Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 500959 times)

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6250 on: January 03, 2021, 10:56:34 AM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/amy-klobuchar-rips-ted-cruz-led-gang-of-senators-threatening-to-reject-biden-victory-on-jan-6-can-you-please-get-a-grip/ar-BB1cqa1O

"This sentence says everything you need to know:  Not one of the Republican officeholders objecting to Biden's victory have objected to their own wins on the same day on the same ballots using the same election systems.”

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6251 on: January 03, 2021, 12:03:47 PM »
Presented without comment: Pro-Trump lawyer Lin Wood insists he is not insane after tweeting that Mike Pence should face execution by firing squad (Business Insider)

There's a reason his former law partners dissolved the partnership. Besides claiming that Roberts is a pedophile, he also claimed that Roberts was involved in Scalia's death. Oh, and Epstein is alive and has flipped.

He's a loon.

This is a commonly held belief among a big subset of Trump supporters, apparently.

For people who support a sex maniac, they sure are obsessed with their enemies' sex lives...

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6252 on: January 03, 2021, 12:12:21 PM »
‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’: In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor (WaPo) (Paywall, but I think one article per month is free and the recording excerpts are worth hearing.)

Quote
President Trump urged fellow Republican Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, to “find” enough votes to overturn his defeat in an extraordinary one-hour phone call Saturday that election experts said raised legal questions.

The Washington Post obtained a recording of the conversation in which Trump alternately berated Raffensperger, tried to flatter him, begged him to act and threatened him with vague criminal consequences if the secretary of state refused to pursue his false claims, at one point warning that Raffensperger was taking “a big risk.”
---

“The people of Georgia are angry, the people in the country are angry,” he said. “And there’s nothing wrong with saying, you know, um, that you’ve recalculated.”

Raffensperger responded: “Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is, the data you have is wrong.”

At another point, Trump said: “So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state.”

The rambling and at times incoherent conversation offered a remarkable glimpse of how consumed and desperate the president remains about his loss, unwilling or unable to let the matter go and still believing he can reverse the results in enough battleground states to remain in office.

“There’s no way I lost Georgia,” Trump said, a phrase he repeated again and again on the call. “There’s no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes.”
---

During their conversation, Trump issued a vague threat to both Raffensperger and Ryan Germany, the secretary of state’s legal counsel, suggesting that if they don’t find that thousands of ballots in Fulton County have been illegally destroyed to block investigators — an allegation for which there is no evidence — they would be subject to criminal liability.

“That’s a criminal offense,” he said. “And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.”

Trump also told Raffensperger that failure to act by Tuesday would jeopardize the political fortunes of David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, Georgia’s two Republican senators whose fate in that day’s runoff elections will determine control of the U.S. Senate.

Trump said he plans to talk about the fraud on Monday, when he is scheduled to lead an election eve rally in Dalton, Ga. — a message that could further muddle the efforts of Republicans to get their voters out.

“You have a big election coming up and because of what you’ve done to the president — you know, the people of Georgia know that this was a scam,” Trump said. “Because of what you’ve done to the president, a lot of people aren’t going out to vote, and a lot of Republicans are going to vote negative, because they hate what you did to the president. Okay? They hate it. And they’re going to vote. And you would be respected, really respected, if this can be straightened out before the election.”
---

“So tell me, Brad, what are we going to do? We won the election, and it’s not fair to take it away from us like this,” Trump said. “And it’s going to be very costly in many ways. And I think you have to say that you’re going to reexamine it, and you can reexamine it, but reexamine it with people that want to find answers, not people who don’t want to find answers.”

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6253 on: January 03, 2021, 12:57:24 PM »
‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’: In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor (WaPo) (Paywall, but I think one article per month is free and the recording excerpts are worth hearing.)

Quote
President Trump urged fellow Republican Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, to “find” enough votes to overturn his defeat in an extraordinary one-hour phone call Saturday that election experts said raised legal questions.

The Washington Post obtained a recording of the conversation in which Trump alternately berated Raffensperger, tried to flatter him, begged him to act and threatened him with vague criminal consequences if the secretary of state refused to pursue his false claims, at one point warning that Raffensperger was taking “a big risk.”
---

“The people of Georgia are angry, the people in the country are angry,” he said. “And there’s nothing wrong with saying, you know, um, that you’ve recalculated.”

Raffensperger responded: “Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is, the data you have is wrong.”

At another point, Trump said: “So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state.”

The rambling and at times incoherent conversation offered a remarkable glimpse of how consumed and desperate the president remains about his loss, unwilling or unable to let the matter go and still believing he can reverse the results in enough battleground states to remain in office.

“There’s no way I lost Georgia,” Trump said, a phrase he repeated again and again on the call. “There’s no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes.”
---

During their conversation, Trump issued a vague threat to both Raffensperger and Ryan Germany, the secretary of state’s legal counsel, suggesting that if they don’t find that thousands of ballots in Fulton County have been illegally destroyed to block investigators — an allegation for which there is no evidence — they would be subject to criminal liability.

“That’s a criminal offense,” he said. “And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.”

Trump also told Raffensperger that failure to act by Tuesday would jeopardize the political fortunes of David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, Georgia’s two Republican senators whose fate in that day’s runoff elections will determine control of the U.S. Senate.

Trump said he plans to talk about the fraud on Monday, when he is scheduled to lead an election eve rally in Dalton, Ga. — a message that could further muddle the efforts of Republicans to get their voters out.

“You have a big election coming up and because of what you’ve done to the president — you know, the people of Georgia know that this was a scam,” Trump said. “Because of what you’ve done to the president, a lot of people aren’t going out to vote, and a lot of Republicans are going to vote negative, because they hate what you did to the president. Okay? They hate it. And they’re going to vote. And you would be respected, really respected, if this can be straightened out before the election.”
---

“So tell me, Brad, what are we going to do? We won the election, and it’s not fair to take it away from us like this,” Trump said. “And it’s going to be very costly in many ways. And I think you have to say that you’re going to reexamine it, and you can reexamine it, but reexamine it with people that want to find answers, not people who don’t want to find answers.”

He’s using big words. His idiot persona is another scam.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6254 on: January 03, 2021, 02:34:52 PM »
Is it too late to impeach him again? First President to be impeached twice.

Trump's ego could file for statehood so he may actually believe that he won. I'm unsure how any Trump supporter could be ambivalent about this call, though. Deluded or power hungry?


Edit:
Listening to the audio, we can glimpse his bullying style of negotiation. It's not convincing to me but I already think he's a dope.

1) Does his strong will and forceful words really make people believe what he's claiming? As in, he can really bully bankers into loaning him more money even after the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th bankruptcy?

2) Or does it give the other side an excuse? He hints at money and power and they go along. It's another form of negotiating but it's not really the bullying that does it.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 02:47:50 PM by bacchi »

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6255 on: January 03, 2021, 02:58:22 PM »
I was going to post the phone call (really more of a monologue on Trump's part than a conversation). I think the governor is showing remarkable restraint in the face of all the lies, bullying and BS flying through the air. Has no one in Trump's inner circle let him know he LOST or is it still a circle jerk in there?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 03:03:12 PM by partgypsy »

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6256 on: January 03, 2021, 03:21:14 PM »
Edit:
Listening to the audio, we can glimpse his bullying style of negotiation. It's not convincing to me but I already think he's a dope.

1) Does his strong will and forceful words really make people believe what he's claiming? As in, he can really bully bankers into loaning him more money even after the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th bankruptcy?

2) Or does it give the other side an excuse? He hints at money and power and they go along. It's another form of negotiating but it's not really the bullying that does it.

If you read up the NYT investigations on his income and tax returns, you will find that he has been a very successful TV personality, but a failed businessman/entrepreneur:

1. He earned > $440M from Apprentice. This is massive and he obviously deserves credit for this.

2. However, he had previously received control of his father's entire business estates and managed to mostly run it to the ground. I am not quite sure anyone knows the exact figures except Trump's accountants - however, adding up the various transfers uncovered by NYT would likely add up to > $1B in total transfer from Fred to his children. He would be worth a lot more had he just invested his inheritance in the market. More than that, however, he managed to mostly run his father's business to the ground.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-wealth-fred-trump.html
Quote
In 2003, once again in financial trouble, Donald Trump began engineering the sale of the empire Fred Trump had hoped would never leave the family. The sale, completed in 2004, brought him his biggest payday ever from his father: His cut was $177.3 million, or $236.2 million in today’s dollars. But as it turned out, banks at the time valued the empire at hundreds of millions more than the sale price. Donald Trump, master dealmaker, had sold low.

So he is both a master entertainer and reality TV personality, and a poor businessman. His "negotiating style", bluffing and blustering causes poor results in business, but obviously got him the $400M+ in earnings from Apprentice and the US presidency.

Donald is basically the second generation of the Japanese proverb "rice paddies to rice paddies in three generations".

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6257 on: January 03, 2021, 05:25:59 PM »
Edit:
Listening to the audio, we can glimpse his bullying style of negotiation. It's not convincing to me but I already think he's a dope.

1) Does his strong will and forceful words really make people believe what he's claiming? As in, he can really bully bankers into loaning him more money even after the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th bankruptcy?

2) Or does it give the other side an excuse? He hints at money and power and they go along. It's another form of negotiating but it's not really the bullying that does it.

If you read up the NYT investigations on his income and tax returns, you will find that he has been a very successful TV personality, but a failed businessman/entrepreneur:

1. He earned > $440M from Apprentice. This is massive and he obviously deserves credit for this.

2. However, he had previously received control of his father's entire business estates and managed to mostly run it to the ground. I am not quite sure anyone knows the exact figures except Trump's accountants - however, adding up the various transfers uncovered by NYT would likely add up to > $1B in total transfer from Fred to his children. He would be worth a lot more had he just invested his inheritance in the market. More than that, however, he managed to mostly run his father's business to the ground.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-wealth-fred-trump.html
Quote
In 2003, once again in financial trouble, Donald Trump began engineering the sale of the empire Fred Trump had hoped would never leave the family. The sale, completed in 2004, brought him his biggest payday ever from his father: His cut was $177.3 million, or $236.2 million in today’s dollars. But as it turned out, banks at the time valued the empire at hundreds of millions more than the sale price. Donald Trump, master dealmaker, had sold low.

So he is both a master entertainer and reality TV personality, and a poor businessman. His "negotiating style", bluffing and blustering causes poor results in business, but obviously got him the $400M+ in earnings from Apprentice and the US presidency.

Donald is basically the second generation of the Japanese proverb "rice paddies to rice paddies in three generations".
Could he have been a great “success” without first having a half a billion to lose in real estate and casinos? That show was built on the [false] premise that DJT was a wildly successful, self made billionaire.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6258 on: January 03, 2021, 05:37:13 PM »
I hope what we are witnessing is the Republicans playing their own supporters to maximize political contributions. Also, it is easier to be a GOP critic than a Dem leader.

The lion's share of the donations since the election have gone straight to Trump.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6259 on: January 03, 2021, 08:27:04 PM »
So he is both a master entertainer and reality TV personality, and a poor businessman. His "negotiating style", bluffing and blustering causes poor results in business, but obviously got him the $400M+ in earnings from Apprentice and the US presidency.

Donald is basically the second generation of the Japanese proverb "rice paddies to rice paddies in three generations".
Could he have been a great “success” without first having a half a billion to lose in real estate and casinos? That show was built on the [false] premise that DJT was a wildly successful, self made billionaire.

Probably not in the exact same manner, no!

But that doesn't quite matter - does it?

He has a great talent for BSing. He generally is not capable of telling the truth or of lying, both of which require acknowledging the existence of "objective truth" and caring about what that truth is for a given topic on which he is to lie or be truthful. He has no such care for the direction or even existence of the said "truth". So what he does can't really be called "lying", it is rather BSing.

Well, many people BS. But very few, short of religious prophets, can do it at such a grand scale as The Donald. He could extract hundreds of millions of $$ from the Apprentice by doing it. He could even become the American president by doing so. A few centuries earlier, and he would have been deemed a prophet and a religion would likely have formed around him - such is the quality of his BS.

Tangentially relevant to this topic, have you read this book: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691122946/on-bullshit? It was a NYT bestseller at one point of time. I once picked it up from an airport bookstall and found it fascinating.

« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 09:21:11 PM by ctuser1 »

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6260 on: January 03, 2021, 08:50:50 PM »
Former Defense Secretaries, including Cheney, signed an op-ed in the WaPo:

Quote from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/10-former-defense-secretaries-military-peaceful-transfer-of-power/2021/01/03/2a23d52e-4c4d-11eb-a9f4-0e668b9772ba_story.html
Acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller and his subordinates — political appointees, officers and civil servants — are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly. They must also refrain from any political actions that undermine the results of the election or hinder the success of the new team.

We call upon them, in the strongest terms, to do as so many generations of Americans have done before them.


A little unnerving that this is needed but here we are.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6261 on: January 04, 2021, 12:10:41 AM »
Looks like he's going for drastic measures: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-transcript-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/2768e0cc-4ddd-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html

It's amazing how his projecting always ends up applying to himself.

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partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6263 on: January 04, 2021, 05:08:07 AM »
Former Defense Secretaries, including Cheney, signed an op-ed in the WaPo:

Quote from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/10-former-defense-secretaries-military-peaceful-transfer-of-power/2021/01/03/2a23d52e-4c4d-11eb-a9f4-0e668b9772ba_story.html
Acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller and his subordinates — political appointees, officers and civil servants — are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly. They must also refrain from any political actions that undermine the results of the election or hinder the success of the new team.

We call upon them, in the strongest terms, to do as so many generations of Americans have done before them.


A little unnerving that this is needed but here we are.
it is! It means these high up level people think, there is a chance the US will not have a peaceful, democratically elected transfer of power.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6264 on: January 04, 2021, 07:38:35 AM »
Looks like he's going for drastic measures: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-transcript-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/2768e0cc-4ddd-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html

It's amazing how his projecting always ends up applying to himself.

If he were candidate Trump instead of President Trump he would have racked up about 20 felony counts of election tampering by now.

Omy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6265 on: January 04, 2021, 08:56:43 AM »
Former Defense Secretaries, including Cheney, signed an op-ed in the WaPo:

Quote from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/10-former-defense-secretaries-military-peaceful-transfer-of-power/2021/01/03/2a23d52e-4c4d-11eb-a9f4-0e668b9772ba_story.html
Acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller and his subordinates — political appointees, officers and civil servants — are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly. They must also refrain from any political actions that undermine the results of the election or hinder the success of the new team.

We call upon them, in the strongest terms, to do as so many generations of Americans have done before them.


A little unnerving that this is needed but here we are.
it is! It means these high up level people think, there is a chance the US will not have a peaceful, democratically elected transfer of power.
The op-ed was probably inspired by similar "perfect calls" to "his" generals.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6266 on: January 04, 2021, 09:14:27 AM »
Democrats ask FBI Director Wray to open criminal probe into Trump after leaked phone call (NBC News)

Quote
A pair of House Democrats are asking FBI Director Christopher Wray to open a criminal probe into President Donald Trump after a leaked phone call showed him pleading with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to overturn his state's election.
 
"As members of Congress and former prosecutors, we believe Donald Trump engaged in solicitation of, or conspiracy to commit, a number of election crimes," Reps. Ted Lieu, D-Calif., and Kathleen Rice, D-N.Y., wrote in a letter to Wray on Monday. "We ask you to open an immediate criminal investigation into the president."

We'd never get to an impeachment trial in the Senate, but there's no reason why the House couldn't vote to impeach a second time in the next 2 weeks. Approval of the articles of impeachment would only require a simple majority in the House. I fully support such an approach. He wants to be the biggest, the most. Let's make him the most impeached president in history.

Quote
But the recording of his conversation with Raffensperger has led to a more severe response from Trump's Democratic opponents. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., said Sunday that the president's conduct was "impeachable," while Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said it "merits nothing less than a criminal investigation."

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6267 on: January 04, 2021, 10:49:04 AM »
Democrats ask FBI Director Wray to open criminal probe into Trump after leaked phone call (NBC News)

Quote
A pair of House Democrats are asking FBI Director Christopher Wray to open a criminal probe into President Donald Trump after a leaked phone call showed him pleading with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to overturn his state's election.
 
"As members of Congress and former prosecutors, we believe Donald Trump engaged in solicitation of, or conspiracy to commit, a number of election crimes," Reps. Ted Lieu, D-Calif., and Kathleen Rice, D-N.Y., wrote in a letter to Wray on Monday. "We ask you to open an immediate criminal investigation into the president."

We'd never get to an impeachment trial in the Senate, but there's no reason why the House couldn't vote to impeach a second time in the next 2 weeks. Approval of the articles of impeachment would only require a simple majority in the House. I fully support such an approach. He wants to be the biggest, the most. Let's make him the most impeached president in history.

Quote
But the recording of his conversation with Raffensperger has led to a more severe response from Trump's Democratic opponents. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., said Sunday that the president's conduct was "impeachable," while Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said it "merits nothing less than a criminal investigation."


In April 1970 House minority leader Gerald Ford urged the impeachment of Justice Douglas.

Ford declared  “An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.”

Democrats, who hold a majority in the House of Representatives, have power  to impeach Trump again without any agreement from their Republican colleagues.

In an extraordinary, expedited, emergency session that sidesteps traditional impeachment procedures, which are not constitutionally  commanded, the Democrats could draft a single, simple, article of impeachment and within the next 24 hours impeach Trump for importuning Georgia's secretary of state "to find 11,780 votes."

The object of impeachment is not necessarily conviction and removal from high office.  Impeachment alone is an historic,  indelible stamp of gravest disapproval on the high official's record so it doesn't matter if there's insufficient time for the Senate to try another impeachment of Trump.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 02:05:16 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

marty998

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6268 on: January 05, 2021, 03:22:08 AM »
Democrats ask FBI Director Wray to open criminal probe into Trump after leaked phone call (NBC News)

Quote
A pair of House Democrats are asking FBI Director Christopher Wray to open a criminal probe into President Donald Trump after a leaked phone call showed him pleading with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to overturn his state's election.
 
"As members of Congress and former prosecutors, we believe Donald Trump engaged in solicitation of, or conspiracy to commit, a number of election crimes," Reps. Ted Lieu, D-Calif., and Kathleen Rice, D-N.Y., wrote in a letter to Wray on Monday. "We ask you to open an immediate criminal investigation into the president."

We'd never get to an impeachment trial in the Senate, but there's no reason why the House couldn't vote to impeach a second time in the next 2 weeks. Approval of the articles of impeachment would only require a simple majority in the House. I fully support such an approach. He wants to be the biggest, the most. Let's make him the most impeached president in history.

Quote
But the recording of his conversation with Raffensperger has led to a more severe response from Trump's Democratic opponents. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., said Sunday that the president's conduct was "impeachable," while Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said it "merits nothing less than a criminal investigation."


In April 1970 House minority leader Gerald Ford urged the impeachment of Justice Douglas.

Ford declared  “An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.”

Democrats, who hold a majority in the House of Representatives, have power  to impeach Trump again without any agreement from their Republican colleagues.

In an extraordinary, expedited, emergency session that sidesteps traditional impeachment procedures, which are not constitutionally  commanded, the Democrats could draft a single, simple, article of impeachment and within the next 24 hours impeach Trump for importuning Georgia's secretary of state "to find 11,780 votes."

The object of impeachment is not necessarily conviction and removal from high office.  Impeachment alone is an historic,  indelible stamp of gravest disapproval on the high official's record so it doesn't matter if there's insufficient time for the Senate to try another impeachment of Trump.


The problem with this is that it gives the asshole another opportunity to hold up a newspaper with the “Acquitted” headline on it.

Better to deny him that publicity. If you’re going to impeach, make damn sure there actually will be follow on consequences for the bastard.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6269 on: January 05, 2021, 07:41:16 AM »
The 'power' of impeachment without control of the senate has proven to be just a mild public shaming.  As we've now seen, if the person you're impeaching (and the party that supports him) is shameless impeachment is about as useful and effective as wagging your finger at an axe murderer.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6270 on: January 05, 2021, 08:09:13 AM »
The 'power' of impeachment without control of the senate has proven to be just a mild public shaming.  As we've now seen, if the person you're impeaching (and the party that supports him) is shameless impeachment is about as useful and effective as wagging your finger at an axe murderer.

His narcissism has been proven right in one regard. As a candidate he made the quip that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in NYC in broad daylight and get away with it. He's been attempting a coup for the last two months and the Republican members of Congress coming to his defense has only increased with every act of election tampering, this phone call to Georgia included.

the_fixer

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Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6271 on: January 05, 2021, 09:03:42 AM »
Sorry, I guess this is old news from June that I had not seen.


Is this the first time someone has attempted to issue an international arrest warrant for the President of the United States?

Iran has issued an arrest warrant for President Trump and 35 other people it says were involved in a drone strike that killed a top Iranian general in Baghdad this year and has asked for international help in detaining them, according to Iranian news reports.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/29/world/middleeast/iran-trump-arrest-warrant-interpol.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 09:58:01 AM by the_fixer »

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6272 on: January 05, 2021, 09:35:10 AM »
Is this the first time someone has attempted to issue an international arrest warrant for the President of the United States?

Surely Iraq issued a warrant for George H. W. after the 1990-91 Gulf War?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6273 on: January 05, 2021, 09:41:51 AM »
This whole situation is so embarrassing. Trump didn’t just lose. He was basically blown out in this election. And now he’s crying over and over and threatening everybody because he can’t face the reality that he’s a loser. And his followers are also losers and they don’t like being reminded of it. It’s really sad.

rab-bit

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6274 on: January 05, 2021, 09:57:37 AM »
He just keeps repeating that he got "over 70 million votes". Yeah, but:
a) The popular vote doesn't matter
b) Even if it did, your opponent got more that 80 million votes.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6275 on: January 05, 2021, 10:02:07 AM »
Is this the first time someone has attempted to issue an international arrest warrant for the President of the United States?

Surely Iraq issued a warrant for George H. W. after the 1990-91 Gulf War?

It wouldn't matter.  The US has never accepted any responsibility for it's many illegal actions on the international stage.  The CIA acted as an international terrorist group for more than half a century, there's the actions of servicemen in Vietnam or the SOP of rape/torture/murder in Iraq (and later in Guantanamo bay) . . . or the full US support of pedophiles in Afghanistan (and punishment of servicemen who complained about the child rape).  More recently there has been the illegal drone bombings of civilians all over the world.  The list is just endless.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6276 on: January 05, 2021, 10:05:16 AM »
He just keeps repeating that he got "over 70 million votes". Yeah, but:
a) The popular vote doesn't matter
b) Even if it did, your opponent got more that 80 million votes.
I can almost, with a sideways squint, see Trump's point. His whole strategy for reelection was "I will get out all these votes from people who never normally vote and it will be enough for me to get reelected without bothering about independents and people who switch between Republican and Democrat".  The talking heads have been saying for the last four years that it was doomed to failure, but it fact it worked pretty well: Trump got more votes than any previous Presidential candidate in history - the only problem was that Biden got even more votes than Trump.  Any other Democratic candidate and any less a determined effort to get out the vote by Democrats and Trump's strategy would have been a winner.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6277 on: January 05, 2021, 10:06:39 AM »
Is this the first time someone has attempted to issue an international arrest warrant for the President of the United States?

Surely Iraq issued a warrant for George H. W. after the 1990-91 Gulf War?

It wouldn't matter.  The US has never accepted any responsibility for it's many illegal actions on the international stage.  The CIA acted as an international terrorist group for more than half a century, there's the actions of servicemen in Vietnam or the SOP of rape/torture/murder in Iraq (and later in Guantanamo bay) . . . or the full US support of pedophiles in Afghanistan (and punishment of servicemen who complained about the child rape).  More recently there has been the illegal drone bombings of civilians all over the world.  The list is just endless.
Support for the IRA too.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6278 on: January 05, 2021, 10:20:39 AM »
This whole situation is so embarrassing. Trump didn’t just lose. He was basically blown out in this election. And now he’s crying over and over and threatening everybody because he can’t face the reality that he’s a loser. And his followers are also losers and they don’t like being reminded of it. It’s really sad.

I was discussing this with friends yesterday - if there was one thing I would have liked to have seen, it would be for Biden to have had another 0.4% of the total votes in any of the following - AZ, GA, WI.  That would have meant he won not just a slim plurality of votes, but a definitive majority.  It also would have made Biden's vote lead >50k votes in each of those states - which would have been much harder for detractors to say it was a 'statistical draw' or other such nonsense.

That said, the popular vote was absolutely historic (+4.4%, and an overall majority at 51.3% of all cotes), and the EC victory of 306 is convincing (i.e. Trump would need to overturn at least three states).

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6279 on: January 05, 2021, 10:40:38 AM »
The 'power' of impeachment without control of the senate has proven to be just a mild public shaming.  As we've now seen, if the person you're impeaching (and the party that supports him) is shameless impeachment is about as useful and effective as wagging your finger at an axe murderer.

The House's exercise of its impeachment power is highly political.

The Senate's sole power to try all impeachments does not mean that it HAS to do so.

Even if the Senate  directly informs the House that the Senate will not try or will try but lacks the votes to convict, in every  case the House ought to proceed with impeachment if it concludes it is warranted.

Impeachment alone registers grave disapprobation.

An untried impeachment  is not the equivalent of  an  acquittal.

 The infamy of impeachment's "I"  will always be  an indelible  mark in  the history  of the impeached high official regardless of the Senate's refusal to try them.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 01:43:53 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6280 on: January 05, 2021, 10:51:29 AM »
This whole situation is so embarrassing. Trump didn’t just lose. He was basically blown out in this election. And now he’s crying over and over and threatening everybody because he can’t face the reality that he’s a loser. And his followers are also losers and they don’t like being reminded of it. It’s really sad.

I was discussing this with friends yesterday - if there was one thing I would have liked to have seen, it would be for Biden to have had another 0.4% of the total votes in any of the following - AZ, GA, WI.  That would have meant he won not just a slim plurality of votes, but a definitive majority.  It also would have made Biden's vote lead >50k votes in each of those states - which would have been much harder for detractors to say it was a 'statistical draw' or other such nonsense.

That said, the popular vote was absolutely historic (+4.4%, and an overall majority at 51.3% of all cotes), and the EC victory of 306 is convincing (i.e. Trump would need to overturn at least three states).

Even that increase in the margin wouldn't have shut him up. Biden won here in Michigan by 154K votes, a nearly 3% margin. I've lost count of how many lawsuits his crackpot attorneys have filed to have our election results invalidated. His supporters here and elsewhere are still squawking about election fraud and invalid votes. A 10% margin wouldn't make a difference. He's screaming because he won Michigan (and the other states in question) 4 years ago and can't stomach the thought of losing. Ergo, it must be fraud.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6281 on: January 05, 2021, 11:08:12 AM »
This whole situation is so embarrassing. Trump didn’t just lose. He was basically blown out in this election. And now he’s crying over and over and threatening everybody because he can’t face the reality that he’s a loser. And his followers are also losers and they don’t like being reminded of it. It’s really sad.

I was discussing this with friends yesterday - if there was one thing I would have liked to have seen, it would be for Biden to have had another 0.4% of the total votes in any of the following - AZ, GA, WI.  That would have meant he won not just a slim plurality of votes, but a definitive majority.  It also would have made Biden's vote lead >50k votes in each of those states - which would have been much harder for detractors to say it was a 'statistical draw' or other such nonsense.

That said, the popular vote was absolutely historic (+4.4%, and an overall majority at 51.3% of all cotes), and the EC victory of 306 is convincing (i.e. Trump would need to overturn at least three states).

Even that increase in the margin wouldn't have shut him up. Biden won here in Michigan by 154K votes, a nearly 3% margin. I've lost count of how many lawsuits his crackpot attorneys have filed to have our election results invalidated. His supporters here and elsewhere are still squawking about election fraud and invalid votes. A 10% margin wouldn't make a difference. He's screaming because he won Michigan (and the other states in question) 4 years ago and can't stomach the thought of losing. Ergo, it must be fraud.

Nothing, I suspect, would shut Trump up.  But it's easy to convince people it was a "statistical tie" (a phrase I hate in this context) if the results are within, say, 0.3% (e.g. AZ, GA). It also fuels the sore-loser talk when the winner fails to break 50% (WI).

Bottom line - I wish the margins in those key states were higher.  DJT would still belly-ache, but it would seem even more ridiculous to everyone but the extremists.   

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6282 on: January 05, 2021, 11:10:55 AM »
They're fucking delusional.  There is quite literally no threshold where they would back down and accept defeat.  Even without the extra 0.4% margin or whatever it's absolutely unquestionable that Trump lost.  It could have been 150M Biden to Trump 0 and they wouldn't concede. They don't live in reality.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6283 on: January 05, 2021, 11:16:41 AM »
This whole situation is so embarrassing. Trump didn’t just lose. He was basically blown out in this election. And now he’s crying over and over and threatening everybody because he can’t face the reality that he’s a loser. And his followers are also losers and they don’t like being reminded of it. It’s really sad.

I was discussing this with friends yesterday - if there was one thing I would have liked to have seen, it would be for Biden to have had another 0.4% of the total votes in any of the following - AZ, GA, WI.  That would have meant he won not just a slim plurality of votes, but a definitive majority.  It also would have made Biden's vote lead >50k votes in each of those states - which would have been much harder for detractors to say it was a 'statistical draw' or other such nonsense.

That said, the popular vote was absolutely historic (+4.4%, and an overall majority at 51.3% of all cotes), and the EC victory of 306 is convincing (i.e. Trump would need to overturn at least three states).

Even that increase in the margin wouldn't have shut him up. Biden won here in Michigan by 154K votes, a nearly 3% margin. I've lost count of how many lawsuits his crackpot attorneys have filed to have our election results invalidated. His supporters here and elsewhere are still squawking about election fraud and invalid votes. A 10% margin wouldn't make a difference. He's screaming because he won Michigan (and the other states in question) 4 years ago and can't stomach the thought of losing. Ergo, it must be fraud.

Nothing, I suspect, would shut Trump up.  But it's easy to convince people it was a "statistical tie" (a phrase I hate in this context) if the results are within, say, 0.3% (e.g. AZ, GA). It also fuels the sore-loser talk when the winner fails to break 50% (WI).

Bottom line - I wish the margins in those key states were higher.  DJT would still belly-ache, but it would seem even more ridiculous to everyone but the extremists.

Nah, there is no limit.  We are far, far beyond the threshold of having reasonable doubt.  It's like people that don't believe in evolution.  Your argument is basically "I just wish we could find a couple more pieces of evidence of evolution, because if this mountain of evidence was just a few feet higher no reasonable person could remain unconvinced".   The reality is that anyone that can be convinced by evidence already believes in evolution, and slightly more, or even significantly more evidence will not change their mind.  If it could, they'd already believe.


rab-bit

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6285 on: January 05, 2021, 11:28:15 AM »
He just keeps repeating that he got "over 70 million votes". Yeah, but:
a) The popular vote doesn't matter
b) Even if it did, your opponent got more that 80 million votes.
I can almost, with a sideways squint, see Trump's point. His whole strategy for reelection was "I will get out all these votes from people who never normally vote and it will be enough for me to get reelected without bothering about independents and people who switch between Republican and Democrat".  The talking heads have been saying for the last four years that it was doomed to failure, but it fact it worked pretty well: Trump got more votes than any previous Presidential candidate in history - the only problem was that Biden got even more votes than Trump.  Any other Democratic candidate and any less a determined effort to get out the vote by Democrats and Trump's strategy would have been a winner.

Trump got a lot of people who wouldn't normally vote to turn out to vote for him, but IMO he also got a lot of people who wouldn't normally vote to turn out to vote for Biden. And in the end that was his undoing.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 12:22:37 PM by rab-bit »

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6286 on: January 05, 2021, 11:30:08 AM »
This whole situation is so embarrassing. Trump didn’t just lose. He was basically blown out in this election. And now he’s crying over and over and threatening everybody because he can’t face the reality that he’s a loser. And his followers are also losers and they don’t like being reminded of it. It’s really sad.

I was discussing this with friends yesterday - if there was one thing I would have liked to have seen, it would be for Biden to have had another 0.4% of the total votes in any of the following - AZ, GA, WI.  That would have meant he won not just a slim plurality of votes, but a definitive majority.  It also would have made Biden's vote lead >50k votes in each of those states - which would have been much harder for detractors to say it was a 'statistical draw' or other such nonsense.

That said, the popular vote was absolutely historic (+4.4%, and an overall majority at 51.3% of all cotes), and the EC victory of 306 is convincing (i.e. Trump would need to overturn at least three states).

Even that increase in the margin wouldn't have shut him up. Biden won here in Michigan by 154K votes, a nearly 3% margin. I've lost count of how many lawsuits his crackpot attorneys have filed to have our election results invalidated. His supporters here and elsewhere are still squawking about election fraud and invalid votes. A 10% margin wouldn't make a difference. He's screaming because he won Michigan (and the other states in question) 4 years ago and can't stomach the thought of losing. Ergo, it must be fraud.

Nothing, I suspect, would shut Trump up.  But it's easy to convince people it was a "statistical tie" (a phrase I hate in this context) if the results are within, say, 0.3% (e.g. AZ, GA). It also fuels the sore-loser talk when the winner fails to break 50% (WI).

Bottom line - I wish the margins in those key states were higher.  DJT would still belly-ache, but it would seem even more ridiculous to everyone but the extremists.

It is already clear to everyone but the extremists!

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6287 on: January 05, 2021, 11:36:47 AM »
He just keeps repeating that he got "over 70 million votes". Yeah, but:
a) The popular vote doesn't matter
b) Even if it did, your opponent got more that 80 million votes.
I can almost, with a sideways squint, see Trump's point. His whole strategy for reelection was "I will get out all these votes from people who never normally vote and it will be enough for me to get reelected without bothering about independents and people who switch between Republican and Democrat".  The talking heads have been saying for the last four years that it was doomed to failure, but it fact it worked pretty well: Trump got more votes than any previous Presidential candidate in history - the only problem was that Biden got even more votes than Trump.  Any other Democratic candidate and any less a determined effort to get out the vote by Democrats and Trump's strategy would have been a winner.

Trump got a lot of people who wouldn't normally vote to come out and vote for him, but IMO he also got a lot of people who wouldn't normally vote to come out and vote for Biden. And in the end that was his undoing.

Millions of people who don't typically vote came out to vote for both candidates and it's resulted in a whole new portion of the electorate who have no idea how politics work. I've been noticing this when I casually look at social media. New voters don't understand why there were things in the Stimulus Bill that had nothing to do with the stimulus, while veteran voters know it's because congress members needed to do that to gather enough votes to pass both houses of the legislature. New voters also don't understand that the bill only gave a stimulus of $600 because it couldn't pass the Senate with a stimulus of $2000, so they are freaking out on social media about it without understanding that it wasn't a choice between $600 and $2000. It was a choice between $600 and $0.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6288 on: January 05, 2021, 11:38:59 AM »
He just keeps repeating that he got "over 70 million votes". Yeah, but:
a) The popular vote doesn't matter
b) Even if it did, your opponent got more that 80 million votes.
I can almost, with a sideways squint, see Trump's point. His whole strategy for reelection was "I will get out all these votes from people who never normally vote and it will be enough for me to get reelected without bothering about independents and people who switch between Republican and Democrat".  The talking heads have been saying for the last four years that it was doomed to failure, but it fact it worked pretty well: Trump got more votes than any previous Presidential candidate in history - the only problem was that Biden got even more votes than Trump.  Any other Democratic candidate and any less a determined effort to get out the vote by Democrats and Trump's strategy would have been a winner.

Trump got a lot of people who wouldn't normally vote to come out and vote for him, but IMO he also got a lot of people who wouldn't normally vote to come out and vote for Biden. And in the end that was his undoing.

Millions of people who don't typically vote came out to vote for both candidates and it's resulted in a whole new portion of the electorate who have no idea how politics work. I've been noticing this when I casually look at social media. New voters don't understand why there were things in the Stimulus Bill that had nothing to do with the stimulus, while veteran voters know it's because congress members needed to do that to gather enough votes to pass both houses of the legislature. New voters also don't understand that the bill only gave a stimulus of $600 because it couldn't pass the Senate with a stimulus of $2000, so they are freaking out on social media about it without understanding that it wasn't a choice between $600 and $2000. It was a choice between $600 and $0.

I love the "why are we sending stimulus money to foreign countries?!" uh, because it isn't actually a stimulus bill, it is a normal spending bill with some stimulus provisions thrown in.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6289 on: January 05, 2021, 11:40:49 AM »
New voters don't understand why there were things in the Stimulus Bill that had nothing to do with the stimulus, while veteran voters know it's because congress members needed to do that to gather enough votes to pass both houses of the legislature.

It was not the Stimulus Bill, it was the Stimulus and Omnibus Spending Bill. Aka the entire federal government's 2021 budget. One bill. That's why there was so much "unrelated stuff in it".

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6290 on: January 05, 2021, 11:50:02 AM »
New voters don't understand why there were things in the Stimulus Bill that had nothing to do with the stimulus, while veteran voters know it's because congress members needed to do that to gather enough votes to pass both houses of the legislature.

It was not the Stimulus Bill, it was the Stimulus and Omnibus Spending Bill. Aka the entire federal government's 2021 budget. One bill. That's why there was so much "unrelated stuff in it".

"But it has a stimulus in it, it's a Stimulus Bill. You are supposed to have other bills for other things. Durr durr durr..." Completely clueless about how politics work.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6291 on: January 05, 2021, 12:37:20 PM »
Obligatory David Cross stand up bit about regretting voting for Trump...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1wkqZIJOAQ

"This last omnibus spending bill is where I draw the line!"

jim555

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6292 on: January 05, 2021, 12:56:42 PM »
Trump warned by Scottish leader to stay away amid reports he might travel to his golf resort to skip inauguration

😂
Trump has a Scottish mother so if he wanted to he could register to become a British citizen.  If we could just convince him to leave for Scotland permanently.  Sorry Scotland!

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6293 on: January 05, 2021, 01:07:44 PM »
Have any of you tracked what is going down in PA right now?
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2021/01/05/Pa-Senate-refuses-to-seat-McKeesport-s-Brewster-in-contentious-swearing-in-ceremony/stories/202101050125

Let's hope this is not a preamble to Jan 6 in DC. Regardless, it is some top-shelf scary bullshit. What happens when a legislative body simply stops following their constitution?

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6294 on: January 05, 2021, 01:19:09 PM »
Have any of you tracked what is going down in PA right now?
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2021/01/05/Pa-Senate-refuses-to-seat-McKeesport-s-Brewster-in-contentious-swearing-in-ceremony/stories/202101050125

Let's hope this is not a preamble to Jan 6 in DC. Regardless, it is some top-shelf scary bullshit. What happens when a legislative body simply stops following their constitution?

I never thought something like this could happen in the United States. I thought it was only for the third world banana republics. Wow, was I wrong. What a sad time this is for America.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6295 on: January 05, 2021, 01:24:01 PM »
Have any of you tracked what is going down in PA right now?
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2021/01/05/Pa-Senate-refuses-to-seat-McKeesport-s-Brewster-in-contentious-swearing-in-ceremony/stories/202101050125

Let's hope this is not a preamble to Jan 6 in DC. Regardless, it is some top-shelf scary bullshit. What happens when a legislative body simply stops following their constitution?

A judge brings the hammer down?

I wonder if we'll see an attempt to recognize the parking-lot appointed "electors" as a second slate.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6296 on: January 05, 2021, 01:26:01 PM »
Have any of you tracked what is going down in PA right now?
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2021/01/05/Pa-Senate-refuses-to-seat-McKeesport-s-Brewster-in-contentious-swearing-in-ceremony/stories/202101050125

Let's hope this is not a preamble to Jan 6 in DC. Regardless, it is some top-shelf scary bullshit. What happens when a legislative body simply stops following their constitution?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say we should just wait, and not over-react to stories like this while emotions are running high.

I remember all the way back in 2018 when there was talk of the House just refusing to seat the Republican from NC-9 who got caught committing election fraud (which would have been within the House's power). It didn't actually come to that because the guy eventually conceded after his son testified against him and exposed several of his lies, but if that was actually how it played out then I could see Republicans (incorrectly) taking that very similarly to how Democrats are taking this.

Let the court finish rejecting the fraudulent case, and then bring out the pitchforks if they don't seat him.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6297 on: January 05, 2021, 01:30:07 PM »
Have any of you tracked what is going down in PA right now?
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2021/01/05/Pa-Senate-refuses-to-seat-McKeesport-s-Brewster-in-contentious-swearing-in-ceremony/stories/202101050125

Let's hope this is not a preamble to Jan 6 in DC. Regardless, it is some top-shelf scary bullshit. What happens when a legislative body simply stops following their constitution?

I never thought something like this could happen in the United States. I thought it was only for the third world banana republics. Wow, was I wrong. What a sad time this is for America.

Troof.

I always wonder how many of these people are true believers and how many are going for a power grab.

Sugaree

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6298 on: January 05, 2021, 01:37:54 PM »
Have any of you tracked what is going down in PA right now?
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2021/01/05/Pa-Senate-refuses-to-seat-McKeesport-s-Brewster-in-contentious-swearing-in-ceremony/stories/202101050125

Let's hope this is not a preamble to Jan 6 in DC. Regardless, it is some top-shelf scary bullshit. What happens when a legislative body simply stops following their constitution?

A judge brings the hammer down?

I wonder if we'll see an attempt to recognize the parking-lot appointed "electors" as a second slate.

Have you seen John Fetterman?  I'm expecting him to just eat the senate republicans in PA. 

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6299 on: January 05, 2021, 05:14:17 PM »
Trump warned by Scottish leader to stay away amid reports he might travel to his golf resort to skip inauguration

😂
Trump has a Scottish mother so if he wanted to he could register to become a British citizen.  If we could just convince him to leave for Scotland permanently.  Sorry Scotland!

Keep yer f*ckin' Trump where he belongs, laddie.