stay on to help out drawing down his buyout as a salary (if fired he gets the balance). I haven't been able to find the total buyout price, but it appears to be at least $8.5million.  Musk fired him in the last round that I mentioned, and the guy went public with him to discuss since he was locked out of his computer and nobody contacted him until after this Tweet discussion. It quickly turned into a flame war with Musk  trying to shame him for his disability-caused alleged lack of productivity. Lots of chatter today about just how much Musk is on the hook for as far as this guy's buyout package, potential lawsuit for disability discrimination, and if he'll try to stiff this guy like he's done with other labor disputes.

The employee, Haraldur Thorleifsson, suffers from muscular dystrophy and he's still out there working even though he struggles to use a keyboard and mouse. And Musk is shaming him... what a complete dumpster fire. Much respect to Mr Thorleifsson, he's 10x the man Musk will ever be.

This story is so weird and sorta makes me sympathetic to Musk. This Haraldur character has a 100 million dollar contract with Twitter. Yeah, that's right, he sold his company to twitter for 100 millions dollars. So I've never had a contract that big so maybe not going through legal is totally normal. What is he doing asking contractual questions via twitter? he's trying to stir it up and everyone is going for it!

GuitarStv

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #531 on: March 09, 2023, 03:03:33 PM »
In the latest episode of Twitter's labor relations, one of the 200 recently terminated had this experience with the boss:

https://twitter.com/mattbinder/status/1632942281362636801?s=46&t=Op3umXgaP1ZJVKqCZmKwNQ

https://twitter.com/dsquareddigest/status/1633117991880597507

https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/06/twitter-acquihires-creative-agency-ueno-to-help-design-new-products/

https://www.icelandreview.com/news/haraldur-thorleifsson-sweeps-person-of-the-year-awards/

From what I've gathered, this guy sold his company to Twitter two years ago with an agreement that he'd stay on to help out drawing down his buyout as a salary (if fired he gets the balance). I haven't been able to find the total buyout price, but it appears to be at least $8.5million.  Musk fired him in the last round that I mentioned, and the guy went public with him to discuss since he was locked out of his computer and nobody contacted him until after this Tweet discussion. It quickly turned into a flame war with Musk  trying to shame him for his disability-caused alleged lack of productivity. Lots of chatter today about just how much Musk is on the hook for as far as this guy's buyout package, potential lawsuit for disability discrimination, and if he'll try to stiff this guy like he's done with other labor disputes.

The employee, Haraldur Thorleifsson, suffers from muscular dystrophy and he's still out there working even though he struggles to use a keyboard and mouse. And Musk is shaming him... what a complete dumpster fire. Much respect to Mr Thorleifsson, he's 10x the man Musk will ever be.

This story is so weird and sorta makes me sympathetic to Musk. This Haraldur character has a 100 million dollar contract with Twitter. Yeah, that's right, he sold his company to twitter for 100 millions dollars. So I've never had a contract that big so maybe not going through legal is totally normal. What is he doing asking contractual questions via twitter? he's trying to stir it up and everyone is going for it!

Musk fired most of twitter's HR, and the few employees remaining were not able to tell Thorleifsson if he was still hired, 9 days after his work access was cut to his computer.  Given the ongoing technical problems for workers (like failing to pay Jira and Slack bills and having these services cut off), in combination with no information from HR he wasn't sure what was going on  The company is being so badly run by Musk that there really wasn't anywhere else to turn.

Seems silly to feel bad for the ridiculous situation that Musk created for himself, and then worsened by being a giant asshole.

trollwithamustache

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #532 on: March 09, 2023, 04:18:10 PM »
In the latest episode of Twitter's labor relations, one of the 200 recently terminated had this experience with the boss:

https://twitter.com/mattbinder/status/1632942281362636801?s=46&t=Op3umXgaP1ZJVKqCZmKwNQ

https://twitter.com/dsquareddigest/status/1633117991880597507

https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/06/twitter-acquihires-creative-agency-ueno-to-help-design-new-products/

https://www.icelandreview.com/news/haraldur-thorleifsson-sweeps-person-of-the-year-awards/

From what I've gathered, this guy sold his company to Twitter two years ago with an agreement that he'd stay on to help out drawing down his buyout as a salary (if fired he gets the balance). I haven't been able to find the total buyout price, but it appears to be at least $8.5million.  Musk fired him in the last round that I mentioned, and the guy went public with him to discuss since he was locked out of his computer and nobody contacted him until after this Tweet discussion. It quickly turned into a flame war with Musk  trying to shame him for his disability-caused alleged lack of productivity. Lots of chatter today about just how much Musk is on the hook for as far as this guy's buyout package, potential lawsuit for disability discrimination, and if he'll try to stiff this guy like he's done with other labor disputes.

The employee, Haraldur Thorleifsson, suffers from muscular dystrophy and he's still out there working even though he struggles to use a keyboard and mouse. And Musk is shaming him... what a complete dumpster fire. Much respect to Mr Thorleifsson, he's 10x the man Musk will ever be.

This story is so weird and sorta makes me sympathetic to Musk. This Haraldur character has a 100 million dollar contract with Twitter. Yeah, that's right, he sold his company to twitter for 100 millions dollars. So I've never had a contract that big so maybe not going through legal is totally normal. What is he doing asking contractual questions via twitter? he's trying to stir it up and everyone is going for it!

Musk fired most of twitter's HR, and the few employees remaining were not able to tell Thorleifsson if he was still hired, 9 days after his work access was cut to his computer.  Given the ongoing technical problems for workers (like failing to pay Jira and Slack bills and having these services cut off), in combination with no information from HR he wasn't sure what was going on  The company is being so badly run by Musk that there really wasn't anywhere else to turn.

Seems silly to feel bad for the ridiculous situation that Musk created for himself, and then worsened by being a giant asshole.

Big buyout contracts are not handled by HR. (HR being mostly idiots and a handful of sycophants.) This guy must have had other high level contacts. He's also got his lawyers from the buyout deal. It's just weird.




Villanelle

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #533 on: March 09, 2023, 04:25:32 PM »
In the latest episode of Twitter's labor relations, one of the 200 recently terminated had this experience with the boss:

https://twitter.com/mattbinder/status/1632942281362636801?s=46&t=Op3umXgaP1ZJVKqCZmKwNQ

https://twitter.com/dsquareddigest/status/1633117991880597507

https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/06/twitter-acquihires-creative-agency-ueno-to-help-design-new-products/

https://www.icelandreview.com/news/haraldur-thorleifsson-sweeps-person-of-the-year-awards/

From what I've gathered, this guy sold his company to Twitter two years ago with an agreement that he'd stay on to help out drawing down his buyout as a salary (if fired he gets the balance). I haven't been able to find the total buyout price, but it appears to be at least $8.5million.  Musk fired him in the last round that I mentioned, and the guy went public with him to discuss since he was locked out of his computer and nobody contacted him until after this Tweet discussion. It quickly turned into a flame war with Musk  trying to shame him for his disability-caused alleged lack of productivity. Lots of chatter today about just how much Musk is on the hook for as far as this guy's buyout package, potential lawsuit for disability discrimination, and if he'll try to stiff this guy like he's done with other labor disputes.

The employee, Haraldur Thorleifsson, suffers from muscular dystrophy and he's still out there working even though he struggles to use a keyboard and mouse. And Musk is shaming him... what a complete dumpster fire. Much respect to Mr Thorleifsson, he's 10x the man Musk will ever be.

This story is so weird and sorta makes me sympathetic to Musk. This Haraldur character has a 100 million dollar contract with Twitter. Yeah, that's right, he sold his company to twitter for 100 millions dollars. So I've never had a contract that big so maybe not going through legal is totally normal. What is he doing asking contractual questions via twitter? he's trying to stir it up and everyone is going for it!

Musk fired most of twitter's HR, and the few employees remaining were not able to tell Thorleifsson if he was still hired, 9 days after his work access was cut to his computer.  Given the ongoing technical problems for workers (like failing to pay Jira and Slack bills and having these services cut off), in combination with no information from HR he wasn't sure what was going on  The company is being so badly run by Musk that there really wasn't anywhere else to turn.

Seems silly to feel bad for the ridiculous situation that Musk created for himself, and then worsened by being a giant asshole.

Big buyout contracts are not handled by HR. (HR being mostly idiots and a handful of sycophants.) This guy must have had other high level contacts. He's also got his lawyers from the buyout deal. It's just weird.

My understanding is that he reached out several ways and didn't hear anything.  His access to everything in internal was cut off.  So if no one was answering his calls and emails, what was he supposed to do?  And why should he have to pay his lawyers to find out if he still has a job and if not then how they plan to pay him the millions they owe him?  Seems perfectly reasonable to take it to the one place where you know the boss hangs out and actually responds--Twitter--once you've tried all the traditional routes and heard crickets. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #534 on: March 09, 2023, 05:32:02 PM »
Big buyout contracts are not handled by HR. (HR being mostly idiots and a handful of sycophants.) This guy must have had other high level contacts. He's also got his lawyers from the buyout deal. It's just weird.

Thorleifsson was not asking for 100 million though.  He was an employee.  He specifically asked to receive his payout in the form of salary when twitter bought his company because he wanted to keep doing the job that he loved.  As part of his employment contract, he was to be paid the 100 million only if fired - something that HR would certainly have known.  Assuming they hadn't been fired by Musk.

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #535 on: March 09, 2023, 07:38:05 PM »
So...  when is Twitter going to be hit with civil actions to try and recoup all these unpaid obligations?   100M isn't pocket change, and it's only one of many...

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #536 on: March 10, 2023, 05:58:41 AM »
Big buyout contracts are not handled by HR. (HR being mostly idiots and a handful of sycophants.) This guy must have had other high level contacts. He's also got his lawyers from the buyout deal. It's just weird.

Thorleifsson was not asking for 100 million though.  He was an employee.  He specifically asked to receive his payout in the form of salary when twitter bought his company because he wanted to keep doing the job that he loved.  As part of his employment contract, he was to be paid the 100 million only if fired - something that HR would certainly have known.  Assuming they hadn't been fired by Musk.

It's even better than that, the guy's a national hero in Iceland, literally -

Quote
You see, Halli Thorleifsson isn’t your regular office drone. Aside from being a noted philanthropist and 2022 Icelandic Person of the Year (awarded by RUV), he’s the founder of a creative technology services company known as Ueno.

Back in early 2021, Thorleifsson sold Ueno to Twitter with the purchase price scheduled to be paid incrementally in the form of an ongoing salary to maximise the tax he could offer Iceland; a decision the great man opted for as a “thank you” to his home country’s disability benefits.

https://www.bosshunting.com.au/hustle/elon-musk-firing-halli-thorleifsson-twitter-100-million-mistake/

Metalcat

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #537 on: March 10, 2023, 06:19:38 AM »
Big buyout contracts are not handled by HR. (HR being mostly idiots and a handful of sycophants.) This guy must have had other high level contacts. He's also got his lawyers from the buyout deal. It's just weird.

Thorleifsson was not asking for 100 million though.  He was an employee.  He specifically asked to receive his payout in the form of salary when twitter bought his company because he wanted to keep doing the job that he loved.  As part of his employment contract, he was to be paid the 100 million only if fired - something that HR would certainly have known.  Assuming they hadn't been fired by Musk.

It's even better than that, the guy's a national hero in Iceland, literally -

Quote
You see, Halli Thorleifsson isn’t your regular office drone. Aside from being a noted philanthropist and 2022 Icelandic Person of the Year (awarded by RUV), he’s the founder of a creative technology services company known as Ueno.

Back in early 2021, Thorleifsson sold Ueno to Twitter with the purchase price scheduled to be paid incrementally in the form of an ongoing salary to maximise the tax he could offer Iceland; a decision the great man opted for as a “thank you” to his home country’s disability benefits.

https://www.bosshunting.com.au/hustle/elon-musk-firing-halli-thorleifsson-twitter-100-million-mistake/

Sure, but he can't even type...

:P

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #538 on: March 10, 2023, 12:34:07 PM »
This is a textbook example of public sentiment going against a guy previously considered unassailable… For me the best example of how the barrage of bad news reflected actual man-on-the-street sentiment was the boos at the Musk appearance at the San Francisco Dave Chappelle show. That had to be a show filled with exactly the demographic Musk used to appeal to, heavily male, willing to laugh at “wokeness”, able to spend upwards of $200 on comedy tickets, probably even a large percentage of Tesla owners...

There is a lot of unpredictable magic in how this sentiment goes… see Trump (from cringe to president), Gore (“I invented the Internet”), Howard Dean (“Dean scream” — how that was able to derail him is really crazy). But some do come back from it (Mike Tyson, Martha Stewart, Nixon?). I’m not saying the catch phrases are real in the case of Dean and Gore, just that it’s amazing how one person can be painted in the press as bad/annoying and another can do no wrong.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #539 on: March 10, 2023, 12:44:12 PM »
This is a textbook example of public sentiment going against a guy previously considered unassailable… For me the best example of how the barrage of bad news reflected actual man-on-the-street sentiment was the boos at the Musk appearance at the San Francisco Dave Chappelle show. That had to be a show filled with exactly the demographic Musk used to appeal to, heavily male, willing to laugh at “wokeness”, able to spend upwards of $200 on comedy tickets, probably even a large percentage of Tesla owners...

There is a lot of unpredictable magic in how this sentiment goes… see Trump (from cringe to president), Gore (“I invented the Internet”), Howard Dean (“Dean scream” — how that was able to derail him is really crazy). But some do come back from it (Mike Tyson, Martha Stewart, Nixon?). I’m not saying the catch phrases are real in the case of Dean and Gore, just that it’s amazing how one person can be painted in the press as bad/annoying and another can do no wrong.
I agree. The Musk stans are being drowned out, or converting to the other side. The "genius" facade has a Twitter-sized hole in it, and his rule breaker image now looks a lot more like narcissism and entitlement.

Equally amazing is how public sentiment trails along with whatever the influencers are saying. We trust the influencers to tell us which strangers are the good people and then we trust them again to tell us those same people are now the bad ones. Why are some people still fans of Kanye West, given all that he did, but Howard Dean got run out of town on a rail for being made into a TV meme?

jinga nation

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #540 on: March 10, 2023, 01:01:00 PM »
https://archive.li/s1L15


Former managers alleging "Musk asked us to name our best employees, and then replaced us with them."
In addition to Twitter not paying rent, it's also not paying its Amazon Web Services bill ($70 million)
Corporate credit card bills not being paid, and the card holders being hounded by the bank. Supervisors and Accounting staff nonexistent to fix this.
Most of the surviving staff are H1B visa holders and likely stuck working 12 hour days
Change Management is nonexistent. Code is changed on Musk's whim, and then everyone must scramble to fix the fallout.

I am woefully ignorant about this kind of tech stuff--but does the bolded mean that somehow Amazon supplies the internet service for Twitter?  Like, if Amazon turned this off, Twitter as a web entity would just... stop?

AWS will send bills and notices to accounts that haven't paid. On the human side, account managers will contact their POC at Twitter. This will happen for a couple of months or year, depending on the customer relationship, spending, etc.
It may be that the emails to which automated billing notices are sent are no longer being monitored by a human. And/or the people on that team at Twitter are still around. And/or they've been explicitly been given orders to ignore. And/or it is a total cluster fudge of epic proportions inside the Twitdome.

I'm running low on popcorn. Time to buy another 25 lb bag of organic, multi-colored, vegan, with pink Himalayan salt, and grass-fed moo moo NZ butter coated. Also, have to buy more chairs to set them around the dumpster fire to watch the action from all angles.

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #541 on: March 10, 2023, 01:08:00 PM »
This is a textbook example of public sentiment going against a guy previously considered unassailable… For me the best example of how the barrage of bad news reflected actual man-on-the-street sentiment was the boos at the Musk appearance at the San Francisco Dave Chappelle show. That had to be a show filled with exactly the demographic Musk used to appeal to, heavily male, willing to laugh at “wokeness”, able to spend upwards of $200 on comedy tickets, probably even a large percentage of Tesla owners...

There is a lot of unpredictable magic in how this sentiment goes… see Trump (from cringe to president), Gore (“I invented the Internet”), Howard Dean (“Dean scream” — how that was able to derail him is really crazy). But some do come back from it (Mike Tyson, Martha Stewart, Nixon?). I’m not saying the catch phrases are real in the case of Dean and Gore, just that it’s amazing how one person can be painted in the press as bad/annoying and another can do no wrong.
I agree. The Musk stans are being drowned out, or converting to the other side. The "genius" facade has a Twitter-sized hole in it, and his rule breaker image now looks a lot more like narcissism and entitlement.

Equally amazing is how public sentiment trails along with whatever the influencers are saying. We trust the influencers to tell us which strangers are the good people and then we trust them again to tell us those same people are now the bad ones. Why are some people still fans of Kanye West, given all that he did, but Howard Dean got run out of town on a rail for being made into a TV meme?

IDK. He's the richest person in the world and holds enormous influence. I really keep hoping it's just bad coverage and missteps and that he'll grow and mature into the tech world leader role that he's positioned to be, but I don't need influencers to tell me that calling employees useless because they're disabled is a dumbfuck move.

I didn't really buy the ultra genius narrative and I don't quite buy the evil villain narrative. I just think he's someone who has amassed so much wealth and power that he doesn't feel the need to listen to any criticism.

As I was saying in another thread, sustained success takes a village, it takes a combo of hype people and sober second opinions, and I've seen enough hugely successful people fail because they started feeling like they no longer needed their sober second opinions, and that's exactly how Musk seems to be behaving.

People in huge power need to make so many decisions and if they start insulating themselves against valid criticism, their entire world views can get warped, and a lot of persecution fantasy sets in, which we are seeing.

Now, his early success was so massive, he may be just too big to fail. So I don't know what happens when the person is an economy unto themselves.

For me, I was personally profoundly disappointed in him when he had this massive opportunity to step up as a world leader during the pandemic and instead he went full-on whiny bitch. That to me signaled that something has gone very wrong with who he is choosing to take advice from, if anyone at this point.

The air at the top gets very thin and people's thinking can get extremely strange when left up there alone for too long.

GuitarStv

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #542 on: March 10, 2023, 01:24:03 PM »
I don't quite buy the evil villain narrative. I just think he's someone who has amassed so much wealth and power that he doesn't feel the need to listen to any criticism.

The thing is, when you're divorced from reality in that way while also controlling monumental amounts of power/wealth it's all but inevitable that you will become an evil villain.  We all have asshole impulses that need the occasional scolding to keep in check.  Without listening to the scolding you start to go off the deep end.

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #543 on: March 10, 2023, 01:29:59 PM »
I wonder what the Twitter Board feels about their decision to force him to go through with the sale now?

They probably still love it.  They got Elon to pay way above market value.   

ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #544 on: March 10, 2023, 01:38:09 PM »
This is a textbook example of public sentiment going against a guy previously considered unassailable… For me the best example of how the barrage of bad news reflected actual man-on-the-street sentiment was the boos at the Musk appearance at the San Francisco Dave Chappelle show. That had to be a show filled with exactly the demographic Musk used to appeal to, heavily male, willing to laugh at “wokeness”, able to spend upwards of $200 on comedy tickets, probably even a large percentage of Tesla owners...

There is a lot of unpredictable magic in how this sentiment goes… see Trump (from cringe to president), Gore (“I invented the Internet”), Howard Dean (“Dean scream” — how that was able to derail him is really crazy). But some do come back from it (Mike Tyson, Martha Stewart, Nixon?). I’m not saying the catch phrases are real in the case of Dean and Gore, just that it’s amazing how one person can be painted in the press as bad/annoying and another can do no wrong.
I agree. The Musk stans are being drowned out, or converting to the other side. The "genius" facade has a Twitter-sized hole in it, and his rule breaker image now looks a lot more like narcissism and entitlement.

Equally amazing is how public sentiment trails along with whatever the influencers are saying. We trust the influencers to tell us which strangers are the good people and then we trust them again to tell us those same people are now the bad ones. Why are some people still fans of Kanye West, given all that he did, but Howard Dean got run out of town on a rail for being made into a TV meme?

IDK. He's the richest person in the world and holds enormous influence. I really keep hoping it's just bad coverage and missteps and that he'll grow and mature into the tech world leader role that he's positioned to be, but I don't need influencers to tell me that calling employees useless because they're disabled is a dumbfuck move.

I didn't really buy the ultra genius narrative and I don't quite buy the evil villain narrative. I just think he's someone who has amassed so much wealth and power that he doesn't feel the need to listen to any criticism.

As I was saying in another thread, sustained success takes a village, it takes a combo of hype people and sober second opinions, and I've seen enough hugely successful people fail because they started feeling like they no longer needed their sober second opinions, and that's exactly how Musk seems to be behaving.

People in huge power need to make so many decisions and if they start insulating themselves against valid criticism, their entire world views can get warped, and a lot of persecution fantasy sets in, which we are seeing.

Now, his early success was so massive, he may be just too big to fail. So I don't know what happens when the person is an economy unto themselves.

For me, I was personally profoundly disappointed in him when he had this massive opportunity to step up as a world leader during the pandemic and instead he went full-on whiny bitch. That to me signaled that something has gone very wrong with who he is choosing to take advice from, if anyone at this point.

The air at the top gets very thin and people's thinking can get extremely strange when left up there alone for too long.
Agreed. The phrase "power corrupts" is often misunderstood to mean people in power will inevitably start taking bribes or something. I suggest a better understanding is that power corrupts the thought process, the social feedback mechanism which keeps us in alignment with cultural norms, relationships between people, and one's ability to obtain and process accurate information.

Dictators tend to lead their nations into disastrous errors for all these reasons (Hitler attacking Russia, Stalin's trust of Hitler plus his agricultural program, Mao's great leap, Zimbabwe under Mugabe, Putin...). Meanwhile the nations which make the best decisions over time tend to feature dissolution of power via Parliaments and relatively weak presidents/prime ministers.

Watch someone with a swarm of unconditional fans and yes-man advisors. They will fall in the end. The funny thing is how few people in positions of influence and power figure out how this natural process leads to ruin.

I wonder what the Twitter Board feels about their decision to force him to go through with the sale now?
They probably still love it.  They got Elon to pay way above market value.   
I suspect they feel Twitter is not their problem any more, and that they've done something heroic for extracting more shareholder value out of Twitter than was ever otherwise going to happen. Twitter shareholders hit the lottery when Musk agreed to buy the company for far more than it was worth, right before an economic slowdown, and just as the company's economic problems were coming into view. They managed to execute just in time. Twitter would have been a $20 stock today if Musk hadn't paid over fifty dollars a share. That's a win!

In a sense they did do something heroic for knocking Musk off his high horse and showing him to be fallible.

Metalcat

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #545 on: March 10, 2023, 01:39:15 PM »
I don't quite buy the evil villain narrative. I just think he's someone who has amassed so much wealth and power that he doesn't feel the need to listen to any criticism.

The thing is, when you're divorced from reality in that way while also controlling monumental amounts of power/wealth it's all but inevitable that you will become an evil villain.  We all have asshole impulses that need the occasional scolding to keep in check.  Without listening to the scolding you start to go off the deep end.

Yes, at a certain point being deranged and dangerous crosses easily into being evil. My point was just that I think he's being driven more by a delusional persecution complex rather than an evil intent at this point.

One of the most universal impacts I've seen of extreme wealth and power is overwhelming paranoia. In fact, it doesn't even take a ton of wealth and power to see people sink into paranoia and sense of persecution.

That's why maintaining solid counsel is so important, it keeps people in power from getting too warped and fucked up.

Telecaster

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #546 on: March 10, 2023, 01:48:18 PM »
Category is: shit every employer knows not to do in response to a settlement conflict with an employee with a disability

It is worse than that.  Most (or maybe all, as far as I know) employers won't say anything beyond confirming dates of employment and if the employee is re-hirable.  Saying anything else might hurt the former employee's chances at employment and open up the former employer to a defamation lawsuit. 

Musk--in front of millions of people--slammed this guy's work ethic and productivity.   So to recap, by responding the way did:

1.  Musk was able to prove he is big a alpha male douche bag
2.  Opened up Twitter to potentially a huge lawsuit

 The upside by responding the way he did is zero and the downside is huge.  How fucking dumb do you have to be? 

Metalcat

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #547 on: March 10, 2023, 01:50:05 PM »
This is a textbook example of public sentiment going against a guy previously considered unassailable… For me the best example of how the barrage of bad news reflected actual man-on-the-street sentiment was the boos at the Musk appearance at the San Francisco Dave Chappelle show. That had to be a show filled with exactly the demographic Musk used to appeal to, heavily male, willing to laugh at “wokeness”, able to spend upwards of $200 on comedy tickets, probably even a large percentage of Tesla owners...

There is a lot of unpredictable magic in how this sentiment goes… see Trump (from cringe to president), Gore (“I invented the Internet”), Howard Dean (“Dean scream” — how that was able to derail him is really crazy). But some do come back from it (Mike Tyson, Martha Stewart, Nixon?). I’m not saying the catch phrases are real in the case of Dean and Gore, just that it’s amazing how one person can be painted in the press as bad/annoying and another can do no wrong.
I agree. The Musk stans are being drowned out, or converting to the other side. The "genius" facade has a Twitter-sized hole in it, and his rule breaker image now looks a lot more like narcissism and entitlement.

Equally amazing is how public sentiment trails along with whatever the influencers are saying. We trust the influencers to tell us which strangers are the good people and then we trust them again to tell us those same people are now the bad ones. Why are some people still fans of Kanye West, given all that he did, but Howard Dean got run out of town on a rail for being made into a TV meme?

IDK. He's the richest person in the world and holds enormous influence. I really keep hoping it's just bad coverage and missteps and that he'll grow and mature into the tech world leader role that he's positioned to be, but I don't need influencers to tell me that calling employees useless because they're disabled is a dumbfuck move.

I didn't really buy the ultra genius narrative and I don't quite buy the evil villain narrative. I just think he's someone who has amassed so much wealth and power that he doesn't feel the need to listen to any criticism.

As I was saying in another thread, sustained success takes a village, it takes a combo of hype people and sober second opinions, and I've seen enough hugely successful people fail because they started feeling like they no longer needed their sober second opinions, and that's exactly how Musk seems to be behaving.

People in huge power need to make so many decisions and if they start insulating themselves against valid criticism, their entire world views can get warped, and a lot of persecution fantasy sets in, which we are seeing.

Now, his early success was so massive, he may be just too big to fail. So I don't know what happens when the person is an economy unto themselves.

For me, I was personally profoundly disappointed in him when he had this massive opportunity to step up as a world leader during the pandemic and instead he went full-on whiny bitch. That to me signaled that something has gone very wrong with who he is choosing to take advice from, if anyone at this point.

The air at the top gets very thin and people's thinking can get extremely strange when left up there alone for too long.
Agreed. The phrase "power corrupts" is often misunderstood to mean people in power will inevitably start taking bribes or something. I suggest a better understanding is that power corrupts the thought process, the social feedback mechanism which keeps us in alignment with cultural norms, relationships between people, and one's ability to obtain and process accurate information.

Dictators tend to lead their nations into disastrous errors for all these reasons (Hitler attacking Russia, Stalin's trust of Hitler plus his agricultural program, Mao's great leap, Zimbabwe under Mugabe, Putin...). Meanwhile the nations which make the best decisions over time tend to feature dissolution of power via Parliaments and relatively weak presidents/prime ministers.

Watch someone with a swarm of unconditional fans and yes-man advisors. They will fall in the end. The funny thing is how few people in positions of influence and power figure out how this natural process leads to ruin.

I wonder what the Twitter Board feels about their decision to force him to go through with the sale now?
They probably still love it.  They got Elon to pay way above market value.   
I suspect they feel Twitter is not their problem any more, and that they've done something heroic for extracting more shareholder value out of Twitter than was ever otherwise going to happen. Twitter shareholders hit the lottery when Musk agreed to buy the company for far more than it was worth, right before an economic slowdown, and just as the company's economic problems were coming into view. They managed to execute just in time. Twitter would have been a $20 stock today if Musk hadn't paid over fifty dollars a share. That's a win!

In a sense they did do something heroic for knocking Musk off his high horse and showing him to be fallible.

As I said in my previous post, the mechanism I've seen most often is the deranged paranoia that tends to happen. And it doesn't take a lot.

I've worked with a ton of clinic owners, and even just owning a 10M+ business pretty regularly makes the owner significantly fucked up. That's enough power and influence in that world to start feeling paranoid and like everyone wants something from you.

When they feel that paranoid, even helpful criticism starts feeling like a disloyal attack, like something menacing, with an ulterior motive. I don't think these people end up surrounded by "yes men" primarily because they feed their egos, I think it's more driven by intense fear.

I've just seen too many people rise to notable success and then turn on the trusted people who got them there with absolute conviction that they were out to get them.

Of course there's ego in there too, obviously, but fear is one of the most powerful motivators in the world.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #548 on: March 10, 2023, 01:57:00 PM »
That's why maintaining solid counsel is so important, it keeps people in power from getting too warped and fucked up.

I may be biased, but one sign things are messed up is likely that the lawyers are leaving. I have yet to post my most recent job departure story, which had multiple new stories about various issues, but there were serious leadership problems. At some point you wash your hands of the mess.

Metalcat

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #549 on: March 10, 2023, 02:02:04 PM »
That's why maintaining solid counsel is so important, it keeps people in power from getting too warped and fucked up.

I may be biased, but one sign things are messed up is likely that the lawyers are leaving. I have yet to post my most recent job departure story, which had multiple new stories about various issues, but there were serious leadership problems. At some point you wash your hands of the mess.

Yeah, it's really bad when the people you pay just for advice start bailing on you. Lawyers will stick around for literally anyone as long as they L.I.S.T.E.N.