Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 500960 times)

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6400 on: January 06, 2021, 06:24:52 PM »
The electoral certification will resume tonight. I wonder: 1) if there will be many more objections, and 2) if they will just go ahead and impeach while they are at it.

I just heard that a  member of the House is drafting an article (or articles ?)of impeachment.

Another member said it would take too long to impeach Trump so instead the 25th Amendment should be invoked.

I disagree  that impeachment would take too long.

The House has power to, and could,  impeach Trump within about 2 hours.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 06:53:13 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6401 on: January 06, 2021, 06:26:43 PM »
The electoral certification will resume tonight. I wonder: 1) if there will be many more objections, and 2) if they will just go ahead and impeach while they are at it.

I just heard that a  member of the House is drafting an article (or articles ?)of impeachment.

Another member said it would take too long to impeach Trump so instead the 25th Amendment should be invoked.

I disagree  that impeachment would take too long.

The House has power to impeach Trump within about 2 hours.

https://www.fox9.com/news/rep-ilhan-omar-drawing-up-articles-of-impeachment-for-trump

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6402 on: January 06, 2021, 06:29:01 PM »
In the last three days, Trump has been recorded advocating for election fraud and active insurrection. Can the Congress role right from electoral vote counting to impeachment to trial and removal?  This needs to be over.

I agree he needs to be impeached. This is f-n ridiculous.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6403 on: January 06, 2021, 06:32:17 PM »
It's an interesting day to be a Republican politician. There is so much hand-wringing going on right now. So many of the same people who have been screaming "stop the steal" are now insisting "this isn't us, I didn't know this would happen, we're the party of law and order." Shut the fuck up. This is exactly you. These people have been your base of support for four years. They bully people while waving guns around as a lifestyle choice. They told you they were coming to D.C. to commit violence and insurrection. They spelled out their plans on their websites and have been carrying signs and wearing shirts all week that say "we're here to kill people." Guess what? Someone is now dead. They put the US Congress under siege. One of these assholes ended up sitting in the Vice President's chair.  And the President of the United States egged them on. "Don't be weak." "We'll never surrender." And after the riot was dispersed he said "You're all special." Half the Republicans in Congress committed themselves to disrupting today's count. You fuckers made your bed. Lie in it. That goes double for Pence and McConnell. This is the culmination of four years (eight for McConnell) of tap dancing around their oaths of office. You don't get to make impassioned speeches at the 11th hour and get forgiveness.

edit: considering the people who voted them into office, they could have all doubled-down like Paxton in Texas is doing and said "hell yeah, come back again tomorrow" and they'd be reelected.

THIS. The seditious travesty that happened today is the culmination of the GOP strategy for the last 40 years. Any GOP leader who claims otherwise is a liar.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6404 on: January 06, 2021, 06:35:22 PM »
I also blame Bush's "We believe there are weapons of mass destruction, even though the international inspectors insist there aren't, so that's good enough for us to go to war" I know he played nice today, but he raised the bar on ignoring evidence while he was in office.

American GenX

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6405 on: January 06, 2021, 06:51:37 PM »

The mob reminded me of Antifa, but not as destructive.  Some crazy shit, none-the-less.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6406 on: January 06, 2021, 07:02:39 PM »

The mob reminded me of Antifa, but not as destructive.  Some crazy shit, none-the-less.

Ah yes, that Antifa mob that happened that one time in that one place. I think they destroyed that one thing.... Anyways yeah that happened at some point. I'm sure of it.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6407 on: January 06, 2021, 07:05:54 PM »

The mob reminded me of Antifa, but not as destructive.  Some crazy shit, none-the-less.

Ah yes, that Antifa mob that happened that one time in that one place. I think they destroyed that one thing.... Anyways yeah that happened at some point. I'm sure of it.

I'm sure they were breaking down the Chamber doors just to speak to Congress in a calm and coherent manner.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6408 on: January 06, 2021, 07:10:43 PM »

The mob reminded me of Antifa, but not as destructive.  Some crazy shit, none-the-less.

Not as destructive, except they broke into the center of power in the United States government and attempted to wrest away power from the duly elected representatives in an attempted national coup.

But you know, not that big a deal.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6409 on: January 06, 2021, 07:26:40 PM »

The mob reminded me of Antifa, but not as destructive.  Some crazy shit, none-the-less.

Yeah - local GOP supporter today arguing with associate of mine that today's shit show were clearly antifa acting like GOP supporters. Keep up those group delusions. It shows high quality creative thinking.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 07:28:25 PM by Just Joe »

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6410 on: January 06, 2021, 07:31:18 PM »
The blue states might genuinely be better off seceding/having a civil war.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6411 on: January 06, 2021, 07:44:28 PM »
The blue states might genuinely be better off seceding/having a civil war.

The Constitution is devoid of any provision that allows for a process whereby a State may secede from the United States of America.

And though federalism treats  each State  as a sovereign entity that has broad latitude to manage its affairs  it does not not include any power to secede for the reason that though  "the preservation of the States, and the maintenance of their governments, are as much within the design and care of the Constitution [so] is  the preservation of the Union and the maintenance of the National government."

Thus, secession is unconstitutional:  "The Constitution, in all its provisions, looks to an indestructible Union, composed of indestructible States."



Texas v. White Et Al. (1869)


The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations.


It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form, and character, and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.'


And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.'


 It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?

But the perpetuity and indissolubility of the Union, by no means implies the loss of distinct and individual existence, or of the right of self-government by the States.

 Under the Articles of Confederation each State retained its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right not expressly delegated to the United States.

Under the Constitution, though the powers of the States were much restricted, still, all powers not delegated to the United States, nor prohibited to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

And we have already had occasion to remark at this term, that the people of each State compose a State, having its own government, and endowed with all the functions essential to separate and independent existence, and that 'without the States in union, there could be no such political body as the United States.'

Not only, therefore, can there be no loss of separate and independent autonomy to the States, through their union under the Constitution, but it may be not unreasonably said that the preservation of the States, and the maintenance of their governments, are as much within the design and care of the Constitution as the preservation of the Union and the maintenance of the National government.

 The Constitution, in all its provisions, looks to an indestructible Union, composed of indestructible States.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 07:56:23 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6412 on: January 06, 2021, 07:53:02 PM »
The blue states might genuinely be better off seceding/having a civil war.

The Constitution is devoid of any provision that allows for a process whereby a State may secede from the United States of America.

There wasn't any proceedure for countries to leave the EU before Brexit.  A piece of paper isn't going to stop a state from leaving the union.

A piece of paper on its own does nothing.  It only means something if people decide to do what it says.  70 million Trump voters and QAnon believers think  that piece of paper is useless, because they have been told lies for the last 5 years and believe those lies so strongly that nothing you can say is going' to change their minds.

Imma

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6413 on: January 06, 2021, 08:01:14 PM »
The blue states might genuinely be better off seceding/having a civil war.

The Constitution is devoid of any provision that allows for a process whereby a State may secede from the United States of America.

There wasn't any proceedure for countries to leave the EU before Brexit.  A piece of paper isn't going to stop a state from leaving the union.

A piece of paper on its own does nothing.  It only means something if people decide to do what it says.  70 million Trump voters and QAnon believers think  that piece of paper is useless, because they have been told lies for the last 5 years and believe those lies so strongly that nothing you can say is going' to change their minds.

There was actually, in article 50 of the Treaty on European Union. Just no country had used it before the UK.

Which means that despite the criticism from some people and the level of close cooperation between member states (in some cases stronger than in the case of US states) the EU is not and never can be a federation in the classic sense of the word.


John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6414 on: January 06, 2021, 08:14:23 PM »
The blue states might genuinely be better off seceding/having a civil war.

The Constitution is devoid of any provision that allows for a process whereby a State may secede from the United States of America.

There wasn't any proceedure for countries to leave the EU before Brexit.  A piece of paper isn't going to stop a state from leaving the union.

A piece of paper on its own does nothing.
It only means something if people decide to do what it says

Precisely so for  the Constitution, or any other charter of liberty, are only as enduring as the fixity of their guarantees which depends upon  their upholding.

  70 million Trump voters and QAnon believers think  that piece of paper is useless, because they have been told lies for the last 5 years and believe those lies so strongly that nothing you can say is going' to change their minds.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 08:16:40 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

ysette9

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6415 on: January 06, 2021, 08:19:04 PM »
Anyone else follow Heather Cox Richardson?  She doesn't think Trump will be president for even 2 more days, never mind 2 weeks.
I do but I haven't seen that yet.
It was in her video from today

https://www.facebook.com/heathercoxrichardson/videos/2543350895789478/?vh=e&d=n

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6416 on: January 06, 2021, 08:22:10 PM »
The blue states might genuinely be better off seceding/having a civil war.

You might be overestimating the significance of the "red" gang.

In 2016, Counties that voted for Trump represented 36% of US GDP. Clinton - 64%.
In 2020, Counties that voted for Trump represented just 29% of the economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/11/09/biden-voting-counties-equal-70-of-americas-economy-what-does-this-mean-for-the-nations-political-economic-divide/

It is easy to overestimate just how "significant" the red faction is. They have outsized political power, yes. But they have pretty much lost everything else in the last two decades.

If they had their way, we would all be studying creationism in school and the big government would tell women what they can do with their body or not, and contraceptives would be banned. Thankfully, the federal structure means they can do jacksh*t to affect life of most blue state denizens. And I very much doubt a bunch of welfare loving mooches would suddenly gather enough ability to change the equation.

So no, nothing too radical is required for the Blue gang. Most people are relatively okay, comfortable even, in the communist hellholes - as far as I can tell at least.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6417 on: January 06, 2021, 08:46:52 PM »
You might be overestimating the significance of the "red" gang.

In 2016, Counties that voted for Trump represented 36% of US GDP. Clinton - 64%.
In 2020, Counties that voted for Trump represented just 29% of the economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/11/09/biden-voting-counties-equal-70-of-americas-economy-what-does-this-mean-for-the-nations-political-economic-divide/

It is easy to overestimate just how "significant" the red faction is. They have outsized political power, yes. But they have pretty much lost everything else in the last two decades.

I do wonder if perhaps this shift in economic power from the republican leaning population to the democrat leaning population might be behind a lot of the anger and ability to get into mob mentality?

It is human nature to band together and look elsewhere for blame (people believing "those damn Jewish bankers and jewlers are behind all of our problems" was one of the key reasons Germany was able to justify treating people lower than animals). 

In the same way, a relatively poor but significant (nearly half the population) of the USA sees their way of life being questioned/changed and their standard of living being lowered.  They don't blame the drinking, or spending $10 a day on smokes but rather those damn democrats and their welfare programs.

The danger will be if we spend so much that conditions actually deteriorate to the point where this thought process gains traction.  I would imagine this rioting would have been much much worse if people in general were actually seriously suffering/starving.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6418 on: January 06, 2021, 08:47:58 PM »
The blue states might genuinely be better off seceding/having a civil war.

The Constitution is devoid of any provision that allows for a process whereby a State may secede from the United States of America.

There wasn't any proceedure for countries to leave the EU before Brexit.  A piece of paper isn't going to stop a state from leaving the union.

A piece of paper on its own does nothing.  It only means something if people decide to do what it says.  70 million Trump voters and QAnon believers think  that piece of paper is useless, because they have been told lies for the last 5 years and believe those lies so strongly that nothing you can say is going' to change their minds.

There was actually, in article 50 of the Treaty on European Union. Just no country had used it before the UK.

Which means that despite the criticism from some people and the level of close cooperation between member states (in some cases stronger than in the case of US states) the EU is not and never can be a federation in the classic sense of the word.
Article 50 was a latecomer to the Treaties, there was no procedure at all for the first 50 years of the EEEC/EU.  Which didn't stop Greenland and Algeria both leaving.

dang1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6419 on: January 06, 2021, 08:56:14 PM »
traitors running around with confederate flags in the Capitol today. Clearly, more confederates should have been killed in the Civil War, and Reconstruction should have been stronger and lasted longer- it might have done a better job wiping out treason.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6420 on: January 06, 2021, 09:02:46 PM »
You might be overestimating the significance of the "red" gang.

In 2016, Counties that voted for Trump represented 36% of US GDP. Clinton - 64%.
In 2020, Counties that voted for Trump represented just 29% of the economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/11/09/biden-voting-counties-equal-70-of-americas-economy-what-does-this-mean-for-the-nations-political-economic-divide/

It is easy to overestimate just how "significant" the red faction is. They have outsized political power, yes. But they have pretty much lost everything else in the last two decades.

I do wonder if perhaps this shift in economic power from the republican leaning population to the democrat leaning population might be behind a lot of the anger and ability to get into mob mentality?

It is human nature to band together and look elsewhere for blame (people believing "those damn Jewish bankers and jewlers are behind all of our problems" was one of the key reasons Germany was able to justify treating people lower than animals). 

In the same way, a relatively poor but significant (nearly half the population) of the USA sees their way of life being questioned/changed and their standard of living being lowered.  They don't blame the drinking, or spending $10 a day on smokes but rather those damn democrats and their welfare programs.

The danger will be if we spend so much that conditions actually deteriorate to the point where this thought process gains traction.  I would imagine this rioting would have been much much worse if people in general were actually seriously suffering/starving.

Definitely. There's a lot of resentment around money and higher education and change. Coal miners actually make decent money but the world is changing and is leaving them behind.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6421 on: January 06, 2021, 09:04:37 PM »
traitors running around with confederate flags in the Capitol today. Clearly, more confederates should have been killed in the Civil War, and Reconstruction should have been stronger and lasted longer- it might have done a better job wiping out treason.

Nah, they just watched the news and saw how it seemed to be OK to burn down restaurants and deface public property and decided if it is good for one group, it should be good for others.

Doesn't make it right, but I can see how people could get the idea in their head that they could get away with it.  I guess the lady who died didn't though.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6422 on: January 06, 2021, 09:14:28 PM »
Definitely. There's a lot of resentment around money and higher education and change. Coal miners actually make decent money but the world is changing and is leaving them behind.

Right.   We are building our own house and I now realize how incredibly hard it is.  Even working 7 days a week it is going slooooow and is very tiring.  All of the people I meet in this industry are very republican leaning, even though they are making something like $15 to $20 an hour.  They probably resent and envy the hell out of the software engineers and other high paying occupations that are largely democrat populated.   I always would play down the fact that we were early retired from software so as not to draw their ire.  I would just say something like "we took some time off from work to build a house" and they would respect that.

If the economy ever goes in the shitter for real and for longer than a few months, this is a worrisome group.

dang1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6423 on: January 06, 2021, 09:24:25 PM »
traitors running around with confederate flags in the Capitol today. Clearly, more confederates should have been killed in the Civil War, and Reconstruction should have been stronger and lasted longer- it might have done a better job wiping out treason.

Nah, they just watched the news and saw how it seemed to be OK to burn down restaurants and deface public property and decided if it is good for one group, it should be good for others.

Doesn't make it right, but I can see how people could get the idea in their head that they could get away with it.  I guess the lady who died didn't though.

and also maybe they are thinking that they are mostly white, they would be treated far less harshly by the cops? yup, doesn't make it right one bit

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6424 on: January 06, 2021, 09:30:47 PM »
The problem is that we’ve spent the last 40 years deregulating the economy and dismantling unions, exposing the average worker to the raw market for wages. Then, through deregulation of international trade, we have broadened that labor market so that American workers are competing against labor in lower cost markets worldwide. People who just want to make an honest living for an honest day’s wages don’t have a chance anymore. Trump has simply tapped into their frustration.

As much as people say they want deregulation and free markets, they really don’t. We need to figure out as a country how to resolve these competing forces.

dang1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6425 on: January 06, 2021, 09:39:54 PM »
The problem is that we’ve spent the last 40 years deregulating the economy and dismantling unions, exposing the average worker to the raw market for wages. Then, through deregulation of international trade, we have broadened that labor market so that American workers are competing against labor in lower cost markets worldwide. People who just want to make an honest living for an honest day’s wages don’t have a chance anymore. Trump has simply tapped into their frustration.

As much as people say they want deregulation and free markets, they really don’t. We need to figure out as a country how to resolve these competing forces.
a huge swath of people in the U.S. have been left behind is because our politics written by race, written by regionalism long before Trump, has made us have the weakest welfare state and the weakest worker protections in the world for a rich country. And so, go across the border of Canada, go across the Atlantic to any Western European country, go the other direction to Australia or Singapore or Japan and workers have not been left behind as much.
https://ritholtz.com/2020/11/transcript-adam-posen/

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6426 on: January 06, 2021, 09:42:20 PM »
Yes, and we’re hamstrung from doing anything about it because of an irrational fear of any government assistance as “Socialism” and by focusing on race rather than economics as one of the key sources of division within our country.

Pizzabrewer

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6427 on: January 06, 2021, 09:43:02 PM »
Thankfully today marks the end of Trumpism. It was the last dying gasp of his cult before the whole sordid mess fades (quickly) into history. This catharsis needed to happen and was the inevitable conclusion of the insanity.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6428 on: January 06, 2021, 09:46:59 PM »
Today marks the end of Trump, but not Trumpism.

dang1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6429 on: January 06, 2021, 09:54:36 PM »
Yes, and we’re hamstrung from doing anything about it because of an irrational fear of any government assistance as “Socialism” and by focusing on race rather than economics as one of the key sources of division within our country.
LOL! lordy lord! socialism
"After its 1929 economic crash, capitalism was badly discredited. The unprecedented political power of a surging U.S. left enabled government intervention to redistribute wealth from corporations and the rich to average citizens. Private capitalists and the Republican Party responded with a commitment to undo the New Deal. The end of World War II and FDR’s death in 1945 provided the opportunity to destroy the New Deal coalition.
The strategy hinged on demonizing the coalition’s component groups, above all the communists and socialists. Anti-communism quickly became the strategic battering ram."
https://www.yesmagazine.org/democracy/2020/01/30/socialism-understanding/

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6430 on: January 06, 2021, 10:39:42 PM »
traitors running around with confederate flags in the Capitol today. Clearly, more confederates should have been killed in the Civil War, and Reconstruction should have been stronger and lasted longer- it might have done a better job wiping out treason.

Nah, they just watched the news and saw how it seemed to be OK to burn down restaurants and deface public property and decided if it is good for one group, it should be good for others.

Doesn't make it right, but I can see how people could get the idea in their head that they could get away with it.  I guess the lady who died didn't though.

and also maybe they are thinking that they are mostly white, they would be treated far less harshly by the cops? yup, doesn't make it right one bit

Well poor Elizabeth from Knoxville, TN was maced. Poor lady... ;)

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6431 on: January 07, 2021, 03:58:34 AM »
Yikes. Protestors are rushing past the barriers at the Capitol. Some of the federal office buildings are being evacuated.

Wtf are the troops?


Edit: McConnell finally grew a spine. Or he can read the tea leaves.

Finally a legitimate use for police brutality if I ever saw one.  Release the dogs.  Release the bees.  Release the dogs with bees in their mouths so when they bark they shoot bees at you.
We are in the post 2020 world now it is murder hornets

FAKE BEES!

Reports from Kansas say that protesters have also stormed the Kansas statehouse.

What's the reasoning behind that?

You ask Trump lunatics for REASONING???

What's wrong with your reasoning?

Quote
2) the violence is all antifa anyway.
Ahhh! There! I had the feeling something was missing all the time... now I know what.

Still someone out there who does not know that the US is close to a banana republic?
I mean there at least the rebels go against the president - not being encouraged by him!

habanero

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6432 on: January 07, 2021, 04:13:15 AM »
In hindsight, after watching the live footage on TV here, the most surprising is problaby how little surprised I was yesterday. Not saying I expected to see some dude sitting in Pelosis' chair in her office or anything like that, but I have over the last years learnt that pretty much anything is possible. Also republican politicians contesting and dragging out the confirmation after all the mayhem happened. That's a whole different league of sad, I mean at least those should in theory be responsible adults.

I admit being quite surprised that they actually got into the building (apparantly) so easily, but the rest I guess is just the culimination of these 4 years of seer madness.

Sugaree

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6433 on: January 07, 2021, 04:59:38 AM »
Thankfully today marks the end of Trumpism. It was the last dying gasp of his cult before the whole sordid mess fades (quickly) into history. This catharsis needed to happen and was the inevitable conclusion of the insanity.

I wish I could be so confident.  I'm in deep South MAGAstan and you can already see the doubling down of the rhetoric. 

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6434 on: January 07, 2021, 05:35:04 AM »
Thankfully today marks the end of Trumpism. It was the last dying gasp of his cult before the whole sordid mess fades (quickly) into history. This catharsis needed to happen and was the inevitable conclusion of the insanity.

I wish I could be so confident.  I'm in deep South MAGAstan and you can already see the doubling down of the rhetoric.

If you're measuring influence over people's minds and money raised, right now Trump is the party. 70% of Republicans think the election was rigged. That was entirely his doing.  They gave him over $200 million to put in his pocket to challenge the election for which he spent less than 10% on lawsuits and legally can keep the rest, and they love him for it.  If he continues to raise money successfully after inauguration we'll know whether or not "Trumpism" is still alive.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6435 on: January 07, 2021, 05:35:37 AM »
Definitely. There's a lot of resentment around money and higher education and change. Coal miners actually make decent money but the world is changing and is leaving them behind.

Right.   We are building our own house and I now realize how incredibly hard it is.  Even working 7 days a week it is going slooooow and is very tiring.  All of the people I meet in this industry are very republican leaning, even though they are making something like $15 to $20 an hour.  They probably resent and envy the hell out of the software engineers and other high paying occupations that are largely democrat populated.   I always would play down the fact that we were early retired from software so as not to draw their ire.  I would just say something like "we took some time off from work to build a house" and they would respect that.

If the economy ever goes in the shitter for real and for longer than a few months, this is a worrisome group.

Poverty is sometimes not a choice.

The groups you may have met in the US have no idea what real poverty looks like.

Terrorism is ALWAYS a choice.

Generally, based on the second hand information I have seen, poor people don't become terrorists, they are too busy surviving. Terrorism is mostly a middle/higher income thing, except for some foot soldiers.


Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6436 on: January 07, 2021, 05:47:25 AM »
In hindsight, after watching the live footage on TV here, the most surprising is problaby how little surprised I was yesterday. Not saying I expected to see some dude sitting in Pelosis' chair in her office or anything like that, but I have over the last years learnt that pretty much anything is possible. Also republican politicians contesting and dragging out the confirmation after all the mayhem happened. That's a whole different league of sad, I mean at least those should in theory be responsible adults.

I admit being quite surprised that they actually got into the building (apparantly) so easily, but the rest I guess is just the culimination of these 4 years of seer madness.

They got in because some cops let them in. There is video of them opening the barriers and letting them through.

Well, that, and the ones who bashed windows in and climbed through that way.

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6437 on: January 07, 2021, 05:52:59 AM »
Simon Bruni @SimonBruni

Bet you never imagined that one day you'd be confined to your home during a deadly pandemic watching a bare-chested man with two dead raccoons on his head storm the Capitol.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6438 on: January 07, 2021, 05:58:28 AM »
In hindsight, after watching the live footage on TV here, the most surprising is problaby how little surprised I was yesterday. Not saying I expected to see some dude sitting in Pelosis' chair in her office or anything like that, but I have over the last years learnt that pretty much anything is possible. Also republican politicians contesting and dragging out the confirmation after all the mayhem happened. That's a whole different league of sad, I mean at least those should in theory be responsible adults.

I admit being quite surprised that they actually got into the building (apparantly) so easily, but the rest I guess is just the culimination of these 4 years of seer madness.

They got in because some cops let them in. There is video of them opening the barriers and letting them through.

Well, that, and the ones who bashed windows in and climbed through that way.

A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6439 on: January 07, 2021, 05:58:57 AM »
Simon Bruni @SimonBruni

Bet you never imagined that one day you'd be confined to your home during a deadly pandemic watching a bare-chested man with two dead raccoons on his head storm the Capitol.

The storming of the Capitol by Trumpbots was not at all surprising. The rest of it, yeah.

Also, this clip seems pretty representative of the cult: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CJu-qg3BZXl/?igshid=wonjp6pejhbk

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6440 on: January 07, 2021, 06:00:15 AM »
In hindsight, after watching the live footage on TV here, the most surprising is problaby how little surprised I was yesterday. Not saying I expected to see some dude sitting in Pelosis' chair in her office or anything like that, but I have over the last years learnt that pretty much anything is possible. Also republican politicians contesting and dragging out the confirmation after all the mayhem happened. That's a whole different league of sad, I mean at least those should in theory be responsible adults.

I admit being quite surprised that they actually got into the building (apparantly) so easily, but the rest I guess is just the culimination of these 4 years of seer madness.

They got in because some cops let them in. There is video of them opening the barriers and letting them through.

Well, that, and the ones who bashed windows in and climbed through that way.

A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

It does seem from the video footage that at least some of the police were in on this. Not surprising at all.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6441 on: January 07, 2021, 06:15:52 AM »
In hindsight, after watching the live footage on TV here, the most surprising is problaby how little surprised I was yesterday. Not saying I expected to see some dude sitting in Pelosis' chair in her office or anything like that, but I have over the last years learnt that pretty much anything is possible. Also republican politicians contesting and dragging out the confirmation after all the mayhem happened. That's a whole different league of sad, I mean at least those should in theory be responsible adults.

I admit being quite surprised that they actually got into the building (apparantly) so easily, but the rest I guess is just the culimination of these 4 years of seer madness.

They got in because some cops let them in. There is video of them opening the barriers and letting them through.

Well, that, and the ones who bashed windows in and climbed through that way.

A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

Interesting perspective. Obviously the UK is very different from the US, as neither the police nor the violent mob would have guns, but police training here would say that they did the right thing. Outnumbered and confronted with a few thousand armed, violent lunatics, better to let them in and out without provoking a firefight. Prevent the members of congress and media from being killed in a shooting match. You can look at the footage later and arrest people, you can pick up the US flags that they threw on the floor, you can repair buildings. For that level of insurrection to end peaceably and with only one death is something to be pleased about, IMO.

The real question is why, when it was obvious that this was a possibility, were no security precautions taken. Presumably Trump appointees were the ones in charge of making those decisions. Maybe there's also some doubt as to whether police officers would actually have followed orders to attack a bunch of overweight, middle-aged white people?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 06:21:00 AM by cerat0n1a »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6442 on: January 07, 2021, 06:26:18 AM »
Oh, Rudy. Best stick with Four Seasons Total Landscaping.

Giuliani to Senator: ‘Try to Just Slow it Down’ (The Dispatch)

Quote
Rudy Giuliani, a lawyer and top adviser to President Donald Trump, is calling Republican lawmakers urging them to delay the electoral vote count by at least one day to allow the president and his team to present more evidence of alleged election fraud. Giuliani was making calls this evening, as late as an hour before Congress reconvened, in a desperate attempt to block the final count of Electoral College votes.

At approximately 7 p.m., Giuliani called newly sworn-in Alabama Sen. Tommy Tuberville, a staunch Trump ally, imploring him to stall the process. “I want to discuss with you how they're trying to rush this hearing and how we need you, our Republican friends, to try to just slow it down so we can get these legislatures to get more information to you,” Giuliani said in a voicemail. “And I know they're reconvening at 8 tonight, but it ... the only strategy we can follow is to object to numerous states and raise issues so that we get ourselves into tomorrow—ideally until the end of tomorrow. I know McConnell is doing everything he can to rush it, which is kind of a kick in the head because it's one thing to oppose us, it's another thing not to give us a fair opportunity to contest it.”

Giuliani tells Tuberville that McConnell wants to narrow the objections to just three states and explains that the Trump team wants to object to 10. “So if you could object to every state and, along with a congressman, get a hearing for every state, I know we would delay you a lot, but it would give us the opportunity to get the legislators who are very, very close to pulling their vote, particularly after what McConnell did today.”

The problem for Giuliani? He left his message on the voicemail of another senator, who shared it with The Dispatch.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6443 on: January 07, 2021, 06:32:48 AM »
In hindsight, after watching the live footage on TV here, the most surprising is problaby how little surprised I was yesterday. Not saying I expected to see some dude sitting in Pelosis' chair in her office or anything like that, but I have over the last years learnt that pretty much anything is possible. Also republican politicians contesting and dragging out the confirmation after all the mayhem happened. That's a whole different league of sad, I mean at least those should in theory be responsible adults.

I admit being quite surprised that they actually got into the building (apparantly) so easily, but the rest I guess is just the culimination of these 4 years of seer madness.

They got in because some cops let them in. There is video of them opening the barriers and letting them through.

Well, that, and the ones who bashed windows in and climbed through that way.

A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

Interesting perspective. Obviously the UK is very different from the US, as neither the police nor the violent mob would have guns, but police training here would say that they did the right thing. Outnumbered and confronted with a few thousand armed, violent lunatics, better to let them in and out without provoking a firefight. Prevent the members of congress and media from being killed in a shooting match. You can look at the footage later and arrest people, you can pick up the US flags that they threw on the floor, you can repair buildings. For that level of insurrection to end peaceably and with only one death is something to be pleased about, IMO.

The real question is why, when it was obvious that this was a possibility, were no security precautions taken. Presumably Trump appointees were the ones in charge of making those decisions. Maybe there's also some doubt as to whether police officers would actually have followed orders to attack a bunch of overweight, middle-aged white people?

The threat was that the building was full of a huge portion of the US Government, including the entire House of Representatives, the entire Senate, and the Vice President. The mob could have captured and held hostage or -- I hate to even imagine it -- murdered members of government. The Secret Service did a fantastic job of protecting people, but the police should never have allowed the mob to get into the building. Too much was at stake. In my opinion, this was a situation where deadly force was absolutely called for.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6444 on: January 07, 2021, 06:38:05 AM »
I hope this can serve as a wakeup call to some of these Republican congressman. Ted Cruz isn't stupid, but he supported the charade of objecting to the vote as a political game, knowing that it wouldn't lead anywhere. I wonder what he thinks now that this has put our democracy, not to mention himself and his colleagues, in danger.

He thinks he will be President on 1/20/2025.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6445 on: January 07, 2021, 06:40:14 AM »
Like many of you, I was surprised by how bad it got. I was not surprised at all by the President's actions, as he's always been transparent about who he is and what he believes.

I'm trying to take a very disciplined approach to what I allow myself to share on social media. I'm also letting my wife take the lead in allowing her parents to process this, as I think they recoil from my unctiousness in having been right about Trump. Which I was all along, dammit.

The only thing I'm doing is sharing this Washington Post Story. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/video-timeline-capitol-breach/?itid=hp-top-table-main-0106
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 06:48:58 AM by talltexan »

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6446 on: January 07, 2021, 06:55:14 AM »
Oh, Rudy. Best stick with Four Seasons Total Landscaping.

Giuliani to Senator: ‘Try to Just Slow it Down’ (The Dispatch)

Quote
Rudy Giuliani, a lawyer and top adviser to President Donald Trump, is calling Republican lawmakers urging them to delay the electoral vote count by at least one day to allow the president and his team to present more evidence of alleged election fraud. Giuliani was making calls this evening, as late as an hour before Congress reconvened, in a desperate attempt to block the final count of Electoral College votes.

At approximately 7 p.m., Giuliani called newly sworn-in Alabama Sen. Tommy Tuberville, a staunch Trump ally, imploring him to stall the process. “I want to discuss with you how they're trying to rush this hearing and how we need you, our Republican friends, to try to just slow it down so we can get these legislatures to get more information to you,” Giuliani said in a voicemail. “And I know they're reconvening at 8 tonight, but it ... the only strategy we can follow is to object to numerous states and raise issues so that we get ourselves into tomorrow—ideally until the end of tomorrow. I know McConnell is doing everything he can to rush it, which is kind of a kick in the head because it's one thing to oppose us, it's another thing not to give us a fair opportunity to contest it.”

Giuliani tells Tuberville that McConnell wants to narrow the objections to just three states and explains that the Trump team wants to object to 10. “So if you could object to every state and, along with a congressman, get a hearing for every state, I know we would delay you a lot, but it would give us the opportunity to get the legislators who are very, very close to pulling their vote, particularly after what McConnell did today.”

The problem for Giuliani? He left his message on the voicemail of another senator, who shared it with The Dispatch.

Am I reading the timeline correctly that he's making these calls after the attack? Holy shit, talk about not knowing when to put the pipe down. I think after today, Hannity will be the only one still taking his calls.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6447 on: January 07, 2021, 07:23:09 AM »
Oh, Rudy. Best stick with Four Seasons Total Landscaping.

Giuliani to Senator: ‘Try to Just Slow it Down’ (The Dispatch)

Quote
Rudy Giuliani, a lawyer and top adviser to President Donald Trump, is calling Republican lawmakers urging them to delay the electoral vote count by at least one day to allow the president and his team to present more evidence of alleged election fraud. Giuliani was making calls this evening, as late as an hour before Congress reconvened, in a desperate attempt to block the final count of Electoral College votes.

At approximately 7 p.m., Giuliani called newly sworn-in Alabama Sen. Tommy Tuberville, a staunch Trump ally, imploring him to stall the process. “I want to discuss with you how they're trying to rush this hearing and how we need you, our Republican friends, to try to just slow it down so we can get these legislatures to get more information to you,” Giuliani said in a voicemail. “And I know they're reconvening at 8 tonight, but it ... the only strategy we can follow is to object to numerous states and raise issues so that we get ourselves into tomorrow—ideally until the end of tomorrow. I know McConnell is doing everything he can to rush it, which is kind of a kick in the head because it's one thing to oppose us, it's another thing not to give us a fair opportunity to contest it.”

Giuliani tells Tuberville that McConnell wants to narrow the objections to just three states and explains that the Trump team wants to object to 10. “So if you could object to every state and, along with a congressman, get a hearing for every state, I know we would delay you a lot, but it would give us the opportunity to get the legislators who are very, very close to pulling their vote, particularly after what McConnell did today.”

The problem for Giuliani? He left his message on the voicemail of another senator, who shared it with The Dispatch.

Am I reading the timeline correctly that he's making these calls after the attack? Holy shit, talk about not knowing when to put the pipe down. I think after today, Hannity will be the only one still taking his calls.

Yes, you are correct.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6448 on: January 07, 2021, 07:36:10 AM »
Would have been a scary sight in DC.

Surprised the police didn't shoot all the protestors. For all of the times that police in the states have been trigger happy, they seemed to use admirable restraint today.

Why are you surprised? These rioters were white.

I'm sure this was the 1st order reason.

The 2nd order reason was probably because the Trumpers were in charge of the police response.

But I think there's a decent chance that it just happened to be the correct strategic response (for non-Trumpers, and therefore non-traitors). So the armed insurrectionists stormed the Capitol and searched the for Congresspeople to murder and waived their confederate flags around and accomplished... nothing. Except showing the entire world exactly WHAT they are, in high definition video. On the other hand if you mow them down you just make martyrs of them to the rest of the cultists.

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6449 on: January 07, 2021, 07:42:25 AM »
In hindsight, after watching the live footage on TV here, the most surprising is problaby how little surprised I was yesterday. Not saying I expected to see some dude sitting in Pelosis' chair in her office or anything like that, but I have over the last years learnt that pretty much anything is possible. Also republican politicians contesting and dragging out the confirmation after all the mayhem happened. That's a whole different league of sad, I mean at least those should in theory be responsible adults.

I admit being quite surprised that they actually got into the building (apparantly) so easily, but the rest I guess is just the culimination of these 4 years of seer madness.

They got in because some cops let them in. There is video of them opening the barriers and letting them through.

Well, that, and the ones who bashed windows in and climbed through that way.

A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

Interesting perspective. Obviously the UK is very different from the US, as neither the police nor the violent mob would have guns, but police training here would say that they did the right thing. Outnumbered and confronted with a few thousand armed, violent lunatics, better to let them in and out without provoking a firefight. Prevent the members of congress and media from being killed in a shooting match. You can look at the footage later and arrest people, you can pick up the US flags that they threw on the floor, you can repair buildings. For that level of insurrection to end peaceably and with only one death is something to be pleased about, IMO.

The real question is why, when it was obvious that this was a possibility, were no security precautions taken. Presumably Trump appointees were the ones in charge of making those decisions. Maybe there's also some doubt as to whether police officers would actually have followed orders to attack a bunch of overweight, middle-aged white people?

The threat was that the building was full of a huge portion of the US Government, including the entire House of Representatives, the entire Senate, and the Vice President. The mob could have captured and held hostage or -- I hate to even imagine it -- murdered members of government. The Secret Service did a fantastic job of protecting people, but the police should never have allowed the mob to get into the building. Too much was at stake. In my opinion, this was a situation where deadly force was absolutely called for.

I'm not sure if there was any violence involved, but if there was any legitimate threat of violence or impending violence to congressmen then deadly force should have been used.

Not shooting them will just embolden the insurrectionists.