Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 297523 times)

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #700 on: January 16, 2020, 01:18:55 PM »
I've gotten really accustomed to my in-laws just having FoxNews on. My MiL insists that she isn't interested in a deep discussion on these topics. She has a set of things she cares about, but she seeks out just the minimum of information that she can insist she's "informed" about topics.

My FiL is already beginning the gymnastics he'll need to justify voting for Trump because the Democratic candidate is basically the same thing he is PLUS socialism.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #701 on: January 16, 2020, 01:28:31 PM »
I've gotten really accustomed to my in-laws just having FoxNews on. My MiL insists that she isn't interested in a deep discussion on these topics. She has a set of things she cares about, but she seeks out just the minimum of information that she can insist she's "informed" about topics.

My FiL is already beginning the gymnastics he'll need to justify voting for Trump because the Democratic candidate is basically the same thing he is PLUS socialism.

An ALWAYS TRUMP on my FB feed posted a meme showing all the crap any Democrat has ever done, including Ted Kennedy. Never mind that killing that woman and mishandling the aftermath actually did cost Kennedy the presidency.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #702 on: January 16, 2020, 01:40:38 PM »
Colllins is one of my state senators.  Don't discount how many Trump supporters there are in this very rural, very impoverished, oldest-in-the-nation state.  Many of them are still extremely upset that Golden "stole" his seat from Bruce Poliquin due to ranked-choice voting. Sara Gideon isn't exactly primed to win rural voters over, coming from Freeport (aka "the other Maine").

Collins will have the first close re-election of her life.  but right now I'm giving her a 50/50 shot of holding on to her seat.  Money is pouring into the races from both sides in a way we've never seen before.  It's sure to get ugly.

This will also be Collins first race in ranked choice voting. I lived in Maine last year (granted in Portland), but I really got to know that Maine is a truly lean dem/independent state. However, what that Poliquin vote says to me is that when voters are allowed to vote their conscience, they are then forced to eventually pick between the 2 main contenders.

And Poliquin was in the red side of the state. ME-1 is going to vote against Collins 60-40, and based on the Polliquin vote, I'm not sure ME-2 will be able to overcome that.

She last ran 2014 and won 68/32 during peak anti-Obama hysteria, and since then Maine has also lived through and extremely unpopular GOP governor that has caused a full swing back to a Dem-trifecta of control in state government. She could still win, but she won't win by a much.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #703 on: January 16, 2020, 02:57:48 PM »
Colllins is one of my state senators.  Don't discount how many Trump supporters there are in this very rural, very impoverished, oldest-in-the-nation state.  Many of them are still extremely upset that Golden "stole" his seat from Bruce Poliquin due to ranked-choice voting. Sara Gideon isn't exactly primed to win rural voters over, coming from Freeport (aka "the other Maine").

Collins will have the first close re-election of her life.  but right now I'm giving her a 50/50 shot of holding on to her seat.  Money is pouring into the races from both sides in a way we've never seen before.  It's sure to get ugly.

This will also be Collins first race in ranked choice voting. I lived in Maine last year (granted in Portland), but I really got to know that Maine is a truly lean dem/independent state. However, what that Poliquin vote says to me is that when voters are allowed to vote their conscience, they are then forced to eventually pick between the 2 main contenders.

And Poliquin was in the red side of the state. ME-1 is going to vote against Collins 60-40, and based on the Polliquin vote, I'm not sure ME-2 will be able to overcome that.

She last ran 2014 and won 68/32 during peak anti-Obama hysteria, and since then Maine has also lived through and extremely unpopular GOP governor that has caused a full swing back to a Dem-trifecta of control in state government. She could still win, but she won't win by a much.

I looked up a bit more info on the ME-2 race that was actually determined by rank-choice

1.
Polliquin R - 46.33%   134,184
Golden D - 45.58%   132,013
Bond I - 5.71%   16,552
Hoar I - 02.37%  6,875

2.
Golden D - 50.6%  142,440
Poliquin R - 49.4%  138,931

This means that the Independent vote was split 20% R / 45% D / 35% Abstain

ME does have an independent streak. The GOP has had Collins seat since 1978

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #704 on: January 17, 2020, 08:09:40 AM »
I'm seeing headlines suggesting that Collins has become the least popular Senator in the country, less popular even than McConnell.

She doesn't have be to popular in 49 states, though, only in Maine.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #705 on: January 17, 2020, 08:18:44 AM »
I'm seeing headlines suggesting that Collins has become the least popular Senator in the country, less popular even than McConnell.

She doesn't have be to popular in 49 states, though, only in Maine.

That's what the poll was measuring: popularity in their home state.

For what it's worth "least popular" is apparently 42/52 approve/disapprove.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #706 on: January 17, 2020, 08:28:10 AM »
I'm seeing headlines suggesting that Collins has become the least popular Senator in the country, less popular even than McConnell.

She doesn't have be to popular in 49 states, though, only in Maine.

Exactly.  And remember that Maine is predominantly rural, overwhelmingly white, blue-collar and has the oldest median age in the country.  The portland metro area is heavily democratic (as are most urban areas now) but much of the rest of the state is ruby red.  I can't drive anywhere without passing Trump posters and I see MAGA hats daily.  ACcording to the latest polls Collins favorability is in the mid 40s.  Problem is her challenger, Sara Gideon, currently has much softer numbers, which much of the voters knowing little or nothoingabout here (low name recognition).  that will change, of course, but in politics both sides have the ptential to define a candidate, and there is a LOT of money coming in to back Collins and defeat Gideon.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #707 on: January 17, 2020, 09:13:44 AM »
What's disappointing is that Collins really took a risk to defend the Affordable Care Act in 2017, but has somehow become this hated figure anyway because of her position on Kavanaugh.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #708 on: January 17, 2020, 09:36:34 AM »
What's disappointing is that Collins really took a risk to defend the Affordable Care Act in 2017, but has somehow become this hated figure anyway because of her position on Kavanaugh.

Actually Maine is strange country that way. A lot of the Trump voters in Maine I met are actually for healthcare reform. I met one guy that immigrated in from New Brunswick 20 some odd years ago. He would spout off GOP talking points til he was blue in the face, but then I asked him about healthcare and suddenly he was talking about how nice a system Canada has and he wished the US had something more like that. He actually had a personal story where his son got cancer and he was at risk of medical bankruptcy until a charity organization came in and covered the bill.

That sort of Fox News brainwashing is happening all over the US, the word 'socialism' is a dirty word, but then ask what they think about a particular policy that just happens to be 'socialist' and they nod along in agreement.

DaMa

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #709 on: January 17, 2020, 09:40:00 AM »
I find that anyone who has been touched personally is for national healthcare.  Or said another way, those opposed have had decent to excellent employer provided policies and Medicare throughout their lives.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #710 on: January 17, 2020, 09:44:53 AM »
I find that anyone who has been touched personally is for national healthcare.  Or said another way, those opposed have had decent to excellent employer provided policies and Medicare throughout their lives.

It's basically feudalism: how many lords is the US able to afford in order to maintain political power.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #711 on: January 17, 2020, 09:52:17 AM »
I find that anyone who has been touched personally is for national healthcare.  Or said another way, those opposed have had decent to excellent employer provided policies and Medicare throughout their lives.

My brother doesn't think we need national health care because up until now, his church and family have stepped up for him and his children, including one that spent months in NICU.

My brother in law doesn't think we need healthcare because his dozen children are covered by CHIP and his wife just goes on WIC when she gets pregnant.

Sister in law doesn't think we need national health care because her premiums are too high for her employer sponsored insurance??

Old high school classmate who brags about never making more than $30k doesn't think we need national health care because COMMIES.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #712 on: January 17, 2020, 10:14:49 AM »
I find that anyone who has been touched personally is for national healthcare.  Or said another way, those opposed have had decent to excellent employer provided policies and Medicare throughout their lives.

Or experienced healthcare in another system.

In a certain kind of irony, the majority of Americans do not want a system akin to those in Canadian Provinces. Yet overwhelmingly Canadians think the US system is terrible. Both tend to be woefully misinformed about the other country's health care system(s), and across the board most people have little idea what their own healthcare actually costs.

Our system is a holdover from another era, back before health insurance was considered essential. If you designed a system from the ground up today there is no way most people would support the employer-based system we have.  Not the employers, not the employees, not the health-care professionals and not even the insurance companies (who would rather skip the private businesses entirely and sell directly to the consumer).  Universally everyone thinks it is a bad system when looked at objectively, but too few people are willing to kill the golden goose (massive amounts of profit in the healthcare sector) or risk disrupting anyone's coverage (e.g. "you can keep your doctor!").

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #713 on: January 17, 2020, 11:03:56 AM »
What's disappointing is that Collins really took a risk to defend the Affordable Care Act in 2017, but has somehow become this hated figure anyway because of her position on Kavanaugh.

Actually Maine is strange country that way. A lot of the Trump voters in Maine I met are actually for healthcare reform. I met one guy that immigrated in from New Brunswick 20 some odd years ago. He would spout off GOP talking points til he was blue in the face, but then I asked him about healthcare and suddenly he was talking about how nice a system Canada has and he wished the US had something more like that. He actually had a personal story where his son got cancer and he was at risk of medical bankruptcy until a charity organization came in and covered the bill.

That sort of Fox News brainwashing is happening all over the US, the word 'socialism' is a dirty word, but then ask what they think about a particular policy that just happens to be 'socialist' and they nod along in agreement.

Was listening to "The Gist" again yesterday--hopefully it will not radicalize me--and Mike Pesca made the point that even if any particular policy (free college, M4All, etc.) is popular, the idea that all of these things would change within 1,000 days of a Sanders presidency would still freak out a lot of people. Basically the entire reshaping of an economy is not popular, even when it's the sum of individual popular parts.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #714 on: January 17, 2020, 01:22:28 PM »
What's disappointing is that Collins really took a risk to defend the Affordable Care Act in 2017, but has somehow become this hated figure anyway because of her position on Kavanaugh.

Actually Maine is strange country that way. A lot of the Trump voters in Maine I met are actually for healthcare reform. I met one guy that immigrated in from New Brunswick 20 some odd years ago. He would spout off GOP talking points til he was blue in the face, but then I asked him about healthcare and suddenly he was talking about how nice a system Canada has and he wished the US had something more like that. He actually had a personal story where his son got cancer and he was at risk of medical bankruptcy until a charity organization came in and covered the bill.

That sort of Fox News brainwashing is happening all over the US, the word 'socialism' is a dirty word, but then ask what they think about a particular policy that just happens to be 'socialist' and they nod along in agreement.

This is nothing new. Republicans have been calling Dem platforms socialism for decades. It’s just that with social media, more people believe and regurgitate that nonsense. Healthcare for all and more affordable access to secondary education? How dare those commie socialist bastards!!

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #715 on: January 17, 2020, 01:49:27 PM »
Agreed that the "socialist" slur is a big part of what keeps people who've fallen behind economically voting to dismantle the very safety net that could help them in the short term.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #716 on: January 17, 2020, 01:54:33 PM »
I always thought that the hatred of socialism so prevalent in the US was a holdout from McCarthyism and the hunt for communists in the US in the 50s.  People were terrified of the very idea of communism.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #717 on: January 17, 2020, 02:54:34 PM »
I always thought that the hatred of socialism so prevalent in the US was a holdout from McCarthyism and the hunt for communists in the US in the 50s.  People were terrified of the very idea of communism.

I think it's just from a 90-year long smear campaign. Fear of communism was a part of it. Truman pushed for Universal healthcare in his first term but failed to get it passed. The AMA at the time smeared Truman as “followers of the Moscow party line.” The AMA later hired Ronald Reagan in the early 60's who recorded a 10 minute talk on the dangers of "socialized-medicine". However Universal healthcare even then polled at about 75% approval. Basically it's a story old as time: moneyed interests ran a smear campaign, influenced powerful men, and eked out a close win blocking its passage.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 03:10:50 PM by FIPurpose »

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #718 on: January 17, 2020, 02:57:14 PM »
Oops. Got another one today. Medicare for all would just kill off everyone over 70.

It would also turn all emergency rooms into the hell holes you see on inner city cop shows. I've been to the energy room in question. The only difference I noticed from the one the speaker prefers are levels of melatonin.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 02:59:05 PM by ixtap »

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #719 on: January 19, 2020, 01:09:06 AM »
Someone asked here for a list of Trump's broken promises, right?

Sounds like this is one:

https://trumpsbrokenpromises.org/

Of course thats from the other side of politics so be a bit careful.

six-car-habit

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #720 on: January 19, 2020, 01:53:21 AM »
 Yet another response from the White House, this time from counsel cippilone and sekulow, to the Senate on being served with articles of impeachment  - that goes along the lines of, " This is just an attempt to overturn the results of the 2016 election "

 Ummmn , it's not an attempt to undo the 2016 election. Most folks, that are anti-Trump are not arguing with the electoral college outcome. Nor are they arguing that Trump/ Pence should leave, and Clinton/ Kaine immediately replace them. That would be the result of "overturning" the election.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #721 on: January 19, 2020, 02:35:40 AM »
Yet another response from the White House, this time from counsel cippilone and sekulow, to the Senate on being served with articles of impeachment  - that goes along the lines of, " This is just an attempt to overturn the results of the 2016 election "

 Ummmn , it's not an attempt to undo the 2016 election. Most folks, that are anti-Trump are not arguing with the electoral college outcome. Nor are they arguing that Trump/ Pence should leave, and Clinton/ Kaine immediately replace them. That would be the result of "overturning" the election.
Impeachment is about the actions of the President, not the actions of the electorate.  The "it's overturning the election" argument fails at the first hurdle, which is that election by the electoral college is necessary but not sufficient to become President: a President elect needs to take the oath of office before becoming President and impeachment is about a President breaking that oath of office. 

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #722 on: January 19, 2020, 06:31:02 AM »
Also - no one here is suggesting HRC be installed as president. The argument is that Trump is unfit fo office, having violated his oath and broken numerous laws. Ergo, Mike Pence should be president.

(Four years ago I never thought I would have uttered that last sentence).

ysette9

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #723 on: January 19, 2020, 06:46:05 AM »
Out of the frying pan, into the fire, is what that would be. Not that this should stop a guilty conviction.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #724 on: January 19, 2020, 09:37:35 AM »
Oops. Got another one today. Medicare for all would just kill off everyone over 70.

It would also turn all emergency rooms into the hell holes you see on inner city cop shows. I've been to the energy room in question. The only difference I noticed from the one the speaker prefers are levels of melatonin.

Haven't you heard? Some white folks can't mix with the "colored folks". -eye roller-

Was naive when I thought racism would die with our grandparents. Admittedly I was alot younger.

Omy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #725 on: January 19, 2020, 09:51:09 AM »
Unfortunately, there are a lot of young neo-nazis. It may never end.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #726 on: January 19, 2020, 09:56:53 AM »
Also - no one here is suggesting HRC be installed as president. The argument is that Trump is unfit fo office, having violated his oath and broken numerous laws. Ergo, Mike Pence should be president.

(Four years ago I never thought I would have uttered that last sentence).

I think the fear is that Pence is implicated in the same shenanigans and many believe that means Pelosi would be next in line. However, since Pence is not being impeached at this time, he would nominate a VP who would most likely replace him.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #727 on: January 19, 2020, 01:09:08 PM »
Also - no one here is suggesting HRC be installed as president. The argument is that Trump is unfit fo office, having violated his oath and broken numerous laws. Ergo, Mike Pence should be president.

(Four years ago I never thought I would have uttered that last sentence).

I think the fear is that Pence is implicated in the same shenanigans and many believe that means Pelosi would be next in line. However, since Pence is not being impeached at this time, he would nominate a VP who would most likely replace him.
Is that a legitimate fear? Even if some how trump was removed and pence was then removed and Pelosi became President temporarily, she would be replaced by the victor of the election as few months (or likely weeks, given the time frame) later

Hillary would still never become President. It’s not re litigating the 2016 election no matter how it is viewed.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #728 on: January 19, 2020, 01:11:14 PM »
Also - no one here is suggesting HRC be installed as president. The argument is that Trump is unfit fo office, having violated his oath and broken numerous laws. Ergo, Mike Pence should be president.

(Four years ago I never thought I would have uttered that last sentence).

I think the fear is that Pence is implicated in the same shenanigans and many believe that means Pelosi would be next in line. However, since Pence is not being impeached at this time, he would nominate a VP who would most likely replace him.
Is that a legitimate fear? Even if some how trump was removed and pence was then removed and Pelosi became President temporarily, she would be replaced by the victor of the election as few months (or likely weeks, given the time frame) later

Hillary would still never become President. It’s not re litigating the 2016 election no matter how it is viewed.

Do you know any Trump supports that limit themselves to legitimate fears?

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #729 on: January 19, 2020, 01:23:38 PM »
That’s my I said “legitimate”. I know people who were convinced Obama would evoke Sharia law. Sense of logic doesn’t enter into it.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #730 on: January 19, 2020, 02:13:45 PM »
A lot of the Trump voters that tipped him over the top to win the electoral college weren't thinking as deeply about it as we are trying to give them credit for.

Just weeks before the election many independent/undecided voters were probably swayed by the constant media attention given to Hillary's emails on her server, and to James Comey's publicly announcing reopening the investigation into the emails. Or maybe it was the hacking of James Podesta's email or DNC email or something like that.

As we've described already many voters aren't logical and instead are emotionally deciding who to vote for.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #731 on: January 19, 2020, 03:32:35 PM »
A fascinating look at what a Trumper thinks:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/01/19/2020-democratic-candidates-bogeymen-voters-who-back-trump/4463037002/

There are the usual generalizations but there are some doozies.

We've actually seen this belief -- that illegals can get insurance from the ACA -- expressed in the forum:

Quote
[A Democrat will] Force them to subsidize the health care of immigrants.

Unless they mean ER care as well?


Then this unconstitutional belief:

Quote
The party has also called for banning the acceptance of any international refugees unless they are vetted Christians


In a lot of ways, it shows how far apart we are. These Republicans believe Democrats believe "you can get everything for free." Meanwhile, they're very pro-coal because that's where the jobs are and their ancestors have been "involved in these industries for generations."

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #732 on: January 20, 2020, 06:48:37 AM »
Also - no one here is suggesting HRC be installed as president. The argument is that Trump is unfit fo office, having violated his oath and broken numerous laws. Ergo, Mike Pence should be president.

(Four years ago I never thought I would have uttered that last sentence).

I think the fear is that Pence is implicated in the same shenanigans and many believe that means Pelosi would be next in line. However, since Pence is not being impeached at this time, he would nominate a VP who would most likely replace him.

I've been trying to get Republican friends I have to mentally "stand down" by assuring them that Pence was a good business-friendly governor in Indiana (in addition to his faith-credentials. Every time, I get reminded that the Republican party has basically been remade as Trump's party. He owns it. They have tied themselves to him irreversibly.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #733 on: January 20, 2020, 08:28:59 AM »
Also - no one here is suggesting HRC be installed as president. The argument is that Trump is unfit fo office, having violated his oath and broken numerous laws. Ergo, Mike Pence should be president.

(Four years ago I never thought I would have uttered that last sentence).

I think the fear is that Pence is implicated in the same shenanigans and many believe that means Pelosi would be next in line. However, since Pence is not being impeached at this time, he would nominate a VP who would most likely replace him.

I've been trying to get Republican friends I have to mentally "stand down" by assuring them that Pence was a good business-friendly governor in Indiana (in addition to his faith-credentials. Every time, I get reminded that the Republican party has basically been remade as Trump's party. He owns it. They have tied themselves to him irreversibly.

They have thrown themselves behind Trump as Fighter of Corruption and Defender of American Values. You and I might see accepting impeachment as admitting they were wrong. They choose to see impeachment as the triumph of corruption and destruction of American values.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #734 on: January 20, 2020, 08:59:27 AM »
Oops. Got another one today. Medicare for all would just kill off everyone over 70.

It would also turn all emergency rooms into the hell holes you see on inner city cop shows. I've been to the energy room in question. The only difference I noticed from the one the speaker prefers are levels of melatonin.

Haven't you heard? Some white folks can't mix with the "colored folks". -eye roller-

Was naive when I thought racism would die with our grandparents. Admittedly I was alot younger.

oh now I get it. I was thinking, are the attendings sleep deprived and therefore taking melatonin?

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #735 on: January 20, 2020, 09:25:43 AM »
Also - no one here is suggesting HRC be installed as president. The argument is that Trump is unfit fo office, having violated his oath and broken numerous laws. Ergo, Mike Pence should be president.

(Four years ago I never thought I would have uttered that last sentence).

I think the fear is that Pence is implicated in the same shenanigans and many believe that means Pelosi would be next in line. However, since Pence is not being impeached at this time, he would nominate a VP who would most likely replace him.

I've been trying to get Republican friends I have to mentally "stand down" by assuring them that Pence was a good business-friendly governor in Indiana (in addition to his faith-credentials. Every time, I get reminded that the Republican party has basically been remade as Trump's party. He owns it. They have tied themselves to him irreversibly.

Which is why I think the GOP will face huge headwinds in the decades to come. Those under 35 are deeply disdainful of Trump and the white, isolationist world he embodies. They are more diverse, more international and more accepting of the non-Christian family roles than his supporters. His most ardent supporters (older white non college-educated men) are dying out.

How does the GOP expect to recruit the 20-somethings as the become middle-aged after they have been so vehemently opposed to so much of this presidency?

One could argue that the GOP recovered after Nixon - but it was Nixon’s own party that ultimately forced him to leave office and made him a pariah. There’s no equivalent here. As you say the GOP is now the Party of Trump  ( the POT?)

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #736 on: January 20, 2020, 09:32:42 AM »
Also - no one here is suggesting HRC be installed as president. The argument is that Trump is unfit fo office, having violated his oath and broken numerous laws. Ergo, Mike Pence should be president.

(Four years ago I never thought I would have uttered that last sentence).

I think the fear is that Pence is implicated in the same shenanigans and many believe that means Pelosi would be next in line. However, since Pence is not being impeached at this time, he would nominate a VP who would most likely replace him.

I've been trying to get Republican friends I have to mentally "stand down" by assuring them that Pence was a good business-friendly governor in Indiana (in addition to his faith-credentials. Every time, I get reminded that the Republican party has basically been remade as Trump's party. He owns it. They have tied themselves to him irreversibly.

Which is why I think the GOP will face huge headwinds in the decades to come. Those under 35 are deeply disdainful of Trump and the white, isolationist world he embodies. They are more diverse, more international and more accepting of the non-Christian family roles than his supporters. His most ardent supporters (older white non college-educated men) are dying out.

How does the GOP expect to recruit the 20-somethings as the become middle-aged after they have been so vehemently opposed to so much of this presidency?

One could argue that the GOP recovered after Nixon - but it was Nixon’s own party that ultimately forced him to leave office and made him a pariah. There’s no equivalent here. As you say the GOP is now the Party of Trump  ( the POT?)

I agree. And I mean, I think in a way they know that -- given how hard they are working on voter suppression, etc. The GOP is going to have an increasingly hard time winning legitimately going forward, so they have to figure out more and more powerful ways of doing it illegitimately.

I have been watching a small, individual transformation in the person of my stepdaughter's boyfriend (now husband). They dated for 10 years before getting married this summer -- first date was their junior prom. Back then, he was Catholic and Republican. As he was through most of college. But Trump's election and the aftermath has pushed him completely away from that party. When they first were together, we avoided talking politics in his presence because we liked him and didn't want him to feel outnumbered, since my stepdaughter, DH, and I are all lefties. But in the last year or so, he is the one bringing up the racist, sexist, and homophobic BS of the GOP. He's done with them completely at this point.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #737 on: January 20, 2020, 09:51:44 AM »
But in the last year or so, he is the one bringing up the racist, sexist, and homophobic BS of the GOP. He's done with them completely at this point.

Me too. I used to be a registered Republican until 2016. I legitimately can't remember if I voted for Obama in either of his elections, but I voted in the Republican primaries both times.

Never again. Not only have they revealed (over Obama's tenure too) how racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. they are, but also they openly fight against fair elections, deny science and truth at every turn and instead constantly prop up conspiracy theories, oppose true freedom of religion and every other individual freedom (except the 2nd amendment, that one I'll give them) at every opportunity.

I don't know if I was just stupid before or if the party really has changed that much (or some combination of the two), but once you've pulled back the curtain this far you can never put it back again.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 09:55:09 AM by sherr »

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #738 on: January 20, 2020, 10:02:04 AM »
But in the last year or so, he is the one bringing up the racist, sexist, and homophobic BS of the GOP. He's done with them completely at this point.

Me too. I used to be a registered Republican until 2016. I legitimately can't remember if I voted for Obama in either of his elections, but I voted in the Republican primaries both times.

Never again. Not only have they revealed (over Obama's tenure too) how racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. they are, but also they openly fight against fair elections, deny science and truth at every turn and instead constantly prop up conspiracy theories, oppose true freedom of religion and every other individual freedom (except the 2nd amendment, that one I'll give them) at every opportunity.

I don't know if I was just stupid before or if the party really has changed that much (or some combination of the two), but once you've pulled back the curtain this far you can never put it back again.

John McCain did his best to redeem himself at the end, but even in 2008 his platform, and especially his choice of running mate, made even Bush Jr. look enlightened.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #739 on: January 20, 2020, 10:07:01 AM »
Did anyone ever get the story on why McCain picked Palin?  That never made any kind of sense to me.  Until the election of Trump I would have been hard pressed to find a less qualified person for the position.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #740 on: January 20, 2020, 10:20:45 AM »
Did anyone ever get the story on why McCain picked Palin?  That never made any kind of sense to me.  Until the election of Trump I would have been hard pressed to find a less qualified person for the position.

If my brain gets the name correct thats the Tea Party person, right?

Easy answer then: Power. Voter power for example.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #741 on: January 20, 2020, 10:59:01 AM »
Did anyone ever get the story on why McCain picked Palin?  That never made any kind of sense to me.  Until the election of Trump I would have been hard pressed to find a less qualified person for the position.

Exactly. Sarah Palin was the point at which I refused to consider the Republican Party as a viable voting option. I was actually undecided between McCain and Obama at that point. She was the deciding factor that drove me to vote Obama in 2008.

The overt bigotry and celebrated ignorance of the Tea Party and their complete takeover of the GOP at the state (Michigan) and federal levels has kept me voting straight-ticket Democrat ever since. At this point, I can't see why I would ever again vote for a GOP candidate. It's the party of Trump. I would welcome a viable party for candidates who are fiscal and environmental conservationists and want to move the USA into the future instead of yearning for an impossible racist, sexist past. I might not always vote for those politicians, but at least we would have viable choices.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #742 on: January 20, 2020, 12:06:28 PM »
Did anyone ever get the story on why McCain picked Palin?  That never made any kind of sense to me.  Until the election of Trump I would have been hard pressed to find a less qualified person for the position.

I think McCain realized he was going to lose that election, and so he began doing more and more desperate things to try to turn that election around. Palin's record as a mayor and governor in Alaska were pretty decent. The caricature she became was made possible by a convergence of Tea Party Politics and the rise of reality television.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #743 on: January 20, 2020, 12:12:42 PM »
Did anyone ever get the story on why McCain picked Palin?  That never made any kind of sense to me.  Until the election of Trump I would have been hard pressed to find a less qualified person for the position.

I think McCain realized he was going to lose that election, and so he began doing more and more desperate things to try to turn that election around. Palin's record as a mayor and governor in Alaska were pretty decent. The caricature she became was made possible by a convergence of Tea Party Politics and the rise of reality television.

Well, and because she was actually super-unqualified. They definitely didn't vet her well enough, and they didn't do themselves any favors by not giving themselves enough time to get her up to speed -- which would have taken quite a while given her lack of knowledge. They could have made her into a decent candidate if they'd had enough time... but of course, the better choice would have been to choose someone who was already decently qualified.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #744 on: January 20, 2020, 12:19:28 PM »
At the time I had several conservative friends tell my Bobby Jindal would have been a superior choice to Palin. He did serve out his term (and win re-election) in Louisiana, but I don't think he looks any better in hindsight.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #745 on: January 20, 2020, 09:37:57 PM »
It is hard for me to understand the intersection of race, religion and politics in America. In this respect your country is centuries behind the rest of the developed world.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #746 on: January 20, 2020, 10:04:23 PM »
It is hard for me to understand the intersection of race, religion and politics in America. In this respect your country is centuries behind the rest of the developed world.

You'll have to explain that one further because I completely disagree.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #747 on: January 20, 2020, 10:12:33 PM »
There's still a lot of racial politics in the U.S., not just confined to xenophobia/migration (which is normal in a lot of countries). The tension between resident blacks and resident whites is still real. And religion still plays a huge role in U.S. politics, which I find to be barbaric.

Note that I voted for our conservative party last election, so I'm hardly a raging lefty. But the standards of U.S. political discourse, when looked upon from the outside, are barbaric.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #748 on: January 20, 2020, 10:45:33 PM »
This is coming from a person from Australia one of the least diverse countries in the world? There is on going tension, but to believe that somehow other western countries wouldn't experience this kind of struggle? Maybe a Canadian can have some clout saying they have a more stable country atm, but even they have a racial divide.

You didn't list anything about religion, so guess that means you didn't really have anything to actually say on the matter.

It looks to me like you really don't understand American politics and just want to sweep it under the rug. From where I'm standing, Australian politics looks barbaric to me. (And look my claim is just as valid :) )

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #749 on: January 20, 2020, 10:54:56 PM »
The fact that large swathes of your country believes in the literal truth of the Bible and intelligent design is sufficient for me.

Australia's current PM is sadly religious but in the past decade we have had a female atheist PM and another agnostic PM on both sides of the political divide.

Australia not diverse? 1 in 2 have an overseas born parent:
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/education/face-facts-cultural-diversity

I lived in the U.S., so I understand what American politics is like - it's barbarous.