Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 538284 times)

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7400 on: February 01, 2021, 02:01:20 PM »
Indeed I was surprised to receive a message from Sen. Richard Burr, a response to a phone message I had left him about the matter (Frankly, I'd forgotten about the message, Jan. 6 feels like a lifetime ago for so many reasons):

Thank you for contacting me with your thoughts regarding impeachment of President Trump. I appreciate hearing from you.
 
On January, 13, 2021, the House of Representatives voted to impeach President Trump for the “willful incitement of insurrection.” The Article of Impeachment has been sent to the Senate and the Senate is required to consider the article and its merit. President Trump’s impeachment trial will begin on February 9, 2021. It then takes a two-thirds majority vote in the Senate to convict. I will act, as the Constitution requires, as an impartial juror at the upcoming Senate trial, and I appreciate you taking the time to share your views on the subject with me.
 
That being said, the President bears responsibility for the violence that took place at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021, by promoting unfounded conspiracy theories and refusing to accept the will of American voters. I am pleased that Congress upheld its constitutional duty by certifying the results of the election.
 
Again, thank you for contacting me. Should you have additional questions or comments, please do not hesitate to let me know or visit my website at http://burr.senate.gov.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7401 on: February 03, 2021, 12:58:16 PM »
Can someone explain what this means: They will vote to remove Marjorie Taylor Greene from committee assignments.

Does that mean she still has a job but doesn't do anything? I don't get it!

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7402 on: February 03, 2021, 01:07:23 PM »
Can someone explain what this means: They will vote to remove Marjorie Taylor Greene from committee assignments.

Does that mean she still has a job but doesn't do anything? I don't get it!

Yeah something like that.  They did it to Steve King before with his "I don't understand why white supremacism has a bad name" (paraphrasing) statement.  They still get to vote on legislation and there are probably other things as well.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7403 on: February 03, 2021, 02:36:37 PM »
Can someone explain what this means: They will vote to remove Marjorie Taylor Greene from committee assignments.

Does that mean she still has a job but doesn't do anything? I don't get it!

I’d removed from committees she would still get to vote in every bill and debate on the floor. But the real power in congress comes from being in the Sub-committes, where legislation is drafted. In particular it allows one to block bills from getting a full vote. That’s what they are trying to take from Greene.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7404 on: February 04, 2021, 06:42:54 AM »
Under business as usual, I see why committee assignments matter.

But there are a whole group of Congressmen (and -women) who seem to be uninterested in creating legislation, and instead merely view being in power as a "performative" act in which they can make outrageous statements in an attempt to day-trade on the news cycle. Would removing one of these from a committee even really hurt them?

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7405 on: February 04, 2021, 09:24:16 AM »
I think a lot of them are so old and defeated by the brokenness of government, that they don't try anymore. Even McConnell admitted before the election that basically he felt like working on legislation is pointless whereas the real benefit of the Senate was being able to setup a judicial branch with conservatives for years to come.

Great podcast on this just came in on the Christ Hayes podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/filibusters-sordid-past-present-adam-jentleson/id1382983397?i=1000507416571

Basically, the filibuster was accidentally created in the early 1800's when the senate removed a rule for ending debate by a simple majority vote. It took 30 years for someone to discover that they had accidentally created a loophole allowing a minority rule to talk on the floor for as long as they wanted. Before then, senators didn't try to block the majority rule. In fact, they prided themselves on not blocking the operation of government. The minority party would have their say on the debate floor, but at the end of the day, they didn't stop the work of the senate.

They had a chance to fix this in the early 1900's when they were rewriting the rules, but they only envisioned the filibuster being a literal talking on the senate floor, so they thought "well even the minority party would get tired of debating a topic". So they set the threshold at 60 votes.

Even in the 60's when filibustering was used to block civil rights by the minority Southern Senators, they only used it for that. They didn't block any other agenda with filibustering.

Somewhere in the past 20-30 years, the filibuster has evolved into basically a single staffer of a single senator can email the Majority Leader saying that their senator wants to continue debate and the bill pretty much dies in order to avoid a 60 vote threshold. Despite no one actually debating the bill.

We have come full circle where the Articles of Confederation completely failed because they required a super-majority to pass any legislation, we are seeing in real-time that the de-facto required super majority that has been created in the Senate has once again created an untenable government.

So our senators have completely resigned themselves to this form of the senate where they get to make big long speeches and every senator can claim to have stopped some bill by filibuster despite overwhelming popular support for it. Heck, even Bernie seems to have thought that the filibuster was a power that even he has gotten use out of. I think he's coming around to the idea of ending it though.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7406 on: February 04, 2021, 10:39:05 AM »
Under business as usual, I see why committee assignments matter.

But there are a whole group of Congressmen (and -women) who seem to be uninterested in creating legislation, and instead merely view being in power as a "performative" act in which they can make outrageous statements in an attempt to day-trade on the news cycle. Would removing one of these from a committee even really hurt them?

Consider which has a bigger impact: One of 435 members of congress interested in grandstanding/performing/making-a-scene, but limited to one vote and 5-10 minutes of 'debate' per House rules set largely by speaker Pelosi, or 1 of 20 to 50 members of a House Committee that are solely responsible for drafting legislation before it goes before the entire House?

Neither is good, but in committee is where the real power lay for most non-leadership members, and where an individual can be most disruptive.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7407 on: February 04, 2021, 11:26:27 AM »
Under business as usual, I see why committee assignments matter.

But there are a whole group of Congressmen (and -women) who seem to be uninterested in creating legislation, and instead merely view being in power as a "performative" act in which they can make outrageous statements in an attempt to day-trade on the news cycle. Would removing one of these from a committee even really hurt them?

Consider which has a bigger impact: One of 435 members of congress interested in grandstanding/performing/making-a-scene, but limited to one vote and 5-10 minutes of 'debate' per House rules set largely by speaker Pelosi, or 1 of 20 to 50 members of a House Committee that are solely responsible for drafting legislation before it goes before the entire House?

Neither is good, but in committee is where the real power lay for most non-leadership members, and where an individual can be most disruptive.

This is true for the house, but apparently less true for the Senate. With bills becoming more and more focused on giant omnibus bills (because it's the only way to overcome the 60 vote margin outside of reconciliation), committees don't really prepare that much legislation anymore. Bills die at the Senate Majority leader's hands. And the Senate rules are so complex, there are really only even a handful of Senators that even fully understand the rules to operate its levers. So most Senators have streamlined their positions by having the Majority Leader tell them when to show up to vote, and in return, they won't have to navigate the confusing world of Senate Parliamentary Procedure.

Because the Senate no longer votes on legislation, the committee positions, as far as legislation is concerned, have been greatly neutered.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7408 on: February 04, 2021, 05:28:02 PM »
Trump’s latest outrage...

Facing expulsion from the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) over the Jan 6th insurrection at the White House and in sustaining a reckless campaign of misinformation aimed at discrediting and ultimately threatening the safety of journalists, many of whom are SAG-AFTRA members., Trump resigned his membership with a truly Trumpian statement“:

I write to you today regarding the so-called Disciplinary Committee hearing aimed at revoking my union membership. Who cares! .. You have done NOTHING for me!!!

SAG responded with two words:  “Thank You


OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7409 on: February 04, 2021, 06:38:41 PM »
Trump’s latest outrage...

Facing expulsion from the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) over the Jan 6th insurrection at the White House and in sustaining a reckless campaign of misinformation aimed at discrediting and ultimately threatening the safety of journalists, many of whom are SAG-AFTRA members., Trump resigned his membership with a truly Trumpian statement“:

I write to you today regarding the so-called Disciplinary Committee hearing aimed at revoking my union membership. Who cares! .. You have done NOTHING for me!!!

SAG responded with two words:  “Thank You

The SAG president is actress Gabrielle Carteris. When I read Trump's bratty letter, my first thought was, "Does this moron know that you don't get on Andrea Zuckerman's bad side?"

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7410 on: February 04, 2021, 07:39:18 PM »

You have done NOTHING for me!!!


His entire outlook on life in six words.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7411 on: February 04, 2021, 07:45:58 PM »
Quote
Somewhere in the past 20-30 years, the filibuster has evolved into basically a single staffer of a single senator can email the Majority Leader saying that their senator wants to continue debate and the bill pretty much dies in order to avoid a 60 vote threshold. Despite no one actually debating the bill.

It took me a while to catch on to the fact that filibusters don't actually happen anymore. The promise that it'll happen is enough to derail the process.  If someone feels that an issue needs to be talked to death, make that hero stand there and do the deed.  It's the same with voting. The leadership walks around and does a back of the envelope calculation on whether something will pass. If it doesn't look it will, they won't even put it on the floor.  The Senate Majority Leader sets the schedule for what happens on the Senate floor and in my opinion has always done a shit job of it. Only in American politics does a leader of the legislative branch get called a success for actively obstructing their Constitutional obligations.  If something has absolutely no chance of passing it probably shouldn't take up their time and I get that, but it's such a partisan position (not actually enshrined in the Constitution mind you) it's mostly used to put your party's pet projects first and foremost.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7412 on: February 04, 2021, 08:51:16 PM »
Quote
Somewhere in the past 20-30 years, the filibuster has evolved into basically a single staffer of a single senator can email the Majority Leader saying that their senator wants to continue debate and the bill pretty much dies in order to avoid a 60 vote threshold. Despite no one actually debating the bill.

It took me a while to catch on to the fact that filibusters don't actually happen anymore. The promise that it'll happen is enough to derail the process.  If someone feels that an issue needs to be talked to death, make that hero stand there and do the deed.  It's the same with voting. The leadership walks around and does a back of the envelope calculation on whether something will pass. If it doesn't look it will, they won't even put it on the floor.  The Senate Majority Leader sets the schedule for what happens on the Senate floor and in my opinion has always done a shit job of it. Only in American politics does a leader of the legislative branch get called a success for actively obstructing their Constitutional obligations.  If something has absolutely no chance of passing it probably shouldn't take up their time and I get that, but it's such a partisan position (not actually enshrined in the Constitution mind you) it's mostly used to put your party's pet projects first and foremost.

Well also consider the options of the minority party.

They could let the majority pass their legislation with their input added on as well.
Or they can completely obstruct the whole process.

The trend has to always choose the later.

If the filibuster were removed from the Senate, you would like see that magically a lot of legislation would see 60-70 vote majorities. Why would that be? Because once legislation is seen as a foregone conclusion your options as a minority senator are:

1. pout and vote against it, getting nothing in return.
2. do the best you can to add to the bill in a way that benefits your constituents.

Somewhat ironically, I think removing the 60 vote threshold would lead to more bipartisanship. The prisoners dilemma of the 60-vote threshold causes a bad outcome for everyone.

MilesTeg

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7413 on: February 04, 2021, 11:50:25 PM »
Quote
Somewhere in the past 20-30 years, the filibuster has evolved into basically a single staffer of a single senator can email the Majority Leader saying that their senator wants to continue debate and the bill pretty much dies in order to avoid a 60 vote threshold. Despite no one actually debating the bill.

It took me a while to catch on to the fact that filibusters don't actually happen anymore. The promise that it'll happen is enough to derail the process.  If someone feels that an issue needs to be talked to death, make that hero stand there and do the deed.  It's the same with voting. The leadership walks around and does a back of the envelope calculation on whether something will pass. If it doesn't look it will, they won't even put it on the floor.  The Senate Majority Leader sets the schedule for what happens on the Senate floor and in my opinion has always done a shit job of it. Only in American politics does a leader of the legislative branch get called a success for actively obstructing their Constitutional obligations.  If something has absolutely no chance of passing it probably shouldn't take up their time and I get that, but it's such a partisan position (not actually enshrined in the Constitution mind you) it's mostly used to put your party's pet projects first and foremost.

I fully support a real filibuster. If the minority party really has a huge problem with a bill then stand up there and put some backbone into it.

But, as you mention it has devolved into a joke. Well, not a joke but something that is in effect a subversion of the constitution. The constitution says a bill passes with a simple majority yet these days it takes a super majority. The senate has not functioned constitutionally
for quite some time.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7414 on: February 05, 2021, 04:42:08 AM »
Trump’s latest outrage...

Facing expulsion from the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) over the Jan 6th insurrection at the White House and in sustaining a reckless campaign of misinformation aimed at discrediting and ultimately threatening the safety of journalists, many of whom are SAG-AFTRA members., Trump resigned his membership with a truly Trumpian statement“:

I write to you today regarding the so-called Disciplinary Committee hearing aimed at revoking my union membership. Who cares! .. You have done NOTHING for me!!!

SAG responded with two words:  “Thank You

The SAG president is actress Gabrielle Carteris. When I read Trump's bratty letter, my first thought was, "Does this moron know that you don't get on Andrea Zuckerman's bad side?"

Hahaha, he forgot to list in his letter to the acting union, the fact that in his incredible acting career he appeared in the movie, The Little Rascals, in 1994! Or did he purposely leave it out! https://www.vulture.com/2016/06/donald-trump-was-in-the-little-rascals.html

OtherJen

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talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7417 on: February 05, 2021, 11:22:17 AM »
All my Trump-related news now comes from this thread. I do not allow myself to click on any news-site link with the name "Trump" in it. But I'll confirm that what's going on now doesn't seem very different from what was going on at any point in the last twenty-seven months.

GreenEggs

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7418 on: February 07, 2021, 06:10:07 PM »

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7419 on: February 08, 2021, 04:33:45 AM »

ROFL

I wonder how many of those QAnons would actually try this.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7420 on: February 13, 2021, 06:08:16 AM »
One of the more appalling things I've read about the insurrection and attempted violent coup by Trump supporters on January 6.

“I Don’t Trust the People Above Me”: Riot Squad Cops Open Up About Disastrous Response to Capitol Insurrection (Propublica)

LaineyAZ

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7421 on: February 13, 2021, 07:17:05 AM »
One of the more appalling things I've read about the insurrection and attempted violent coup by Trump supporters on January 6.

“I Don’t Trust the People Above Me”: Riot Squad Cops Open Up About Disastrous Response to Capitol Insurrection (Propublica)

Thanks for posting.  For myself, I realized that the video coverage I'd seen on the news did not have much audio, if any.  Also camera angles were limited and didn't show the full scope.  But finally seeing more extensive video with audio and hearing what was being shouted it all becomes even uglier and more frightening. 

Now I'm really wondering what the punishment is going to be for those rioters who have been arrested - that part definitely needs to be kept in the news cycle.

jehovasfitness23

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7422 on: February 13, 2021, 08:17:02 AM »
looks like dems are calling for witnesses, finally

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7423 on: February 13, 2021, 08:25:02 AM »
One of the more appalling things I've read about the insurrection and attempted violent coup by Trump supporters on January 6.

“I Don’t Trust the People Above Me”: Riot Squad Cops Open Up About Disastrous Response to Capitol Insurrection (Propublica)

Thanks for posting.  For myself, I realized that the video coverage I'd seen on the news did not have much audio, if any.  Also camera angles were limited and didn't show the full scope.  But finally seeing more extensive video with audio and hearing what was being shouted it all becomes even uglier and more frightening. 

Now I'm really wondering what the punishment is going to be for those rioters who have been arrested - that part definitely needs to be kept in the news cycle.

Well, at least one of them will be allowed to travel to Mexico.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7424 on: February 13, 2021, 09:05:20 AM »
One of the more appalling things I've read about the insurrection and attempted violent coup by Trump supporters on January 6.

“I Don’t Trust the People Above Me”: Riot Squad Cops Open Up About Disastrous Response to Capitol Insurrection (Propublica)

Thanks for posting.  For myself, I realized that the video coverage I'd seen on the news did not have much audio, if any.  Also camera angles were limited and didn't show the full scope.  But finally seeing more extensive video with audio and hearing what was being shouted it all becomes even uglier and more frightening. 

Now I'm really wondering what the punishment is going to be for those rioters who have been arrested - that part definitely needs to be kept in the news cycle.

I'm a little at a loss after reading the article.  It raises so many questions in my mind.

- It seems like most at the top who could be held accountable have now resigned.  Does this protect them from any responsibility for their actions?
- Why didn't officers open fire when their own lives were at risk?
- How does this story square away with pictures of officers taking selfies with rioters?

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7425 on: February 13, 2021, 11:12:33 AM »
One of the more appalling things I've read about the insurrection and attempted violent coup by Trump supporters on January 6.

“I Don’t Trust the People Above Me”: Riot Squad Cops Open Up About Disastrous Response to Capitol Insurrection (Propublica)

Thanks for posting.  For myself, I realized that the video coverage I'd seen on the news did not have much audio, if any.  Also camera angles were limited and didn't show the full scope.  But finally seeing more extensive video with audio and hearing what was being shouted it all becomes even uglier and more frightening. 

Now I'm really wondering what the punishment is going to be for those rioters who have been arrested - that part definitely needs to be kept in the news cycle.

I'm a little at a loss after reading the article.  It raises so many questions in my mind.

- It seems like most at the top who could be held accountable have now resigned.  Does this protect them from any responsibility for their actions?
- Why didn't officers open fire when their own lives were at risk?
- How does this story square away with pictures of officers taking selfies with rioters?

It was allowed to happen on some levels.

“The entire intelligence community seems to have missed this.”

Seriously? It was all over the Trump cultist boards in the weeks prior. They were discussing taking over the pedestrian tunnels with guns.


jehovasfitness23

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7426 on: February 13, 2021, 12:48:05 PM »
looks like dems are calling for witnesses, finally

and just like that they caved and showed they are weak. I am so mad at this yet not shocked

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7427 on: February 13, 2021, 12:49:46 PM »
looks like dems are calling for witnesses, finally

and just like that they caved and showed they are weak. I am so mad at this yet not shocked

The NYT push notification I got said the House Impeachment Mgrs and Trump's lawyers "struck a deal" not to have witnesses.  Usually deals involve both sides getting something, but yeah, looks like the deal actually was "how about we give you your way and we get nothing in return?"  Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as usual.

shuffler

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7428 on: February 13, 2021, 01:38:25 PM »
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as usual.
Unfortunately, I don't think "jaws of victory" was an apt description at any point.  Not with the Repubs in the Senate.

geekette

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7429 on: February 13, 2021, 01:38:32 PM »
As Graham said, if the Democrats call witnesses, the Republicans would too.  He said it before, and tweeted today “If you want a delay, it will be a long one with many, many witnesses”.

They will allow a statement from Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler into the record.  Nothing will change their minds, so why drag it on and delay progress on other work.

It's sickening, really.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7430 on: February 13, 2021, 01:48:09 PM »
Someone on the Democrat side presenting evidence said that the world is watching.  The world is watching.  I guess the Senate Republicans don't care that the world is seeing a democracy in failure.  Last I looked the US was 27th (? from memory).  I'm sure this is giving warm fuzzy feelings to autocratic governments world wide.

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7431 on: February 13, 2021, 02:02:45 PM »
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as usual.
Unfortunately, I don't think "jaws of victory" was an apt description at any point.  Not with the Repubs in the Senate.

Conviction may not have ever been in the cards, but calling witnesses would have for sure been a victory. And with the assurance that any witness needed a majority vote to proceed, the Dems could have easily avoided the threat of "100 witnesses" by Trump's lawyers.

jehovasfitness23

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7432 on: February 13, 2021, 02:28:53 PM »
democracy was on life support, someone just pulled the plug... there's still time to plug it back in, but I'm not hopeful.  this country is fucked

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7433 on: February 13, 2021, 06:02:16 PM »
Will Georgia and New York now go after Trump for election tampering and tax evasion?    Or is he now in the clear and free to continue on his mission of whatever it is he's doing?

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7434 on: February 13, 2021, 06:03:41 PM »
Will Georgia and New York now go after Trump for election tampering and tax evasion?    Or is he now in the clear and free to continue on his mission of whatever it is he's doing?

Who knows? He seems to be impervious to legal consequences.

gentmach

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7435 on: February 13, 2021, 06:14:55 PM »
One of the more appalling things I've read about the insurrection and attempted violent coup by Trump supporters on January 6.

“I Don’t Trust the People Above Me”: Riot Squad Cops Open Up About Disastrous Response to Capitol Insurrection (Propublica)

Thanks for posting.  For myself, I realized that the video coverage I'd seen on the news did not have much audio, if any.  Also camera angles were limited and didn't show the full scope.  But finally seeing more extensive video with audio and hearing what was being shouted it all becomes even uglier and more frightening. 

Now I'm really wondering what the punishment is going to be for those rioters who have been arrested - that part definitely needs to be kept in the news cycle.

I'm a little at a loss after reading the article.  It raises so many questions in my mind.

- It seems like most at the top who could be held accountable have now resigned.  Does this protect them from any responsibility for their actions?
- Why didn't officers open fire when their own lives were at risk?
- How does this story square away with pictures of officers taking selfies with rioters?

It was allowed to happen on some levels.

“The entire intelligence community seems to have missed this.”

Seriously? It was all over the Trump cultist boards in the weeks prior. They were discussing taking over the pedestrian tunnels with guns.

We live in a post-9/11, post-Boston Bombing, post-Las Vegas shooting America. We still take off our shoes at airport because someone tried to blow a plane in France back in 2001 using his shoes. This nations approach can be summed up as "better safe than sorry."

To that goal, we have spent millions on preparation drills, command centers, equipment and training for such an occasion. Washington DC is a "no fly zone" that has F-16 fighter jets enforcing it. (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2006/january/pilot/flight-of-mistakes)

Yet on the most contentious day in modern American Politics, the cops were "understaffed", the FBI just kind of shrugged (https://www.npr.org/2021/01/13/956359496/why-didnt-the-fbi-and-dhs-produce-a-threat-report-ahead-of-the-capitol-insurrect) and the National Guard refused to deploy, (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sund-riot-national-guard/2021/01/10/fc2ce7d4-5384-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html) thus leaving the capital vulnerable to being overrun by hill folk.

Yes. I would agree that it was allowed to happen.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7436 on: February 13, 2021, 08:06:30 PM »
One of the more appalling things I've read about the insurrection and attempted violent coup by Trump supporters on January 6.

“I Don’t Trust the People Above Me”: Riot Squad Cops Open Up About Disastrous Response to Capitol Insurrection (Propublica)

Thanks for posting.  For myself, I realized that the video coverage I'd seen on the news did not have much audio, if any.  Also camera angles were limited and didn't show the full scope.  But finally seeing more extensive video with audio and hearing what was being shouted it all becomes even uglier and more frightening. 

Now I'm really wondering what the punishment is going to be for those rioters who have been arrested - that part definitely needs to be kept in the news cycle.

I'm a little at a loss after reading the article.  It raises so many questions in my mind.

- It seems like most at the top who could be held accountable have now resigned.  Does this protect them from any responsibility for their actions?
- Why didn't officers open fire when their own lives were at risk?
- How does this story square away with pictures of officers taking selfies with rioters?

It was allowed to happen on some levels.

“The entire intelligence community seems to have missed this.”

Seriously? It was all over the Trump cultist boards in the weeks prior. They were discussing taking over the pedestrian tunnels with guns.

We live in a post-9/11, post-Boston Bombing, post-Las Vegas shooting America. We still take off our shoes at airport because someone tried to blow a plane in France back in 2001 using his shoes. This nations approach can be summed up as "better safe than sorry."

To that goal, we have spent millions on preparation drills, command centers, equipment and training for such an occasion. Washington DC is a "no fly zone" that has F-16 fighter jets enforcing it. (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2006/january/pilot/flight-of-mistakes)

Yet on the most contentious day in modern American Politics, the cops were "understaffed", the FBI just kind of shrugged (https://www.npr.org/2021/01/13/956359496/why-didnt-the-fbi-and-dhs-produce-a-threat-report-ahead-of-the-capitol-insurrect) and the National Guard refused to deploy, (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sund-riot-national-guard/2021/01/10/fc2ce7d4-5384-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html) thus leaving the capital vulnerable to being overrun by hill folk.

Yes. I would agree that it was allowed to happen.

The most important thing is that nobody who orchestrated it is going to be held accountable. . . that way no lessons can be learned and it can happen again.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7437 on: February 13, 2021, 08:34:32 PM »
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as usual.
Unfortunately, I don't think "jaws of victory" was an apt description at any point.  Not with the Repubs in the Senate.

Conviction may not have ever been in the cards, but calling witnesses would have for sure been a victory. And with the assurance that any witness needed a majority vote to proceed, the Dems could have easily avoided the threat of "100 witnesses" by Trump's lawyers.

The Republicans who want to see the world burn threatened to drag this out for weeks which would mean Biden wouldn't get much accomplished until next year. They could also shout from the rooftops anytime the Democrats voted down a witness. "See, they're railroading us!"

And from my favorite Senator in whole side world Mitch McConnell:

"Vote your conscience."

"Trump was morally responsible for the riot."

Votes not to convict.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 08:37:08 PM by Travis »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7438 on: February 14, 2021, 05:33:59 AM »
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as usual.
Unfortunately, I don't think "jaws of victory" was an apt description at any point.  Not with the Repubs in the Senate.

Conviction may not have ever been in the cards, but calling witnesses would have for sure been a victory. And with the assurance that any witness needed a majority vote to proceed, the Dems could have easily avoided the threat of "100 witnesses" by Trump's lawyers.

The Republicans who want to see the world burn threatened to drag this out for weeks which would mean Biden wouldn't get much accomplished until next year. They could also shout from the rooftops anytime the Democrats voted down a witness. "See, they're railroading us!"

And from my favorite Senator in whole side world Mitch McConnell:

"Vote your conscience."

"Trump was morally responsible for the riot."

Votes not to convict.

Mitch McConnell is an amoral, power-greedy opportunist. He will never do the right thing unless he perceives that it will have significant benefit to him.

jehovasfitness23

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7439 on: February 14, 2021, 06:17:25 AM »
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as usual.
Unfortunately, I don't think "jaws of victory" was an apt description at any point.  Not with the Repubs in the Senate.

Conviction may not have ever been in the cards, but calling witnesses would have for sure been a victory. And with the assurance that any witness needed a majority vote to proceed, the Dems could have easily avoided the threat of "100 witnesses" by Trump's lawyers.

The Republicans who want to see the world burn threatened to drag this out for weeks which would mean Biden wouldn't get much accomplished until next year. They could also shout from the rooftops anytime the Democrats voted down a witness. "See, they're railroading us!"

And from my favorite Senator in whole side world Mitch McConnell:

"Vote your conscience."

"Trump was morally responsible for the riot."

Votes not to convict.

Mitch McConnell is an amoral, power-greedy opportunist. He will never do the right thing unless he perceives that it will have significant benefit to him.

which begs the question imagine being as old as that guy and not needing the money, yet still doing the job. It truly is stunning how evil some people can be

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7440 on: February 14, 2021, 01:54:57 PM »



Conviction may not have ever been in the cards, but calling witnesses would have for sure been a victory. And with the assurance that any witness needed a majority vote to proceed, the Dems could have easily avoided the threat of "100 witnesses" by Trump's lawyers.

I never expected the Senate to convict Trump.

Do we know how many Republican senators applied strict construction to support their vote against conviction?


FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7441 on: February 14, 2021, 02:54:34 PM »
What should happen now is barring Trump from any future office through the 14th amendment.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7442 on: February 14, 2021, 06:56:39 PM »



Conviction may not have ever been in the cards, but calling witnesses would have for sure been a victory. And with the assurance that any witness needed a majority vote to proceed, the Dems could have easily avoided the threat of "100 witnesses" by Trump's lawyers.

I never expected the Senate to convict Trump.

Do we know how many Republican senators applied strict construction to support their vote against conviction?

Probably a similar number to "I have the right to oppose the elector certification" even though there isn't a single phrase of such in the Constitution either.

six-car-habit

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7443 on: February 15, 2021, 02:07:58 AM »
 
  I've been wondering why he doesn't just buy 1000 acres somewhere, put a great personal house for himself in the middle, and then build nice 3/2 single family homes all around it for his true followers to buy and move into- he could get it its own zip code - and anytime he left for a few days there could be sorrow and wailing processioners in the streets.
   But when he returned from fighting the steal, vanquishing democrats, golfing with bolsonaro, giving depositions in court cases, etc.  there could be ticker tape parades to celebrate the aura of peace and goodwill, + law and order that surely surrounds him, and will shine upon the inhabitants....

  My guess is that he runs for Govenor of Florida,  once Desantis' term is over.  I'm pretty sure he's not moving to the west coast states, and for that am gratefull.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7444 on: February 15, 2021, 04:44:36 AM »
Mitch McConnell is an amoral, power-greedy opportunist. He will never do the right thing unless he perceives that it will have significant benefit to him.

which begs the question imagine being as old as that guy and not needing the money, yet still doing the job. It truly is stunning how evil some people can be

Power not only currupts, it's also a powerful drug.
Why do you imagine do all the dictators cling to their very often deadly position instead of taking a long distance flight once their swiss bank account has topped 10 million?

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7445 on: February 15, 2021, 08:07:16 AM »
Mitch McConnell is an amoral, power-greedy opportunist. He will never do the right thing unless he perceives that it will have significant benefit to him.

which begs the question imagine being as old as that guy and not needing the money, yet still doing the job. It truly is stunning how evil some people can be

Power not only currupts, it's also a powerful drug.
Why do you imagine do all the dictators cling to their very often deadly position instead of taking a long distance flight once their swiss bank account has topped 10 million?

When you have enough money to enable an opulent life--I have in mind an income roughly fifteen times the median income--then you start to wonder what luxuries you can buy with that money, and power looks pretty damn intoxicating.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7446 on: February 15, 2021, 12:08:45 PM »
Mitch McConnell is an amoral, power-greedy opportunist. He will never do the right thing unless he perceives that it will have significant benefit to him.

which begs the question imagine being as old as that guy and not needing the money, yet still doing the job. It truly is stunning how evil some people can be

Power not only currupts, it's also a powerful drug.
Why do you imagine do all the dictators cling to their very often deadly position instead of taking a long distance flight once their swiss bank account has topped 10 million?

When you have enough money to enable an opulent life--I have in mind an income roughly fifteen times the median income--then you start to wonder what luxuries you can buy with that money, and power looks pretty damn intoxicating.


In the arena of politics access to  enormous sums of money and the legitimate power to allocate them  (steer them) invites rife corruption that is infrequently  indictable.

As a body of insiders Congress enjoys this lucrative, dual advantage which is irresistible to avaricious careerists.

Consider all the members of Congress who retired as multimillionaires though they didn't have much money when first elected.

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible."  Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7447 on: February 15, 2021, 01:16:57 PM »
Mitch McConnell is an amoral, power-greedy opportunist. He will never do the right thing unless he perceives that it will have significant benefit to him.

which begs the question imagine being as old as that guy and not needing the money, yet still doing the job. It truly is stunning how evil some people can be

Power not only currupts, it's also a powerful drug.
Why do you imagine do all the dictators cling to their very often deadly position instead of taking a long distance flight once their swiss bank account has topped 10 million?

When you have enough money to enable an opulent life--I have in mind an income roughly fifteen times the median income--then you start to wonder what luxuries you can buy with that money, and power looks pretty damn intoxicating.


In the arena of politics access to  enormous sums of money and the legitimate power to allocate them  (steer them) invites rife corruption that is infrequently  indictable.

As a body of insiders Congress enjoys this lucrative, dual advantage which is irresistible to avaricious careerists.

Consider all the members of Congress who retired as multimillionaires though they didn't have much money when first elected.

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible."  Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune

I think you need a bit more than just "multi-millionaire".

Any member of congress that has been on the job for >20-30 years should be a multi-millionaire. They are paid 175k a year. Even a conservative investment of 10-15% of income invested over 30 years will make any member of congress a "multi-millionaire".

The issue has been with people who are already worth >50MM buying their way into congress to cement their status as part of the upper class.

Regular members of congress working for 20-30 years in service to the country making it to a comfortable retirement is not a concern I have of any politician.

Pizzabrewer

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7448 on: February 15, 2021, 01:49:47 PM »
So apparently QAnon is now expecting Biden to be arrested and Trump sworn into office on March 4 as that is the "historic" date of inauguration. 

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7449 on: February 15, 2021, 02:17:37 PM »
So apparently QAnon is now expecting Biden to be arrested and Trump sworn into office on March 4 as that is the "historic" date of inauguration.

The Alt-Right spent years predicting that Hillary would be arrested "any day now" for crimes that were self-evident to true believers that they were rarely explained ("because she's crooked!!".  Now Biden is the one "about to be arrested" for no apparent reason, besides a similar dubious belief that he's "the deep state!"

It's exhausting trying to follow their logic-train.