Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 500963 times)

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 14207
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6900 on: January 11, 2021, 10:56:53 AM »
Maybe, I'm genuinely confused.  I see they've released it, so you can go read the text of it, but all the news outlets are reporting that it was formally introduced.  The session was only like 11 minutes long and I watched it but didn't see it get formally introduced.
As I understand it, the Democrat caucus has finalized one article of impeachment, which is available to read online.  That resolution will be introduced to the House during a future session - most likely on Wednesday - when they will vote on whether to impeach Trump for a second time.

This is the way resolutions typically go - they are written and published so that lawmakers can (at least in theory) read them and decide whether to support them or not.

And that qualifies as being "formally introduced during the pro forma session"?  I still have the C-Span tab open to the video I watched and it's titled "WATCH: Articles of Impeachment Introduced in the U.S. House of...".  Kind of odd to say here is a link for you to watch the articles get introduced, when the reality is that it's simply published online completely separately from the pro forma session.

I think it's all procedural, but yes the terminology is strange. 
A resolution must be formally introduced in advance so that it can be read by all members before it can be debated and voted upon. It can only be introduced while congress is in session, but there's typically no debate or discussion at that time.
My understanding is that is what happened today.

dividendman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1370
  • Age: 38
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6901 on: January 11, 2021, 11:00:40 AM »
Would be surprised to see which CDN would allow Parler. And on that bare metal comment their CEO made... yeah, right. I have an old dual hex-core HP ProLiant that I can sell them, with 8 146GB SAS drives. Can come pre-installed with MS Hyper-V or VMware, as a freebie offer. Best part, it generates a ton of white noise that can help drown out all that "Librul Noiz".

It would be funny if Baidu's US subsidiary offered themselves, running the service on Huawei servers :P

Seriously, what the US is doing now with the tech purge of both people thrown out from the social platforms in unknown numbers and the takedown of Parler is seriously scary.  It takes a lot of work later to either show that these were conditions extreme enough to warrant this and that it was "one time only", or something else that takes care of the long term.  We in Europe are not really the ones to speak for "totally free speech" with our hate speech laws and similar restrictions but even Merkel thinks this is problematic according to my local news outlet.

Personally I couldn't even stand five minutes on Twitter and Parler seemed like another level of hell in comparison - but this silencing can backfire radically.  Something along the lines of the Dolchstoßlegende might be one outcome among the fringes. 

I'm scared for the long term consequences of this. And I'm not even American.

The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.

Anyone is free to start their own company or service where they may do the same thing.

The First Amendment, the freedom of speech, only restricts the government in its ability to censure or restrict speech. It actually allows for private entities and individuals to do exactly what Twitter, Amazon, etc. are doing right now.

Twitter is a company, much like a bakery, and Trump is a customer, much like a gay couple.

Yes, being a social liberal, but also a classical liberal in that I value individual rights over most things, I was in another thread arguing that the state should also not compel bakers to provide services to anyone (i.e. racist bakers should be able to deny whatever races they want). I know it's not a popular opinion, but, although I find the fact that someone would do that to be repugnant, I don't think they should face government consequences.

Anyway, the law does force private companies to serve some protected classes, but the reasons parler etc. were denied doesn't fall into those.


Alfred J Quack

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 351
  • Location: Netherlands
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6902 on: January 11, 2021, 11:01:37 AM »
Would be surprised to see which CDN would allow Parler. And on that bare metal comment their CEO made... yeah, right. I have an old dual hex-core HP ProLiant that I can sell them, with 8 146GB SAS drives. Can come pre-installed with MS Hyper-V or VMware, as a freebie offer. Best part, it generates a ton of white noise that can help drown out all that "Librul Noiz".

It would be funny if Baidu's US subsidiary offered themselves, running the service on Huawei servers :P

Seriously, what the US is doing now with the tech purge of both people thrown out from the social platforms in unknown numbers and the takedown of Parler is seriously scary.  It takes a lot of work later to either show that these were conditions extreme enough to warrant this and that it was "one time only", or something else that takes care of the long term.  We in Europe are not really the ones to speak for "totally free speech" with our hate speech laws and similar restrictions but even Merkel thinks this is problematic according to my local news outlet.

Personally I couldn't even stand five minutes on Twitter and Parler seemed like another level of hell in comparison - but this silencing can backfire radically.  Something along the lines of the Dolchstoßlegende might be one outcome among the fringes. 

I'm scared for the long term consequences of this. And I'm not even American.
I understand your concern but a totally unmoderated forum that has extremist visitors spouting whatever conspiracy theory you can think of and accept them for truth sounds a lot more of a threat.

Yes, there is freedom of speech but that doesn't mean a platform is free from consquences. Because when does freedom of speech become hate speech, and when does a call to action become a call to violence or worse? I'm not saying it should be censored but I am saying a platform should at least be responsible for what people post on it.
In all fairness posts on twitter, Facebook and other social media are received with the same credibility as posts on other media outlets, if only because they are endlessly posted and reposted. Sure, some of those posters do their homework and actually have real research to back up their claim but the same is said about 5G being deadly because a flock were found dead beneath a cell tower (not even a 5G one). Said birds were appearently poisened due to something in the watersupply but nobody read that post. If you point them to said post, the idiots say it's a cover up. They went down the rabbit hole and some of those cooks are actually setting cell towers on fire because of it...

So sure, freedom of speech. But if someone reports it as false, you as a platform have to do something about it.

I'm european too by the way.

sui generis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2004
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6903 on: January 11, 2021, 11:02:20 AM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

The only reason to be scared is because these companies control so much of this industry and of the market.  And that's an antitrust issue, not a speech issue.  We should be using the levers of antitrust to prevent companies from having undue control, and people like Elizabeth Warren have been calling for this for a long time.  The same conservatives and RWNJ who are today upset about the companies' actions against someone they like are the ones that don't want to use the antitrust laws on our books to cut the head off the monster rather than just the one limb that's attacking them.

Alfred J Quack

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 351
  • Location: Netherlands
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6904 on: January 11, 2021, 11:08:00 AM »
Yes, being a social liberal, but also a classical liberal in that I value individual rights over most things, I was in another thread arguing that the state should also not compel bakers to provide services to anyone (i.e. racist bakers should be able to deny whatever races they want). I know it's not a popular opinion, but, although I find the fact that someone would do that to be repugnant, I don't think they should face government consequences.

Anyway, the law does force private companies to serve some protected classes, but the reasons parler etc. were denied doesn't fall into those.
Well, in my home country a business can opt to refuse service to customers. However, they cannot do so on the basis of race, gender and sexuality. There are also some branches which are excluded from this right (social housing, banks) but they have other reasons which are given enough weight to refuse service (fraud).

This right is generally invoked when customers steal or are generally really bad in another way (violent against personell or other customers and such).

FIPurpose

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1510
  • Location: WA
    • FI With Purpose
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6905 on: January 11, 2021, 11:21:09 AM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

Companies throwing people off the platform for inciting violence or any other crime (child pornography, terrorist activity, etc.) has been happening forever and in some cases is even required by law. Why so concerned now?

bacchi

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5445
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6906 on: January 11, 2021, 11:34:25 AM »
In the past few weeks, Parler was full of violent posts. Lin Wood posted that Pence must be shot.

Quote from: linwood
Get the firing squads ready. Pence goes FIRST.

Amazon gave Parler time to remove the violent posts and come up with a plan to moderate future posts. Their "volunteer moderator" plan didn't meet Amazon's bar.


John Galt incarnate!

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2034
  • Location: On Cloud Nine
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6907 on: January 11, 2021, 12:14:02 PM »
Wikipedia

John Feerick, the principal drafter of the 25th Amendment writes that Congress determined that "a rigid constitutional definition [of the terms unable and inability] was undesirable, since cases of inability could take various forms not neatly fitting into such a definition .

The debates surrounding the Twenty-fifth Amendment indicate that the terms unable and inability are intended to cover all cases in which some condition or circumstance prevents the President from discharging his powers and duties

A survey of scholarship on the amendment found no specific threshold – medical or otherwise – for the "inability" contemplated in Section 4.

The framers specifically rejected any definition of the term, prioritizing flexibility. Those implementing Section 4 should focus on whether – in an objective sense taking all of the circumstances into account – the President is "unable to discharge the powers and duties" of the office.

The amendment does not require that any particular type or amount of evidence be submitted to determine that the President is unable to perform his duties.

While the framers did imagine that medical evidence would be helpful to the determination of whether the President is unable, neither medical expertise nor diagnosis is required for a determination of inability.

To be sure, foremost in [the minds of the framers] was a physical or mental impairment. But the text of Section 4 sets forth a flexible standard intentionally designed to apply to a wide variety of unforeseen emergencies.



Here is  the Presidential Oath of Office.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


 I think the particular circumstance of President Trump's incitement of insurrection is a naked  manifestation of gross  unfitness to remain in  office  that  is tantamount to a demonstration of his inability to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States," more than sufficient grounds for his removal under the 25th Amendment.

 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 12:41:37 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

bbqbonelesswing

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 287
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Philly
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6908 on: January 11, 2021, 12:18:50 PM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

Companies throwing people off the platform for inciting violence or any other crime (child pornography, terrorist activity, etc.) has been happening forever and in some cases is even required by law. Why so concerned now?

True. I work for a cloud provider and we take down content every day. Knowingly hosting a site like Parler, which not only fails to regulate itself but makes it known that illegal and violent content is welcome, opens any host up to so many legal issues.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 14207
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6909 on: January 11, 2021, 12:40:01 PM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

Companies throwing people off the platform for inciting violence or any other crime (child pornography, terrorist activity, etc.) has been happening forever and in some cases is even required by law. Why so concerned now?

True. I work for a cloud provider and we take down content every day. Knowingly hosting a site like Parler, which not only fails to regulate itself but makes it known that illegal and violent content is welcome, opens any host up to so many legal issues.

I mean, just look at this from a business owner’s perspective:
Hey boss!  I’ve got a potential new client - their previous host wants nothing to do with them, they are being investigated by the DOJ and the FBI for criminal prosecution, and a bunch of their members are neo-nazis.  Should we take them on?!?

jinga nation

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1712
  • Location: 'Murica's Johnson
  • Left, Right, Peddlin' Shite
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6910 on: January 11, 2021, 01:54:48 PM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

Companies throwing people off the platform for inciting violence or any other crime (child pornography, terrorist activity, etc.) has been happening forever and in some cases is even required by law. Why so concerned now?

True. I work for a cloud provider and we take down content every day. Knowingly hosting a site like Parler, which not only fails to regulate itself but makes it known that illegal and violent content is welcome, opens any host up to so many legal issues.

I mean, just look at this from a business owner’s perspective:
Hey boss!  I’ve got a potential new client - their previous host wants nothing to do with them, they are being investigated by the DOJ and the FBI for criminal prosecution, and a bunch of their members are neo-nazis.  Should we take them on?!?

They could use Yandex or any Rossiya-based cloud provider. Make Vladi-daddy Happy Very!
Or they could have it made hosted in China, just like all the Trump store products.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 01:56:35 PM by jinga nation »

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4223
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6911 on: January 11, 2021, 03:33:19 PM »
Yet another cabinet member bites the dust:

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf Resigns

Quote
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf has submitted his resignation. ABC News released this internal message he sent to staff: 

“I am saddened to take this step, as it was my intention to serve the Department until the end of this Administration. Unfortunately, this action is warranted by recent events, including the ongoing and meritless court rulings regarding the validity of my authority as Acting Secretary. These events and concerns increasingly serve to divert attention and resources away from the important work of the Department in this critical time of a transition of power.”

Thanks, dude. Way to back out right before armed militia are planning to attack all 50 state capitols. Have some cheese with that whine.

scottish

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1925
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6912 on: January 11, 2021, 03:44:08 PM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

Companies throwing people off the platform for inciting violence or any other crime (child pornography, terrorist activity, etc.) has been happening forever and in some cases is even required by law. Why so concerned now?

True. I work for a cloud provider and we take down content every day. Knowingly hosting a site like Parler, which not only fails to regulate itself but makes it known that illegal and violent content is welcome, opens any host up to so many legal issues.

I mean, just look at this from a business owner’s perspective:
Hey boss!  I’ve got a potential new client - their previous host wants nothing to do with them, they are being investigated by the DOJ and the FBI for criminal prosecution, and a bunch of their members are neo-nazis.  Should we take them on?!?

They could use Yandex or any Rossiya-based cloud provider. Make Vladi-daddy Happy Very!
Or they could have it made hosted in China, just like all the Trump store products.

I'm finding the discussion in the news interesting.   The gop wants to revoke section 250 (I think that's the number) which provides a legal shield protecting service providers like Facebook from the consequences of content posted by their users.    I believe the gop thinks this will stop the social media companies from "censoring" conservative posters.

But I have to think that this will make it *more* likely for them to remove controversial posts  - which are the very posts the conservatives are complaining about being moderated.

sherr

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1543
  • Age: 35
  • Location: North Carolina, USA
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6913 on: January 11, 2021, 04:05:20 PM »
I'm finding the discussion in the news interesting.   The gop wants to revoke section 250 (I think that's the number) which provides a legal shield protecting service providers like Facebook from the consequences of content posted by their users.    I believe the gop thinks this will stop the social media companies from "censoring" conservative posters.

But I have to think that this will make it *more* likely for them to remove controversial posts  - which are the very posts the conservatives are complaining about being moderated.

It absolutely would lead to them getting moderated much harder. If Facebook is legally liable for stuff that people say on it, they will boot people off at the drop of a proverbial hat.

Poundwise

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6914 on: January 11, 2021, 04:15:48 PM »
Yet another cabinet member bites the dust:

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf Resigns

Quote
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf has submitted his resignation. ABC News released this internal message he sent to staff: 

“I am saddened to take this step, as it was my intention to serve the Department until the end of this Administration. Unfortunately, this action is warranted by recent events, including the ongoing and meritless court rulings regarding the validity of my authority as Acting Secretary. These events and concerns increasingly serve to divert attention and resources away from the important work of the Department in this critical time of a transition of power.”

Thanks, dude. Way to back out right before armed militia are planning to attack all 50 state capitols. Have some cheese with that whine.

Is anybody running the government at all, or are we in complete free fall??

ixtap

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2916
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6915 on: January 11, 2021, 04:33:08 PM »
Yet another cabinet member bites the dust:

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf Resigns

Quote
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf has submitted his resignation. ABC News released this internal message he sent to staff: 

“I am saddened to take this step, as it was my intention to serve the Department until the end of this Administration. Unfortunately, this action is warranted by recent events, including the ongoing and meritless court rulings regarding the validity of my authority as Acting Secretary. These events and concerns increasingly serve to divert attention and resources away from the important work of the Department in this critical time of a transition of power.”

Thanks, dude. Way to back out right before armed militia are planning to attack all 50 state capitols. Have some cheese with that whine.

Is anybody running the government at all, or are we in complete free fall??

I am hoping it is in the hands of the lifers who care!

Glenstache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2854
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6916 on: January 11, 2021, 04:42:07 PM »
Yet another cabinet member bites the dust:

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf Resigns

Quote
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf has submitted his resignation. ABC News released this internal message he sent to staff: 

“I am saddened to take this step, as it was my intention to serve the Department until the end of this Administration. Unfortunately, this action is warranted by recent events, including the ongoing and meritless court rulings regarding the validity of my authority as Acting Secretary. These events and concerns increasingly serve to divert attention and resources away from the important work of the Department in this critical time of a transition of power.”

Thanks, dude. Way to back out right before armed militia are planning to attack all 50 state capitols. Have some cheese with that whine.

Is anybody running the government at all, or are we in complete free fall??

I am hoping it is in the hands of the lifers who care!

The deep state is there to save the day.

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3491
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6917 on: January 11, 2021, 04:53:47 PM »
Yet another cabinet member bites the dust:

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf Resigns

Quote
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf has submitted his resignation. ABC News released this internal message he sent to staff: 

“I am saddened to take this step, as it was my intention to serve the Department until the end of this Administration. Unfortunately, this action is warranted by recent events, including the ongoing and meritless court rulings regarding the validity of my authority as Acting Secretary. These events and concerns increasingly serve to divert attention and resources away from the important work of the Department in this critical time of a transition of power.”

Thanks, dude. Way to back out right before armed militia are planning to attack all 50 state capitols. Have some cheese with that whine.

He's been acting DHS for some time now and on paper was nominated to be the permanent head. Trump withdrew the appointment after Wolf came out against last week's mess.

sui generis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2004
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6918 on: January 11, 2021, 04:59:46 PM »
Yet another cabinet member bites the dust:

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf Resigns

Quote
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf has submitted his resignation. ABC News released this internal message he sent to staff: 

“I am saddened to take this step, as it was my intention to serve the Department until the end of this Administration. Unfortunately, this action is warranted by recent events, including the ongoing and meritless court rulings regarding the validity of my authority as Acting Secretary. These events and concerns increasingly serve to divert attention and resources away from the important work of the Department in this critical time of a transition of power.”

Thanks, dude. Way to back out right before armed militia are planning to attack all 50 state capitols. Have some cheese with that whine.

Is anybody running the government at all, or are we in complete free fall??

I am hoping it is in the hands of the lifers who care!

The deep state is there to save the day.

Emmmm, I hope they are doing a lot of vetting of their officers before placing them on protection duty on 1/20...I have seen enough about their union and individual officers to suspect that some percentage of them would like to help he insurrectionists more than the Capitol Police did last Wednesday...

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4223
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6919 on: January 11, 2021, 05:00:03 PM »
Yet another cabinet member bites the dust:

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf Resigns

Quote
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf has submitted his resignation. ABC News released this internal message he sent to staff: 

“I am saddened to take this step, as it was my intention to serve the Department until the end of this Administration. Unfortunately, this action is warranted by recent events, including the ongoing and meritless court rulings regarding the validity of my authority as Acting Secretary. These events and concerns increasingly serve to divert attention and resources away from the important work of the Department in this critical time of a transition of power.”

Thanks, dude. Way to back out right before armed militia are planning to attack all 50 state capitols. Have some cheese with that whine.

Is anybody running the government at all, or are we in complete free fall??

Pence, Joint Chiefs, and Congress, pretty much.

geekette

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2091
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6920 on: January 11, 2021, 05:00:30 PM »
Yet another cabinet member bites the dust:

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf Resigns

Quote
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf has submitted his resignation. ABC News released this internal message he sent to staff: 

“I am saddened to take this step, as it was my intention to serve the Department until the end of this Administration. Unfortunately, this action is warranted by recent events, including the ongoing and meritless court rulings regarding the validity of my authority as Acting Secretary. These events and concerns increasingly serve to divert attention and resources away from the important work of the Department in this critical time of a transition of power.”

Thanks, dude. Way to back out right before armed militia are planning to attack all 50 state capitols. Have some cheese with that whine.

Is anybody running the government at all, or are we in complete free fall??

I hear he's traveling to Alamo, Tx to tout his whopping 30 miles of border wall completed.  That seems...important?

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3491
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6921 on: January 11, 2021, 05:00:49 PM »
I'm finding the discussion in the news interesting.   The gop wants to revoke section 250 (I think that's the number) which provides a legal shield protecting service providers like Facebook from the consequences of content posted by their users.    I believe the gop thinks this will stop the social media companies from "censoring" conservative posters.

But I have to think that this will make it *more* likely for them to remove controversial posts  - which are the very posts the conservatives are complaining about being moderated.

It absolutely would lead to them getting moderated much harder. If Facebook is legally liable for stuff that people say on it, they will boot people off at the drop of a proverbial hat.

This was at the core of the debate a short while back when the CDA was updated to hold these companies accountable for sex trafficking on their sites. Zuckerberg and friends pledged to voluntarily have higher standards for the other subject areas (violence, lies, and such) in order to soften the crackdown on their liability shield.  Now they're doing exactly what Congress ordered them to do, but it just so happens that Trump's friends are on the receiving end of it. Conservatives love to rail against government interference and praise the free market until it infringes on their pet issues. 

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3491
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6922 on: January 11, 2021, 05:03:02 PM »
Yet another cabinet member bites the dust:

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf Resigns

Quote
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf has submitted his resignation. ABC News released this internal message he sent to staff: 

“I am saddened to take this step, as it was my intention to serve the Department until the end of this Administration. Unfortunately, this action is warranted by recent events, including the ongoing and meritless court rulings regarding the validity of my authority as Acting Secretary. These events and concerns increasingly serve to divert attention and resources away from the important work of the Department in this critical time of a transition of power.”

Thanks, dude. Way to back out right before armed militia are planning to attack all 50 state capitols. Have some cheese with that whine.

Is anybody running the government at all, or are we in complete free fall??

I hear he's traveling to Alamo, Tx to tout his whopping 30 miles of border wall completed.  That seems...important?

He's trying to write a few more checks for wall construction before he's out. Priorities you know.

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4334
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6923 on: January 11, 2021, 05:27:53 PM »
All those places are big business. The only reason they shut Trump and others down is that overthrowing governments and lack of a stable society and economy are bad for business. Like someone else said if they are not selling anything you are the product. Trump (and his overthrow the gov followers) are bad for business.

scottish

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1925
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6924 on: January 11, 2021, 05:57:02 PM »
All those places are big business. The only reason they shut Trump and others down is that overthrowing governments and lack of a stable society and economy are bad for business. Like someone else said if they are not selling anything you are the product. Trump (and his overthrow the gov followers) are bad for business.

Yeah it's one of those rare cases where society's interests might align with the interests of a few big companies.    It's still very interesting.   


nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 14207
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6925 on: January 11, 2021, 06:01:45 PM »
Meanwhile, someone etched "Trump" into the skin of a manatee...

...really??  Some people are just sick.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/11/manatee-trump-etched-into-back-florida

ixtap

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2916
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6926 on: January 11, 2021, 06:02:14 PM »
Merkel saying it was all "problematic." Yes, it is very problematic. But unlike you, we don't have anti-Nazi laws until it arises to the level violence and none of these companies actually cared about the violent threats. I saw people clamoring for bugaloo on FB and they weren't interested in dancing.

jinga nation

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1712
  • Location: 'Murica's Johnson
  • Left, Right, Peddlin' Shite
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6927 on: January 11, 2021, 06:05:42 PM »
Yet another cabinet member bites the dust:

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf Resigns

Quote
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf has submitted his resignation. ABC News released this internal message he sent to staff: 

“I am saddened to take this step, as it was my intention to serve the Department until the end of this Administration. Unfortunately, this action is warranted by recent events, including the ongoing and meritless court rulings regarding the validity of my authority as Acting Secretary. These events and concerns increasingly serve to divert attention and resources away from the important work of the Department in this critical time of a transition of power.”

Thanks, dude. Way to back out right before armed militia are planning to attack all 50 state capitols. Have some cheese with that whine.

Is anybody running the government at all, or are we in complete free fall??

I hear he's traveling to Alamo, Tx to tout his whopping 30 miles of border wall completed.  That seems...important?

He's trying to write a few more checks for wall construction before he's out. Priorities you know.

The wall climbers at the Capitol proved that walls don't work.

seattlecyclone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5697
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Seattle, WA
    • My blog
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6928 on: January 11, 2021, 09:10:33 PM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

The only reason to be scared is because these companies control so much of this industry and of the market.  And that's an antitrust issue, not a speech issue.

This is basically my take on it.

I have zero problem whatsoever with the owners of a website setting rules about what can be published on that website. Don't like it? Make your own website. That's the beauty of the web. Anyone can put a site online.

I have very little problem with the owners of web servers setting rules about what can be hosted on those servers. There are tons of hosting providers out there. Maybe if you want to run something really big that none of the big guys will touch, you'll need to be creative about spinning up your own data centers at great expense. That barrier to entry is my only concern. In the end if you can plug a sufficient number of computers into networks operated by common carriers, you can put your site online.

When it comes to the app stores my opinion is a bit different. There are exactly two mobile phone operating systems that have any relevance. Both of them are designed to strongly encourage you to get all of your software from the store operated by the operating system manufacturer. Apple and Google therefore have a tremendous amount of control over what we are able to do with the devices we have purchased. As a device owner and occasional maker of software I would strongly prefer that they let people install whatever software they want without exercising any editorial control over the process.

The fact that we seem to have both companies in agreement that they won't allow communication apps without active moderation around certain topics does seem like a bridge too far for me. But my concern isn't that they're violating my freedom of speech, it's that they're abusing their monopoly (or duopoly) to make it harder for people to use their property how they wish. This concern would evaporate if both OSes made it easy for you to install software outside of the official app store. Android already supports this if you're willing to change the default security settings. Last I checked iOS didn't, but I'm not a regular user of that OS.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6153
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6929 on: January 11, 2021, 09:17:29 PM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

The only reason to be scared is because these companies control so much of this industry and of the market.  And that's an antitrust issue, not a speech issue.

This is basically my take on it.

I have zero problem whatsoever with the owners of a website setting rules about what can be published on that website. Don't like it? Make your own website. That's the beauty of the web. Anyone can put a site online.

I have very little problem with the owners of web servers setting rules about what can be hosted on those servers. There are tons of hosting providers out there. Maybe if you want to run something really big that none of the big guys will touch, you'll need to be creative about spinning up your own data centers at great expense. That barrier to entry is my only concern. In the end if you can plug a sufficient number of computers into networks operated by common carriers, you can put your site online.

When it comes to the app stores my opinion is a bit different. There are exactly two mobile phone operating systems that have any relevance. Both of them are designed to strongly encourage you to get all of your software from the store operated by the operating system manufacturer. Apple and Google therefore have a tremendous amount of control over what we are able to do with the devices we have purchased. As a device owner and occasional maker of software I would strongly prefer that they let people install whatever software they want without exercising any editorial control over the process.

The fact that we seem to have both companies in agreement that they won't allow communication apps without active moderation around certain topics does seem like a bridge too far for me. But my concern isn't that they're violating my freedom of speech, it's that they're abusing their monopoly (or duopoly) to make it harder for people to use their property how they wish. This concern would evaporate if both OSes made it easy for you to install software outside of the official app store. Android already supports this if you're willing to change the default security settings. Last I checked iOS didn't, but I'm not a regular user of that OS.
You can use your phone as a phone, to talk and text, without going to an app store.  You can use any other device using any program from anywhere to do everything else.  Choose your device wisely, I don't see the problem.

Otherwise, isn't it peaceful since Trump stopped tweeting, with Nancy and the Joint Chiefs in charge?  If Twitter had cut him off 4 years ago he would probably have won re-election.

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4518
  • Age: 125
  • Location: Just past the red barn on the left.
  • Here to learn.
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6930 on: January 11, 2021, 09:17:56 PM »
Twitter is a company, much like a bakery, and Trump is a customer, much like a gay couple.

You nailed it.

I guess with traditional social media out of reach - conservative supporters could go over and join one of the existing extremist forums elsewhere.

Maybe then they would start to recognize that things have gotten out of hand i.e. maybe those far right folks would scare the Trump supporters into moderating.

Saw a picture of the Capitol walls being climbed. Someone titled it "Honkey Kong". ;)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 09:30:20 PM by Just Joe »

Abe

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1831
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6931 on: January 11, 2021, 09:28:24 PM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

The only reason to be scared is because these companies control so much of this industry and of the market.  And that's an antitrust issue, not a speech issue.

This is basically my take on it.

I have zero problem whatsoever with the owners of a website setting rules about what can be published on that website. Don't like it? Make your own website. That's the beauty of the web. Anyone can put a site online.

I have very little problem with the owners of web servers setting rules about what can be hosted on those servers. There are tons of hosting providers out there. Maybe if you want to run something really big that none of the big guys will touch, you'll need to be creative about spinning up your own data centers at great expense. That barrier to entry is my only concern. In the end if you can plug a sufficient number of computers into networks operated by common carriers, you can put your site online.

When it comes to the app stores my opinion is a bit different. There are exactly two mobile phone operating systems that have any relevance. Both of them are designed to strongly encourage you to get all of your software from the store operated by the operating system manufacturer. Apple and Google therefore have a tremendous amount of control over what we are able to do with the devices we have purchased. As a device owner and occasional maker of software I would strongly prefer that they let people install whatever software they want without exercising any editorial control over the process.

The fact that we seem to have both companies in agreement that they won't allow communication apps without active moderation around certain topics does seem like a bridge too far for me. But my concern isn't that they're violating my freedom of speech, it's that they're abusing their monopoly (or duopoly) to make it harder for people to use their property how they wish. This concern would evaporate if both OSes made it easy for you to install software outside of the official app store. Android already supports this if you're willing to change the default security settings. Last I checked iOS didn't, but I'm not a regular user of that OS.
You can use your phone as a phone, to talk and text, without going to an app store.  You can use any other device using any program from anywhere to do everything else.  Choose your device wisely, I don't see the problem.

Otherwise, isn't it peaceful since Trump stopped tweeting, with Nancy and the Joint Chiefs in charge?  If Twitter had cut him off 4 years ago he would probably have won re-election.

I agree. Can't fascists just make their own website to plot a a violent coup? It's like $10/year for a domain name these days. The companies made it very clear what is acceptable in their terms of use, so if a company they contract with violates the contract and gets booted off, that's not an attempt to stymie competition, that's business. Being successful doesn't mean having to be steamrolled by any random company's demands for how they will use your services for illegal purposes. There's no evidence of collusion between the two companies to stymie competition, and I don't think either Apple or Google have their own equivalent that's being promoted over Parler, which is what I think is needed for an anti-trust suit.

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3491
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6932 on: January 11, 2021, 10:01:31 PM »
The social media giants say they're trying to police their sites in good faith with Congress' concerns over violence, hate crimes, and sex trafficking. Section 230 of the CDA gives them legal immunity from content on their sites, but they have no desire to be seen as that place where that mass murder was planned. It seems like a rewrite that spells out moderation and reporting requirements would be useful. Trump just wants to delete the entire clause so he can sue them, and like his desire to delete the ACA, has offered nothing to replace it.  When SOSTA became law, whole sections of the social media space on the internet disappeared overnight either because they were perpetrators, or they didn't want to risk being accused of it even on appearances.  It's no wonder that Google and Facebook oppose removing Section 230. If I planned a crime out in the open on Facebook and then carried it out, the victims could sue Facebook. If Facebook deleted my account for doing so, I could sue them for some kind of First Amendment violation.

https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2018/03/21/591622450/section-230-a-key-legal-shield-for-facebook-google-is-about-to-change

LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2347
  • Location: Germany
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6933 on: January 12, 2021, 04:52:47 AM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

The only reason to be scared is because these companies control so much of this industry and of the market.  And that's an antitrust issue, not a speech issue.  We should be using the levers of antitrust to prevent companies from having undue control, and people like Elizabeth Warren have been calling for this for a long time.  The same conservatives and RWNJ who are today upset about the companies' actions against someone they like are the ones that don't want to use the antitrust laws on our books to cut the head off the monster rather than just the one limb that's attacking them.

Yes, exactly.
There have been proposals in the EU about a law making it mandatory for social media services to make data available to competitors, so that you can switch to another network with the click of a button and still be in the old network of "friends". Like the internet works, just with social media.
Guess what - the big social media platforms HATE that! Because their main user retention method is to make it a huge PITA to go anywhere else.
Just a normal Monopoly/Oligopoly situation.

Twitter is a company, much like a bakery, and Trump is a customer, much like a gay couple.
You nailed it.
No, he didn't. In my town is one baker per 1000 people (if you also count the bread section of the supermarket).
Guess how many social media companies there are. Or road providers.

A baker should not be able to not sell a product based on the skin color of his customers, however it would be a lot less damaging to the customer. The customer can just go to a different baker. But for infrastructure? Are there there different road networks? Another electricity grid?

Losing social media might not be as severe as losing access to street or water, but it is still a normal part of life today. As in personal AND political.

OzzieandHarriet

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 490
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6934 on: January 12, 2021, 05:01:37 AM »
This article about how Trump did nothing to stop the riot. The only excuses his toadies can come up with is that he was enjoying watching it on TV - and that’s a flattering interpretation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-mob-failure/2021/01/11/36a46e2e-542e-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

And Heather Cox Richardson’s daily update here adds a bit more:

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/january-11-2021
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 05:21:34 AM by OzzieandHarriet »

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4223
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6935 on: January 12, 2021, 05:48:58 AM »
The conservative view, and it's the one I agree with is this:

Twitter, Amazon, etc. are all private companies. They are not government entities. They are entitled to restrict usage of their services to anyone for any reason that is not a protected reason under the law.


In principle I agree as I am a free market kind of guy, but in practice I'm still scared.

The only reason to be scared is because these companies control so much of this industry and of the market.  And that's an antitrust issue, not a speech issue.  We should be using the levers of antitrust to prevent companies from having undue control, and people like Elizabeth Warren have been calling for this for a long time.  The same conservatives and RWNJ who are today upset about the companies' actions against someone they like are the ones that don't want to use the antitrust laws on our books to cut the head off the monster rather than just the one limb that's attacking them.

Yes, exactly.
There have been proposals in the EU about a law making it mandatory for social media services to make data available to competitors, so that you can switch to another network with the click of a button and still be in the old network of "friends". Like the internet works, just with social media.
Guess what - the big social media platforms HATE that! Because their main user retention method is to make it a huge PITA to go anywhere else.
Just a normal Monopoly/Oligopoly situation.

Twitter is a company, much like a bakery, and Trump is a customer, much like a gay couple.
You nailed it.
No, he didn't. In my town is one baker per 1000 people (if you also count the bread section of the supermarket).
Guess how many social media companies there are. Or road providers.

A baker should not be able to not sell a product based on the skin color of his customers, however it would be a lot less damaging to the customer. The customer can just go to a different baker. But for infrastructure? Are there there different road networks? Another electricity grid?

Losing social media might not be as severe as losing access to street or water, but it is still a normal part of life today. As in personal AND political.

We’re talking about the US context here. Conservatives argued successfully that anyone should be able to deny service based on issues of perceived morality (e.g., an evangelical Christian baker could not be forced to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple). Those court rulings are now coming back to bite them in the ass. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 06:33:51 AM by OtherJen »

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4168
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6936 on: January 12, 2021, 06:08:06 AM »
This article about how Trump did nothing to stop the riot. The only excuses his toadies can come up with is that he was enjoying watching it on TV - and that’s a flattering interpretation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-mob-failure/2021/01/11/36a46e2e-542e-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

And Heather Cox Richardson’s daily update here adds a bit more:

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/january-11-2021

Phone calls to multiple Senators--including Tommy Tuberville--were placed during the sacking. When Tuberville did get on the phone with Giuliani, he wasn't being asked any questions about his own well-being or the security situation. He was being asked to delay the election certification.

American GenX

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 698
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6937 on: January 12, 2021, 06:25:20 AM »
Twitter is a company, much like a bakery, and Trump is a customer, much like a gay couple.

You nailed it.


Nailed it x2.

Quote
guess with traditional social media out of reach - conservative supporters could go over and join one of the existing extremist forums elsewhere.

They could, but most conservatives are far from being extremists.   The crowd that rushed the capital is just a small slice of those who supported Trump in the 2020 election.  While I didn't support Trump, I know quite a few people who did, and not one of them is extreme by any stretch.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4168
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6938 on: January 12, 2021, 06:29:24 AM »
Indeed I have no doubt that many of the conservatives who are starting up parler accounts are not extreme or violent.

But it doesn't appear that parler had the resources to keep their data safe: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2021/01/11/parler-hack-platform-archived-hackers-capitol-riots/6629772002/

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 14207
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6939 on: January 12, 2021, 07:45:02 AM »
Does anyone here honestly think Trump will be largely silent now that his twitter account and FB have been taken away?
Does anyone here honestly think Trump's next moves will be consolatory and meek?

He's in semi-reclusion right now, brooding and angry.  His smartphone isn't as loud a megaphone anymore, but he'll find a way. He's still got Air Force One (for now) and loves his rallies.  He can still call up half a dozen right-wing news programs and talk rage for an hour straight about everything and nothing. He still can make proclamations and orders that have legal weight and serious ramifications.

This is why I support impeachment and removal.  This is why I continue to have a moment of apprehension each morning when I go to check the news headlines, and I don't see that stopping until after the inauguration. Because Trump isn't going silently into the night, and he's still got way too many unilateral powers (EOs, pardons, commander in chief, and the attention that goes with all that), and he's proven over and over that he'll strike out at anyone if he feels snubbed, even if its against the common good or moral decency.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4555
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6940 on: January 12, 2021, 08:08:05 AM »
A short clip from the simpsons that sums up how the GOP treats trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yurHbGS_Wow

"This is exactly what Bart's teacher was talking about.  Our son did something wrong and you look the other way!  But Marge! Look at that hang dog expression, he's learned his lesson.  Let's get him a present."

ixtap

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2916
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6941 on: January 12, 2021, 08:11:44 AM »
Twitter is a company, much like a bakery, and Trump is a customer, much like a gay couple.

You nailed it.


Nailed it x2.

Quote
guess with traditional social media out of reach - conservative supporters could go over and join one of the existing extremist forums elsewhere.

They could, but most conservatives are far from being extremists.   The crowd that rushed the capital is just a small slice of those who supported Trump in the 2020 election.  While I didn't support Trump, I know quite a few people who did, and not one of them is extreme by any stretch.

Oh I am jealous. Most of the Trump supporters I know have been spewing a constant stream of hate since Obama and Hillary were in the primaries, including pedaling every single one of the conspiracy theories and cutting off any news source that doesn't push those same theories over actual facts.

Alfred J Quack

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 351
  • Location: Netherlands
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6942 on: January 12, 2021, 08:29:42 AM »
Indeed I have no doubt that many of the conservatives who are starting up parler accounts are not extreme or violent.

But it doesn't appear that parler had the resources to keep their data safe: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2021/01/11/parler-hack-platform-archived-hackers-capitol-riots/6629772002/
An interview with the "hacker" in question stated that they only archived 70TB of publicly available data. So not really a hack, just a web scrape. But if the idiots there posted everything damning on the public side just as useful for investigation bureaus.

https://gizmodo.com/every-deleted-parler-post-many-with-users-location-dat-1846032466

Clarification that it was only publicly available data: https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status/1348666166978424832

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4223
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6943 on: January 12, 2021, 08:51:20 AM »
It strikes me that if we ousted all the Trumpers, we'd stop having so many superspreader events in the White House and Capitol.

2nd Congresswoman Contracts COVID-19, Blames Capitol Attack Lockdown

Quote
Rep. Pramila Jayapal has tested positive for COVID-19, a result that she blames on her Republican colleagues' refusal to wear face masks during the hours-long lockdown last Wednesday as pro-Trump extremists attacked the U.S. Capitol.

"Only hours after Trump incited a deadly assault on our Capitol, many Republicans still refused to take the bare minimum COVID-19 precaution and simply wear a damn mask in a crowded room during a pandemic—creating a superspreader event ON TOP of a domestic terrorist attack," Jayapal said on Twitter.

Crowded conditions during the prolonged security lockdown recently prompted Dr. Brian Monahan, the attending physician to Congress, to urge members and staff to get coronavirus tests, citing a high chance of transmission.

Monahan also said that at least one lawmaker who was in a holding area was already positive before the chaotic events forced hundreds of people to gather together.

Honestly, if I were her I would file charges against the COVID-positive lawmaker for reckless endangerment.

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3491
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6944 on: January 12, 2021, 09:12:10 AM »
This article about how Trump did nothing to stop the riot. The only excuses his toadies can come up with is that he was enjoying watching it on TV - and that’s a flattering interpretation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-mob-failure/2021/01/11/36a46e2e-542e-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

And Heather Cox Richardson’s daily update here adds a bit more:

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/january-11-2021

Phone calls to multiple Senators--including Tommy Tuberville--were placed during the sacking. When Tuberville did get on the phone with Giuliani, he wasn't being asked any questions about his own well-being or the security situation. He was being asked to delay the election certification.


Have you heard the audio of the voicemail he left Tuberville? It's fucking creepy in its single-mindedness and tone. "Just delay it. Just object to every state."
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 09:16:12 AM by Travis »

jrhampt

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1302
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Connecticut
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6945 on: January 12, 2021, 09:48:15 AM »
It strikes me that if we ousted all the Trumpers, we'd stop having so many superspreader events in the White House and Capitol.

2nd Congresswoman Contracts COVID-19, Blames Capitol Attack Lockdown

Quote
Rep. Pramila Jayapal has tested positive for COVID-19, a result that she blames on her Republican colleagues' refusal to wear face masks during the hours-long lockdown last Wednesday as pro-Trump extremists attacked the U.S. Capitol.

"Only hours after Trump incited a deadly assault on our Capitol, many Republicans still refused to take the bare minimum COVID-19 precaution and simply wear a damn mask in a crowded room during a pandemic—creating a superspreader event ON TOP of a domestic terrorist attack," Jayapal said on Twitter.

Crowded conditions during the prolonged security lockdown recently prompted Dr. Brian Monahan, the attending physician to Congress, to urge members and staff to get coronavirus tests, citing a high chance of transmission.

Monahan also said that at least one lawmaker who was in a holding area was already positive before the chaotic events forced hundreds of people to gather together.

Honestly, if I were her I would file charges against the COVID-positive lawmaker for reckless endangerment.

And there's already a third - Brad Schneider.  How much of a selfish asshole do you have to be not to put on a damn mask?

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4518
  • Age: 125
  • Location: Just past the red barn on the left.
  • Here to learn.
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6946 on: January 12, 2021, 10:03:38 AM »
Oh I am jealous. Most of the Trump supporters I know have been spewing a constant stream of hate since Obama and Hillary were in the primaries, including pedaling every single one of the conspiracy theories and cutting off any news source that doesn't push those same theories over actual facts.

Yeah, Obama's election really was the end of a naive era for DW and I. We suddenly had family and friends saying some really ugly things that we'd never heard them say before. Mostly about liberals in general. Occasionally we'd hear something almost racist but more often sexist. Definitely heard that Obama and Hillary were the worst people ever for "reasons" that were often incoherent or vague.

Frankly its been a tough time listening to family we once looked up to and respected say just plain idiotic things. We had to cut a few friends loose over the years b/c they went off the rails and there was little chance of saving them from this alternative universe they had fallen into. 

I'd love to see America whole again. We'll never live up to the USA hype we've been fed over the years but at least people would be civil and perhaps base their beliefs on more facts and less fiction. 

I've witnessed two conversations already this work week where people were talking with their brain turned off. One tried to reinforce his position with UFO evidence. Just look it up he said... The other was sharing how the capitol insurrection was actually ANTIFA. Really? That one is already a tired story.

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4518
  • Age: 125
  • Location: Just past the red barn on the left.
  • Here to learn.
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6947 on: January 12, 2021, 10:10:34 AM »
Have you heard the audio of the voicemail he left Tuberville? It's fucking creepy in its single-mindedness and tone. "Just delay it. Just object to every state."

Which leads me to ask - what good does a delay do? Is this just drama for the 24 hr news cycle or is there a judge somewhere trying to make up his mind about whether to favor Trump during all this?

I hope this wrecks a bunch of Republican careers and puts a few at the top into jail. Trump, Guilliani, etc.

Glenstache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2854
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6948 on: January 12, 2021, 10:33:36 AM »
Have you heard the audio of the voicemail he left Tuberville? It's fucking creepy in its single-mindedness and tone. "Just delay it. Just object to every state."

Which leads me to ask - what good does a delay do? Is this just drama for the 24 hr news cycle or is there a judge somewhere trying to make up his mind about whether to favor Trump during all this?

I hope this wrecks a bunch of Republican careers and puts a few at the top into jail. Trump, Guilliani, etc.

There are only two general options that I see:
1) Desperate grabbing at straws. Hoping that a miracle will present itself if given just a bit more time and the certification is delayed.
2) An actual conspiracy that depended on subverting the certification.

If 2, that needs to be rooted out and made an example of. America has a troubling history of support for "strong" leaders who support mostly the "order" part and not so much the "law" part. A lot of that has an overlap with established social structures and needing to be able to blame another group for problems. There is a lot of structural racism in that. I've been listening to the Slow Burn deep dives into the Nixon impeachment and also the season on David Duke. The patterns that emerge about public opinion and like for someone who will say what the public cannot say in polite company is apparent. The broad dismissal of the Capitol riots and specifically the whataboutism of saying "oh, but this was okay form BLM?" is entirely consistent with this thread in American society. The Capitol riots are just a symptom of a much more difficult to address undercurrent that poses some real threats to our society.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 14207
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6949 on: January 12, 2021, 10:50:42 AM »
As more information comes to light, the attack on the Capitol looks worse and worse
  • An FBI report warned this might happen
  • Three congressmen have tested positive after sheltering in place
  • Video continues to surface showing just how violent these people were (e.g. chanting "Hang Mike Pence" and dragging an officer down a flight of stairs)
  • Over a dozen officers are on temporary suspension pending review
  • Now ex-Capitol Police chief called for the national guard six times that day

Trump's always responded to an unfavorable news cycle by doing something outlandish to grab hold of the media.