Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 500957 times)

dividendman

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6650 on: January 07, 2021, 10:11:56 PM »
Not sure if posted yet, but a police officer has been taken off life support. Now it's 5 people dead I'm aware of.

We all understand the negative connotation associated with the word terrorist, which is precisely why I used it.

TBD: NPR reporting that this is not correct.
https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/07/954333542/four-dead-police-injured-dozens-arrested-after-siege-at-the-u-s-capitol

Looks like police officer Brian D. Sicknick https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/capitol-police-officer-has-died-after-clashing-pro-trump-mob-n1253396 was killed by the terrorists.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6651 on: January 07, 2021, 10:16:42 PM »
Not sure if posted yet, but a police officer has been taken off life support. Now it's 5 people dead I'm aware of.

We all understand the negative connotation associated with the word terrorist, which is precisely why I used it.

TBD: NPR reporting that this is not correct.
https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/07/954333542/four-dead-police-injured-dozens-arrested-after-siege-at-the-u-s-capitol

Looks like police officer Brian D. Sicknick https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/capitol-police-officer-has-died-after-clashing-pro-trump-mob-n1253396 was killed by the terrorists.


Gah, the NBC report is just a few minutes after the NPR retraction - its like Tanya Roberts all over again. Have we moved onto Zombies?!

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6652 on: January 07, 2021, 10:17:17 PM »
So there's talk of impeachment, 25th amendment, etc.

If that happens, wouldn't Pence just pardon Trump once he assumes power?

Wouldn't it be a smarter strategy for the Dems to sit tight until January 20 and then go at Trump afterwards?

Does a pardon apply to all currently-outstanding federal charges, or does it wipe the slate clean so no new charges can be made for anything committed pre-pardon? If no charges have been laid yet, does a pardon simply end the investigations?

Donnie Jr could be in trouble as well given his behaviour.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6653 on: January 07, 2021, 10:20:01 PM »
So there's talk of impeachment, 25th amendment, etc.

If that happens, wouldn't Pence just pardon Trump once he assumes power?

Wouldn't it be a smarter strategy for the Dems to sit tight until January 20 and then go at Trump afterwards?

Does a pardon apply to all currently-outstanding federal charges, or does it wipe the slate clean so no new charges can be made for anything committed pre-pardon? If no charges have been laid yet, does a pardon simply end the investigations?

Donnie Jr could be in trouble as well given his behaviour.

The point of removing Trump is to keep him from doing more damage in the next few days. Even with a pardon, it would be more punishment than he has ever received for his heinous actions.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6654 on: January 07, 2021, 10:30:53 PM »

Quote
According to the Capitol Police statement, Sicknick was responding to the riots on Wednesday, January 6, 2021, at the U.S. Capitol while on duty and was injured during a physical altercation with members of the mob of Trump supporters who stormed the building. “He returned to the division office and collapsed,” the department said. “He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries.”

Although it has been reported Sicknick was hit on the head with a fire extinguisher, according to The New York Times it’s not yet clear what caused his death.

https://heavy.com/news/brian-sicknick/

Dollar Slice

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6655 on: January 07, 2021, 10:53:04 PM »
If that happens, wouldn't Pence just pardon Trump once he assumes power?

Pence might not be feeling all that generous. Trump just told a crowd of thousands of his pet nutjobs that Pence was the one they had to convince to throw the vote in his favor, so they built a gallows outside the building where Pence was and stormed it while shouting "Hang Mike Pence!"

Pence is a pretty strange guy, but pardoning someone for sending a mob of lunatics to kill you has got to give you at least a moment's pause. He reportedly has not been answering his phone and has not talked to the president at all.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6656 on: January 07, 2021, 10:57:27 PM »
If that happens, wouldn't Pence just pardon Trump once he assumes power?

Pence might not be feeling all that generous. Trump just told a crowd of thousands of his pet nutjobs that Pence was the one they had to convince to throw the vote in his favor, so they built a gallows outside the building where Pence was and stormed it while shouting "Hang Mike Pence!"

Pence is a pretty strange guy, but pardoning someone for sending a mob of lunatics to kill you has got to give you at least a moment's pause. He reportedly has not been answering his phone and has not talked to the president at all.

It doesn't sound like he has talked to anyone at all since he walked off the Senate floor early this morning. He has to be pretty shook up. I would feel sorry for him if he hadn't spent the last four and half years pandering to his tormentor, knowing that the guy was going to throw him under the bus at some point.

dandarc

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6657 on: January 07, 2021, 10:57:42 PM »
terrorist cop-killers now. These people that haven't been arrested yet may want to stay in hiding forever.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6658 on: January 08, 2021, 12:16:58 AM »
How many of these people have persistently refused to wear masks for the last year, including on January 6? Seems that's going to come back to bite them.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6659 on: January 08, 2021, 12:45:50 AM »
If that happens, wouldn't Pence just pardon Trump once he assumes power?

Pence might not be feeling all that generous. Trump just told a crowd of thousands of his pet nutjobs that Pence was the one they had to convince to throw the vote in his favor, so they built a gallows outside the building where Pence was and stormed it while shouting "Hang Mike Pence!"

Pence is a pretty strange guy, but pardoning someone for sending a mob of lunatics to kill you has got to give you at least a moment's pause. He reportedly has not been answering his phone and has not talked to the president at all.

It doesn't sound like he has talked to anyone at all since he walked off the Senate floor early this morning. He has to be pretty shook up. I would feel sorry for him if he hadn't spent the last four and half years pandering to his tormentor, knowing that the guy was going to throw him under the bus at some point.

Don't feel sorry at all. Anybody who has been paying attention ought to realize that all of Trump's relationships are transactional. There is no such thing as loyalty in his mind. You're a resource to be exploited until you're no longer useful, and anything less than sycophancy is grounds for dismissal.

marty998

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6660 on: January 08, 2021, 03:55:48 AM »
If that happens, wouldn't Pence just pardon Trump once he assumes power?

Pence might not be feeling all that generous. Trump just told a crowd of thousands of his pet nutjobs that Pence was the one they had to convince to throw the vote in his favor, so they built a gallows outside the building where Pence was and stormed it while shouting "Hang Mike Pence!"

Pence is a pretty strange guy, but pardoning someone for sending a mob of lunatics to kill you has got to give you at least a moment's pause. He reportedly has not been answering his phone and has not talked to the president at all.

History has a long, if sometimes foggy memory. Pence is considering how his actions over the next week will be remembered for centuries to come.

I'll bet the last thing he wants is to knife the messiah and take the Presidency right now in the middle of this shitshow. The target on his back from the Trumpists isn't going to get smaller if he does that. They'll be after him for the rest of his life.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6661 on: January 08, 2021, 04:24:19 AM »
If that happens, wouldn't Pence just pardon Trump once he assumes power?

Pence might not be feeling all that generous. Trump just told a crowd of thousands of his pet nutjobs that Pence was the one they had to convince to throw the vote in his favor, so they built a gallows outside the building where Pence was and stormed it while shouting "Hang Mike Pence!"

Pence is a pretty strange guy, but pardoning someone for sending a mob of lunatics to kill you has got to give you at least a moment's pause. He reportedly has not been answering his phone and has not talked to the president at all.

It doesn't sound like he has talked to anyone at all since he walked off the Senate floor early this morning. He has to be pretty shook up. I would feel sorry for him if he hadn't spent the last four and half years pandering to his tormentor, knowing that the guy was going to throw him under the bus at some point.

Don't feel sorry at all. Anybody who has been paying attention ought to realize that all of Trump's relationships are transactional. There is no such thing as loyalty in his mind. You're a resource to be exploited until you're no longer useful, and anything less than sycophancy is grounds for dismissal.

Yep. Anyone who chooses to interact with him has made this deal. This was evident 30 years ago when his first divorce was all over the news. It has been evident in all of his failed business deals and broken contracts. I have no sympathy for anyone who threw in their lot with him and is now facing the consequences. They knew who and what he was. We all did.

My sympathy is reserved solely for Trump's teenaged son. That young man will have to live under his father's treasonous legacy, and he certainly didn't choose any of this.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6662 on: January 08, 2021, 04:34:43 AM »
The shooting was unjustified.   I also notice there's an extreme bias in the media about this.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/mainstream-lawlessness-trump-dc-riots-inexcusable-unrest-police

The media went out of its way in 2020 to paint sometimes-violent protests across the nation as mostly "peaceful," but finally came around on Wednesday to the notion that mayhem and anarchy is always unacceptable – all it took was Trump supporters causing the chaos to spark a swift change of heart.

Anyway, glad Trump's days in office are dwindling.

90% of shootings in the US are unjustified. This is not one of them. Mostly because it was the last line of defense and if the security had not shot, the rest of the rioters would have followed, outnumbering the security personal in a close area. Or in other words: There would have been either a mass shooting or the breach of defense.

Not to mention, this was about the most predictable there is where the person did not fire first. If you try to climb over a barricade where people with drawn weapons are protecting someone important - it would be a surprise if they don't shoot even in Bhutan.


Trump's apology was a little scattershot to say the least.

Am I the only one annoyed by journalists' editorialising of Trump pieces? This is from The Guardian's blog:

Quote
More than 24 hours after he incited a violent mob to attack the US Capitol in support of his unconstitutional efforts to overturn the presidential election, Donald Trump finally conceded that “a new administration will be inaugurated on January 20” and promised a “smooth, orderly and seamless” transfer of power.

The video statement was posted on Twitter, one of the only social media platforms to which the president still has access following his unprecedented and egregious encouragement of rioters bent on insurrection.

None of the bolded should have been written.

As much as Trump's actions are deplorable, and as much as the bolded segments are well-justified comments, they are still comments.

News reporting should avoid personal commentary. It is a matter of self-restraint and intellectual honesty.
While this is certainly with a bit of POV, it also certainly is an objective description. Even the "finally" - was there ever a president before that took that long in a clear case?

If you take out the POV completely, you end up with "People entered the capitol while being ordered not to do it. They destroyed property. One was shot."
It's an accurate description, but it does not tell you what happened, what it was about.

Quote
Pence is considering how his actions over the next week will be remembered for centuries to come.

I'll bet the last thing he wants is to knife the messiah and take the Presidency right now in the middle of this shitshow. The target on his back from the Trumpists isn't going to get smaller if he does that. They'll be after him for the rest of his life.
Damn, I wanted to end this with some famous poetry, but the english translations garble it up too much, so take my translation:

Die ich rief, die Geister
werd ich nun nicht los

The spirits that I called
I cannot shake me free.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6663 on: January 08, 2021, 04:39:28 AM »
Whatever happens to Trump's presidency by January 20 will happen, but sadly the people involved in this attack and their supporters aren't going away anytime soon.

How does America prevent such political violence from happening again?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 05:06:56 AM by alsoknownasDean »

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6664 on: January 08, 2021, 05:11:59 AM »
Quote
If you take out the POV completely, you end up with "People entered the capitol while being ordered not to do it. They destroyed property. One was shot."
It's an accurate description, but it does not tell you what happened, what it was about.

You could simply write - without excessive editorialising:

Hundreds of protestors, some armed with what were later found to be IEDs and others carrying backpacks with unknown contents, overcame police by sheer numbers and entered the nation's Capitol. The protestors had earlier set up camp on the mall. Some of them had erected a gallows. They later were heard shouting for Mike Pence to be found and brought before them.

In an interior corridor, a stand-off arose between protestors - who were captured on video footage chanting slogans echoing President Trump's own incitements from days earlier - and Capitol police, the latter armed with pistols and carbines. One woman attempted to climb through a window and was shot, once. In the haphazard scenes that followed, no other shots were fired and police were seen tending to the stricken woman.


I'm no journalism major so maybe my writing is clunky and not up to the exemplary standards of Guardian journalism (hahaha) but I would prefer more description and facts and less commentary. The above description only took a couple of minutes for me to cobble together from pictures and videos so I'm sure the Guardian blogger could have tried a little harder to provide some colour and movement from facts.

You want to convey that the mob was violent and frenetic? Paint the picture with words.

You want to convey Trump's dawdling and deep hypocrisy? Excerpt his speeches!

It ain't hard. Show, don't tell. I'm not a professional writer and have no formal training in writing - but I reckon I could do a better job than some of these journos.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6665 on: January 08, 2021, 05:36:19 AM »
Trump outrage today: Trump has conceded and is calling for healing and unity.

At first I ignored this because I assumed it was sarcasm

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/president-trump-concedes-condemns-supporters-rioted-75122489

It has the air of one of those videos that hostages are sometimes forced to make by their captors. I wonder who wrote the words for him.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6666 on: January 08, 2021, 06:02:16 AM »
Quote
If you take out the POV completely, you end up with "People entered the capitol while being ordered not to do it. They destroyed property. One was shot."
It's an accurate description, but it does not tell you what happened, what it was about.

You could simply write - without excessive editorialising:

Hundreds of protestors, some armed with what were later found to be IEDs and others carrying backpacks with unknown contents, overcame police by sheer numbers and entered the nation's Capitol. The protestors had earlier set up camp on the mall. Some of them had erected a gallows. They later were heard shouting for Mike Pence to be found and brought before them.

In an interior corridor, a stand-off arose between protestors - who were captured on video footage chanting slogans echoing President Trump's own incitements from days earlier - and Capitol police, the latter armed with pistols and carbines. One woman attempted to climb through a window and was shot, once. In the haphazard scenes that followed, no other shots were fired and police were seen tending to the stricken woman.


I'm no journalism major so maybe my writing is clunky and not up to the exemplary standards of Guardian journalism (hahaha) but I would prefer more description and facts and less commentary. The above description only took a couple of minutes for me to cobble together from pictures and videos so I'm sure the Guardian blogger could have tried a little harder to provide some colour and movement from facts.

You want to convey that the mob was violent and frenetic? Paint the picture with words.

You want to convey Trump's dawdling and deep hypocrisy? Excerpt his speeches!

It ain't hard. Show, don't tell. I'm not a professional writer and have no formal training in writing - but I reckon I could do a better job than some of these journos.

You said yourself that it was a blog, which is usually maintained by a news org to keep on top of breaking news in real time. The standards for that sort of writing and formal journalism are different. That seems obvious to me, at least, as a professional editor who does have to apply different styles and standards to different types of writing intended for different purposes.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6667 on: January 08, 2021, 07:01:25 AM »
Quote
If you take out the POV completely, you end up with "People entered the capitol while being ordered not to do it. They destroyed property. One was shot."
It's an accurate description, but it does not tell you what happened, what it was about.

You could simply write - without excessive editorialising:

Hundreds of protestors, some armed with what were later found to be IEDs and others carrying backpacks with unknown contents, overcame police by sheer numbers and entered the nation's Capitol. The protestors had earlier set up camp on the mall. Some of them had erected a gallows. They later were heard shouting for Mike Pence to be found and brought before them.

In an interior corridor, a stand-off arose between protestors - who were captured on video footage chanting slogans echoing President Trump's own incitements from days earlier - and Capitol police, the latter armed with pistols and carbines. One woman attempted to climb through a window and was shot, once. In the haphazard scenes that followed, no other shots were fired and police were seen tending to the stricken woman.


I'm no journalism major so maybe my writing is clunky and not up to the exemplary standards of Guardian journalism (hahaha) but I would prefer more description and facts and less commentary. The above description only took a couple of minutes for me to cobble together from pictures and videos so I'm sure the Guardian blogger could have tried a little harder to provide some colour and movement from facts.

You want to convey that the mob was violent and frenetic? Paint the picture with words.

You want to convey Trump's dawdling and deep hypocrisy? Excerpt his speeches!

It ain't hard. Show, don't tell. I'm not a professional writer and have no formal training in writing - but I reckon I could do a better job than some of these journos.

Interesting how your police are armed, but no mention of the rioters being armed with lead pipes and tear gas... evidently I misread the first time...need more sleep
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 07:36:54 AM by ixtap »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6668 on: January 08, 2021, 07:11:16 AM »
Quote
If you take out the POV completely, you end up with "People entered the capitol while being ordered not to do it. They destroyed property. One was shot."
It's an accurate description, but it does not tell you what happened, what it was about.

You could simply write - without excessive editorialising:

Hundreds of protestors, some armed with what were later found to be IEDs and others carrying backpacks with unknown contents, overcame police by sheer numbers and entered the nation's Capitol. The protestors had earlier set up camp on the mall. Some of them had erected a gallows. They later were heard shouting for Mike Pence to be found and brought before them.

In an interior corridor, a stand-off arose between protestors - who were captured on video footage chanting slogans echoing President Trump's own incitements from days earlier - and Capitol police, the latter armed with pistols and carbines. One woman attempted to climb through a window and was shot, once. In the haphazard scenes that followed, no other shots were fired and police were seen tending to the stricken woman.


I'm no journalism major so maybe my writing is clunky and not up to the exemplary standards of Guardian journalism (hahaha) but I would prefer more description and facts and less commentary. The above description only took a couple of minutes for me to cobble together from pictures and videos so I'm sure the Guardian blogger could have tried a little harder to provide some colour and movement from facts.

You want to convey that the mob was violent and frenetic? Paint the picture with words.

You want to convey Trump's dawdling and deep hypocrisy? Excerpt his speeches!

It ain't hard. Show, don't tell. I'm not a professional writer and have no formal training in writing - but I reckon I could do a better job than some of these journos.

Interesting how your police are armed, but no mention of the rioters being armed with lead pipes and tear gas...

And guns.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6669 on: January 08, 2021, 07:27:24 AM »
Quote
If you take out the POV completely, you end up with "People entered the capitol while being ordered not to do it. They destroyed property. One was shot."
It's an accurate description, but it does not tell you what happened, what it was about.

You could simply write - without excessive editorialising:

Hundreds of protestors, some armed with what were later found to be IEDs and others carrying backpacks with unknown contents, overcame police by sheer numbers and entered the nation's Capitol. The protestors had earlier set up camp on the mall. Some of them had erected a gallows. They later were heard shouting for Mike Pence to be found and brought before them.

In an interior corridor, a stand-off arose between protestors - who were captured on video footage chanting slogans echoing President Trump's own incitements from days earlier - and Capitol police, the latter armed with pistols and carbines. One woman attempted to climb through a window and was shot, once. In the haphazard scenes that followed, no other shots were fired and police were seen tending to the stricken woman.


I'm no journalism major so maybe my writing is clunky and not up to the exemplary standards of Guardian journalism (hahaha) but I would prefer more description and facts and less commentary. The above description only took a couple of minutes for me to cobble together from pictures and videos so I'm sure the Guardian blogger could have tried a little harder to provide some colour and movement from facts.

You want to convey that the mob was violent and frenetic? Paint the picture with words.

You want to convey Trump's dawdling and deep hypocrisy? Excerpt his speeches!

It ain't hard. Show, don't tell. I'm not a professional writer and have no formal training in writing - but I reckon I could do a better job than some of these journos.

Interesting how your police are armed, but no mention of the rioters being armed with lead pipes and tear gas...

And guns.

And molotov cocktails

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6670 on: January 08, 2021, 07:31:34 AM »
Whatever happens to Trump's presidency by January 20 will happen, but sadly the people involved in this attack and their supporters aren't going away anytime soon.

How does America prevent such political violence from happening again?

I rarely think violence is the answer, but it is in this case.  The punishment for a failed coup or a failed revolution should be having your head cut off.  Not figuratively, but literally. The fact that the GOP is so inept and incompetent shouldn't be an excuse for leniency.  Trump obviously, but all his top level sycophants that stood by an enabled him as well.  I realize that is a bit extreme, but so is this situation, and this isn't a situation that just accidentally happened.

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6671 on: January 08, 2021, 07:38:31 AM »
Quote
You said yourself that it was a blog, which is usually maintained by a news org to keep on top of breaking news in real time. The standards for that sort of writing and formal journalism are different. That seems obvious to me, at least, as a professional editor who does have to apply different styles and standards to different types of writing intended for different purposes.

It wasn't in real time as such as the video had been produced some hours ago, before the blog post. In any event, if I as a layperson can scrounge up those two paragraphs in literally 3 minutes (plus 2-3 minutes of viewing footage and photos), I would expect a paid blogger to do rather a better / higher standard job. No?

Typos might pop up from place to place on a blog and the facts might not be 100% checkable - like how I egregiously missed out on lead pipes, molotov cocktails etc - but I still expect basic journalistic integrity, and a knowledge of "show, don't tell".

BussoV6

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6672 on: January 08, 2021, 07:52:22 AM »
Why did the Arizonan riot leader wearing horns and fur have a big black dick tattooed on the side of his stomach?

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6673 on: January 08, 2021, 07:55:29 AM »
Why did the Arizonan riot leader wearing horns and fur have a big black dick tattooed on the side of his stomach?

He's a shaman, ok? You wouldn't understand.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6674 on: January 08, 2021, 07:56:58 AM »
Early this morning, as I slipped from the grip of Morpheus, I think I heard that Trump revoked Pence's security pass which allows him entry to the White House, another of many  instances of Trump's  obtuseness regarding the fact that high officials take an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not one of  fealty to him.

Trump is an odious   man-child whose   self-centered petulance knows no bounds.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6675 on: January 08, 2021, 08:00:45 AM »
I think Pence finally (yes, I'm using that word for emphasis) understands the Faustian bargain he made to gain this national audience. One reaps what one sows.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 09:24:16 AM by OtherJen »

MudPuppy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6676 on: January 08, 2021, 08:01:13 AM »
Why did the Arizonan riot leader wearing horns and fur have a big black dick tattooed on the side of his stomach?

He's a shaman, ok? You wouldn't understand.

He’s looking for that BDE

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6677 on: January 08, 2021, 08:23:11 AM »
Early this morning, as I slipped from the grip of Morpheus, I think I heard that Trump revoked Pence's security pass which allows him entry to the White House, another of many  instances of Trump's  obtuseness regarding the fact that high officials take an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not one of  fealty to him.

Trump is an odious   man-child whose   self-centered petulance knows no bounds.

He barred Pence's chief of staff from the White House.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6678 on: January 08, 2021, 08:26:10 AM »
Trump outrage today: Trump has conceded and is calling for healing and unity.

At first I ignored this because I assumed it was sarcasm

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/president-trump-concedes-condemns-supporters-rioted-75122489

It has the air of one of those videos that hostages are sometimes forced to make by their captors. I wonder who wrote the words for him.

Trump has a particular cadence to his speeches and stops to make specific facial and hand gestures. Did this speech strike anyone as odd in that regard? I kept wondering if he was suffering from some kind of palsy. He had to tilt his head like an owl to get some of the words out.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6679 on: January 08, 2021, 08:31:23 AM »
It has the air of one of those videos that hostages are sometimes forced to make by their captors. I wonder who wrote the words for him.

Trump has a particular cadence to his speeches and stops to make specific facial and hand gestures. Did this speech strike anyone as odd in that regard? I kept wondering if he was suffering from some kind of palsy. He had to tilt his head like an owl to get some of the words out.

It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6680 on: January 08, 2021, 08:40:26 AM »
Quote
You said yourself that it was a blog, which is usually maintained by a news org to keep on top of breaking news in real time. The standards for that sort of writing and formal journalism are different. That seems obvious to me, at least, as a professional editor who does have to apply different styles and standards to different types of writing intended for different purposes.

It wasn't in real time as such as the video had been produced some hours ago, before the blog post. In any event, if I as a layperson can scrounge up those two paragraphs in literally 3 minutes (plus 2-3 minutes of viewing footage and photos), I would expect a paid blogger to do rather a better / higher standard job. No?

Typos might pop up from place to place on a blog and the facts might not be 100% checkable - like how I egregiously missed out on lead pipes, molotov cocktails etc - but I still expect basic journalistic integrity, and a knowledge of "show, don't tell".

You claim to expect basic journalistic integrity and your example of a breach of said integrity is describing a scene where five people were killed as a "violent mob" instead of just a "mob", yet you yourself left out the fact they had molotovs when you wrote your example.

The irony is truly spectacular.

EvenSteven

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6681 on: January 08, 2021, 08:46:32 AM »
Quote
You said yourself that it was a blog, which is usually maintained by a news org to keep on top of breaking news in real time. The standards for that sort of writing and formal journalism are different. That seems obvious to me, at least, as a professional editor who does have to apply different styles and standards to different types of writing intended for different purposes.

It wasn't in real time as such as the video had been produced some hours ago, before the blog post. In any event, if I as a layperson can scrounge up those two paragraphs in literally 3 minutes (plus 2-3 minutes of viewing footage and photos), I would expect a paid blogger to do rather a better / higher standard job. No?

Typos might pop up from place to place on a blog and the facts might not be 100% checkable - like how I egregiously missed out on lead pipes, molotov cocktails etc - but I still expect basic journalistic integrity, and a knowledge of "show, don't tell".

You claim to expect basic journalistic integrity and your example of a breach of said integrity is describing a scene where five people were killed as a "violent mob" instead of just a "mob", yet you yourself left out the fact they had molotovs when you wrote your example.

The irony is truly spectacular.

I think it is fitting. All these people ever really wanted was ethics in gaming journalism.

turketron

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6682 on: January 08, 2021, 08:46:57 AM »
It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.
Yeah, it looked like a hostage video with someone just off-camera with a (metaphorical) gun to his head.

Omy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6683 on: January 08, 2021, 09:08:37 AM »
It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.
Yeah, it looked like a hostage video with someone just off-camera with a (metaphorical) gun to his head.

It almost looks like a deep fake. Or it was badly edited. Or badly edited to make it look like a deep fake so his supporters could call it out as fake? Random speculation...I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6684 on: January 08, 2021, 09:10:34 AM »
It has the air of one of those videos that hostages are sometimes forced to make by their captors. I wonder who wrote the words for him.

Trump has a particular cadence to his speeches and stops to make specific facial and hand gestures. Did this speech strike anyone as odd in that regard? I kept wondering if he was suffering from some kind of palsy. He had to tilt his head like an owl to get some of the words out.

It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.

This. He may finally (again! It’s a useful word in this context!) realize that he has stepped over the line of what even his yes-men will condone. As someone whose entire adult life has been enabled by yes-men, I’m sure that was frightening enough to get him to comply.

But they still didn’t trust him to read it live.

(Edit: anyone else notice the cut to a different angle after the line about the election results being certified? Did they splice in the bit about the smooth, orderly, and seamless transition in place of yet another election fraud rant, or was someone getting creative with the camera angle? It is odd.)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 09:15:50 AM by OtherJen »

ender

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6685 on: January 08, 2021, 09:19:20 AM »
It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.
Yeah, it looked like a hostage video with someone just off-camera with a (metaphorical) gun to his head.

It almost looks like a deep fake. Or it was badly edited. Or badly edited to make it look like a deep fake so his supporters could call it out as fake? Random speculation...I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory.

A deep fake posted to his twitter though?

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6686 on: January 08, 2021, 09:24:38 AM »
It almost looks like a deep fake. Or it was badly edited. Or badly edited to make it look like a deep fake so his supporters could call it out as fake? Random speculation...I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory.

A deep fake posted to his twitter though?

Don't underestimate how stupid these people are. I've already seem Trumpers claim it was a deep-fake. Also it's apparently important that he said "peaceful transition to a new administration" not to a new president because clearly he's going to replace Pence as his VP with someone who's more patriotic and after he releases the Krakken he will still be in power, so obviously he's not conceding. I'm not making any of this up.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6687 on: January 08, 2021, 09:47:26 AM »
It has the air of one of those videos that hostages are sometimes forced to make by their captors. I wonder who wrote the words for him.

Trump has a particular cadence to his speeches and stops to make specific facial and hand gestures. Did this speech strike anyone as odd in that regard? I kept wondering if he was suffering from some kind of palsy. He had to tilt his head like an owl to get some of the words out.

It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.

This. He may finally (again! It’s a useful word in this context!) realize that he has stepped over the line of what even his yes-men will condone. As someone whose entire adult life has been enabled by yes-men, I’m sure that was frightening enough to get him to comply.

But they still didn’t trust him to read it live.

(Edit: anyone else notice the cut to a different angle after the line about the election results being certified? Did they splice in the bit about the smooth, orderly, and seamless transition in place of yet another election fraud rant, or was someone getting creative with the camera angle? It is odd.)

Yep, I thought that, too. They couldn't get him not to go off script in one take, so they took a couple takes and edited it to remove the insane part(s).

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6688 on: January 08, 2021, 09:50:34 AM »
So I guess he announced he's not attending the inauguration. What a cry baby. Anyway, I've already seen several statements (speculation?) that it's either a signal to or because he knows that his followers will again commit atrocities. I assume everyone will be better prepared on Jan 20 then they chose to be on Jan 6.


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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6690 on: January 08, 2021, 09:58:50 AM »
So I guess he announced he's not attending the inauguration. What a cry baby. Anyway, I've already seen several statements (speculation?) that it's either a signal to or because he knows that his followers will again commit atrocities. I assume everyone will be better prepared on Jan 20 then they chose to be on Jan 6.

His cult followers are already planning for another "event" on the 19th, from what I've read.

He is such a spoiled brat. And after the Obamas were far more gracious to him than he deserved at his own inauguration. He really does make himself look worse and worse each day.

dividendman

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6691 on: January 08, 2021, 10:00:25 AM »
My (re)FIRE date is approaching in a few weeks and Trump still has a couple of weeks.... this feels like the longest few weeks of my life.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6692 on: January 08, 2021, 10:10:22 AM »
I don't understand what the hold up on the impeachment is.  They should have began impeachment vote at 4AM when they finally concluded the count.  Failing that, why aren't they impeaching him right now? What is more important than impeaching him this very minute?

dividendman

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6693 on: January 08, 2021, 10:19:49 AM »
I don't understand what the hold up on the impeachment is.  They should have began impeachment vote at 4AM when they finally concluded the count.  Failing that, why aren't they impeaching him right now? What is more important than impeaching him this very minute?

While I think they should, I'm sure the political reality of not having 67 senators in favor is still there. Also, with a Senate trial that will take days, especially if republicans want to grandstand, there may not even be a vote by the time Trump's term is up.

The 25th amendment is instantaneous, but I don't think Pence will do that either.

I think the US attorney's and state attorney's are the best people to handle Trump in the coming weeks.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6694 on: January 08, 2021, 10:29:29 AM »
Whatever happens to Trump's presidency by January 20 will happen, but sadly the people involved in this attack and their supporters aren't going away anytime soon.

How does America prevent such political violence from happening again?

I rarely think violence is the answer, but it is in this case.  The punishment for a failed coup or a failed revolution should be having your head cut off.  Not figuratively, but literally. The fact that the GOP is so inept and incompetent shouldn't be an excuse for leniency.  Trump obviously, but all his top level sycophants that stood by an enabled him as well.  I realize that is a bit extreme, but so is this situation, and this isn't a situation that just accidentally happened.

A bit extreme....um....no.....just no. Everything about what happened at DC was horrific. Support jail time for Trump, for the people who rioted in DC, etc. fine. Support that the woman who was killed by authorities who was in the act of trying to break in is justified homicide, sure. But no, asinine statements about beheadings should not be made. To support this for sure but even to say it in jest (if that is what it was) is only a good thing if your goal is the further collapse of our country.

dignam

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6695 on: January 08, 2021, 10:32:25 AM »
I don't understand what the hold up on the impeachment is.  They should have began impeachment vote at 4AM when they finally concluded the count.  Failing that, why aren't they impeaching him right now? What is more important than impeaching him this very minute?

There is the threat that doing this could cause even more unrest.  Don't get me wrong I would love to see that or the 25th evoked, but I'm not sure if that's what is best considering his days are numbered.

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6696 on: January 08, 2021, 10:34:28 AM »
I don't understand what the hold up on the impeachment is.  They should have began impeachment vote at 4AM when they finally concluded the count.  Failing that, why aren't they impeaching him right now? What is more important than impeaching him this very minute?

While I think they should, I'm sure the political reality of not having 67 senators in favor is still there. Also, with a Senate trial that will take days, especially if republicans want to grandstand, there may not even be a vote by the time Trump's term is up.

The 25th amendment is instantaneous, but I don't think Pence will do that either.

I think the US attorney's and state attorney's are the best people to handle Trump in the coming weeks.

George Conway just tweeted something about having 67 votes to convict. I don't follow him closely, but I was not under the impression that he throws out blatantly false or exaggerated statements like this. Still, I have a hard time believing it is even possibly true.

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6697 on: January 08, 2021, 10:35:12 AM »
https://theweek.com/speedreads/959671/maryland-governor-said-repeatedly-denied-authorization-send-national-guard-dc

Quote
Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R) said Thursday that after receiving a request for help from the District of Columbia on Wednesday, he immediately mobilized the state police and National Guard, but was repeatedly denied authorization to deploy.

Hogan explained that while on a video conference call with Japan's ambassador, his chief of staff interrupted to tell him "the U.S. Capitol was under attack." He organized an emergency meeting to mobilize the police and Maryland National Guard, he said, and during the meeting, Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), the No. 2 House Democrat, called from "an undisclosed bunker" to tell Hogan that Capitol Police were "overwhelmed" by the pro-Trump mob storming the Capitol.

Hoyer was "pleading with us" to send the National Guard, Hogan said, and he had to tell him authorization had not yet come through. About 90 minutes later, Secretary of the Army Ryan McCarthy called Hogan to ask, "Can you come as soon as possible?" The governor responded, "Yeah, we've been waiting. We're ready."

"I can't tell you what was going on on the other end, on the decision-making process," Hogan said. "There's been lots of speculation in the media about that, but I'm not privy to what was going on inside the White House or inside the Pentagon." There are 500 Maryland National Guard members on standby outside of D.C., Hogan said, and he wants to "assure all Americans that the state of Maryland will do anything and everything we possibly can to continue to secure the core of our nation's capital and to ensure the peaceful transition of power."

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6698 on: January 08, 2021, 10:57:30 AM »
I - personally - don't feel any outrage for Trump in my guts. I guess there must be some sort of max capacity for outrage on a specific topic/subject/individual that I must have crossed many years ago w.r.t. Trump.

I am, however, saddened about the depravity of Trump's enablers.

Tucker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=721Ja6aOYSo
Sounds really nice till about the 3 minute mark, and then he let's slip his casual racism when he goes on about how that Babbit girl "did not look particularly radical" like the other protesters who were "annihilistic.... wrecking our cities". He can't let go of his racism even in a "we need to fix it" video when the democracy is under attack.

Glenn Beck did something similar on this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8VC0e60wd8
I don't have the patience to listen to it again, but basically he launched into some whataboutism after sounding very sincere for a few minutes.

If anyone hoped for a quick healing, y'all are in for a nasty surprise. Prepare for a long haul of the rightwing ideologues claiming their casual racism and worse is the true "American Way"!


« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 10:59:47 AM by ctuser1 »

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6699 on: January 08, 2021, 11:00:14 AM »
George Conway just tweeted something about having 67 votes to convict. I don't follow him closely, but I was not under the impression that he throws out blatantly false or exaggerated statements like this. Still, I have a hard time believing it is even possibly true.

I don't. Trump just incited a riot that directly threatened their lives. These are real people we're talking about, even the Trumpiest of them can't be too happy about that. And it was a direct attempt to take away their power. From a soon-to-be ex-President, who just cost them their Senate majority, who most of them hated openly up until the moment he got the nomination.

I mean, they're still Republican Senators, so right now they're trying to calculate which is more likely: that Trump will continue to control the base of voters they'll need to get reelected, or whether they can successfully be rid of him once and for all and finally regain control of their lives and party. But I wouldn't be surprised if half of them were tempted to try right now.